Coming from being an iPhone fanboy, I was well aware of the snooty attitudes that are rampant over there. Now that I have a taste of the Android side, I have learned a few things, some the hard way, and one thing I've noticed is how the attitudes are much the same. I have met some cool people with some great ideas and skills, and there are even a few that will answer questions. I get that some get annoyed at the asking of the same questions over and over. However, as a Dev, you should be expecting this. As Android takes more and more market share, new people are coming into this (like me) and trying to learn as much as we can. Some want simple answers, some want more complicated ones. I did a lot of the research myself, watching videos, Google searches, etc. But some people don't know how to, or just aren't computer literate.
XDA is a GREAT resource for information. But like other sites, sometimes you have to word your searches just right or you get nothing close to what you are trying to find out. Not the site's fault, it's just the way search engines are. So a hoard of people head into the threads, asking questions, and mostly getting good answers, But, as I have trolled through, I notice a lot of attitudes coming from devs, or friends of devs as they attack people because they didn't have 4 hours to troll though 500 pages in a thread, reading each and every post. Hoping their question was asked and answered before. If that makes you angry, maybe you should just make your ROMs and share them with a few friends and call it a day. From what I can see, most of the ROMs are pretty much the same in a lot of respects. I know the difference between TW ROMs and AOSP ROMs. I did the homework. I learned the hard way by soft bricking my phone, and I researched and got myself out of that jam thanks to the videos and postings of some nice people. There are a lot of people that don't have the PC skills or the time to do that. And even more that have no idea about message boards and how they work. BTW, the term "flaming" someone is as irritating to me as those people that ask the same questions over and over are to you. This is almost 2013. Terms like that are the exact reason I hate having to use message boards. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as you are. It doesn't mean they are dumb, they just don't want to learn, or they don't have the time.
I guess I'm trying to say, if you are going to put yourself out there by developing a ROM for free, and then complain because someone asks you a question or bugs you because you haven't updated it, maybe you should just all start charging for the ROMs. I will go back to stock myself, but I'm sure there are a few that will pay to have a few extras a little ahead of time. Then your base will shrink, allowing you to breathe easier knowing you are getting paid for your time. Maybe then, you will have to be a little nicer, more customer friendly. If you don't think you are getting the recognition you deserve, then don't do it. I know many would miss the customization, but they would quickly forget about it and find something else to do. And by the way, I have never had an issue like this. I'm strictly speaking from an observers point of view. Matter of fact, I may start doing some reviews, that will include not only the ROM itself, but the developers attitude when it comes to helping people through their issues. I think people should have the right to know if they are going to get help or not when choosing a ROM or other custom feature.
In closing, a lot of questions could be answered if some threads were created and "stickied" that explain the basic functions and directions dealing with flashing ROMs. It seems a lot of the "bugs" people experience are actually explainable because they had no clue what a clean flash vs dirty flashing was. Or that if you had Nova on one ROM, then flashed another ROM and Nova auto installed along with your other apps, that you would have to uninstall Nova to avoid problems. Or that CM kernels are not compatible with TW kernels and if the new ROM you are flashing doesn't install a new kernel, your new ROM may not be compatible with the one left behind form the old. Stuff like that. Sorry for the long post. Again, I have had no problems with anyone on here, dev or not, I just have seen a lot of this happening. And a lot of the attitudes are from dumb little things. You wanted to make ROMs, we all didn't force you to. And if you stop, others will take your place. I have seen that recently too, as soon as the new Nexus hit, a ton of devs left the SGS3 in the dust. But a few new guys showed up and have done a great job with their stuff. Congrats to them, I have found a good stable ROM because of this, and have received great support from this guy. He also regularly updates and interacts with the people taking the time to possibly brick their device to load his ROM. I hope more of those people show up in the future. Those are the people I will keep following and being patient with.
Most people usually help out, some don't. I just have a problem with developers thinking their **** don't stink as you'll learn if you venture out of this forum.
This thread is kinda out of line. Devs deliver us ROMs for free, who's to say what's expected and what's not? The only thing XDA requires devs to do is make their process or code open source, that's it. Devs aren't customer service reps, nor do they have to answer questions and play nice. They are doing us a favor by releasing the latest and the greatest bottom line. If your going to run a ROM, you should read the entire thread because there may be things you have to do, and if it weren't for people asking the same question over and over, threads would be half as long. If you dont have the time or the patience to do the research, you shouldn't be modding your device to begin with.
