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Hello,
I wanted to ask is it legal to create WM6 ROMs for the HTC Wizard . Thnx in advance .
We are not CREATING ROMS, we are EDITING them to our needs and specifications.. for instance u dont like something that comes in the rom, or u want to add something to the rom (thus saving u space, for storage and Program) you just EDIt the rom.... by using the kitchens and packages.. hope i have answered your question
funkadesi said:
We are not CREATING ROMS, we are EDITING them to our needs and specifications.. for instance u dont like something that comes in the rom, or u want to add something to the rom (thus saving u space, for storage and Program) you just EDIt the rom.... by using the kitchens and packages.. hope i have answered your question
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Sorry but still my questions remains but a changed a bit now, IS EDITING ROMS TO OUR NEEDS ILLEGAL? Thnx to funkadesi.
i would say this with some certainty, but maybe a senior member can correct me:
to edit a ROM to your own specifications and put on your device for your own personal use is not illegal, as long as the method by which the original rom was obtained was not illegal.
to edit a ROM and redistribute it to others likely crosses a legal line.
Why Does It Matter???
I'm curious why it matters so much. Fact is, for the Wizard, we would not and never will have a true WM6...and frankly, I could care less if I have a cooked rom, especially since my rom is better than what I would get from Tmo...who also will not provide any updates. So if I am to be held to pay for a new device for hundreds of dollars to have a WM6 rom, or use one of XDA's talented chef/developer's rom's...well hands down, I will stick with xda. If that makes me illegal, screw it. I refuse to use the crappy stock Tmo WM5 rom that came on my device...it is slow and buggy and needed daily rebooting. The only time my phone gets a reboot now is when I have to do it for a program install or uninstall. My beloved Jaguar is so dependably stable...I will never go back to a stock rom!!
I honestly do not know the ethics/morality behind cooking a rom, and really don't care either!! All I know is that XDA has given more to the "Wizarding" community than M$, Tmo, AT&T or any of those other greedy bastards ever have or ever will. I sleep just fine at night despite my use of NTS's rom.
Tell me this...let's say you bought a designer suit, but it didn't quite fit right...would tailoring it to your needs be in some violation? You bought the suit, you need it to fit you, so you modify to do so.
I bought the MDA. Someone somewhere also bought a device with WM6...it got tailored to my needs. Not point by point the same thing as my suit example, but since M$ refuses to produce a WM6 for a my device, why should I be punished and forced to buy a different device when my Wizard works so well?? Why buy another suit to wear when you can simply get the one you have tailored to fit you?
xsbeats said:
i would say this with some certainty, but maybe a senior member can correct me:
to edit a ROM to your own specifications and put on your device for your own personal use is not illegal, as long as the method by which the original rom was obtained was not illegal.
to edit a ROM and redistribute it to others likely crosses a legal line.
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I didn't understand that, u mean that if i edit a ROM and redistribute it for free on my site, would it be illegal? Sorry for my lack of understanding. Thnx to xsbeats too .
xda2_haseeb said:
I didn't understand that, u mean that if i edit a ROM and redistribute it for free on my site, would it be illegal? Sorry for my lack of understanding. Thnx to xsbeats too .
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Click to collapse
See, now more info is coming out from you. You are not wondering if it is illegal...you are wondering if posting a cooked rom on YOUR WEBSITE illegal. That would be something for the mods to answer...
I do not know the legality behind it, but XDA developers share their rom's here. Now I think if you tried to SELL a cooked rom, you could definately end up in some legal issues.
basically it doesn't really matter if it's illegal or not, it's nothing that will ever come back to you...
picture this...a cop jumps out of his car and is on fire, and you pee on him to put the fire out...yeah, you pee'd on a cop, but you also saved his life. lol, that probably proved nothing, but i found it kind of funny. basically it may be illegal it may not be, but nothing will ever come of it, so i wouldn't even ponder on it too much
All I'd say is that you make sure the rom you post is your work...because if you post another cook's rom without their permission or without giving them the credit, you will most probably have a pissed off XDA developer on your ass...and I'd think that could be worse than any BS legal threats that M$ will probably never do!!!
xda2_haseeb said:
I didn't understand that, u mean that if i edit a ROM and redistribute it for free on my site, would it be illegal? Sorry for my lack of understanding. Thnx to xsbeats too .
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XDA-Dev used to store the roms right here on this website. Due to pressure from cell companies (as I understand it), Microsoft used legal threats to force xda-dev to remove all the roms (that was almost a year ago, and many felt that would kill this site). Thats why you mostly have to deal with getting them via rapidshare or whatever.
The Eula says WM is not to be modified or redistibuted.
I do know that some people from htc, Microsoft and AT&T watch this site and actually love the work that goes on here (Others definetly don't feel the same).
Just my thoughts...
mfrazzz said:
I do know that some people from htc, Microsoft and AT&T watch this site and actually love the work that goes on here
Code:
That is because XDA kicks ass!
(Others definetly don't feel the same)
Code:
Well that would probably be similar to having penis envy...
they know XDA rocks and that they don't match up!
.
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^^^Well at least that is my view on the subject!^^^
Here's the bottom line, when you get down to it.
You kill a resource like this, a lot of Wizard owners will buy a Nokia.
Then Microsoft and HTC never sell that person another device/OS on a mobile platform.
That's kind of a problem for them. Unlike the desktop PC where you pretty much have to run Windows for a lot of purposes, on the mobile side there is no particular need to use a HTC device or Windows Mobile - there ARE other, competing alternatives that in fact have majority market share.
