Database Info

Cyanogen shut down by Google

I cant believe this. Cyanogen just twittered this:
Sorry everyone, CyanogenMod in it's current state is done. I am violating Google's license by redistributing their applications.
More at: http://twitter.com/cyanogen
(Mods I know it should belong in General but the developer thread should know about it then the other ones. Forgive me)

You are taking it all wrong. He hasn't been shut down, wont be shut down, etc. Read the original statement. As long as you any apps that arent part of the source code repository you are not violating anything as far as google is concerned.
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion around Google's apps for Android. We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need. I look forward to seeing what comes next!
So lets please stop being chicken little and get on with the dev work. Not including certain apps is not going to make or break any rom as each user should be able to find the apps on their own.
The sky is not falling although my home did get flooded in atlanta last week.

Johnny Blaze said:
You are taking it all wrong. He hasn't been shut down, wont be shut down, etc. Read the original statement. As long as you any apps that arent part of the source code repository you are not violating anything as far as google is concerned.
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion around Google's apps for Android. We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need. I look forward to seeing what comes next!
So lets please stop being chicken little and get on with the dev work. Not including certain apps is not going to make or break any rom as each user should be able to find the apps on their own.
The sky is not falling although my home did get flooded in atlanta last week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are aware of that the phone relies on ALOT on framework and other files. Have you tried to delete any of the Google Apps? The phone doesnt work without them. Also, open source replacements arent going to be pulled out of the air magically. Its going to take ALOT of work.
Are you sad all your stuff was ruined?

Johnny Blaze said:
You are taking it all wrong. He hasn't been shut down, wont be shut down, etc. Read the original statement. As long as you any apps that arent part of the source code repository you are not violating anything as far as google is concerned.
With a high-quality open platform in hand, we then returned to our goal of making our services available on users' phones. That's why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google's way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren't open source, and that's why they aren't included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion around Google's apps for Android. We always love seeing novel uses of Android, including custom Android builds from developers who see a need. I look forward to seeing what comes next!
So lets please stop being chicken little and get on with the dev work. Not including certain apps is not going to make or break any rom as each user should be able to find the apps on their own.
The sky is not falling although my home did get flooded in atlanta last week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure its not truly legal but i think its the way they have gone about it- and in the spirit of open source i fail to see how it affects them.....i thought their business plan was based on more people using the net, more people using their apps, and more people using google to search..... so surely he is creating more business for them?.....
I don't like where this is heading......

jealous
if i was google id be going mad too, seeing the new youtube and market on phones and its not supposed to be out yet.
maybe they will offer him a job

John Player said:
if i was google id be going mad too, seeing the new youtube and market on phones and its not supposed to be out yet.
maybe they will offer him a job
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree and I think those apps were the straw that broke the camels back...

Its all crap no one not even google can stop someone developing a rom with copyrighted
material on the internet.there are many ways to cover this up without being traced
Anyway what's stopping a simple script downloading google apps onto the device on boot? Nothing as android as source is open

spyz88 said:
You are aware of that the phone relies on ALOT on framework and other files. Have you tried to delete any of the Google Apps? The phone doesnt work without them. Also, open source replacements arent going to be pulled out of the air magically. Its going to take ALOT of work.
Are you sad all your stuff was ruined?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The frameworks, etc and files needed to run the os are part of what you can get from the repository. I set up my mac to cook my own roms so I do know whats there and what isnt.
I bootcamped back into vista, loaded adb explorer and removed market, gmail, youtube, and maps. My phone does work without them. If you need gmail then yes there would be an issue but only reason i have gmail is that it was required for me to get my G1 when it came out. Try it for yourself. You will be a lot less functional but your phone will still work.
Besides Google is kinda in a shaky spot. Win mo although not great is established along with RIM os, and Iphone so Android is still in the growing stage and to attract the business users it has to have no hiccups or possible easy exploits so I do believe they will do a lot of barking but very little bite. Probably if Cyanogen wouldnt have made it on engadget, yahoo, msn probably wouldve been left alone.
There are still better things to do with the os. The real dev work is what cyanogen and others do with the kernel, memory management, etc not the apps included with the rom.

PROJECT:OpenAndroid
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=564263 We are attempting to as a community replace all of google's parts with opensourced programs developed and written ourselves. If you have any thoughts or suggestions please let us know.

The issue is that right now if you want to create a useful ROM you need to include the Market app at a minimum.
Sure Gmail is easy enough to replace, and Maps can be downloaded from the Market. But wait, you can't download it from the Market because you don't have a Market app.
So until there is an open source way to access the Market the ROM development community for Android pretty much hosed.

Hopefully this is not heading to where I think it is heading to... Or I might just jump on the next iPhone and say bye bye to Google.

Actually just a though. Just make a way to for the end user to back the google apps and then after a flash to reload them back on after install. That is not violating their stoopid terms then lol. And then for any updates just providing where you can get the updated stuff directly from google. Like where to get market 1.6 and so forth just right from google. Again no violating anything google. Defiantly a sad day for android. Since they don't let tethering , more then 3 home, not having file system access (like win mo), and no ads (adfree) lol, and many of the other great things with out root. If Google sees this thru I am going to go back to Apple iPhone and to hell with Android. Google will loose alot of users out of this I think.

Just write apps to tie you in with Hotmail / contacts / calendaring / outlook and leave GMail totally out of it.... Google will change their tune about the usage of 'their' apps. Because really they get the most from it by keeping you tied in to their online services.

