Database Info

Since it runs vanilla UI...

Does that mean if you experience a problem and its rooted, they wouldn't care if you returned it?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

if they figure out if its rooted they wont return it if its stock they most likely wont figure out that its rooted just depends on how smart the perosn is

So you'd still have to unroot just incase?
I figured it being a straight up google phone, aosp and all, they would embrace the modding
I guess we still gots a ways to go before that happens
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

A_Flying_Fox said:
So you'd still have to unroot just incase?
I figured it being a straight up google phone, aosp and all, they would embrace the modding
I guess we still gots a ways to go before that happens
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google, yes. Samsung/Best Buy/hardware OEMs, no. Google doesn't deal with the consequences of someone bricking their phone by being stupid and the revenue loss from a warranty claim/exchange. That being said, HTC usually honored Nexus One warranties on things like hardware failures unrelated to rooting(i.e. power button fail).
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

unremarked said:
Google, yes. Samsung/Best Buy/hardware OEMs, no. Google doesn't deal with the consequences of someone bricking their phone by being stupid and the revenue loss from a warranty claim/exchange. That being said, HTC usually honored Nexus One warranties on things like hardware failures unrelated to rooting(i.e. power button fail).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't lived in Texas since 1983, so I can't speak directly for Texas, but in many jurisdictions, such as California (where I live) the warrantor has no choice but to honor the warranty on a hardware failure just because a software modification was made unless the warrantor can prove that the software mod caused the hardware failure.
Warranty law in many (most?) states in the US specifically allows for user modifications to a product not voiding the warranty unless said mod causes the failure. A common example is that a modification to your car with an aftermarket stereo system doesn't void the warranty on the drivetrain.
YMMV.
Personally I would unroot and re-lock before exchanging/returning, it's really not that hard (several threads discussing how), but I wouldn't stress over it either if I didn't. Best Buy's certainly not going to go digging into the phone's settings and software to see if you've rooted. They're going to turn it on to see if it works, and they're going to check it for physical damage, that's pretty much it.
Again, several threads already discussing this if you search for them...

distortedloop said:
I haven't lived in Texas since 1983, so I can't speak directly for Texas, but in many jurisdictions, such as California (where I live) the warrantor has no choice but to honor the warranty on a hardware failure just because a software modification was made unless the warrantor can prove that the software mod caused the hardware failure.
Warranty law in many (most?) states in the US specifically allows for user modifications to a product not voiding the warranty unless said mod causes the failure. A common example is that a modification to your car with an aftermarket stereo system doesn't void the warranty on the drivetrain.
YMMV.
Personally I would unroot and re-lock before exchanging/returning, it's really not that hard (several threads discussing how), but I wouldn't stress over it either if I didn't. Best Buy's certainly not going to go digging into the phone's settings and software to see if you've rooted. They're going to turn it on to see if it works, and they're going to check it for physical damage, that's pretty much it.
Again, several threads already discussing this if you search for them...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However, if someone does something like installs an improperly tuned or generally misuses a nitrous oxide/supercharged system which could directly lead to damage to the vehicle. I think that's a closer example to what folks typically do with a rooted devices than the car stereo. A slight digression and we could probably spend all day in "What if" scenarios.
But yeah, mate, that's my understanding and experience as well. If the warranty claim is for a hardware issue unrelated to the modified software, HTC(don't know about Samsung, but I'd imagine it'd be the same) generally honor the warranty. My response was to @A_Flying_Fox's question regarding the official support on modding, which I highly doubt we'll ever have from hardware manufacturers due to the aforementioned revenue loss from warranty claims/exchanges from folks being silly. Also I believe the one thing exempt from any warranty repair/most insurances is water damage.
When I lurked the Nexus One forums, I did see threads pop up regarding the warranty with one of three outcomes: Full repair with no questions asked, hardware repair with a $120 charge to replace motherboard(even if this was not the cause of the fault), or flatout refusal due to the language of the unlocked bootloader explicitly saying your warranty is now void. I'll point out here that the language on the Nexus S says your warranty MAY be void.
Like you, however, I'd recommend at least relocking the bootloader before returning the phone and/or sending it in for a claim.

unremarked said:
However, if someone does something like installs an improperly tuned or generally misuses a nitrous oxide/supercharged system which could directly lead to damage to the vehicle. I think that's a closer example to what folks typically do with a rooted devices than the car stereo. A slight digression and we could probably spend all day in "What if" scenarios.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that was exactly my point - if you do an "unauthorized" mod that causes the hardware malfuntion, warranty service can be denied.
If you do a modification that is not the cause of the hardware malfunction, warranty service for that hardware malfunction can NOT be denied.
If you overclock your CPU and then the CPU fries itself, you're SOL on the warranty repair.
If you root the phone and the volume switch stops working, or the screen stops working, they can't deny warranty service. Rooting in and of itself doesn't do anything that would cause a hardware malfunction; though it may let you do things (like overclocking) that can.
I'm talking about what is LEGAL, at least in my state, not what some company will try to get away with if you let them. It doesn't matter what some people say they've experienced with HTC on an N1 claim, unless they went to court over it and lost.
This isn't really the thread to discuss it, but since you gave such an extreme example that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand, I felt compelled to respond.
Peace.