The carriers "efforts" in this regard are beyond lame and border on stupid. The instability in most of the stock ROMs are nutty bad and there is no "retail" upgrade option available (that is, unlike my home PC, for which I CAN go buy Vista, the option doesn't exist for my HTC Wizard)
Here's an ineresting article that has a Microsoftie recommending using some rom tools to pull out products like rdp for various reasons
msmobiles article
Money Quote:
MSMobiles said:
Scott Yost from Windows Mobile division of Microsoft USA, who specializes there in code signing, security policies, revocation and certificates, admits:
There are unsupported tools externally available that are able to copy the modules out of ROM and then try to reconstruct the original file. If you still need to extract those bytes, you can probably find one of those tools.
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Thnx everybosy for there replies my question is now answered, i have come to the point that:
""I can edit and keep a ROM on my own site""
Do correct if mistaken.
Thnx to all.
1. GPL-Violation
i think that movikun is right. I do not have rights to give my binary to anyone before I would post my sources.
and I am not sure if I have rights to determine the time I post my sources too.
see movikun's reply here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6047882&postcount=2
so I decide to stop posting anything temporarily. thank you movikun, you teach me a lesson.
there are many devices running a .29 kernel now, they are all formal/official distributions but their sources have not open yet.
and after HTC release their .29 binary for 32A and HERO, if they don't release the sources immediately and you think it violate the GPL, please kick their ass. you will get what you want from there.
2. what I had done.
I did little things as someone said. that's TRUE. the most time I spent, were just looking into the sources, and try to understand everything. if one get enough understandings, there are not many things to do.
we have a working kernel, proper device specified files and configurations, you can find them all in msm-kernel .29/.32 and htc-kernel .27. everyone could make same changes what I did, if he have proper skills.
I had not took a look at others works, it's unnecessary and it may have noise with other's tweaks. so it doesn't make sense that I must post my sources just because they had posted theirs.
in fact, in a programmer's view, I never think these works are much valuable.
3 why I don't release my sources.
a) I know we won't get any contribution except different binary version if I would posted my patches at current. these binaries just make things more complicated.
though you can't get my sources, but if you take a look at android/HAL sources on Google's repo and Qualcomm's site, you will find something valuable about problems we faced.
but no one except me works on that. I don't believe in some people who named everything they can name. I won't work with them, or let them get my works so easily, unless they would have made some real contribution for our community.
b) after months I had posted my kernel, yongzi posted his patch. but how many people care about his work? everyone just remember something like XXkernel. what are these XXkernels?
I don't like that. I am not someone like yongzi. it's a game for me: I want to see if I do not post my patches, could these people get things done by themselves? I have shown what could be done at least, now it's our heroes's turn. they won't have any excuse to make their great named kernel staying with old radio anymore.
I am not aiming at users and ROM devs, I am talking about someone made their brand on a kernel they mashed up. if they named it as XXkernels, they should provide something special, but not a normal kernel with others patches.
even Ubuntu won't name the kernel they used as "UbuntuKernel", though they did much more. but it happened in our community. yes GPL don't prevent that, but I don't want these named kernels to include my work.
c) when I had posted the kernel binary, GPS could not work in some ROM. some people just said that the bug is in the kernel, and they didn't have the kernel sources.
now, we all get GPS working by replacing a different libgps.so, with same kernel binary.
how can you expect me to work with these people? they even don't want to understand anything, just try to mash things up and name it. if it doesn't work, all faults belong to others. and if you ask them something they have known, they never response. yes, they obeyed the GPL with their "release".
you could think they are good. but personally, I won't encourage their behaviors. the only way I can choose, just refuse to share my sources. if I have other choices, I won't be so disagreeable.
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the .32 kernel is deleted temporary.
First off, let me commend you for coming clean, and at least trying to explain yourself, and not just getting angry and slurring those criticising. Thank you.
However, you seriously misunderstand the GPL. It is NOT up to you to decide if the license applies to you or not, dependent on how many changes you made. Normally i would just link to the license and scream "rtfl!", but I do NOT want this to turn into a flamewar. However, before i begin let me be clear, i am ONLY talking about the linux kernel. The rest of android is licensed under MIT, and sense bit are propietary. And it's only the Linux kernel i'm concerned about. So, let's go:
- You get the source from google/htc/motorolla/someone else. It is licensed under to you under the GPL. Which means you must abide by it, or not use the code.
- You modify it for you personal needs. This is permitted, and encouraged. You do not need to distribute anything, since it's only for you personal use.
- You've decided you want to pass along the binaries to your friend, with your changes. AT THIS VERY MOMENT you MUST give him the source code, and this is NOT NEGOTIABLE. He has every right to get the source code, just as you did when you got the source code from google, and thats because you made changes to GPL code. GPL is viral and it was deisgined SPECIFICALLY to do JUST THAT.
Also, another error that you make, is that you think that you can make a non-gpl release. Such a thing doesn't exist. You cannot change the license of GPL code. Once code is GPL, it STAYS GPL.
And yes, HTC was VERY late on numerous occasions with it's sources. We know that. However, that's not an excuse. Do you kill people just because there are murders on the world? Of course not, because they're wrong. GPL-Violations is already informed and working on getting the 32A 1.2 sources, and if it comes to that, they'll work on that too. However, that does NOT give you the right to whithold your sources.
To summarize : either you don't release the sources to the kernel, admit you're breaking the GPL, stop distributing your 2.6.29 and 2.6.32, or you put up a tarball/github somewhere, and the community will gladly accept it. The choice is yours.
P.S. This has made me, and a couple of other close devs feel extremely distastefull. The Magic scene is loosing developers to the N1 extremely fast, and it's just sad that we have to fight each other to play by the rules.
#teamdouche
sanpei, we all know what its like to work for this community. You release something and people blame you for any little bug and also never give you credit.
Despite this, I really hope you decide to post your sources, it would great to have and there are lots of people who could do great work with it. The point of this community to work together and not withhold your work because you want to be the only one with it.
Honestly, I just want to ask where did you get the information needed to create the AMSS 6355 patch or where did you obtain that code?
bcrook said:
sanpei, we all know what its like to work for this community. You release something and people blame you for any little bug and also never give you credit.
