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Hey guys, I'm new here as you can see by my 1st post count ..
I've heard a lot about this site through all the various tech blogs i visit daily and I figured this would be a great place to seek help....
I have limited experience with Winmo or any smart phone for that matter. I've debranded/modded several sony erricssons but from what I've been reading that's small potatoes to what all of this is about...
Here's my situation. I have a friend that just got a HTC Tilt2 from AT&T and he absolutely hates it. He came from a blackberry 9000 but after returning them twice because of all the errors and locking up he told AT&T to send him something different.
He says the tilt 2 is always doing things he doesn't want it to which is probably User related i'm sure, but it does seem to freeze a lot and it's just not very user friendly. It has Winmo 6.5 professional
So these ROM's that you guys create will they solve his issues, or should i just tell him he needs to sell the phone?
I've been reading up on how to load the new images. And i've got a small grasp, but if it's not going to make him like the phone anymore then i really don't feel like getting that deep into it.
Thanks,
elijahblake
ROMs will definately improve his experience. I have no idea what he requires, but for me the stock ROM on my pure, which is the same as the tilt2 without the keyboard, sucked, and ended up flashing it withing 30min of having it, and now I love it
Welcome to the forum. Cooked roms by our great chefs are the best way to improve a device's performance, customizing, etc. There's tons of info on this forum about rom's etc. So read, search, & happy flashing...
thanks for the feedback guys. Guess I'm about to do some studying in here..
I'm having a hard time finding exactly which ROM to get and where to get it, but all i do is put winmo software on my computer, and put that SPBL or something called something like that and run it.
Then i can put the ROM on the sd card root?
Is that the outline more or less?
Don't listen to these people. Stock ROM's are actually less likely to be as buggy as custom ROM's.
Changing the ROM simply changes the software that is installed on the phone, or sometimes even the operating system.
If your stock ROM has alot of errors than it's even more likely that these other ROMs will have more errors. This is because software and files are being ported from other phones. The more foreign software and files that you have on your ROM, the more likely that the system is unstable and uncompatible.
Manufacturers and Carriers usually provide updates for Stock ROM's, this is the best way to go.
From what I am hearing, your friend doesn't sound very enthusiastic about the complexity. He is looking for a phone that simply works. These people in this forum are fanatics about Windows Mobile.
Your friend's phone freezes a lot, and if that is the case, don't even change the ROM, it's probably a faulty CPU or bad RAM or anything hardware-related for that matter. Also, if your friend isn't used to the lag, than I should remind you that Windows Mobile 6.5 is very laggy for phones with a 500 Megahertz processor.
In regards to user friendliness, Windows Mobile is not user friendly no matter how much you customize it. That is what iPhone OS and Windows Series 7 is for These people here are telling you to flash the ROM, but they seriously didn't consider what exactly you were looking for (are they trying to glamorize windows mobile, or are they trying to help you?). Changing the ROM doesn't change anything, you still have to deal with Windows Mobile as an operating system. These people like Windows Mobile very much, and have not considered the actual context of user friendliness. iPhone can be user friendly because little children can use it. Windows Mobile can be user friendly because it allows you to customize the desktop and make things more accessible (which isn't user friendly for people who can't do this).
You friend wants something that provides intensive business and communications features but can completely be mastered by a 10 year old.
So without further ado, switch to a simpler phone.
poetryrocksalot said:
Don't listen to these people. Stock ROM's are actually less likely to be as buggy as custom ROM's.
Changing the ROM simply changes the software that is installed on the phone, or sometimes even the operating system.
If your stock ROM has alot of errors than it's even more likely that these other ROMs will have more errors. This is because software and files are being ported from other phones. The more foreign software and files that you have on your ROM, the more likely that the system is unstable and uncompatible.
Manufacturers and Carriers usually provide updates for Stock ROM's, this is the best way to go.
From what I am hearing, your friend doesn't sound very enthusiastic about the complexity. He is looking for a phone that simply works. These people in this forum are fanatics about Windows Mobile.
Your friend's phone freezes a lot, and if that is the case, don't even change the ROM, it's probably a faulty CPU or bad RAM or anything hardware-related for that matter. Also, if your friend isn't used to the lag, than I should remind you that Windows Mobile 6.5 is very laggy for phones with a 500 Megahertz processor.
In regards to user friendliness, Windows Mobile is not user friendly no matter how much you customize it. That is what iPhone OS and Windows Series 7 is for These people here are telling you to flash the ROM, but they seriously didn't consider what exactly you were looking for (are they trying to glamorize windows mobile, or are they trying to help you?). Changing the ROM doesn't change anything, you still have to deal with Windows Mobile as an operating system. These people like Windows Mobile very much, and have not considered the actual context of user friendliness. iPhone can be user friendly because little children can use it. Windows Mobile can be user friendly because it allows you to customize the desktop and make things more accessible (which isn't user friendly for people who can't do this).
You friend wants something that provides intensive business and communications features but can completely be mastered by a 10 year old.
So without further ado, switch to a simpler phone.
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thank you a lot... This is exactly what I was sort of thinking, but I really didn't know exactly what the ROM's did or didn't do. I believe you're 100% correct though he just thinks winmo is too complicated, and he says the phones always doing things he doesn't want it to (which i figure is his fault) or he just hasn't had it long enough.
My advice to him was to wait until June and see what the new iphone was going to be like, and hopefully by then AT&T will have the nexus one or some variant. Seems like I've been waiting forever for AT&T to get a good android device.
Thanks again
elijahblake said:
thank you a lot... This is exactly what I was sort of thinking, but I really didn't know exactly what the ROM's did or didn't do. I believe you're 100% correct though he just thinks winmo is too complicated, and he says the phones always doing things he doesn't want it to (which i figure is his fault) or he just hasn't had it long enough.
My advice to him was to wait until June and see what the new iphone was going to be like, and hopefully by then AT&T will have the nexus one or some variant. Seems like I've been waiting forever for AT&T to get a good android device.
Thanks again
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Yeh, I hate it when WinMo aficionados tell people that ROM's make Windows phones so much better, and act like it will always help the user experience.
As a result of this, there's always some one else posting threads complaining that they made a stupid purchase, and blaming other people and Microsoft.
Then the flame war happens. It's so stupid, but it always happen.