distortedloop said:
But that was exactly my point - if you do an "unauthorized" mod that causes the hardware malfuntion, warranty service can be denied.
If you do a modification that is not the cause of the hardware malfunction, warranty service for that hardware malfunction can NOT be denied.
If you overclock your CPU and then the CPU fries itself, you're SOL on the warranty repair.
If you root the phone and the volume switch stops working, or the screen stops working, they can't deny warranty service. Rooting in and of itself doesn't do anything that would cause a hardware malfunction; though it may let you do things (like overclocking) that can.
I'm talking about what is LEGAL, at least in my state, not what some company will try to get away with if you let them. It doesn't matter what some people say they've experienced with HTC on an N1 claim, unless they went to court over it and lost.
This isn't really the thread to discuss it, but since you gave such an extreme example that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand, I felt compelled to respond.
Peace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All excellent points, mate. I'll admit that perhaps that wasn't the best example, but I'm not really a car guy.
However, I'm going to disagree on two points: One, I think this discussion(aside from the car talk fail on my part) is on topic given the OP's question was regarding return/warranty claim. Two, the legal aspect you mentioned. In order to unlock the bootloader on the Nexus One, you had to agree to avoid your warranty.
You were not forced to do this, you were not coerced into doing this, nor was it something you could do by accident You must have knowingly and intentionally set out to unlock your bootloader. The language was very clear on what the consquences of this action were. If someone were to sue HTC over their refusal to honor warranty, regardless of the issue, I believe they would lose because they agreed to void their warranty when they unlocked.
Here is the language HTC used:
HTC said:
If you unlock the bootloader, you will be able to install custom operating system software on the phone.
A custom OS is not subject to the same testing as the original OS, and can cause your phone and installed applications to stop working properly. As a result, unlocking the bootloader will void any warranty on your phone.
To prevent unauthorized access to your personal data, unlocking the bootloader will also delete all personal data from your phone(a "factory data reset"). Press the Volume Up/Down button to select Yes or No. Then press the power button to continue.
Yes: Unlock bootloader (and void your warranty)
No: Do not unlock and restart phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

unremarked said:
All excellent points, mate. I'll admit that perhaps that wasn't the best example, but I'm not really a car guy.
However, I'm going to disagree on two points: One, I think this discussion(aside from the car talk fail on my part) is on topic given the OP's question was regarding return/warranty claim. Two, the legal aspect you mentioned. In order to unlock the bootloader on the Nexus One, you had to agree to avoid your warranty.
You were not forced to do this, you were not coerced into doing this, nor was it something you could do by accident You must have knowingly and intentionally set out to unlock your bootloader. The language was very clear on what the consquences of this action were. If someone were to sue HTC over their refusal to honor warranty, regardless of the issue, I believe they would lose because they agreed to void their warranty when they unlocked.
Here is the language HTC used:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only if the unlocking caused (or could have caused) the failure you're seeking warranty repair for.
Unlocking the bootloader could in no way cause the volume buttons or the earphone jack assembly to go bad, therefore just the fact that you unlocked the bootloader would not allow the manufacturer to deny you repairs for the volume buttons or speaker jack if they went bad.
It's a matter of statute. Your jurisdiction may be different.

"KNOX WARRANTY VOID" - only unfortunate wording? Please share your thoughts.

"KNOX WARRANTY VOID" - only unfortunate wording? Please share your thoughts.
The flag everybody talks about is called "KNOX WARRANTY VOID". Considering that this text has been come up with by some non-native english speaking Korean it occured to me that this means actually something really different from what most people tend to understand. (I'm non-native English speaking too as you can see by reading this weird sentence, but I hope you get it nevertheless )
What most think of when they read "KNOX WARRANTY VOID":
"Device warranty void"
What I think of when I read "KNOX WARRANTY VOID":
"Knox warranty void".
Do you see the difference? I think that Samsung has to give some kind of warranty that the feature Knox works as it should (that means separating private data from enterprise data) in order to make companies use this feature. That's because they rely on it. Normally the flag is toggled by manipulating the device in a way that no one can assure that Knox works anymore as intended. A non-Samsung process running as root may cross process boundaries and give access to data it should not. So if a big company faces this situation they say: Hey Samsung, you assured that the device is secure but now look at this! The company could also make a claim for compensation!!!
But then Samsung can take a look at the device and say: "No way. The Knox warranty is void on this device. It is not secure anymore. It's written here."
That's it I think. It's not about denying the regular consumer warranty. It's about denying the warranty that the feature knox works as intended. That's why the flag is called "Knox warranty void". Maybe it's a bit unfortunately worded.
What do you think?

Your thought is just as valid as the other.
I guess someone from Samsung would need to inform us, or someone with a broken cellphone that is 0x1 would need to try to see if they could get it repaired or replaced under warranty.

Considering what Samsung did lately, the (for the customer) worst possible explanation is probably true.
What I read here, the phone is rootable and will boot without ever showing the knox flag. Maybe knox apps will not work anymore, but it stands to reason, that a sufficiently powerful enemy could likely modify the OS in a way to emulate the knox flag. To get around this, some kind of trusted cryptographic store would be needed, that only releases keys if the firmware checks out clean. However, if you have that, then you wouldn't need that efused flag in the first place. (Correct me please, if I am wrong here.)

I think your point may well be valid. I have read somewhere that people with the knox void are still getting their phone fixed by Samsung for free. .. so. ....
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Yes, I always assumed that it means the "Knox warranty" is void, not specifically the customer warranty. Basically the phone can't be used in a Knox environment anymore. To most end users this will have no impact since Knox is only useful to companies that will pay Samsung for the privilege... It's basically a push from Samsung to try to emulate the former success of Blackberry in large companies. I doubt it'll be very successful, and anyway it's already possible to root a device without triggering Knox, so in effect the warranty means absolutely nothing for the moment... (like most failed DRM schemes!)
I suppose it could be an issue for people who will want to resell the device in the future. Knox voided devices will probably sell a bit cheaper than pristine ones, even though it shouldn't matter to most buyers...

Several people have already reported being denied warranty service due to knox flag. OP your understanding of "Knox Warranty Void" is conjecture. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position there is no use in guessing. Why make their job easier by misguiding users to believe that you are speaking from a privileged position?

