I recently made the jump to 5.1.1 (XXU2BOGG) to be able to use the new Camera2 API and play around with RAW files (.dng’s here).
Thing is, when I shoot pics with a Camera2-enabled app (Camera FV-5 or Snap Camera HDR (which can even toggle API modes), the JPG’s it makes (besides the DNG’s) are unsharp. It’s very visible compared to when you shoot the same thing with a non-Camera2 API camera app. I wonder if it’s the same for others.
Here’s how you can check.
Shoot a pic with a Camera2 API enabled app such as Camera FV-5, with RAW/DNG support enabled.
Shoot a pic with a non-Camera2 API enabled app, such as Google Camera.
Compare the resulting JPG files (not the .dng)
For me, the latter is way sharper.
My theories of the cause:
Bad Camera2 API implementation by Samsung.
XXU2BOGG firmware is in XtreStoLite ROM (2.2.1 RC3), that makes my S6 say it's an S6 Edge. Maybe a driver issue. It's properly recognised as an SM-G920F, so I guess this is not a possible issue.
Complication of 5.0.2 ENG bootloader with 5.1.1 ROM. It's caused the fingerprint sensor to be broken, maybe it also breaks camera stuff.
jelbo said:
I recently made the jump to 5.1.1 (XXU2BOGG) to be able to use the new Camera2 API and play around with RAW files (.dng’s here).
Thing is, when I shoot pics with a Camera2-enabled app (Camera FV-5 or Snap Camera HDR (which can even toggle API modes), the JPG’s it makes (besides the DNG’s) are unsharp. It’s very visible compared to when you shoot the same thing with a non-Camera2 API camera app. I wonder if it’s the same for others.
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Click to collapse
It's normal but I know some guys have been asked why in that S6 Camera thread in the general section. I've played around with Snap and FV5 after up to 5.1.1 too. When you enabled API2, their JPG/PNG output will set the sharpen level to zero and indeed it is the original quality from your tiny sensor(we finally know how crap of 1/2.6" without post-processing).
I use Photoshop CS6 plus Adobe DNG Converter 9.1(I think Lightroom plus Adobe DNG Converter 9.1 does the same thing), they can read out the S6 RAW correctly though S6 isn't on the supported device list. After I turned the Sharpening amount to around 100 and denoise set to like 30, the photo quality is very similar to stock S6 camera now with good sharpness and no noise.
The stock camera(or other 3rd apps) default does a heavy job on sharp/denoise but if you ask for API2 and decided to shoot RAW, it's your turn now to do the adjustment by yourself.
TheEndHK said:
It's normal but I know some guys have been asked why in that S6 Camera thread in the general section. I've played around with Snap and FV5 after up to 5.1.1 too. When you enabled API2, their JPG/PNG output will set the sharpen level to zero and indeed it is the original quality from your tiny sensor(we finally know how crap of 1/2.6" without post-processing).
I use Photoshop CS6 plus Adobe DNG Converter 9.1(I think Lightroom plus Adobe DNG Converter 9.1 does the same thing), they can read out the S6 RAW correctly though S6 isn't on the supported device list. After I turned the Sharpening amount to around 100 and denoise set to like 30, the photo quality is very similar to stock S6 camera now with good sharpness and no noise.
The stock camera(or other 3rd apps) default does a heavy job on sharp/denoise but if you ask for API2 and decided to shoot RAW, it's your turn now to do the adjustment by yourself.
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Click to collapse
This makes sense, thank you, very good reply. So that basically means you have to choose between RAW and JPG, because the JPG won't be processed properly and thus be worse than the non-Camera2 API JPG.
Do you also see constant over-exposure 'flashes' when the light meter does it's thing? It happens with Snap Camera HDR and Open Camera (free Camera2 API app (that doesn't save photos when in that mode here)) as well.
jelbo said:
This makes sense, thank you, very good reply. So that basically means you have to choose between RAW and JPG, because the JPG won't be processed properly and thus be worse than the non-Camera2 API JPG.
Do you also see constant over-exposure 'flashes' when the light meter does it's thing? It happens with Snap Camera HDR and Open Camera (free Camera2 API app (that doesn't save photos when in that mode here)) as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I'm sure snap/fv5 will ignore the JPG/PNG sharpen filter when you take RAW and it is very weird. Indeed, we should report it to the developer, I think it is a bug. Because of that you have to choose between RAW and JPG/PNG now, not the combination of both.
I didn't test to disable API2 in snap/fv5 because if I don't shoot RAW, I will just use the stock camera. Just import the RAW in CS6/LR + DNG converter, set the sharpen amount to 80 ~ 110 and denosie 30 ~ 60, the result is pretty much same with stock camera now. So, no worry your API2 is normal.