But please do tell what your friend always do with his phone. Does he listen to music? Browse the web? Organize his calendar?
I have seen some threads for kids apps. I am interested in finding/building a kids ROM.
My child has a prepaid SIM card and RAZR to be used for certain situations. I would want to be able to let my child carry the phone all the time but restrict what numbers could be called.
So my idea, which can't be an original one, is leverage Android power to install a rooted ROM but run in user mode when I give it to my child. User mode could restrict calling to the phone book only or restrict wi-fi/data access; basically anything that you wanted to restrict or remove. Maybe there could be a ROM builder.
I have many scenarios in mind but maybe they could all be solved by software apps instead of getting into a custom ROM? I'm tech savvy, but haven't ever done a ROM. If the answer is to develop a custom ROM, what device should I choose that would get the most community support? I figure it would be a low end phone, since the point is to make a children's rom.
May I ask how old is your child?
[Sig] dId you know? If you Insert a Coin on your Desire, then it levels up to HD, Z or S :[/Sig]
i was thinking of my son when you mentioned this, it is a great i dea, and i also thought if the original att kid's phone that was out a few years back. it was revamped and it sucked. but good luck on either building one or have some one make one ( put a bounty on it?)
Phones and ROMs
My child is 8 years old. I figure in a few years that it would be fine, but it seems like there would be more of a market for this.
I would put up a bounty for it but I'd prefer to make this a community effort too.
So I will change tack here and ask what the best ROM might be for me to start with and what phones might be recommended? I'm figuring that CM would be easiest to start with, generically?
Thoughts?
I think that is a very good idea.
A good part of that could be accoimplished with a kids theme on an existing ROM.
im sorry but the RAZR is a dumb-phone! it doesnt support 3rd party modding. im afraid you are mistaking the word 'ROM' and actually don't know what it means! You will have no luck finding such ROM for the RAZR... A bootloader of any sort does not exist!
You need a smartphone if you want such a job done, but it requires a investment into a smartphone which are generally more expensive and not intended for 'kids'
I understand...
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
rykerwilliams said:
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
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hi
well i guess the best option for a relatively cheap phone (that has android) is the zte blade (in my sig) it is a british phone, but gsm, so i think it should work in the us. if you read reviews for it, it has specs of the desire, nexus one, etc in a cheap budget range. read some revies on it! it also cost £100. Not sure what your budget is though. before you set out to buy the phone, you may need to look up a rom that supports the requirements you want, or you could request one/build your own.
good luck
Unrelated, but the RAZR does support modding lol. Back in the day, pre-Android, I used to hack the hell out of my Razr. There's even a hidden feature called Club Lights that uses the phone's microphone to detect music and make the lights on the phone go with the beat. Youtube it.
That's a great idea... it would be great on a tablet too.
I'm always worried that my son is going to click around in the market and download tons of apps without know it.
Remove Dialer.app, replace with custom Dialer.app
Is the source for the Dialer.app known, i.e. part of the main trunk of the Android sources? I was just thinking that it might not be too hard to just modify that original source to limit it only to the "contacts" tab, that way you can only call the contacts tab.
Another feature I thought of is using some kind of Dynamic DNS client to be able to dial in to the phone.
I was thinking that there could be a "phone home" app that would call home and report the currently used minutes and GPS coordinates, or similar.
Just trying to get the features set worked out and find out if there is existing apps that do this stuff.
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
This is what I'm looking for my child. I'm a software engeneer but I've never works on Android. I think it's not a great works for an Android developer.
I'll follow this post for news.
digging this one up again. anyway to take something like at Nexux 5x and put a totally stripped down version of android on it to achieve something like the lightphone?
nvrpunk said:
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
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Per capita, there are very few people that actually root or flash custom ROMs, the number of kids that could/would use such a ROM is even less than that, this means it is not worth a developers time and hard work to build a ROM for this purpose, especially considering the plethora of different devices out there in the world. There would not be enough kids using "this" or "that" device with "this" or "that" custom ROM. To be as convenient for kids as what you are asking about, there would have to be a "kids ROM" for a large number of devices. This is not a reasonable expectation by any standard.
Add to that, the fact that rooting devices and flashing ROMs can quickly go bad if the user is not familiar with certain aspects of using a device that is rooted or flashed with a custom ROM, this makes for some rather difficult issues to solve due to user error, ignorance and inexperience of the user.
If you want a "safe" or "basic" ROM for a device, you'll have to learn how to build it yourself because I can promise you that no developer is willing to put that much time and effort into building ROMs that will only be used by a small number of users.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
Reading the other forums for similar HTC devices, ie incredible s, sensation and evo 3d makes me realise how lucky we are. Those devices and therefore forums may be more popular than this one.
But, I find it quite surprising how many of those people that bother to respond to threads on the other device forums, respond with attitude and negativity. Without intentionally bashing other members, by comparison we seen a more considerate bunch, with less "know it alls". Lets keep it that way.
I think that we are very lucky in that sense and should endeavour to continue the good spirit and sense of community.
on the same note do remember that there is a search button which should always be used prior to posting new threads, also remember that when creating a new thread if the tags added aren't any good then it will never be found by others when searching.
As another member says....peace and lets try to carry on the good attitude
Swyped from HTC Desire S using XDA Premium
DITTO. Other phones might have more ROMs, but no support. The sensation forum has so many posts, that one's question would be buried behind 50 others rather than 1 reply
I think it probably has a lot to do with the desire s not being a stand out when it comes to features, but what it does offer is a high quality handset with very reasonable performance.
But I will agree with the quality of posts in other forums, although this isn't an overly active forum, what it lacks in activeness it gains in quality.
I wouldn't worry about a lack of support as we have some great users (proxuser?) porting ROMs almost non stop, LBC for his fantasic ROM and the Virtuous team for their more in depth multi handset ROM.
I really have to agree here. This part of the forum is awsome. Every member gives a hand when needed, developers are close to users, and there is no extra off topic that drives me crazy.
I congratulate me everyday for picking this phone instead of Nexus S !
That, and the nexus s is basically a phone made of happy meal toy plastic ;-) as I have been saying to the three black sheep that are at school with me who all got one in a matter of a week .
zeekiz said:
I wouldn't worry about a lack of support as we have some great users (proxuser?) porting ROMs almost non stop, LBC for his fantasic ROM and the Virtuous team for their more in depth multi handset ROM.