Wow! I dont even know what to think. It must be a cold day in hell. I really hope that Cyanogen and the devs here @xda can come up with a way around this. And to think that Cyanogen was making some serious headway with the development of his Roms, website, and YouTube channel. I am more or less in shock right now. I have all the faith in the world that you guys will come through this still developing the best the Android community has to offer. Just be patient...
And seriously?...you would switch to Iphone? Who the #UCK wants one of those pieces of $H1T.
NOT ME!!

I highly doubt google would actually follow through and take legal action on something like this. It would be a bad business move all around. I would expect the C&D are more about pleasing manufactures and carriers more then google being worried about their own code, in which case who can blame them as they are at a point where they desperately need to attract these companies in order to ensure the future of android.

Just received a pretty interesting article via Twitter.
http://bit.ly/2NjYST
Not my article, and not necessarily my opinion, but it's a good read.

Arrgghh..google..
Bubye google apps..lets just forget them!
Modified android is much important then google apps itself!!
Google, you are very ridicoulous!! You make your app avaliable free for other system, but for your own system? Even now you make gmail support exchange..
I think i hate google as much as i hate apple..lol..

spyz88 said:
You are aware of that the phone relies on ALOT on framework and other files. Have you tried to delete any of the Google Apps? The phone doesnt work without them. Also, open source replacements arent going to be pulled out of the air magically. Its going to take ALOT of work.
Are you sad all your stuff was ruined?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ. The phone works without the google apps. I know. Thats what I had when I first got my HTC Magic 32A. For some reason, HTC did not include ANY of Google's stuff in it.
So, no market, no gmail, no maps, no youtube. It was boring as hell. but i still can do pretty much all i needed to do on it (emails, txt and calls).
Just had to imap/pop3 sync gmail using the HTC email client. One thing I hated was the fact that I need to rely on SlideME for my apps. SlideMe(at the time) had very limited apps.

So is including the market breaking the rules, if it is can someone setup a webpage alternative to download apps then just not include google stuff. Open street maps has better maps anyway so i use rmaps, google mail well plenty of email clients about. If we wait i am syre there will be alternative apps for the other google stuff.

Or, oh, I dunno, how about adding a default bookmark android-leak or something and let users download pirated apps? "To bypass the Google Market"? LOL... Basically Google wants us to know that including their apps for free (as in Cyanogen roms) is just like pirating apps, so we are the bad guys already anyway.
I really hope Google will not follow up with the C&D and further spread fear all around.
We are all Google's pawns by using Google apps, let them see our email, see our location, store our search preferences etc to "return better result for your searches" or really, target marketing. When we stop using Google apps (, and move our business to, gasp, Hotmail), they will like it better?
RotoRooted said:
And seriously?...you would switch to Iphone? Who the #UCK wants one of those pieces of $H1T.
NOT ME!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just saying I'm not happy with the news and I'm going to vote with my money when the next device comes along. I thought Google was the "good guy", but now I think Apple and Google both seem like they think they are the gods of the world anyway.

READ ME: Clearing Misconceptions About CyanogenMod C&D

Lately a lot of threads have been popping up on this subforum and others with regard to the CyanogenMod C&D. A lot of these long threads seem to just be giant echo chambers filled with uninformed or ignorant end-users who don't understand the true nature of the situation. I am creating this thread to help clear up the misconceptions surrounding CyanogenMod, the AOSP, and Google's position in this matter.
Here are some common misconceptions and their clarifications:
"We should petition to keep Android open source!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google acquired Android, Inc. in 2005 and began investing time and manpower to develop the Android operating system into a fully fledged mobile operating system. The entire project was open sourced in October 2008 to coincide with the first public availability of the Dream hardware. Since then, the Android Open Source Project (which consists of all the source code required to build a working Android environment) has been completely open source. Period.
On top of the completely open source operating system, Google also bundled several useful applications into many stock builds of Android. These builds are commonly referred to as "Google Experience" builds, and the apps include things like the Market, GMail, Youtube, etc. These are NOT a part of the Android Open Source Project, they NEVER WERE a part, and it is unlikely that they ever will be. Many end users seem to have the misconception that these apps are and/or should be a part of the AOSP. They are not. Period.
"Google is trying to keep me from installing other ROMs [sic]!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The C&D letter to Cyanogen was not meant to suppress users from using non-official builds ("ROMs"). The purpose of the cease and desist letter was to stop Cyanogen from continuing to redistribute without permission the proprietary Google-specific apps described above. This is completely within Google's right to do so.
Now to be fair, the work done on xda has often skirted the matter of unauthorized redistribution. In fact, without unauthorized redistribution, it would be difficult (but not impossible) to "cook ROMs". However, unauthorized redistribution has generally been viewed as an unspoken, ungranted privilege. If the company holding the rights to the related software issues a cease and desist letter, the community must respect that choice. To fail to do so would only serve to delegitimize what we do here and risk the survival of the os hacking community as a whole. Users with an overinflated sense of entitlement, you are not welcome here!
"I bought the phone, I should have a right to use the proprietary Google software however I like."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally, being legally licensed to run a software package does still impose limitations on your usage of it (e.g. you cannot make unauthorized copies or disassemble it). However, in this case, the violation is not in the end-user act of installing CyanogenMod, it is with Cyanogen distributing it. And by no means is this singling out Cyanogen; any "ROM cooker" that includes copyrighted proprietary software in the updater (which at this point is the majority of them) is potentially risking a legal letter.
"Google should not have waited until Cyanogen had worked so much to shut him down!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As in #2, I have to emphasize that unauthorized redistribution is something of an unspoken tacit permission. "ROM cookers" therefore need to exercise good judgement. Back when builds were simply slightly modified versions of stock update.zip files, it was easy for Google to turn a blind eye. The latest CyanogenMod installer included a leaked pre-release version of the Android Market software. Now, I hope it's plainly obvious for even the most oblivious reader, but if you leak a company's unreleased proprietary software before their official release, chances are you will piss them off. Leaks like this have several potentially negative consequences for companies: 1) decreased perceived quality because the program had not been fully debugged, 2) ruining planned launch timelines, 3) causing server backend issues due to unrecognized clients logging in.
Bottom line is this: if you are a "ROM cooker" and you absolutely have to include proprietary copyrighted software in your build, DO NOT INCLUDE ANY UNRELEASED SOFTWARE. You will very likely get C&D'd.
"Google should appreciate Cyanogen's hard work!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the time you boot up your phone to when you run that first app, probably somewhere like only 1% of the code is written by the "ROM cook". The process of "cooking a ROM" is not, for the most part, programming.
If you want to give credit where credit is due, for the most part you would be thanking Linus Torvalds and the contributors of the Linux kernel, the Android Open Source Project team, and the folks who really did the groundbreaking work establishing root access on the Dream.

