Created this bounty thread hoping to find a way to reset our KNOX counter to 0x0. It's great that @designgears and @Chainfire found a way to root without tripping the Knox counter, but unfortunately a lot of us have already voided our warranty using the old way.
I know it's a long shot and almost impossible (as far as we know) to reset the Knox counter, so I'm hoping there's a dev out there that would be willing to give this a shot and see if it can be done. I'm sure there are tons of people out here in the xda community who would like to have their mind at ease knowing that their warranty will still be good when they need their phone serviced.
So I'll start off with donating $20 to the first person that finds a way to reset the infamous knox flag!
May 5th 2014
Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been able to update this thread. I've been really busy with work and my family. Any time I have to go on XDA is simply just checking up on some PM's and maybe some quick browsing. When I get the chance (hopefully soon) I will update the OP with some missed donations that I have missed. I don't even know what the update is on this whole KNOX fiasco. What I do know, is that was 4.4.2 came out, KNOX was updated to 3.0. I would assume that finding a solution is probably harder than ever.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
Donations so far,
Me- $20
@NoEnd- $20
@Skander1998- $120
@Kinoal- $30
@Imoseyon- $20
@zylor- $50
@xda_q8 -$100
@Yuhfhrh- $20
@odeccacccp- $20
@Poisyx -80€
@danieljamie - £10
@Raphy511- $5
@apd- $20
@Jack Barrett- $10
@checkmateyou- $50
@mrQQ- $20
@Meanee- $20
@Steezy5- $20
@micger21- $20
@Kingybear- $20
@zbz999- $20
@Action B- $10
@yulet- $10
@Virusbetax- $30
@ytwytw- $20
@piit79- $40
@erubey21- $20
@perosredo- $10
@lordmusik- $50
@LemonPowerForce- $50
@AUSTAB2012- $20
@samuraiofu- $20
@valix2fr- $30
@Wayne7497- $100
@vincedoggy- $50
@almacncheese- $2
@simon2k10- $20
@iakovidis- $20
@GeorgEveS- $20
@kakyyabata- $20
@Café King- $20
@dukhan- $80
@zocster- $20
@Shadowjump- $5
@oofol- $20
@maniacscorpio- $20
@iceghost1210- $20
@chrisrotolo- $25
@Volrath- $20
@apfelsaftkotzer- $10
@layercake87- 10€
@moto211- $10
@radicalisto- £10
@tongueman87- $20
@alesa1988- 20€
@bones718- $10
@k4syx- $10
@Michuta- 10€
@m7md garrah- $250
@droidan- $52
@madridfran- $10
@trubster- $25
@dpoverlord - $20
@dukhan - $6
@OmarManLover- $20
@Maroc_Specops- $10
@ramsenn- $4
@ysr84- $40
@ashT1971- $40
@iT iS Me- $11
@eraybozkurt- $50
@vinokirk- $10
@Cyenominerva- $10
@cocokasper- $20
@hussam1988- $10
@theunderling- $40
@Bitmixer- $20
@censor2005- $15
@otakuloser- $20
@r3scue- $13
@leboural- $20
@Hepokatti- $20
@redwhiteblackandblue- $12
@IOU-1- $13
@mr sharpey- $30
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
Knox will prevail! Hil the mighty KNOX! ;D Lol.. great thread man. I will def follow =)
Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk
_frog hair said:
Knox will prevail! Hil the mighty KNOX! ;D Lol.. great thread man. I will def follow =)
Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a strong feeling that KNOX will end up winning ?. But we'll never know if we don't try.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
I was wondering how they can make knox irreversible.
One idea i came up with is there could be a piece of hardware that is triggered, irreversibly by maybe destroying it.
Does anyone else think it could be linked to hardware?
I pledge by $20
Please keep a record of all pledges with the total in 1st or 2nd post
Thanks
40$ here.
My counter is still 0x0, but not for long as I'm tempted to just flash everything beyond control
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
I pledge 30$ here!
iankellogg said:
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no concrete evidence that it is an e-FUSE.
All is speculation.
Skander1998 said:
There is no concrete evidence that it is an e-FUSE.
All is speculation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The speculation is that KNOX is using an E-FUSE. chainfire has said everything he can tell its an e-fuse. The S800 has at least 1 E-FUSE register that I know of and I think maybe 4 total.
NoEnd said:
I pledge by $20
Please keep a record of all pledges with the total in 1st or 2nd post
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Record of pledges is now posted
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
iankellogg said:
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard this too....
