Database Info

Rooting for n00bs!

This is NOT, and I repeat NOT a guide for rooting. It is a warning. Helpful advice if you will. It is here to deter you from making your life as well as those here who help others a nightmare. We are here to help those who want to help themselves. As mentioned in another thread, this forum is here to HELP people. This advice is here to help as helping also includes prevention. The advice below is for the sole purpose of preventing those who don't know what they're doing from bricking their devices prematurely.
If you don't like my advice or my opinion; that is your given right. Remember the forum rules and keep it impersonal, clean and respectful.
I am here to help people and if that includes encouraging members to learn first before they do harm to their device then so be it. If I can prevent even one person from ruining their phone before they learn how to use it then I accomplished something.
Note: Whosdaman; please feel free to move this to whatever section you feel this better fits in. I took a shot putting it here.
Disclaimer/Advice/Humble Opinion:
My advice (without trying to hurt anyone's feelings too much) is DON'T ROOT. I would suggest you familiarize yourself with everything (Linux, ADB, XDA, Google) before diving in head first.
Despite popular belief, having root does NOT in fact make you cooler.
Way too many new users are trying to root because they think it's cool or heard it's cool. Well; it's not cool to be a n00b and attempt root. You need to learn your device first.
If you don't know how to perform a Nandroid backup, or restore a previous ROM backup, flash updates, install custom ROM's, boot into Safe mode, Mount R/W, run shell commands or Terminal Emulator etc, then you should NOT root. You should browse the forums here, read, read and re-read everything until you know it well. Google search related topics. Exhaust all available avenues, then ask questions. After you've executed all of these options you might consider rooting and starting to tinker with your device.
If you don't even know what some of the things are that were mentioned, then you should absolutely NOT root your phone. You will likely brick or screw up your phone and then be right back here asking for help in a new thread most definitely created by you out of haste or costing [insert phone manufacturer/carrier here] money by sending your phone back and asking for a replacement simply because you had no idea what you were doing. JMHO
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
/*
* Rooting voids your warranty.
*/
Again, this is not here to offend anyone's sensitivity or hurt your feelings. Many have argued that bricking and recovery is the way they learn. That's fine [for them]. I highly doubt those same people started running before walking, or walking before crawling. But the majority of people need to learn first. Preventing someone from ruining their device is MY best advice.

I didn't know android had a safe mode.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

bubonik said:
I didn't know android had a safe mode.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.) Power Off>remove battery>WAIT for at least two minutes.
2.) Power On Phone while Holding MENU key until you get to the lock screen>At the bottom left corner of the display in transparent text will be the words "Safe Mode"
When in safe mode, Android does not load any third-party apps, and you can uninstall the application that gave you trouble from Settings > Applications > Manage applications.
To exit Safe Mode:
1.) Power off phone again>remove battery>wait two minutes
2.) Do a normal power on ...

So after reading this I still couldn't figure out how to get this root stuff you were talking about. I don't know what this "search" or "google" is. But if this makes me cool then I'm all about it- maybe I could get a girlfriend finally.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

WHY?
The advice, while a successful deterrent, is not very useful. If people are here on this website, chances are they are here to learn something new about how to improve or customize their phones. We were all noobs at one point in time an I know that I benfited greatly from all the guides and reference threads here. Why not post some links to some helpful threads and say "Read these BEFORE you try anything," not "Don't try it at all and if you want to do it, find your own way to." Just a thought.

t-mo123 said:
If people are here on this website, chances are they are here to learn something new about how to improve or customize their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is exactly my advice. LEARN FIRST. Browse through the threads and see how many are beginners who jumped too soon and are now asking for help. It's ridiculous. If you don't like my advice move on and troll another thread. Many here agree with what I've suggested. Take it or leave it.
In my experience, the ones who have a problem with this are the ones who are guilty of it. People who want to be 'cool' and root without learning then clutter the forums begging for help.

