Database Info

Security does matter!

I wrote this On Xperia Neo General forum but it belongs to here much more.
Original thread at: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1447095
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Introduction
I have not seen much talk about security in XDA.
First, here's just one informative link talking about using and developing apps and security risks involved.
http://www.technologyreview.com/comp...1/?mod=related
Any bug in software could potentially be used as a security loophole to gain access to private information, spy on you, get your credit card info(should you do such things on phone).
What is kind of unsettling is that everyone seems fine with modding, tweaking, developing and using those ROMs made in XDA without worrying if there could be that kind of bug in your made or used ROM.
You don't need a malicious app only to have risks. Most people use Windows so they should know that it is OP systems bugs and vulnerabilities that allow for unwanted access to your files, data, etc.
Android itself is having very non-foolproof security system. All apps on unrooted phone are in sandbox. That's no security measure at all. It doesn't limit app from stealing your private info at all, it only cant delete the whole ROM. That's just idiotic security system, for it is the only thing beside encrypting shut off phone on 3.0 and 4.0. So that means Android on it's own has no security measures while it's working. Even Windows has... some... but not too much... so you could pay for antivirus and antispyware software ofc.
It has always been the goal of big corporations to make money from insecurity, be they software developers, arms dealers and you name it. They all benefit from insecurities existing. Same is with Google and it's Android. But the good news is that we the users can modify Android. We could all say "Au revoir security bugs and loopholes!" if we would care about developing ROMs designed to make Android more secure... alas that's not happening yet!
Overview of Linux/Android security issues.
It's a short condensed description just to get you interested in the topic. There's lots of material on net, you only need to search, read, watch videos.
Linux becomes more vulnerable with more applications with different permissions installed. Same is true for Android.
Say your Phone Exporer has root access, that means it has root access to whole Android. To remove unnecessary risks, this app's root access should be limited to only most necessary functions it needs to operate.
Currently for Android there is no such solution. For Linux there is Apparmor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppArmor
Total root access is obvious vulnerability, but it is at least known one. Let's look at possibility of apps having hidden permissions and what that could mean to you.
Blade Buddy from Market.
On market it does not list permission to "Unique Device ID"(IMEI for GSM and MEID; ESN for CDMA) for free nor for paid version.
That means the author of BB has left the code from free version in paid one. This permission is used by ads to track you. It's not necessary code for ads, but it helps the dev know who clicked on the add and generated him some money. To see your money generating zombie empire stretch across the whole globe.... quite a thrill, isn't it?
So it's a latent code, with no benefit to user and an exploit only calling to be abused.
Unique Device ID allows you to be tracked on net and also where you are physically. GPS is just one way to find you, police for example have scanners to locate your devices physical location by the IMEI code. You can count on the "bad guys" having this technology as well, for it's quite a tool for burglars and other criminals.
The risks of your home being marked as the next dungeon to be looted by some raiders, I mean criminals(or perhaps WoW players sleepwalking and sleepraiding?) or getting your ID and bank details stolen by trojan/hacker is random. Yet the threat would not exist without apps having so flagrant hidden permissions.
Next app with ludicrous permissions
Brightest Flashlight
It does list many permissions, among them "Hardware controls - take pictures and videos ". No, it does not need a permission to take photos through cameras to operate the flashlight. But it's fun nonetheless for the dev to see his trusty peasants, or maybe he just likes to observe people like some watch fish in aquarium or hamsters in cage( "Look at that dork!", "You're one ugly m...f...er","ummm a couple kissing in dark with ma flashlight, what are they searching?", "what's that you eat, mr Korean, brains?" "hey show me that document again.")
You don't even need to run the app yourself. It can be triggered by hacker on background and take a snapshot of you.
On top of this little needless permission it has following hidden permissions:
1. Unique IMSI, read about here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI
2. MCC+MNC (CDMA)
3. Unique Devide ID
4. Cell Tower Name.
That's a lot of needless permissions for flashlight, these are there just to track you the app user and have nothing to do with your comfortable use of the app.
These are just 2 apps with totally needless permissions for their intended functioning. If you don't want your Windows and Linux have such security holes then why do you want your Android have them?! You don't want, that's the point and these apps would not be so popular if people would really know and care about their phone being secure.
It can be stated for sure that above exemplified permissions not listed on market are more useful for pranksters, criminals or someone plainly looking-down-on-all-the-dumb-sheep and not at all for any legitimate, user or customer friendly purposes.
There are very few tools to check for security and privacy problems in apps. That gives a sense that majority of devs do not want Android to be secure and private, because Android is another revenue generating platform through Google ads business of course. Were people more educated about the matter then Google ads business would shrink down as well. A private and secure Android can't be tracked or annoyed with ads. No ads, no profit. No security therefore means profit. Unfortunately this lack of security can be exploited by anyone with criminal or malignant intentions so very easily.

In my honest opinion. If someone keeps files like ccinfo they have to worry about being jacked then they deserve it. Should it happen. U shouldn't keep things on your phoney don't want the rest if the world to have
Sent from my Cyanocrack using Xparent Blue Tapatalk

You don't need to keep credit card info on phone, your using the credit card via Market or logging in to bank on phones browser is enough to intercept your credit card info. Your browser may show you xxxxxxxxxxxx+"last four digits only" but that doesn't mean the data to and from your device doesn't contain exact credit card number. It's encrypted, but that is merely a minor inconvenience for a hacker.

That is why being rooted is not advised to everyone. Mainly if they don't know what they are doing. Also customs roms are not for everyone. People flash them cause they think its cool and don't understand what they are doing. That is their problem. People should pay attention to the permissions that am app asks for. Common sense is the best protection. Main reason I don't do anything that deals with a bank on my phone.

Raoa said:
I have not seen much talk about security in XDA.
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There's talk. It's just not on important yet, because the android device is not being marketed like an OS is with a personal computer.
However, the more we do on our phones, the more we'll realize it needs protection like firewalls. We catch a few like CIQ or the Wimax exploit, but it's going to get worse as we advance in our integration. We do need to start now before exploits get worse and stay ahead of the curve.
Until that time, 4G exploits and root kit programs will run freely on our devices that houses a lot of our personal information.
Plus, for some stupid reason, there are a lot of people who think Linux is immuned to viruses and security holes due to it's code transparency. Android is being mainstreamed. It will soon be a continuous target like other existing popular software programs and operating systems.

And that's why iOS is far superior even without widgets or live wallpapers.

Something to think about.thanks for posting.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

alex2792 said:
And that's why iOS is far superior even without widgets or live wallpapers.
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IOS and Mac are just as vulnerable, maybe even more so because of there popularity and the misconception that IOS is secure and does not need AntiVirus protection. Just last week i removed a nasty virus on a brand new Macbook Pro so that is not the way to think. You need to act as if there are security issues and just be really careful at what link you click and what email you open.

mattfox27 said:
IOS and Mac are just as vulnerable, maybe even more so because of there popularity and the misconception that IOS is secure and does not need AntiVirus protection. Just last week i removed a nasty virus on a brand new Macbook Pro so that is not the way to think. You need to act as if there are security issues and just be really careful at what link you click and what email you open.
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I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I am not an expert on iOS nor do I have any wish to even know or use it, because Apple buys from suppliers that emply child labor and sweatshops.
When Linux started spreading around people also thought it has no viruses.
Same story repeats with every software.
For each different OS it takes merely time before people start to notice that their OS has viruses/trojans/spyware too. That doesn't mean their OS is not targeted. You should expect all sorts of thieves to use any and all opportunities.
Secondly OS does not matter so much as the matter that your device is connected to wifi, data, bluetooth, et or not. IP addresses, MAC, IMEI, etc they all stay the same on every platform. No matter which OS, they all connect to wireless networks, cell network, data, bluetooth, etc which all have set standards.
So someone wanting to track, spy, get your private info simply has to intercept the data your device sends to any network. If you don't use strong encryption to send info via network then it is easy to "wiretap" you.
Why is there so much spam, viruses, spyware in internet today? It's because the software managing internet is not made to be so secure. If it were secure then it would also be more private and safer for people to chat over net.
So not only OS's need to be more secure, but the very internet itself needs to be reformed.
This relates to SOPA and PIPA. Had those two bills been passed the next step would have been logically to make changes to all networks so you'd be more easily trackable, hackable, "wiretappable". It's simply logical, cause SOPA, PIPA were so defunctly worded as if asking/preparing for a third bill to regulate the networks.
So we must make sure that internet will be reformed for the private users and not for greedy corporations. We would not need to buy anti-spyware, anti-virus software if the internet were truly engineered for the welfare of humanity.
You could use any OS, bugged or not and not be afraid of loosing your property or privacy if the internet would stop such acts before they could harm you, the individual who is supposed to truly and freely benefit from the services; either for free or for honest price, but now you are robbed and think it is good to pay the thieves.