Bruce lee roy said:
Several people have already reported being denied warranty service due to knox flag. OP your understanding of "Knox Warranty Void" is conjecture. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position there is no use in guessing. Why make their job easier by misguiding users to believe that you are speaking from a privileged position?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The truth is that his conjecture is just as possible as the current conjecture. Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.. "Warranty Void" is all that is needed if the customer's phone warranty was being voided.
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
But then again.. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position it's just 'guessing'.
It's also very clear, at least to me, that the OP was posing a question and not speaking from a privileged position.

Breach said:
Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the beginning, my understanding of it was like this:
Knox is a hardware assisted security architecture. The knox part in the warranty flag is to show that it is hardware assisted too, and so immune to resetting or tampering.
Of course, this is conjecture, too.

cgi said:
From the beginning, my understanding of it was like this:
Knox is a hardware assisted security architecture. The knox part in the warranty flag is to show that it is hardware assisted too, and so immune to resetting or tampering.
Of course, this is conjecture, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Knox - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox
It's a mobile security and cloud identity technology. Knox is now described as an anti tampering technology. I makes sense that they would attempt to have a way to find out if the system was tampered with.
Time will tell..

Breach said:
The truth is that his conjecture is just as possible as the current conjecture. Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.. "Warranty Void" is all that is needed if the customer's phone warranty was being voided.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't think you realize it, you've just proved my point with your double talk.
Breach said:
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... More conjecture
Breach said:
It's also very clear, at least to me, that the OP was posing a question and not speaking from a privileged position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ending a post with a question mark does not automatically indicate the op's intention is to pose a question. The majority of the op is written as a statement: first starting off by stating an opinion that his/her control of the Korean language (privileged position) gives them a distinct advantage to interpret the legal jargon released by Samsung. This claim by itself is ridiculous. What does the Korean language have to do with the wording of a warranty for English speaking populations? Do you really think the multi billion dollar international conglomerate, known as Samsung, is incapable of producing a decent translation on the TITLE of their legally binding warranty? Seriously people...

I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Sent from my Galaxy Note III using Tapatalk

RavenY2K3 said:
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You actually got a straight answer out of them? In plain and legible English? I can hardly believe it...

Bruce lee roy said:
Although I don't think you realize it, you've just proved my point with your double talk.
... More conjecture
Ending a post with a question mark does not automatically indicate the op's intention is to pose a question. The majority of the op is written as a statement: first starting off by stating an opinion that his/her control of the Korean language (privileged position) gives them a distinct advantage to interpret the legal jargon released by Samsung. This claim by itself is ridiculous. What does the Korean language have to do with the wording of a warranty for English speaking populations? Do you really think the multi billion dollar international conglomerate, known as Samsung, is incapable of producing a decent translation on the TITLE of their legally binding warranty? Seriously people...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are taking this whole subject wayyyy to personally. Relax bro.
It's ALL conjecture at this point, until proven otherwise. In the end, who really cares? Sure, if we can do it without voiding our warranty, that's great. If we can't.. we will void our warranties happily anyways. That is the true way of modders.

Breach said:
I think you are taking this whole subject wayyyy to personally. Relax bro.
It's ALL conjecture at this point, until proven otherwise. In the end, who really cares? Sure, if we can do it without voiding our warranty, that's great. If we can't.. we will void our warranties happily anyways. That is the true way of modders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At some point you have to walk away and hope the horse at least has the common sense not to wonder off the edge of a cliff.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

RavenY2K3 said:
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which really brings us back to the legality of the situation. In many countries (including most of Europe and Australia) the statutory warranty put in place by legislation cannot be denied. The statutory warranty doesn't recognise something like rooting or custom ROMs as a valid reason do deny service, unless the device failure was caused by that action. So from a legal standpoint they cannot deny warranty service based on this, regardless of what they say or put in their own warranty agreement. They really aren't allowed to pick arbitrary reasons to deny service.
On the other hand - try and get it. If Samsung refuse to repair your device under warranty, you would probably have to take them to court to compel them to repair it, and I just don't see anyone trying that. Interestingly enough, whether it would be a valid clause or not, I can't see anything in Samsung's warranty agreement that says modifying the device voids the warranty. Only the standard out that damage *caused by* tampering with the device isn't covered........

cgi said:
Considering what Samsung did lately, the (for the customer) worst possible explanation is probably true.
What I read here, the phone is rootable and will boot without ever showing the knox flag. Maybe knox apps will not work anymore, but it stands to reason, that a sufficiently powerful enemy could likely modify the OS in a way to emulate the knox flag. To get around this, some kind of trusted cryptographic store would be needed, that only releases keys if the firmware checks out clean. However, if you have that, then you wouldn't need that efused flag in the first place. (Correct me please, if I am wrong here.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KNOX stuff still works even if the flag is 0x1.
---------------------
I personally see it as 0x0, your data is secure, 0x1, data is secured with knox, but the system has been compromised and no way to guarantee it is truly secure.

Bruce lee roy said:
At some point you have to turn your back and hope the horse at least has the common sense not play near the edge of a cliff.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One horse's cliff may be another horse's hurdle.
So what you are saying is that if you knew rooting your Note 3 would void your warranty, you wouldn't root it?
If I can preserve my warranty and still get root, I will.. otherwise, screw the warranty. That's why I am here.
---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------
It's funny when I say one thing, Bruce calls it double talk...
Breach said:
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but when someone says the same thing in a different way..
designgears said:
I personally see it as 0x0, your data is secure, 0x1, data is secured with knox, but the system has been compromised and no way to guarantee it is truly secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bruce agrees by 'Thanking' the guy.

Seriously. Getting Knoxed should be a meme
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app

Ever owned an Xbox? PS3? Or maybe an old VCR? Television? Microwave? Fridge?
Seen the sticker on the inside? The one that says "If this seal is broken, warranty is void"?
Exact same thing.

Seraphim401 said:
Seriously. Getting Knoxed should be a meme
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good one!

Truth about Samsung Knox.