good post!

Agreed, very good post..

Maybe someone can clear something up for me (its been bugging me a little)
If i compile from source i need to add files that are pulled from my phone.
Does this mean that ALL roms are technically illegal, even if they dont include the google closed source programs.
Or are we ok to include these files as they are needed for the phone to work, so considered closed source but part of asop?
I have not seen this addressed and i am curious what the state of play is with these files.

Agreed ........ !

Thank you for taking the time to clear things up. Hopefully this will help folks gain some perspective and move toward productive directions.
If i compile from source i need to add files that are pulled from my phone.
Does this mean that ALL roms are technically illegal, even if they dont include the google closed source programs.
Or are we ok to include these files as they are needed for the phone to work, so considered closed source but part of aosp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good question. It certainly means the ROM is not purely open-source, at the least.
My sense is that those files are the property of HTC and we don't have a license to redistribute them.
Now I don't really expect HTC to serve anyone with a C&D anytime soon, for various reasons, but until a ROM cook gets a written license to redistribute those files from HTC, or until a fully open-source rewrite of those files is done, it's a gray area at the very least.

vixsandlee said:
Does this mean that ALL roms are technically illegal, even if they dont include the google closed source programs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking very technically: yes, because you do not have the express right to redistribute the binary drivers for things like the wifi module or the radio. In reality, these pieces of code are so tightly tied to the hardware that it is unlikely you will get a c&d for redistributing them. However, in the hardcore open source community, even these drivers will be left out, requiring the user to fetch them for him/herself. That would be the 100% license-compliant way.
I'm pleased to say though, there are already many people working on semi and full license compliance methods and "ROMs". Just take a look at the first two pages of this subforum.

vixsandlee said:
If i compile from source i need to add files that are pulled from my phone.
Does this mean that ALL roms are technically illegal, even if they dont include the google closed source programs.
Or are we ok to include these files as they are needed for the phone to work, so considered closed source but part of asop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the post again. It's illegal to even copy the Google APKs files out of an original installation and import it into a custom ROM. The major issue was that all ROM creators were importing the Google Apps which are "closed-source" into their own legal open-source code.
I guess now, it'll be down to the individual to decide whether they want the Google Apps in their phone. That's why scripts have been created to give the user a choice on whether to do the illegal act of placing the Google Apps onto their phone.
Google are unlikely going to chase you the individual down rather than the ROM creator (like in Cyanogen's case with the C&D letter).
Hope this helps.

ok. so then all this is not because of the google propriatary crap, but because he released the market early, so google just USED this BS reason to stop that? in other words, had he not released it early, nothing would have happened?
if thats the case, i dont blame cyanogen, but i blame ALL those GREEDY users that MUST have EVERYTHING before everyone else because they feel they need to be the best. you greedy punks almost ruined it for everyone. from what i see cyanogen usually tries his best to do what the people want, had the people not wanted the market so early(its not even that great, just new colors "ooohhh wooow ive never seen colors before i must have that! and now!".. ridiculous.) then this wouldnt happen.
now from i see the latest and "greatest" usually comes in the experimental releases. i think, cyanogen should shut down the experimental releases, or only release them to certain people.. or make it a lot LESS public..that way he can keep testing the stuff till its good and then release it as stable when he sees fit. i mean come on, 4.0.4 is already awesome!! i love it! been using since forever. why couldnt everyone else just be happy with 4.0.4?
and like the post said, dont be stupid and release some leaked program. cause it doesnt just shut you down its gonna shut everyone down. unfortunately i see that soon some noob working on hero roms is gonna release something, and then HTC will be here next.
oh and add this in there:
My guess is that Google has known for some time what was going on, but probably thought 'best not to upset the apple cart' while Android was in its infancy, with only one or two devices from a single manufacturer available on a single carrier. Now that we are on the verge of Android devices being shipped from at least five hardware vendors with over half a dozen carriers, Google probably felt that they needed to get a handle on this. I sense they feared things getting out of control with modders doing willy-nilly ports of innovations from one vendor/carrier to another—e.g., Motoblur on HTC devices and HTC Sense on Motorola devices. I think Google's legal team had a strong part in what took place, and forced action.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and i just saw a rom that got some of the motoblur stuff mixed with hero and for the g1. how long do you think till motorola and HTC are here complaining about software on the g1 that isnt supposed to be?