Raoa said:
Android itself is having very non-foolproof security system. All apps on unrooted phone are in sandbox. That's no security measure at all. It doesn't limit app from stealing your private info at all, it only cant delete the whole ROM.
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Please elaborate. The sandbox does prevent one app from reading the data of another, such as the CC info from the Market.
Also, are you sure Market sends the entire CC number? There's no reason for it to send it, the transaction is performed on Google's servers.

alex2792 said:
I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
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Are you talking about viruses or malware? Please don't conflate the two.
Malware is easy to take care of - check the apps you're downloading for what permissions they want. It's as simple as that.

alex2792 said:
I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Just before xmas an iphone developer admitted to deliberately uploading malware in his ios app to show malware can easily affect iphone.
http://m.intomobile.com/2011/11/08/security-expert-sneaks-malware-into-iphone-app-store/
That was for normal iphones. For jailbroken ones there are more malware apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

Raoa, your absolutely right.
I've had the exact same thought recently
Its like the overall view of the Android landscape is ridden from real security apps, for the simple purpose of have the platform as open as possible. And while this is good for developers and users of this and other serious forums, its also open for the "dark" communities as well.
I often ask myself, if the ROM devs onboard have these thoughts themselves, as in, what is my source of this modded apk, is is straight from the Market or from another dubious, (do I dare say chinese forum, just an example)
And how clean is my code really?
And is all mods just legit just cuz they are from here?
I love that we have so many ppl having a desire to mess around with the OS, but I miss, as you say, the talk about having a go on security as well.
I dont know, but I do think that awareness, as you initial post direct us to, should be raised, as a natural step for any serious dev and users in general on XDA, to be more aware, of the code.
Im on my first year as an Android user, and ofcourse did have to gain root on my splendid Sensation. Why?, cuz I needed the security tools requiring root.
Ask again, why? Cuz I came from Winblows 7, and know what a jungle software is, and that is is indeed exploitable, like hell, you might say.
And Im gladd I did gain s-off and root, cuz its really really needed fo youre just a little concerned about your privacy in, mails, sms, location, usage pattern, netbanking, dropobox deposits of your ****, some might even be work related and therefore hold more than just your own privacy.
And then there is what you mentioned, our devices unique ID's, the intent "app install referrer" to "plug" you into admob/google analyzer and so on.
I love one guy here, Treve, who made the HTC tool for scanning for ****, Logging Test Tool, and in version 10, he made it aware of admob/mobclix/analytics, and my god it find a lot...
So Treve, please, if you read this, just go on, as every version you make is getting finer and finer.
We could learn from this guy, and others here that got more code-insight.
What we CAN do as a community at the very least, is to share our knowledge and tips for securing our phones.
HOST filtering, code scanning of apks and so on. using AV's and firewalls and so on.
Right from the start I noticed that Android is not a clean OS, nor is its app market, and I noticed this cuz I have another splendid little Linux system at hand, Smoothwall Express with url filtering and proxy enabled
and My god is Android and its aps LEAKING!
Have a look in your urlfilters on a standalone firewall the step after your wireless android phone, and watch how much **** is going on.
Well, I can tell you for a start that I have added atleast 100 new domains to my custom urlfilter, besides the casual downloadable HOST filters around the net, like the ones found in AdblockPlus and so on. But after android, heh, you need more than just advertising filtering, that much I can say.
Just as an example, like those you mentioned, I have one too, that I was made aware of by Avast on my phone tonight, that ChompSMS was being flagged as malware/trojan.
I thought, **** man, why this crap, Im quite fund of Chomp, really.
So I thought, no, imma let more that Avast on my phone have a go.
So I File Expert dump the full apk, and uploaded it for a scan on virustotal, just for the sake of it. And whatta'ya know, ClamAV, GData, Kaspersky, NOD32, and Sophos flagged it as that same Plankton.G variant as my on-phone Avast.
Great, I thought (sarkasm intended)
I thought a bit further and picked up APK Multi-Tool, had a decompile and a content-scan for just "http" in is readable code.
12 different domains is mentioned so far, and I didnt even poke in all of its xml's, just the smali's
I know android is by a far stretch advertising born, and ofcuz the app devs have a right to earn their money, no doubt about that, and I gladly pay for the good ****, like most ppl here believeably do, but.. 12 different .com's mentioned in its code is a no go for me.
I have earlier used Privacy Blocker, and Privacy Inspector from XEUDOXUS in the market, to make permission scanning, beside using LBE/HOST/Avast, and I like those two aps, the Inspector one is free but only can scan.
The paid Blocker can "repair" as a feature, but its not maintained enuff, so it often fails to make installable apks, so not really worth it for me anymore, but as a free too, it can tell you more about those permissions you mentioned.
But enuff said from me for now, lets just collect and share our tips and tricks, ALSO for security, not just developing ROM and mod's and hacks, as thou they are fine, if not to say, so cool and great, but, we need to be secure too.
Please do not polute the discussion with IOS vs Android and what not, cuz thats not the purpose of it, even thou it definitly concerns (g)A(r)pple products too.
Sincerely, Omnius

alex2792 said:
I'll give you OS X,but I've never heard of an iPhone virus while there are loads of malware on Android market.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Iphones can get viruses they come through SMS's and other sources not as bad as android apple keeps there market much more under control, but everything is vulnerable i work in a security team for a big corp and believe me nothing is safe.
Check these articles out i just found them on google.
I remember a while ago maybe a year or so there was a huge security hole in IOS5 and Mac waited a long time to tell the public and release a patch. The one major problem with Apple is when there are security threats they really try to keep it hush...Iphone's OS is tight but not totally secure. Its not viruses either its moslty just malware that charges you tons of money in texting i saw once an iphone that turned into a bot and at midnight it would dial a 900 number and just sit there all night at like $20 bucks a minunte then disconnect when it felt the phone move.
http://www.mactrast.com/2010/07/iphone-virus-discovered-be-vigilant-and-seek-advice/
http://techfragments.com/news/982/Software/Apple_iPhone_Virus_Spreads_By_SMS_Messages.html

I'm going to fanboy MIUI for a second.
When you install an app you are presented with a screen (separate from the market) that allows you to toggle all the permissions an app ask for between Allowed/Ask/Disabled.
More roms should adopt this.
NB: I haven't checked CM9 so it might be a CM9 feature that MIUI has polished or it might be native to MIUI.

weedy2887 said:
I'm going to fanboy MIUI for a second.
When you install an app you are presented with a screen (separate from the market) that allows you to toggle all the permissions an app ask for between Allowed/Ask/Disabled.
More roms should adopt this.
NB: I haven't checked CM9 so it might be a CM9 feature that MIUI has polished or it might be native to MIUI.
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I wouldn't be so fast to praise MIUI.

weedy2887 said:
I'm going to fanboy MIUI for a second.
When you install an app you are presented with a screen (separate from the market) that allows you to toggle all the permissions an app ask for between Allowed/Ask/Disabled.
More roms should adopt this.
NB: I haven't checked CM9 so it might be a CM9 feature that MIUI has polished or it might be native to MIUI.
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The problem is the "Average Joe" doesn't even look at those or doesn't know what they mean. I see so many viruses/malware/open security holes just because of user error its insane. Almost 90% of security breaches or problems originate from the end users not paying attention or just not knowing or caring. Also another thing i see so much when new clients call me with there servers melting down and all there banking info being stolen is they haven't installed any updates on there servers since they were set up 2-5 years ago. I worked for a large industrial supply company and all there servers running MS Server 2008 no updates had been installed and they were using AVG free on there main SQL server...INSANE LOL
Then theirs the users, "my computer was fine until my friend on facebook wanted my SS# and mothers maiden name and insisted i open his email attachment, now its acting weird what do you think is wrong?"
Brutal

what is the 4g exploit that you are talking about? And is it only with wimax or is lte part of it as well?

Oneiricl said:
Malware is easy to take care of - check the apps you're downloading for what permissions they want. It's as simple as that.
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It's absolutely amazing that people are willing to put up with something so ridiculous.
Sent from my SGH-I897

Detection of law enforcement malware (e.g. FinFisher)

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am opening this discussion in order to not only receive some high-quality answers on the following questions, but also to learn what everyone does in order to ensure security and integrity of Apps on their phones (especially when working in environments where attacks are likely or possible due to intersting files on the phone or similar).
Here is my question: Let's suppose a phone is ROOTED, is locked with a Pattern, is updated daily, has TitaniumBackup installed, runs Trust as well as an Antivirus App and on top of that, installed Apps are monitored in a regular basis through TitaniumBackup. Is it even possible for law enforcements or hackers to install malware? If so, what would be necessary for them to do so? Physical access? Malformed Apps with matching signature? Other types of attacks (encouraging @He3556 the owner of Smartphone Attack Vector to chime in)?
Second question (hope @jcase can answer this): What would be the best way of preventing attacks of afforementioned groups and alike? What do YOU personally do?

SecUpwN said:
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am opening this discussion in order to not only receive some high-quality answers on the following questions, but also to learn what everyone does in order to ensure security and integrity of Apps on their phones (especially when working in environments where attacks are likely or possible due to intersting files on the phone or similar).
Here is my question: Let's suppose a phone is ROOTED, is locked with a Pattern, is updated daily, has TitaniumBackup installed, runs Trust as well as an Antivirus App and on top of that, installed Apps are monitored in a regular basis through TitaniumBackup. Is it even possible for law enforcements or hackers to install malware? If so, what would be necessary for them to do so? Physical access? Malformed Apps with matching signature? Other types of attacks (encouraging @He3556 the owner of Smartphone Attack Vector to chime in)?
Second question (hope @jcase can answer this): What would be the best way of preventing attacks of afforementioned groups and alike? What do YOU personally do?
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Click to collapse
Pe rooted, with common rooted apps installed? Would be easy to compromise that phone, as you have already done it for them.
Use a stock firmware, chose a vendor with a recent history of good security (Samsung, nexus, motorola in that order imo), keep it up to date, reduce the number of apps you run, don't root it. Disabled usb debugging.

jcase said:
Pe rooted, with common rooted apps installed? Would be easy to compromise that phone, as you have already done it for them.
Use a stock firmware, chose a vendor with a recent history of good security (Samsung, nexus, motorola in that order imo), keep it up to date, reduce the number of apps you run, don't root it. Disabled usb debugging.
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Thanks for answering. So that means, in short words, buy a phone and only update official stuff. How boring, I wouldn't be here on XDA then! But I get your point. I'm especially interested in the question of detection. If such agencies have installed anything that would leak data (and I'm sure it's fairly easy to do for them), how would they hide that specific App from the list of TitaniumBackup? Also, how would they trick the Trust Even Logger created by @Dark3n to not show any installation?
Most importantly though, is there some way of detecting such installations or manipulations afterwards?