Nothing is impossible if it hasn't been tried.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
iankellogg said:
THe knox flag is an EFUSE, you will NEVER be able to reset it back to 0. It is PHYSICALLY destroyed in the S800 chip and there is no way to change that fact. The best you can hope for custom bootloader that fakes the flag. But they will always be able to check the flag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an expert, but guessing if KNOX is a hardware validation, can we replace this chip or manipulate with it?
NoEnd said:
I'm not an expert, but guessing if KNOX is a hardware validation, can we replace this chip or manipulate with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the EFUSE is built into the Qualcomm S800 chipset. So there is no practical way to fix it.
iankellogg said:
the EFUSE is built into the Qualcomm S800 chipset. So there is no practical way to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
other smartphones like the G2 uses the same chipset, how come they don't have the same validation?
I guess that either Samsung have their own version of S800 or there is another chipset in the system represents KNOX.
NoEnd said:
other smartphones like the G2 uses the same chipset, how come they don't have the same validation?
I guess that either Samsung have their own version of S800 or there is another chipset in the system represents KNOX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I was wrong about the number of Efuses (which qualcomm calls QFuses) THere are over 100 of these QFuses. THey can be used for pretty much anything the manufacture wants (from what I have read all manufactures use QFuses for disabling Debugging). All Qualcomm chips and pretty much any CPU or FPGA on the market has at least 1 EFuse. It is up to the company to determine how those are used. LG decided against using EFuse checks in their bootloader. Samsung decided it was the only way to make Knox secure.
iankellogg said:
So I was wrong about the number of Efuses (which qualcomm calls QFuses) THere are over 100 of these QFuses. THey can be used for pretty much anything the manufacture wants (from what I have read all manufactures use QFuses for disabling Debugging). All Qualcomm chips and pretty much any CPU or FPGA on the market has at least 1 EFuse. It is up to the company to determine how those are used. LG decided against using EFuse checks in their bootloader. Samsung decided it was the only way to make Knox secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok now I understood your point
Thanks for explaining
NoEnd said:
other smartphones like the G2 uses the same chipset, how come they don't have the same validation?
I guess that either Samsung have their own version of S800 or there is another chipset in the system represents KNOX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you have to remember is that Qualcomm license their chipsets out, but it's up to the device manufacturer to use it however they want. Not all features get used or enabled and not all will be used for the same purpose. They all use efuses for things like disabling debugging and such but Samsung has potentially chosen to use it as a hardware flag for Knox.
kaos_king said:
I was wondering how they can make knox irreversible.
One idea i came up with is there could be a piece of hardware that is triggered, irreversibly by maybe destroying it.
Does anyone else think it could be linked to hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you're describing is an "efuse". It's a well known method of securing a system to prevent it from doing things like downgrades. It's a piece of hardware, as you describe, that gets permanently "blown". This is nothing like a traditional fuse that you can replace, it's a tiny, tiny part of the silicon inside the CPU itself. You can't "repair" it, it's only a few nm in size. It would be easier to thread a needle using two Boeing 747's.
Anyway...
The efuse thing is, at this time, speculation. There's a lot of evidence to say it's an efuse being used but nothing concrete as of yet. There's a good chance we may never be able to reset the Knox flag, however it has been shown that we can at least bypass it in certain instances.
neoKushan said:
What you have to remember is that Qualcomm license their chipsets out, but it's up to the device manufacturer to use it however they want. Not all features get used or enabled and not all will be used for the same purpose. They all use efuses for things like disabling debugging and such but Samsung has potentially chosen to use it as a hardware flag for Knox.
What you're describing is an "efuse". It's a well known method of securing a system to prevent it from doing things like downgrades. It's a piece of hardware, as you describe, that gets permanently "blown". This is nothing like a traditional fuse that you can replace, it's a tiny, tiny part of the silicon inside the CPU itself. You can't "repair" it, it's only a few nm in size. It would be easier to thread a needle using two Boeing 747's.
Anyway...
The efuse thing is, at this time, speculation. There's a lot of evidence to say it's an efuse being used but nothing concrete as of yet. There's a good chance we may never be able to reset the Knox flag, however it has been shown that we can at least bypass it in certain instances.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To add to this. The motorola bootloader for the atrix, razr and others used an EFuse to lock the bootloader and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here now for samsung. If you aren't familar, Motorola's bootloader can not be unlocked (unless its a dev phone) and their solution to people was to give them a coupon to buy a new device that didn't have a locked bootloader. I have no faith that we will be able to reverse KNOX flag or be able to unlock the bootloaders but I do have confidence that we will have a safestrap.
