Database Info

Official statement from Google regarding the Cyanogen controvery

I have no idea where this needs to be posted. There are a number of different threads regarding this topic, and I know at least one of them are locked. So mods, feel free to move, delete or merge this as you see fit.
Google, via the Android Developers Blog, issued a statement a short while back. Here it is ...
A Note on Google Apps for Android
Posted by Dan Morrill on 25 September 2009 at 2:31 PM
Lately we've been busy bees in Mountain View, as you can see from the recent release of Android 1.6 to the open-source tree, not to mention some devices we're working on with partners that we think you'll really like. Of course, the community isn't sitting around either, and we've been seeing some really cool and impressive things, such as the custom Android builds that are popular with many enthusiasts. Recently there's been some discussion about an exchange we had with the developer of one of those builds, and I've noticed some confusion around what is and isn't part of Android's open source code. I want to take a few moments to clear up some of those misconceptions, and explain how Google's apps for Android fit in.
Everyone knows that mobile is a big deal, but for a long time it was hard to be a mobile app developer. Competing interests and the slow pace of platform innovation made it hard to create innovative apps. For our part, Google offers a lot of services — such as Google Search, Google Maps, and so on — and we found delivering those services to users' phones to be a very frustrating experience. But we also found that we weren't alone, so we formed the Open Handset Alliance, a group of like-minded partners, and created Android to be the platform that we all wished we had. To encourage broad adoption, we arranged for Android to be open-source. Google also created and operates Android Market as a service for developers to distribute their apps to Android users. In other words, we created Android because the industry needed an injection of openness. Today, we're thrilled to see all the enthusiasm that developers, users, and others in the mobile industry have shown toward Android.
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion around Google's apps for Android. We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need. I look forward to seeing what comes next!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html

Yep, it's over.

We're still asking for community access to these applications that are almost essential to the current Android experience. I really doubt it's hurting their bottom line substantially enough to justify the killing of their distribution.
In other words, Mr. Morrill's post was pretty much a sugarcoated attempt to gain some of the PR they lost.
We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A "novel" use from a developer who "sees a need" is quite a way to describe a substantially improved version of your OS.

So what is the conclusion? A lot of the things could be replaced, but as mentioned before, the sync tools and so forth are tricky to get around. What is the next step from here?

cyanogen said:
Yep, it's over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? What would be wrong with releasing the ROM without the google apps, but have a script or something that runs on first boot that installs the missing apps?

cyanogen said:
Yep, it's over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So no more ROMs? Or no more ROMs with close-source apps?

AquaVita said:
How so? What would be wrong with releasing the ROM without the google apps, but have a script or something that runs on first boot that installs the missing apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's still illegal. A clever trick to walk around the legal fine print. But in essence, it's illegal...

AquaVita said:
How so? What would be wrong with releasing the ROM without the google apps, but have a script or something that runs on first boot that installs the missing apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without the basic function to sign into the device using your Google credentials, the ROM is useless. You can't just grab them from another build (as far as I know) because of the way they are tied in at compiling to the framework. So you would have to pull the ROM, grab the proprietary pieces from somewhere else, and compile the source yourself.
Right?
To touch on this in another way, what would it take for Cyanogen to become a licensed distributor of Google's Apps for Android? If there are really 30,000 users, couldn't legal fees be gathered from them? And, couldn't the business license be set up as a Not-For-Profit? Like the Association of Cyanogen Followers? If it were, wouldn't the required fees to license the distribution rights of the software be tax-free and operating expenses for the association? Meaning, any costs for running the business could be taken out of membership dues and donations? With the rest being tax write-offs?
Just a thought, as I would love to see this made legit, 4.0.4 is great, but I don't want this to stop here.... selfish I know, but it's the truth.

AquaVita said:
How so? What would be wrong with releasing the ROM without the google apps, but have a script or something that runs on first boot that installs the missing apps?
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Click to collapse
I guees thats no way. What if you have a wipe? No APNs or anything else? You cant dowmload "Market" als a single-app directly from google (as i know).

daveid said:
Without the basic function to sign into the device using your Google credentials, the ROM is useless. You can't just grab them from another build (as far as I know) because of the way they are tied in at compiling to the framework. So you would have to pull the ROM, grab the proprietary pieces from somewhere else, and compile the source yourself.
Right?
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Click to collapse
Then what the hell is google talking about "encouraging other ROM releases"? If that isn't possible without some pieces of Google software, then is it literally impossible to develop a custom ROM for android?
Thoughts, Cyanogen?