Despite this, I really hope you decide to post your sources, it would great to have and there are lots of people who could do great work with it. The point of this community to work together and not withhold your work because you want to be the only one with it.
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Click to collapse
Just as an outsider who lurks but really does not post anything usefull. I find the majority of the posters are very thankful on this forum. The problem is, for every 15 thank you's the one flame will be heard more than all the gratitude.
I think you should just ignore the detractors and focus on the thankful people. Pissy people will always make a bigger fuss than a happy one, yet the happy ones are the ones you need to keep happy. The unhappy ones can go to hell.
movikun said:
First off, let me commend you for coming clean, and at least trying to explain yourself, and not just getting angry and slurring those criticising. Thank you.
However, you seriously misunderstand the GPL. It is NOT up to you to decide if the license applies to you or not, dependent on how many changes you made. Normally i would just link to the license and scream "rtfl!", but I do NOT want this to turn into a flamewar. However, before i begin let me be clear, i am ONLY talking about the linux kernel. The rest of android is licensed under MIT, and sense bit are propietary. And it's only the Linux kernel i'm concerned about. So, let's go:
- You get the source from google/htc/motorolla/someone else. It is licensed under to you under the GPL. Which means you must abide by it, or not use the code.
- You modify it for you personal needs. This is permitted, and encouraged. You do not need to distribute anything, since it's only for you personal use.
- You've decided you want to pass along the binaries to your friend, with your changes. AT THIS VERY MOMENT you MUST give him the source code, and this is NOT NEGOTIABLE. He has every right to get the source code, just as you did when you got the source code from google, and thats because you made changes to GPL code. GPL is viral and it was deisgined SPECIFICALLY to do JUST THAT.
Also, another error that you make, is that you think that you can make a non-gpl release. Such a thing doesn't exist. You cannot change the license of GPL code. Once code is GPL, it STAYS GPL.
And yes, HTC was VERY late on numerous occasions with it's sources. We know that. However, that's not an excuse. Do you kill people just because there are murders on the world? Of course not, because they're wrong. GPL-Violations is already informed and working on getting the 32A 1.2 sources, and if it comes to that, they'll work on that too. However, that does NOT give you the right to whithold your sources.
To summarize : either you don't release the sources to the kernel, admit you're breaking the GPL, stop distributing your 2.6.29 and 2.6.32, or you put up a tarball/github somewhere, and the community will gladly accept it. The choice is yours.
P.S. This has made me, and a couple of other close devs feel extremely distastefull. The Magic scene is loosing developers to the N1 extremely fast, and it's just sad that we have to fight each other to play by the rules.
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Click to collapse
I think you are right. thank you for this lesson
for discussions:
I think I have a workaround on this: if I claim a organization, and our members can get my binary, and this organization never distribute anything to the world out of it. then it will not violate the GPL.
wesgarner said:
Honestly, I just want to ask where did you get the information needed to create the AMSS 6355 patch or where did you obtain that code?
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you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you would think about how things work seriously.
sanpei said:
I think you are right. thank you for this lesson
for discussions:
I think I have a workaround on this: if I claim a organization, and our members can get my binary, and this organization never distribute anything to the world out of it. then it will not violate the GPL.
you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you would think about how things work seriously.
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Click to collapse
i have your binary and everyone on xda has it
we want the source for it and you refuse
you are a good coder im sure but you dont share the OSS spirit many of us do obviously - we just want everyone to share the code and give credit where credit is due
do you see people ripping off cyanogen for his kernel? they modify and give credit to cyanogen and this is the SPIRIT of the GPL (thanks for your work bcrook on cm kernel)
same with wes - thanks for all your work too wes - hopefully we can get NR kernel over from you soon - love your old radio version that was compiled
your above comment proves you just use FOSS and dont abide by the rules
dont release anything in the future if u dont have sources
thanks
edit: looking at your OP i dont believe you grasp OSS and the liscense
to release anything to the public can be done w/o source
the liscense states that if someone requests the source you must provide it (lots of request for your source)
HTC COMPLIES BECAUSE IF ASKED THEY WILL RELEASE
second to ahkmsk - i looked at your thread and honestly if you dont want to develop for a device you dont have then DONT
your roms are always half cooked and rarely updated / fixed - personally the only DAILY rom you released was your superD port (daily meaning i can use it on a daily basis and not be hampered by bugs or lost functionality)
maybe you should wait to own a device before you develop so you are motivated to release fully functioning roms and not half baked sense roms based on dumps
you guys are the queens of drama...
sanpei said:
I think you are right. thank you for this lesson
for discussions:
I think I have a workaround on this: if I claim a organization, and our members can get my binary, and this organization never distribute anything to the world out of it. then it will not violate the GPL.
you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you would think about how things work seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or as the beauty of the dev community, share
Of course I always give credit where credit is due - you wouldn't be disincluded
I have all of the code and have cleaned it up nicely only one bug left in it for audio - if you would like you could look at the commits and see if u see my (probable) typo
bcrook said:
sanpei, we all know what its like to work for this community. You release something and people blame you for any little bug and also never give you credit.
Despite this, I really hope you decide to post your sources, it would great to have and there are lots of people who could do great work with it. The point of this community to work together and not withhold your work because you want to be the only one with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said I won't release the sources forever. I just feel uncomfortable many people did things in such a way.
so if they have troubles, I don't want this trouble to be resolved by me.
and not to put too fine a point on it, I find that there not so many people who could do some serious work with the kernel, if they just wait for someone to provide the correct patches.
they should try to understand what they MUST understand. after this, we would believe that they could do something valuable, but not just name things already exists.
alan090 said:
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wesgarner said:
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my request is very simple:
create a real project which belongs to community only, do not call it with any uncommon name.
