Related
So, I bricked my last A2 and had it replaced and the one they gave me is horrific (bunch of issues...). Anyway, I know I have to unroot, they will most certainly detect that. However, What about bootstrap? Do you think they will notice that when they bring it to the back to do their "troubleshooting"? Because I was just planning on unrooting and then uninstalling bootstrap app (incase they know what that is, i know that that wont remove they bootstrap). So, what are your opinions on that?
Fzx back to stock.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
tmease1 said:
Fzx back to stock.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah thats never worked out well for me...
okachowwa said:
So, I bricked my last A2 and had it replaced and the one they gave me is horrific (bunch of issues...). Anyway, I know I have to unroot, they will most certainly detect that. However, What about bootstrap? Do you think they will notice that when they bring it to the back to do their "troubleshooting"? Because I was just planning on unrooting and then uninstalling bootstrap app (incase they know what that is, i know that that wont remove they bootstrap). So, what are your opinions on that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Throw it in a microwave to kill it so it wont turn on.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
matt99017d said:
Throw it in a microwave to kill it so it wont turn on.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ever since I bought a Moto phone I feel the need to do that every day
okachowwa said:
Ever since I bought a Moto phone I feel the need to do that every day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol.
Me too.....
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
matt99017d said:
Lol.
Me too.....
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Horrible mistake. Live and Learn...unless youre a sophmore who doesnt have any money and is stuck with it for another year...omg.
okachowwa said:
Horrible mistake. Live and Learn...unless youre a sophmore who doesnt have any money and is stuck with it for another year...omg.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My case lol
Sent from my locked MB865
Not sure if I'm completely off topic but don't want to start a new thread either: so does AT&T/Motorola salvage the bricked phones returned/exchanged under warranty? I understand if you microwave it, it's gone for good, but otherwise do they have a way to salvage a phone with hosed bootloader or hard bricking? Will it require special hardware setup to recover these phones? I am sure bricking would be a common phenomena in Moto's lab ...
OMG, just took a look at your sign - okachowwa - your smartphone's histories usage so terrible ...
vinamilk said:
OMG, just took a look at your sign - okachowwa - your smartphone's histories usage so terrible ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude's also only 15, which it states as well, and to cut the kid some slack!
Launched from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 Anti-MOTO Ballistic Missile
vinamilk said:
OMG, just took a look at your sign - okachowwa - your smartphone's histories usage so terrible ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey now lol. I try I try. I totally fixed my Captivate...after I bought this AWESOME phone. But I didn't brick this one, it was a bad replacement, and my last one, yeah FXZ confused me so my ignorance overtook my ability to fix it, because I couldnt find the files on the forums (links were down) and flashed wrong ones (live and learn?). But yes, being a sophmore in high school I probably shouldn't being doing this stuff as I don't have any money lol.
kousik said:
Not sure if I'm completely off topic but don't want to start a new thread either: so does AT&T/Motorola salvage the bricked phones returned/exchanged under warranty? I understand if you microwave it, it's gone for good, but otherwise do they have a way to salvage a phone with hosed bootloader or hard bricking? Will it require special hardware setup to recover these phones? I am sure bricking would be a common phenomena in Moto's lab ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, unless the EMMC is corrupted beyond redemption they have special flashing tools to restore phones to a usable condition. Just think about when the phone is made; it is a blank slate. They have to have a way to flash it initially. They can use a similar method to resurrect it if it is not damaged beyond repair.
jboxer said:
Yes, unless the EMMC is corrupted beyond redemption they have special flashing tools to restore phones to a usable condition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm ... that's exactly is my point; if it is all software, why doesn't it leak like RSDlite? Then users could recover these bricked phones themselves and no need of these warranty calls. It must be some special hardware (to be connected to JTAG?) which even our service centers do not have available. Then we could take our out of warranty phones to them and get it restored for a small fee. Now if I take a bricked phone to them, they change the motherboard and charge ~30% of the phone value.
kousik said:
Hmmm ... that's exactly is my point; if it is all software, why doesn't it leak like RSDlite? Then users could recover these bricked phones themselves and no need of these warranty calls. It must be some special hardware (to be connected to JTAG?) which even our service centers do not have available. Then we could take our out of warranty phones to them and get it restored for a small fee. Now if I take a bricked phone to them, they change the motherboard and charge ~30% of the phone value.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is because there is an efuse that was blown as part of this process, and you can't unblow a fuse/efuse. That is why you are getting new boards. I was at one the AT&T service centers last week and we looked at one of the bricks, and it did throw 2 efuses that I could find. We could connect them to JTAG with the correct connetions, but we could NOT see the phone from the JTAG device/software.
