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Ok, here's the deal
I'm getting really frustrated lately at the quality of posts on this forum. I came here about a year ago because i didn't know a thing about about my phone and had a desire to learn a lot. At that time I was greeted with nthing but kindness and a willingness to help.
Now...
Nobody, it seems, regardless of how much or little they have contributed to this community can so much as ask a question anymore. Questions will usually get answered, but almost never without 6 or 7 flame posts accompanying it. I see literally hundreds of posts from people saying we need to cut the clutter in forums. I personally like some of the personal convos that happen here and considered many members here to be friends and comrades.
I guess my point is this. Even if a question is driving you nuts it's easier to post a link to the page containing the answer than it is to write a hate letter to a new member. If you are that new member, it's easy to read the forums (most of them really aren't that long and that's what we have a wiki for). let's cut the stress on xda a little, eh? At last check I thought this is where we all came for fun. Am I right?
I agree
It is hard to get answers...here...I thought some were friends too....turned out that they were not very nice....I have learned alot here....but it seems that I learned the hard way.....I thought is would be fun too.....sometimes it's a pain in the ass to figure some stuff out.
Peace
Mike
Calaelen313 said:
Ok, here's the deal
I'm getting really frustrated lately at the quality of posts on this forum. I came here about a year ago because i didn't know a thing about about my phone and had a desire to learn a lot. At that time I was greeted with nthing but kindness and a willingness to help.
Now...
Nobody, it seems, regardless of how much or little they have contributed to this community can so much as ask a question anymore. Questions will usually get answered, but almost never without 6 or 7 flame posts accompanying it. I see literally hundreds of posts from people saying we need to cut the clutter in forums. I personally like some of the personal convos that happen here and considered many members here to be friends and comrades.
I guess my point is this. Even if a question is driving you nuts it's easier to post a link to the page containing the answer than it is to write a hate letter to a new member. If you are that new member, it's easy to read the forums (most of them really aren't that long and that's what we have a wiki for). let's cut the stress on xda a little, eh? At last check I thought this is where we all came for fun. Am I right?
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Well said. Unfortunately unfriendliness seems to come in an annual cycle (there are reasons - I won't bore you with). At these times it can be quite depressing, the joy in our time here can dwindle very low and some may even leave.
You might say, "hang on, he's a Mod, why doesn't he do something about it? The answer is we try, but sometimes it's as if these antagonistic periods come in waves and popping in now and again to Mod the odd thing here and there is not enough.
However, if you spot abusive, unhelpful posts then click on the report post button. We have an improved system for these reports to get to the Mods, but it only works if members use it.
Things will improve, generally around July/August if the past is anything to go by!
Mike
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
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samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
It seems lately there has been alot of negativity towards people asking questions. There have been far too many replies to questions with people complaining about the question, and the complaint takes longer to post than the answer. If you don't want to answer someones question, don't open the thread!! This is supposed to be a friendly, helpful community. There will always be different levels of experience. There is not 1 person on this forum that has never experienced the panic factor when they thought they messed up their phone. Let's keep that in mind when someone asks a question without doing an extensive search first.
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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+10,000
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Well yes that's true and all but the OP has a point when he said everyone has that panic attack and doesnt bother looking before posting I mean seriously when you think your really screwed over and may have just wasted $400 I know now I'd probably look first but when I first started out with my good ol G1 I flipped **** man! Its still bricked, sitting in a shelf somewhere. But I became more experienced as I moved from MT3G to MT4G so yea noobs to forums will always be an issue here I mean really in what forum aren't they? But its better to be supportive than criticize the new Guy with a broken phone by saying 'go look in this thread or this or this or this' I mean it just makes em feel bad. This is hypocritical since I know I have a few posts criticizing noons on here for posting but whatever it happens.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
I agree with people generally needing to read up on as much as they can, especially when they're starting with android and/or rooting, but I will say there's something nice about having a chat about your particular situation. Reading an old thread often has useful information, but I could definitely see how a poster might need/want more specific, personalized advice that meets whatever issue they're having head-on. And often, I know I've been researching a particular issue, will find old threads on it, but still need additional clarification.
Obviously, people should be able to help themselves as much as possible - but in the end, that's why this is a forum, and not a tech blog, so that people CAN have discourse about common areas of interest and, hopefully, help one another out.
lowandbehold said:
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?
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Okay i wasn't going to say a damn thing till i saw this line.