I don't think that cm-kernel, WGKernel, or sanpei kernel do really exist. all of these are just normal linux kernel, with some public patches and little changes.
we should not name the kernel binary we release to users too. because what we did just too trivial to mention if we compare these works with real kernel development. and some option tweaks are absolute nothing.
(you could name the ROM releases)
and we should promise that we will work in this project in the future, and we won't make a named kernel again, unless you rewrite more than 1/10 codes of the kernel and make it real different from a common kernel.
then, I will work with you guys together, you will find that I am not so idiotic as you may think now.
sanpei said:
you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you think about how things work seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh for god's sake, if you know the solution, why don't you just TELL us what to do?? Or better yet, produce a kernel patch? Stop playing this annoying "I know something you don't, tee-hee, figure it out yourself!" game of yours.
I don't have much against you personally and I didn't want to get involved in this at all, because I really didn't give that much to Android community myself in the first place (and it's not because I wouldn't want to), but this selfish attitude of yours is annoying the hell out of me really (to put it mildly). What good is it to know something and sit on it selfishly for months instead of sharing it so others can benefit from it? And why not in exchange let others help YOU figure out the things you seem to struggle with, whenever it is because you're busy or simply because you don't know the solution, which happens to any of us sometimes, even the brightest? Isn't that the whole point of joining a community in the first place?
If everyone in the Android community was following your example, there would most likely be no community at all by now. There would just be a bunch of people like Cyanogen or Wes posting about what great things have they done with their phones that they won't allow others to reuse. What a community feeliing...
If you don't want to release something, don't, that's fine by me, I don't care that much as others do about you following GPL or not (although I really should, it exists for a reason), but if you decide so, then please also stop boasting to others about all those awesome things you have and won't give them. It doesn't make you look wise, it just makes you look like a wiseass.
You're also saying you don't like that people are splicing ROMs together with bits and pieces of other ROMs, yet instead of setting an example on how to do it right all you do is give people your kernel binary (and I mean the .29 in your ROMs, not just the .32 you've shared here earlier today) instead of kernel source. What good is the kernel binary if people can't modify it and/or compile it themselves as they should? If someone wants to make a ROM for 32A new radio, they pretty much have to do exactly what you dislike - splice your kernel binary with some other ROM and hope for the best. The effect is that you've been deliberately slowing the 32A community's progress for months now, because of...of what, exactly? Fame? The feeling of uniqueness? The community is already weakening as the many are moving to N1, why the hell would you want to weaken it even more and intentionally by denying others access to what you have available? What's the point? Unless you really don't have the sources as some people are implying, but then, why don't simply confess and be done with it with style?
I really don't get this at all.
On a separate but related note, if devs in general don't like the hacks among us (such as myself ) cooking ROMs by taking bits and pieces from everyone and splicing them together, then please let us know. I don't want to post the little I have done if it will upset the majority of devs.
Unfortunately as Case just stated, I personally have felt the need to try (as lame as my efforts may seem to the far more knowledgeable devs) to put ROMs together for the 32a Magic community and myself even if they have some bugs. We just don't have any other option at this point if we want to go with the new radio.
The majority of posters seem to always give credit where it is deserved when taking from devs.
sanpei said:
my request is very simple:
create a real project which belongs to community only, do not call it with any uncommon name.
I don't think that cm-kernel, WGKernel, or sanpei kernel does really exist. all of these are just normal linux kernel, with some public patches and little changes.
we should not name the kernel binary we release to users too. because what we did just too trivial to mention if we compare these works with real kernel development.
(you could name the ROM releases)
and we should promise that we will work in this project in the future, and we won't make a named kernel again, except you rewrite more than 1/10 codes of kernel at least.
then, I will work with you guys together. you will find that I am not so idiotic as you think now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think your an idiot sanpei
I just think we all have a little ways to go here
If you are willing to work on a community kernel with WG im sure all the people involved in porting/rom building will be happy to make you proud of your work
sure people like bcrook and others would be happy to contribute as well
what we just want is you to work with us - not for us
i know i will be happy to work with a new kernel on porting
i will also look into rom cooking more and work with other members to release awesome roms based on 32a community kernel
we just want to work together right
Case_ said:
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giant_rider said:
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I have already said that I am NOT aiming at ROM devs. the ROM is full filled with your personal styles. that's why people love your ROM. and do you think the kernel works is more difficult or valuable than what you did? absolutely NO.
I am just talking about the kernel. every named kernels are nothing different essentially. they are all one thing and they all have same patches. would you copy Cyanogen's ROM, just install/remove some apps, and name it as yours?
and I don't feel I am wise, uniqueness or somewhat, I just want to struggle with these behaviors. so I refuse to share my work with any named kernel.
the only way to prevent them from getting my patches, just do not post the sources until they are really work together, at a common project as things should go.
Case_ said:
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and if all of you think what I did just slowing your progress, OK , I will QUIT. anyway, all of you will get HTC's kernel in next months.
and may I remind you, before I had posted the binary, most people had thought that it's impossible to let msm-kernel work with new radio. at least, they know it could work now. make your efforts, it's not so late.
btw, there are not any spiritual needs what I could get from these works, except the understandings on how these devices work. I have more important things in my life. I just did things on my way. that's all.
you are right on one thing. I shouldn't talk about all these bull-****. if I just had taken the binary from others who you don't know and they couldn't release their sources for some reasons, all of you will be satisfied.
so everybody here, I am just a LIAR . what you have got is STOLEN by me from somewhere. what I said above just my EXCUSEs. the fact is: I DO NOT have the sources
to me it's simple
your feelings could be understood
but once you release the binary to the public
you have to release the source code according to GPL
you may want to define the word 'public'
but you never want to redefine GPL license
that's it
alan090 said:
I don't think your an idiot sanpei
I just think we all have a little ways to go here
If you are willing to work on a community kernel with WG im sure all the people involved in porting/rom building will be happy to make you proud of your work
sure people like bcrook and others would be happy to contribute as well
what we just want is you to work with us - not for us
i know i will be happy to work with a new kernel on porting
i will also look into rom cooking more and work with other members to release awesome roms based on 32a community kernel
we just want to work together right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first, thank you for your kind words.
and I hope that other developers could make the patches soon, then I don't need to steal something from somewhere anymore.
you may not get the patches from me, because I am not sure if I can steal sources.
sanpei said:
my request is very simple:
create a real project which belongs to community only, do not call it with any uncommon name.