Can you explain it a bit more about over-exposure flashes?
I'll explain the over-exposure later, but here are some samples I just worked on that illustrate your first point. All pics are untouched, losslessly saved crops and zoomed to 200%.
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
^Google Camera (non-API2, default settings, lossless JPG crop (saved as .png)
^Camera FV-5 .JPG (non-API2, default settings, lossless JPG crop (saved as .png)
^Camera FV-5 .DNG (API2, default settings, Adobe Camera Raw 8.4 from Photoshop CS6 13.0.1 *no processing* crop (saved as .png)
^Camera FV-5 .DNG (API2, default settings, Adobe Camera Raw 8.4 from Photoshop CS6 13.0.1 *processed* crop (saved as .png)
jelbo said:
I'll explain the over-exposure later, but here are some samples I just worked on that illustrate your first point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, RAW isn't easy to deal with, every photo does need different set of parameters and very time consuming to find out best values. In some manner, RAW is only for real photo taker and professional. Stock camera or google camera on the other hands they do a smart job to optimize all photo automatically.
In your example, I don't see it over-exposure. It is just how the stock/google cam tweaked that for you. You can tune the exposure or any color in the DNG converter to achieve the same result but again it is a time wasting work.
And I would like to mention the DNG convertor default set at 25 sharpen(default 0 denoise) so it actually got some kinds of processing, so the ^Camera FV-5 .DNG is much sharper than ^Camera FV-5 .JPG. It looks like you are total new to RAW, I beat you understand how hard of it and time to lesson. Welcome to the Hell. lol
TheEndHK said:
Yes, I'm sure snap/fv5 will ignore the JPG/PNG sharpen filter when you take RAW and it is very weird. Indeed, we should report it to the developer, I think it is a bug. Because of that you have to choose between RAW and JPG/PNG now, not the combination of both.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I'll contact their support again (but so far they haven't responded to previous e-mails). Made a post on Snap's Google+ page and updated my post in the Snap Camera HDR topic too (because Snap's JPG next to a DNG is the same unprocessed, fuzzy one).
I didn't test to disable API2 in snap/fv5 because if I don't shoot RAW, I will just use the stock camera. Just import the RAW in CS6/LR + DNG converter, set the sharpen amount to 80 ~ 110 and denosie 30 ~ 60, the result is pretty much same with stock camera now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just tested FV-5 with DNG capture set to Disabled, but the JPG's are still unprocessed (fuzzy).
So, no worry your API2 is normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm convinced of the same now. It's just the Camera2 API apps doing a bad job. Maybe because of API limitations, or its a Samsung issue, who knows.
Can you explain it a bit more about over-exposure flashes?
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Click to collapse
Yeah. FV-5 doesn't have it, but Snap Camera HDR and Open Camera have it when using Camera2 API mode. In Auto Focus mode, all is well. But as soon as I manually focus by touching on the screen, you see it overexposing a few seconds after the focus was grabbed (Snap Camera HDR) or on the exact moment of manually focusing by touching (Open Camera). The photo taken is not overexposed.
Curious about three things:
1) is this S6 specific?
2) is this a XXU2BOGG bug? /edit: could be, but it's the same on XXU2COH2.
3) what would Manual Camera do? (Tempted to spend yet another few dollars to test that one out) /edit: bought and refunded: it doesn't 'see' the Camera2 API and it won't shoot in 16:9, just 4:3. o_o
TheEndHK said:
Yes, RAW isn't easy to deal with, every photo does need different set of parameters and very time consuming to find out best values. In some manner, RAW is only for real photo taker and professional. Stock camera or google camera on the other hands they do a smart job to optimize all photo automatically.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I would like to mention the DNG convertor default set at 25 sharpen(default 0 denoise) so it actually got some kinds of processing, so the ^Camera FV-5 .DNG is much sharper than ^Camera FV-5 .JPG. It looks like you are total new to RAW, I beat you understand how hard of it and time to lesson. Welcome to the Hell. lol[/QUOTE]
I'm not new to RAW, I shoot RAW on my dSLR (Nikon had .NEF's) and I love getting the most out of my photos. It can be very complex yeah, and I agree that every photo ideally needs his own post processing settings.
Nice that you know quite a bit about it as well and have done tests. Let's hope we'll find the ultimate culprit and things will be fixed.
jelbo said:
Just tested FV-5 with DNG capture set to Disabled, but the JPG's are still unprocessed (fuzzy).
