Related
Cnet just put up a review of the Motorola Atrix, one of the most anticipated smart-phones. AT&T has blocked the ability to download 3rd party apps . "You can't install third-party apps" and goes on to say "No change of heart on third-party applications, as that feature is disabled on the Atrix."
Google's(andy rubin) response is to say let me market decide. I truly agree with this statement but when the carriers are in power (two year contracts) it doesn't let the market work. General consumers dont know know the difference between android phones. Consumer assume since they are getting an android phone, all android phones are the same. This blocking of 3rd party apps creates a bad user experience and users will blame android and not the carriers.
( http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/motorola-atrix-4g-at/4505-6452_7-34468396.html?tag=rvwBody )
Nice find. With that in mind, RIP Motorola.
Sent from the future.
__________________________
The quality of my life would be greatly reduced if I did not have nostrils.
Agree. Its a disgrace. Its a open source os yes. but dont kill core functionalities. Its giving people a bad view on android. Apple would scream bloody blue murder if that happened
That's AT&T for ya!
tangstang said:
That's AT&T for ya!
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Click to collapse
various other carriers around the world too.
But they're going to try and make the bootloader dev friendly, right? Don't make me lols.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
TheForgotten said:
various other carriers around the world too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see the rogers in your avatar.... oops, I'm current on the US carriers but as far as the other carriers around the world I'm not 100% up to speed. So screw all those carriers too!
Yea it sucks when they do it but, well you know they must get a cut from doing it.
If they didn't there wouldn't be so much fragmentation on the market.
Captivate 2.2.1 Paragon
With that in mind, always buy unlocked phones!
unbelievable how can they come with such a thing
"- boss I have an idea to boost sales: let restrict users from installing third party apps..."
"- this is a stoning idea! let's do it... "
This is pretty horrible when you buy a phone and expect it to function like every other phone that has the same OS.
With maybe Telecom's actually trying to invent their own App stores, this may be ATT's push into that direction.
copius said:
This is pretty horrible when you buy a phone and expect it to function like every other phone that has the same OS.
With maybe Telecom's actually trying to invent their own App stores, this may be ATT's push into that direction.
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Click to collapse
sure, in Europe orange is doing the same.
BazookaAce said:
Nice find. With that in mind, RIP Motorola.
Sent from the future.
__________________________
The quality of my life would be greatly reduced if I did not have nostrils.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RIP Motorola indeed. I bought the original Droid day it came out...Now I have the X and it's not the same experience (Of course until I changed Roms and multiple other things). But I was perfectly contented with the original, but in order to get that I HAD to change it. Verizon force fed me apps that I simply did not want. So it's also not just ATT.
and that is why we have XDA Developers... right?
Omnichron said:
and that is why we have XDA Developers... right?
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Click to collapse
Amen my friend! Before this forum I was lost and confused. XDA provided me light and guidance in the land of the lost known as MotoBlur. I found a map to the world of FlyX and apeX and others.
Thank you XDA. Thank you so much.
RIP Motorola
We can get past this.
What's with all the " RIP Motorola " Hackers, modders, overclockers etc probably account for less then 4% of the market. They are going to make money regardless with the Atrix being the first Dual Core phone released...it will do plenty well, no need to worry guys, lol.
As for the 3rd party apps being locked, honestly, how many people here who will (most likely won’t) admit that you bricked your phone doing something silly and then used the “ manufacture’s warranty “ to replace it? Good for them for locking it down if noob’s jump in head first without knowing what they are doing. It might even bring the cost of phone’s down and bring down that ETF! I don’t care to pay for anyone else’s mistakes. Download the app to your computer and transfer it to your phone if you want it that bad.
Motorola is not going anywhere and they have top quality devices. In my opinion, best on the market! Don’t be mad because you can’t afford one
Carriers are taking over Market billing and earn their cut, hence why they're blocking non-market apps. That said, it won't be long before Atrix is rooted and sideloading enabled.
Have little patience and faith in xda community, will ya?