There is growing so called "Zero-Day-Exploit" Industry, with names like vupen or FinFisher , the one who are working for the German Gov. but also for countries like Saudia Arabia and Iran. They know how to find exploits, nobody knows about (zero-day) and program trojans for all kinds of platforms. So antivirus software can't help here. And it is easy to bypass security if you know one of the bugs - and we know there are many of them in firmware, operating systems, plugins, frameworks and so on... Beside this "white" marked there is also a grey and black marked. So if you need to track your woman or steal information from other companies, you will find somebody with a tool for that, i suppose.
You would need a "Intrusion Detection Software" - sorry but this won't work for Smartphones, because there is a lot of calculation, data and energy needed - you find this special hardware in big data centers.
Do not root and do not install Apps you don't really need is still a good advice, specially when people don't know so much about all this.
Another way to sneak in is to compromise the users pc, that is (maybe) connected to the phone sometimes (work with iphone sync but also with android to change DNS and get SMS with e-tan's - you will find more info it in the media)
Or if you have the "power" you can can use the cloud services (iOS, Google, Windows or other 3rd party services) to steal user data (sms, pictures, GPS history...) or just let it sync the malware to the phone. So you don't have to break in directly.
What would be the best way of preventing attacks of afforementioned groups and alike?
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tomorrow i will have time, there are to many possibilities

Thanks for clarifying, @He3556!
Now I know that phones in general are hard to lock down for such agencies. Time to quote myself:
SecUpwN said:
Most importantly though, is there some way of detecting such installations or manipulations afterwards?
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Click to collapse

Hey @He3556, if you've been following security news the past weeks, this topic here is becoming more relevant with each revelation. Since the trojan-coding company FinFisher has highly likely been hacked and some cool whisteblowers are publishing very sensitve data like price lists and handbooks on their Twitter account GammaGroupPR, more details of their secret software FinSpy Mobile is being revealed. And this is exactly the type of software that I am talking about here in this thread. I want to know how users can protect themselves from crap like that. According to the video that has been leaked, It is being installed through a fake update, or even through messages via E-Mail to "please" install this "very important update":
And just to make everyone more curious, FinSpy Mobile has been leaked on Twitter! It obviously works for all operating systems, including Android, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, and Symbian. Another trophy is source code of FinFly Web, which found its way the code hosting platform GitHub. It is designed to provide remote and covert infection of a Target System by using a wide range of web-based attacks. FinFly Web provides a point-and-click interface, enabling the Agent to easily create a custom infection code according to selected modules. Target Systems visiting a prepared website with the implemented infection code will be covertly infected with the configured software. Regarding FinSpy Mobile and similar software: How would law enforcements possibly attack a cautious member of XDA (or any other site)? I mean, people that have been in the field of flashing new ROMs, updating their firmware and recovery themselves, not installing strange APKs sent via E-Mail and controlling installed Apps through TitaniumBackup should be somewhat immune to such type of attacks, right?
It appears to me as if their software might work for the general masses, but highly-likely not on people like @jcase or other Android security-gurus. Since I linked you, I'd be very happy if you could expand on that a little. I am sure such companies might even have the possibility of messing with the baseband of a target phone through only knowing the phone number of a target. But I am really curious what their "standard procedure" is if they face a target with thorough Android knowledge, maybe even a security-enthusiastic Android developer. Wouldn't their only option be to manually manipulate the handset?

There are two methods to keep away all kinds of trojan and malware...
1. use a SIM with data connections only: There are SIM cards on the marked you can use in a USB Stick for Notebooks or tablets.
You won't have a cell phone number and can't receive SMS. You won't be able to use the circuit switched (GSM & UMTS-cs) part of your cell phone. For communication you have to use a VoIP provider - with Secure SIP and SRTP.
2. Web browser, Apps, e-mail client and all other connection must be use VPN.
But there is one more stepp to take.
The virtualization of all services and Apps you are using. This works like Team Viewer on a PC. The App is running on a cloud server while you only see the desktop of the remote controlled application. This technique is already used when you want to use flash with iOS device (photon, cloudbrowse, puffin and so on..)
More details about this you can find here: http://itwatch.info/Products/ReCAppS
But i am sure there are more projects about this out there...

He3556 said:
There are two methods to keep away all kinds of trojan and malware...
1. use a SIM with data connections only: There are SIM cards on the marked you can use in a USB Stick for Notebooks or tablets.
You won't have a cell phone number and can't receive SMS. You won't be able to use the circuit switched (GSM & UMTS-cs) part of your cell phone. For communication you have to use a VoIP provider - with Secure SIP and SRTP.
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I know this works, but the only guy who is so insane and is already doing that is probably @InvaderX.
Honestly, what's the purpose of a phone if I can't receive SMS and call anyone without internet connection?
He3556 said:
2. Web browser, Apps, e-mail client and all other connection must be use VPN.
But there is one more stepp to take.
The virtualization of all services and Apps you are using. This works like Team Viewer on a PC. The App is running on a cloud server while you only see the desktop of the remote controlled application. This technique is already used when you want to use flash with iOS device (photon, cloudbrowse, puffin and so on..)
More details about this you can find here: http://itwatch.info/Products/ReCAppS
But i am sure there are more projects about this out there...
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Click to collapse
Better yet: Living under a rock should solve all these problems. Seriously though, can such law enforcement agencies silently update stuff on my phone (possibly baseband) that goes unnoticed even when using TitaniumBackup and flashing a fresh ROM every month? From the things you mentioned as for protection, I highly doubt that I'll move that way. And no matter how hard I try, the bad guys (or, to put it in the wording of those companies: the agencies that are "protecting our freedom") will likely always find a way in - even if that means tapping the phone through listining in on my calls or deploying an IMSI-Catcher. But talking about this makes me wonder: It seems as if the probability is high that most of the time they are selling a fake update to the target. Is there a convenient way of knowing that stuff like FinSpy Mobile has been installed, where such agencies can't possibly tinker with any records of what was happening on the phone? I especially check the Trust - Event Logger by @Dark3n very often. Could they change such records? Is there a better App to warn about unauthorizes access or (hidden) App installation?

Trust is not a security app!
If an attacker has root, you can just alter the database of apps like Trust, which would be the easiest way.
There are probably also ways to alter the system so it does not broadcast certain events(which is how Trust monitors most things).
It is just not build to withstand such attacks.
SecUpwN said:
Seriously though, can such law enforcement agencies silently update stuff on my phone (possibly baseband) that goes unnoticed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe? But there are much easier ways if it is not desired to target specific persons.
I'll brain storm a bit for you:
I would divide the attack vectors into those that work with root and those that don't.
Without root apps can still do plenty of malicious actions, including tracking your position or uploading all files on your sdcard (INTERNET;SDCARD;LOCATION permissions) etc.
If an attacker gains root permission he could install rootkits, modify existing apps, inject malicious code into dex files of installed apps etc.
Basicly do what the hell he wants.
While not using a rooted device would certainly make it more difficult to do malicious things, it's doesn't prevent it.
A normal app you install could still root your phone through vulnerabilities. It works the same way apps such as TowelRoot or ZergRush root your phone.
Downloading new apps that request root is also very dangerous ofc, once you pressed "grant", it's too late, anything could have been done. So be wary when trying out new root apps of devs you don't know/trust?
Abusing trust in existing apps is probably the biggest danger.
The most obvious danger here is downloading apps you usually trust but from unknown sources.
Sure there could be signature issues when updating over your current app, but what if you don't have it installed? I could also think about a few ways to inject malicious code without altering the signature (did not try, just a thought, might be impossible).
The issue is that you probably wouldn't even notice, as the compromised app retains it's original functionality.
Want a botnet?
Inject malicious code into a popular root up that is paid, crack it and upload it somewhere.
While this more dangerous (or worth for an attacker) with root apps, it's still viable for non root apps, just pick one that already aquires many permissions.
It's way too easy, people constantly underestimate the danger of this. It's not all about piracy it's bad, it's a barn door sized security hole.
A bit more difficult variant would be abusing known security holes in existing apps that can be root or nonroot apps, such as modifying files the other apps uses, such that it executes your malicious code for you, so some type of code injection. First thought would be looking for root apps that use scripts or binary files and then check the permissions on those files to see whether they are writeable.
Now those are all ways to target a broad mass of users.
If a single user is the target, it would be more difficult, but there are still plenty of options:
- MITM attacks at public hotspots,
- Pressuring developers of apps you use. What dev wouldn't implement a security hole into an app of his, if a guy in a black suit comes up and points a gun to his head? Well that escalated quickly... But with "secret courts" and all the **** that happens secretly sanctioned or is just done by some agencies because they are above the law, is it really such an impossible scenario? The ends justify the means? Do they?
- My favorite plan yet, making a popular app themselves that they know you will try
It is usually never impossible, just a matter of resources and whether its unfeasible to spend so many resources on that goal.
edit: So the best course of action? Don't install anything you don't trust. Don't trust the manufactor either? Install a custom ROM, but as those often use binary blobs for certain parts of the software, it's not really a 100% solution... There could also be compromising hardware built in, but now I'm really climing up the tinfoil tree, but as recents new story suggest that the NSA is intercepting hardware packets from manufactors such as cisco to modify them, what's really impossible?
TL;DR Best course of action that is feasible to adhere to is probably to just not install stuff one doesn't know or trust.
edit2: More specific answers to your questions.
You might be able to monitor files changes on an a system level, but if your attacker gains highlevel priviledges, what keeps him from changing the monitoring system?
SecUpwN said:
Seriously though, can such law enforcement agencies silently update stuff on my phone (possibly baseband) that goes unnoticed even when using TitaniumBackup and flashing a fresh ROM every month?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does TiBu help prevent such injection? Flashing a new ROM would probably undo such changes, but what prevents "them" from just doing it again.
SecUpwN said:
And no matter how hard I try, the bad guys (or, to put it in the wording of those companies: the agencies that are "protecting our freedom") will likely always find a way in - even if that means tapping the phone through listining in on my calls or deploying an IMSI-Catcher.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the thing, with enough resources, there is always a way.
SecUpwN said:
It seems as if the probability is high that most of the time they are selling a fake update to the target.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly disguising as something legit is the cheapest way, "trojan horse".
SecUpwN said:
Is there a convenient way of knowing that stuff like FinSpy Mobile has been installed, where such agencies can't possibly tinker with any records of what was happening on the phone? I especially check the Trust - Event Logger by @Dark3n very often. Could they change such records? Is there a better App to warn about unauthorizes access or (hidden) App installation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know any surefire way to detect this. The issue is that with enough priviledges (which can be gained without authorization, zero day exploits are worth a lot money to "agencies" as well as criminal organisations, though I'm no longer sure where the difference is), you can just clean up your track of malicious behavior.