As soon as my contract is I am Too! I can predict a mass exit from android and google!

daveid said:
Without the basic function to sign into the device using your Google credentials, the ROM is useless. You can't just grab them from another build (as far as I know) because of the way they are tied in at compiling to the framework. So you would have to pull the ROM, grab the proprietary pieces from somewhere else, and compile the source yourself.
Right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this true? If its proprietary how did CY compile them in the first place? In order to compile don't you need access to the source?

So just come up with replacements for those apps that are closed source and not available on the market...
Devs WILL find a way... I guarantee you
But yeah, Google SUCKS on this...They could have just given him limited licensing...

Without a doubt the most foolish decision I've seen Google make in terms of Android so far. This puts a major damper on a community that was helping make Android better in very real ways.
The only explanation I can come up with is that the closed apps use 3rd party licensed code that Google can't redistribute. Otherwise this is just completely boneheaded.

Google said:
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
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Click to collapse
They claim these apps (YouTube, Gmail, etc) are Googles way to benefiting from Android, but they are not distributed with all android phones? I understand that companies license these applications from Google, but how does it hurt them if they are installed on a device that would already have them?
Then they say "We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market", yet this entire thing came about because the Android Market is being distributed? How can any device get these if the market is one thing that can not be distributed?
I paid for the ADP1, which came with Gmail, YouTube and the other applications. The ADP1 feature was that I could flash any ROM I wanted to on the device, but now they are telling me that I can't put one on there if it contains their applications that my device had in the first place.
Hello Google, welcome to the the Dark side, so much for "Don't be evil"
I will help with anything I can on a project to replace the Google Products.

AquaVita said:
How so? What would be wrong with releasing the ROM without the google apps, but have a script or something that runs on first boot that installs the missing apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya i was thinking the same .i mean if not ,how do we get gmail ,youtube,ect?do we have to download from market ? some are not in market like youtube.i use gmail all the time .

Do the current Roms have to pulled?

That shiny device with an Apple on it is looking mighty delicious

CyanogenMod officially done now:
http://twitter.com/cyanogen
"Sorry everyone, CyanogenMod in it's current state is done. I am violating Google's license by redistributing their applications."

dwang said:
Is this true? If its proprietary how did CY compile them in the first place? In order to compile don't you need access to the source?
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Click to collapse
I had assumed that they were "reverse-engineered" using something like baksmali, to gain access to the source.... I could be wrong.

Cyanogen shut down by Google

I cant believe this. Cyanogen just twittered this:
Sorry everyone, CyanogenMod in it's current state is done. I am violating Google's license by redistributing their applications.
More at: http://twitter.com/cyanogen
(Mods I know it should belong in General but the developer thread should know about it then the other ones. Forgive me)

You are taking it all wrong. He hasn't been shut down, wont be shut down, etc. Read the original statement. As long as you any apps that arent part of the source code repository you are not violating anything as far as google is concerned.
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion around Google's apps for Android. We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need. I look forward to seeing what comes next!
So lets please stop being chicken little and get on with the dev work. Not including certain apps is not going to make or break any rom as each user should be able to find the apps on their own.
The sky is not falling although my home did get flooded in atlanta last week.

Johnny Blaze said:
You are taking it all wrong. He hasn't been shut down, wont be shut down, etc. Read the original statement. As long as you any apps that arent part of the source code repository you are not violating anything as far as google is concerned.
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion around Google's apps for Android. We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need. I look forward to seeing what comes next!
So lets please stop being chicken little and get on with the dev work. Not including certain apps is not going to make or break any rom as each user should be able to find the apps on their own.
The sky is not falling although my home did get flooded in atlanta last week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are aware of that the phone relies on ALOT on framework and other files. Have you tried to delete any of the Google Apps? The phone doesnt work without them. Also, open source replacements arent going to be pulled out of the air magically. Its going to take ALOT of work.
Are you sad all your stuff was ruined?