Related
How hard would it be to replace the charging port on the phone? Mine is on the brink of death and a whole new phone isnt exactly in the card right now so I thought about just replacing the charging port, but I dont know what all would go into it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
I'm not sure about replacing but have you thought about buying an extra battery that comes with a charger for just the battery so you just switch out the battery when it dies. I got mine for like $15 on eBay
Sent from my galaxy s 4g using XDA app
For sixty bucks plus shipping you can send it in for repair.
http://www.stlouiscellphonerepair.com/sam-vibrant4g-charging-port-repair.html
Replacing it wouldn't be that hard for someone with some skills with small electronics. If you or a friend have those skills should be pretty painless. If not use that link that eellio sent you or find a repair shop in your area.
falcons2 said:
I'm not sure about replacing but have you thought about buying an extra battery that comes with a charger for just the battery so you just switch out the battery when it dies. I got mine for like $15 on eBay
Sent from my galaxy s 4g using XDA app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
eollie said:
For sixty bucks plus shipping you can send it in for repair.
http://www.stlouiscellphonerepair.com/sam-vibrant4g-charging-port-repair.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the link eollie but i think i'll go with falcon's idea adn just snag a battery and charger. or if i can find someone with good enough soldering skills that i trust, i'll try to fix it.
i'm on the phone right now trying to see if i can get it replaced under insurance, we'll see how that goes
I thought about telling about an external charger but that wont help you with hooking your phone to the computer......same port :-/.....and if its going bad.....
Shortbus-Driver said:
I thought about telling about an external charger but that wont help you with hooking your phone to the computer......same port :-/.....and if its going bad.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my reason for looking to get it fixed. I have pretty good soldering skills and I woulndt attempt it.
Juls if they will warranty it I would go that route. I figured it was out of warranty.
Side note, has anybody attempted to get mobile odin ported to the sgs4g? That would do away with the need for a cable.
The mobile Odin will only work if you don't Odin back to a non rooted stock.....must have root to use it .....I looked into it and will eventually let it run its 30 min long log to hand in for a request for our device
Juls, here's the eBay link for the batteries. These are the same ones I bought a few months ago
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-1800mAh-...-Galaxy-S-II-Epic-4G-Touch-D710-/250947190241
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA
I just went with the warranty. Thats $130 that I wont see again.... Im assuming its a phone problem anyway and if I keep the new one cherry (I hope im not the only one that uses that phrase) , ill turn around and sell it when my contract is up and I upgrade
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
If you went with insurance I hope you told them you lost phone? By doing this it allows you to keep your phone for parts or even use it as a tester phone so you can try to flash risky stuff without worrying about being left with a dead device you will have spare. Hope you understand what I'm saying. If you say phone has problem you pay 130 and ship back your phone to them. If you already told them there was an issue and they want phone back wait a day call them back and say the phone is now lost
NOT stolen this way the phone can't be locked out hope this helped
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA
anoymonos said:
If you went with insurance I hope you told them you lost phone? By doing this it allows you to keep your phone for parts or even use it as a tester phone so you can try to flash risky stuff without worrying about being left with a dead device you will have spare. Hope you understand what I'm saying. If you say phone has problem you pay 130 and ship back your phone to them. If you already told them there was an issue and they want phone back wait a day call them back and say the phone is now lost
NOT stolen this way the phone can't be locked out hope this helped
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does that really work though? Like calling them after I get the new one?
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
I have not tried after I received the phone but have called a day after I put in claim and no problems. It's worth a shot I mean it could really happen. I always tell them I lost it why should I pay 130 to give my phone away and then they fix cheap and sell it high. Even if the device is broken there are still good parts that you or someone else could use
Side note you can put old phone on ebay and probably get at least 100 dollars to help cover the insurance cost.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA
Juls317 said:
Does that really work though? Like calling them after I get the new one?
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically its fraud. And insurance fraud at that.
eollie said:
Technically its fraud. And insurance fraud at that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeahhh I figured that out after :banghead:
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
eollie said:
Technically its fraud. And insurance fraud at that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should of seen that coming. But who is screwing who, as phone company charges 600 for device then they require a 2 year contract and phone is only warrantied for one year so you buy insurance at 10 a month for 24 months another 240 we are now at 840 plus when phone breaks you pay another 130 for a grand total of 970, and you get a refurbished device. Do what you want. I am not condoning fraud but for that price I'm keeping my original phone. Ins company are nothing but legal scam artists
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA
anoymonos said:
I should of seen that coming. But who is screwing who, as phone company charges 600 for device then they require a 2 year contract and phone is only warrantied for one year so you buy insurance at 10 a month for 24 months another 240 we are now at 840 plus when phone breaks you pay another 130 for a grand total of 970, and you get a refurbished device. Do what you want. I am not condoning fraud but for that price I'm keeping my original phone. Ins company are nothing but legal scam artists
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you pay 600 bucks for a device on contract then you are doing it wrong. I paid right at 400 for the phone and car dock OUT of contract.