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Elite49 said:
Most people usually help out, some don't. I just have a problem with developers thinking their **** don't stink as you'll learn if you venture out of this forum.
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Yes, that does seem to be an issue. I notice too that the Original Android Devs are a little more snooty than the TW devs. Just my observation.
Do you honestly blame them? If they are going to spend hours and hours of their time coding, learning, and releasing ROMs for you, for free, and on top of it have you spend 10 mins maybe searching for an answer and then bothering them? I honestly don't blame them.
I've spent hours breaking things just to figure out how they work. Flashing things over and over and over again.
I wouldn't want to do that for hours on end, to have someone spend 10 mins, give up, and cry to me for help, then get mad when I didn't hand them the answer.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Shibby87 said:
This thread is kinda out of line. Devs deliver us ROMs for free, who's to say what's expected and what's not? The only thing XDA requires devs to do is make their process or code open source, that's it. Devs aren't customer service reps, nor do they have to answer questions and play nice. They are doing us a favor by releasing the latest and the greatest bottom line. If your going to run a ROM, you should read the entire thread because there may be things you have to do, and if it weren't for people asking the same question over and over, threads would be half as long. If you dont have the time or the patience to do the research, you shouldn't be modding your device to begin with.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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You're right, they do deliver them for free. But people are trusting them and risking bricking a very expensive device to try their ROM and push their ROMs on other people. They willingly put themselves out there. We all could buy and use phones without customizing them. I'm just saying they act a little too fancy sometimes. Not all of them. Just a few.
Why is this out of line? I posted this in the general section. If I would have posted it anywhere else you would have said it should be in the General forum. See, you made one of my points for me. And last time I checked, I can say whatever I want. If the forum wants to cut it, fine. I'll deal with it on my outlet. No big deal.
Not going to lie, I think Android fanboys are worse than Apple fanboys from what I've seen. I was on a YouTube channel where a woman was talking about how she got an iPhone after selling her Galaxy Nexus and the comments were, "Go kill yourself iwhore", "Traitor sheep", "iSlut", Dumb bimbo etc. The most I see on Mac rumors are "poorphone" or no apps, or cheap looking. Whereas here, if you say iPhone you'll have a ton of people start calling you a sheep. I don't know, I think its incredible how ignorant some people are. Some people just like other things.
Galaxy SIII/Soon to be Note 2 owner once it comes in ftw.
Oh as an edit. That Instagram thing was awful a few months back when Android got instagram. iOS users were saying, "Oh now we get to see what poor people do" Terrible. Simply terrible.
nosympathy said:
Do you honestly blame them? If they are going to spend hours and hours of their time coding, learning, and releasing ROMs for you, for free, and on top of it have you spend 10 mins maybe searching for an answer and then bothering them? I honestly don't blame them.
I've spent hours breaking things just to figure out how they work. Flashing things over and over and over again.
I wouldn't want to do that for hours on end, to have someone spend 10 mins, give up, and cry to me for help, then get mad when I didn't hand them the answer.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
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I doubt people are giving up in 10 minutes and running for the forums. Most people don't want to risk any of this to possibly ruin their expensive phones. The point is, they put themselves out there and make themselves available on the forums. If they don't want to deal with noobs (which every one of you was at one time or another) then throw up a ROM on some site and leave it. I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I figured out a lot on my own too. I have asked very few questions of anyone. But there are a lot of people that don't have the time or knowledge to find all this out on their own. If they are being asked the same question over and over, maybe put those answers in the OP to begin with. I have seen quite a few ROMs posted with very little info in the OPs. They aer banking on everyone knowing what they are doing right off the bat.
And lets really clear some things up. Some of these "Devs" aren't really developing anything. They have the time and/or patience and utilize the kitchen to strip down a stock rom. They throw in some mods that real devs made and slap their name on it. Then ask for donations like they just did something incredible. I've tried just about every modified stock rom on xda and there was really no difference. And God forbid someone has anything negative to say about a rom.
And in regards to the aosp devs, if they dont want to be asked questions or don't want their work criticized they shouldn't be making roms for the public. This forum is filled with smart asses that think everyone should know what they know. Everyone at one point had to ask someone else for help because how else do you learn.
Sent from my Galaxy S III
RCITNet said:
And lets really clear some things up. Some of these "Devs" aren't really developing anything. They have the time and/or patience and utilize the kitchen to strip down a stock rom. They throw in some mods that real devs made and slap their name on it. Then ask for donations like they just did something incredible. I've tried just about every modified stock rom on xda and there was really no difference. And God forbid someone has anything negative to say about a rom.