I simply can't believe how US carriers get away with 2 year contracts. It's simply retarded how they take advantage of their customers.
Sent from my Legend using XDA App
Well this could be an issue, saw on the front page when I got on and didn't see it posted so thought I'd let y'all know: http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
If T-Mobile tries this or at&t or whoever I may just switch to some other service
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
I don't think t-mobile would ever do this. Sounds like Verizon being its usual self, greedy.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Uchennadi said:
I don't think t-mobile would ever do this. Sounds like Verizon being its usual self, greedy.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I think you are in denial...it said it was going to be implemented by the manufacturers, not the carriers...
Interesting, and not surprising. But, we must remember, some of these items are things the carriers would like to implement, and may in fact be testing, but would not necessarily pass legal/contractual muster. For instance, limiting full usage of the service/device just because one roots/modifies a device which he OWNS. Possible, yes; but unless you sign some very specific, insane terms of service agreeing to it beforehand, highly unlikely and definitely not in good faith. Especially when advertising otherwise. This of course assumes no theft of service or other nefarious activities on the carrier's network, which it owns. However, the consumer owns the device.
Now, I could see them making it as hard as possible to prevent rooting/modifying.
Just felt like sharing as this is just another worry in the simple life of owning a cell phone
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Yeah, I wish carriers would concentrate more on customer service and high quality; you know, like traditional values of a good company. It seems now all carriers, and I guess manufacturers to a degree, want to do is lock the consumer into something with marketing and half-truths. It is frustrating as a consumer sometimes. Of course some are worse offenders than others. Thanks for sharing.
Well yes there's no humanity in corporations there's mechanic perfection, if your the one broken piece your out. If you root your phone your warranties voided. Now if you root your phone, you don't have a phone yay! its ridiculous how companies try to control your property.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Honestly.. this might be google's wanting.. They say they are tightening the reins on licensing android to have better control of changes and who does what with the system to reduce "fragmentation" This is one of the reasons why they are not releasing the HC source yet. because they know that people will build the source and run it on devices not meant to run it.
I think we are starting to see the end of google being so "open"
Let's just hope they dont try to lock things down as much as apple does.. but even if they do people will ALWAYS find ways..
Think about it.. if they decide to make it MUCH harder or impossible to root your devices.. then there is little to no chance you will be able to run a "custom" rom.. I dont think it will be impossible but it will be hard work for the devs I'm sure.. So if you cant install a custom rom and have to rely on your carrier (who will now have a license agreement with google that says anything the carrier wants to change has to go through google for approval)for updates that further eliminates "fragmentation"
I really think google not releasing the HC source ad about their new licensing terms means there are big changes brewing..
Read these forums for a while and you'll notice countless threads where people completely screwed up their phones trying to root them or flash a splash screen or whatever. What do they do? They make the manufacturer pay for their mistakes. Even if they happen to have a margin of 100% on these phones, which I doubt, every user error warranty claim that happens completely erodes that profit. I'm not saying that this isn't a little unfair, android is indeed designed atm to be open to the end user, but maybe we should be placing a little bit on the shoulders of those people who come here and screw up their phones due to negligence then turn around and get an exchange at the cost of the community...
Honestly I wish they would deny those claims. Obviously the phone is linked to an account. Mark the account as a false warranty claim and close it until the phone is paid for.
graffixnyc said:
Honestly.. this might be google's wanting.. They say they are tightening the reins on licensing android to have better control of changes and who does what with the system to reduce "fragmentation" This is one of the reasons why they are not releasing the HC source yet. because they know that people will build the source and run it on devices not meant to run it.
I think we are starting to see the end of google being so "open"
Let's just hope they dont try to lock things down as much as apple does.. but even if they do people will ALWAYS find ways..