I heard good informtaions about Knox.
I live in South Korea so all informations may not for your Samsung.(But i believe samsung do not treat different by region...)
All informations are heard from Samsung Electronics Service Center Engineer
1.Restore KNOX Warranty Void Stat is possible. Samsung Electronics Service Center in Korea have KNOX Warranty Void reset tools. but only a few have.[In Korea, there are over 100 service centers.]
2. If you do Kies Emergency Firmware Recovery, KNOX Warranty Void state can change to 0x1.[Not all, but a guy using Galaxy S4 LTE-A had this situation. so he change Mainboard]
Samsung knows it, so they don't care about KNOX Warranty Void state when you have software problem or hardware problem. But they care Flash Counts.
I think service role is different by regions... In Korea law, phones comes with a full 1 year warranty.{Except boke by users}.
for cost repair service, Engineers should proof that phone was broke by User. so if they can't check[Like bootloader vaporize] or this situations can be appear naturally, They provide free service in 1 year.
[Except when engineers detect Custom Binary State is not official or rooting, Custom Roms]
Like He used strange custom roms so the wifi chips break. but he erase Custom Binary Count and update movinand firmware by Odin, Everything reset. So he can get free service.
So, do not care about KNOX. Just enjoy custom firmware.(Except Someone need KNOX)

I today emailed to Turkish service.. So waiting for response. I will tell soon.

Emergency firmware recovery is when my knox was tripped. ..
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

what about the warranty bit in samsung note 3 n900 exynos ? same or not ? thanks

semeru said:
what about the warranty bit in samsung note 3 n900 exynos ? same or not ? thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it will be same in SM-N900. Treat different by region, device is kind of crazy ㅡ_ㅡ;;;;;;;

k939699 said:
I think it will be same in SM-N900. Treat different by region, device is kind of crazy ㅡ_ㅡ;;;;;;;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I will try to ask samsung service center in my country later :thumbup:
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

k939699 said:
I heard good informtaions about Knox.
I live in South Korea so all informations may not for your Samsung.(But i believe samsung do not treat different by region...)
All informations are heard from Samsung Electronics Service Center Engineer
1.Knox warranty restore is possible with special tools. but only a few Service Center have tools.
2. If you do Kies Emergency Firmware Recovery, with quite many probability, KNOX can be 0x1
because of this, Samsung do not care about Knox warranty.(It means KNOX can't effect at your 1 year device warranty)
So, do not care about KNOX. Just enjoy custom firmware.(Except Someone need KNOX)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just have a big grin in my face :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Thats why i know nobody who sent his phone in with 0x1, and didnt get a free repair. but i know a lot people who did (i know one person who failed at that point, but his binary status was custom and knox 0x1 tho)

Have people read the blog on the samsungknox-website?
From the post "About rooting Samsung KNOX-enabled devices and the KNOX warranty void bit"
"Submitted by Peng Ning (VP, Enterprise Security Group) on Wed, 12/04/2013 - 12:40"
When it comes to rooting, there have been some questions regarding Samsung’s KNOX-enabled devices and if they can, or should, be rooted at all. From Samsung’s perspective, the short answer is yes, but it is important to take into account the end user’s situation since device rooting should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis due to conflicting requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indicating that individual might want and should be able to root, but the enterprises should not have to deal. Right?
KNOX-enabled devices allow a customized OS kernel to boot which allows individuals to run customized Android systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the “KNOX Warranty Void” bit (or simply KNOX bit) is used to detect if a non-KNOX kernel has been loaded on the device. [...] If a non-KNOX boot loader or kernel has been put on the device, KNOX can no longer guarantee the security of the KNOX Container. [...] There are two possible scenarios: first, a new KNOX Container can no longer be created on such a device; and second, the data encrypted and stored in an existing KNOX Container can no longer be retrieved. Everything else should work just as before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another post have information about CF-AutoRoot, and a link to instruction.
Cant post links yet, but googleing their posts title will get you there.
I might be daft, but it looks official.

Have we all thought about this:
"KNOX Warranty" means that KNOX can warrant the system is secure. "
instead of "device hardware warranty".
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
There is the link for those that actually want to read it
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root
Here is CF root link as well saying this is safest way to root LOL

Just emailed samsungknox and asked about warranty void, got this reply:
Thank you for your inquiry. What I can confirm is that once the KNOX fuse is blown, the KNOX warranty is void and users will no longer be able to use KNOX on their device. In addition, resetting the 0x1 flag on the device will not be possible.
I believe device warranty is handled separate from the "KNOX warranty" - I will look into this issue and provide you some clarification regarding this matter.
Best regards
Steve
Samsung KNOX Team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to say, I kinda like the whole "I believe device warranty is handled separate from the "KNOX warranty"" bit. Will update when he gets back to me.

What Samsung region team was that reply from?

It does not state which region team, just says Samsung KNOX Team. But I did put Sweden as my country of residency in their contact form.

Here's my 2 pence on the matter:
If an official Samsung tool (emergency recovery) can flick KNOX into 0x1, then Samsung can't say anything. They can't prove *how* you tripped it.
If the guys at Samsung Knox are saying it's nothing to do with the years warranty, then I imagine Samsung allow the repair centres to pass customers off (if they wish) and claim that the warranty is invalid. If the s**t hit the fan, Samsung could just claim the centre was misinformed. Let's face it, who can be bothered to take on the might of such a large corporation?
The point of KNOX is to make enterprise security viable for android devices. If you're part of an enterprise, then as a system admin you can check to see if KNOX is invalid, thus rendering the phone potentially insecure if it has been triggered. AFAIK, that's really its only intention, it's NOT as a warranty tool.
I might be wrong, but usually logic dictates what's right in these situations. Thoughts?