Why don't Google offer these closed-source apps like they do for Google Maps? They could only benefit from more users having the 'Google Experience', even though their phones don't have them pre-installed.

TunsterX2 said:
I guess now, it'll be down to the individual to decide whether they want the Google Apps in their phone. That's why scripts have been created to give the user a choice on whether to do the illegal act of placing the Google Apps onto their phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a user downloads a "ROM" without Google apps on it, downloads an official update.zip from google.com, and then copies the Google apps from the official update into the cooked "ROM", that completely mitigates the problem of unauthorized distribution and only leaves the much less sticky issue of unauthorized usage. Unauthorized usage is typically a lot less offensive to the interested companies and definitely a lot less enforceable. There are likely some EULAs somewhere governing the usage of the Google apps (GMail, Market, etc) and except for Market I would be surprised if they explicitly required the app to run on authorized distributions only. But again like I said, it would be difficult to detect, let alone enforce.

peshkata said:
Why don't Google offer these closed-source apps like they do for Google Maps? They could only benefit from more users having the 'Google Experience', even though their phones don't have them pre-installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a very good question, and one I sure would like the Android team at Google to answer. The only app I see being a problem would be Market, since it requires a secured app-private to function properly (which would not be guaranteed on a non-GE phone).

Your post nicely presents the legal aspects and rights of Google but IMHO misses the larger point. The open source community was believing in the ideals of open source and looking the other way at the control Google has over this platform. The pieces that Google controls are not easily (if ever practically) replaceable.
Google actions show that they are not that much different than Apple in trying to control the platform and the user experience. Don't be surprised to see Google behave more and more like Apple as the platform gets stronger and Google's need of an open community weakens.
The only bright spot is one that Google may have missed - that is their existing fight with Apple and AT&T regarding GoogleVoice. Their actions against Cyanogen gives Apple and AT&T ammunition in their arguments with the FCC, which is the last thing Google wants.
This is the only lever this community has over Google. Bring up the FCC and Google Voice case, and Google may back off.
For those who pray for Cyanogen to be hired by Google -- that is the last thing you want. We do not need Google having more control over him, but less.
For those who think that creating bypasses with clean roms and user-initiated backups will solve these problem -- these are short-term technical workarounds which Google could close too.

so with it being technically illegal its pointless (IMHO) being open source.
Its fine with taking from the community, but google seem unwilling to give anything back.
Roll on when full open source roms appear, It would be like a linux distro coming with everything but keyboard and mouse drivers.

This is all legally correct. But it misses the point of the uproar.
We did not expect Android to devolve into a squabble over closed source bits when the whole premise is open source. Goog has disappointed, plain and simple. Your sticky is an apologist's point of view since it doesn't address that fundamental issue.
edit: btw, if Goog was upset about the new Market app specifically, they could have blocked its access to the market using a client-check.

rbrahmson said:
This is the only lever this community has over Google. Bring up the FCC and Google Voice case, and Google may back off.QUOTE]
well think about it. where would google make more money, in allowing the deals it made with htc and motorola and stuff to fall apart because they allow none licensed people do distribute there apps, but keeping the community with them, and winning with google voice... OR in screw the community, keeping the deals on good grounds, and losing the google voice fight? seeing how apple is STILL WAY ahead of android in terms of users, its tough. because its basically, either google kills its own OS for phones, or starts letting go of the iphone ideas by starting with screwing the google voice. honestly, from what i can see, google is gonna come out losing either way lol
then again it is GOOGLE. they never loses anything =/ though with that BING thing growing.. the giant may go down some day. its getting attacked on all sides
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

vixsandlee said:
so with it being technically illegal its pointless (IMHO) being open source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That depends on what your objective is. Open source has many benefits, and many of those are retained even if your distribution contains some closed-source elements. Another important aspect to remember is that while x86 PCs have had three decades to mature, smartphones have not had that same luxury. Given enough time, even hw drivers will become open sourced. So "pointless" is a bit hyperbolic.
Its fine with taking from the community, but google seem unwilling to give anything back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The spirit of open source is the spirit of giving. In that vein, Google has invested considerable time building parts of the AOSP from scratch. To say that they are "unwilling to give anything back" is just a plain falsehood.
Roll on when full open source roms appear, It would be like a linux distro coming with everything but keyboard and mouse drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck finding an open source 3G radio driver.

If anyone has read any of the dialog between Steve (cyanogen) and some other Google employees about this issue (most notably JBQ), you would realize that the Google employees are trying to work with Steve.
There is dialog about making the AOSP able to be built and fully functional and distributable without infringing on anyone's rights. This includes investigating other avenues for users to acquire and legally install the Google applications.
The current belief is that Google's legal team sent the C&D letter to Steve, and that it was not done so at the request of the Android developers. They most likely would have liked to work with him quietly and amicably.
Also, please remember that the Market application is not a part of AOSP. The Market application is Google's proprietary code; it is not part of the Android base. Not all Android devices have Google's Market—that is why there are other markets and means of installing software.
I have no doubt that this "controversy" will ultimately be for the best. I believe that Steve, JBQ and the rest of Google/Android will find a middle ground that will work best for everyone. (JBQ has an excellent history of working with other developers and finding good solutions for all—I remember back when he was working at Be and how helpful he was to all of those writing applications for BeOS.)