Honestly I think you're making a sweeping generalization assuming that anyone who roots their phone without reading everything there is to read first is just trying to be "cool".
Granted, there are a lot of folks out there that could stand to take a lesson or two in common sense, but I don't think it does anyone any good to tell all the "n00bs" to essentially eff off until they've done more research than I think most people on this forum who've successfully rooted would normally do.
There are numerous disclaimers that tell people to stay away from rooting unless they either know what they're doing or are willing to take a risk, and there are numerous people who learn by doing rather than reading.
In fact I would venture a guess that, were people to subscribe to your suggestion, this forum and indeed the entire Android dev ecosphere would suffer greatly, because many devs learn by tweaking and fixing... usually something that they themselves broke!
I don't ask that you change your opinion. Simply that you ask yourself what you really hope to accomplish with this post. It would seem to me that the people you hope to deter would just be insulted and ignore it.
As a previous poster had mentioned, it would be more convincing if you provided resource links to help educate those you are trying to reach.
Also, before you sling that "troll" moniker my way as you did a previous poster, you might do well to remember that just as you have the right to post your opinion, others have the right to disagree.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

well sir, maybe some of us noobs got tired of not being able to use any apps over wifi on our blackberry without data a blackberry plan and bought an android phone so we can have more freedom.
maybe some of us noobs are diving into rooting so we can use setpcu and squeeze more than the stock 2 hour heavy use we get from a stock MT4G
maybe some of us want to learn more about the system but we ask so many questions because we dont know where to get VISIONary plus since its no longer in the market place.
i dunno about other noobs but a thread with links to what to read to learn more is way more beneficial to me than this one telling me to stay out the circle of android trust.
perhaps you are the one who thinks being rooted is "cool"?(no disrespect meant)
some of us do really want to learn and we appreciate every help and every answer we get to our questions from you veterans.
so please have a little patience and/or noob tolerance. someday we'll learn and stop asking the same question that had been answered a doze times already

A simple Google search turned up 302,000 for Visionary. Maybe if you stopped and thought before you posted you might have better results.
Again, this thread wasn't meant to hurt anyone's sensitive feelings [as it seems it has]. It was meant to deter new members/rookies from diving into something before they learned it. Obviously with the new breed of youngsters these days that just isn't the case. Common sense seems to have taken a back door to rushed gratification. Intelligent strategy is how many of us learned, not jumping in and screwing things up.
By jumping in and messing things up, you not only make things harder on yourselves but waste our time helping with things that have been answered a thousand times and a simple search would have taught you that.
As with anything in life, you need to 'learn' before you do something. Cognitive retention is key to mastering anything.
Your logic of diving in without thought or regard for yourself or others that will end up helping you is almost insulting. You will find that many of the longtime users/devs/veterans here enjoy helping people who take precautions and want to help themselves. But almost none of them/us really care to help those who jump blindly.
JMHO. Take it however you like. And you don't need to take it from me; just try and get help in here when you do something dumb and see how much help you get from senior members.

CBConsultation said:
A simple Google search turned up 302,000 for Visionary. Maybe if you stopped and thought before you posted you might have better results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what you did there, but I just did a simple google search for Visionary and got "About 9,880,000 results (0.11 seconds)"
Maybe your google fu is weak or something..
On another note back on topic, I couldn't disagree more with your OP.. As a newb I think diving right in is the best thing to do to learn.. I Can read a wiki for hours about a phone, but that doesn't give you the same experience of 10 minutes hands on does..
My biggest suggestion to a newb to this **** is dont start with a high end device.. Buy a HTC Wizard or Excalibur off craigslist & play with & tweak them 1st.. Then maybe a g1 or something.. That way if you do **** up & brick your device your not toast..
IMHO there is no better way to learn something then to do it.. But also when you have problems, don't think your unique & that nobody has ever posted your question before, Search for it 1st & then only post asking for help if you cant find it..

bastage said:
.. But also when you have problems, don't think your unique & that nobody has ever posted your question before, Search for it 1st & then only post asking for help if you cant find it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And search further then the first page.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