jonboyuk said:
Here's my 2 pence on the matter:
If an official Samsung tool (emergency recovery) can flick KNOX into 0x1, then Samsung can't say anything. They can't prove *how* you tripped it.
If the guys at Samsung Knox are saying it's nothing to do with the years warranty, then I imagine Samsung allow the repair centres to pass customers off (if they wish) and claim that the warranty is invalid. If the s**t hit the fan, Samsung could just claim the centre was misinformed. Let's face it, who can be bothered to take on the might of such a large corporation?
The point of KNOX is to make enterprise security viable for android devices. If you're part of an enterprise, then as a system admin you can check to see if KNOX is invalid, thus rendering the phone potentially insecure if it has been triggered. AFAIK, that's really its only intention, it's NOT as a warranty tool.
I might be wrong, but usually logic dictates what's right in these situations. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly right. I made the point earlier that there have been reports of tripped Knox flags on non-rooted, totally stock devices with stock recoveries, and as such, there's no way that Samsung could legally refuse to honor warranty on that basis alone, because it's obvious that what we know trips it is not limited to the things most of us are dealing with, such as custom recovery or kernel, etc.
As long as the issue is limited to the ability to use Knox, and no other features are restricted, I don't think there's anything to be concerned about. I first encountered this with the S4 myself, and I sold it without a Knox bootloader. Unfortunately, I bought the Note 3 with a Knox bootloader, so there was no way to avoid it.
That said, I'm not about to obsess over the stupid flag, because I'll probably keep the device for a year tops, and then move on to something else. Most of us will, I assume.

From the looks of it, it seems like Knox is more of a way to determine whether your device is "secured" with Knox rather than determining whether Samsung will allow you to use your warranty. This is very good news and what I was guessing from the beginning. I may go ahead and flash now and if something wrong happens, just send my phone in for replacement and pray that I am right. Hopefully someone who has 0x1 will break their device and send it in for a repair so we can be sure.

Some people have sent theirs back with 0x1 and had repairs done, other have not been so fortunate. A user here in the UK was told by Samsung (and had his note 3 sent back immediately) that they would not undertake any repair via warranty or if he paid the cost himself. --- currently a lot of conflicting reports, and by the looks of it, it's based on individual criteria as to whether it gets fixed or not. (Unless you throw the EU Directive at them)
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

radicalisto said:
Some people have sent theirs back with 0x1 and had repairs done, other have not been so fortunate. A user here in the UK was told by Samsung (and had his note 3 sent back immediately) that they would not undertake any repair via warranty or if he paid the cost himself. --- currently a lot of conflicting reports, and by the looks of it, it's based on individual criteria as to whether it gets fixed or not. (Unless you throw the EU Directive at them)
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's what will be the standard experience for most lazy service areas, like in my area. Central America has a long tradition of allowing vendors to avoid warranty service. Buy something, and the common thing is that most retailers only honor a 90 day warranty on most items, regardless of how long the factory warranty actually is. Rules only apply when and where they can be enforced.

Anyone to open new topic that organises volunteers to contact each countries samsung services and learn the standart procedures about knoxing and warranty.
Also maybe in the end (for sure there will be conflict with the countries) we can send report to samsung to clear this knoxing issue if effects to warannty.

After reading this i might just take the hit, install custom recovery and rom and forget about knox.

[KNOX] Searching for users with root, active SELinux and a not tripped Knox

Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will. Other got it as well.
That means they already have some form of control and disregard your configuration. What can they do more?
With an SELinux they can control your device as they wish if they configure it to hide processes that run, as of today, unknown code.
I'm an "BOFH Unix kick ass consultant" by trade. I know how nicely you can do this. "Living in a box". Oh yes.
This is about our future, the right for privacy and the right to do what we want with out own private property!
The extreme measures taken against just obtaining root are disproportionately harsh. If they succeed, others will follow.
We might end up with iNdroid in a few years. I want to prevent that. But we need more knowledge. They destroy evidence if you trip Knox.
Rooting is not illegal, but the active action of destroying someones property with indent is, whatever cause, warranty claims or not.
There will be consequences. But we need more information, and you who have a Note 3, just as me, can help. The key can be your phone.
Knox is not "just a flag". It have attached code. It sabotages your system both software and hardware. Scrambled software. Wifi permanently
damaged, to name a few. I know, from my S4, and have it verified from source. But that code is run once and then gone. Are there more E-fuses?
Dumping hardware has made at least one device totally bricked. Not even the Power button worked. It was stone-dead.
Also:
If someone has a way of obtaining it without tripping Knox please contact me. I'm willing to take the risk of tripping Knox since this is more important then
some warranty.
I've been working in this for two months now and the more I learn the more I start to question if this isn't a bad movie with Kevin Costner...
No opt-out. Enforcement of this "Enterprise" solution. On your private phone? Think! The money this must cost? You want a return of investment!
Rooted phones cost that much? I don't buy that. You have an unique certificate that binds YOU to your phone. You and your phone are bound as one.
What if 3rd-party malicious code get hands of that? Viruses exist, even on Play. But your Antivirus can't run because it can't access the parts it must have
higher right to read check your programs. I rather run a firewall and deny permissions of programs that want way too much.
A "file manager" doesn't need to read your contacts. A game doesn't need to use your camera. But you can't prevent that.
Knox prevents that. Because you can place a document in a container... I rather use my freeware AES-program that encrypt documents on the fly.
Until we know more the device should be considered as not safe. Why is Samsung stonewalling the question so many have asked?
"What is the extent of the damage made?". I think we have the right to now that, don't you? Many has tried. "Heavy damage" is so far the best we got.
So please, if you still have root and not a crippled device, please contact me. Your help is the only way I see is possible right now.
All the best,
Abs (Yes, I need to update my tag, since I have so much new)

Hi. I've root, not tripped knox and with selinux set to enforcing.
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 mediante Tapatalk

Absolon said:
Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
...
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.