ytj87 said:
We did not expect Android to devolve into a squabble over closed source bits when the whole premise is open source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you're saying is you expected everything included in a Google Experience phone to be open source? I think the problem here is you (and the people you lump into "we") don't understand that Android isn't just built for users, it's also built for handset manufacturers. Quote from the OHA website:
Why did you pick the Apache v2 open source license?
Apache is a commercial-friendly open source license. The Apache license allows manufacturers and mobile operators to innovate using the platform without the requirement to contribute those innovations back to the open source community. Because these innovations and differentiated features can be kept proprietary, manufacturers and mobile operators are protected from the "viral infection" problem often associated with other licenses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In light of that, I don't feel its necessary to dignify the rest of your post with a response.

peshkata said:
Why don't Google offer these closed-source apps like they do for Google Maps? They could only benefit from more users having the 'Google Experience', even though their phones don't have them pre-installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they charge companies like T-Mobile to offer the phone "With Google". If Google put them on the market, then, according to google, any android device would be able to get these applications. So why would T-Mobile pay to have them included. This how Google makes money off of android, this is why they bought it in the first place. They didn't develop android for the open source community, they are a publicly traded company, all their share holders want to know is "How is this going to make use money?". But it is great that the platform is open.
But that brings up Google's "response" where they state any android device can get applications via the Android Market. How can ANY android device get these applications from the market, if only "With Google" devices ship with the market...

Ars: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

A few weeks ago, I posted a very unfortunate Google+ post of the creator of Focal and why it was removed from the CM codebase. It was a depressing story and it really started to make you wonder about where CM is going.
This time, after reading an extremely well-written article, I've come to a similarly depressing conclusion: Android by Google is slowly becoming as locked down as iOS, but not in the sense that you think; it's not about what apps let you do what, it's the developers.
We've finally arrived at a critical flaw with the way Android is developed and these days, I can no longer claim that Android (by Google) is "open" anymore.
Feel free to give this a read (Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Ars Technica in any way).
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...ntrolling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/
It's not just about Amazon's version of Android; CyanogenMod is for all intents and purposes a "fork" of Android. It is designed to work without Google Apps and as we all know, we flash those seperately. But that's the problem, the answer isn't just "Well, I'll just flash the Gapps and it will work like it should". What will happen if new Play Store apps start referring to features in the framework that don't exist in a form that we can flash? What if the license to flash the Gapps gets revoked?
How will CyanogenMod start adding features to apps that were originally AOSP but are now closed source? What will happen when the open source Messaging app is abandoned and turns into a Hangouts feature? How can CM stay on top of that?
It's not as simple as "take the source we currently have and work with it", because what will happen when Google adds a killer feature to an app that depends on some API that is no longer open source?
These are some rather frightening questions to deal with. I don't know where Android is going, but I'm certainly starting to wonder what's going to happen to it.
I'd appreciate any and all input on this.

Not very continuous, but here's my thoughts about the article:
The Gapps license is meant to lock the makers of Android phones into Google, so users get locked within Google and Google can gain revenue from the users. After going to that extent to make sure Google gets to keep the device's user, what's to gain if Google users of the device who flash CM to be locked out of the system instead of keeping them "trapped" with the Google ecosystem even with a non Google ROM? Doesn't make any sense does it?
I suppose we will still have to flash them like we flash the Play Store now. Unlike Amazon, CM (for now) actually still relies on Google and doesn't "divert" revenue to another company and therefore Google would be more than happy to let their apps be used. But if CM does start going the Amazon way, I believe Google may lock CM out.
Those APIs take time to develop, take the Maps API for example - you think they spent millions, if not billions mapping the entire world and even roaming every street just to make sure you can find your way around for free? They'll need to recoup their costs somehow.
While Android is open source and contributed by Google for free, don't forget Google is a company, not a charity. They have to make money or their shareholders won't be happy. Even if their shareholders are massive fans of open source they also have thousands of employees to pay, and all that costs money. And don't forget, when a company is providing free stuff for you to use, you are not their customer - you are their product. Android will change in ways that will keep Google profitable and keep competitiors unprofitable, while keeping the users as comfortable as possible so they will continue to be their product.

cccy said:
Not very continuous, but here's my thoughts about the article:
The Gapps license is meant to lock the makers of Android phones into Google, so users get locked within Google and Google can gain revenue from the users. After going to that extent to make sure Google gets to keep the device's user, what's to gain if Google users of the device who flash CM to be locked out of the system instead of keeping them "trapped" with the Google ecosystem even with a non Google ROM? Doesn't make any sense does it?
I suppose we will still have to flash them like we flash the Play Store now. Unlike Amazon, CM (for now) actually still relies on Google and doesn't "divert" revenue to another company and therefore Google would be more than happy to let their apps be used. But if CM does start going the Amazon way, I believe Google may lock CM out.
Those APIs take time to develop, take the Maps API for example - you think they spent millions, if not billions mapping the entire world and even roaming every street just to make sure you can find your way around for free? They'll need to recoup their costs somehow.
While Android is open source and contributed by Google for free, don't forget Google is a company, not a charity. They have to make money or their shareholders won't be happy. Even if their shareholders are massive fans of open source they also have thousands of employees to pay, and all that costs money. And don't forget, when a company is providing free stuff for you to use, you are not their customer - you are their product. Android will change in ways that will keep Google profitable and keep competitiors unprofitable, while keeping the users as comfortable as possible so they will continue to be their product.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I appreciate the input! I was looking forward to intelligent discussion and it's great that the first reply is just that.
I would like to clarify though; my concern is not so much about Google making money; they are a business and deserve to make money in whatever way they see fit. We have something they want (ad clicks and search history) and as long as they provide an experience worth using, I don't mind that transaction at all.
My worries start with what the custom development scene will look like one or two years from now if the base apps that make Android useful on its own (and by extension, useful to custom developers) have been molded into Google Play apps or frameworks or APIs.
In parallel, it's also starting to make sense why Cyanogen continues to put effort into alternate applications such as Apollo and Focal; they saw this coming way before we did.