And in regards to the aosp devs, if they dont want to be asked questions or don't want their work criticized they shouldn't be making roms for the public. This forum is filled with smart asses that think everyone should know what they know. Everyone at one point had to ask someone else for help because how else do you learn.
Sent from my Galaxy S III
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This. This is the cancer invading xda lately. Ungrateful ****s...
my tapatalk signature sucks more than yours.
RCITNet said:
And lets really clear some things up. Some of these "Devs" aren't really developing anything. They have the time and/or patience and utilize the kitchen to strip down a stock rom. They throw in some mods that real devs made and slap their name on it. Then ask for donations like they just did something incredible. I've tried just about every modified stock rom on xda and there was really no difference. And God forbid someone has anything negative to say about a rom.
And in regards to the aosp devs, if they dont want to be asked questions or don't want their work criticized they shouldn't be making roms for the public. This forum is filled with smart asses that think everyone should know what they know. Everyone at one point had to ask someone else for help because how else do you learn.
Sent from my Galaxy S III
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That is why they are guides and info posted in op if bugs and such?
I sure did not post here when I was rooting oh I need some help with adb fastboot Odin what's the problem there are plenty of guides that cover everything
People just tend to give up so easily; that's how lazy the generation has become. Those guides posted helped me out and such. I didn't ask someone else for helped I did this on my own with a guide up on here now I know more than just rudimentary things of the android world I help people out but still gets annoying when you have 5 if the same threads I mean if I could find them why can't they? It's really not that hard.
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Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
This thread is getting heated I see a monitor locking it soon
Sent using xda premium
As someone buying a G1 and not even knowing what rooting was, I have no sympathy for the winers. I soft bricked, got almost no sleep reading up on recovering it, and I never once posted a question. Now I'm flashing/recovering/restoring any device I want.
The devs spend countless hours working on making roms and apps for us, the least you could do is research (hours if necessary) before asking the same questions that have been answered previously. If you can't handle common sense tasks then a) don't root or flash b) stay with your iPhone
Not trying to rip anyone, but this is a pointless thread Imo.
Sent from the Matrix
dnar56 said:
As someone buying a G1 and not even knowing what rooting was, I have no sympathy for the winers. I soft bricked, got almost no sleep reading up on recovering it, and I never once posted a question. Now I'm flashing/recovering/restoring any device I want.
The devs spend countless hours working on making roms and apps for us, the least you could do is research (hours if necessary) before asking the same questions that have been answered previously. If you can't handle common sense tasks then a) don't root or flash b) stay with your iPhone
Not trying to rip anyone, but this is a pointless thread Imo.
Sent from the Matrix
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Endorsed.
Replace G1 with D1 and that's my story. I googled. I bricked. I bricked a lot. And I read. End of story.
You make it seem like phone tinkering and flashing are a right, a service if you will. It's not. This is a site for phone geeks to share their work. You should be grateful it's not a paid service. Why fix something that's not broken? If you don't like the way it is, you have plenty of options out there. You are complaining about forums in general - it's not limited to xda.
For the record, your post was pretty good until the last paragraph. Didn't agree with that one, however - that's Ok. Your opinion. Just like this is mine...
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I do have to add though that out of like the 15 touchwiz stock ROMs out there, most of them are the same. And personally I think dev's should accept and take in whatever criticism they get for their ROM. As constructive criticism, so they can make their ROM better.
If they have no desire to make it better, then they should outright say their will only be one release. If they feel someone is being disrespectful, they should be the better person and tell them politely to not be so disrespectful. Just my opinion, and yes I am grateful for all the devs do here.
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NightxFall said:
I do have to add though that out of like the 15 touchwiz stock ROMs out there, most of them are the same. And personally I think dev's should accept and take in whatever criticism they get for their ROM. As constructive criticism, so they can make their ROM better.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
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Constructive criticism is fine. What's annoying (even from a non-dev perspective) is the same question getting asked over and over again. Sometimes a dead horse is kicked up for 4-5 pages. Then once it finally dies down, some dude asks the same question. It's silly and unnecessary. If they Google their question followed by ", xda" they would have found the original answer.
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First, I have no problems with XDA. That wasn;t the intention. XDA provides a great service to people who want to customize their phone AND devs that want to put their work out there.
Second, if you feel like this thread is useless, why are you spending the time to respond?