I think I'll leave it in here, maybe even sticky it later

CB, while I can understand your frustration I believe your attitude could be seen as elitist.
I think that perhaps what we should be doing is trying to come up with a root cause solution that might work instead of telling people not to try something like rooting. As another poster implied, it's not that people shouldn't be rooting, but that they shouldn't be asking questions for which there are already answers.
This seems like the problem you're trying to address, not the problem of someone rooting their phone or not.
So let's put aside the discussion of how one learns and who has the right to root and focus on the issue of "inappropriate" posts.
Does that sound like a reasonable alternative?
Hopefully whatever comes out of this discussion could be used to improve the forum experience for everyone.
I should mention that I'm not really sure this thread should be in the dev section of the forum... Seems more like general discussion since the OP is more of an ideological opinion piece at this point.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

OP, does your soapbox come with a salad? Someone likes to hear himself talk...sheesh.
Swyped on my rooted MyTouch4G

viper3ez said:
well sir, maybe some of us noobs got tired of not being able to use any apps over wifi on our blackberry without data a blackberry plan and bought an android phone so we can have more freedom.
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Click to collapse
As much as I HATE blackberries, I have to correct you. You do NOT need a data feature to use web over wifi on a Blackberry. How the hell would that make sense, seriously? But yes keep in mind, I am still not a BB fan lol, hate those pieces of crap.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

yo
so im not cool?

teamsilence said:
so im not cool?
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You're still cool in my book.

teamsilence said:
so im not cool?
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Click to collapse
Your the bee's knees! Lol
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

teamsilence said:
so im not cool?
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Click to collapse
Your so cool your like an iced glacier.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

CBConsultation said:
A simple Google search turned up 302,000 for Visionary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good lord, does anyone here actually have the time to go through 302.000 pages? Maybe I am the only one who has kids and a wife, but I know I don't have time to take a freaking computer programing course to teach myself how to use freaking cmnd lines. The crap I have seen on different forums that walk people through different rooting procedures on different phones acts as though everyone know WTF they are doing and/or has the time to spend hours a day learning. Guess what? Not everyone does. I spend hours a day teaching people the basics of how to use their phones and I have to give directions my grandmother could follow, is it to much to ask for detailed instruction that someone who has a very basic understanding of how to use these phones could follow? I don't think so. If you "seniors" could realize that you aren't cooler because you know what you are doing, and did the responsible thing and shared your knowledge without *****ing, moaning, and complaining about n00bs, you could help more n00bs become 'seniors' themselves and have more people out there able to help others.

Where is the love?

It seems lately there has been alot of negativity towards people asking questions. There have been far too many replies to questions with people complaining about the question, and the complaint takes longer to post than the answer. If you don't want to answer someones question, don't open the thread!! This is supposed to be a friendly, helpful community. There will always be different levels of experience. There is not 1 person on this forum that has never experienced the panic factor when they thought they messed up their phone. Let's keep that in mind when someone asks a question without doing an extensive search first.
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?

Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+10,000
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yes that's true and all but the OP has a point when he said everyone has that panic attack and doesnt bother looking before posting I mean seriously when you think your really screwed over and may have just wasted $400 I know now I'd probably look first but when I first started out with my good ol G1 I flipped **** man! Its still bricked, sitting in a shelf somewhere. But I became more experienced as I moved from MT3G to MT4G so yea noobs to forums will always be an issue here I mean really in what forum aren't they? But its better to be supportive than criticize the new Guy with a broken phone by saying 'go look in this thread or this or this or this' I mean it just makes em feel bad. This is hypocritical since I know I have a few posts criticizing noons on here for posting but whatever it happens.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