I understand what your saying, however it is insurance fraud. I disagree with people doing this and will speak up every time. Plus Im sure your comment and my replies will be reported to a mod and get this thread either locked or them removed. Because xda doesnt condone this and doenst allow these type of conversations.
Food for thought, if you are caught doing this it can also cause you to be non insurable as well as criminal charges or for however long the insurance company feels necessary to report you as a risk for fraudulent claims when attempting to get insurance in the future.
eollie said:
If you pay 600 bucks for a device on contract then you are doing it wrong. I paid right at 400 for the phone and car dock OUT of contract.
I understand what your saying, however it is insurance fraud. I disagree with people doing this and will speak up every time. Plus Im sure your comment and my replies will be reported to a mod and get this thread either locked or them removed. Because xda doesnt condone this and doenst allow these type of conversations.
Food for thought, if you are caught doing this it can also cause you to be non insurable as well as criminal charges or for however long the insurance company feels necessary to report you as a risk for fraudulent claims when attempting to get insurance in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you and understand where you are coming from, but it makes me wonder...
If you were to flash your device and hard brick it, and you have insurance. Would you call Tmobile and say "I rooted my phone and was attempting to load third party firmware on it when I messed up and my device will no longer turn on."?
Or would you simply say your device does not turn on anymore?
jigglynuts said:
I agree with you and understand where you are coming from, but it makes me wonder...
If you were to flash your device and hard brick it, and you have insurance. Would you call Tmobile and say "I rooted my phone and was attempting to load third party firmware on it when I messed up and my device will no longer turn on."?
Or would you simply say your device does not turn on anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sat for three days with a semi hard bricked Droid X that I got the day after they released. I was about to buy a new phone when moto's version of odin was leaked and I was able to restore it. I also thought my Optimus V was beyond restoration and after hours and hours of tinkering got it back alive. I had paid for insurance from best buy and thought about using it but personally I couldnt do it.
So to answer I wouldnt even call them. I would start saving to replace the phone. I broke it I have to eat it.
Those numbers were meant to be general speaking but that is just my opinion I'm done with this topic
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA
http://www.phonedog.com/2012/07/10/...-feature-unlockable-bootloader-599-price-tag/
Also spotted at Supercurio's twitter. https://twitter.com/supercurio
Now to decide if it is worth returning this one and just paying full price for an unlocked one.
buur11 said:
http://www.phonedog.com/2012/07/10/...-feature-unlockable-bootloader-599-price-tag/
Also spotted at Supercurio's twitter. https://twitter.com/supercurio
Now to decide if it is worth returning this one and just paying full price for an unlocked one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll be putting mine up on ebay, getting the unlocked one.
Was just about to post this. Wonder if this will aid in the bootloader issue as it atands. I don't have to he money for a 600 dollar phone haha.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
wow... this better not fly. how does their original statement about keeping their network secure apply to the rest of us then?
I'm sorry but this is utter garbage. If any of us had known this was the way things were going to play out we would have held out for this one in the first place. This is really just unbelievable. First we are led to believe our SG3 is going to be the same as the rest, only to find out we have a locked boot loader, now they dangle a $600 "developer" edition in front of us after most people interested in the developer aspect have already pre ordered the regular one? Am I the only one who is really ticked off about this?
Good for Samsung, Verizon still sucks. If I had $600 I would buy one.
I assume this device would ship minus the ongoing wifi notification?
I'm sorry but this is utter garbage. If any of us had known this was the way things were going to play out we would have held out for this one in the first place. This is really just unbelievable. First we are led to believe our SG3 is going to be the same as the rest, only to find out we have a locked boot loader, now they dangle a $600 "developer" edition in front of us after most people interested in the developer aspect have already pre ordered the regular one? Am I the only one who is really ticked off about this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, this honestly just made me even more mad at them. Why can't they just give us an unlock tool just like htc where its in their system?
Will this impede the developer efforts being made to unlock the subsidized model or will the devs deem it a waste of time?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Will this impede the developer efforts being made to unlock the subsidized model or will the devs deem it a waste of time?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, it will just get us unlocked faster most likely.