Yeah. FV-5 doesn't have it, but Snap Camera HDR and Open Camera have it when using Camera2 API mode. In Auto Focus mode, all is well. But as soon as I manually focus by touching on the screen, you see it overexposing a few seconds after the focus was grabbed (Snap Camera HDR) or on the exact moment of manually focusing by touching (Open Camera). The photo taken is not overexposed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In FV5 you can't real disable API2(I can't find the option) but just tested to disable API2 in SnapCamera and after that the JPG sharpness comes back. Yup, it will over exposure a sec when you touch the manual focus bcoz it will bump up the iso to real high(you can notice the real-time iso info getting high) but it is just a minor bug.
It is interesting to see what will happen on Note5/S6e+, they comes with the ability to shoot RAW+JPG in stock camera.
TheEndHK said:
In FV5 you can't real disable API2(I can't find the option) but just tested to disable API2 in SnapCamera and after that the JPG sharpness comes back. Yup, it will over exposure a sec when you touch the manual focus bcoz it will bump up the iso to real high(you can notice the real-time iso info getting high) but it is just a minor bug.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, but as I got more or less the same in Open Camera, to me it feels like it's not app related but driver/device's API implementation.
It is interesting to see what will happen on Note5/S6e+, they comes with the ability to shoot RAW+JPG in stock camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a Note5 ROM port in the Android Dev subforum
jelbo said:
Yeah, but as I got more or less the same in Open Camera, to me it feels like it's not app related but driver/device's API implementation.
There's a Note5 ROM port in the Android Dev subforum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that but I'm on dual sims and not supported, so a no go to me and I'm still with my warranty didn't trip the knox yet because my camera got little weird sound, guess time to travel Samsung service center later.
Camera2 api app's always freeze
Hello, I had not seen any complaint at all, so i really wonder if no one cares or it really only happens on my phone. The problem is no matter which app I use, the screen always freezes on the s6 after taking about 8 to 9 raw pictures in a row. Does anyone experience it as well? Thanks.
I have had similar issues. Raw images are big. I think it's bogging down while writing to the SD card. Probably, it's the reason Samsung hasn't integrated raw into the stock camera.
Sheldor1967 said:
I have had similar issues. Raw images are big. I think it's bogging down while writing to the SD card. Probably, it's the reason Samsung hasn't integrated raw into the stock camera.
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Click to collapse
Ok... So it's not just me... Thank you for confirming.
I know the note 5 can handle the raw pictures well. Even the LG G4 has much slower internal storage. I do not own a G4 but I'm assuming the G4's stock camera is handling it well too. I believe it's bad implementation by Samsung, as it happens to all camera apps. And it's always the 9th raw picture screwing it. If Samsung is not trying to make this raw feature exclusive on the note 5, I'm sure they know how to make it work flawlessly on the s6 but they just don't want to.
In fairness, it really is a niche feature. Probably an extremely small percentage of S6 owners even know what raw is and an even smaller percentage would ever really use it. They probably figured they were fine not prepping for it. Now the external sd card and removal battery...
Sheldor1967 said:
In fairness, it really is a niche feature. Probably an extremely small percentage of S6 owners even know what raw is and an even smaller percentage would ever really use it. They probably figured they were fine not prepping for it. Now the external sd card and removal battery...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True it's a niche feature. But I would think that smaller percentage of s6 users who want to shoot raw is actually more people than the total number of note 5, edge+ and G4 users who can currently shoot stable raw. Given that the hardware of the s6 and note 5 should be very similar. It should not really be a hard implementation from Samsung. I will probably go back to nexus when the next one is out and never return to Samsung again.
fay99 said:
True it's a niche feature. But I would think that smaller percentage of s6 users who want to shoot raw is actually more people than the total number of note 5, edge+ and G4 users who can currently shoot stable raw. Given that the hardware of the s6 and note 5 should be very similar. It should not really be a hard implementation from Samsung. I will probably go back to nexus when the next one is out and never return to Samsung again.
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Click to collapse
Well, I guess if ya feel that strongly about it, it's the thing to do! Personally, I have never used a camera on a phone that performed this well, so I have no need to mess with raw and don't miss it. I was curious mostly, but Raw files are a lot of work to edit, so I won't bother.
Same here with Snap Camera or FV-5. Shooting passed 5 times may starting to have problem(need to kill the app to make it works again) while sometimes no problem up to 7 ~ 9 RAW. Not sure bad API2 implementation or 3rd apps not working good. Wish Samsung gives us stock RAW later or someone port it from Note5/S6e+.
I don't know what be can use at 5.1.1 (But I know that's can be use at Camera2 API at 10s - 1/8000s) but I will be does known' that's 6.0.1 as Marshmallow it's will be have in "OOTB" (On-Out-The-Box): Full-Pro Mode (as Shutter Speed/RAW - Pretty same options as 5.1.1 will have of Note 5/S6 Edge Plus Models)
GSMArena's review just came out and they state that there is no option to capture raw files with this device.