xclub_101 said:
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It got pushed about the moment I turned on my phone the first time. So as I said. I missed the opportunity
But thank those who instead of making sarcastic comments, already sent a message and offered help instead. :good:
I'm sure that the large group who got their phones destroyed really value you and your opinion, Xblub
But be careful so you don't trip it. You would not believe how easy that is!
Would be sad if you also got your phone devastated by the unkindly spirits at Samsung.
Let's hope we find a solution before that happens, right?
And please, if more want to help out please mess me, there are so many who got their phones destroyed and Samsung will not stop itself.
It will only be worse. But you can help stop this while we still have a change.
Next phones will have Knox chipped and then even Xblub will be sad
/Abs
Edit: Of course I meant Xclub.
As noted, easy to make a mistake. Like wanting Xclub to write "ls" when I really meant he should run
#!/bin/bash
//usr/bin/tail -n +2 $0 | g++ -o main -x c++ - && ./main && rm main && exit
main(_){_^448&&main(-~_);putchar(--_%64?32|-~7[__TIME__-_/8%8][">'txiZ^(~z?"-48]>>";;;====~$::199"[_*2&8|_/64]/(_&2?1:8)%8&1:10);} (Please don't run it!)

Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.

radicalisto said:
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie

Absolon said:
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can tell the difference once Knox is tripped. The only obvious thing that sticks out is you have more RAM/HDD available and the phone feels slightly faster. As for Play and Apps not working, I am yet to see any issues (only play issues I have ever had have been No connection, when there clearly is one. After a few refreshes it loads up. Now bear in mind, My connection isn't weak, I've been on the internet via the browser or on an app when I have switched to Play and experienced this) - Not to mention a stupid notification yapping at us telling us we are wrong to use something on a phone we legally own.
Absolon said:
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww I dread to even think what Samsung will enforce on us next time. There should be an option when you purchase the phone, if you're gonna use it for corporate use, then have KNOX installed via a code they print out. - But to us the everyday user. All it's doing is
*Taking up space on OUR phones
*Running cheekily in the BG
*As you stated, banning access to certain parts of the phone, which IF exploited, our AV's etc cannot reach.
To say we (well most of us) live in a free world, when it comes to us being consumers... they like to shaft us several times over.

Absolon said:
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.

lispnik said:
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all have the same configurations and not all have the same level of knowledge. But that is not a problem.
As I said. I don't want into your phone, I want you to collect info. So I gladly take any help I can get. Send me a private message.
Because I need as many as possible to verify things. Don't be shy! I don't bite. That hard

Destruction of data INSIDE the knox container after gaining root (which is a vulnerability in itself) is not data manipulation of any sort.
Tripping the counter will just void your warranty (as you would expect anyway!) and disable the knox container completely - it will NOT cause any other issue whatsoever to your device.
The System Security Policy service resets with a factory reset (so you can now go to the security tab and disable auto update).
Security Policy blocks known vulnerabilities that can give access to unauthorised root permissions and potential malware attacks.
Knox as a container can be opted out by uninstalling the knox application.
Knox as a counter is an integrated security measure and in no way should you ever be able to turn it off.
Security Policy is an active security system and you should not have the option to turn it off - you can prevent updates to the policy however.
Tripping the counter will not cause any hardware/software damage (!! An E-FUSE triggering is not damage, it's doing the job it is designed to do in case of compromising the system !!) - it will prevent you from using the knox container which is no longer safe after root and prevent you from getting warranty because you void it by rooting since the middle ages anyway - WiFi issues, dead devices and whatnot are not related in any way as most N3 users here are already using the device with knox tripped.
If you want root privileges you automatically lose your warranty and access to knox, nothing more nothing less.
PS: Update 16 blocked kingoapproot and vroot (which are technically malware), not root de la vega, the new bootloader blocked root de la vega because it's an exploit to gain root.

Absolon said:
...
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the first line falls close to what a conspiracy theorist would say the second one is an interesting point where more attention would be useful.
It can be argued that in the context of EU law the HARDWARE warranty is different than the SOFTWARE warranty, and that a manufacturer can not evade providing the first.
The thing is - to the best of my knowledge Samsung has never (so far) denied HARDWARE warranty based on knox flag status - so in that regard you might have a starting point in case you want to set some precedent - and I would LOVE such a precedent to be set (in a way that protects the consumer)!
Other than that all the stuff on how knox is used by Samsung to spy on you and follow your every move is really not helping anybody's cause (except maybe Samsung's).
My final point on this matter is that people with a LOT more technical knowledge on the subject than Absolon here (people like Chainfire or AndreiLux and plenty other) have commented on this, so people should really learn more about the subject before starting the wrong crusade born out of conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong - I WANT my consumer freedom, but I would also like that when legal precedents are set on the subject to have them set the right way, for the right reasons and with the right evidence (which will not be destroyed in court by Samsung lawyers in a day or less).

I'm following a good advice and removing any further comments.
I really want to work in a constructive manner and I do not with to petty fight. So please.
If anyone else want to help explore, please message me. We are on different levels of knowledge but that is all what XDA is about. To learn and to help!
All the best,
Abs

If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty

EdisDee said:
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, there are different views. Skander has one experience and that can be for one version.
For the I9505 the Knox did cause damage to the hardware and I did collect reports of findings and the majority was Wifi,
If this is the same for Note 3 I don't know. I write that I know, and what I think. We have free speech and I can have my thoughts and so can others.
It's rudeness and bluntness that should be avoided and I know that irony sometimes doesn't do as well on paper as in real life, but believe me, irony is the only thing that keeps me alive now days ;P

So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?

Edbert said:
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!

Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.