jimbridgman said:
That is because there is an efuse that was blown as part of this process, and you can't unblow a fuse/efuse. That is why you are getting new boards. I was at one the AT&T service centers last week and we looked at one of the bricks, and it did throw 2 efuses that I could find. We could connect them to JTAG with the correct connetions, but we could NOT see the phone from the JTAG device/software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it not an inefficient (or dangerous (or suicidal)) design that if you overwrite the bootloader (even by an older version) then a efuse blows somewhere and the motherboard becomes useless. You may refuse to boot if the bootloader isn't trusted but killing the phone in the process sounds too bad to me. Would this happen with phones with unlocked bootloader too?
kousik said:
Is it not an inefficient (or dangerous (or suicidal)) design that if you overwrite the bootloader (even by an older version) then a efuse blows somewhere and the motherboard becomes useless. You may refuse to boot if the bootloader isn't trusted but killing the phone in the process sounds too bad to me. Would this happen with phones with unlocked bootloader too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is a Motorola ONLY thing, as inefficient as it might be. There is no need for anything like is in a unlocked bootloader phone. This happens because these phones are just like iphones in that Motorola does NOT want us "playing" with them, or doing any kind of dev work on them, Moto phones have a HUGE history of being non developer friendly. That is also why certain devs like me find them a challenge and want to "breakthrough" all that.
jimbridgman said:
No, this is a Motorola ONLY thing, as inefficient as it might be. There is no need for anything like is in a unlocked bootloader phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, except their managers we all see how it backfired. It doesn't interfere with people who wants to stay stock, and if it gets bricked doing some dev, they get a warranty call (and maybe they have to swap in 90% cases). Doesn't help anyone.
However I had a Milestone before (why did I buy another Moto afterwards questions my sanity) but even if it had a locked bootloader (and after stock 2.1 no update was given), devs could port froyo and finally CM7 and CM9. I am hoping in spite of the lock, we'll be able to port CM9/10, keeping the kernel same. I am hopeful as LG Thrill 4G, Motorola Droid 3 has CM9 already.
Well I'm offtopic already so don't bother replying
Created this bounty thread hoping to find a way to reset our KNOX counter to 0x0. It's great that @designgears and @Chainfire found a way to root without tripping the Knox counter, but unfortunately a lot of us have already voided our warranty using the old way.
I know it's a long shot and almost impossible (as far as we know) to reset the Knox counter, so I'm hoping there's a dev out there that would be willing to give this a shot and see if it can be done. I'm sure there are tons of people out here in the xda community who would like to have their mind at ease knowing that their warranty will still be good when they need their phone serviced.
So I'll start off with donating $20 to the first person that finds a way to reset the infamous knox flag!
May 5th 2014
Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been able to update this thread. I've been really busy with work and my family. Any time I have to go on XDA is simply just checking up on some PM's and maybe some quick browsing. When I get the chance (hopefully soon) I will update the OP with some missed donations that I have missed. I don't even know what the update is on this whole KNOX fiasco. What I do know, is that was 4.4.2 came out, KNOX was updated to 3.0. I would assume that finding a solution is probably harder than ever.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
Donations so far,
Me- $20
@NoEnd- $20
@Skander1998- $120
@Kinoal- $30
@Imoseyon- $20
@zylor- $50
@xda_q8 -$100
@Yuhfhrh- $20
@odeccacccp- $20
@Poisyx -80€
@danieljamie - £10
@Raphy511- $5
@apd- $20
@Jack Barrett- $10
@checkmateyou- $50
@mrQQ- $20
@Meanee- $20
@Steezy5- $20
@micger21- $20
@Kingybear- $20
@zbz999- $20
@Action B- $10
@yulet- $10
@Virusbetax- $30
@ytwytw- $20
@piit79- $40
@erubey21- $20
@perosredo- $10
@lordmusik- $50
@LemonPowerForce- $50
@AUSTAB2012- $20
@samuraiofu- $20
@valix2fr- $30
@Wayne7497- $100
@vincedoggy- $50
@almacncheese- $2
@simon2k10- $20
@iakovidis- $20
@GeorgEveS- $20
@kakyyabata- $20
@Café King- $20
@dukhan- $80
@zocster- $20
@Shadowjump- $5
@oofol- $20
@maniacscorpio- $20
@iceghost1210- $20
@chrisrotolo- $25
@Volrath- $20
@apfelsaftkotzer- $10
@layercake87- 10€
@moto211- $10
@radicalisto- £10
@tongueman87- $20
@alesa1988- 20€
@bones718- $10
@k4syx- $10
@Michuta- 10€
@m7md garrah- $250
@droidan- $52
@madridfran- $10
@trubster- $25
@dpoverlord - $20
@dukhan - $6
@OmarManLover- $20
@Maroc_Specops- $10
@ramsenn- $4
@ysr84- $40
@ashT1971- $40
@iT iS Me- $11
@eraybozkurt- $50
@vinokirk- $10
@Cyenominerva- $10
@cocokasper- $20
@hussam1988- $10
@theunderling- $40
@Bitmixer- $20
@censor2005- $15
@otakuloser- $20
@r3scue- $13
@leboural- $20
@Hepokatti- $20
@redwhiteblackandblue- $12
@IOU-1- $13
@mr sharpey- $30
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Knox will prevail! Hil the mighty KNOX! ;D Lol.. great thread man. I will def follow =)
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_frog hair said:
Knox will prevail! Hil the mighty KNOX! ;D Lol.. great thread man. I will def follow =)
Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a strong feeling that KNOX will end up winning ?. But we'll never know if we don't try.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
I was wondering how they can make knox irreversible.