Johnny Blaze said:
You are taking it all wrong. He hasn't been shut down, wont be shut down, etc. Read the original statement. As long as you any apps that arent part of the source code repository you are not violating anything as far as google is concerned.
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion around Google's apps for Android. We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need. I look forward to seeing what comes next!
So lets please stop being chicken little and get on with the dev work. Not including certain apps is not going to make or break any rom as each user should be able to find the apps on their own.
The sky is not falling although my home did get flooded in atlanta last week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure its not truly legal but i think its the way they have gone about it- and in the spirit of open source i fail to see how it affects them.....i thought their business plan was based on more people using the net, more people using their apps, and more people using google to search..... so surely he is creating more business for them?.....
I don't like where this is heading......

jealous
if i was google id be going mad too, seeing the new youtube and market on phones and its not supposed to be out yet.
maybe they will offer him a job

John Player said:
if i was google id be going mad too, seeing the new youtube and market on phones and its not supposed to be out yet.
maybe they will offer him a job
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree and I think those apps were the straw that broke the camels back...

Its all crap no one not even google can stop someone developing a rom with copyrighted
material on the internet.there are many ways to cover this up without being traced
Anyway what's stopping a simple script downloading google apps onto the device on boot? Nothing as android as source is open

spyz88 said:
You are aware of that the phone relies on ALOT on framework and other files. Have you tried to delete any of the Google Apps? The phone doesnt work without them. Also, open source replacements arent going to be pulled out of the air magically. Its going to take ALOT of work.
Are you sad all your stuff was ruined?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The frameworks, etc and files needed to run the os are part of what you can get from the repository. I set up my mac to cook my own roms so I do know whats there and what isnt.
I bootcamped back into vista, loaded adb explorer and removed market, gmail, youtube, and maps. My phone does work without them. If you need gmail then yes there would be an issue but only reason i have gmail is that it was required for me to get my G1 when it came out. Try it for yourself. You will be a lot less functional but your phone will still work.
Besides Google is kinda in a shaky spot. Win mo although not great is established along with RIM os, and Iphone so Android is still in the growing stage and to attract the business users it has to have no hiccups or possible easy exploits so I do believe they will do a lot of barking but very little bite. Probably if Cyanogen wouldnt have made it on engadget, yahoo, msn probably wouldve been left alone.
There are still better things to do with the os. The real dev work is what cyanogen and others do with the kernel, memory management, etc not the apps included with the rom.

PROJECT:OpenAndroid
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=564263 We are attempting to as a community replace all of google's parts with opensourced programs developed and written ourselves. If you have any thoughts or suggestions please let us know.

The issue is that right now if you want to create a useful ROM you need to include the Market app at a minimum.
Sure Gmail is easy enough to replace, and Maps can be downloaded from the Market. But wait, you can't download it from the Market because you don't have a Market app.
So until there is an open source way to access the Market the ROM development community for Android pretty much hosed.

Hopefully this is not heading to where I think it is heading to... Or I might just jump on the next iPhone and say bye bye to Google.

Actually just a though. Just make a way to for the end user to back the google apps and then after a flash to reload them back on after install. That is not violating their stoopid terms then lol. And then for any updates just providing where you can get the updated stuff directly from google. Like where to get market 1.6 and so forth just right from google. Again no violating anything google. Defiantly a sad day for android. Since they don't let tethering , more then 3 home, not having file system access (like win mo), and no ads (adfree) lol, and many of the other great things with out root. If Google sees this thru I am going to go back to Apple iPhone and to hell with Android. Google will loose alot of users out of this I think.

Just write apps to tie you in with Hotmail / contacts / calendaring / outlook and leave GMail totally out of it.... Google will change their tune about the usage of 'their' apps. Because really they get the most from it by keeping you tied in to their online services.

Wow! I dont even know what to think. It must be a cold day in hell. I really hope that Cyanogen and the devs here @xda can come up with a way around this. And to think that Cyanogen was making some serious headway with the development of his Roms, website, and YouTube channel. I am more or less in shock right now. I have all the faith in the world that you guys will come through this still developing the best the Android community has to offer. Just be patient...
And seriously?...you would switch to Iphone? Who the #UCK wants one of those pieces of $H1T.
NOT ME!!

I highly doubt google would actually follow through and take legal action on something like this. It would be a bad business move all around. I would expect the C&D are more about pleasing manufactures and carriers more then google being worried about their own code, in which case who can blame them as they are at a point where they desperately need to attract these companies in order to ensure the future of android.

Just received a pretty interesting article via Twitter.
http://bit.ly/2NjYST
Not my article, and not necessarily my opinion, but it's a good read.