Think about it.. if they decide to make it MUCH harder or impossible to root your devices.. then there is little to no chance you will be able to run a "custom" rom.. I dont think it will be impossible but it will be hard work for the devs I'm sure.. So if you cant install a custom rom and have to rely on your carrier (who will now have a license agreement with google that says anything the carrier wants to change has to go through google for approval)for updates that further eliminates "fragmentation"
I really think google not releasing the HC source ad about their new licensing terms means there are big changes brewing..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I think this may be a little off, as an article just popped up (http://androidandme.com/2011/04/unc...nch-new-market-music-camera-and-gallery-apps/) stating that google was opensourcing all launchers and stock apps in the near future and maybe even updates all out of the market so everyone can have the same launcher and apps on any phone with the android market loaded on it
Hello everyone, in Spanish forum called htcmania we starts a petition to remove knox warranty void. Please go to the link. Thanks
https://www.change.org/es/peticione...-samsung-녹스-시스템을-제거합니다-최근에-새-소프트웨어-업데이트에서합니다#
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 usando Tapatalk
You can get a million signatures and i doubt it well change a thing. Sad, but true
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda app-developers app
SgtGoldy said:
You can get a million signatures and i doubt it well change a thing. Sad, but true
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I doubt too, but if anyone make nothing about it, nothing changes. It's only a minute!
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 usando Tapatalk
kandem said:
Yes I doubt too, but if anyone make nothing about it, nothing changes. It's only a minute!
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 usando Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda app-developers app
SgtGoldy said:
You can get a million signatures and i doubt it well change a thing. Sad, but true
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Knox is a great idea for everyone outside XDA. It supports BYOD so people can use a single device for their personal stuff while giving corporate IT the security they require for their stuff that co-exists on an employees phone. So employees don't have to carry around two separate phones and are always connected via a single voice and data connection for their business and personal communication. For non-business users, because Knox lives at the bootloader level, it prevents the wiping of a lost or stolen phone. I connect to multiple secure networks and haven't been able to root my phones for over a year so for me and those like me Knox is no big deal and most likely a benefit. I'll miss rooting to do stuff and then unrooting and still being able to keep "official" status but it is what it is.
Knox has been so well received in the B2B market LG is introducing something similar - LG Gate
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/528187/smartphone_vendors_target_byod_enterprises/
There are tens of millions of devices that can be sold B2B and about 5M "enthusiasts" on XDA who Samsung by their behavior think are expendable. Knox is here to stay so those impacted by it should send Samsung a message and not buy their devices. A petition won't change a thing.
BarryH_GEG said:
Knox is a great idea for everyone outside XDA. It supports BYOD so people can use a single device for their personal stuff while giving corporate IT the security they require for their stuff that co-exists on an employees phone. So employees don't have to carry around two separate phones and are always connected via a single voice and data connection for their business and personal communication. For non-business users, because Knox lives at the bootloader level, it prevents the wiping of a lost or stolen phone. I connect to multiple secure networks and haven't been able to root my phones for over a year so for me and those like me Knox is no big deal and most likely a benefit. I'll miss rooting to do stuff and then unrooting and still being able to keep "official" status but it is what it is.
Knox has been so well received in the B2B market LG is introducing something similar - LG Gate
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/528187/smartphone_vendors_target_byod_enterprises/
There are tens of millions of devices that can be sold B2B and about 5M "enthusiasts" on XDA who Samsung by their behavior think are expendable. Knox is here to stay so those impacted by it should send Samsung a message and not buy their devices. A petition won't change a thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be nice if it were something you could opt into during checkout or during your purchase of the device. I see the benefits to people who aren't about roms and rooting but it seriously inconveniences those of us who are :laugh:
SgtGoldy said:
It would be nice if it were something you could opt into during checkout or during your purchase of the device. I see the benefits to people who aren't about roms and rooting but it seriously inconveniences those of us who are :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I posted the "happy" stuff. There's a definite f-u message to the dev community in that Samsung moved the warranty flag to Knox where it's now tamper resistant. They didn't need to do that for anything security related. So Knox or not Samsung's not exactly embracing "enthusiasts."