Third, the statement I made wasn't a slam on anyone. I am well aware of people that are too lazy to search things out for themselves. The point I was making, is we need each other. If we refuse to tinker with our phones, the devs are essentially doing this for themselves and a few friends that want to join in. If they aren't creating ROMs, we don't have a way to customize our phones. However, we can get along without each other too. I know if the ROMs weren't there, I would still enjoy the use of my smartphone. If we weren't downloading, devs would still tinker with building ROMs. The whole issue is how we treat each other on ANY forum. If you are getting asked the same questions over and over, maybe a the first post should be updated with those Q&A's. I have seen very few OPs do that. In fact, a majority of the AOSP threads have nothing at all posted regarding issues or potential problems. They just expect everyone to know everything. Everybody learned from somebody else. Whether it was through Google search, this forum or YouTube videos. MOST of the people complaining about the same questions being asked have very little info on their thread.
Again, props to those devs that don't mind helping people out. And props to XDA for providing the forum. The rest should put up pay sites maybe, but their ROM downloads would quickly fall. I have enjoyed my experience thus far tinkering around with something new. But the few in the community that whine about people asking questions should settle down and realize how you act. That goes for the "customer" that can't ask nicely too. I'm not anti-dev. I get what they do is tough and time consuming.
Real_JESRadio said:
First, I have no problems with XDA. That wasn;t the intention. XDA provides a great service to people who want to customize their phone AND devs that want to put their work out there.
Second, if you feel like this thread is useless, why are you spending the time to respond?
Third, the statement I made wasn't a slam on anyone. I am well aware of people that are too lazy to search things out for themselves. The point I was making, is we need each other. If we refuse to tinker with our phones, the devs are essentially doing this for themselves and a few friends that want to join in. If they aren't creating ROMs, we don't have a way to customize our phones. However, we can get along without each other too. I know if the ROMs weren't there, I would still enjoy the use of my smartphone. If we weren't downloading, devs would still tinker with building ROMs. The whole issue is how we treat each other on ANY forum. If you are getting asked the same questions over and over, maybe a the first post should be updated with those Q&A's. I have seen very few OPs do that. In fact, a majority of the AOSP threads have nothing at all posted regarding issues or potential problems. They just expect everyone to know everything. Everybody learned from somebody else. Whether it was through Google search, this forum or YouTube videos. MOST of the people complaining about the same questions being asked have very little info on their thread.
Again, props to those devs that don't mind helping people out. And props to XDA for providing the forum. The rest should put up pay sites maybe, but their ROM downloads would quickly fall. I have enjoyed my experience thus far tinkering around with something new. But the few in the community that whine about people asking questions should settle down and realize how you act. That goes for the "customer" that can't ask nicely too. I'm not anti-dev. I get what they do is tough and time consuming.
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We spend time to respond to actually have you realize no one is gna be here all the time for you some things you have to be done by themselves, I'm 16 I wonder when you'll realize that. No one is gna be up your ass changing your clothes for you either learn the hard way or just not at all.
I have seen multiple threads of people complaining that their data is gone on cm10.1 and not one has bothered to even look at the op's post clearly showing the way to fix it. They just want the easy way out to ask and have someone redirect them there and I have but it gets tiring doing it over and over and over again.
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Despite me being new to XDA I am not new to the process of rooting android phones. I have been rooting other people's phones before I bought the Galaxy S 3. I don't ask questions in forums I research my own answers to my questions. I noticed the same things as the person who started this thread I just don't see the point in bringing it up as it will continue to happen.
Unlike all the badass geniuses in here I have asked questions since I got my first smartphone less than a month ago.
I think it's pretty stupid how people think they're so cool because they figured out how to root, there are so many details in rooting/flashing ROMs and kernels and these high end smart phones are very expensive especially now because of the **** economy, people just don't want to brick they're phones they invested so much in.
People aren't supposed to know all the bugs in a new ROM they flashed and you guys are giving this "issue" too much priority.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
So... Sometimes I think to myself why basically no developers care about us anymore.. I came up with an idea pretty quick.. We are annoying most of the time to them. Especially the people to ask questions without just looking through the threads a bit. Obviously they have no experience forum hunting. I haven't had that much experience myself with forums, but it does not take long before we see the downside of our community. The people who post the most on XDA are Forum peeps.. second.. newbs... Sometimes I consider myself one for I feel sorry doing that for questions so dumb, but that was before I learned google doesn't really work through XDA forums that much. You google GS4 MF3 Recovery Bounty and it shows the wrong post on the top. The right post that you'd be interested in is a few links down. But I learned that lesson.