Arrgghh..google..
Bubye google apps..lets just forget them!
Modified android is much important then google apps itself!!
Google, you are very ridicoulous!! You make your app avaliable free for other system, but for your own system? Even now you make gmail support exchange..
I think i hate google as much as i hate apple..lol..

spyz88 said:
You are aware of that the phone relies on ALOT on framework and other files. Have you tried to delete any of the Google Apps? The phone doesnt work without them. Also, open source replacements arent going to be pulled out of the air magically. Its going to take ALOT of work.
Are you sad all your stuff was ruined?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ. The phone works without the google apps. I know. Thats what I had when I first got my HTC Magic 32A. For some reason, HTC did not include ANY of Google's stuff in it.
So, no market, no gmail, no maps, no youtube. It was boring as hell. but i still can do pretty much all i needed to do on it (emails, txt and calls).
Just had to imap/pop3 sync gmail using the HTC email client. One thing I hated was the fact that I need to rely on SlideME for my apps. SlideMe(at the time) had very limited apps.

So is including the market breaking the rules, if it is can someone setup a webpage alternative to download apps then just not include google stuff. Open street maps has better maps anyway so i use rmaps, google mail well plenty of email clients about. If we wait i am syre there will be alternative apps for the other google stuff.

Or, oh, I dunno, how about adding a default bookmark android-leak or something and let users download pirated apps? "To bypass the Google Market"? LOL... Basically Google wants us to know that including their apps for free (as in Cyanogen roms) is just like pirating apps, so we are the bad guys already anyway.
I really hope Google will not follow up with the C&D and further spread fear all around.
We are all Google's pawns by using Google apps, let them see our email, see our location, store our search preferences etc to "return better result for your searches" or really, target marketing. When we stop using Google apps (, and move our business to, gasp, Hotmail), they will like it better?
RotoRooted said:
And seriously?...you would switch to Iphone? Who the #UCK wants one of those pieces of $H1T.
NOT ME!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just saying I'm not happy with the news and I'm going to vote with my money when the next device comes along. I thought Google was the "good guy", but now I think Apple and Google both seem like they think they are the gods of the world anyway.

Most secure apps for various purposes

Ive been through the entire security forum. Must say till a little raw but it will mature hopefully. Still a lot of noobs talking and no serious dev talk. Im not a developer but I have done some research esp on encryption systems and keep myself updated with the loopholes in various apps. Until such time when they do join in I think it would be a good idea (esp if the higher-level know-its) would share their list of apps they use for their everyday functioning and especially how you currently protect yourself best against unwarranted attacks to the types other forums are talking about.
My list is:
K-9 mail : for email. I use APG with that though im still not convinced its worth it cause the keys would be a easy to 'reverse engineer' as you can easily detect the device you use to send the mail and thus an estimate of the computing power essentially showing them the narrow range of prime numbers in which the key could have been generated. But you would need to be a dedicated target for that. Plus its open-source and very popular.
Xprivacy: its good for apps with too many unnecessary permissions but it wont protect you against intruder attacks.
network connections: just switched over to this from wire shark. Still undergoing testing. But it tell you the current internet connections and seem promising. You can block the suspicious IPs using xposed framework called peerblock (look into the xposed mod index). Needless to say but I think blacklisting google would be perhaps make you life considerably old-fashioned esp if your plugging the google 'backdoor' access they provide to 'he-who-shall-not-be-named' organizations.
Browser: im using the native AOSP browser. Firefox would be a better alternative in my opinion to chrome or others. I wish we had chromium for android.
Quickpic: using it instead of the native gallery after i found that it was connecting to the internet.
Calander: using the native AOSP calander but deleted the calander sync cause i try to avoid relying on google too much. selectively Denied internet permission.
ES file manager: a very complete tool. root explorer with checksum built-in. denied internet permissions.
TextSecure : Using this for standard texting because it seems to offer more encryption that any other texting app at the moment. Plus its going to be the default messaging app in Cyanogen ROMs in the future. Offers One-Time-Pad system encryption which is encryption theoretically secure (what that means for the common man is that this encryption is the only one that has stood the test of time to be unbreakable of used properly. All other encryption systems rely on the fact that the decrypting systems used to 'crack' the encryption lag behind the algorithms. Lets hope the devs did implement it properly)
Remove Google from CM10+ ROMs : http://www.xda-developers.com/android/remove-the-google-from-cyanogenmod-with-freecygn/
"Not every user particularly cares for Google’s proprietary bits and its tendency to put them everywhere. As such, XDA Senior Member MaR-V-iN has created a script to clear out Google proprietary binaries from all CM10+ ROMs. Freecyngn disassembles the CyanogenMod settings app and replaces Google Analytics library with the free NoAnalytics. The whole process doesn’t break the Settings app, and turns your device into one that is Google-free"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks to @SecUpwN for the site: www.prism-break.org As you will see by visiting this site its not secure but just a list of more open-source projects.
I dont use a lot of google products like gmail or chrome or maps but i would like to minus the uneasiness that i have using it. And i dont use public wifi at all. The great things in life are hardly ever free!
Needless to say but i use CM 10.1 since its well developed and open-source. Looking forward to omniROM by chainfire and other great devs. I do believe we need some serious stenographic programs for android because encryption alone is not the way to go. Maybe they will take this more seriously. This remains a work in progress. As always hit thanks if it helps.