I don't think that cm-kernel, WGKernel, or sanpei kernel do really exist. all of these are just normal linux kernel, with some public patches and little changes.
we should not name the kernel binary we release to users too. because what we did just too trivial to mention if we compare these works with real kernel development. and some option tweaks are absolute nothing.
(you could name the ROM releases)
and we should promise that we will work in this project in the future, and we won't make a named kernel again, unless you rewrite more than 1/10 codes of the kernel and make it real different from a common kernel.
then, I will work with you guys together, you will find that I am not so idiotic as you may think now.
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Click to collapse
Hey Sanpei,
First of all I wanted to say thanks for the work you have done for 32a! I really appreciate it - it is something that I cannot do and have no knowledge of!
Secondly, I can understand the issue you have with the naming of the Kernel given that its more just tweaks to the linux kernel that is being done and not a whole new Kernel re-write. However, I think it is still necessary to give it some sort of a name for version tracking and to make sure that people know which version of the Kernel is being discussed / used.
So how about this: For the Kernel that you and others collectively work on for the community why don't we give it a generic name that is not specific to any one developer? We could call it "XDA32a Kernel" or something, that way we can track changes to our community Kernel and if something goes wrong or if there are bugs, people don't point the finger at any one developer/coder.
What do you think?
novat said:
Hey Sanpei,
First of all I wanted to say thanks for the work you have done for 32a! I really appreciate it - it is something that I cannot do and have no knowledge of!
Secondly, I can understand the issue you have with the naming of the Kernel given that its more just tweaks to the linux kernel that is being done and not a whole new Kernel re-write. However, I think it is still necessary to give it some sort of a name for version tracking and to make sure that people know which version of the Kernel is being discussed / used.
So how about this: For the Kernel that you and others collectively work on for the community why don't we give it a generic name that is not specific to any one developer? We could call it "XDA32a Kernel" or something, that way we can track changes to our community Kernel and if something goes wrong or if there are bugs, people don't point the finger at any one developer/coder.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with a generic name.
every binary release should provide correct commit code. they will give all the information we need in a build.
but you should talk to other developers. I just a thief and I can't get sources
Awesome Well I can't code or anything but I am a software tester by profession, and so I have some idea of project management... Maybe I could help get our 32a devs together to work on a joint kernel project?
Who would you suggest I contact to try to get together on a kernel dev team? Yourself, wez, cursor, any others?
Hi all,
Please let us know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-q5CEfiyQk&feature=youtu.be
Thanks!
SamsungJohn
Twitter:SamsungJohn
How about release some source or at the very least something that will help devs speed things up with ice cream? We paid for the phone, we want everything we can get.
+1
very interesting...
sign me up Scotty
Somewhat interesting, I have registered on the new Developer site, however it seems to be geared more towards app developers, with little of use to those doing platform work (AOSP bringups including Cyanogenmod porting, kernel development, etc.)
There are no IC datasheets, and no source code for test firmwares such as UCKL2 for the Infuse (SGH-I997).
Stickied for the time being
Thanks for the news. I will check it out to see if it is a good choice for beginning devs. It might also be interesting for me to learn more specifically regarding my Samsung phone.
does it mean,
some people develop ROM or app together?
make money?
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
AllGamer said:
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!
AllGamer said:
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. But it is a chance to get know and apreciated. And that could lead to money!!!
Entropy512 said:
Somewhat interesting, I have registered on the new Developer site, however it seems to be geared more towards app developers, with little of use to those doing platform work (AOSP bringups including Cyanogenmod porting, kernel development, etc.)
There are no IC datasheets, and no source code for test firmwares such as UCKL2 for the Infuse (SGH-I997).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AllGamer said:
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well said! It seem like Samsung have just discovered all the free work force to produce code that is much better than their own. Now they wanna tap into this, without giving anything of value in return.
How about dropping some spec-sheets on the HW level and some source code to their drivers, instead!?
Damnit, i'll have to learn some programming now! To the Batmobile!
+1 for "spec-sheets on the HW level and some source code to their drivers"
..especially for devices like Galaxy 3 (i5800/i5801), which (apparently), you are not going to update now on.
Sounds Cool
sounds pretty interesting, ill check out the youtube video.
Thanks for the news.
Would be nice if the video talked specifically about developing ROMs, especially AOSP-based...
useful info
merge samsung and htc rom?
hi i somewhat enjoy my samsung charge except for the predictive txt sucks i want exactly how the htc has theirs can anyone give me some info on merging these things i want to build or tweak a rom for the charge also currently downloading all the sdk stuff about to run over to samsung dev site and see if i can get into that also.
Great
great stuff, keep up the good work!
Seems like a great initiative from Samsung
Hello, I'd like to preface this post by saying it's not my goal to accuse anyone of anything or start a flame war. I'm genuinely curious, and just want some open discussion.
I've been confused recently by an undercurrent of resentment or ill-will in the development section. Dev's threads getting closed or deleted for not getting permission to use this or that in their ROM, snide remarks about their abilities in the ROM release thread, long rambling posts about "haters," etc.
What's with this? From my perspective, it almost looks like developers think they should have the right to post edits/changes to HTC's software and framework without permission, but then turn around and say nobody else can build upon their edits without permission.
I firmly believe in giving credit where credit is due, but isn't it a bit counter-productive and even hypocritical to have threads taken down because another dev says "hey I didn't say you could use that!" Isn't XDA built upon the fact that HTC and other manufacturers turn a blind eye to us using and altering their work and releasing the altered product without permission? What am I missing here?