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we mustn't forget superkid who seemed to start our ROM porting gold rush! madmax without whose super recovery EXT4 we would have very sore fingers and damaged volume buttoins along with everyone else Marylandcookie and many more I can't remember right now!!
yeah, superkid, proxuser, LBC, Virtuous Team, and others like ben_pyett (who has provided non-stop support in the genreal section) have made this forum what it is
I have a Desire S. My loyalty was tested when my sister recently gave me the Incredible S for my birthday. It was so tempting and I HEAVILY contemplated migrating to it. I went on youtube watching reviews, read reviews, checked out the development community over at xda. After a long struggle of choosing between the two, I gave away the Inc S. I had a choice, and at the end of the day my loyalty stays strong to the Desire S. I couldn't get away from its robustness and slender design. Aren't you all proud?
My point is what kept me clinging was this community of developers. To put it simply, I didn't wanna leave you guys for the very same reasons stated by ben. The Inc S had more ROMs but most of them were abandoned. I stuck around because I am a fan of LBC and have great hopes and belief for it.
And Ben, you're one of the most active members on this development I've seen so the props go to you mate.
Seriously, this device is so underrated. The Inc S may be bigger and slightly better but I feel most comfortable with the DS. It's so adequate, perfect and extremely well designed. I just love the look and feel of it in my hand. Everything is just the right amount.
In terms of size, 3.7" is perfect for me. 4" is tolerable. But 4.3", Jesus Christ. Who else is not diggin' the new trend for smartphones getting bigger and bigger? Not me. Unless its gonna do my laundry for me, I don't a mini tablet as a phone.
"Who else is not diggin' the new trend for smartphones getting bigger and bigger? Not me. Unless its gonna do my laundry for me, I don't a mini tablet as a phone."
Totally agree mate and yeah Ben deserves major Kudos ,he helped me a lot at the start when I thought I had bricked my Desire S and getting the LBC rom
THANKS
Many Thanks gentlemen, but, stop it you're making me blush.
Honestly I didn't create this thread for praise, just simply to point out the differnce between this and the majority of previously listed forums attitudes, just try reading some of the posts from the other forums for yourselves and you'll see exactly what I mean.
I try to put in as much as I can, as I too am only a beginner, this being my first Android device and I figure sooner or later I'll need some real help. I also benefit from the time and effort that's put in by the various ROM cooks and figure that this is the only way that I can give back.
Not escaping the fact that I'm ultimately a bit of a geek who likes this stuff and is always keen to learn (Even at my ripe old age).
shrome99 said:
yeah, superkid, proxuser, LBC, Virtuous Team, and others like ben_pyett (who has provided non-stop support in the genreal section) have made this forum what it is
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+1,i totally agree
this forum & all the members are really great
& the community is also getting really big now,thanks to all the hard work of the devs
& also a BIG thanks to Ben for spending so much time here on the forum, helping all of us
edit:
ben_pyett said:
I try to put in as much as I can
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that is what we are thanking you for
This really is a live and warm forum ....
Thank you very much ben_pyett
Indeed this really is a live and warm forum
I got responses and advises here and there throughout the threads within.
Thank you all and keep it rolling
The phone (I call it a Disaster S now) is one of the worst I have ever experienced. I won't bore you with the details, just that I'm with all those who moan some of its even basic features are unpredictable and unreliable at best.
So I too like this forum. I just come here for therapy now ;-)
WibblyW said:
The phone (I call it a Disaster S now) is one of the worst I have ever experienced. I won't bore you with the details, just that I'm with all those who moan some of its even basic features are unpredictable and unreliable at best.
So I too like this forum. I just come here for therapy now ;-)
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LOL
<cut n paste from our other thread>
I believe that either you have a massive dud unit, or it's about time that you took the chance and moved to a custom ROM!
I've has this phone since April and have the exact opposite opinion! I've used LBC Mod since it was first available after I S-OFF'd and rooted my phone, I have tried the other ROMS all of which offer different things, depending on what you're looking for, but, for me coming from a WM Sense background I'm very happy with a "working" close to stock ROM that's stable reliable and ideal for daily use.
I'm also on T-mobile UK. Happy to point you in the right direction - if needed.
Well, I don't want to brick my phone (even reports of frying internals just by removal/reinsertion of battery!) or have warranty problems. Already had motherboard replaced once...
Let me count the ways... Some are these things may be Android platform related, some the Disaster S (hardware), some the stock firmware, or network incompatibility.
- Before the motherboard was replaced, phone would spontaneously reboot seeming triggered by being in poor reception areas when it was going in/out of coverage. It also managed to crash my car radio (and itself) when connected to the car radio via Bluetooth (no other phone has done that)
- Now it randomly fails to tell me about market updates, randomly stops notifying of incoming SMSs properly, some settings in some (standard/built in) apps seem to revert for no reason, it occasionally refuses accept an incoming call when there's indicated coverage. I recently had random emails delayed by over an hour (but I wasn't told by the market there was a GMail update)... yada yada
My all-time record up time before doing a restart to (temporarily) fix one thing or another is about 10 days. Normally it's 5 or less. The worst thing is it's unpredictable. I never know when something's going to break and I'll miss calls, emails or txts, or it will get stuck in a syncing loop draining battery (Exchange contacts sync in the HTC Email app gets turned on somehow, even though I keep deselecting it).
It's just a toy really. Something to show your mates down the pub. Not really fit for purpose. And I'm fed up of looking for workarounds or apps to replace in-built functionality that's supposed to work. Blackberry may not be so pretty, but in my experience they tend to do 'exactly what they say on the tin'. I will prob be back to RIM when I can...
wrong thread.
WibblyW said:
Well, I don't want to brick my phone (even reports of frying internals just by removal/reinsertion of battery!) or have warranty problems. Already had motherboard replaced once...
Let me count the ways... Some are these things may be Android platform related, some the Disaster S (hardware), some the stock firmware, or network incompatibility.