I'm glad people are starting a petition. It's a petition that got our bootloaders unlocked for our asus prime? Or tf700...cant remember cuz I have both but the fact is the community got it unlocked.
monkey10120 said:
I'm glad people are starting a petition. It's a petition that got our bootloaders unlocked for our asus prime? Or tf700...cant remember cuz I have both but the fact is the community got it unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true and when I unlocked my bootloader it said my warranty was voided but when I had an issue with the internal battery they replaced even though the warranty was voided. I guess it depends on the problem in which the warranty is voided.
Hopefully Samsung can be more specific with what's voided and what's not.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
jetbruceli said:
This is true and when I unlocked my bootloader it said my warranty was voided but when I had an issue with the internal battery they replaced even though the warranty was voided. I guess it depends on the problem in which the warranty is voided.
Hopefully Samsung can be more specific with what's voided and what's not.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember the argument people had with the warranty too. I'm glad that they fixed the battery because it was hardware related and not software which is why this voided warranty for unlocked devices is ridiculous.
monkey10120 said:
I remember the argument people had with the warranty too. I'm glad that they fixed the battery because it was hardware related and not software which is why this voided warranty for unlocked devices is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was great Asus did that but I said it in the email and on the Form that I had unlocked it and rooted. They fixed it with no questions. And I am sure with this knox thing we will still get our stuff fixed as long as it's truly their malfunction
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Signed the petition.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
The real alternative here is an AOSP or Developer edition Note. Samsung is trying to entrench in Enterprise, Knox is their lever. They won't be removing it.
BarryH_GEG said:
Knox is a great idea for everyone outside XDA. It supports BYOD so people can use a single device for their personal stuff while giving corporate IT the security they require for their stuff that co-exists on an employees phone. So employees don't have to carry around two separate phones and are always connected via a single voice and data connection for their business and personal communication. For non-business users, because Knox lives at the bootloader level, it prevents the wiping of a lost or stolen phone. I connect to multiple secure networks and haven't been able to root my phones for over a year so for me and those like me Knox is no big deal and most likely a benefit. I'll miss rooting to do stuff and then unrooting and still being able to keep "official" status but it is what it is.
Knox has been so well received in the B2B market LG is introducing something similar - LG Gate
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/528187/smartphone_vendors_target_byod_enterprises/
There are tens of millions of devices that can be sold B2B and about 5M "enthusiasts" on XDA who Samsung by their behavior think are expendable. Knox is here to stay so those impacted by it should send Samsung a message and not buy their devices. A petition won't change a thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This... The enthusiast community is a very very small segment of the population and Knox is a feature that is sold to the community at large, especially buisnesses wary of android's reputation for malware and security problems (wether true or not, it's what's out there). Get used to this, because eventually all phones will be locked down like this. Companies may lose the enthusiast segment but they gain the far larger and more profitable business market. If anyone thinks that's not an easy choice, you're kidding yourself.
LOL, I thought someone is publishing the digital signatures for a Knox bit free boot loader....
Signed
Galaxy Note 3 | SM-9005 | Tapatalk
BarryH_GEG said:
Knox is a great idea for everyone outside XDA. It supports BYOD so people can use a single device for their personal stuff while giving corporate IT the security they require for their stuff that co-exists on an employees phone. So employees don't have to carry around two separate phones and are always connected via a single voice and data connection for their business and personal communication. For non-business users, because Knox lives at the bootloader level, it prevents the wiping of a lost or stolen phone. I connect to multiple secure networks and haven't been able to root my phones for over a year so for me and those like me Knox is no big deal and most likely a benefit. I'll miss rooting to do stuff and then unrooting and still being able to keep "official" status but it is what it is.