Just to reiterate one more time: I'm not trying to be accusatory, I just honestly want to understand the other side of this argument and why this behavior is being tolerated around here. Thanks!
I agree with you.....but
There has been a few ROMs posted here, that are completely 'kanged' from someone elses ROM.. Now i know the ROM is based of HTC so we all should do as we wish with it, But when someone has spent a lot of time ironing out bugs, adding tweaks and generally reducing the size and making the ROM better... And then someone steals that, changes the build.prop to change the ROMs name and release it as their own is totally out of order..
Now not to mention any names, but this has been done several times since the release of this phone, Its this sort of behaviour that puts serious Developers off the idea of making this phone better for us all..
Majority of the Devs here hardly get paid for what they do, I doubt they receive enough in donations to jack there job and do this full time.. So wouldnt you be annoyed if someone stole your work ? and every one was giving you credit and thanks and donations, Even though those credits / donations belong to someone else ?
We should SHARE in this community, The majority of us do, However we should NOT KANG other peoples work..
Im a big kanger, i kang 3-4 ROMs together, Using bits i like from each ROM and use it as my daily driver, However I would not dream of releasing it as it goes against everything i stand for..
Great discussion you have right here man.
If you don't ask permission for work you can't use the ROM/files etc.
What sucks is if you PM the developer they still say "No" so what is a win win in this situation? People like the word "kanging". It's not kanging at all because none of these files were made by you! All of these files were made by HTC and there Team! Don't claim anything !
So what about leedroids ROM ?? None of his tweaks came built into the HTC ROM, Hes made them himself.. Would you just take his work even if he said no ??
That my friend is KANGING.
EDIT: You say
What sucks is if you PM the developer they still say "No" so what is a win win in this situation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely the win win situation is to put the effort in and make these mods / tweaks yourself ?? If a Dev says no, He doesnt mean, sneakily take it and rename it.
azzledazzle said:
So what about leedroids ROM ?? None of his tweaks came built into the HTC ROM, Hes made them himself.. Would you just take his work even if he said no ??
That my friend is KANGING.
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Click to collapse
No I never said that.
I'm just saying. Don't call your work yours because how about if HTC said "Nobody can use our ROM's a base" then if we use it we get sued.
Half of the ROM's are just built of there base with tons of modified things and they still get stuff from other people about "kanging" even with permission etc.
If you don't ask permission for work you can't use the ROM/files etc.
Whats getting you hot and bothered ?? No one here has mentioned your name in any of this, Unless you have a guilty conscience ??
Surely HTC make the ROM and it clearly states 'Do not distribute outside of HTC blabla legal action' Yet every ROM here did so in theory we are all kangers..
But what about android in General ? AOSP / AOKP / MIUI.. all built from scratch.. The effort and hard work Devs put in to make these ROMs work, Surely taking their work and using it without permission is wrong ? wouldn't you agree ?
That's life but I think the people should relax a bit more.
Until Lee's ROM there were only Stock ROMs with some improvement's and tweaks by he_stheone64.
Lee (a great and maybe the best dev) now included any tweaks which available.
But remember that he "only ported" the things from Jan (j4n87 or so is his name).
In fact the whole developement story is just kanging.- Kanging the release's of the company..
azzledazzle said:
Whats getting you hot and bothered ?? No one here has mentioned your name in any of this, Unless you have a guilty conscience ??
Surely HTC make the ROM and it clearly states 'Do not distribute outside of HTC blabla legal action' Yet every ROM here did so in theory we are all kangers..
But what about android in General ? AOSP / AOKP / MIUI.. all built from scratch.. The effort and hard work Devs put in to make these ROMs work, Surely taking their work and using it without permission is wrong ? wouldn't you agree ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not saying anything o-o.
I'll take that I'll take that that's a good thing and great way to say it! Even the HBoot says it yet people make S-OFF etc.
Agree 100% Actually Azzle! Right on
I don't think it is a matter of developers not wanting other developers to use there work- it is the fact that they didn't ask! Alot of work goes into making these Roms- it takes less than a min to send a pm- I know - i've done it
zylith said:
I don't think it is a matter of developers not wanting other developers to use there work- it is the fact that they didn't ask! Alot of work goes into making these Roms- it takes less than a min to send a pm- I know - i've done it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Love it
irony?
Anyway, hope this thread won't get to a ***** fight, I won't post in this one anymore..
zylith said:
I don't think it is a matter of developers not wanting other developers to use there work- it is the fact that they didn't ask! Alot of work goes into making these Roms- it takes less than a min to send a pm- I know - i've done it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. We're all a huge team/community just making our own ROMs and putting our personal touches to them. It's not about doing something and achieving something, and not wanting to share. Getting permission to use is all that's really required.
No need to fight over this stuff guys....it's just a mistake that can be fixed. No biggie. Just follow the proper procedures and avoid unnecessary run-ins like this. Let's focus on giving the community what they want....and that's options!!!
itsmikeramsay said:
Agreed. We're all a huge team/community just making our own ROMs and putting our personal touches to them. It's not about doing something and achieving something, and not wanting to share. Getting permission to use is all that's really required.
No need to fight over this stuff guys....it's just a mistake that can be fixed. No biggie. Just follow the proper procedures and avoid unnecessary run-ins like this. Let's focus on giving the community what they want....and that's options!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well put.
Not a dev, but been around awhile
On the HTC side--my impression is they don't mind these kangs, even back to the N1. Hence they allow unlocking. They monitor these forums and look for the improvements by the devs to help them also.
Now, that is just my understanding from xda posts I have read going back 2 years on this topic, I may be wrong--
Otherwise, 100% support for asking first and giving credit to original devs--
Ken
rugmankc said:
Not a dev, but been around awhile
On the HTC side--my impression is they don't mind these kangs, even back to the N1. Hence they allow unlocking. They monitor these forums and look for the improvements by the devs to help them also.