- Before the motherboard was replaced, phone would spontaneously reboot seeming triggered by being in poor reception areas when it was going in/out of coverage. It also managed to crash my car radio (and itself) when connected to the car radio via Bluetooth (no other phone has done that)
- Now it randomly fails to tell me about market updates, randomly stops notifying of incoming SMSs properly, some settings in some (standard/built in) apps seem to revert for no reason, it occasionally refuses accept an incoming call when there's indicated coverage. I recently had random emails delayed by over an hour (but I wasn't told by the market there was a GMail update)... yada yada
My all-time record up time before doing a restart to (temporarily) fix one thing or another is about 10 days. Normally it's 5 or less. The worst thing is it's unpredictable. I never know when something's going to break and I'll miss calls, emails or txts, it will get stuck in a syncing loop draining battery (Exchange contact sync in the HTC Email app gets turned on somehow, even though I keep deselecting it).
It's just a toy really. Something to show your mates down the pub. Not really fit for purpose. And I'm fed up of looking for workarounds or apps to replace in-built functionality that's supposed to work. Blackberry may not be so pretty, but in my experience they tend to do 'exactly what they say on the tin'. I will prob be back to RIM when I can...
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Ouch...I feel your pain, although that sounds like you should get a replacement unit under warranty, or move back to something that you'll be happier with.
ben_pyett said:
Ouch...I feel your pain, although that sounds like you should get a replacement unit under warranty, or move back to something that you'll be happier with.
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Indeed. Hence my comment about RIM. Ironic that my main reason for going Android was the tighter integration with all things in the Google cloud, but in real world terms I've found RIM do that more reliably. Go figure?!?
I don't actually think it's a hardware problem with the Disaster insofar as the nature of the probs makes me think it's firmware and the way I use it. For example I use Exchange, 802.1x wireless authentication, 4 Google apps accounts, etc. I'm sure others do too but maybe not in the same combination. Whatever. Sadly I frequently seem to find what become confirmed bugs in products that others don't.
zeekiz said:
wrong thread.
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Yeah, sorry. Maybe we need a 'therapy' forum anyway lol. Or a new topic "Unlucky to have the Disaster S, lucky to have this forum"
Not everybody is lucky.
I really think that you've got a bad/defective unit. Everybody around here enjoys this phone and squeezes every bit of performance and eyecandy out of it.
Hello,
I made that account in order write about some things that I’m annoyed of or which I find very alarming. I’m sure there are some other people in here, who feel the same. I think it’s time to change something about it. I know some of you might be not interested in that and many people just want to get CM12 as fast as possible. This people should maybe not take part of this. To each man his own. I do understand that but this is about changing CM11 to a REAL “Daily Driver”, where everything works right and stable (at least the device-independent things).
This is about the following:
For many mobile phones like the well known Samsung Galaxy Models will be a Kitkat for real the last “halfway functioning” system. Also there has been put a lot of work into CM11, which a have a lot of respect for. Newly Cyanogenmod got a company and as such this Custom Rom is totally different than others – which do their work completely non-paid and voluntary e.g. Omnirom. As a company you have, except of making a lot of money, some responsibilities. You have to place a working product on the marked and I appeal here and today for calling in this responsibility or rather to introduce CM to move form there previous “Kindergarden” to a CM11 which is made perfect. After all Cyanogenmod as a company benefits of us using CM11 (the Community/Open source Project) on your mobile phones. We users are the best Beta-Testers and if CM just doesn’t fix bugs it is not better than Samsung.
Everyday we are complaining about producers like Samsung, because they e.g. do not bring out a 4.4 for the S3. But they at least perform their obligations somehow and continue improving and fixing 4.3. Anyway it (mostly) gets a real functioning product. CM should be interested in satisfying us with this/their product (CM11/s; Oneplus one). Even if we don’t actually have Oneplus one now we are ALL potential, future costumers! And nearby the most buy a Oneplus one BECAUSE they feel confident with CM and their Android Rom! Unfortunately in reality CM11 is far away from real stability and I don’t mean features, which are hardwarenear and sources for drivers like the S3 camera are needed, but completely normal features in the system.
If you only use a few Apps a few times then the current CM11 will work for you and it is usable, but as soon as you need something which is rarely used or which is more complicated you will find bugs. Although, this could be different.
I think it’s shocking that I often read when people are swearing “why should we want Android 5.0 if not even Android 4.4 is working stable!” (Look at the people from N7000, who have not even a M-Release from CM11). But no one is doing anything against it. CM should know that there are people who want stability! Please note that I’m talking about device-independent features. Especially because CM11 current is the BASIS for the CM11S, which is the system for Oneplus one! But what does the community see? The “CM12 roadmap” in which they are talking about: “freezing” CM11 and focusing on CM12. No, that can’t be. Every lifeblood-Custom-Rom maybe could get away with that (even Omni tries to go on with 4.4 for older devices as a “long-term-project”), but no new, real organization. Some may argument and say that with CM10.2 it has been the same, that with the first Nightlys or in general at the beginning of CM11 the final has been there after a very short time, but CM 10.2 as we all know, from past developers who left CM and now work for Omnirom, never had gone through as a stable. They just wanted it to seem like that in order to get sponsors and to show with the statistics, which CM introduced at that time, how many people already use CM. And the i9300 practically is the most used device in that case!
I have posted this post on November the 22nd 2014(as abruptly the Nightlys from CM11 stood still) in a German Android Forum. On the 24th of November 2014 all the Nightlys suddenly worked again, but if you look at the most Changes you could think that CM had not interest in creating a stable OS or a really stable CM and they are only trying to make it seem like they would still work on that. (Changes like the design template file or adjusting readmes).
Nevertheless there are still many bugs and some elementary features are missing! That can’t be. The worst is, that CM doesn’t get things straight for the community. I can understand if the creators don’t want to have any pressure because many people are asking for appointments but at least they should get the things straight concerning if and how long CM11 should be supported! ESPECIALLY if CM bet on that with their Oneplus One!
I have started to work on this on November the 22nd 2014 and reported about 40 bugs and maybe needed but simply to integrate features in the CM Bugtracker JIRA. I commit that I have never done this before. I do have enough other things to do and I always thought the creators would take care of that or anyone else would report the problem. But apparently this won’t happen. In order to prohibit a fiasco like CM10.2, should we all take care of it NOW!
I will post a list of bugs and eventually some useful and first of all realisable features in the course of this theme. Some of them I already have reported –but the most of them have been closed again. One of them was a appeal to CM and it said that they should get CM11 ready and stable – this Bug of course has been closed immediately and without actual statement.