Whoa, this has to be the longest answer I've received since registering here. Huge thanks! Grab a coffee..
Dark3n said:
Trust is not a security app!
If an attacker has root, you can just alter the database of apps like Trust, which would be the easiest way.
There are probably also ways to alter the system so it does not broadcast certain events(which is how Trust monitors most things).
It is just not build to withstand such attacks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, fair. Will keep it anyhow.
Dark3n said:
Maybe? But there are much easier ways if it is not desired to target specific persons.
I'll brain storm a bit for you:
I would divide the attack vectors into those that work with root and those that don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to mention it here: An awesome site to see which attack vectors and vulnerabilities exist is Smartphone Attack Vektor by @He3556.
Dark3n said:
Without root apps can still do plenty of malicious actions, including tracking your position or uploading all files on your sdcard (INTERNET;SDCARD;LOCATION permissions) etc.
If an attacker gains root permission he could install rootkits, modify existing apps, inject malicious code into dex files of installed apps etc.
Basicly do what the hell he wants.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I get the point. Also like @jcase already pointed out: If we root, we pwn ourselves. And if we don't, too.
Dark3n said:
While not using a rooted device would certainly make it more difficult to do malicious things, it's doesn't prevent it.
A normal app you install could still root your phone through vulnerabilities. It works the same way apps such as TowelRoot or ZergRush root your phone.
Downloading new apps that request root is also very dangerous ofc, once you pressed "grant", it's too late, anything could have been done. So be wary when trying out new root apps of devs you don't know/trust?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only install trusted Applications.
Dark3n said:
Abusing trust in existing apps is probably the biggest danger.
The most obvious danger here is downloading apps you usually trust but from unknown sources.
Sure there could be signature issues when updating over your current app, but what if you don't have it installed? I could also think about a few ways to inject malicious code without altering the signature (did not try, just a thought, might be impossible).
The issue is that you probably wouldn't even notice, as the compromised app retains it's original functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guess if I use the F-Droid Store I should be pretty safe, right? But don't worry, I don't rely on it - as for me, smartphones are huge bugs with touchscreens. That is why I also built a phone signal blocking pouch for myself and friends. Further good recommendations can be found on the bottom of my GitHub.
Dark3n said:
Want a botnet?
Inject malicious code into a popular root up that is paid, crack it and upload it somewhere.
While this more dangerous (or worth for an attacker) with root apps, it's still viable for non root apps, just pick one that already aquires many permissions.
It's way too easy, people constantly underestimate the danger of this. It's not all about piracy it's bad, it's a barn door sized security hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, no. I already have two or three. Or maybe even four?
Dark3n said:
A bit more difficult variant would be abusing known security holes in existing apps that can be root or nonroot apps, such as modifying files the other apps uses, such that it executes your malicious code for you, so some type of code injection. First thought would be looking for root apps that use scripts or binary files and then check the permissions on those files to see whether they are writeable.
Now those are all ways to target a broad mass of users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know we've come to an end here. Reading all this makes me want to throw my phone out of the window.
Dark3n said:
If a single user is the target, it would be more difficult, but there are still plenty of options:
- MITM attacks at public hotspots,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I DON'T use public hotspots. Why? Because you can be almost certain that stuff will be logged and analyzed once you use that. Over here in my town, we've got a HUGE Apple Store. And guess what - FREE WIFI for everyone! Yeyyy... not.
- Pressuring developers of apps you use. What dev wouldn't implement a security hole into an app of his, if a guy in a black suit comes up and points a gun to his head? Well that escalated quickly... But with "secret courts" and all the **** that happens secretly sanctioned or is just done by some agencies because they are above the law, is it really such an impossible scenario? The ends justify the means? Do they?
You are right, threats against family, friends and relatives are a no-go. If I remember correctly, something similar had happened to my beloved XDA developer @idcrisis who invented CrossBreeder. He left development of his toolset because starnge things occured in his life which he linked to his development. Shortly after leaving his project, he proposed a new license: The Aware License. Hope this guy is still living a happy life, though. Added to the above security-issues: Trust NOONE! How come? Well, just read this stunning story I discovered yesterday where a US critical infrastructure company last year revealed that its star developer had outsourced his own job to a Chinese subcontractor and was spending all his work time playing around on the internet adn surfing cat videos. ^^
Dark3n said:
- My favorite plan yet, making a popular app themselves that they know you will try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't quite get what you meanb by that. Please clarify, it sounds interesting.
Dark3n said:
It is usually never impossible, just a matter of resources and whether its unfeasible to spend so many resources on that goal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way I see it: The only thing that we have no real access to, is the baseband. I am sure that these are full of backdoors and switches for agencies that they just need to trigger - just like the Samsung Galaxy Backdoor discovered by Replicant.
Dark3n said:
edit: So the best course of action? Don't install anything you don't trust. Don't trust the manufactor either? Install a custom ROM, but as those often use binary blobs for certain parts of the software, it's not really a 100% solution...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, I don't trust the manufacturer either. And I am SICK of bloatware! hence, I am a happy user of AOKP since several years - but regarding the binary blobs, I would certainly love to try out Replicant (sadly not yet available for the HTC One).
Dark3n said:
There could also be compromising hardware built in, but now I'm really climing up the tinfoil tree, but as recents new story suggest that the NSA is intercepting hardware packets from manufactors such as cisco to modify them, what's really impossible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing is impossible, everything can be done. A wise man once said: Everything you can imagine, will happen.
Dark3n said:
TL;DR Best course of action that is feasible to adhere to is probably to just not install stuff one doesn't know or trust.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good advice, I already do follow that one. As already said, if I were a spy company, I'd just team up with manufacturers of basebands..
Dark3n said:
You might be able to monitor files changes on an a system level, but if your attacker gains highlevel priviledges, what keeps him from changing the monitoring system?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Highly-likely nothing. I already know that there is not much I can do to prevent them to get in, but at least I do want to detect them - and having such a detection mechanism raises the bar in disguising their actions even further - and who knows, maybe they're not interested anymore then?
Dark3n said:
How does TiBu help prevent such injection? Flashing a new ROM would probably undo such changes, but what prevents "them" from just doing it again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not much.
Dark3n said:
This is the thing, with enough resources, there is always a way.
Exactly disguising as something legit is the cheapest way, "trojan horse".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right. But what I am really curious of: How do people from the security-community really protect their phones? Do you have friends that are using their phones to just communicate via VPN and VOIP, not sending SMS and never calling people? Perfect place for @InvaderX to chime in, he told me before to really do a combination of that approach.
Dark3n said:
I don't know any surefire way to detect this. The issue is that with enough priviledges (which can be gained without authorization, zero day exploits are worth a lot money to "agencies" as well as criminal organisations, though I'm no longer sure where the difference is), you can just clean up your track of malicious behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh.. mobile phones are a total threat to humanity, I get it..

At least I am not the only one paranoid about this kind of thing. LOL

lostangelintx said:
At least I am not the only one paranoid about this kind of thing. LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't have much to do with "Paranoia". The very reason you started to care about this, is because phones are in fact very insecure devices - most people just don't realize or care about it. Another very interesting thread I found lately: Android Security for Conscious Mind.

a tool against 0-day exploits
don't freak out to early - this tool is only for windows desktops.
But at least it shows how it could work for mobile devices, too.
It is called Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit (EMET 5.0) ...is a utility that helps prevent vulnerabilities in software from being successfully exploited.
These technologies function as special protections and obstacles that an exploit author must defeat to exploit software vulnerabilities. These security mitigation technologies do not guarantee that vulnerabilities cannot be exploited. However, they work to make exploitation as difficult as possible to perform.
SSL/TLS certificate pinning - This feature is intended to detect (and stop, with EMET 5.0) man-in-the-middle attacks that are leveraging the public key infrastructure (PKI).
Ok, they do not guarantee 100% security - but who could? Even this software comes from Microsoft, it's still a good solution and closes the gap between anti-virus, firewall and keeping your software updated.
Here is a test from 2010 (EMET 2.0) http://www.rationallyparanoid.com/articles/emet-testing.html
And one of 2014 http://www.offensive-security.com/vulndev/disarming-enhanced-mitigation-experience-toolkit-emet/
Does anybody know a APP for Android, iOS, WP8 or BB?

Just a small side note:
In regard to device security vs. rooting.
There are essentially 2 schools of thought. On the one side we have those who believe we should trust the device manufacturers experience and knowledge to keep malware out of AOS, and you phone from spilling your data when stolen, which also means keeping users from rooting their devices, simply because they know security better, than the average user. (I think @jcase may be one of those, but he'd have to answer for himself.) On the other hand we have people like me, who firmly believe that the best way to keep your device secure is by being rooted, since we cannot trust anyone, especially large companies who scream "TRUST US". For us, we own the device and everything it does, and that your phone should not be able to send a single photon of radiation, without your permission. Then at least we have the choice to provide our own security by Firewalls, open source baseband, and encrypted phone calls etc. So no, this is not part of the majority of phone owners. But we think it should be. So who's right? Well, we're both right of course. What we need is to be able to make this choice at the time of purchase, and independent of the device you like. To be able to choose if you have a fully open device that you can secure on your own or if you like one that is claimed as secure, but you will never be able to check or control on your own. But unfortunately, this is not possible in most circumstances.

