Related
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Let people say whatever they like!
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Well said. This is the worst forum I've ever come across for noob bashing. It's a shame because there are a lot of helpful people here.
The odd post I have had to make asking for help took me 30 mins or so of searching just to make sure it's not been covered before, for fear of getting jumped on by the resident 'net police'.
By the way, if this subject has come up before, I don't care because I didn't search so there!
I agree. Isn't a forum supossed to be just that, a place where people can come to ask questions even though there is a wiki, search, etc?
HEAR HEAR!!!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
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Well put j1ngles!!! I never had this newbie bashing in the Wizard forum, which I joined almost 2 years ago.
This is the worst forum for n00b bashing this side of the whirlpool galaxy!!!
I agree 110%. If people ask "stupid" questions and someone feels obliged to assist, then by all means do so or shut up.
I have helped n00bs by providing certain cabs etc and then I have been criticised!!!
Good point here - I do believe that one of the mods has actually issued a warning against n00b bashing, so that's a step in the right direction.
Totally agree with you.
The search function is useful, but if you are new how are you supposed to know the exact techie term to make the search results useful?! Who knows how many budding chefs etc we are turning away becuz someone jumps on their back within 2 minutes giving them a hard time?
We're all here becuz we want to learn, and develop our devices into something different and better, so lets try to support each other and be gentle on the new guys.
Well said!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
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I fully agree with you j1ngles!!!
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
A good point very well made.
If you don't want to help someone out fine , just don't post a reply. Better that than to ridicule someone and put them off posting again.
I have +170 posts and still feel like a noob. if search does not give me the answer i am looking for after 5 attempts (or 30 minutes of crawling through plenty of mails) i do ask help. And i also got replies not being helpfull.
This is not about noob bashing
Shadowdh said:
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
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I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
We need to teach people to learn by encouragement, not by attitude.
ghostie said:
I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
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I've always favoured giving someone the link, while telling them they could (and should) have searched for it themselves. I also agree with some flaming on obvious or very frequent questions - provided the link is there and the flaming is amusing and light-hearted.
Just my opinion.
I made a similar point a few months back. Another problem is that noobies don't always know what to search for...Because they are noobies...
j1ngles said:
All,
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
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Click to collapse
I couldnt agree more with this. I really dont see why an experienced senior member, for example, has to flame a noobie for asking a silly easy question. Either you have a few words to say and shread some light into matter, or just skip the thread, go read something else. I know some of them are ignorant, but the best treatment is to ignore questions like that. This way they will have to search for themselves, if they get no answer.
But to tell them: read wiki, search, use google is simply too useless, will not help anybody.
I understand both sides, but you have to see that once you see a trillion questions asking the same thing, then you get a little frustrated.
I dont think XDA is a service. XDA is a community where people have to do their part, and if you dont do your part, then your not contributing to the community. And yes, searching is contribution. You are gorging yourself in PDA knoweldge and then could help someone else.
However, if you feel that people here at XDA are here to help you becuase this is their job, then your wrong. I'm not saying you, or anyone else does feel this way, but my point is that XDA is not a service, its a community.
I've found the dutty thread to be useless now because of so many questions asking the same thing. There is an onslaught of many questions that were already answered and its hard to find the specific problem your having. I still LOOK, and I still search...and I find the answer.
Though I do agree, being a ***** never did anything for anyone. So the best anyone can do is point them in the right direction until they get it themselves.
If everyone post any question they want to ask without searching, we'll probably end up having 25k pages in every thread. The whole point of searching is to keep forums tidy, so that information can be found faster.
Have you ever tried to find some specific thingsin big DUMP??? (Not a rom dump)
Very True
I agree with the starter of the topic. So you say using search keeps the Forum tidy. I don't agree. The Forum is already full of huge topics and nobody has to have the patience to go through them. HOWEVER, I personally SEARCHED A LOT for some stuff and I usually FOUND what I was looking for. So I admit that it's ok to search! ::- ). But a bit more tolerance for those who don't have this time would be great.