CM is now for profit. It's CyanogenMOD Inc. Anyway, this is a pretty naive approach, IMHO. You want to keep something secret you can't tell technology about it. Check out "Schneier on Security."

where did you download "network connections" from?

@aejazhaq: See www.prism-break.org!

runwithme said:
where did you download "network connections" from?
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I downloaded it when the dev was giving the pro version free for a limited time to XDA members. How ever its available on the play store...https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antispycell.connmonitor&hl=en

SecUpwN said:
@aejazhaq: See www.prism-break.org!
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Click to collapse
Yes i cam across that just a week ago. It seems to me as my knowledge progress' that the apps available are just to keep the selective data eg your mails private if you use APG with that. @pan.droid I think anything on your device is still as vulnerable as can be honestly and don't think, at least as of now that you can protect your data on you device with any satisfactory means, at least not yet. I'm interested in stenographic means more now than ever because I think encryption alone wont cut it esp keys generated on the phone; the prime numbers needed for a foreseeable future (3+ yrs) protection are elusive on the phone, perhaps the PC can do a better job, but again with its fallacies esp with emails being stored in the cloud permanently means that there's an expiration date on such material you choose to share. And given it lacks forward secrecy and anyone using PGP in emails is definitely shouting encrypted msgs being transmitted perhaps arousing more suspension and the subsequent package.
Thus I do agree the list is currently very naive but perhaps the best we can do at the moment. Thats why I'll leave people to share their opinions on this because this is perhaps an ongoing discussion.

I'm really interested in a contacts replacement. I hate the new style google version but I don't trust ANYTHING free from the app store. They all download your contacts!
You didn't mention AFWall+, the iptables firewall I consider instrumental in blocking most phone home attempts.

SecUpwN said:
@aejazhaq: See www.prism-break.org!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, pretty great site!

pan.droid said:
Actually, pretty great site!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome. If you're interested in security projects, have a look!

I'd totally jump on board with that, but all I have is a WI-FI tablet, ATM. Great activist project for anyone serious about security.

pan.droid said:
I'd totally jump on board with that, but all I have is a WI-FI tablet, ATM. Great activist project for anyone serious about security.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly, our project is missing real security enthusiasts and DEVELOPERS. Do you know anyone I should get in touch with?

I use "Keepass2Android Offline" to manage my passwords. This "offline" version removes Internet access permissions which I consider essential for security of my database.

Ars: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

A few weeks ago, I posted a very unfortunate Google+ post of the creator of Focal and why it was removed from the CM codebase. It was a depressing story and it really started to make you wonder about where CM is going.
This time, after reading an extremely well-written article, I've come to a similarly depressing conclusion: Android by Google is slowly becoming as locked down as iOS, but not in the sense that you think; it's not about what apps let you do what, it's the developers.
We've finally arrived at a critical flaw with the way Android is developed and these days, I can no longer claim that Android (by Google) is "open" anymore.
Feel free to give this a read (Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Ars Technica in any way).
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...ntrolling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/
It's not just about Amazon's version of Android; CyanogenMod is for all intents and purposes a "fork" of Android. It is designed to work without Google Apps and as we all know, we flash those seperately. But that's the problem, the answer isn't just "Well, I'll just flash the Gapps and it will work like it should". What will happen if new Play Store apps start referring to features in the framework that don't exist in a form that we can flash? What if the license to flash the Gapps gets revoked?
How will CyanogenMod start adding features to apps that were originally AOSP but are now closed source? What will happen when the open source Messaging app is abandoned and turns into a Hangouts feature? How can CM stay on top of that?
It's not as simple as "take the source we currently have and work with it", because what will happen when Google adds a killer feature to an app that depends on some API that is no longer open source?
These are some rather frightening questions to deal with. I don't know where Android is going, but I'm certainly starting to wonder what's going to happen to it.
I'd appreciate any and all input on this.