You are 100% correct we are not officially the Android Police or Phone Police. However neither are you. WE are not telling people what to do with their devices. We are simply throwing up road blocks. As if to say....
do not proceed the bridge is out
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and you you keep on going and ignore the blatant warnings and crash and burn you shouldn't come here crying that you jacked something. On the same note we did not force you to do anything to your phone. No one from XDA held a Glock 19 and uttered the words " ROOT YOUR MUTHA EFFING PHONE OR WE KILL YOU".... you chose to do it willingly. And you should be man enough to say well i screwed my phone and i need to fix it.
9/10 people here will answer the question at hand. regardless of its "how do i root my phone", "how do i flash an image" or what ever else have you. but it someone has a low post count we will absolutely throw warnings out there. Android devices are mini Linux Computers. Now i do not claim to be a *UNIX guru, nor do i claim to be an Android guru, but i've seen enough people to brick their phones do routine things to know better......
I joined XDA because i was tired of the drama on Android Central and Cracberry's Android section. I wanted to find a good group of guys with similar interest, with similar phones and the exact same motto.
Someone once helped me with Android, and i feel i need to do the same.
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and i found XDA, i lurked for a while and thought this a good place to be....
just because you see "negative comments" doesn't mean we don't have the best intent in our hearts. We just understand what can come with things are done incorrectly.
And to finish up to answer your question "where is the love", sometimes the best love one can show is tough love, it might not appear to be there now, but down the road.... well hind sight is always 20/20.
I've struggled conceptually countless times on these forums and people have been gracious enough to help me out, but the couple of times I thought I might have actually messed up my phone the first thought that entered my head wasn't "OH SH!T, let me write an incoherent post in the first forum i see and wait for my savior," it was "you idiot, you read about this possibility and now you have a worthless piece of electronics, maybe next time you won't be so stupid." I then researched my issue and, luckily, found a solution. You can learn how to do ANYTHING on the internet these days, that's the beauty of global communication. I just think most people get frustrated when someone asks another to take time out of their day to assist them when it is clear by their post that they didn't even take the time to help themselves, you know?
No one here has a problem with helping someone out; that is clear by sheer number of question posts that get answered daily- especially when people follow the forum guidelines and at least attempt to present their issue with as much detail as possible. It's the "SOMEONE HELP ME CLOCKWORK BROKE MY PHONE" posted in the development section that cause more trouble than anything.
Just like there were many threads complaining about people not answering questions or being hostile to newbs.
Here's the very basic explanation on how to not make an ass out of yourself and save us all from answering the same thing over and over again:
1. Read BEFORE you do something
2. Read and UNDERSTAND what you're about to do, again, BEFORE you do it.
3. If anything goes wrong - take a step back to think what you did, have a smoke/drink/whatever you do and relax. Search for an answer on similar situation, bet you money it has been answered before. If all fails, write up well-organized, informative post with all info (what you had, what you did and what happened) and be patient. 5 threads within 2 hrs will not get you any farther.
Good luck to all.
People dont mind helping or answering questions its just that no one honestly reads before posting. 9 out of 10 questions have answers within the forum.
Sent From My Evil Glacier Using Xda Premium App.
Charle is 100% percent correct in his statement. In all honesty all the information for rooting, flashing recovery, custom roms are in the development section under the rom bible in the development section. The hard part has already been done for us.
I 100% agree that you should read ALOT before deciding to root. I read everything and watched videos for over a week before deciding to root.
The main point I was trying to make is that if you are sick of answering the same question, don't answer it. Just don't type anything. Hit the back button. There is no need for the rude remarks.
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.
lowandbehold said:
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.
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I apologize, i'm at work and and got heated about something here and really shouldn't of posted that....and when i saw "where is the love", knowing how much i try to help people out around here... it just really bothered me....
you line made it sound like, if we have some one that pops and their very first post is "how do i root my phone" we should bow down and help them. With out throwing any warnings out. just here is how to do it and explain step by step how to.
First of all i will throw out warnings, i will never ward anyone away from doing what they want to do with their device. After all it's their money they are gambling with.
secondly when i bought my first android (mytouch3G) phone i bought with a stock recovery image and a working bootloader and i had to figure everything else from there. I had to learn quickly, if i wanted my phone up and running. So thanks for the props on being knowledgeable, but it was something i pretty much had to do. And people read on BGR, Android Central, or what ever popular bog site about XDA members did this and XDA members did that they jump on here and expect us to hold their hand. People have very well laid out threads on how do do certain things. The reason i treat others the way i do when it comes to problem solving is pretty simple. I had someone do the same for me. A higher up for T-Mobile that took the time and showed me how to do what i needed done. And that kinda what my idea of the Android community is. People helping people, for the fun and enjoyment of it.
with that being said....