I can't imagine it will... there will probably be a very small percentage of people who will own them so not really a huge point to dev for it. Hopefully it can help unlock though.
This is ridiculous.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Div033 said:
Will this impede the developer efforts being made to unlock the subsidized model or will the devs deem it a waste of time?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm worried this will set us back. Why mess with locked if you can just buy unlocked? Except not all of us are gonna be able to just eBay ours to buy this, whenever its actually released. I'm hoping the devs don't abandon this project.
Well, I think developers would like to test out encrypting the bootloader, so it should DEFINITELY come with a tool to enable encryption of the bootloader. And it should also allow them to disable the encryption afterwards obviously... right?
Hopefully Samsung will do the right thing and leave a loophole for us.
I am slated to receive my SGS3 via FedEx tomorrow. I am currently a customer with Sprint, and I had planned to drop Sprint for Verizon upon activating this new phone. I am seriously having second thoughts now.
The biggest reason for choosing the SGS3 for me was because historically, Sammy hasn't restricted their devices by locking the bootloaders. I came from using two EVO devices (4G and 3D), which had increasingly difficult-to-crack bootloaders. Though I eventually achieved S-OFF with both devices, I wanted to support a company whose track record indicated community with developers, not antagonizing us.
I knew I wanted to drop Sprint, and I will never, ever consider AT&T again. So, I have my pick of two carriers to choose, and I chose Verizon based on their LTE network which is both new and fast in my area. I will probably hold my phone unopened and unactivated for a couple of days until I decide.
lblacklol said:
I'm worried this will set us back. Why mess with locked if you can just buy unlocked? Except not all of us are gonna be able to just eBay ours to buy this, whenever its actually released. I'm hoping the devs don't abandon this project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think they will. I've been going back and forth with keeping the phone or taking my chances with Sprint. I just got the phone today and decided I'll keep it on Verizon.
I think that there aren't many people out there ready to shell out 600 bucks for a phone. After all, look at how many "unlocked" phones you can buy, but yet people still get the contract phones. I have to agree with the other posters about how if anything, it will help us out with the locked phones. Who knows, maybe it's as simple as using the odin tool to flash a backup of an unlocked phone....considering they are probably the same model numbers.
itsmefu said:
Good for Samsung, Verizon still sucks. If I had $600 I would buy one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they both suck if you ask me. they should have had this option available before everybody preordered one
Kipland007 said:
wow... this better not fly. how does their original statement about keeping their network secure apply to the rest of us then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree. this better not fly is right. verizon says its compromises security in the network and yet this happens. sammy and verizon are all about the money anymore screw both of them
blockhead42 said:
I'll be putting mine up on ebay, getting the unlocked one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
value is going to go way way down lol
tonu42 said:
Not at all, it will just get us unlocked faster most likely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope you are right. I hope we could take the unlocked Verizon bootloader from the dev phone and have the guy with JTAG equip flash it to this phone. I am clueless on this stuff but would be cool if it worked. I know I'd pay him to do it for sure.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Once again guys let's not get our undies in a bundle. This could be the best news for us in the last few days. We might be able to use this...
Sent from my r00ted SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
This is crazy, but I do not feel like returning mine and then going to buy another one. Why can't samsung just release an unlock code or something for everyone? You really want to get some customers PO'd do what exactly samsung is doing. I know once I am due for an upgrade again samsung will be down low on my list right above moto if they do this and do not give those of us who bought it an option to unlock.
I just noticed that Walgreens is not activating any of their nfc payment systems because of security issues and just today I found out that wawa gas stations no longer have them due to some type of issues they were having with malware with their system. Seems more companies are discontinuing their use over setting the systems up.
I hope they get this supposed security problem figured out soon. I love using my phone to pay.
Sent from the Great Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
yankees45us said:
I just noticed that Walgreens is not activating any of their nfc payment systems because of security issues and just today I found out that wawa gas stations no longer have them due to some type of issues they were having with malware with their system. Seems more companies are discontinuing their use over setting the systems up.
I hope they get this supposed security problem figured out soon. I love using my phone to pay.
Sent from the Great Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was only ever a pipe dream to be honest. Too many ways it can be hacked, far too insecure for real world use.
Far, far too unsafe for public use. You can hack it with stickers for goodness sake.