My question to the community, is why do we bother with people like this? The second someone has a serious post about anything, a newb comes along and says "PLEASE RELEASE THE MF3 RECOVERY>> OMG>>...." Those guys should be banned... and I see that way to often... (sadly I see it more in the Jailbreak for iphone more) but it is still in this forum too. Reason for this is probably really simple. This forum has gotten to be the most popular android related forum existing. Everyone that roots their phone has heard of XDA. So... what happens when one of those 14 year old root consumers has a problem? They (hopefully) google it.. then runs into the stupid google problem with XDA for unrelated crap, then posts directly here. Then we come along and say "if you would have looked, it's right in this thread, and everyone has that problem, so don't complain". I have a little sympathy for them, but after a while, those same people become those people who just scan the forums every day for some news of a possible MF3 Exploit, then one they see a serious post, they might think SOMETHINGS BEING DONE!!!......... Ugh... Huge sigh there.
So.. what could we do about it? One, we could ask google to fix their results to be more relevant for us.. but that may or may not ever happen. What else? We could just not let newbs post anywhere for the first day, only in Q&A threads the next weeks, then everything else after 2 months, that gives them enough time to learn that your exploit may never come.. especially if people like them do what they do every day. That won't get rid of everything. Especially on the Q&A, but it would keep the serious threads not kept in the Q&A thread relevant and less of a chance of newbs coming and replying. This is more an idea for the Mod's/Admins to consider, just more strict of a new user system.
Those intentions are only to relieve some of the bad feelings most hacker/devs have here, like DjrBliss. He flat out just dropped out of the forum a little after he released his Loki. And he's having a great time over on the moto x conversations you hear him have on twitter.
That's all I have to say for now.. And this is only my opinion on matters, may not be yours, so.. ya.
Have a good rest of the day you all
Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.
Cool story, bro. Take the Google search course if you're having problems searching. Here's a hint. Google "your subject xda" You'll get the hits your looking for first.
agent929 said:
Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.
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Yup your probably right there.. Well My ideas were somewhat close..
Hello there!
So... I am usually seen as the more "techie" person among my group of friends & acquaintances (mainly because.. I know how to use Google, LOL), and that's been well and fine up until now. However, I've had a good friend ask me to help root his Samsung S20 Ultra for him, and return it when it is finished. I figured "Fine, why not?", considering I've rooted a few devices in the (distant) past...
As mentioned before, I'm not a *complete* noob when it comes to rooting/modding Android devices, but it has been quite a while since doing so... Since I feel a bit too "rusty" and more than a bit lost when reading up on this topic online--even when studying up on the topic on these very forums, I've realized that I'd probably get the job done faster, and overall be better off in the end, if I just ask the experts (hopefully you guys!) directly instead of trying to rush to figure it all out and attempt this purely on my own--since I'm not 100% confident at this point with what steps I should take first.
So, after seeing many people linking here, and saying that this forum is the place to go for these kinds of inquiries, well... Here I am!
There are screenshots taken from "CPU-Z" with all of the details of the device attached to this post, so anyone who is willing to help can be 100% sure of what I've got, if you need it.
Thanks much!
RichLOrton1991 said:
Hello there!
So... I am usually seen as the more "techie" person among my group of friends & acquaintances (mainly because.. I know how to use Google, LOL), and that's been well and fine up until now. However, I've had a good friend ask me to help root his Samsung S20 Ultra for him, and return it when it is finished. I figured "Fine, why not?", considering I've rooted a few devices in the (distant) past...
As mentioned before, I'm not a *complete* noob when it comes to rooting/modding Android devices, but it has been quite a while since doing so... Since I feel a bit too "rusty" and more than a bit lost when reading up on this topic online--even when studying up on the topic on these very forums, I've realized that I'd probably get the job done faster, and overall be better off in the end, if I just ask the experts (hopefully you guys!) directly instead of trying to rush to figure it all out and attempt this purely on my own--since I'm not 100% confident at this point with what steps I should take first.
So, after seeing many people linking here, and saying that this forum is the place to go for these kinds of inquiries, well... Here I am!
There are screenshots taken from "CPU-Z" with all of the details of the device attached to this post, so anyone who is willing to help can be 100% sure of what I've got, if you need it.
Thanks much!
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Typically, Verizon phones are bootloader "locked". Without being able to unlock the bootloader, it is not rootable. However, there should be a dedicated forum for your device. I'd check there.