Knox has been so well received in the B2B market LG is introducing something similar - LG Gate
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/528187/smartphone_vendors_target_byod_enterprises/
There are tens of millions of devices that can be sold B2B and about 5M "enthusiasts" on XDA who Samsung by their behavior think are expendable. Knox is here to stay so those impacted by it should send Samsung a message and not buy their devices. A petition won't change a thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is not that Knox is bad or not , the problem is that consumers don't have a choice. The sad truth is this is happening everywhere from food to computers. I agree that we should do something but I personally think it's already too late.
jetbruceli said:
And I am sure with this knox thing we will still get our stuff fixed as long as it's truly their malfunction
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt that very much.
They'll take one look at it and bounce it back as null and void.
I am planning to buy Note 3, I already have S4 with older rom and bootloader (canadian variant).
So I understand (somewhat) this Knox system.
If I do get Note 3, I can't install custom recovery and flash custom roms?
What would flag the Knox system, the warranty becoming void, is it installing custom recovery, or rom? What about the rooting, does that affect knox as well?
Signed ?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk now Free
Regarding Samsung's "Warranty Bit" Sh**(Originally from http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=49345592)
For those of you who are as ticked off as I am about Samsung's new warranty bit/voided warranty behavior due to a suspected E-fuse in their latest devices, YOU (yes, YOU) need to speak up and make sure that Samsung executives are starkly aware of who pays for their 50' yachts and their effing Bentleys! Tell them that your support for them is easily dissolved and that this new "practice" of theirs is one of the quickest and easiest ways to dissolve it.
Consumers are the ones who pay Samsung's bills. This is a truth that they would rather not acknowledge, but given a force that's great enough in numbers, they will yield to the will of their consumers.
Just look at Microsoft and Windows 8 (8.1), as well as their recent release of Office 2013 (license transfer). Microsoft has got to be one of THE most stubborn corporations in the world right now, but even they have yielded to the overwhelming force that is the consumer, and more specifically, their bank accounts. Ever heard the phrase "money talks"? Oh, it most certainly talks.. We as consumers have the ability to make our money talk collectively, so, if we want to see an end to this new way that they're giving their customers the shaft, we need to join voices and speak UP.
Drown them with emails, light up their tech support lines, and paint this picture for them as clearly as you can. Tell them that you WILL NOT continue to purchase their devices when they deny warranty service simply because of a "warranty bit", or for other ridiculous and non-sensical reasons, and tell them that Knox should come as an OPTION and NOT A MANDATE. I've listed a few ways to do that below. If anyone else has other/better ways of doing so, then by all means, share with the class.
Samsung USA's online customer feedback form: https://contactus.samsung.com/customer/contactus/formmail/mail/MailQuestionProduct.jsp?SITE_ID=1&titleCode=1
Samsung USA's toll-free customer service phone number: 1-855-SAM-USA1 (1-855-726-8721) 9am – 9pm ET, 7 days a week
Samsung Mobile USA's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobileUSA
If there's a forum on XDA Developers or ANY OTHER WEBSITE where you think this post might help spread the word about this, then you have my expressed written consent to copy this entire post (verbatim, from beginning to end please, including this part at the bottom) and re-post it WHEREVER you think it might help this cause. I've attached a text file that includes this post, as well as all the formatting/coloring (Attention Re-Poster: please re-attach the same text file).
Go, contact Samsung NOW!
(Reserved)
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
aydc said:
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
I can't believe we're still talking about ram usage of some small apps even if we've got 2/3 gbs of ram to spare...
Skander1998 said:
Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then, KNOX using no RAM would be better. If half the owners of Note3 don't use KNOX, what's the point in it even using any?
Why have a device that's so powerful but then put on software that just hogs. 2.5GB memory yet the TouchWiz and the other crap that Samsung put in it take up so much.
OP, after reading your post, I find it very difficult to comprehend the exact purpose and reasoning that you are trying to convey. After all, it sounds that you are merely butthurt that you got denied warranty because you tampered with your device.
However, you must try to understand how the business world works first.
Your issue is a problem that a miniscule portion of the market experiences. Those of us who consider themselves "leet haxxorz" tend to enjoy tinkering with their devices to streamline the user experience. However, things often go wrong - phones and tablets get bricked. Then the frustrated consumer heads back to Samsung to demand repair/exchange.