Not to mention, people are far too moronic in the way and guard they use their phones to make this work. On an average day at Uni, I see about 200 phones I could nick without them noticing it. And consequentially use to pay for anything, because apparently people are not smart enough to realize that a pattern lock leaves a fingertrail. And their code is pretty much always a date of relevance. Which they've undoubtably mentioned somewhere on their Facebook.
I don't think the reason is security on the phone but on the unit in the store. The phone itself is more secure than using a debit card. If someone steals your card they are able to use it at most stores without ever being asked for id. My phone not only has a passcode but once you try to use the wallet app it asks for another code. Overall I think the security issue is with the store and if that can be resolved nfc payments can continue.
Sent from the Great Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
zelendel said:
This was only ever a pipe dream to be honest. Too many ways it can be hacked, far too insecure for real world use.
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Click to collapse
When you say hacked, do you mean the phone or the unit at the store?
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ShadowLea said:
Far, far too unsafe for public use. You can hack it with stickers for goodness sake.
Not to mention, people are far too moronic in the way and guard they use their phones to make this work. On an average day at Uni, I see about 200 phones I could nick without them noticing it. And consequentially use to pay for anything, because apparently people are not smart enough to realize that a pattern lock leaves a fingertrail. And their code is pretty much always a date of relevance. Which they've undoubtably mentioned somewhere on their Facebook.
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I love people who speak with authority about things they clearly know nothing about. "Hack it with stickers"? You're delusional.
Mobile NFC payments are far more secure than any other form of physical payment.
LoveNFC said:
I love people who speak with authority about things they clearly know nothing about. "Hack it with stickers"? You're delusional.
Mobile NFC payments are far more secure than any other form of physical payment.
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I'd be a little more convinced if your name wasn't "LoveNFC".
ShadowLea said:
I'd be a little more convinced if your name wasn't "LoveNFC".
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If you could provide details about how a sticker can hack nfc then maybe you could have a point. But as far as all the research I have done nfc payments are more secure than paying with a debit card.
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yankees45us said:
If you could provide details about how a sticker can hack nfc then maybe you could have a point. But as far as all the research I have done nfc payments are more secure than paying with a debit card.
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Because the NFC tag can be set to many things like storing and sending the info used to pay. And it doesnt take much to reprogram the tag, They are about as safe as a debt card which we all know is not 100%
zelendel said:
Because the NFC tag can be set to many things like storing and sending the info used to pay. And it doesnt take much to reprogram the tag, They are about as safe as a debt card which we all know is not 100%
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What tag are you talking about. The phones use an nfc chip and the stores use an nfc system. No one uses a sticker. The stickers your talking about are the ones sold that can let you perform tasks on your phone. What do they have to do with making secure payments from the phone.
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yankees45us said:
What tag are you talking about. The phones use an nfc chip and the stores use an nfc system. No one uses a sticker. The stickers your talking about are the ones sold that can let you perform tasks on your phone. What do they have to do with making secure payments from the phone.
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Its the Same tech. I installed these in a few stores and saw how easy it would be to allow it to be reprogrammed.
That's why just like if you see a weird looking atm and don't use it you should not use an nfc scanner. Plus you can tell if their is some weird sticker on the nfc scanner. And this proves again that using your phone is not unsecure it's the system that is at the store that can be compromised by idiots. Plus if your Google wallet app doesn't activate after swiping then that should be an indication of something going wrong. Plus those nfc task stickers do not have access to the Google wallet app. So what your saying is flawed and not the reason why stores are removing the units. I think the units are being tampered with by people or the store employees and stores don't want to deal with this. With updated nfc systems this security issue can be resolved. It's just a matter if this makes money for Google. If it doesn't they will just scrap it
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ShadowLea said:
Far, far too unsafe for public use. You can hack it with stickers for goodness sake.
Not to mention, people are far too moronic in the way and guard they use their phones to make this work. On an average day at Uni, I see about 200 phones I could nick without them noticing it. And consequentially use to pay for anything, because apparently people are not smart enough to realize that a pattern lock leaves a fingertrail. And their code is pretty much always a date of relevance. Which they've undoubtably mentioned somewhere on their Facebook.
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Just found out there's a new more secure nfc payment system. Saw it for the first time at toysrus. The swipe area for nfc payments is built in right to the touchscreen where you would enter prompts. This is a lot more secure and a solution to all these so called sticker problems. No one can put a sticker on the screen as it will block everyone from using it. Hopefully nfc payments get back on track. Just used mine at cvs and McDonald's
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So the security system KNOX and the mobile payment system Samsung Pay has started the controversial debate about rooting/flashing your new S6/S6 Edge..