Maybe I just bought a phone and I'm uber-enthusiastic about it and don't want to search 2 days for something. Common, a bit of understanding never killed anybody ::- ). And if there are a lot of topics about a certain problem, they'll show up faster in search, so it's ok. Common, a bit more text never killed a database.
This is a fair point and I would agree - generally speaking a policy of ignore it and move on is best.
However, I have seen instances of people who ought to know better blundering into a thread and asking a question to which they would get an answer if they could just be bothered to look a handful of posts further up.
Not all newcomers are sweet innocents and not all stupid questions are asked by newcomers.
My personal annoyance list is topped by those that ask a tough or poorly defined question and then start stamping their tiny feet if they don't get an answer back within seconds of posting - some people here seem to think this is a formal support forum for 'XDA products', (whatever those might be) and so start *****ing about bugs, lack of response, etc.
Did you ever stop to think that all the people with your point of view are the reason for the search function not being as productive as other sites? When someone doesn't search and just creates another redundant thread, they are directly responsible for polluting the search results.
As I have said before, I will no longer be bashing n00bs who fail to search before posting. Instead, I will transpose their question into Google, and reply back with a link to the search result they need to read. There is one exception to this; people who create 2 or more new threads (within 24 hours) asking the exact same question. That is just rude.
whats some good programs to install?
Um well....... what do you want to do? Are you going to flash a new ROM? What are you using the phone for? These are the questions I have for you. Without knowing that we can't tell you what to look for.
sigh.. just go to the site in my sig, tailored just for you.
And before you post on xda again please read the rules and guidelines first.
Click my sig, i got hundreds of cabs.
I know the OP asked when he could have searched...
But i am in the same boat and was also wondering what everyone is using. His question (and the replies with apps in the sigs) is going to make my life better too
So thanks OP for asking a disliked but useful question....
Dillsnik said:
asking a disliked but useful question....
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for the 10^10000000000th time.
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
Signal to noise ratio, man. The fewer redundant threads, the fewer months it takes someone to get the same knowledge and tools from xda forums for their phone.
I had no problem answering his question (hell I spent countless hours designing a website to accommodate people in his shoes) and I'm sorry if I came off as bitter but the rules make sense to the people who made the rules and to me and especially to those reading the forums on their phones with a browser or RSS.
Think of Slashdot. There by default you wouldn't see things like this as they would get moderated below the default threshold. If you're so inclined, you can modify the threshold up or down or order the posts in various directions. That makes Slashdot a lot better than it used to be before they coded that. But wouldn't it be nice if XDA could continue to get away without needing the forum equivalent of that kind of system if people would just post properly and when newcomers do not that they are advised to check the rules (and, in this case, their questions get answered too)?
And yes, because of this thread a bunch of people are getting cabs they didn't have from various sigs and now that this is turning into a debate a lot more people will get cabs. But would you not agree now that we are both right? Or do you truly not mind the boards being flooded with the same questions the wiki and searching satisfies? Not to mention spam and people trying to sell their phones. Signal to noise ratio.
Doug
Dillsnik said:
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
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I think for some it's just a matter of frustration. I've been guilty of it myself, and got my hand slapped by the mods in Q&A for an inappropriate flame. Speaking for myself, I first joined a little over a year ago and read everything available. This allowed me to avoid asking questions that had already been answered. I'd hazard to guess that the "ask first and search later" approach is viewed by some as intellectually lazy. I can also see the other side that you point out. This site can be very intimidating and some people may just not know what to look for -- especially if they're new to WinMo. I've now adopted a no-flame approach (don't want to get slapped again). I'm certainly no expert, but I occasionally can provide an answer or suggestion, even if it's nothing other than providing a link to the appropriate thread. I figure it's the least I can do for all the great help I've received here.
d0ugie said:
Signal to noise ratio, man.
Doug
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Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Hey thanks for backing me up. Heh, the Dude.
Glad you got good use out of the site! And guess what, you can get even more out of it because I got your default rings (HTC's and MS's) in the first paragraph of section 9, notifications.