As a corporation, Samsung must have noticed that this was costing them a significant amount of money, and hence KNOX was created as a comprehensive tool with a feature to instantly diagnose whether product has been tampered with.
The average user that understands absolutely nothing about technology could care less whether KNOX exists or not.
And as long as KNOX will save the company money in the long run, your persistent complaints will accomplish absolutely nothing. Don't forget that we represent a fairly insignificant portion of the market. Encouraging users to tamper with products encourages liability which costs money. Money that no company is willing to pay.
The only advice I can offer you is to ensure you are not voiding any sort of warranty before you partake in certain activities. By doing research I was able to avoid the 0x1 situation, and retain my warranty. Of course, I had to sacrifice rooting and installing a custom ROM.
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW...which will lead to 0x1 flag...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
jjnhl68 said:
...nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
jjnhl68 said:
...Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
jjnhl68 said:
..Most expensive device, with many weaknesses..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
jjnhl68 said:
...No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
jjnhl68 said:
...And everything with no clear explanation!?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
jjnhl68 said:
... I won't buy their product soon!...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
Khizar said:
no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also ppl have flashed with tripping their knox!!!
Khizar said:
as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I should loose my warranty because of that???
Khizar said:
its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See my point!!! No need for bloat, ok?
Khizar said:
what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was when i have bought it!!! For 6 months my phone was 3 times in service for repairs under warranty (microphone, speaker, display defects)
We all know about weak points of S4, we are using them, aren't we?
Khizar said:
how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on 4.2.2 in time of buying
Khizar said:
the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Khizar said:
only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Khizar said:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I already said, in summer 2013. you couldn't know Samsung's intentions, ok?
On any phone rooting or tampering with your phone voids your warranty no questions asked.
On every root thread the first thing is a warning telling you your warranty is now void.
Your malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and fake it to get free servicing is now not possible hence the whining.
PS: flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
Journyman16 said:
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
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i cannot agree with you more.
its all about consumer rights and samdung has no rights to force enterprise solutions on private individuals who have no use for NSA grade security.
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
The logic of not being able to downgrade to a older bootloader and not tripping knox is absolute bullcrap.afterall,it is samdung's official ROM and flashing it trips knox and samdung claims you are trying to be funny with their devices(yeah,that's right,you pay top dollars for their phones and it does not belong to you.PERIOD),so what does that tell you?
samdung going the way of apple and trying to be a corporate phone ala blackberry????
Bi*ch please, blackberry was the top corporate device coz its secured as hell.but jus look at how many ppl actually want to use a blackberry to take pictures,listen to music,surf the net,play games on it or hell even show it to frds they have a new model.
samdung,you have the best hardware in the market,i'll give you that.but your TW sucks,loaded with bloatware and is at best irritable when compared with any custom rom and laughable when compare with CM.
with knox,you can have it.no more samdung's knox-pox time for me to switch to something more friendly.
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
frostmore said:
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
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This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
lilstevie said:
This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
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Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
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And compared to some devices that don't even let you downgrade at all, whether you want to void your warranty or not are any different because?
frostmore said:
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
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Okay, first of all, using terms like "samdung" is just making you sound like a petulant child. It really does not help your case at all. Secondly, you are contradicting yourself in one swoop here, saying that they should be able to protect their rights, but they shouldn't have a mechanism to be able to protect their rights.
frostmore said:
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
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Please tell me what the difference is. Sure I get why you want to use Greenify, or TB, but tell me how from the perspective of the manufacturer how they can tell the difference on a broken phone. Why should the OEM have to pay for all those devices bricked through stupid actions of users with root access (and it is more common than you think) for the benefit of the few that will not destroy their device in the process.
frostmore said:
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.