I agree with people generally needing to read up on as much as they can, especially when they're starting with android and/or rooting, but I will say there's something nice about having a chat about your particular situation. Reading an old thread often has useful information, but I could definitely see how a poster might need/want more specific, personalized advice that meets whatever issue they're having head-on. And often, I know I've been researching a particular issue, will find old threads on it, but still need additional clarification.
Obviously, people should be able to help themselves as much as possible - but in the end, that's why this is a forum, and not a tech blog, so that people CAN have discourse about common areas of interest and, hopefully, help one another out.

lowandbehold said:
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?
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Click to collapse
Okay i wasn't going to say a damn thing till i saw this line.
You are 100% correct we are not officially the Android Police or Phone Police. However neither are you. WE are not telling people what to do with their devices. We are simply throwing up road blocks. As if to say....
do not proceed the bridge is out
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Click to collapse
and you you keep on going and ignore the blatant warnings and crash and burn you shouldn't come here crying that you jacked something. On the same note we did not force you to do anything to your phone. No one from XDA held a Glock 19 and uttered the words " ROOT YOUR MUTHA EFFING PHONE OR WE KILL YOU".... you chose to do it willingly. And you should be man enough to say well i screwed my phone and i need to fix it.
9/10 people here will answer the question at hand. regardless of its "how do i root my phone", "how do i flash an image" or what ever else have you. but it someone has a low post count we will absolutely throw warnings out there. Android devices are mini Linux Computers. Now i do not claim to be a *UNIX guru, nor do i claim to be an Android guru, but i've seen enough people to brick their phones do routine things to know better......
I joined XDA because i was tired of the drama on Android Central and Cracberry's Android section. I wanted to find a good group of guys with similar interest, with similar phones and the exact same motto.
Someone once helped me with Android, and i feel i need to do the same.
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and i found XDA, i lurked for a while and thought this a good place to be....
just because you see "negative comments" doesn't mean we don't have the best intent in our hearts. We just understand what can come with things are done incorrectly.
And to finish up to answer your question "where is the love", sometimes the best love one can show is tough love, it might not appear to be there now, but down the road.... well hind sight is always 20/20.

I've struggled conceptually countless times on these forums and people have been gracious enough to help me out, but the couple of times I thought I might have actually messed up my phone the first thought that entered my head wasn't "OH SH!T, let me write an incoherent post in the first forum i see and wait for my savior," it was "you idiot, you read about this possibility and now you have a worthless piece of electronics, maybe next time you won't be so stupid." I then researched my issue and, luckily, found a solution. You can learn how to do ANYTHING on the internet these days, that's the beauty of global communication. I just think most people get frustrated when someone asks another to take time out of their day to assist them when it is clear by their post that they didn't even take the time to help themselves, you know?
No one here has a problem with helping someone out; that is clear by sheer number of question posts that get answered daily- especially when people follow the forum guidelines and at least attempt to present their issue with as much detail as possible. It's the "SOMEONE HELP ME CLOCKWORK BROKE MY PHONE" posted in the development section that cause more trouble than anything.

Just like there were many threads complaining about people not answering questions or being hostile to newbs.
Here's the very basic explanation on how to not make an ass out of yourself and save us all from answering the same thing over and over again:
1. Read BEFORE you do something
2. Read and UNDERSTAND what you're about to do, again, BEFORE you do it.
3. If anything goes wrong - take a step back to think what you did, have a smoke/drink/whatever you do and relax. Search for an answer on similar situation, bet you money it has been answered before. If all fails, write up well-organized, informative post with all info (what you had, what you did and what happened) and be patient. 5 threads within 2 hrs will not get you any farther.
Good luck to all.

People dont mind helping or answering questions its just that no one honestly reads before posting. 9 out of 10 questions have answers within the forum.
Sent From My Evil Glacier Using Xda Premium App.

Charle is 100% percent correct in his statement. In all honesty all the information for rooting, flashing recovery, custom roms are in the development section under the rom bible in the development section. The hard part has already been done for us.