Doug
@D0ugie
First off, i didn't think your reply was too negative. You just pointed out that people should search first and ask later, which i agree with. I think in my mind it's the level of grey that exists with the "search first" motto that is debatable. I have spent a LOT of time in some instances searching for a needle in a haystack, sometimes in fear of knowing that if i pose a new thread for a quick answer i might get flamed for it. And there are times when i asked before i probably should have (had one of those the other day) and felt like an idiot for it. And then there are the times where i was looking for something but maybe didn't even know it, and had someone else ask it and be like, wow that is exactly what i wanted to know. And then there are still the times where i asked a Q and wasn't sure if it was a good question and whether or not i'd even get a reply, and had a huge discussion evolve because of it and lots of people glad i did ask.
Obviously, the repeat of the same question over and over can make it harder to find the BEST answers, but sometimes i will search and not find that right thread and then someone points me to it and i am like, that just saved me SO much unnecessary searching, THANK YOU.
The bottom line though is i love this community and, in general, everyone here is amazing and so helpful and giving. I feel lucky to be a part of it and wish i was a better developer and had more to contribute.
Why So Serious?
meth0dGSX said:
Why So Serious?
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@you lol. Perfect time to add that
@OP You could search the Raphael software/Diamond Themes, Applications, and Software/Developement & Hacking which are sections specially made for app posting.
EDITED, sorry if I offended anyone.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Funny i was looking for the Dude trying to get a little Time of from XDA and accidentally used the Google XDA search. This was the only result.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825531964825142534%3Acqr2sjirilw&q=the+big+lebowski&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I didn't know that until i accidentally searched for it.
Well for those in the Dark here's the Short Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqtgfjkB6Pg
Please delete me when the fun's gotten out of it, but at least XDA should get back two search results from now on, on The Big Lebowksi
In two weeks:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...esult&cd=1&q=Noonski+the+big+lebowski&spell=1
Should give you at least one result on finding out my true identity.
A few posts deleted, that is already more then any of us would have wanted on a Forum meant to harbour information.
Don't Flame a man trying to show you the light of XDA, it attracts to much attention of Moderators even when they are trying not to.
If you go to my 4shared, you can find pretty much any application that will do whatever you want on your WinMo based phone.
When I first got my ns4g, I was into being active in this forum section. I would help out people with their questions or problems. Then I noticed things becoming monotonous very quickly. What I saw was many different people asking questions or having problems with stuff that had already been answered or solved in posts elsewhere many times over. I began being irritated by this and would sometimes lay into them or be very sarcastic. After that, I stopped posting anything because I got to the point where I wanted to yell at them for not looking around and the answer was right around the corner and I was tired of saying "look here (link)".
I know I can't be the only one like this. Anyone else care to share their frustrations about this?
Maybe I'm getting old or burnt out.
its apart of the deal of helping others out. think of it as if you're working at customer service, you'd encounter this problem on a daily basis. ive helped a lot of people on the NS forum and i know how you feel
I think the main issue is the poor search results.
Use the search tool and you have to either plow through tens of thousands of non-helpful results, or you post a question in a new thread.
Anyway, a thread like this which just going to be complaints is not very helpful either. You could have added your statement to the end of another thread about repetitive questions...Instead, you started a new thread.
What you probably need to do is step away from the forums and get some fresh air ;-)
This post wasn't intended to help, it was intended to vent frustration and confirm I wasn't the only one occasionally losing my mind.
Customer service...... I pondered that thought for a minute and remembered a story I read years ago. It was the one where the help center guy told the customer to pack up the computer and send it back because they were too stupid to use a computer.
Oh well, at least I just made myself laugh.
I know how you feel. When I first joined xda (in my evo days) I was very involved with helping others out, etc. The useless questions annoyed me, but what really got to me is when people would ask the same questions within a thread for a rom, kernel, or mod. I mean, many times the question and answer was literally on the previous page. That isn't xda's horrible search function (which isn't too bad to search w/in an individual thread, but is really bad for an entire forum), that's laziness.
So I just stepped away a bit. I mean, for God's sake, these ARE just cell phones...