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Samsungs policy towards warranty is your device is excluded through the act of modification, that is to hardware or software. Sony and HTC have a similar policy rooting, in fact I don't think I have seen any device on the market where the warranty is maintained on rooting. Please note here, I'm not saying that people haven't gotten their devices repaired after rooting. I'm simply noting the act of rooting in most territories around the world constitutes breach of terms for the warranty and therefore makes that null and void.
frostmore said:
with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
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Um, no. Samsung are like "we are okay with everything, but note that modification of the software on your device constitutes voiding your warranty". Unless you have a carrier variant like an AT&T device or Verizon device the bootloader is unlocked, as in, it was never locked down in the first place, you can open up heimdall or odin with the device connected in download mode, and flash it to your hearts content. Downgrading is a tricky situation. Samsung are well within their rights, and in some cases required to as per IP licensing to keep the boot environment secure.
frostmore said:
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
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You mean consumer rights that people have been abusing for years?
frostmore said:
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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I don't worry I'm no fanboy of any device. I am however one that is a firm supporter that if people hadn't been abusing the warranty procedures that these sorts of measures would never have been implemented.
If I have administrator rights in my computer why I can't have the same in my phone?
Does being an administrator in your windows desktop computer void your warranty?
Why I can't unninstal all the apps that I don't use?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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Ha ha, Samdung!! Like Samsung but like dung. Aww man, did you come up with yourself? That is brilliant
AllanJ60 said:
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
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*grins* Yep, you are right... you're wrong. It isn't the Knox software people are upset about, it is the Knox counter that is built in. It is set at 0x0 and if you do anything with your phone except take Samsung OTA updates, which have been tightened even further once they realised the Devs had found a way around their little booby trap, you trigger a change of state in that counter to 0x1.
It is supposed to be irreversible and you can trigger it by doing things Android users have been doing since Android came out. A good number of what are now standard apps require root access and providing that will trigger Knox. As pointed out, if you decide you don't like a particular OTA update (say to KitKat) and try to go back to a previous version (say the one your phone came with) you trigger Knox.
And Samsung is voiding warranties because Knox is triggered. Blanket voiding as far as can be determined. Doesn't matter if there's a hardware issue (say the charge circuit stopped) they will void because that trigger is at 0x1.
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS. That's why I'm making the switch (plus I couldn't stand the screen size of iPhone).
But now I realize Samsung is behaving like Apple:
- Knox highly discourages (prevents) rooting, just like Apple tries to prevent jailbreaks
- Firmware can't be downgraded, just like on iOS too
Part 1 is still acceptable under the pretext of corporate security, especially since end users generally have no issues getting warranty even with Knox tripped.
But part 2 is simply inconceivable IMO. No downgrading is just ridiculous. It's way worse than part 1 because at least users can choose to void warranty and ignore Knox, but part 2 is maintaining an iron control.
That is the really stupid bit. I have been upgrading, downgrading when I wanted to since the galaxy s days and now this not being able to downgrade really ppppppeeee me off. Didn't care about Knox and tripped it.... But...?... Let's set what's out there come September when my contract runs out
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When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
fterh said:
When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
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I get it. The hardware is still a good value, but I'll probably look elsewhere in the future.
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
Take a lil bit, bit by bit til theres nothing less
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It's not just Samsung others are going the same route, LG for instance says it got something similar to KNOX in the pipeline, HTC makes it difficult as possible to root their phones, Sony is also going to follow a similar path to Samsung & LG as they all want the corp market to buy their smartphones and feel safe, sod the general consumer that not interested in any of this.
The option in the near future if you want to tinker without tripping something or blowing an efuse is to buy a Nexus.
Its also because of the data breach that chinese and NSA are doing. They want our phones and its data to be safe. Not like modified system files with backdoors and trojans. So its for our own safety. Yes u can always change the layouts, launchers and other stuff. But changing kernel and rooting devices to use system procedures. These are just for developers and those who actually know abt stuff. Not for the common man.
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Because Samsung need sale by millions on US like Apple but must be very Secured:
Quote from another post:
...The Knox Bootloader that is the first from a new type of bootloaders, block and not permit many things.