Skander1998 said:
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting as does damage your phone software but not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------
MxFadzil92 said:
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting does damage your phone software changing of roms baseband kernel etc but still baseband all those stuff are still needed by the original manufacturer release not by cyanogemod for example new baseband are aquired by new tw rom new builds except for kernels which are aquired by githubs made by respective developers... But not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment. Rooting are the only way for us to try a new android platform build release by google... To wait for manufacturer release maaan could be months down the road. Sigh.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

MxFadzil92 said:
.too long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do not stop you from rooting, they just re-affirm the million year old knowledge that rooting voids your warranty!
Bricking smartphones from rooting is very common, so does flashing kernels and whatnot, flashing kernels can actually allow someone to cause actual hardware damage to antennas, CPU's and GPU's and even kill the screen (in the note 2 for example, flashing an s3 recovery will burn the digitizer permanently)
Rooting also invalidates Knox's security completely, and any data there should be protected so they make it self destruct (the container) when rooted and the flag is there so after unrooting (and potentially having a still infected system) no one can activate a container anymore on the Smartphone.
This has side effects like the inability to root without detection, but the regular users you are talking about will not root their devices and so is 90+% of the users.
Knox is not an issue and nothing new, flashing anything from 2010 on any device voids your warranty, now it voids it with a permanent marker so you can't fool them and technically illegally get a repair from a broken warranty.
You break warranty terms even one of them, you don't get it.

xclub_101 said:
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with a company that does fair play you don't have to worry that they push something you don't want on your phone.
And they do. Don't be too sure that just because you turned your settings off that it protects you, because if you read through posts you will see that people got updates pushed, disregarding whatever setting you had. And that is certainly not fair play
But to answer your question. First. Just dropping names here and there doesn't do it. To ride on someones "fame" to gain more authority and merit to your post is bad rhetoric.
You should be able to do that on your own.
Yes, there are many who are way better then me, but the nice thing is that when you asked them, they know they once been there themselves and don't feel the need to project personal problems and anger on some random person they never met.
Just that we passed the 100 post mark and XDA automatically put a "senoir" next to the name means nothing more then we are good at bull****ting online,
Doesn't tell if you are 1337 or a n00b. Even if you post 10000 post doesn't mean that you have any deeper understanding.
But new users don't know that, and treating others without respect scares them away. Makes them afraid to ask. Who wants a snotty answer back on their first post?
So please. Make this a constructive place. If you are angry I recommend Reddit/Imgur/Flashback. There you can project whatever you want or need.
I don't know how to code a single line in Java!
But I'm awesome in C64 Basic!! And I managed to write "Hello World" in BF!
And I know several Asm's and I coded mostly in C (and C++ when it was still readable) and did my VHDL/Erlang-hell period (and I tested like 20++ other languages, some enforced during my master but some just for fun. I can write "Hello World!" in Sun's start eeprom!) but that was looong time ago. So I'm "rusty". Old. There are so many nifty new things. But then. Mostly I use something invented 200 years ago - A stethoscope. But there is a new COOL one! BT! With noise reduction and spectrum analysis! No more things that hurt in my ears! For the little sum of 1500 € it's yours!..... Bleh.
But I'm not ashamed of that! I can learn if I want. XDA is a great place for that. Even have their own Android University!
I'm fairly good with Unix. Even made money of it. For over 8 years. And the good with that is that some things we still use today haven't changed since 1973!
And I worked some with hardware but I need a new JTAG. Know a good one? So many to choose and I don't know the quality or what is needed?
Do the board even have pins or do you have to weld them? I hate welding!
You say conspiracy. I say concern and worry.
Why are people starting to get worried?
It's not as much as conspiracy then more why they are behaving like they do?
The fact is simple - the unknown
The word SELinux has come to more people now since it's mandatory in 4.3. The "moblie magazines", M3, Android** talks about the "news in 4.3".
But what is SELInux?
So people turn to the trusty Wikipedia for answers: Wikipedia - SELinux
And the first lines they see are
Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux) is a Linux kernel security module that provides the mechanism for supporting access control security
policies, including United States Department of Defense-style mandatory access controls (MAC).
SELinux is a set of kernel modifications and user-space tools that can be added to various Linux distributions. Its architecture strives to
separate enforcement of security decisions from the security policy itself and streamlines the volume of software charged with security
policy enforcement.[1][2]
The key concepts underlying SELinux can be traced to several earlier projects by the United States National Security Agency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what people see!!
I can bet some even read "police" and not "policies". The see all this and that SCARES THEM.
With the recent scandals in mind of NSA hacking everything including the Germans Chancellors phone, an alley??
And here, the American spy-outpost towards Sovjet/Russia since 1947. We have also a 3-letter agency. And not many weeks ago there where front pages that they shared the databases with each other. So is that so hard to understand?
So to get from the unknowns they start to look
So you turn to Samsung for answers, And they treat you like cattle. And they stonewall you? No transparency whatsoever.
They reminds me of Nokia when they also went into "grandiose mode" and also through they could do whatever they please because of their total dominance. But they forgot one thing. The consumers got more and more unhappy. And they was their sole income. And when get got that in their heads it was too late. What are they now? Decimated to nothing. Trying desperately with a yet another attempt by Microsoft that is deemed to fail. How many times have Microsoft tried to get in on the hand-held market? I lost count.
And then they start to Google. XDA turns up like the first thing. Find their phone and see "Knox?"
(SELinux==NSA) --> Enterprise solution? On my private phone? Encryption? Damage? Container? What do I need THAT for?
"I don't want THAT on my phone! NSA. Enterprise. Container? Where is the opt out? There are none? I was NOT informed of this!"
That is what I find that worrying and I share that with many others.
Yes, some say it's just a flag. Not on S4. Look how many got problem with Wifi. I got them as well. And I knew when I broke my Knox.
Since SS goes all this trouble to hinder you to gain root access that they even had an E-fuse that does cause hardware damage.
To prevent "Triangle Away"? As your friend if he believes it's because of that?
I don't have to use SELinux to run code past your nose, root or not, but SELinux does it so much easier, since you can define it do hide processes from normal users and it has the possibility to run 3rd-party code. You know that, right?
Since we don't know what is run on the phone you can't be sure it's not something with some intent? So why not investigate it? What is going on in the phone?
Aren't you curious? I am. I would love to be able to root? Can I after #16 on MJ7?
But sure ask them, please. Give it a try
Ask them for example why Wifi stopped working after Knox was tripped on your S4?
Ask them what the extent of the damage they have done?
Ask them where this "Efuse data" is, on what address-range so you can avoid it? Data for a flag? Wasn't that just burned in?
Ask them why you can't update with Kies anymore? Wasn't that just a flag?
Ask them anything.
And I'm sure you will get a message back (if you get any) from "Steve". The poor overworked guy that serves the whole world and he always seems to write the same? We compared. He sits and write the same text over and over? "Sorry, we can't divulge this information at the moment".
Poor Steve!
Come back to the mother-continent! I promise, we've stopped flogging, guillotine, quartering and we changed the stake for a steak!
We have much more fun! 6 weeks of full paid vacation. Here in Sweden we have Polar bears! While we sit in our igloos and make watches.
And we have better beer as well!
If you see turning of a setting as a merit I think you should add that to your CV (and I was not alone in this).
I did as 99% of all do. Unpack the phone. Skip the instruction. Put in the sim and the sd-card and then turn it on.
BAM! I don't even think I had the time to enter my Gmail?
But you didn't. Great!
Here your knowledge would be useful! Help your fellow XDA members. In the spirit of XDA!
Can you dump the phone? Not block-wise but by reading the whole contact of the eeproms?
Can you compare your fstab and it sizes? Do they correspond to the space you have? If you dump them and compare it to the first, Do the differ much is size (a bit is natural)?
Can you use parted and list the partitions? Are all mounted? What rights do they have? Can you read them all?
The security policies in /system. What do they contain? See anything strange?
Can you compare what processes you see as a user and root?
Can you list the rules loaded in the kernel? MAC? (I think you need to compile the commands for it or get it from some Arm dist, they are not included)
Strace some processes that you don't recognize?
The kcryptd? What do they work against?
What files are open and locked? What does the stat say?
See kvm? Or are you in a kvm?
Here you can actually ACT and DO something constructive and concrete or is this just, as from my compressor, high pressured air comming from your side?
Time will tell I guess.
For the others that have messaged me: A BIG BIG THANK YOU!
And no, I don't have enough volunteers, if you do have this configuration, mess me. Or test sometime from test list. The dumping should be used by experienced users but you can do a lot on that list and you can zip and sent me some files. Rules, Pipe out the process lists.
I don't care how much you can or can't. Ask away! We started at the beginning somewhere and I will do my best, ask around, and TOGETHER, we might get some result, because we want to DO something and maybe we CAN help right? Either we find something or we don't. If we are sure and can say "The system seems clean". That would calm a LOT people down. Including me.
/Abs
And with this I won't go into more arguments about this. It's enough. I saw this as an excellent solution to see and check. Not to argue.
I already lost too much time on bla bla bla. I want to spend the time I have on things that matter. My friends that have their phones destroyed.
Use the list or make another! All seem to have their own experiences/views. Samsung must love this division.
Just DO something! Like in all research: Stipulate, challenge, prove, disprove, confirm, dismiss. Start over.
If you need to vent, you can PM me as well, Xblub.