I trust neither the ODMs, nor the custom roms. However I KNOW the average custom rom is just as if not MORE vulnerable than current stock roms, add su into the mix and it is without a doubt more vulnerable. Show me a custom rom dev that claims he ships a secure firmware, and I'll show you someone ignorant of the facts. Ask most of them what CTS is, and they will look at you like you are referencing 18th century medical terms.
That is my stance. In regards to root making a device more vulnerable, I can back that statement time and time again. From key compromises of the superuser apps, to vulnerabilities in the app, to vulns in the su binaries, to vulns in apps that typical make su requests, to stupid users who will grant it to anyone. Having any access point to "root" makes turning a small vuln to a complete compromise relatively easy.
E:V:A said:
Just a small side note:
In regard to device security vs. rooting.
There are essentially 2 schools of thought. On the one side we have those who believe we should trust the device manufacturers experience and knowledge to keep malware out of AOS, and you phone from spilling your data when stolen, which also means keeping users from rooting their devices, simply because they know security better, than the average user. (I think @jcase may be one of those, but he'd have to answer for himself.) On the other hand we have people like me, who firmly believe that the best way to keep your device secure is by being rooted, since we cannot trust anyone, especially large companies who scream "TRUST US". For us, we own the device and everything it does, and that your phone should not be able to send a single photon of radiation, without your permission. Then at least we have the choice to provide our own security by Firewalls, open source baseband, and encrypted phone calls etc. So no, this is not part of the majority of phone owners. But we think it should be. So who's right? Well, we're both right of course. What we need is to be able to make this choice at the time of purchase, and independent of the device you like. To be able to choose if you have a fully open device that you can secure on your own or if you like one that is claimed as secure, but you will never be able to check or control on your own. But unfortunately, this is not possible in most circumstances.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

@jcase : So I think we agree on that what you say, but from another perspective, we can ask ourselves whether or not a stupid user with root, can possibly endanger a smart user with root? I think this is not generally possible, apart from some automated DDOS attack, which would ultimately originate from a smart user with root, using the stupid user as a transport.
To what extent should ODM's be able to decide who is a smart root user and stupid root user? (And regardless their decision, why should we believe them?) There may not be an answer here, but the discussion is interesting also from a political point of view. How much should the "government" be responsible for a certain individual's action, regardless of their intelligence? Personally I think they're not, and should only provide security to prevent individuals from directly hurting each other, and not preventing them from hurting themselves, if they choose to do so.

Reading all this, it makes me wonder if the antivirus apps help at all..

stefeman said:
Reading all this, it makes me wonder if the antivirus apps help at all..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's put it this way.
In 6 years of heavy 24/7 PC use, my anti-virus have prevented me from a "possible" remote exploit exactly once, while having annoyed me with lengthy uninterruptible scans and ignoring my ignore settings about a 1000 times, due to adware and various other false positives. Then only god knows how many different countries governments are already present in my PC. Go figure. And yes, I have tweaked every possible setting and tried multiple well know AV's.
Forget AV's and get a good FW and with a well tuned host file, and well tuned common sense.

E:V:A said:
@jcase : So I think we agree on that what you say, but from another perspective, we can ask ourselves whether or not a stupid user with root, can possibly endanger a smart user with root? I think this is not generally possible, apart from some automated DDOS attack, which would ultimately originate from a smart user with root, using the stupid user as a transport.
To what extent should ODM's be able to decide who is a smart root user and stupid root user? (And regardless their decision, why should we believe them?) There may not be an answer here, but the discussion is interesting also from a political point of view. How much should the "government" be responsible for a certain individual's action, regardless of their intelligence? Personally I think they're not, and should only provide security to prevent individuals from directly hurting each other, and not preventing them from hurting themselves, if they choose to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, I dont want to do this again, this conversation.
Most stupid people don't realize they are stupid, they assume they are smart. (We are all stupid in some regards).
I think I could endanger a user from root, pretty sure I can either screw the phone up, or possibly catch it on fire. If it had a sim in it, and was on the network I am certain I could make them regret ever rooting their device.
Here is a question, how many of you understand how these unlocks/exploits work?
I sometimes leave messages hidden in mine, and have only had ONE person reply to the hidden message, out of 100,000s of runs. People don't even know what they are running to gain root, let alone any idea what these "rom devs" do.
Open source is the answer right? Everyone can read the code, and everyone does! Thats why no backdoors or vulns have ever been in open source projects. Every open source project gets a line by line audit by a team of security professionals.</sarcasm>
I'll join back in when someone shows me a custom rom/open device that has the same or better security precautions taken by leading ODMs. Until then, it is generally just as easy or (generally) easier to abuse and exploit one of these custom roms floating around.

stefeman said:
Reading all this, it makes me wonder if the antivirus apps help at all..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Won't help a lick for anything originating from a government.

[SECURITY] Android Security for Conscious Mind

== THREAD PURPOSE ==
I'm opening this thread to share and learn ideas about privacy solutions, please respect the purpose and keep this thread clean. My main language isn't English so if you spot errors or omissions please PM to me so I can correct them. Thank you.
All trolling or demotivating posts, disbelieving about privacy concerns or defending Google honor will be reported for cleaning.
== PROBLEM, HYPOTHESIS, TESTS, CONCLUSION ==
For years I've been very annoyed about privacy abuse on Internet and since Snowden and Assange revelations my concerns raised. I'm sure my personal and professional life is common and boring but I want privacy with my things just like I don't want a guy next table in the coffee shop listening to my talking subjects.
My first decision was to deploy a personal server, in my home, with OwnCloud. All went fine for some months until I realized the pain it was maintaining the system working, from server attacks and system fails to energy bills nothing could justify such paranoia. The OwnCloud Android client was also very bad those days.
The second idea was hosting OwnCloud and mail services on a private host, but this didn't made any sense because data wasn't encrypted and every employee could easily see my thermonuclear projects and my banana pancakes secret recipes. It was also a paid solution for nothing.
Finally I thought "If you're using German services you should be fine, Germany privacy data laws are the toughest in the world (even better than Swiss in this matter)". I'm in Europe so using European services was a no brainier decision, preferably in Germany and owned by German companies. Yes, I know you can't trust anyone but even so I think it's a well balanced solution.
== SERVICES ==
These are my services right now, share yours and try to justify why they're equal or even better. This list will be changed as needed:
Mail - GMX (Germany)
- Generally I really don't like 1&1 services but GMX is really good and working only on European servers. I advise you to don't use their other service, mail.com, because this one use USA servers. Unfortunately all other free German providers have low storage space. If you're willing to pay for privacy try Dutch StartMail but it's beta at the moment.
Contacts & calendar - fruux (Germany)
- Amazing services, great philosophy. For privacy and decentralization purposes I've opt for don't have this services on my mail provider. Unfortunately their servers are on Amazon Ireland, but I believe fruux have implemented cryptographic code on their system.
Cloud - HiDrive (Germany)
- I NEVER upload sensitive information to the cloud, even encrypted (remember Heartbleed and AES backdoor theory?). I was using Wuala for years but gave up after have been acquired by LaCie (USA). Tresorit shouldn't be trusted either, they're using Microsoft Azure servers, each uploaded and shared link pass through USA. Mega is darkness, I don't like the smell of it.
Apps - F-Droid (UK/France)
- FOSS is the way you should go, F-Droid is the obvious choice. F-Droid client was forked from Aptoide's source code.
Aptoide (Portugal) it's good but not consensual. Recently they're processing Google with Antitrust Complaint in EU proving they're concerned. You can only trust Aptoide IF you choose to install apps from their main centralized store (the default one, be ware and don't trust any other user store). http://m.aptoide.com/about
If you can't find what you're looking for then you can use Blank Store or Opera Mobile Store. Never choose Amazon Appstore, apps installed from there have proprietary code inserted.
Search engines - DuckDuckGo (USA!)
- Technically DuckDuckGo is a meta-search engine. It's amazingly good and you have lots of options to choose (did you know you can directly search images from Google if you search !gi [image you're searching for]?).
Another great alternative is Startpage (Netherlands).
== ANDROID SYSTEM ==
My Android system:
- CyanogenMod + freecyngn + NOGAPPS + SuperSU
- TWRP recovery
- Hardening Android for Security and Privacy
== APPS ==
My essential apps are:
Apps client - F-Droid (FOSS)
- See services above.
Privacy and cleaning - AdAway and AFWall+ (both OSS)
- Obvious choices on each privacy concerned system. Block almost everything, trust no one.
Android browser - Boat (proprietary code)
- I just love the options, specs, interface and speed. I know this choice will be highly controversial for some because it's a Chinese made browser, but isn't a cloud browser (like the also Chinese Maxthon) and it's really easy to firewall it from calling home (something somehow difficult with Dolphin). The obvious FOSS choice for almost everyone would be Firefox but I really hate their Android app and I have some bad thoughts about their Google connections. The FOSS best shot would be Tint or Lightning, but they're rather limited and AOSP it's even worse. Chrome it's obviously excluded for privacy sake.
Boat devs also used to be active on Xda with many supporters. For security precautions block port range 192.241.158.0/24 and 211.151.0.0/24.
Email app - K-9 (FOSS)
- The oldest, most forked and trusted email client. Needs a deep design/interface Overhaulin' (hey, Chip Foose...)
Contacts and calendar sync - Fruux + Birthday Adapter (FOSS)
- See services above.
Password & confidential safe - KeePassDroid (FOSS)
- Believe me, I don't know a single password of my accounts and I have hundreds. The only really big and complex password I know is the one from KeePass.
Antivirus - NONE, JUST DON'T
- I will not discuss here about the needs or true benefits of these apps but I can assure your data is leaking each time you go online. All them claim about privacy but they're always collecting "unidentifiable data".
== I will post links for everything soon. Please include links in your posts when justified. Thanks. ==

== Android Alternative FOSS ==
This is a list of some well known apps and their open source alternatives. Incredibly some of them are even better than "official" or paid apps, some others are quite limited but evolving and much secure.
It's impossible to put everything here, only the best apps I've tried with success will be listed. Please keep posting your suggestions.
BitTorrent Sync > Syncthing
Chrome > Firefox
Dolphin > Tint Browser
Dropbox > OwnCloud, Seafile
Facebook > Tinfoil for Facebook
Gmail > k-9 Mail
Lux Auto Brightness > YAAB
Tasker > SwiP
Titanium Backup > oandbackup
Twitter > Twidere

Reserved, just in case.

Really great thread sancho_panzer. I never thought someone can be as paranoid as I am, but I found you.
I'd like to add a few services:
Posteo (Mail):
A german email provider that doesn't claim as much data aa most of them do. It just needs your mail, pw of course and you can add your mobile phone number if you like to (it will be saved hashed in their database). Posteo has great SSL connections and uses a the first (german) provider the new protocol DANE as well as DNSSEC. You can use their CalDav and CardDav server and choose to encrypt your address book and your calendar. The service costs 1€ per month (10 cents for additional aliases and 20ct for the next gig), that can be paid by post mail, PayPal or bank transfer. The last two way won't get linked to your account.
CalDav/CardDav
To manage my addressbook and calendar on multiple devices I use aCal from F-Droid.
For googling issues there is a browser add on for PCs that tunnels the Google searchs for you called disconnect.me
Greetz, and i appreciate your love to FOSS very much!