While we still are months (years?) away from a fully working system and large merchants adapting the system, it is still a very valuable and kind of cool feature to have on your phone.
But when you're browsing the forums you see custom ROMs and mods that could further power your S6 to unlock it's full potential and with root you can of course modify your Android experience to just the way you want it.
We have also yet to see a release date for other countries than the US and China. I live in Sweden and doubt I will see Samsung Pay working here since the magnetic terminals rarely can be used because of the chip-security VISA and MasterCard require.
The question still resides.. Is it worth tripping KNOX and losing Samsung Pay, which might never even come to your country (or at least not in 1-2 years), for unlocking Androids full power and the S6 full potential?
To flash or not to flash, that is the question...
I'd love to root, but it's not available for my version yet. I'm also not clear on what Samsung Pay does for me that's better than Google Wallet.
flu13 said:
I'd love to root, but it's not available for my version yet. I'm also not clear on what Samsung Pay does for me that's better than Google Wallet.
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Samsung Pay uses MST technology in addition to NFC, meaning that you can pay with your phone virtually anywhere credit cards are accepted.
flu13 said:
I'd love to root, but it's not available for my version yet. I'm also not clear on what Samsung Pay does for me that's better than Google Wallet.
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MST technology
Whaaaat?? How does that work? How will it work with an old-fashioned magnetic card swipe reader? Crazy.
flu13 said:
Whaaaat?? How does that work? How will it work with an old-fashioned magnetic card swipe reader? Crazy.
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It emulates an magnetic field that works exactly as you should swipe your card.
That makes my head spin.
I rooted. I have no desire to pay with my phone.
So do we know 100% that root definitely kills the option for Samsung Pay? Or that with Knox tripped it will negate Samsung Pay? I've read about here and there but I guess I haven't quite seen if someone actually tried to use the pay after root and it didn't work?
highaltitude said:
So do we know 100% that root definitely kills the option for Samsung Pay? Or that with Knox tripped it will negate Samsung Pay? I've read about here and there but I guess I haven't quite seen if someone actually tried to use the pay after root and it didn't work?
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According to SamMobile tripping KNOX will disable Samsung Pay.
We've yet to get any official statement though, right?
ZoZo- said:
According to SamMobile tripping KNOX will disable Samsung Pay.
We've yet to get any official statement though, right?
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I am looking at buying one to replace my wife's S4 and hadn't really read up on it a whole little yet. Thanks for the info I had not looked there. Next time keep the attitude to yourself.
highaltitude said:
I am looking at buying one to replace my wife's S4 and hadn't really read up on it a whole little yet. Thanks for the info I had not looked there. Next time keep the attitude to yourself.
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I'm sorry, you must've missunderstood me.. I didn't mean to have any attitude. I was mainly trying to get confirmation if there were any official statement from Samsung since I don't know if there is any..
No problem, guess I took it the wrong way too. It was just how it was written the "though?"
Anyhow, I have rooted (between my wife and I) our last 8+ phones so naturally I am looking to root the S6 when we get one, just wanted to find out for sure if it made things worse. I suppose if I am not going to use Sam Pay then it wouldn't matter. I just would rather not lose options or features. I did see a thread of a DEV that claims to have achieved root without tripping KNOX. Not sure if it will make it's way to us or not.
highaltitude said:
No problem, guess I took it the wrong way too. It was just how it was written the "though?"
Anyhow, I have rooted (between my wife and I) our last 8+ phones so naturally I am looking to root the S6 when we get one, just wanted to find out for sure if it made things worse. I suppose if I am not going to use Sam Pay then it wouldn't matter. I just would rather not lose options or features. I did see a thread of a DEV that claims to have achieved root without tripping KNOX. Not sure if it will make it's way to us or not.
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Same here! Always been rooting the phones, when you have the option of complete flexibility with the OS, why not?
Yea, better to have the possibility of the feature, even if one will use it or not, than to lock yourself out directly, hopefully that Dev has found a way and if so it won't be long time before it gets to us.
Also, since installing Nova Launcher Prime I haven't really had the need to root it since the phone is blazing fast and you can you hide away the apps you don't use/want to see in the drawer.
I know i may get some slack for this post but is it realistically possible that someone could find a root method that doesnt trip knox. My last device was a note 3 so i havent followed whether the s5, note 4 or s6 have acheived this. I like the idea of samsung pay (even though im in the beta and it doesnt work with my car) and im hoping it works with my card once the app is public. I cant live with a phone that cant run a custom rom but if i at least have root i feel like i could manage. So am i just being stupid and say screw samsung pay or is their a real possiblity that someone could find root without the knox trip.