Knox to be intergrated into Android L.....

http://www.sammobile.com/2014/06/25...egrate-knox-into-androids-next-major-release/
Looks like Google has taken a liking to Sammys Knox and are now going to be integrating part of Knox into Android L.
All my hardwork avoiding a Knox bootloader and its shyte and google go plug it directly into their upcoming release :crying:

As long as it does not void warranty.. i don't see a problem with it, it's actually a good thing for business users.
Lets see how the warranty will be though.

-Ric- said:
As long as it does not void warranty.. i don't see a problem with it, it's actually a good thing for business users.
Lets see how the warranty will be though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I expect more voided warrantees and impossible firmware downgrades. How is this a way forward though? Most of us dont use our android phones for business but more for multimedia entertainment, social networking with the occasional phone call or two.
It would be nice if we are given the option of whether we want Knox or not. I'd opt for not.
If I want a secure enterprise handset I'll get the Z30.

Looks like knox is going to be like a plague to all android phones in the future, just have to hope someone will eventually crack it.

I doubt they will crack it, currently as it stands no one has yet to get that right. And if Google is endorsing Knox they must have evaluated it and if they endorsing Knox it must have passed their security tests Sad but true I'm afraid

On the plus side. The more phones knox is on the more attention it will receive from developers who concentrate on other brands, eg. Sony & HTC models.

mrm1 said:
On the plus side. The more phones knox is on the more attention it will receive from developers who concentrate on other brands, eg. Sony & HTC models.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You me hope kind sir, however little hope it is but hope none the less

That's not the Knox bootloader, I think, that's a feature for divide apps data for work and apps data for private live.

Actually, I think that Google got a friendly advice to incorporate KNOX into all android devices.
It definitely WILL make the life easier... for some companies.
At last, some companies ( Please see second paragraph, if you are interested which companies ) invested a lot of money to develop this application, didn't they?
Now they can be sure that their stuff is on any and all of the android phone, tablet and whatever else.
With this step, google took us back in time... directly to 1984.
Private life of the user, you said?

Long live Europe! Its not allowed to deny warranty because of knox counter
Me Gusta!

ale29-09 said:
That's not the Knox bootloader, I think, that's a feature for divide apps data for work and apps data for private live.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Knox apps wont work correctly if the bootloader isn't a Knox bootloader (I'm fully open to correction here so devs please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm not saying that all Android phones will run Samsungs bootloader but I'm sure their all going to lock down and have some form of Knox bootloader.

Its better to switch to iPhone if this happens

With this bull**** going on I hope more and more on cyanogenmod taking android from google