And, while we're cluttering things up w/ a useless rant and rave thread, I'd like to add a couple other annoyances that have caused me to step away somewhat: rant/ asking a question like "Will this work on my phone?" or "How do I flash this?" and when someone asks a question that was answered in the OP. /endrant
Yes. The best way to search xda is Google. Type what u want or need and then type "xda" after it. Works everytime. No excuse
Uncle Jimmy says hello
VisedMonk said:
or mod. I mean, many times the question and answer was literally on the previous page. That isn't xda's horrible search function (which isn't too bad to search w/in an individual thread, but is really bad for an entire forum), that's laziness. /endrant
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Still, a lot of those ROM threads are hundreds of pages long...everyone is supposed to read through hundreds of pages before posting?? For example, Myn's Warn twopoint two thread for the Evo has over 42,000 replies. That is 4247 pages! CyanogenMod 7 has over 10,000 replies.
Anyway, that is my last contribution to this thread. Good luck guys.
I understand that with there being cdma and gsm versions of this phone that it will add to the confusion. I've seen a lot of people flashing the wrong thing for their phone and almost killing it. I know I am forgetful but I don't remember seeing this much screwing up of a phone with the old phones and sections I used to hang out in.
I understand the frustration of the OP. But it is what it is. I just keep answering the sane questions over and over as nicely as I can.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Well, I guess, patience is what we need
This is what forum intended for. Helping them out as much as we can.
It's tiring to reply the same question over and over again,
but it's fun at the same time
Personally, I really like to help those people who are in trouble,
as I was one of the trouble guy before when I first got my Nexus S
Helping one another is great.
Suggestion: Why not you gather all the question you answer, and create a FAQ post,
this would help a lot in our forum (According to the post number you had, 8xx, you should be able to write a thousand Q&A I guess )
Just try to remember a few things.
What may appear to be a dumb question to you, to the person asking it may be very important.
There is really no such thing as a dumb question. Only dumb answers.
I find myself remembering those 2 things in life and think they serve good purpose. If the little things in life eat ya up you won't enjoy the good things life offers. Its not worth the energy. Just skip em and look for something important to read
ronnienyc said:
Still, a lot of those ROM threads are hundreds of pages long...everyone is supposed to read through hundreds of pages before posting?? For example, Myn's Warn twopoint two thread for the Evo has over 42,000 replies. That is 4247 pages! CyanogenMod 7 has over 10,000 replies.
Anyway, that is my last contribution to this thread. Good luck guys.
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I feel the same way.
honestly, i get more annoyed at people whining and trolling at ppl asking questions.
not joking, and this isnt meant to jest at anyone.
yes ignorant and lazy people are blah, but sometimes you just can't quite find what your looking for, or its faster and time is of the essence to ask the question...there are alot of things, and alot of reason's, and alot of people that need answers.
I always feel that if you can't be bothered helping someone, don't, but when people go, oh jeez just search, don't answer, but are eager enough to spout off, or 10000x more worthless than the people asking the question even if they are lazy and ignorant.
because that person is lazy, ignorant, and a jerk.
Alanmw86 said:
honestly, i get more annoyed at people whining and trolling at ppl asking questions.
not joking, and this isnt meant to jest at anyone.
yes ignorant and lazy people are blah, but sometimes you just can't quite find what your looking for, or its faster and time is of the essence to ask the question...there are alot of things, and alot of reason's, and alot of people that need answers.
I always feel that if you can't be bothered helping someone, don't, but when people go, oh jeez just search, don't answer, but are eager enough to spout off, or 10000x more worthless than the people asking the question even if they are lazy and ignorant.
because that person is lazy, ignorant, and a jerk.
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+1
Need help? Post.
Give help? Post.
Anything else? Just don't post. Just don't do it.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
This is a smartphone comunity, people come here to ask for help, it's the main reason this forum exists and this is a fact. New comers will always make a new thread instead of searching for their answer.
With no offense to anyone but if you can't stand that maybe this isn't the right place to spend your nights.
lvnatic said:
This is a smartphone comunity, people come here to ask for help, it's the main reason this forum exists and this is a fact. New comers will always make a new thread instead of searching for their answer.