One idea i came up with is there could be a piece of hardware that is triggered, irreversibly by maybe destroying it.
Does anyone else think it could be linked to hardware?
I pledge by $20
Please keep a record of all pledges with the total in 1st or 2nd post
Thanks
40$ here.
My counter is still 0x0, but not for long as I'm tempted to just flash everything beyond control
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
I pledge 30$ here!
iankellogg said:
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no concrete evidence that it is an e-FUSE.
All is speculation.
Skander1998 said:
There is no concrete evidence that it is an e-FUSE.
All is speculation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The speculation is that KNOX is using an E-FUSE. chainfire has said everything he can tell its an e-fuse. The S800 has at least 1 E-FUSE register that I know of and I think maybe 4 total.
NoEnd said:
I pledge by $20
Please keep a record of all pledges with the total in 1st or 2nd post
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Record of pledges is now posted
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
iankellogg said:
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard this too....
Nothing is impossible if it hasn't been tried.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
iankellogg said:
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an expert, but guessing if KNOX is a hardware validation, can we replace this chip or manipulate with it?
NoEnd said:
I'm not an expert, but guessing if KNOX is a hardware validation, can we replace this chip or manipulate with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the EFUSE is built into the Qualcomm S800 chipset. So there is no practical way to fix it.
iankellogg said:
the EFUSE is built into the Qualcomm S800 chipset. So there is no practical way to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
other smartphones like the G2 uses the same chipset, how come they don't have the same validation?
I guess that either Samsung have their own version of S800 or there is another chipset in the system represents KNOX.
NoEnd said:
other smartphones like the G2 uses the same chipset, how come they don't have the same validation?
I guess that either Samsung have their own version of S800 or there is another chipset in the system represents KNOX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I was wrong about the number of Efuses (which qualcomm calls QFuses) THere are over 100 of these QFuses. THey can be used for pretty much anything the manufacture wants (from what I have read all manufactures use QFuses for disabling Debugging). All Qualcomm chips and pretty much any CPU or FPGA on the market has at least 1 EFuse. It is up to the company to determine how those are used. LG decided against using EFuse checks in their bootloader. Samsung decided it was the only way to make Knox secure.
iankellogg said:
So I was wrong about the number of Efuses (which qualcomm calls QFuses) THere are over 100 of these QFuses. THey can be used for pretty much anything the manufacture wants (from what I have read all manufactures use QFuses for disabling Debugging). All Qualcomm chips and pretty much any CPU or FPGA on the market has at least 1 EFuse. It is up to the company to determine how those are used. LG decided against using EFuse checks in their bootloader. Samsung decided it was the only way to make Knox secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok now I understood your point
Thanks for explaining
NoEnd said:
other smartphones like the G2 uses the same chipset, how come they don't have the same validation?
I guess that either Samsung have their own version of S800 or there is another chipset in the system represents KNOX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you have to remember is that Qualcomm license their chipsets out, but it's up to the device manufacturer to use it however they want. Not all features get used or enabled and not all will be used for the same purpose. They all use efuses for things like disabling debugging and such but Samsung has potentially chosen to use it as a hardware flag for Knox.
kaos_king said:
I was wondering how they can make knox irreversible.