I want to ask you to vote for all these things. If you have bugs yourself and never have been reported such please make an account on JIRA, it is easy and doesn’t take much time. Even if it’s just in order to vote for my bugs and features later. It would be nice to spread this and the text in JIRA, in other Android / CM-Forums and in social networks in order to have a real group or better sent a link or the post itself to some devs of cyanogenmod so that they are knowing about the problem and can take action on this.
Please don’t see this as agitation or something like that. I have great respect to the creators and their achievements! But CM now is a company and they geared to their (potential) customers. Without us making noise CM will concentrate on CM12 and we all have (again), a half-finished “gerfrickel”-Sytem. Also think that all the improvements in CM will get back to the Custom Roms.
Willingly you can send me your bugs, ideas or suggestions per PM here but better post it here or write it down to the JIRA bugtrakcer. The more, the better!
For so many Smartphones the CM11 is the last thing which they will be seeing more or less stable without an unbelievable reduced battery power. If we don’t do something now, the game will be replayed with CM12. And don’t hope that it will be different there. A really STABLE Custom Rom – that is missing somehow. That’s at least what I think and if read in the forums now, there are many others who think the same…
I hope on active cooperation, feedbacks and opinions on that and ask for not deleting this thread but eventually moving it to the right place (maybe a seperate section about android in general?) and make it sticky for all people to see. I hope we can find some way here to CM changing his mind about working on their custom rom and supporting CM11 for some time until it's a really stable product (maybe until first or second “stable” M-release of CM12 is out). If you want a stable CM11, please write it down here!:good::victory:
BTW: I am from Germany, sorry for my maybe bad English.
Chris
Stability depends on device. CM11 is superbly stable on a Nexus 4 or 5, but could be extremely buggy on some random cheap Chinese phone bought from aliexpress because lots of people use and develop for Nexuses, but only a handful of people will be working on that Chinese one. There are also often hardware issues.
Thanks for your reply, i totally agree with you but if you have rightly read my topic you can read that I dont write about device specific features. If I can reproduce a handfull bugs everytime, on every CM11 rom, than that are real bugs on which CM should take care. I will also show some here but I need time to tanslate it here and to write it.
I also totally agree if a device have no maintainer it cant be tested and made fully working - but the problem most of the time is that there are A LOT of people who make their own kernels, own custom roms on base of CM11 and they COULD be maintainer of the device but dont want it or cant do it because of CM itself. If you look how CM is treating the people and not comunicate with them you will understand why there is a lack of maintainer and so many people which COULD be a maintainer because of the knowledge. But that is a other topic. CM need to change his way to talk with the community. If there are bugs, which are easy to reproduce and they will be reported to bugtracker and CM is closing it because the log is not attached, because the reporter CANT BRINGT IT, BUT the bug can be EASILY reproduced WITHOUT A LOG, than it is CMs fault. People want to help and they (CM) close the bugreports. It should be in their interest to test every bugreport to MAYBE find a potential bug. Also look at the bugtracker, there are issues which were reported for years and CM dont care about it. Look for the lack of using the calendar without a google account for example. On the other hand side: They add features which nobody wanted to have and mostly the people dont use. where is ther sense here?
Personally, I quit using any cm or cm based ROMs on my nexus because it seemed to lack speed and stability compared to stock or aosp based ROMs.
I had better luck with early custom lollipop ROMs than with cm. Right now I'm using slimkat until black themed lollipop ROMs are stable and bug free.
So basically, I agree that cm should be more stable. But I don't really care cause there are lots of good options out there instead of cm.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Ow mannnnn .. Thank you so much !!! you are pro !!!
Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is.
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.
zelendel said:
Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is. .
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Click to collapse
Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
zelendel said:
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
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Click to collapse
Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
zelendel said:
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
zelendel said:
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
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Click to collapse
How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
zelendel said:
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
zelendel said:
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
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Click to collapse
I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
zelendel said:
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris
XXchrisXX said:
Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
Think its so easy then try it your self. You seem to think anything about this is easy. Until you try to do it yourself you have no room to talk about it being easy.
Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
You have the right to blame them if you want but then they also have the right not to care. There are many bugs that I have had on AOSP for years. They have not been fixed and I cant fix them so guess what, I dont complain.
if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
A nice and good human? Really?!?! What world do you live in. Alot of the best Devs here are antisocial people. They dont like other people let alone people cant follow simple instructions.
Look People did it themselves. CM used to be active in the community but then people kept doing just what you have stated. Not posting proper bug reports with logs that are needed. (if the dev says post a log with the bug report, this is not an option). The one plus one is a the joke of the Dev world. Most devs already sold theirs and will not go back.
How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
Yes it is. As long as people follow the proper bug reporting steps. Yeah and if you report some bugs to many devs without the proper logs they will ignore you as well. Many devs are moving over to the bug tracker just like CM and will require the same logs. This is troubleshooting 101. If you cant even get a log then you should rethink using custom roms.
Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
Ill be honest and this is the thought with alot of Devs. Most normal users SHOULD stay on stock. Saying Samsung is stable is too funny. Most Devs have left those devices all together as well. Once again you dont post the proper and requested logs with the bug reprot expect to be ignored. As for freedom of speech Refer to the link below. Your on a private site. The right doenst apply.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. And that is with proper bug reports and logs.
I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
If the device is not supported then they shouldnt be posting a report at all. Do you have any idea how long it would take to "test" each bug report? The log is much faster and more useful. To many people are installing stupid stuff like xposed that randomly causes code crashs. This is where the logs will show this. If it is bug free on their devices then they can call it bug free. In the end it is all how it runs on their devices.
I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
If they are basing their rom off of CM then they accept it. People did it themselves. As already stated. You really must be new to this.
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
To be honest alot of people couldnt careless about CM. Any real team uses aosp as a base and not CM. This is due to CM changing the base AOSP code to fit what they think android should be. To me it sounds like you have a device that was dropped by the team and are now mad about it.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris
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Click to collapse
Once again CM has not posted here in years. AOSP will never be completely stable. Deal with it. and a news flash the oneplusone 2 will not have CM. They have already signed a contract exclusive in some places with another company.
Now to end this. Here is a link. Have a good read.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16682226&postcount=2441
Ok so I've read the cluster that is your post @XXchrisXX and I have to say a few things
First off, I'm probably the last person you would ever see saying anything remotely nice about CM but what's right is right....