Now, that is just my understanding from xda posts I have read going back 2 years on this topic, I may be wrong--
Otherwise, 100% support for asking first and giving credit to original devs--
Ken
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Sent from ICS device!
Thanks for the replies. It makes sense to ask permission first before using others' work- only common courtesy I appreciate the different thoughts on this. Helps to understand where this stuff is coming from. Hopefully this doesn't become a downward spiral of devs having ill-will towards each other and refusing to work together.
Also, I never said HTC was against this community or what it does- only that it seemed hypocritical from some devs to take their work, alter it, and then actively try to stop others from building upon that.
shinkinrui said:
Thanks for the replies. It makes sense to ask permission first before using others' work- only common courtesy I appreciate the different thoughts on this. Helps to understand where this stuff is coming from. Hopefully this doesn't become a downward spiral of devs having ill-will towards each other and refusing to work together.
Also, I never said HTC was against this community or what it does- only that it seemed hypocritical from some devs to take their work, alter it, and then actively try to stop others from building upon that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would hope this brings us closer together- I am new to the dev world- but have been around xda for years. I have no ill will towards ANYONE. Hell people make mistakes- I make mistakes- fix the problem - then move on. We are here for each-other.
=
with relation to Htc themselves..im still in shock they havent implemented some of the modifications that xda or devs in general have come up with
htc need to be hiring some of the devs..if only to get rid of the nasty status bar they insist on keeping..in some ways i think they are doing it on purpose just to grate people!
look at the one s source for example..many people have complained and its still not released lol..i think they are just laughing at us
Those are not devs, they are just "devs" if you know what I mean
This is my view, Android is open source right? I mean I agree 100% Give credit where it is due but the thing is, we don't give credit to HTC for the rom base every time. It seems like when a system UI for example is modified, i don't see the issue that if you give them credit why do you have to ask them? Did we ask HTC if we can Mod their system UI? I mean its not like it was ours in the first place. It seems all over rated. If you say Hey thanks John Doe for the Blah blah blah then it shouldn't be an issue. That is one thing that can really put a damper on Development.
Look at the situation with people getting mad at HTC for having the HTC Evita (ATT One X) Having a locked bootloader! some of the devs and people here think they are entitled to these things.
Another Example, The HTC Ruby (Amaze 4G) S-off situation. HTC gives them an unlocked bootloader and they Demand S-off from them. I mean where does they hypocrisy end.
Basically, I believe that if dev's are going to request people to ask them first. I want the Dev's to call up htc before they make a rom, in addition to putting "Huge thanks to HTC for the rom base!" In their threads. Its open source, if they want it closed source then I advise the call apple and develop for them.
azzledazzle said:
Whats getting you hot and bothered ?? No one here has mentioned your name in any of this, Unless you have a guilty conscience ??
Surely HTC make the ROM and it clearly states 'Do not distribute outside of HTC blabla legal action' Yet every ROM here did so in theory we are all kangers..
But what about android in General ? AOSP / AOKP / MIUI.. all built from scratch.. The effort and hard work Devs put in to make these ROMs work, Surely taking their work and using it without permission is wrong ? wouldn't you agree ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
His response doesn't sound like he's hot or bothered at all. Looks like you're the one catching feelings
Sent from my Sensation using xda premium
Folks,
for those who may or may not know, my name is sooti, i've been a dev here building Android since 2012. I've build roms for galaxy s1, s2, s5, LG G3, Nexus 10 and more. In all of the device communities I've worked in, the majority of devs were nice, caring and were open to sharing the knowledge and helping out if needed, and I was always willing to do the same and have on many occasions. I have never hidden my work and have always immediately committed my solutions to github to help others develop faster and help the community grow, but since I got my Xiaomi A1 I've met a whole new brand of developers, who only care about getting credit and glory, have no interest in helping their fellow devs and even if and when they do, they force them to keep the code to themselves as well.
I will not name any names, but I think you can guess who, I am part of a team of devs, TEAM OREO, who have been working on our own to bring a fully working dt to the public and keep it open source, while another group has a fully working open source and is insisting on keeping the device tree to themselves. and while this doesn't violate Android rules per say, it violates the very spirit of AOSP and of XDA more then anything. We may understand companies like Xiaomi, Samsung, LG etc not sharing the rest of their source code due to monetary concerns but here at xda none of us are getting paid for our time, we are all working together to bring great projects to life for free for all to enjoy and modify and build new roms.
It really saddens me to see this and hope this is limited to this device only, although I suspect there may be some other XIaomi devices with the same bad devs.
My team and I will continue to work hard to bring you great roms and 100% open source so that you to can contribute and help this community grow.
We are currently looking for devs to help us get Camera working, which is the only thing missing, please contact me via PM and we will add you to our telegram group.
I hope to see better things in the future,
viva open source!
Sooti,
XDA developer and android enthusiast
We are also looking for testers. If you are interested, please ping me on Telegram. Make sure you know basic stuffs like taking logcat n all ?.
Regards,
#TEAMOREO
Thanks for all the work you have done for the community. I'm proud of the work TEAM OREO is bringing for the Mi A1 community and as a contributor to open source myself, I wish every other developer for the device would follow suit. I know this is just the beginning of the development phase of the device but I'm sure that other developers that will work on the phone will probably see your post and agree wholeheartedly. As a community, we must work together. There's no doubt that some people want all the praise and thanks from everyone. That's not how open source works. We aim to provide enhancements to our devices that the manufacturers are not able to give. And helping provide open trees for all is key.
I'm not giving up on the community. But I really want it to flourish. Thanks for all of your help in making this device one of the best I've ever owned.
Sent from my Xiaomi Mi A1 using XDA Labs
It's the same story, again and again...
It's like the www. Today is only money.