Not very continuous, but here's my thoughts about the article:
The Gapps license is meant to lock the makers of Android phones into Google, so users get locked within Google and Google can gain revenue from the users. After going to that extent to make sure Google gets to keep the device's user, what's to gain if Google users of the device who flash CM to be locked out of the system instead of keeping them "trapped" with the Google ecosystem even with a non Google ROM? Doesn't make any sense does it?
I suppose we will still have to flash them like we flash the Play Store now. Unlike Amazon, CM (for now) actually still relies on Google and doesn't "divert" revenue to another company and therefore Google would be more than happy to let their apps be used. But if CM does start going the Amazon way, I believe Google may lock CM out.
Those APIs take time to develop, take the Maps API for example - you think they spent millions, if not billions mapping the entire world and even roaming every street just to make sure you can find your way around for free? They'll need to recoup their costs somehow.
While Android is open source and contributed by Google for free, don't forget Google is a company, not a charity. They have to make money or their shareholders won't be happy. Even if their shareholders are massive fans of open source they also have thousands of employees to pay, and all that costs money. And don't forget, when a company is providing free stuff for you to use, you are not their customer - you are their product. Android will change in ways that will keep Google profitable and keep competitiors unprofitable, while keeping the users as comfortable as possible so they will continue to be their product.

cccy said:
Not very continuous, but here's my thoughts about the article:
The Gapps license is meant to lock the makers of Android phones into Google, so users get locked within Google and Google can gain revenue from the users. After going to that extent to make sure Google gets to keep the device's user, what's to gain if Google users of the device who flash CM to be locked out of the system instead of keeping them "trapped" with the Google ecosystem even with a non Google ROM? Doesn't make any sense does it?
I suppose we will still have to flash them like we flash the Play Store now. Unlike Amazon, CM (for now) actually still relies on Google and doesn't "divert" revenue to another company and therefore Google would be more than happy to let their apps be used. But if CM does start going the Amazon way, I believe Google may lock CM out.
Those APIs take time to develop, take the Maps API for example - you think they spent millions, if not billions mapping the entire world and even roaming every street just to make sure you can find your way around for free? They'll need to recoup their costs somehow.
While Android is open source and contributed by Google for free, don't forget Google is a company, not a charity. They have to make money or their shareholders won't be happy. Even if their shareholders are massive fans of open source they also have thousands of employees to pay, and all that costs money. And don't forget, when a company is providing free stuff for you to use, you are not their customer - you are their product. Android will change in ways that will keep Google profitable and keep competitiors unprofitable, while keeping the users as comfortable as possible so they will continue to be their product.
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First, I appreciate the input! I was looking forward to intelligent discussion and it's great that the first reply is just that.
I would like to clarify though; my concern is not so much about Google making money; they are a business and deserve to make money in whatever way they see fit. We have something they want (ad clicks and search history) and as long as they provide an experience worth using, I don't mind that transaction at all.
My worries start with what the custom development scene will look like one or two years from now if the base apps that make Android useful on its own (and by extension, useful to custom developers) have been molded into Google Play apps or frameworks or APIs.
In parallel, it's also starting to make sense why Cyanogen continues to put effort into alternate applications such as Apollo and Focal; they saw this coming way before we did.