LiquidSolstice said:
First, I appreciate the input! I was looking forward to intelligent discussion and it's great that the first reply is just that.
I would like to clarify though; my concern is not so much about Google making money; they are a business and deserve to make money in whatever way they see fit. We have something they want (ad clicks and search history) and as long as they provide an experience worth using, I don't mind that transaction at all.
My worries start with what the custom development scene will look like one or two years from now if the base apps that make Android useful on its own (and by extension, useful to custom developers) have been molded into Google Play apps or frameworks or APIs.
In parallel, it's also starting to make sense why Cyanogen continues to put effort into alternate applications such as Apollo and Focal; they saw this coming way before we did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the custom development scene wouldn't get affected much. After all, remember the old XDA-Developers? Windows was all locked down, but the cooks still managed to make customized ROMs. What's more, Google wouldn't want to lose their "products" - Google wants us to continue to use their services so they can earn money, they wouldn't lock us out.
What competitors lack is the capability to access Google's services (Frameworks, APIs, etc) as Google has ways to block them (Which is why we had circumvents like device spoofing). If you had a device designed for Google's version of Android, I am sure Google would still enable access if you use a custom ROM. The point of locking those competitors out is to force them to embrace Google's version of Android and not use their own forks which would keep Google out of certain aspects of the user's phone, decreasing revenue. Therefore, if you could roll your own custom ROM, it makes sense for Google to continue supporting you so you still completely rely on them instead of "outsourcing" to other competitors.
CM puts effort into alternate applications because as you can see right now, CM's starting to roll their own commercial forked devices - what happens after that? If you have seen the ways of other commercial versions of Android (Amazon, China brands, etc), they start replacing certain revenue generating aspects of the phone to use their own service instead of Google's. Certainly not what Google wants.
In short, I would say, if you are a small custom ROM user, Google isn't going to come after you, they want you to use their services! But if you are a competing company, expect your devices to be locked out from Google in the hopes that they eventually force you to bow to them and convert all your users completely to Google's "products".

Alternatives to download official apps

Hi,
The vast majority of my apps come from F-droid and Github but a few ones can only be downloaded on the Google Play Store.
I don't have Google services on my device so I'm looking for a reliable tool/website to update those apps. I know Raccoon but a PC is required and I don't have one during the week.
I found APKpure a few weeks ago. Apparently all apps have to pass a signature verification so they guarantee safe downloads. It seems legit and I did compare the SHA1 of their apk and the one downloaded from Google Play. The apk hasn't been altered. One positive result doesn't mean that we can't have negative ones though
I don't like "mirror websites". The owner of apkpure, apkupdate and apkplz seems to be the same so it's more complicated for me to trust those sources. Why do they need all these websites? I didn't find any legal information BTW...
No paid apps can be downloaded on these websites so my only suspicion is that they could add malwares into some (famous) apps. Of course, original apps can also have malwares on Google Play.
For the record, I uploaded the few apks I downloaded to VirusToral and nothing has been detected.
Last but not least, Apkpure provides a dedicated app to install and update apps, which is great even if they suggest me new versions that aren't officially available yet. (probably related to a region restriction or a delay from Google to push the app update for all countries).
What do you think about these websites? Do you know a safer way?

I don't have google apps also, using apk pure for now, everything is well.

BlankStore should work for most free apps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375

Wakamatsu said:
BlankStore should work for most free apps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know but it uses Gmail IDs (with a connection to Google servers). Last but not least, the project is discontinued for several months.
I was going to give a try to Blankstore this weekend and it doesn't seem to be a reliable alternative in the medium term.

Primokorn said:
Yes, I know but it uses Gmail IDs (with a connection to Google servers). Last but not least, the project is discontinued for several months.
I was going to give a try to Blankstore this weekend and it doesn't seem to be a reliable alternative in the medium term.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@Primokorn ,
what about its alternative.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3217616
would really be interested in your opinion (if you look into it and dont mind ).
"err on the side of kindness"

Primokorn said:
Yes, I know but it uses Gmail IDs (with a connection to Google servers).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I created a throwaway gmail account for this but I get your point.
Primokorn said:
Last but not least, the project is discontinued for several months.
I was going to give a try to Blankstore this weekend and it doesn't seem to be a reliable alternative in the medium term.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's discontinued in the sense that he will not move further with that particular project in favour of another but he will still make fixes when a Google update breaks BlankStore function. It's been "discontinued" since version 0.7.1.