I 100% agree that you should read ALOT before deciding to root. I read everything and watched videos for over a week before deciding to root.
The main point I was trying to make is that if you are sick of answering the same question, don't answer it. Just don't type anything. Hit the back button. There is no need for the rude remarks.
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.

lowandbehold said:
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologize, i'm at work and and got heated about something here and really shouldn't of posted that....and when i saw "where is the love", knowing how much i try to help people out around here... it just really bothered me....
you line made it sound like, if we have some one that pops and their very first post is "how do i root my phone" we should bow down and help them. With out throwing any warnings out. just here is how to do it and explain step by step how to.
First of all i will throw out warnings, i will never ward anyone away from doing what they want to do with their device. After all it's their money they are gambling with.
secondly when i bought my first android (mytouch3G) phone i bought with a stock recovery image and a working bootloader and i had to figure everything else from there. I had to learn quickly, if i wanted my phone up and running. So thanks for the props on being knowledgeable, but it was something i pretty much had to do. And people read on BGR, Android Central, or what ever popular bog site about XDA members did this and XDA members did that they jump on here and expect us to hold their hand. People have very well laid out threads on how do do certain things. The reason i treat others the way i do when it comes to problem solving is pretty simple. I had someone do the same for me. A higher up for T-Mobile that took the time and showed me how to do what i needed done. And that kinda what my idea of the Android community is. People helping people, for the fun and enjoyment of it.
with that being said....
With True_blue, Option94, faux123 not to mention another 1/2 dozen good developers and highly knowledgeable people that put things out in black and white, easy to understand English their should be no reason why so many of the same exact threads show up. You can type in just about any Android problem or request in Google and it'll lead you to XDA, and the thread in question. Just like the thread with the guy that just posted " how do i get 2.3, the nexus s variant on my phone"... step one should of been research in stead of starting a new thread....It's the laziness that bothers me. Like with programs like Super Manager and Root Explorer, people are to lazy to learn the ADB commands.... Clockwork ROM manager, people are to lazy to flash a recovery image. Or flashing a ROM go south... did you check the MD5sum? "nope, whats that"... it's just pure laziness that bothers me...

I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.

lowandbehold said:
I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.
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I was one of them idiots that had that cnt mount cache or data issue with my phone,worst thing ever lol...Anyway instead of askin questions on 1 or 2 threads,it went to a bunch of different threads & it did get a lil annoyin cause we all tryin to find a fix but cnt really lock on one cause its soo many diff threads,its just all over the place,if people would just calm dwn & wait for the thread to get answered all would be good but people are impatient & start new threads of the same BS.....

I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

UntamedDeviance said:
I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good example but pretty useless lol.. honestly I enjoy helping out people that's why I'm around here. Helping people makes me feel accomplished no matter what the scenario but fixing the same thing over and over gets to the point where its redundant and you want to get the point across to hit the search button. Hell most of the time ill even link to the thread but when I'm on my phone like I am currently I can't. I enjoy helping but I enjoy even more helping people who can help themselves.
Sent from my HTC Glaciee using XDA Premium App

i totally agree with neidlinger on his points. I started with a G1, Mytouch 3g, mytouch slide, and now MT4G. I read everything i could get my hands on how to root and reread it again. If i still didn't understand something, then i would ask a question or search for it. Most of the posts i read nowadays, people want to be spoon-fed out of sheer laziness.

If the questions posed in these forums were even half as thought out as the comments in this thread, 95% of the snappy remarks would disappear. People want to know they are assisting someone who values that assistance. One or two sentences rarely creates that picture.

Please stop complaining!