@traceless There are lots of people on Xda concerned about privacy on Android and the Internet. I really hope this thread could help them to take some measures about it and share alternatives.
Thank you for https://posteo.de/ suggestion. Could be a great service problem is I don't speak German. I really don't understand why the website don't have an English version. I'm also concerned with recent leaks news about *.de domains ( http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-25825784 ).
I've tried CalDav-sync and CardDav-sync and they're great little apps, but if you want a FOSS solution try DAVdroid and the very new Flock from F-Droid.
I really can't trust https://disconnect.me/ . ( http://www.darkreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=1251070& ) or Ghostery, both track you ( http://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1qkc2b/disconnect_vs_ghostery/ ). If you're using Firefox on PC or Android my advice is to install Adblock Edge (Adblock Plus is worse and heavy) + Self-Destructing Cookies (BetterPrivacy is also great) + NoScript. You should also consider CleanQuit.

@sancho_panzer
I knew, that Disconnect was founded by a former Google employee but didn't know he was linked to the NSA. Anyway my current FF configuration looks just as you recommended, but I additionally installed a plugin that's called FireGloves. This is especially useful if you want to make fingerprinting your browser harder. It disables or disguises trackable settings; if you'd like to every browsing session. How unique ones configuration is, can be seen here at Panopticlick.
I agree, that it's a pity some services aren't available in the most common languages. Posteo's webmailer can be changed to English, but the whole service is German. Btw you don't have to be worried about the de ccTLD, the 16m mail that were compromised earlier this year were most likely taken due a hack of a german online shop and as the most customers were germans, the majority of the mails end up with *.de. So it doesn't mean every german domain is compromised and mail provider are insecure.
As you don't speak german you could take a look at Secure-Mail, a mail service provided by the mainly german VPN Perfect Privacy. It hosts in NL and supposes to store no identifiable data and is also encrypted. I found no setting to change the language to english on Secure-mail, but I thought I've seen it once in english, maybe it canges only if your country is english-speaking.
Flock is really nice, but I stay with aCal, cause it comes with a calender other than the integrated one and I'm not dependent on the built-in one with the (also switchable) Googl sync.

Excellent thread, thank you for starting it.
Edit : I think HTTPS Everywhere by the EFF should be mentioned in a thread like this.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere

sancho_panzer said:
I'm sure my personal and professional life is common and boring but I want privacy with my things just like I don't want a guy next table in the coffee shop listening to my talking subjects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter if you think you life is important enough to be watched or if it's just boring. The fact that you know you *could* be watched in every move you make, automatically changes your behaviour. It changes the way you think, it changes the way you speak and write. It influences the way you interact with others. Feeling watched makes you fear of what you do!
Opening a thread like this is a good thing to begin to overcome this fear. :good:

Good linux expert, my colleague, told me some finding, android wise.....
He has installed Android Firewall, and blocked every possible application and system modules, including kernel.
In apk log, found that all ip packets sent by android kernel are routed through some chinese ip address, regardless of theirs final destination.
After some research, turned out that this IP is used by NSA. Yes, all ip packets going out of our android phone are sniffed by NSA. Embedded in kernel.
My 2 cents here, and sorry if ot.
Cheers!
Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Nice thread, thanks! :good:
Some thoughts from my side:
I generally distrust every online service, especially if I don't pay for them. I think it is better to decentralise services and host them on self managed servers in families, groups of friends,... and thus basically only give data to trusted persons you know in real life.
Here are two good links that show alternatives to proprietary software/cloud services:
https://prism-break.org/en/
https://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/LeavingTheCloud
== SERVICES ==
Mail -
I think mails are generally difficult to self-host. So you need a good mail service. Posteo was mentioned here, another similar reliable german mail provider (with english translation) is mailbox.org. They even encrypt unencrypted incoming mails with your PGP-key before they store them.
Contacts & calendar -
Posteo and mail.org also include contact and calendar synchronisation via CalDav/CardDav. Even better: Host it by yourself.
Instant Messaging -
XMPP (Jabber) is an open decentralised protocol with lots of implementations for almost every platform. You can host it by yourself or use an existing server. There are also very good clients for Android like Conversations or Xabber
== ANDROID SYSTEM ==
Two additions:
Free Your Android! - campaign of the Free Software Foundation Europe
IMSI Catcher/Spy Detector
== APPS ==
sancho_panzer said:
Android browser - Boat (proprietary code)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't do this! Firefox for Android is also a good choice. And Orweb not to forget!
traceless said:
I use aCal from F-Droid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DAVdroid is also a very good FOSS CalDav/CardDav-provider that integrates with the contacts/calendar app of android. And it is under active development (in contrast to aCal)

I can only agree that using posteo.de is a must. Completely anonymous. I put cash in an envelop (didn't actually touch any of it myself ) and they opened my account no problem. Last time I checked their site alao had an English version. Feel free to pm me with translation issues. I speak both languages fluently. Also a thread like this without XPrivacy?
For those interested in tor along with afwall, I have posted instructions on getting them to work together in the afwall thread

I prefer the Android system to be: OMNI + NOGAPPS + SuperSU
Note that freecyngn & NOGAPPS author has switched to OMNI

Regarding OwnCloud: it's a great software, but you're right not to trust it when it runs on some server that is not under your control. That's why I run OwnCloud on a Raspberry Pi that is running at my home, behind my firewall. Syncing is made with CardDAV and CalDAV, and both apps use SSL. I think I can trust that one.

dvdram said:
Regarding OwnCloud: it's a great software, but you're right not to trust is when it runs on some server that is not under your control. That's why I run OwnCloud on a Raspberry Pi that is running at my home, behind my firewall. Syncing is made with CardDAV and CalDAV, and both apps use SSL. I think I can trust that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what connection are you using? I thought about exactly the same solution, but it's nearly useless with ADSL.. (6 MBit/s down and just 60kbits upstream)

Thank you guys for your contribution on this thread.
Ultramanoid said:
I think HTTPS Everywhere by the EFF should be mentioned in a thread like this.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@Ultramanoid You're absolutely right I forgot to mention it, I use it with Firefox on my laptop and it's great.
dvdram said:
Opening a thread like this is a good thing to begin to overcome this fear. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@dvdram I agree and don't understand why so much people just don't care to talk about it.
jukyO said:
Good linux expert, my colleague, told me some finding, android wise.....
He has installed Android Firewall, and blocked every possible application and system modules, including kernel.
In apk log, found that all ip packets sent by android kernel are routed through some chinese ip address, regardless of theirs final destination.
After some research, turned out that this IP is used by NSA. Yes, all ip packets going out of our android phone are sniffed by NSA. Embedded in kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@jukyO Lookout, the real test here should be made on a clean system, just ROM and a Firewall. That's the only way you can say it's kernel coded. Some apps use kernel to send and receive packets, your alert could be related to one of these.
Another debatable subject should be SElinux. Many ROMs, like CyanogenMod, have it in enforcing mode by default. If you install another kernel, like Alucard, SElinux become permissive. Even if SElinux is considered OS we all should not forget that was developed and implemented by NSA (!).
bastei said:
Here are two good links that show alternatives to proprietary software/cloud services:
https://prism-break.org/en/
https://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/LeavingTheCloud
== SERVICES ==
Mail -
I think mails are generally difficult to self-host. So you need a good mail service. Posteo was mentioned here, another similar reliable german mail provider (with english translation) is mailbox.org. They even encrypt unencrypted incoming mails with your PGP-key before they store them.
Contacts & calendar -
Posteo and mail.org also include contact and calendar synchronisation via CalDav/CardDav. Even better: Host it by yourself.
Instant Messaging -
XMPP (Jabber) is an open decentralised protocol with lots of implementations for almost every platform. You can host it by yourself or use an existing server. There are also very good clients for Android like Conversations or Xabber
== ANDROID SYSTEM ==
Two additions:
Free Your Android! - campaign of the Free Software Foundation Europe
IMSI Catcher/Spy Detector
== APPS ==
Don't do this! Firefox for Android is also a good choice. And Orweb not to forget!
DAVdroid is also a very good FOSS CalDav/CardDav-provider that integrates with the contacts/calendar app of android. And it is under active development (in contrast to aCal)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@bastei Thanks for your useful input. I know Boat would be controversial talk but if you read my comments you'll see I'm aware about the dangers of such decision. Even so I'm convinced about the safety of it.
Firefox is my primary choice on my laptops since the earlier version 3. Even if I tried alternatives on some occasions I've always returned to Firefox security and true development power (I always use it to analyse code and test all websites I make), the only real alternative was Opera (the original one with Presto engine, not the crap they use these days).
Android Firefox is a completely different beast. It's heavy, buggy, need extras for simple tasks like automatic close and clean or user agent changing, but above all WHY THE HELL CAN'T WE MAKE FOLDERS and organise favorites at will? The only solution I found for favourites was to sync them with my PC, organise all there and sync them back. Did I mentioned the ridiculous times it FC? Maybe in the future, right now the only FOSS I could consider is Tint Browser.
an0n981 said:
Also a thread like this without XPrivacy?
For those interested in tor along with afwall, I have posted instructions on getting them to work together in the afwall thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@an0n981 XPrivacy and Xposed could be all we need IF they were OSS. The other problem are the inevitable lags introduced by these layers.
I've tested several configurations on my phones and tablets over the time but ultimately my OP describes my options at this moment. This subject isn't closed and will never be, there aren't perfect security systems, and that's the purpose of this thread, I'm sure the OP will be changed on some occasions. Please keep suggesting alternatives and solutions, your contribution will be greatly appreciated.
aelmahmoudy said:
I prefer the Android system to be: OMNI + NOGAPPS + SuperSU
Note that freecyngn & NOGAPPS author has switched to OMNI
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@aelmahmoudy OMNI is a valid CM alternative, developed and maintained by well know Xda developers. Unfortunately I don't really like the excessive cleanliness and limitations. The only way I could advise it would be complemented with Xposed+XPrivacy+GravityBox, besides NOGAPPS and SuperSU.
I can't talk for them but I believe @MaR-V-iN and many other ditched CM after the group became comercial oriented, the inclusion of analytical and proprietary code didn't helped either. CM it's still the base for lots of ROMs and I'm still convinced it's the best for me, provided that are VM snapshots and thoroughly cleaned and modded like mentioned on my OP.

sancho_panzer said:
...
@an0n981 XPrivacy and Xposed could be all we need IF they were OSS. The other problem are the inevitable lags introduced by these layers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both are 100% open source, just not distributed through F-Droid. You can compile them yourself, source is on GitHub. Security software will always add some lag.

an0n981 said:
Both are 100% open source, just not distributed through F-Droid. You can compile them yourself, source is on GitHub. Security software will always add some lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right, my mistake. Still when I used them my system felt somehow lagging.