That's sound very odd. Can anyone confirm this?
Thanks.
It's not true there is a option for pro mode which captures in raw
Their article said two things :
There's a Pro mode for those who want more control over the camera. It comes with adjustment sliders for white balance, exposure compensation, ISO, shutter speed, and focus. RAW capture is available as well, although HTC claims the majority of consumers don't use this feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, in camera PRO mode, RAW mode is here
Then,
We can almost overlook the absence of RAW, but it is signifficantly harder to swallow the fac that HTC's camera app does not offer the ability to change the frame rates that video is recorded in
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Click to collapse
So this part is only about taking a video in RAW mode. This mode principally exists fir DSLR cameras, and if I don't mae mistake, never have been introduced on smartphones
The only regret I have with the camera PRO mode is that the U11 only takes RAW+JPG photo. You can't take RAW pictures only so .... we have to take care at the storage
Fre$h said:
Their article said two things :
So, in camera PRO mode, RAW mode is here
Then, So this part is only about taking a video in RAW mode. This mode principally exists fir DSLR cameras, and if I don't mae mistake, never have been introduced on smartphones
The only regret I have with the camera PRO mode is that the U11 only takes RAW+JPG photo. You can't take RAW pictures only so .... we have to take care at the storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the clarification! Glad that raw capture is available on this phone.
Hello,
been using the P20 for a few days now and it's great but I'm not sure how to get the best out of the camera. Been having it with AI on and 20Mp but a lot of the pictures seem overexposed.
If anyone could enlighten me that'd be great.
Thanks
Bobbite said:
Hello,
been using the P20 for a few days now and it's great but I'm not sure how to get the best out of the camera. Been having it with AI on and 20Mp but a lot of the pictures seem overexposed.
If anyone could enlighten me that'd be great.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello!
I disabled the AI, it oversaturates colors and the contrast and sharpness are too high for my taste. Shooting in photo mode without the AI gets me pretty good results, I then edit my shots in Lightroom CC, it's a free app, try it if you haven't already If you have the feeling that your shots are overexposed you can always focus on a bright part of your scene and the phone will adjust the exposure accordingly.
For best results you want to be shooting in pro mode and better yet enable the RAW format. It's more work to edit those RAW photos but you do get the best quality!
Have fun with your phone
I also turned off the AI. If you want to have more control you can use RAW
Thanks for the replies! I'll try out RAW mode and Lightroom CC and disable the AI. I guess there would be a great change of quality if I went from 20 MP 4:3 to 18:9 as it's only 8MP?
I did some photos today and i must say that there are few iritating things in our phones software.
One of the is HDR mode wich is hidden ant we cant usue it in auto mode
And are they responsive on the Mi note 10?
Lightroom? Any other? What about Snapseed ,does it keep the 27MPix? Thanks!
jonoro11 said:
And are they responsive on the Mi note 10?
Lightroom? Any other? What about Snapseed ,does it keep the 27MPix? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in snapseed, just make sure you choose "Do not resize" option in export setting.
otonieru said:
in snapseed, just make sure you choose "Do not resize" option in export setting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, that isn't the case for a full 108MP image. 27MP seems to be fine, just a little smaller sometimes, but I think the phone hardware isn't powerful enough to process a 108MP image without reducing the resolution and quality.
Quick update: Photoshop Express retained almost all of the resolution and detail of a 108MP photo. The resolution went from 9024x12032 to 9000x12000. That's a negligible difference.
I prefer Snapseed as an editor (I love the masking and curves), but maybe it's time for me to learn more about the Photoshop Express app.
Thanks!
I researched and Snapseed apparently supports a maximum resolution of 20MPix. So I guess good for slightly cropped images to save original detail
https://support.google.com/snapseed/answer/6202870?hl=en
PS Express is 30,000x30,000 max:
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/kb/maximum-image-size-limits-photoshop.html
Update: I tried editing a 27.1 MPix sample (I haven't got this phone yet) on Snapseed, PS Express and Lightroom, and LR kept the original 27.1 MPx while both Snapseed and PSX resized to 25 MPx. VSCO also keeps the 27.1 MPx
Phantom_DJ said:
Unfortunately, that isn't the case for a full 108MP image. 27MP seems to be fine, just a little smaller sometimes, but I think the phone hardware isn't powerful enough to process a 108MP image without reducing the resolution and quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, even whatsapp sometimes crashing when i tried to send image from this phone. 108MP is indeed way too big for most of current app design