This is just a general message to those using roms made by developers here on xda.
Stop F-ING complaining. You are paying absolutely nothing for some really cool stuff for your phone. These guys put in hours and hours of work and share it for FREE!!
Enjoy their work... Thank them... Buy them a few beers... And if you don't like what they're doing go somewhere else!!!

dfox007 said:
This is just a general message to those using roms made by developers here on xda.
Stop F-ING complaining. You are paying absolutely nothing for some really cool stuff for your phone. These guys put in hours and hours of work and share it for FREE!!
Enjoy their work... Thank them... Buy them a few beers... And if you don't like what they're doing go somewhere else!!!
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Click to collapse
+ 1
Sent from my bamf Thunderbolt using XDA App
Twitter @mallen462

I hope they all get this message man
Sent from my A853 using XDA App

I agree. These guys put their phones on the lines to bring us these roms. At the least say thanks
das BAMF sense 3.0 rocking the bolt

no valid point everyone
yea its ok to post bugs and problems etc thats important because it helps the creators fix problems, but don't complain that everyone sucks and the devs suck, because guess what, these people have jobs, life's, and do this stuff for fun and in no way are these roms going to be 100 percent perfect every time, not even stock TB that came from HTC was perfect.

dfox007 said:
This is just a general message to those using roms made by developers here on xda.
Stop F-ING complaining. You are paying absolutely nothing for some really cool stuff for your phone. These guys put in hours and hours of work and share it for FREE!!
Enjoy their work... Thank them... Buy them a few beers... And if you don't like what they're doing go somewhere else!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree with you more! If you have issues with a ROM that make it "suck" switch ROMs or learn how to develop and make your own ROM.

The worst is all the people *****ing in the CM7 thread.

what's with all these stupid threads lately...it's like the days of our lives around here
i miss the days when threads were only technical in nature...

Old MuckenMire said:
what's with all these stupid threads lately...it's like the days of our lives around here
i miss the days when threads were only technical in nature...
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Click to collapse
Then don't read the GENERAL forum. If you want threads of a technical nature stick to the DEVELOPMENT forum, it's not a hard concept...It's a bit ironic that you are calling other peoples threads "stupid"..

Well said.

I would like to lodge a complaint about people complaining.

I'm grateful for the work the dev,s do as i don't know crap about any of this.
Sent from Thunderbolt, Liquid Thundersense 1.5

Dnakaman said:
I would like to lodge a complaint about people complaining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*golf clap*

turbosrrgood said:
Then don't read the GENERAL forum. If you want threads of a technical nature stick to the DEVELOPMENT forum, it's not a hard concept...It's a bit ironic that you are calling other peoples threads "stupid"..
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Click to collapse
Actually there are plenty of ways to have technical questions that have zero reason to be in the Dev subforum. Yet conversely there are always plenty of posts in General that are people having some issue and who are on a custom ROM.

New to android... here I thought only the blackberry people *****ed!

turbosrrgood said:
..It's a bit ironic that you are calling other peoples threads "stupid"..
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Man, you're not complaining that I called this thread stupid, are you? Now THAT'S irony...

I agree. How can you complain about something that's free, and is also take it or leave it. I give kudos to the developers for all the time they put into the builds, and then maintaining them.

dondk said:
New to android... here I thought only the blackberry people *****ed!
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Now, that's funny!

I noticed a lot of this behavior as of late. Imo, I think the devs should make the rooting process harder. Keep the children at bay so to speak.
I see it time and again, people asking questions that have clearly been answered in the OP or within the last few pages of a thread. They take no time to research anything. Most complain that the search utility is crap so why even try. I've never had problems with the search utility. It may not be the most robust tool but it works if you take the time to use it.
The demanding and complaining within threads has reached levels I haven't seen before on XDA. People need to remember that the devs write this stuff in their spare time. They are not obligated to do anything for you. You can make a request but that doesn't mean they will even consider it. There was a day when devs specifically put in the OP "This is my rom, you can make requests but I make this for me, take it as it is. Im just sharing witht he rest of you." But people have come to a point where they expect the devs to listen and do what they suggest.
In rooting your phone, you are voiding your warranty and taking extreme risks with your $500 Thunderbolt. In taking these risks it is assumed that you are a responsible person. Complaining about things or asking questions about things that have been clearly posted is not acting in a manner of a responsible person. Read fully before even starting the rooting process.
Just my opinion of course. But level of maturity on XDA has dipped to a level that is utterly absurd at times.