:delete:
err on the side of kindness

traceless said:
And what connection are you using? I thought about exactly the same solution, but it's nearly useless with ADSL.. (6 MBit/s down and just 60kbits upstream)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I admit I have a bit more speed than you, but it depends on what you want to use OwnCloud for. I use it only for syncing calendars and contacts, and for that few bits of information even your speed is more than enough, although you should consider to do the first time syncing over WiFi. Later, when you add contacts and calendar entries, you won't notice much disadvantage.
Of course, if you want to sync pictures and movies, that speed will not be enough. But do you really need that? Is it not much more efficient to copy pictures and photos via USB cable, when you're at home? Do you really need to sync them while on the road?
That is what you need to ask yourself. Like I said: contacts and meetings are very small pieces of information, less than a text message. A 60k download (from your phone's point of view) is more than enough for that.

dvdram said:
I admit I have a bit more speed than you, but it depends on what you want to use OwnCloud for. I use it only for syncing calendars and contacts, and for that few bits of information even your speed is more than enough, although you should consider to do the first time syncing over WiFi. Later, when you add contacts and calendar entries, you won't notice much disadvantage.
Of course, if you want to sync pictures and movies, that speed will not be enough. But do you really need that? Is it not much more efficient to copy pictures and photos via USB cable, when you're at home? Do you really need to sync them while on the road?
That is what you need to ask yourself. Like I said: contacts and meetings are very small pieces of information, less than a text message. A 60k download (from your phone's point of view) is more than enough for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Firstly I wanted to use it for an alternative to Dropbox but then I found out the Cal- and CardDAV support. And you're totally right with syncing after first initialisation. Maybe I get an RPi later and try this one and also the owncloud feed reader [emoji2]
Any idea how to use the FF sync of owncloud, since FF only supports upgrading old accs to the new mozilla ones but personally I'd prefer the old way.
Greetz

Alternatives to download official apps

Hi,
The vast majority of my apps come from F-droid and Github but a few ones can only be downloaded on the Google Play Store.
I don't have Google services on my device so I'm looking for a reliable tool/website to update those apps. I know Raccoon but a PC is required and I don't have one during the week.
I found APKpure a few weeks ago. Apparently all apps have to pass a signature verification so they guarantee safe downloads. It seems legit and I did compare the SHA1 of their apk and the one downloaded from Google Play. The apk hasn't been altered. One positive result doesn't mean that we can't have negative ones though
I don't like "mirror websites". The owner of apkpure, apkupdate and apkplz seems to be the same so it's more complicated for me to trust those sources. Why do they need all these websites? I didn't find any legal information BTW...
No paid apps can be downloaded on these websites so my only suspicion is that they could add malwares into some (famous) apps. Of course, original apps can also have malwares on Google Play.
For the record, I uploaded the few apks I downloaded to VirusToral and nothing has been detected.
Last but not least, Apkpure provides a dedicated app to install and update apps, which is great even if they suggest me new versions that aren't officially available yet. (probably related to a region restriction or a delay from Google to push the app update for all countries).
What do you think about these websites? Do you know a safer way?

I don't have google apps also, using apk pure for now, everything is well.

BlankStore should work for most free apps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375

Wakamatsu said:
BlankStore should work for most free apps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know but it uses Gmail IDs (with a connection to Google servers). Last but not least, the project is discontinued for several months.
I was going to give a try to Blankstore this weekend and it doesn't seem to be a reliable alternative in the medium term.

Primokorn said:
Yes, I know but it uses Gmail IDs (with a connection to Google servers). Last but not least, the project is discontinued for several months.
I was going to give a try to Blankstore this weekend and it doesn't seem to be a reliable alternative in the medium term.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@Primokorn ,
what about its alternative.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3217616
would really be interested in your opinion (if you look into it and dont mind ).
"err on the side of kindness"

Primokorn said:
Yes, I know but it uses Gmail IDs (with a connection to Google servers).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I created a throwaway gmail account for this but I get your point.
Primokorn said:
Last but not least, the project is discontinued for several months.
I was going to give a try to Blankstore this weekend and it doesn't seem to be a reliable alternative in the medium term.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's discontinued in the sense that he will not move further with that particular project in favour of another but he will still make fixes when a Google update breaks BlankStore function. It's been "discontinued" since version 0.7.1.

I have a old device just for this purpose.
It has no info on it
Everything possible has been removed that's not needed
(Like calender and contacts etc)
All it does is connect to Wi-Fi to get apps from Google play
Even paid apps.
And I harp non stop to developers and leave feedback on apps that don't support offline use.
(Is in app purchases, online verification, etc things that can be stored on device over getting from internet every time)
I don't see the point of getting apps elsewhere when they will do the same thing to you as Google..But with less oversight.
Virus checkers are pointless when apps are Trojans..
Or have them built in.
I consider any software that mines any thing from your device, without declaring exactly what it is doing every time, nothing other than a Trojan.
Google and it's partners will always push for a proprietary distribution system claiming it will keep you secure
When I'm truth what it does is you your money going to them
When I've had to I've gotten my apks from some very unusual places.
But then you can get some very bad software from very official places.

mrrocketdog said:
@Primokorn ,
what about its alternative.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3217616
would really be interested in your opinion (if you look into it and dont mind ).
"err on the side of kindness"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use microG framework for several weeks now
Wakamatsu said:
It's discontinued in the sense that he will not move further with that particular project in favour of another but he will still make fixes when a Google update breaks BlankStore function. It's been "discontinued" since version 0.7.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads-up! I wanted to give a try this weekend but I had serious with my laptop I keep that in mind for the next time.
nutpants said:
I have a old device just for this purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What an expensive alternative! I'm used to sell my current device to buy a new one and that's not handy IMHO.
nutpants said:
And I harp non stop to developers and leave feedback on apps that don't support offline use.
(Is in app purchases, online verification, etc things that can be stored on device over getting from internet every time)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Solutions exist for devs to not use Google Play online verification but they want to use it to punish users who download warez. Even if I can understand this point of view, we wouldn't have warez with FLOSS softwares.
nutpants said:
Google and it's partners will always push for a proprietary distribution system claiming it will keep you secure
When I'm truth what it does is you your money going to them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have done some fruitful research to prepare an article about GAFAM and other big companies. In addition, Google doesn't protect our freedom of speech (I noticed this many times with 'ordinary people').
Now that I clearly know what they did/do/will do, how could I still use their services?!? My next Android work will be published under GPL v3, I already stopped any operations on Google Play and I try to push devs to offer free/libre softwares. Marcel (M66B on XDA) is the perfect example of an awesome developer :good:

Primokorn said:
I use microG framework for several weeks now
What an expensive alternative! I'm used to sell my current device to buy a new one and that's not handy IMHO.
Solutions exist for devs to not use Google Play online verification but they want to use it to punish users who download warez. Even if I can understand this point of view, we wouldn't have warez with FLOSS softwares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rarely sell my devices, (i have 6 of 9 that I play with somewhat regularly sadly)honestly i keep the last one as a back up in case the new one has issues or a failure. And when I do think of it, it not worth the money to make it worth the time..
I still have my Windows mobile 2003 Siemens sx66
(Not that is have been turned on in years)
But really it's an investment in my security.
(And I no longer get the hottest newest devices asap anymore, that's a zero sum game that has few benefits beyond bragging rights)
My tablet dual boots between Google play only rom and everything else internet rom also.
I have yet to hear of a protection scheme that had not been broken in hours. I think bluray was the last major public disaster. If the time spent on protection was spent on quality assurance I think it would be a different landscape in the digital world.
Even with floss you have warez.. just in different forms. Mods,hacks, cracks, custom roms It all just words that describe one developer modifying others work without permission for features that are not present, either added or removed.
It's point of view.like anything.
Myself, I stand back and promote security,offline abilities and operation and open source.
It's where my money goes, my time and my vote. Every chance I get.

XDA: Focus on making independence accessible to android users!
@Primokorn: Thanks a zillion for starting this crucial discussion. I don't know how often i pointed out these issues.
Of course, i also have some aesthetic preferences. But diving through endless reefs of startup animation replacements, battery monitor alternatives and half-baked theme studies is not what i expected xda-developers.com to end up, 12 years after i started being around.
In my eyes, the whole aftermarket ado should be concentrated on maintaining the independency of the most popular mobile operating system of the universe by it's users. Crucial topics be
Liberating the app distribution architecture
Optimizing the permission restriction system
There are great approaches like the Aroma Installer, that have been employed to supply user friendly means for debloating and debranding. Have a look at the Screenshots of stockymod.
@nutpants:
And I harp non stop to developers and leave feedback on apps that don't support offline use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do the same thing to official institutions when they release apps. If i wasn't in that hyper-busy age around 40, i'd start a little riot about publicly funded software that ends up being published behind the wellknown golden cages exclusively. The necessity to change this in a grassroot movement is obvious.

Apkmirror.com

Did not know these existed, going to check this out!

AirDroid Using Tencent Servers?