I have a old device just for this purpose.
It has no info on it
Everything possible has been removed that's not needed
(Like calender and contacts etc)
All it does is connect to Wi-Fi to get apps from Google play
Even paid apps.
And I harp non stop to developers and leave feedback on apps that don't support offline use.
(Is in app purchases, online verification, etc things that can be stored on device over getting from internet every time)
I don't see the point of getting apps elsewhere when they will do the same thing to you as Google..But with less oversight.
Virus checkers are pointless when apps are Trojans..
Or have them built in.
I consider any software that mines any thing from your device, without declaring exactly what it is doing every time, nothing other than a Trojan.
Google and it's partners will always push for a proprietary distribution system claiming it will keep you secure
When I'm truth what it does is you your money going to them
When I've had to I've gotten my apks from some very unusual places.
But then you can get some very bad software from very official places.

mrrocketdog said:
@Primokorn ,
what about its alternative.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3217616
would really be interested in your opinion (if you look into it and dont mind ).
"err on the side of kindness"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use microG framework for several weeks now
Wakamatsu said:
It's discontinued in the sense that he will not move further with that particular project in favour of another but he will still make fixes when a Google update breaks BlankStore function. It's been "discontinued" since version 0.7.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads-up! I wanted to give a try this weekend but I had serious with my laptop I keep that in mind for the next time.
nutpants said:
I have a old device just for this purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What an expensive alternative! I'm used to sell my current device to buy a new one and that's not handy IMHO.
nutpants said:
And I harp non stop to developers and leave feedback on apps that don't support offline use.
(Is in app purchases, online verification, etc things that can be stored on device over getting from internet every time)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Solutions exist for devs to not use Google Play online verification but they want to use it to punish users who download warez. Even if I can understand this point of view, we wouldn't have warez with FLOSS softwares.
nutpants said:
Google and it's partners will always push for a proprietary distribution system claiming it will keep you secure
When I'm truth what it does is you your money going to them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have done some fruitful research to prepare an article about GAFAM and other big companies. In addition, Google doesn't protect our freedom of speech (I noticed this many times with 'ordinary people').
Now that I clearly know what they did/do/will do, how could I still use their services?!? My next Android work will be published under GPL v3, I already stopped any operations on Google Play and I try to push devs to offer free/libre softwares. Marcel (M66B on XDA) is the perfect example of an awesome developer :good:

Primokorn said:
I use microG framework for several weeks now
What an expensive alternative! I'm used to sell my current device to buy a new one and that's not handy IMHO.
Solutions exist for devs to not use Google Play online verification but they want to use it to punish users who download warez. Even if I can understand this point of view, we wouldn't have warez with FLOSS softwares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rarely sell my devices, (i have 6 of 9 that I play with somewhat regularly sadly)honestly i keep the last one as a back up in case the new one has issues or a failure. And when I do think of it, it not worth the money to make it worth the time..
I still have my Windows mobile 2003 Siemens sx66
(Not that is have been turned on in years)
But really it's an investment in my security.
(And I no longer get the hottest newest devices asap anymore, that's a zero sum game that has few benefits beyond bragging rights)
My tablet dual boots between Google play only rom and everything else internet rom also.
I have yet to hear of a protection scheme that had not been broken in hours. I think bluray was the last major public disaster. If the time spent on protection was spent on quality assurance I think it would be a different landscape in the digital world.
Even with floss you have warez.. just in different forms. Mods,hacks, cracks, custom roms It all just words that describe one developer modifying others work without permission for features that are not present, either added or removed.
It's point of view.like anything.
Myself, I stand back and promote security,offline abilities and operation and open source.
It's where my money goes, my time and my vote. Every chance I get.

XDA: Focus on making independence accessible to android users!
@Primokorn: Thanks a zillion for starting this crucial discussion. I don't know how often i pointed out these issues.
Of course, i also have some aesthetic preferences. But diving through endless reefs of startup animation replacements, battery monitor alternatives and half-baked theme studies is not what i expected xda-developers.com to end up, 12 years after i started being around.
In my eyes, the whole aftermarket ado should be concentrated on maintaining the independency of the most popular mobile operating system of the universe by it's users. Crucial topics be
Liberating the app distribution architecture
Optimizing the permission restriction system
There are great approaches like the Aroma Installer, that have been employed to supply user friendly means for debloating and debranding. Have a look at the Screenshots of stockymod.
@nutpants:
And I harp non stop to developers and leave feedback on apps that don't support offline use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do the same thing to official institutions when they release apps. If i wasn't in that hyper-busy age around 40, i'd start a little riot about publicly funded software that ends up being published behind the wellknown golden cages exclusively. The necessity to change this in a grassroot movement is obvious.

Apkmirror.com

Did not know these existed, going to check this out!

Why isn't there custom opensource bootloaders like custom recoveries for android phones ?

This may be stupid, but I couldn't find any resources regarding this. We have custom recoveries for android devices but why isn't there custom bootloaders like there is for PCs ? Like in the PC space we have the likes of reFind and gnu grub.
Thanks

There are some instances of alternate bootloader projects. Just that they are not popular,
[Bootloader] LK for Xperia T
LK for Xperia T LT30p Only - Unlocked Bootloader Required WARNING 1: This modification makes changes to the devices partition table. I (lilstevie) am not responsible for any damage to your device or data loss that may occur. WARNING 2: ICS...
forum.xda-developers.com
EFIDroid
EFIDroid is a easy to use, powerful 2ndstage-bootloader based on EDKII(UEFI). It can be installed one-click with the EFIDroidManager app. You can add/remove/edit multiboot ROM's. There's no special support needed by ROM's or RecoveryTools(no...
forum.xda-developers.com
The developer of EFIdroid stopped developing in 2019.
efidroid on Android 9 and 10 devices ? · Issue #152 · efidroid/projectmanagement
Hi, I just want to know if efidroid supports devices with 6 GB RAM and 64/128 GB Storage devices running Android 9 and Android 10 ? thanks.
github.com

Not to mention you would need OEM's to cooperate....