Carnage9270 said:
I noticed a lot of this behavior as of late. Imo, I think the devs should make the rooting process harder. Keep the children at bay so to speak.
I see it time and again, people asking questions that have clearly been answered in the OP or within the last few pages of a thread. They take no time to research anything. Most complain that the search utility is crap so why even try. I've never had problems with the search utility. It may not be the most robust tool but it works if you take the time to use it.
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I agree about not having an easy way to root, and to some extent I agree about researching. I don't agree that this site has a functional search tool, when I search for something it brings up tons of unrelated stuff and if I add a little more to the search criteria to narrow the results it then says there's nothing matching my search, this is with both searching for threads and searching post within a thread. I was searching for something the other day and the post results didn't include any of the words I put into the search box. I do think people should look for an answer first but when there's 200 pages to go though it can take forever to find a simple answer, I think a faq post after the original post would work wonders for devs, then a lot of unnecessary post would be avoided but of course there will still be some people that are to lazy to skin through faq's.

Concerns about this thread!!

XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack

This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP

crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.

crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp

Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167

gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)

crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4

AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201

Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.

So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?

eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.

Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!

eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.

Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.

This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!

There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?

WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app

gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:

Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?

I felt like a rant was coming on..

So... Sometimes I think to myself why basically no developers care about us anymore.. I came up with an idea pretty quick.. We are annoying most of the time to them. Especially the people to ask questions without just looking through the threads a bit. Obviously they have no experience forum hunting. I haven't had that much experience myself with forums, but it does not take long before we see the downside of our community. The people who post the most on XDA are Forum peeps.. second.. newbs... Sometimes I consider myself one for I feel sorry doing that for questions so dumb, but that was before I learned google doesn't really work through XDA forums that much. You google GS4 MF3 Recovery Bounty and it shows the wrong post on the top. The right post that you'd be interested in is a few links down. But I learned that lesson.
My question to the community, is why do we bother with people like this? The second someone has a serious post about anything, a newb comes along and says "PLEASE RELEASE THE MF3 RECOVERY>> OMG>>...." Those guys should be banned... and I see that way to often... (sadly I see it more in the Jailbreak for iphone more) but it is still in this forum too. Reason for this is probably really simple. This forum has gotten to be the most popular android related forum existing. Everyone that roots their phone has heard of XDA. So... what happens when one of those 14 year old root consumers has a problem? They (hopefully) google it.. then runs into the stupid google problem with XDA for unrelated crap, then posts directly here. Then we come along and say "if you would have looked, it's right in this thread, and everyone has that problem, so don't complain". I have a little sympathy for them, but after a while, those same people become those people who just scan the forums every day for some news of a possible MF3 Exploit, then one they see a serious post, they might think SOMETHINGS BEING DONE!!!......... Ugh... Huge sigh there.
So.. what could we do about it? One, we could ask google to fix their results to be more relevant for us.. but that may or may not ever happen. What else? We could just not let newbs post anywhere for the first day, only in Q&A threads the next weeks, then everything else after 2 months, that gives them enough time to learn that your exploit may never come.. especially if people like them do what they do every day. That won't get rid of everything. Especially on the Q&A, but it would keep the serious threads not kept in the Q&A thread relevant and less of a chance of newbs coming and replying. This is more an idea for the Mod's/Admins to consider, just more strict of a new user system.
Those intentions are only to relieve some of the bad feelings most hacker/devs have here, like DjrBliss. He flat out just dropped out of the forum a little after he released his Loki. And he's having a great time over on the moto x conversations you hear him have on twitter.
That's all I have to say for now.. And this is only my opinion on matters, may not be yours, so.. ya.
Have a good rest of the day you all

Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.

Cool story, bro. Take the Google search course if you're having problems searching. Here's a hint. Google "your subject xda" You'll get the hits your looking for first.

agent929 said:
Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.
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Yup your probably right there.. Well My ideas were somewhat close..