It's like the way the world is going.
Well it's not the first time i have seen this private stuff nature.... i had it in my old device ...
Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk
Yes I agree truly
TeamOreo will sure make bugless ROM soon
I have never seen such developers in my life who worked at late night to fix bugs @sooti @kunalshah @pranavbedre these guys worked very hard to bring initial Oreo
Hope this team gonna rock one day
Keep going and let's hope there's a valid reason behind for not releasing DT as of now.Looking forward for more ROMs TeamOreo!
@sooti
You and team oreo are here, so it's not so bad!
Thread closed
Point made, but this thread has only one direction of travel on it and its not a good one.
Thread re-opened at OP request.
However, i have cleaned the thread and if this thread goes the way i expect i will close it for good.
Greg
You guys have no rights to ask for the source when you won't contribute anything to the source. All you guys are going to do is use it for other ROMs which will end up having the same bugs as the current LOS builds. So here's my two cents, wait till everything is stable, SELinux enforcing and then the source will be available to the public as Abhishek has said.
JagravNaik said:
You guys have no rights to ask for the source when you won't contribute anything to the source. All you guys are going to do is use it for other ROMs which will end up having the same bugs as the current LOS builds. So here's my two cents, wait till everything is stable, SELinux enforcing and then the source will be available to the public as Abhishek has said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give them some respect dude...they aren't some amateurs trying to copy form some elses work they have already published their tree and where is tree of los15.1 ?
All other roms have their trees published which helps other developers to fix the bugs and help the rom become stable.but if every one wants to keep the glory and credit for themselves the community will get worser and worser
sreenucr7 said:
Give them some respect dude...they aren't some amateurs trying to copy form some elses work they have already published their tree and where is tree of los15.1 ?
All other roms have their trees published which helps other developers to fix the bugs and help the rom become stable.but if every one wants to keep the glory and credit for themselves the community will get worser and worser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
And if someones device tree isnt ready, why post the rom at all? And your welcome to look at my xda profile, if you think I haven't contributed... Your dead wring my friend
Sorry if my words have hurt you in anyway. I just don't want this community to end .
sreenucr7 said:
Sorry if my words have hurt you in anyway. I just don't want this community to end .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your ok, I was actually talking to the guys before you
I came over from the axon 7 forums about a week ago. i have been on the boards and dealing with android since the days of the logitech review {honeycomb i believe}. my take on the maturity here contravenes the gungho nature I have generally observed on this message board. it reminds me of what I imagine a 50 cent water army would act like when not in the office. i normally just sit in the back and observe read and learn as I go but since this is turning into group conflict it is my place to speak up. Sooti, guys I am with you in seeing the same sad state of affaira. this is definately not how civilization is built. but worse case scenario if spoilers at the table opt for self-interest over interest of the community, thereby causing entropy and disintigration, you will be able to find me over on the cyrillic android board with base in .ru they have good comraderie generally and thats across device forums as far as I can observe.
Thanks for bringing that up front straight. I came over as a user from Galaxy S devices in the hope that the MI A1 would flourish on a free and open (source) community spirit. Unfortunately things are even worse here. I don't have the time to contribute as a developer but I'd like you guys to know that I'm very thankful for your team's openess and your effort to bring true open source to this device and not let personal intrests and politics get in the way.
sooti said:
Folks,
for those who may or may not know, my name is sooti, i've been a dev here building Android since 2012. I've build roms for galaxy s1, s2, s5, LG G3, Nexus 10 and more. In all of the device communities I've worked in, the majority of devs were nice, caring and were open to sharing the knowledge and helping out if needed, and I was always willing to do the same and have on many occasions. I have never hidden my work and have always immediately committed my solutions to github to help others develop faster and help the community grow, but since I got my Xiaomi A1 I've met a whole new brand of developers, who only care about getting credit and glory, have no interest in helping their fellow devs and even if and when they do, they force them to keep the code to themselves as well.
I will not name any names, but I think you can guess who, I am part of a team of devs, TEAM OREO, who have been working on our own to bring a fully working dt to the public and keep it open source, while another group has a fully working open source and is insisting on keeping the device tree to themselves. and while this doesn't violate Android rules per say, it violates the very spirit of AOSP and of XDA more then anything. We may understand companies like Xiaomi, Samsung, LG etc not sharing the rest of their source code due to monetary concerns but here at xda none of us are getting paid for our time, we are all working together to bring great projects to life for free for all to enjoy and modify and build new roms.
It really saddens me to see this and hope this is limited to this device only, although I suspect there may be some other XIaomi devices with the same bad devs.
My team and I will continue to work hard to bring you great roms and 100% open source so that you to can contribute and help this community grow.
We are currently looking for devs to help us get Camera working, which is the only thing missing, please contact me via PM and we will add you to our telegram group.
I hope to see better things in the future,
viva open source!
Sooti,
XDA developer and android enthusiast
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reply by dev..for this matter
Hey I've known @abhishek987 from Redmi Note 3 forums and he's contributed greatly to LOS for the device and developed one of the most stable ROM(Ressurection Remix) on RN3.
So give him some time, like said earlier he's holding it until the bugs are ironed out. So many ROM threads already created with the same bugs, what's the point.
He's working hard on our device and not asking for any money. Give him space
iG0tB0lts said:
Hey I've known @abhishek987 from Redmi Note 3 forums and he's contributed greatly to LOS for the device and developed one of the most stable ROM(Ressurection Remix) on RN3.
So give him some time, like said earlier he's holding it until the bugs are ironed out. So many ROM threads already created with the same bugs, what's the point.
He's working hard on our device and not asking for any money. Give him space
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And not letting the other devs to work in the tree? So two groups doing the same job twice? Do you find any logic in it?
akrai said:
And not letting the other devs to work in the tree? So two groups doing the same job twice? Do you find any logic in it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. I thought the same just after posting. Well anyway, lets hope for good