With True_blue, Option94, faux123 not to mention another 1/2 dozen good developers and highly knowledgeable people that put things out in black and white, easy to understand English their should be no reason why so many of the same exact threads show up. You can type in just about any Android problem or request in Google and it'll lead you to XDA, and the thread in question. Just like the thread with the guy that just posted " how do i get 2.3, the nexus s variant on my phone"... step one should of been research in stead of starting a new thread....It's the laziness that bothers me. Like with programs like Super Manager and Root Explorer, people are to lazy to learn the ADB commands.... Clockwork ROM manager, people are to lazy to flash a recovery image. Or flashing a ROM go south... did you check the MD5sum? "nope, whats that"... it's just pure laziness that bothers me...
I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.
lowandbehold said:
I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.
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I was one of them idiots that had that cnt mount cache or data issue with my phone,worst thing ever lol...Anyway instead of askin questions on 1 or 2 threads,it went to a bunch of different threads & it did get a lil annoyin cause we all tryin to find a fix but cnt really lock on one cause its soo many diff threads,its just all over the place,if people would just calm dwn & wait for the thread to get answered all would be good but people are impatient & start new threads of the same BS.....
I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
UntamedDeviance said:
I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good example but pretty useless lol.. honestly I enjoy helping out people that's why I'm around here. Helping people makes me feel accomplished no matter what the scenario but fixing the same thing over and over gets to the point where its redundant and you want to get the point across to hit the search button. Hell most of the time ill even link to the thread but when I'm on my phone like I am currently I can't. I enjoy helping but I enjoy even more helping people who can help themselves.
Sent from my HTC Glaciee using XDA Premium App
i totally agree with neidlinger on his points. I started with a G1, Mytouch 3g, mytouch slide, and now MT4G. I read everything i could get my hands on how to root and reread it again. If i still didn't understand something, then i would ask a question or search for it. Most of the posts i read nowadays, people want to be spoon-fed out of sheer laziness.
If the questions posed in these forums were even half as thought out as the comments in this thread, 95% of the snappy remarks would disappear. People want to know they are assisting someone who values that assistance. One or two sentences rarely creates that picture.
When I first got my ns4g, I was into being active in this forum section. I would help out people with their questions or problems. Then I noticed things becoming monotonous very quickly. What I saw was many different people asking questions or having problems with stuff that had already been answered or solved in posts elsewhere many times over. I began being irritated by this and would sometimes lay into them or be very sarcastic. After that, I stopped posting anything because I got to the point where I wanted to yell at them for not looking around and the answer was right around the corner and I was tired of saying "look here (link)".
I know I can't be the only one like this. Anyone else care to share their frustrations about this?
Maybe I'm getting old or burnt out.
its apart of the deal of helping others out. think of it as if you're working at customer service, you'd encounter this problem on a daily basis. ive helped a lot of people on the NS forum and i know how you feel
I think the main issue is the poor search results.
Use the search tool and you have to either plow through tens of thousands of non-helpful results, or you post a question in a new thread.
Anyway, a thread like this which just going to be complaints is not very helpful either. You could have added your statement to the end of another thread about repetitive questions...Instead, you started a new thread.
What you probably need to do is step away from the forums and get some fresh air ;-)
This post wasn't intended to help, it was intended to vent frustration and confirm I wasn't the only one occasionally losing my mind.
Customer service...... I pondered that thought for a minute and remembered a story I read years ago. It was the one where the help center guy told the customer to pack up the computer and send it back because they were too stupid to use a computer.
Oh well, at least I just made myself laugh.
I know how you feel. When I first joined xda (in my evo days) I was very involved with helping others out, etc. The useless questions annoyed me, but what really got to me is when people would ask the same questions within a thread for a rom, kernel, or mod. I mean, many times the question and answer was literally on the previous page. That isn't xda's horrible search function (which isn't too bad to search w/in an individual thread, but is really bad for an entire forum), that's laziness.
So I just stepped away a bit. I mean, for God's sake, these ARE just cell phones...
And, while we're cluttering things up w/ a useless rant and rave thread, I'd like to add a couple other annoyances that have caused me to step away somewhat: rant/ asking a question like "Will this work on my phone?" or "How do I flash this?" and when someone asks a question that was answered in the OP. /endrant
Yes. The best way to search xda is Google. Type what u want or need and then type "xda" after it. Works everytime. No excuse
Uncle Jimmy says hello
VisedMonk said:
or mod. I mean, many times the question and answer was literally on the previous page. That isn't xda's horrible search function (which isn't too bad to search w/in an individual thread, but is really bad for an entire forum), that's laziness. /endrant
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Still, a lot of those ROM threads are hundreds of pages long...everyone is supposed to read through hundreds of pages before posting?? For example, Myn's Warn twopoint two thread for the Evo has over 42,000 replies. That is 4247 pages! CyanogenMod 7 has over 10,000 replies.