1. There is no moral commitment or obligation or ANYTHING that CM (the open source side of things) has to follow. You are getting a FREE product. In exchange your feedback may or may not be useful to the developers and device maintainers. You signed no contract. You didn't agree to anything with CyanogenMod or any of it's developers or maintainers. XDA-Developers is and always has been a AT-YOUR-OWN-RISK type of site.
As stated above, you can stick with the stock ROM from the OEM if you want stability and some kind of warranty.
2. There are two different sides of CM. There is the open source side which is what you're griping about and then there's the company, CM Inc.
One is run by volunteers and hundreds of contributors (Open Source side) and the other one is run by employees who are under contract (CM Inc). Don't confuse the two and think that you can hold the open source side to the same things you hold the company to.
Do many employees from CM Inc. contribute to the Open Source side? Yes, but that is a hobby. You want a warranty and someone to yell at for not fixing bugs? Go buy a One Plus One and get you a warranty, simple as that!
3. Who are you to tell them (the Open Source side of CM) what they can and can't do? You should be lucky that your device is even supported by CM or any AOSP based custom ROM.
You talk about Samsung and other OEMs but what you fail to realize is that most OEMs give you a one and done. They give you kitkat and that's it.........they TOO move on to bigger and better things.
Don't be foolish here and think that your device that's 3 years old is going to run KitKat like a champ. You say you "understand" about open source drivers but yet continue to argue your pointless cluster because you think that CM (the open source side) should behave like the company.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! If you did, you would of never made this post and thank your lucky stars that your device even got on CM's radar for support.
Again, I know CM inc has done some messed up things in the past and are arguably run by a circus but what I hate more then them is ungrateful people like yourself.
Stop while you're ahead @XXchrisXX
What... the... fk...
Seriously... It's obvious you've violated XDA's "search before posting" rules.
Now, you've given enough information that you're obviously a haxxinos4 user. (You mention N7000 so probably a 4210, but I sort of recall seeing something indicating you might have a 4412 device...)
The only devices that actually have received benefits from Cyngn corporate are their "Cyanogen OS" devices. Oppo N1 and OnePlus One. Those are the two devices where Cyngn corporate staff have NDAs signed with the OEM and Qualcomm (and other suppliers) to fully support every piece of hardware within the device. Now, if your complaint is about those devices (which Cyngn HAS ****ed up too), you have a right to complain. But to be honest, you'll find little sympathy here since the Cyngn corporate guys and XDA don't really get along.
If you're a Haxxinos4 user, and actually PAID ATTENTION, you'd know that Samsung has continually bent the community over and ****ed them time and time again. (Especially in 2012, with the Superbrick fiasco and their broken promises at BABBQ 2012). You'd also know that basically everyone that USED to be a Haxxinos4 maintainer either retired from Android development or left CM after the Focal relicensing disaster. (And even after moving to Omni, Haxxinos4 is pretty much dead to most of us...)
So Mazda is right... While he (nor I) have any love for Cyngn (Kondick has blocked me on G+ for calling him out on various things back during the Focal relicensing fiasco - and I used to be the CM maintainer for multiple Haxxinos4 devices and the Oppo Find5)... Your post just reeks of "typical ungrateful user who can't even search to find the basic backstory of their device"...
Funny thing: Oppo N1 was Cyngn's first official device. Its predecessor, the Find 5, was entirely maintained by people who left CM to found Omni after the Focal relicensing fiasco. All of those people were former Haxxinos4 maintainers who were sick and tired of Samsung's bull**** already.
@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.
mazwoz said:
@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.
mazwoz said:
They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.
Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saint Isaiah said:
Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no, they did all of this before the OnePlus. The first CM phone was the Oppo N1, that contact came about a few months after this went down. Omni ROM was founded because of this.
Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.
Entropy512 said:
I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451752
To the OP @XXchrisXX or is it @Noteguy? I am so confused. One of you has 1 post, the other one of you has 4 (all of them in here). Would the real OP PLEASE STAND UP????
That being said, it's quite obvious that you have nothing to offer this community except for whinging - and if you were the only one doing that on XDA then I would say the community should take note and listen to what you have to say. BUT - seeing as you're just another whiny user I think we can all, CM included, just ignore you.
I can't say anything more than what @Entropy512 and @Mazda has already said. You must be very young, because you seriously remind me of my kids sometimes. Get stuff for free, but still complain because its not 100% to your liking. Not sure about Germany, but here we call that ungrateful. Long ago I was not satisfied with the lack of development for my aging device, instead of calling out developers that work, have a family and spend what little free time they have giving me free stuff, I learned to develop myself as to not bother them. Its not plug and play. Most do this for themselves and share. Ranting will only cause them not to share. If you want to kill support for your device faster than the hurdles that are already present with trying to piece together the little bits of open source code we can use, then your on the right track. If you want continued support then sometimes a simple Thank you works wonders. Nobody is making a living off of this (open source side at least). Donations are nice, but I know first hand that both @Mazda and I have on certain occasions returned donations to users. We don't do it because of the money, we do it because its fun. Don't take the fun out of it is all I'm saying. Be grateful that you aren't stuck on OE jellybean or less software. You owe/need the development community more than the developers do, the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit?
Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something
Or did rooting of phones harder?
Lately not many custom roms either
Wesley_NL said:
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit? Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something. Or did rooting of phones harder? Lately not many custom roms either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an Administrator, Moderator or any type of xda-developers Representative but, the xda-developers does value member feedback and the following thread was created to provide a place for such feedback.
[All XDA Members] Feedback/Recommendations for XDA by Fallen Spartan
I wish you the best of luck!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I Am The Egg Man,
They Are The Egg Men.
I Am The Walrus!
Coo Coo Cachoo!
I DO NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT VIA PM UNLESS ASKED/REQUESTED BY MYSELF.
PLEASE KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Wesley_NL said:
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit?
Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something
Or did rooting of phones harder?
Lately not many custom roms either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are in an age where most of the developers live in areas where more and more devices have locked bootloaders and/or patched kernels that prevent most of the known methods from being useable on those devices. Some of these developers are on contracts with their mobile carrier which limits the new devices available to them as "free" upgrades from their carrier and most aren't going through the trouble of buying a device from another source to activate on their network. This limits the amount of development because they usually only develop for the devices they own.