With no offense to anyone but if you can't stand that maybe this isn't the right place to spend your nights.
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Agree +1 +1
I should add that I've worked as a Customer facing service/sales rep for the last 10 years.
So I'm used to getting the same question over and over, and I honestly enjoy getting a question I know vs something I have to figure out haha.
Challenges can be fun sometimes.
But honestly by your theory no one should ever ask question's unless they are breaking completely new ground (which almost doesn't exist) because the info's already out there, so next time you ask a question, punch yourself in the face for us Mr.Knowitall because you could have just found the answer somewhere else.
or maybe you could just realize thats how we learn, and when we learn our knowledge gets spread, its one of the most important things in life, get over it.
Haven't you ever been going down the road and asked yourself, man, whats the speed limit here, even tho there was a sign that freaking told you just back there 100 feet..... next time instead of asking that question, or moving forward to find out, turn around instead and go read it, seems logical ay?
I've never understood why this bothers so many people. It's a website... it's the internet... they are phones. You guys really get upset? Sounds overly sensitive to me. Either answer the question or dont. It's quite simple. We are all here to help and learn. There isn't a place for rudeness when people are asking genuine questions. Well... at least there shouldn't be. Should people search? Sure.... but some dont. It's not that serious.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.
So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!
eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?
WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:
Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?
So... Sometimes I think to myself why basically no developers care about us anymore.. I came up with an idea pretty quick.. We are annoying most of the time to them. Especially the people to ask questions without just looking through the threads a bit. Obviously they have no experience forum hunting. I haven't had that much experience myself with forums, but it does not take long before we see the downside of our community. The people who post the most on XDA are Forum peeps.. second.. newbs... Sometimes I consider myself one for I feel sorry doing that for questions so dumb, but that was before I learned google doesn't really work through XDA forums that much. You google GS4 MF3 Recovery Bounty and it shows the wrong post on the top. The right post that you'd be interested in is a few links down. But I learned that lesson.
My question to the community, is why do we bother with people like this? The second someone has a serious post about anything, a newb comes along and says "PLEASE RELEASE THE MF3 RECOVERY>> OMG>>...." Those guys should be banned... and I see that way to often... (sadly I see it more in the Jailbreak for iphone more) but it is still in this forum too. Reason for this is probably really simple. This forum has gotten to be the most popular android related forum existing. Everyone that roots their phone has heard of XDA. So... what happens when one of those 14 year old root consumers has a problem? They (hopefully) google it.. then runs into the stupid google problem with XDA for unrelated crap, then posts directly here. Then we come along and say "if you would have looked, it's right in this thread, and everyone has that problem, so don't complain". I have a little sympathy for them, but after a while, those same people become those people who just scan the forums every day for some news of a possible MF3 Exploit, then one they see a serious post, they might think SOMETHINGS BEING DONE!!!......... Ugh... Huge sigh there.
So.. what could we do about it? One, we could ask google to fix their results to be more relevant for us.. but that may or may not ever happen. What else? We could just not let newbs post anywhere for the first day, only in Q&A threads the next weeks, then everything else after 2 months, that gives them enough time to learn that your exploit may never come.. especially if people like them do what they do every day. That won't get rid of everything. Especially on the Q&A, but it would keep the serious threads not kept in the Q&A thread relevant and less of a chance of newbs coming and replying. This is more an idea for the Mod's/Admins to consider, just more strict of a new user system.
Those intentions are only to relieve some of the bad feelings most hacker/devs have here, like DjrBliss. He flat out just dropped out of the forum a little after he released his Loki. And he's having a great time over on the moto x conversations you hear him have on twitter.
That's all I have to say for now.. And this is only my opinion on matters, may not be yours, so.. ya.
Have a good rest of the day you all
Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.
Cool story, bro. Take the Google search course if you're having problems searching. Here's a hint. Google "your subject xda" You'll get the hits your looking for first.
agent929 said:
Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.
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Yup your probably right there.. Well My ideas were somewhat close..