LiquidSolstice said:
First, I appreciate the input! I was looking forward to intelligent discussion and it's great that the first reply is just that.
I would like to clarify though; my concern is not so much about Google making money; they are a business and deserve to make money in whatever way they see fit. We have something they want (ad clicks and search history) and as long as they provide an experience worth using, I don't mind that transaction at all.
My worries start with what the custom development scene will look like one or two years from now if the base apps that make Android useful on its own (and by extension, useful to custom developers) have been molded into Google Play apps or frameworks or APIs.
In parallel, it's also starting to make sense why Cyanogen continues to put effort into alternate applications such as Apollo and Focal; they saw this coming way before we did.
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Click to collapse
I believe the custom development scene wouldn't get affected much. After all, remember the old XDA-Developers? Windows was all locked down, but the cooks still managed to make customized ROMs. What's more, Google wouldn't want to lose their "products" - Google wants us to continue to use their services so they can earn money, they wouldn't lock us out.
What competitors lack is the capability to access Google's services (Frameworks, APIs, etc) as Google has ways to block them (Which is why we had circumvents like device spoofing). If you had a device designed for Google's version of Android, I am sure Google would still enable access if you use a custom ROM. The point of locking those competitors out is to force them to embrace Google's version of Android and not use their own forks which would keep Google out of certain aspects of the user's phone, decreasing revenue. Therefore, if you could roll your own custom ROM, it makes sense for Google to continue supporting you so you still completely rely on them instead of "outsourcing" to other competitors.
CM puts effort into alternate applications because as you can see right now, CM's starting to roll their own commercial forked devices - what happens after that? If you have seen the ways of other commercial versions of Android (Amazon, China brands, etc), they start replacing certain revenue generating aspects of the phone to use their own service instead of Google's. Certainly not what Google wants.
In short, I would say, if you are a small custom ROM user, Google isn't going to come after you, they want you to use their services! But if you are a competing company, expect your devices to be locked out from Google in the hopes that they eventually force you to bow to them and convert all your users completely to Google's "products".

The BIG problem with Open Source...

Making something Open Source is essentially a tool to crush innovation, and make developers lazy, so they are more like robots without a brain of their own.
It is an easy route to make some money by taking an open source library/ project, introducing ads, repackaging it with your own name and publishing it. Both the platform (e.g Google Play Store) and the developers are happy because they both get to make money without any effort.
The end result: Unhappy users and dumb developers!
Over the last 8 years or more, I have tried hundreds of apps in specific categories like File Managers, Gallery, Music Player, Video Player, etc. Yet I haven't found one that is PERFECT. Although 'perfect' is subjective, extremely few apps are worthy of applause.
If you search for Gallery apps on Google Play Store, you will get thousands of apps. Unfortunately, literally over half of them are identical and copycats of the Simple Gallery app. Rest are total garbage. Clearly, these apps are taking some easily (or freely) available library/ source, changing the name and signature, introducing ads, packaging them and publishing on Google Play Store under different developer accounts. It is quite possible that many of these apps are from the same developer who has several developer accounts. The number of copycats that are allowed to flourish on Google Play Store is simply unbelievable.
This kind of poor vetting by Google Play Store makes for a terrible user experience when people try out different apps, only to find that they all are exact replicas of each other. They are clearly violating the REPETITIVE CONTENT policy of Google Play Store where these apps have absolutely nothing of value to add. They are simply a source of ad revenue for the developers. Google probably doesn't mind that because they get 30% cut from those revenues.
As far as Gallery apps are concerned, there are literally less than 10 unique apps among thousands listed on Google Play Store. Much less actually. There is absolutely no thought/ love given when designing apps. Despite the versatility that Android supposedly offers, the interface, ease of access, features, etc leave too much to desire for.
That said, the question is 'Are Good Android apps very difficult to make'?

Making a good Android Apps is neither difficult nor easy. It requires a good understanding of the needs of the client in the app. And the rest is quality hard work.

nihitthakkar said:
Making a good Android Apps is neither difficult nor easy. It requires a good understanding of the needs of the client in the app. And the rest is quality hard work.
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What about making apps for the market, and not specifically for a client?
As stated in the OP, most apps are pure garbage, or replica of other apps. In other words, no thought or concept, absolutely no love or attention to detail. The Play Store is just a hub to publish some garbage and make money out of it through ads.
Is the amount of effort required in making and maintaining an app too much relative to the money to be made from such apps?
Apps are end results of knowledge imparted in educational institutions. It is pretty clear that the good students don't make apps.

As with Gallery apps, the same is also true for File Managers, Music Players, Video Players, Browsers, etc.
It is easy to relate with Browsers because many are forks of Chromium. The same holds true for other types of apps too.
In any category, there are less than 10 unique apps (even lesser actually) and all the rest (in hundreds or thousands) are either copycats or pure garbage.
Sad and unfortunate truth.