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Would be nice, but. Samsung pay isn't working for me on any card I have. So I'm about to pull the trigger on Knox , and get new recovery and flash deodex rom.
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Goddly said:
Would be nice, but. Samsung pay isn't working for me on any card I have. So I'm about to pull the trigger on Knox , and get new recovery and flash deodex rom.
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It only works for Bank of America or US Bank cards now I believe although there is support for Amex, Visa and Mastercard. They will probably be up and running once Samsung Pay is officially launched on the 28th. I can tell you this. Samsung Pay is a battery hog. It runs all the time unlike Google Wallet that you open when you need it. And the way you unlock your phone is tied into Samsung Pay. For example, if you select fingerprint scanner for Samsung Pay it automatically becomes the lockscreen default to unlock the phone. So if you want a pattern to unlock your phone you have to change it in Samsung Pay to unlock the device. You can't have both. Well at least when I tried you couldn't. LoL
I dont think enough devs have a note 5, i would guess something may come out of another phone maybe and translate over. I'm in the same boat, my n3 was rooted right away once I was convinced sprint wasnt going to deny a warranty claim over knox. I'm kinda holding out for s pay, but if it sounds like a bunch of brain damage....
Actually just thought of something, I use drive through and eat at bars and restaurants a lot, not keen on handing my phone to someone, probably gonna pass on s pay...
juvenile43 said:
I know i may get some slack for this post but is it realistically possible that someone could find a root method that doesnt trip knox. My last device was a note 3 so i havent followed whether the s5, note 4 or s6 have acheived this. I like the idea of samsung pay (even though im in the beta and it doesnt work with my car) and im hoping it works with my card once the app is public. I cant live with a phone that cant run a custom rom but if i at least have root i feel like i could manage. So am i just being stupid and say screw samsung pay or is their a real possiblity that someone could find root without the knox trip.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
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check out king root. I've recently seen a post and it claims to not trip Knox.
You may want to search xda.
TheCyberpunk said:
check out king root. I've recently seen a post and it claims to not trip Knox.
You may want to search xda.
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Click to collapse
That would be amazing. Thanks for the heads up. I looked through a couple pages of the kingroot main thread and couldnt find anything. Will keep searching.
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Im guessing no one else has found any data to support this. I would assume someone would be talking about it by now....but, it seems development is kinda slow (absolutely no disrespect intended) or the possiblity is people who want root are not concerned about knox so there hasnt been alot of interest. From what i can tell though is kingroot was for earlier devices and doesnt even work on an updated note 4 let alone a 5. Someone tell me im wrong. Im offereing 20 bucks for a root method. lol i know thats weak but maybe other people will join me. Thanks to anyone that looks into this.
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Also offering 20 bux to developer for root method that don't trip Knox on 5.1.1 sprint s6 edge plus
I actually have many compatible Samsung Pay cards and am enjoying the service... really don't want to lose it. Hopefully someone comes up with something.
Don't think it will ever happen!!!!!!
My money is burning a whole in my pocket waiting to be sent to the person that successfully obtains permanent root WITHOUT tripping the dreadful knox! $10 $20 $30 $40????
Allaboutthemoney said:
My money is burning a whole in my pocket waiting to be sent to the person that successfully obtains permanent root WITHOUT tripping the dreadful knox! $10 $20 $30 $40????
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Better keep your money don't think it will ever happen
Chaz187 said:
Better keep your money don't think it will ever happen
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https://youtu.be/ddsZTFSfXaw
juvenile43 said:
Im guessing no one else has found any data to support this. I would assume someone would be talking about it by now....but, it seems development is kinda slow (absolutely no disrespect intended) or the possiblity is people who want root are not concerned about knox so there hasnt been alot of interest. From what i can tell though is kingroot was for earlier devices and doesnt even work on an updated note 4 let alone a 5. Someone tell me im wrong. Im offereing 20 bucks for a root method. lol i know thats weak but maybe other people will join me. Thanks to anyone that looks into this.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
I have a T567V Verizon tab E that is a Farley new device and although king root said it didn't have a root method I was able to continue and get root on a Verizon without tripping Knox so see no reason it would on the note 5
Tried it and it seems it does not work. Seemed to good to be true
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why not just trip the knox and use google pay or other services out there? for me rooting and being able to customize and overclock is the priority than samsung pay..ill just use google pay instead
Having to switch kernals everytime i need to use gearvr is whats kinda stopping me. Also i thought android pay now detects all root even "systemless"
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