I've search for information on this but have found nothing so I thought I'd post my findings here and see if anyone has anything to add/correct.
I've been setting up firewall blocking on my router using ASUSWRT-Merlin with Skynet firewall. I decided to block a whole bunch of countries that I deemed unnecessary/risky for security, including China.
Turns out, blocking China prevents AirDroid from working - it can't even log in.
Checking the log shows a bunch of domains that Skynet is blocking (stat.airdroid.com, stat3.airdroid.com, stat-push.airdroid.com, us-east-7-data.airdroid.com, us-east-8-data.airdroid.com, srv3-clb.airdroid.com, id4-clb.airdroid.com; possibly others). Telling Skynet to unblock these domains results in it responding with "Element cannot be deleted from the set: it's not added" (i.e. they're not blocked).
Removing China from the blocked countries list allows AirDroid to work.
Now this is where things get interesting, and how I figured out the China-wide blocking was causing this issue. In the log file that Skynet stores on the inserted USB drive, "skynet.log", it shows the IPs that these connections were trying to make. All of them are owned by Tencent (there were two prominent ones, but the entire range beginning with "49.51." is owned by them) - specifically, these are for TencentCloud (I assume those are their cloud services, like Azure or AWS or such).
Also, the three MAC addresses dealing with the Tencent IPs are my Note 9, Galaxy Tab A8 and my MacBook - the only three devices on which I run AirDroid.
I'm sure most people won't really care on what servers AirDroid are hosting, but personally, I'd rather not have any connections made to or from Tencent IPs if possible, especially considering how often AirDroid appears to be phoning home. This worries me, especially since this doesn't appear to be public knowledge. The only inconsistency is that a whois lookup shows AirDroid's host is GoDaddy, so how exactly Tencent is involved, I'm not sure... but they are.
If I'm mistaken about this, please feel free to correct me - I'd be happy to be wrong, frankly -, but based on what I'm seeing and the blocking/unblocking I've tried, it appears, at least for now, that this is true.
Guess I'll have to start looking for an AirDroid alternative, because this is unacceptable to me.
Attached are some screenshots of my logs with MAC addresses and personal IPs redacted in case anyone is curious. Yes, I realise the dates are different - I didn't realise I'd screencapped yesterday from the log until after I had edited the images, but the data is pretty much identical to the data from today.
Best I can tell, the Tencent IPs definitely coincide with AirDroid trying to log in and authenticate (and failing at the time because China was still blocked).

Thanks for this info, I was already having my doubts about Airdroid.

No problem. I'm glad someone found it useful. Nobody else seems to be talking about it, which bothers me.
If nothing else, Tencent's servers are being used for Airdroid's authentication servers.

Not sure why it is such an issue really? I mean it is not like other services that use servers tell me where they are routing anything. I would be more worried that there is basically no information about the company that runs the project.

wangdaning said:
Not sure why it is such an issue really? I mean it is not like other services that use servers tell me where they are routing anything. I would be more worried that there is basically no information about the company that runs the project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because not every company routes your information through Chinese servers which, in this case, could have a large amount of access to your linked devices. Tencent is not a trustworthy company. This could potentially mean that, if they wanted to, the Chinese government could access a lot of your data through AirDroid.
Now, obviously that's not guaranteed, but I still wouldn't trust it.
Then again, there's a reason I try to stick to FOSS software as much as possible. AirDroid was convenient for a while but I don't use it now.
Besides, your reasoning for this not being "such an issue" is "others are shady too". That... doesn't actually make it any better. Plus we know that companies like Google, for example, mine your data anyway, whereas this seemingly innocuous application that I've seen readily recommended by many people is a lot more obfuscated (probably because it's a smaller app).
That, and I haven't found many apps and sites from personal usage that my firewall setup blocks, so this one absolutely stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't want anything to do with Tencent and I know other people feel the same way as me. More importantly, I shared the information to hopefully learn more and, more importantly, let other people know in case they care.

TankedThomas said:
Because not every company routes your information through Chinese servers which, in this case, could have a large amount of access to your linked devices. Tencent is not a trustworthy company. This could potentially mean that, if they wanted to, the Chinese government could access a lot of your data through AirDroid.
Now, obviously that's not guaranteed, but I still wouldn't trust it.
Then again, there's a reason I try to stick to FOSS software as much as possible. AirDroid was convenient for a while but I don't use it now.
Besides, your reasoning for this not being "such an issue" is "others are shady too". That... doesn't actually make it any better. Plus we know that companies like Google, for example, mine your data anyway, whereas this seemingly innocuous application that I've seen readily recommended by many people is a lot more obfuscated (probably because it's a smaller app).
That, and I haven't found many apps and sites from personal usage that my firewall setup blocks, so this one absolutely stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't want anything to do with Tencent and I know other people feel the same way as me. More importantly, I shared the information to hopefully learn more and, more importantly, let other people know in case they care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to know what exactly makes tencent untrustworthy. I use them for banking daily, so would like to be informed.

wangdaning said:
I would like to know what exactly makes tencent untrustworthy. I use them for banking daily, so would like to be informed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that they give your data to the Chinese government should be all you need to know to deem them untrustworthy - Tencent and similar companies collect a lot of your data (often illegally).
If you don't believe me, look it up - most of (if not all, though that has yet to be conclusively proven, but it's not much of a stretch) the tech giants in mainland China are in the pocket of the Chinese government.
Frankly, I value my privacy too much to deal with such a company, and using them for banking sounds like a bad idea to me.
Here are some sources that I pulled up quickly, but there's plenty more of these around the web:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...ping-the-government-see-everything-1512056284
https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2...-your-data-when-you-use-chinese-messaging-app
https://fossbytes.com/xiaomi-and-tencent-illegal-data-collection-china/
https://freedomhouse.org/blog/worried-about-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent
The best they get is a slap on the wrist (and sometimes only for the sake of publicity), then they continue on with these practices.
And that's to say nothing of the censorship in which they engage.

TankedThomas said:
The fact that they give your data to the Chinese government should be all you need to know to deem them untrustworthy - Tencent and similar companies collect a lot of your data (often illegally).
If you don't believe me, look it up - most of (if not all, though that has yet to be conclusively proven, but it's not much of a stretch) the tech giants in mainland China are in the pocket of the Chinese government.
Frankly, I value my privacy too much to deal with such a company, and using them for banking sounds like a bad idea to me.
Here are some sources that I pulled up quickly, but there's plenty more of these around the web:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...ping-the-government-see-everything-1512056284
https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2...-your-data-when-you-use-chinese-messaging-app
https://fossbytes.com/xiaomi-and-tencent-illegal-data-collection-china/
https://freedomhouse.org/blog/worried-about-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent
The best they get is a slap on the wrist (and sometimes only for the sake of publicity), then they continue on with these practices.
And that's to say nothing of the censorship in which they engage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If privacy was your main concern you would never use an app that routes your data through a third party without encryption. It is clear your goal is to take a shot at a company that is not even in control of the app you are complaining about. Lets see, your news list says, Xiaomi, Huawei, Tencent, and Chinese. How interesting.
By all means protect your privacy. I know I do and I use all three companies and many more products from the country. I hate that tencent knows when I get a latte though :silly:

wangdaning said:
If privacy was your main concern you would never use an app that routes your data through a third party without encryption. It is clear your goal is to take a shot at a company that is not even in control of the app you are complaining about. Lets see, your news list says, Xiaomi, Huawei, Tencent, and Chinese. How interesting.
By all means protect your privacy. I know I do and I use all three companies and many more products from the country. I hate that tencent knows when I get a latte though :silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is clear your goal is to defend a bunch of Chinese companies known for handing data over to the Chinese government.
The fact that you are purposely trying to portray me in a specific way to fit your narrow-minded view instead of being concerned about how and where data goes (and for the record, I care about where my data goes in general, but most people around here are already well aware of where data for companies like Google and Apple goes, but not for an app like this) is frankly ridiculous.
If you don't care about this (which you clearly do not), then kindly leave this thread and don't return. I posted this thread to let people who despise Tencent and their business practices know about AirDroid's involvement, and to see if anyone had more information. I did NOT post this thread for you to come along and defend Tencent's honour. Enough garbage companies already do that, and they've added as much to the discussion of privacy as you have (i.e. absolutely nothing of value).

Great concerns, for sure. Thanks for your input.
I tried the app, quickly isolating it from the WAN, and running with Xprivacy of course. Luckily, HTTPS local connection only is possible. I wouldn't sign up in this type of app and i wouldnt use the barcode reader to connect to WAN. Rendered LAN web app contacts chinese servers on the PC, but reviewing content it looked fine in a quick check.
The app seems chinese, it's giving me one notification bar in chinese, and rest of translations are chinglish. I don't say it's neccessarily wrong, i just want to know if this is an open source app to trust it. Otherwise, i will keep running it in strict LAN mode.
Now about the functionality, I like Synology/Windows like UI. So cool!
Contacts/Call log/messages/ringtones/apps work.
Mirroring and Camera worked once. There's some strange checkbox "Don't show again" to click on (?) in Mirroring settings which doesn't work. Update: Camera worked again once switching back to HTTP.
Files/Music/Pictures/Videos don't work at all, even the android app cannot see files. No clue why.
Notifications are shown again on HTTP, however they're not displayed by the browser AND they simply disappear later. No actions also. So unless you 're currently in the tab, you won't notice anything.
I struggle to find a use case for this.
* Mirroring isn't interactive - so together with Camera it's a very infrequent function to use. I'd rather have an interactive mirroring like MobilEdit (if i remember correctly), what a great app it was. Or a Dex type of desktop where you can really interact with the android.
* Messages is showing "SMS", which is something obsolete for me, using alt messenger with secure repository (not the standard unsafe android one). SMS and calls are dead to me long time ago, but i'd have been happy about possibility to reply a decade ago, definitely!
* The last resort is notifications, that'd save some time if implemented well, with history. But it's not.
* One more thing on my mind is ability to send APK to phone, ok.. but it's again a rare task, i wouldn't run this background service for this purpose if i can send the APK via bluetooth...

I look for an app that let me get rid of USB cable for sharing photos or musik between PC and phone.
Sorry if I didn't understood the whole elaboration, but isn't this not just a point to point connection? I wouldn't like that others have access to it.
Or is it about other services?

is this the same Airdroid that has been around for like 10 years now?