Anyway, that is my last contribution to this thread. Good luck guys.
I understand that with there being cdma and gsm versions of this phone that it will add to the confusion. I've seen a lot of people flashing the wrong thing for their phone and almost killing it. I know I am forgetful but I don't remember seeing this much screwing up of a phone with the old phones and sections I used to hang out in.
I understand the frustration of the OP. But it is what it is. I just keep answering the sane questions over and over as nicely as I can.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Well, I guess, patience is what we need
This is what forum intended for. Helping them out as much as we can.
It's tiring to reply the same question over and over again,
but it's fun at the same time
Personally, I really like to help those people who are in trouble,
as I was one of the trouble guy before when I first got my Nexus S
Helping one another is great.
Suggestion: Why not you gather all the question you answer, and create a FAQ post,
this would help a lot in our forum (According to the post number you had, 8xx, you should be able to write a thousand Q&A I guess )
Just try to remember a few things.
What may appear to be a dumb question to you, to the person asking it may be very important.
There is really no such thing as a dumb question. Only dumb answers.
I find myself remembering those 2 things in life and think they serve good purpose. If the little things in life eat ya up you won't enjoy the good things life offers. Its not worth the energy. Just skip em and look for something important to read
ronnienyc said:
Still, a lot of those ROM threads are hundreds of pages long...everyone is supposed to read through hundreds of pages before posting?? For example, Myn's Warn twopoint two thread for the Evo has over 42,000 replies. That is 4247 pages! CyanogenMod 7 has over 10,000 replies.
Anyway, that is my last contribution to this thread. Good luck guys.
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I feel the same way.
honestly, i get more annoyed at people whining and trolling at ppl asking questions.
not joking, and this isnt meant to jest at anyone.
yes ignorant and lazy people are blah, but sometimes you just can't quite find what your looking for, or its faster and time is of the essence to ask the question...there are alot of things, and alot of reason's, and alot of people that need answers.
I always feel that if you can't be bothered helping someone, don't, but when people go, oh jeez just search, don't answer, but are eager enough to spout off, or 10000x more worthless than the people asking the question even if they are lazy and ignorant.
because that person is lazy, ignorant, and a jerk.
Alanmw86 said:
honestly, i get more annoyed at people whining and trolling at ppl asking questions.
not joking, and this isnt meant to jest at anyone.
yes ignorant and lazy people are blah, but sometimes you just can't quite find what your looking for, or its faster and time is of the essence to ask the question...there are alot of things, and alot of reason's, and alot of people that need answers.
I always feel that if you can't be bothered helping someone, don't, but when people go, oh jeez just search, don't answer, but are eager enough to spout off, or 10000x more worthless than the people asking the question even if they are lazy and ignorant.
because that person is lazy, ignorant, and a jerk.
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+1
Need help? Post.
Give help? Post.
Anything else? Just don't post. Just don't do it.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
This is a smartphone comunity, people come here to ask for help, it's the main reason this forum exists and this is a fact. New comers will always make a new thread instead of searching for their answer.
With no offense to anyone but if you can't stand that maybe this isn't the right place to spend your nights.
lvnatic said:
This is a smartphone comunity, people come here to ask for help, it's the main reason this forum exists and this is a fact. New comers will always make a new thread instead of searching for their answer.
With no offense to anyone but if you can't stand that maybe this isn't the right place to spend your nights.
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Agree +1 +1
I should add that I've worked as a Customer facing service/sales rep for the last 10 years.
So I'm used to getting the same question over and over, and I honestly enjoy getting a question I know vs something I have to figure out haha.
Challenges can be fun sometimes.
But honestly by your theory no one should ever ask question's unless they are breaking completely new ground (which almost doesn't exist) because the info's already out there, so next time you ask a question, punch yourself in the face for us Mr.Knowitall because you could have just found the answer somewhere else.
or maybe you could just realize thats how we learn, and when we learn our knowledge gets spread, its one of the most important things in life, get over it.
Haven't you ever been going down the road and asked yourself, man, whats the speed limit here, even tho there was a sign that freaking told you just back there 100 feet..... next time instead of asking that question, or moving forward to find out, turn around instead and go read it, seems logical ay?
I've never understood why this bothers so many people. It's a website... it's the internet... they are phones. You guys really get upset? Sounds overly sensitive to me. Either answer the question or dont. It's quite simple. We are all here to help and learn. There isn't a place for rudeness when people are asking genuine questions. Well... at least there shouldn't be. Should people search? Sure.... but some dont. It's not that serious.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.
So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!
eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?
WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:
Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?