Then you factor in that the various device communities here are growing which means we have more user/members complaining and demanding cool stuff for their devices and that leads to the developers being less likely to share their work just to avoid the hassle from whining members.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Droidriven said:
We are in an age where most of the developers live in areas where more and more devices have locked bootloaders and/or patched kernels that prevent most of the known methods from being useable on those devices. Some of these developers are on contracts with their mobile carrier which limits the new devices available to them as "free" upgrades from their carrier and most aren't going through the trouble of buying a device from another source to activate on their network. This limits the amount of development because they usually only develop for the devices they own.
Then you factor in that the various device communities here are growing which means we have more user/members complaining and demanding cool stuff for their devices and that leads to the developers being less likely to share their work just to avoid the hassle from whining members.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see well if i could dev i would,
even if ask allot,
but i try to help with knowledge i have,
i thought devs moved over to a new forum,
thats why i asked ,
because i keep an eye out what my next device will be since i want to stay rooted so i can do more with my device
A basic rom sucks specialy bloated once
Wesley_NL said:
I see well if i could dev i would,
even if ask allot,
but i try to help with knowledge i have,
i thought devs moved over to a new forum,
thats why i asked ,
because i keep an eye out what my next device will be since i want to stay rooted so i can do more with my device
A basic rom sucks specialy bloated once
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way about development lately. I was just explaining a couple of factors that have influenced the situation.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Droidriven said:
I feel the same way about development lately. I was just explaining a couple of factors that have influenced the situation.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, but i thought it was only samsung where develop was dead but now that i scrolled for my nect device i noticed it was fairly quiet on xda
Wesley_NL said:
I understand, but i thought it was only samsung where develop was dead but now that i scrolled for my nect device i noticed it was fairly quiet on xda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...for some reason, Samsung and Verizon devices have, in the past, been where a large part of the development has been done. These are the ones that are mostly locked down, even the Verizon Pixel is locked when all the other Pixel devices aren't. Also, the newer android versions are getting more and more difficult to root. This is expected because the OEMs are constantly at work trying to find ways to prevent altering the devices, they don't consider us being the owners of the devices or software, we only pay for the privilege to "use" the devices and software.
There are plenty of other devices that are still supported and will be supported in the future
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Droidriven said:
Well...for some reason, Samsung and Verizon devices have, in the past, been where a large part of the development has been done. These are the ones that are mostly locked down, even the Verizon Pixel is locked when all the other Pixel devices aren't. Also, the newer android versions are getting more and more difficult to root. This is expected because the OEMs are constantly at work trying to find ways to prevent altering the devices, they don't consider us being the owners of the devices or software, we only pay for the privilege to "use" the devices and software.
There are plenty of other devices that are still supported and will be supported in the future
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured as much specialy at samsungs, someday we will be at ios locks , no bt sharing , no usb otg, headphone jack removed to prevent hack via that way,
Its just sad , we already pay so much for our devices so why not give people the freedom to root or not,
its not like everyone root, its just a small amount maby 10% since most use iphones anyway,
chinese device will most likely stay unlocked i hope ,
the once like one plus, xaomi mi, and so , tbh i like to have vanilla as much as possible not 90% bloat apps with same purpose like samsung have sucks, only drain batt and use space and recourses,
I was aiming for one plus 5 but still not what i wanted, samsung still is closest except it's rom, i like to stay led screen as one of my personal features since i watch alot anime on the go, adaway/adblock is my main consern i hate those adds in apps and those popup adds, further a good touchwiz like the 6x6 with settings , although it don't work for me anymore so swapped to nova but nova is not realy like i want it to be , it was nice in the s3 times, sound mods that dont hurt my ears like dolby atmos and viper4android also one of the things i want to keep using , and root is a good thing to have specialy for account swap and reroll in games,
Tbh i liked nokia n900 with maemo/meego and its stereo build in speakers for when i don't wan't to use headphones, and its lovely psychal keyboard
Samsung is good for its nice devices and nearly bezzeless screen , if compare to a sony Atleast
Wesley_NL said:
I figured as much specialy at samsungs, someday we will be at ios locks , no bt sharing , no usb otg, headphone jack removed to prevent hack via that way,
Its just sad , we already pay so much for our devices so why not give people the freedom to root or not,
its not like everyone root, its just a small amount maby 10% since most use iphones anyway,
chinese device will most likely stay unlocked i hope ,
the once like one plus, xaomi mi, and so , tbh i like to have vanilla as much as possible not 90% bloat apps with same purpose like samsung have sucks, only drain batt and use space and recourses,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is all opinion based. But reasonable opinions.
The Devs here at XDA arnt disappearing or doing any less developing for the majority. Instead the number of devices and different variants of those devices are growing so rapidly, that it lessens the probability of you obtaining a device that a Dev feels passionate about, and puts time into developing.
Also, technology advances rapidly. A mod that changes your status bar can quickly be abandoned due to capability issues in the next android version.
Dev's dont recieve a lot of monetary gain, or proper thanks or appreciation for doing what they do. Android is a very complex machine. Multiple layers, multiple languages, and unique in that design. Very complex, with scripts that have calls for this, and calls for that, which has to be constructed correctly to pull from any section, under any circumstance.
New android releases have ability to duplicate and sometimes enhance, with the combination of a launcher, those features of a custom rom. Which causes less people to have reason to need or want a custom rom.
The cell phone companies would probably love to give customers the freedom of unlocking boot loaders and rooting phones with ease. Think about it. Samsung has a year warranty on cell phones.. you root and you have now voided that warranty. They no longer fix your device for free. Also, if they helped you easily achieve root on your device then they gave you, the customer, what you wanted, without risk of being responsible and in the same token, made you a happy customer. Its the carrier companies you should be angry with. They are the ones who puts money into Samsungs pockets. I mean have you ever purchased a device directly from Samsung? Or did you obtain it through a carrier company? Almost all individuals originally get cell phones from carrier companies. That being said - if verizon puts a clause into the contract that promises Samsung they will buy so many devices for so many years, only if they will increase security and difficulty of getting super user access, which will decrease the chances of a average customer removing that device from Verizons carrier lock. Samsung isnt going to decline a major carrier. Its not only verizon. Its most carriers. How do you think they profit from selling a 200$ phone for 20$?