One idea i came up with is there could be a piece of hardware that is triggered, irreversibly by maybe destroying it.
Does anyone else think it could be linked to hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you're describing is an "efuse". It's a well known method of securing a system to prevent it from doing things like downgrades. It's a piece of hardware, as you describe, that gets permanently "blown". This is nothing like a traditional fuse that you can replace, it's a tiny, tiny part of the silicon inside the CPU itself. You can't "repair" it, it's only a few nm in size. It would be easier to thread a needle using two Boeing 747's.
Anyway...
The efuse thing is, at this time, speculation. There's a lot of evidence to say it's an efuse being used but nothing concrete as of yet. There's a good chance we may never be able to reset the Knox flag, however it has been shown that we can at least bypass it in certain instances.
neoKushan said:
What you have to remember is that Qualcomm license their chipsets out, but it's up to the device manufacturer to use it however they want. Not all features get used or enabled and not all will be used for the same purpose. They all use efuses for things like disabling debugging and such but Samsung has potentially chosen to use it as a hardware flag for Knox.
What you're describing is an "efuse". It's a well known method of securing a system to prevent it from doing things like downgrades. It's a piece of hardware, as you describe, that gets permanently "blown". This is nothing like a traditional fuse that you can replace, it's a tiny, tiny part of the silicon inside the CPU itself. You can't "repair" it, it's only a few nm in size. It would be easier to thread a needle using two Boeing 747's.
Anyway...
The efuse thing is, at this time, speculation. There's a lot of evidence to say it's an efuse being used but nothing concrete as of yet. There's a good chance we may never be able to reset the Knox flag, however it has been shown that we can at least bypass it in certain instances.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To add to this. The motorola bootloader for the atrix, razr and others used an EFuse to lock the bootloader and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here now for samsung. If you aren't familar, Motorola's bootloader can not be unlocked (unless its a dev phone) and their solution to people was to give them a coupon to buy a new device that didn't have a locked bootloader. I have no faith that we will be able to reverse KNOX flag or be able to unlock the bootloaders but I do have confidence that we will have a safestrap.
I've been researching this for a couple of weeks, and have finally managed to change the Flag of Knox on the Bootloader... at the moment, I'm no closer to actually repairing the 0x1 counter, but it does let us know that it is indeed software/firmware related.
Attached file look at Knox Warranty : 0xffffffc and Knox Kernel Lock: 0xffffffc
Regards,
Mat
Interesting work. Perhaps you can share your work or research.
"All men are created equal, some work harder in pre-season."
- Emmitt Smith
It seems you are right but there has to be some kind of encryption...
And why is this a new topic is discussed after the other and I told you what is obtained 0xffffffc
OP, did you use some hex/low level editing to change that value?
Sent from an utter FAIL phone
Febby said:
Interesting work. Perhaps you can share your work or research.
"All men are created equal, some work harder in pre-season."
- Emmitt Smith
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The quote is killing me lol
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What happens if you now do something that trips the flag? Does it go 0xfffffffd?
Sent from my GT-I9305 using xda app-developers app
Wow I thought aboot sent a command to the TrustZone kernel to set the fuse. Where did you find this flag? Newer versions of aboot will probably verify it using public key cryptography.
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MemoryController said:
Wow I thought aboot sent a command to the TrustZone kernel to set the fuse. Where did you find this flag? Newer versions of aboot will probably verify it using public key cryptography.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that seems to be done since the new KnoxBootloader came into the phone, it looking for matching keys and if they're not present well it will trigger Knox 0x1 and it seems like it won't kill your warranty, but i'm not sure how its outside EU but several people claimed that it doesn't void the warranty (except US)
Well as i'm not wrong it's even stated by samsung that it looks for keys and if it's not the correct key the Knox will be triggered and the TIMA (Knox) won't working unless you somehow contact a service center for help (but yeah it seems even if you've rooted your phone) which means you'll get knox 0x1 you're still able to get the Knox but well that explains much but seems to be not an efuse due to the mention by samsung that it uses keys and also that it can be fixed bla bla
galnet said:
I've been researching this for a couple of weeks, and have finally managed to change the Flag of Knox on the Bootloader... at the moment, I'm no closer to actually repairing the 0x1 counter, but it does let us know that it is indeed software/firmware related.
Attached file look at Knox Warranty : 0xffffffc and Knox Kernel Lock: 0xffffffc
Regards,
Mat
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you make the "eMMC Brust Mode" unenable?