Thanks @karandpr for that github comment a lot of info there. Thanks @galaxys too. So a quick summary would be that the reason is that for the bootloader to work smoothly there has to be support from the kernel too, which the OEMs should do and probably would not. But I didn't think about the support in the kernel was an issue. That does seem to be a lot of work and I see the reason now.

al_l_en said:
Thanks @karandpr for that github comment a lot of info there. Thanks @galaxys too. So a quick summary would be that the reason is that for the bootloader to work smoothly there has to be support from the kernel too, which the OEMs should do and probably would not. But I didn't think about the support in the kernel was an issue. That does seem to be a lot of work and I see the reason now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think Google intends to open up android anymore. They want restrictions like iOS but pretend to be open source for the "goodwill". What's the use of AOSP if you cant effectively install it on a device or your important apps don't work?
I believe PinePhones are the ones that can have truly open-source compatible hardware. The specs are underwhelming but the community is really good.
You can get spares easily and the battery is removable.
Only thing is they are mostly out of stock.

karandpr said:
I don't think Google intends to open up android anymore. They want restrictions like iOS but pretend to be open source for the "goodwill". What's the use of AOSP if you cant effectively install it on a device or your important apps don't work?
I believe PinePhones are the ones that can have truly open-source compatible hardware. The specs are underwhelming but the community is really good.
You can get spares easily and the battery is removable.
Only thing is they are mostly out of stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah those are great but the problem is that they are not usable for "normies" which will prevent mass adoption and hence cannot have a sustainable business model.
But I think google is not the only one to blame, like couldn't the OEMs actually provide bootloaders that can boot signed os images. Or is there any technical or security difficuties in doing that.

al_l_en said:
Yeah those are great but the problem is that they are not usable for "normies" which will prevent mass adoption and hence cannot have a sustainable business model.
But I think google is not the only one to blame, like couldn't the OEMs actually provide bootloaders that can boot signed os images. Or is there any technical or security difficuties in doing that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normies are afraid to change the default browser, so bootloader is really out of their leagues.
Phone tinkering is a hobby, not a necessity. Phone tinkering itself is not a sustainable model.
Google is to blame primarily. Because they have a stringent list of requirements for devices to pass CTS. You can read the bootloader requirement and judge yourself.
Android 11 Compatibility Definition | Android Open Source Project
source.android.com
Without passing CTS, devices cannot use Google apps, they cannot get push notifications and they cannot pass SafetyNet checks used by most banking apps.
At the end of the day do I want to spend 100s of hours to bring a feature to an android phone which will probably be used by 10 users and deprecated by the time I finish doing it?
or do I want to buy a phone which will allow me to tinker freely in a community and ecosystem which allows modification?
For our tinkering pleasures, Pinephone is the way to go for now. They have support from Manjaro, Debian and KDE. Which is a big thing IMO.
Or else there you can roll your thing in RaspberryPi?

While going through related details I found an article about google probably switching to hardware based safetynet checks which could be ending google play compatibility on custom roms.
It really seems like google is using security as an excuse to make sure that there are no competitors in their business space.
Maybe this is because I have been only doing web development and only started learning app dev, but the reasons google use for CTS like for enforcing DRM, is also handled on websites while allowing openness and being neutral (or maybe the web is not as secure as something like this, so forgive me if I am wrong). Android could really take pages off the web ecosystem for being a neutral platform.
I really appreciate the patience for hearing out and also the references(and the rabbit holes that it was followed by) really taught me a lot about general android architecture.

al_l_en said:
While going through related details I found an article about google probably switching to hardware based safetynet checks which could be ending google play compatibility on custom roms.
It really seems like google is using security as an excuse to make sure that there are no competitors in their business space.
Maybe this is because I have been only doing web development and only started learning app dev, but the reasons google use for CTS like for enforcing DRM, is also handled on websites while allowing openness and being neutral (or maybe the web is not as secure as something like this, so forgive me if I am wrong). Android could really take pages off the web ecosystem for being a neutral platform.
I really appreciate the patience for hearing out and also the references(and the rabbit holes that it was followed by) really taught me a lot about general android architecture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theoretically, Google can end GPlay compatibility on Custom ROMs anytime they wish. It's just that lot of App Developers don't use SafetyNet the way it is intended and Google doesn't roll out its strict check. They do it once in a while.
They don't have any competitors in their business space. It's a very well-thought monopoly.
CTS restricts Google Play API access to vendor operating systems. So vendors like Samsung, OnePlus and others have to play by their rules. IIRC, the cost of Play API is around 15$ per device but it is subsidized for large quantities.
End users don't really care about Play API. But App Developers do.
Without Play services, there is no easy way to integrate push notifications, ads, maps, analytics, metrics, and so on. Rolling your own thing will take years to develop and won't work as seamlessly as the play service counterparts.
I don't think Google will ever cede their monetary interests for open collaboration.

karandpr said:
I don't think Google will ever cede their monetary interests for open collaboration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah that's for sure. The only way this monopoly can break is when an opensource alternative to google play services and other apis exist and while doing that it must be compatible with the existing google apis. And that is probably not going to happen in a long time. Although microg does solve this to some extent, but still it is a second citizen.
Some of the functionality is already there, like most of the google apps like docs and drive could replaced by nextcloud and then maps could be replaced by osmand. If some company, preferably an OEM, comes and integrates all of these into a package maybe there's hope. I think /e/ os tries to do this to some extent.

You might find this resource useful. As they have gone over a comprehensive set of bootloader software and tried to outline their primary features in detail. Hopefully, you’ll be able to determine the best one for your use case. https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-linux-bootloader-for-home-and-embedded-systems/