Now heres the good things happening in the cell phone world..
Its now mandated that all US carriers provide free unlocking, from the network carrier lock, on all GSM devices sold after a certain date. Granted you meet all the stipulations they require. So now greater freedom of phones, or at least a law, made by the US government helping customers fight big companies. When we all know, its not too often that happens.
Anyone can root any device. As long as you know the languages android is designed in. Its all open sourced. You can compile and build an exact replica of your phone, except a few parts. The problem is in the difficulty of doing that. The complexity slows progression of released one click roots, or flashable roots.. those were programmed by people or teams who put in hard work to simplify the process to increase the chances of average people to successfully root.. those people are the Devs your talking about vanishing..
Another big thing ive heard about. The new android 8.0 Oreo has made the process of building custom roms, more simplified. Basically making the construction of one phone, be the same construction of multiple devices and variants, making roms free from being device specific. Increasing the probability of you owning a device with the same build as a Dev thats releasing a rom. Reversing what i said at the start of this reply. This would also cut down on the need to port, and decrease rom bugs like audio and wifi or volte. Thats what my understanding of it is. If im incorrect about this please someone explain it better, in lamans terms..
All in all, I agree with your statement that less and less rom development is happening. But, I feel like that is about to change directions. Not headed back to the way it was, but a new path.. and im ready for it..
And try apex launcher. Gives you ability to hide apps even in the free version unlike nova.. pretty sleek and fast.. alot of customization.. that along with a pie app,which gives you almost like a "apps edge" feel.. i also heard about a way to change your quick tiles in newer android versions.. the only thing about that is, im not sure if they were talking about just changing the main tiles at the top or changing them altogether.. i hope altogether.. i never use smart view, or power saver.. instead id like to have pandora, xda labs, etc
juzten said:
This is all opinion based. But reasonable opinions.
The Devs here at XDA arnt disappearing or doing any less developing for the majority. Instead the number of devices and different variants of those devices are growing so rapidly, that it lessens the probability of you obtaining a device that a Dev feels passionate about, and puts time into developing.
Also, technology advances rapidly. A mod that changes your status bar can quickly be abandoned due to capability issues in the next android version.
Dev's dont recieve a lot of monetary gain, or proper thanks or appreciation for doing what they do. Android is a very complex machine. Multiple layers, multiple languages, and unique in that design. Very complex, with scripts that have calls for this, and calls for that, which has to be constructed correctly to pull from any section, under any circumstance.
New android releases have ability to duplicate and sometimes enhance, with the combination of a launcher, those features of a custom rom. Which causes less people to have reason to need or want a custom rom.
The cell phone companies would probably love to give customers the freedom of unlocking boot loaders and rooting phones with ease. Think about it. Samsung has a year warranty on cell phones.. you root and you have now voided that warranty. They no longer fix your device for free. Also, if they helped you easily achieve root on your device then they gave you, the customer, what you wanted, without risk of being responsible and in the same token, made you a happy customer. Its the carrier companies you should be angry with. They are the ones who puts money into Samsungs pockets. I mean have you ever purchased a device directly from Samsung? Or did you obtain it through a carrier company? Almost all individuals originally get cell phones from carrier companies. That being said - if verizon puts a clause into the contract that promises Samsung they will buy so many devices for so many years, only if they will increase security and difficulty of getting super user access, which will decrease the chances of a average customer removing that device from Verizons carrier lock. Samsung isnt going to decline a major carrier. Its not only verizon. Its most carriers. How do you think they profit from selling a 200$ phone for 20$?
Now heres the good things happening in the cell phone world..
Its now mandated that all US carriers provide free unlocking, from the network carrier lock, on all GSM devices sold after a certain date. Granted you meet all the stipulations they require. So now greater freedom of phones, or at least a law, made by the US government helping customers fight big companies. When we all know, its not too often that happens.
Anyone can root any device. As long as you know the languages android is designed in. Its all open sourced. You can compile and build an exact replica of your phone, except a few parts. The problem is in the difficulty of doing that. The complexity slows progression of released one click roots, or flashable roots.. those were programmed by people or teams who put in hard work to simplify the process to increase the chances of average people to successfully root.. those people are the Devs your talking about vanishing..
Another big thing ive heard about. The new android 8.0 Oreo has made the process of building custom roms, more simplified. Basically making the construction of one phone, be the same construction of multiple devices and variants, making roms free from being device specific. Increasing the probability of you owning a device with the same build as a Dev thats releasing a rom. Reversing what i said at the start of this reply. This would also cut down on the need to port, and decrease rom bugs like audio and wifi or volte. Thats what my understanding of it is. If im incorrect about this please someone explain it better, in lamans terms..
All in all, I agree with your statement that less and less rom development is happening. But, I feel like that is about to change directions. Not headed back to the way it was, but a new path.. and im ready for it..
And try apex launcher. Gives you ability to hide apps even in the free version unlike nova.. pretty sleek and fast.. alot of customization.. that along with a pie app,which gives you almost like a "apps edge" feel.. i also heard about a way to change your quick tiles in newer android versions.. the only thing about that is, im not sure if they were talking about just changing the main tiles at the top or changing them altogether.. i hope altogether.. i never use smart view, or power saver.. instead id like to have pandora, xda labs, etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the netherland samsung is 2 year waranty even if you root it, i asked samsung care when i fixed the camera, tbh i like the 6x6 mod with settings, i agree nova sucks lately , but i use nova sinxe s3 time when archidroid putted it in the rom and i have pro of nova , well im also ready to see what oreo is like , tbh i like custom roms as i told even if im not making big use of it but i want to stay custom + root for certain apps, also i am gonna see what real chinese brands gonna do with their devices i dont want to waste 1300 euro on a iphone or note8, unlike 99% of idiotic people that only get a device to show off and only to whatsapp and snapchat , also what is the next thing iphones is gonna steal? Nokias charl zies camera? , and that for a lowlife chinese product while a real chinese android is 10x beter,
But realy i look for a divice with atleast
Led screen arround 5.5"+
Nice smooth rom
Not a pre but srereo buildin speakers for if i don't want to wear a headphone
A micro sd card reader
No big bars like a sony more like s8 or mii mix
Good headphone amp
I think that kind im looking for,