The Google Play Store boasts of roughly 3 million apps today.
I bet there are less than 300 unique experiences (read: apps)! All the rest are copycats or pure garbage.

Making good apps requires a dedicated team and effort.
If you want good apps for yourself, either code them yourself or commission a developer to get it done. And don't expect it to work on all phones.
Because android device fragmentation is a massive problem.
And expecting app development from an Education Institution?
Thats most hilarious **** I have heard. Education institutions don't give 2 Fs about the commercial setup.

karandpr said:
Making good apps requires a dedicated team and effort.
If you want good apps for yourself, either code them yourself or commission a developer to get it done. And don't expect it to work on all phones.
Because android device fragmentation is a massive problem.
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Does that take away the opinion expressed in the OP?
Does it counter the fact that the Google Play Store is full of garbage apps?
Does it counter the fact that most apps are essentially replicas of each other?
Does it counter the fact that most apps are simple repackaging of open source resources with very little value to no value being added in the final product?
Does it counter the fact that open source resources are essentially a tool for incompetent developers to make money without any effort?
karandpr said:
And expecting app development from an Education Institution?
Thats most hilarious **** I have heard. Education institutions don't give 2 Fs about the commercial setup.
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Click to collapse
Can you point me to where I said so?
You may want to read my comment again.

TheMystic said:
Does that take away the opinion expressed in the OP?
Does it counter the fact that the Google Play Store is full of garbage apps?
Does it counter the fact that most apps are essentially replicas of each other?
Does it counter the fact that most apps are simple repackaging of open source resources with very little value to no value being added in the final product?
Does it counter the fact that open source resources are essentially a tool for incompetent developers to make money without any effort?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You stated my opinion. I did mine.
1.) Your opinion. Not fact. There are lot of good unique apps.
2.) Yes and No. Garbage apps use better SEO and have higher visibility. Unlike iOS store ,Play store doesn't curate apps manually.
3.) No they are not. Lot of apps are restricted by System APIs enforced by Google. This is true for Camera and File Manager Apps
4.) Welcome to open source. That's it's selling point. You are free to compile your own version of apps if it bothers you
5.) No it is not. This is a very pigeonholed vision of open source.
Can you point me to where I said so?
You may want to read my comment again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TheMystic said:
What about making apps for the market, and not specifically for a client?
As stated in the OP, most apps are pure garbage, or replica of other apps. In other words, no thought or concept, absolutely no love or attention to detail. The Play Store is just a hub to publish some garbage and make money out of it through ads.
Is the amount of effort required in making and maintaining an app too much relative to the money to be made from such apps?
Apps are end results of knowledge imparted in educational institutions. It is pretty clear that the good students don't make apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This statement here.

karandpr said:
You stated my opinion. I did mine.
1.) Your opinion. Not fact. There are lot of good unique apps.
2.) Yes and No. Garbage apps use better SEO and have higher visibility. Unlike iOS store ,Play store doesn't curate apps manually.
3.) No they are not. Lot of apps are restricted by System APIs enforced by Google. This is true for Camera and File Manager Apps
4.) Welcome to open source. That's it's selling point. You are free to compile your own version of apps if it bothers you
5.) No it is not. This is a very pigeonholed vision of open source.
This statement here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. The 1st point was an opinion, and thats what I said. A 'lot' of good unique apps? 'Lot' could be subjective/ relative, but I would say that even that would be less than 1% of the number of apps available on Google Play Store. Over 99% apps on Google Play Store are garbage.
2. Okay.
3. I don't think you tried out enough apps. In the last one week, I must have tried atleast 50 Gallery apps, and over 70% of them had the exact same UI, Settings, bugs, etc. Some of them had completely misleading pictures on their app page too.
4. I wish I could.
5. With every generalized statement, there are almost always exceptions, and this is no different. So exceptions prove the rule. Give the quality of apps on Google Play Store and the fact that many of them are replicas of each other created from the same code base/ source, it only proves that open-source provided earning opportunities to incompetent developers way more than being a tool to not reinvent the wheel.
As with my statement on educational institution, you have misunderstood it. I said good students from institutions imparting coding knowledge don't make apps (with exceptions of course). That is very evident from the quality of apps we get to see (again obviously with exceptions). It is the lazy and incompetent lot that simply repackages a free resource without adding any value to it and then earn some money through ads.