To understand what is the Knox and is bootloader and kernel read this:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/overview/technical-details See also the video How to Use on it...
On the first attachment we see at left the usual Android, at right we see the Android whit the Samsung Security System Knox in white and the usual until now in blue. Whit this System people can have like two phones on one. A personal whit his own appl and a second secured to work on Enterprises and Governments and others.
The Knox Bootloader protect the secured part and not permit the flashing by Odin some files that it consider not secured like the oldest bootloaders. Then the Knox Warranty Void: 0x0 is first of all the Security System Knox secured. 0x1 is not secured.
For example I quote this from that doc/link:
Samsung KNOX offers a multi-faceted security solution rooted in the tamper-resistant device hardware, through the Linux kernel and Android operating system. The first line of defense against malicious attacks, Samsung KNOX is currently approved to run on US Department of Defense networks. (If flag 0x0, my opinion).
fterh said:
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS.
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And there's your problem.
Android is open, customizable, and free - at source code level. However, individual implementations (such as Samsung's Touchwiz) have so such requirement to be so.
People like us, who like to hack around with our phones, are not the market that Samsung is aiming for. The vast, vast majority of Samsung Android users are never going to root their phone, manually upgrade/downgrade their firmware via Odin, or install custom ROMs. These users are *never* going to even thing about tripping Knox, let alone do anything that might trip it.
To be fair, Samsung are not alone in this - pretty much all major phone vendors are doing similar. Someone works out how to get S-OFF on the HTC One, and HTC release a patch to prevent it.
Going forward, I see a time coming where if you want to have complete control over your device, you will have to buy a developer edition.
Regards,
Dave
Really? Another thread to whine about Knox?
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ultramag69 said:
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
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Click to collapse
This post basically nails all the reasons in one fell swoop..
And then they are forcing to use original accessories which is really really stupid of Samsung.
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
aydc said:
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
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C'mon!!
OK. I've had rooted and hacked everyphohe I've had.. Since Nokia monocromatic days, Sony Ericsson devices and now android... I've used almost every custom ROM.. Applied hundreds of modifications, etc, etc... Trust me. Its funny how ppl complain about software and this Knox thing... Android continues to be on top of iOS for many many reasons... Many many reasons!!
I personally like to root .. Of course but with power comes disorder.. Yes maybe cosmetic custom is one of the reasons for rooting..and its fun. But as it comes with plenty of features so it comes with problems never experienced on stock.. Like freezes, restarts,etc, etc.. U know what am talking about.. Most of us have chosen the Gnote 3 for its innumerable capacities over almost every device on the market. It is a beast. No doubt. For me I haven't seen yet any modification or feature that make me wanna root my note.. It is a beast as it is now. Am not running KK.. Uh uh.. I'll wait for a more completed version... I have more than 15 years using cellphones and customizing them.. And now it seems that companies are getting to know what customers need in their devices .. That's why rooting will no longer be necessary.. Why don't you sit and think about this? I've root my Sgs2 and could have the multi window feature when it came out.. And the list goes and goes.. Arent you able to see we are going to another place now with stock phones?? Actually CM will have its on device sponsored by Google itself !!! See for example the multiple features of the moto x ... It is like R2D2 haha.. Personally I'm happy with the nowadays devices..let s see what's next...
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At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
pete4k said:
At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
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Soon change in a few years. You'll see Samsung become more and more like Apple in time.
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
aydc said:
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
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Just like the sales of apple is now falling I believe it will also happen to samsung.
Another thing not related to your comment since they've stopped allot people from rooting and developing due to the warranty issues. Development is Damn slow now. Like they did with gokhanmoral (think thats how you spell it all credits to him) with the s2 they had cherry picked from his kernel tree to implement into the stock to make stock run even smoother. Now there's only really one kernel in development for the international model compared to what previous phones had where there were quite a range.
What's the point of having really high end specs if you can't really exploit them? and sticking to something which much lower and play 'safe'.
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