SimonGleinert said:
How do you make the "eMMC Brust Mode" unenable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the picture it's enabled...? :what:
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yeah, if u trip knox again, what is gonna happen? maybe u can make overflow that variable!
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nice work out there, waiting for more! good to know it isn't hardware protection, because I triggered it
If it's reversible I'm updating to the new bootloader ASAP, I really dig the MJ7 LTE modem
Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk
Yes in order to be sure, I think you should try to reflash an old bootloader to see if the flag will be set again to 0x1. If not...
How should he do that? With a JTAG?
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Hmmm I'm going to be checking back on this.
@galnet rather than just posting a picture it would be much more progressive for you to document your research, findings, techniques/methods, seeing as how that's most in the spirit of xda.
CNexus said:
@galnet rather than just posting a picture it would be much more progressive for you to document your research, findings, techniques/methods, seeing as how that's most in the spirit of xda.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you release information which you knew could brick peoples phones, because you do know that anything that is printed here, people will go try and then come back crying..
I've known in the past this occurring, and god don't start about the XDA way, the XDA way is still the reason why I don't say much now a days!
galnet said:
Would you release information which you knew could brick peoples phones, because you do know that anything that is printed here, people will go try and then come back crying..
I've known in the past this occurring, and god don't start about the XDA way, the XDA way is still the reason why I don't say much now a days!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why put a big "DEV" or "R&D" tag in the title, and stick it in the developers only section. If anyone has issues as a result of it afterward, you can't say you didn't warn them.
As with many things in life, I'm sure the benefits would outweigh the costs if you simply shared your work.
Of course, in the end it's your choice and no one can force you to do anything.
But realize that there are other ways to go about this. A private hangout for example, or G+ community, or something like that. I simply think discussion would be beneficial.
hi guys!
i guess i have to get the mother board of my s7 (never heard of a phone with so many problems with the motherboard..) and luckily it's still in warranty.
i'd like to know if samsung (actually i guess vodafone as i bought with vodafone) will charge me because i rooted the phone and i have the know counter triggered
thanks a lot!
Flash stock ROM back. In many regions a knox trigger doesn't invalidate warranty.
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takerhbk said:
Flash stock ROM back. In many regions a knox trigger doesn't invalidate warranty.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks a lot, i'll do it! finger crossed
I may have the same issue than you. My phone mostly freezes when its a bit hot (for example after charging). What did you say to samsung and did they replace the mainboard?
Since it is mostly unrecoverable, something has to physically happen. Any idea what it is?
Nothing changes physically except the values in the flash memory. You completely lose access to the device.
Some devices may use efuses which when blown physically break an electrical pathway permanently. Example Samsung Knox efuse.
blackhawk said:
Nothing changes physically except the values in the flash memory. You completely lose access to the device.
Some devices may use efuses which when blown physically break an electrical pathway permanently. Example Samsung Knox efuse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't a Samsung Knox thing(software), it is a Qualcomm(hardware) thing, known as Qfuse. It is put there by Qcom to protect the interests of Samsung and mobile carriers.
Droidriven said:
It isn't a Samsung Knox thing(software), it is a Qualcomm(hardware) thing, known as Qfuse. It is put there by Qcom to protect the interests of Samsung and mobile carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Knox is also hardware backed, and also has a fuse that is blown upon root, or being otherwise triggered.
Droidriven said:
It isn't a Samsung Knox thing(software), it is a Qualcomm(hardware) thing, known as Qfuse. It is put there by Qcom to protect the interests of Samsung and mobile carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which brings me to the question does the exynos soc have efuses?
blackhawk said:
Which brings me to the question does the exynos soc have efuses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I think they do, the SoC is exynos but I believe they still has Qcom components on the board as well, including Qfuse.
Arealhooman said:
Samsung Knox is also hardware backed, and also has a fuse that is blown upon root, or being otherwise triggered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is hardware backed by Qfuse, when Knox is triggered, the Qfuse is blown. That is what I meant by it being a factor of Qcom hardware, they are linked, but the Qcom hardware is where the rubber meets the road, not the Samsung Knox security measures. Pulling the trigger(Samsung knox) fires the missile but the warhead itself(Qfuse) is what does the work of destroying the target.
Droidriven said:
Yes, I think they do, the SoC is exynos but I believe they still has Qcom components on the board as well, including Qfuse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The efuse is in the soc, I believe. Didn't easy find much on the exynos efuse. Could be firmware only. Since I never had that soc and run stock it's only a curiosity to me at this point.