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[Q] Experiment for the electrically inclined - Battery drain hardware related?

Hey guys,
After using numerous combinations of roms + kernels, various calibrations/tips/tricks, I'm still facing a battery drain of around 15% an hour.
I suspect that it might be hardware related so I used a multimeter to check the resistance/continuity between the 3 pins on the phone that connect to the battery.
Apparently the 1st and 3rd pins have a resistance of only 18 ohms!? That basically means that they are directly connected somehow? This doesn't make sense because those pins correspond to power and ground on the battery.
Could those of you with a multimeter do a similar test and let me know if you get the same results? Also report what kind of battery life you get together with the results.
If this is a real issue then that means LG screwed up the hardware design!

Hey guys,
After using numerous combinations of roms + kernels, various calibrations/tips/tricks, I'm still facing a battery drain of around 15% an hour.
I suspect that it might be hardware related so I used a multimeter to check the resistance/continuity between the 3 pins on the phone that connect to the battery.
Apparently the 1st and 3rd pins have a resistance of only 18 ohms!? That basically means that they are directly connected somehow? This doesn't make sense because those pins correspond to power and ground on the battery.
Could those of you with a multimeter do a similar test and let me know if you get the same results? Also report what kind of battery life you get together with the results.
If this is a real issue then that means LG screwed up the hardware design!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. Whats the positive/negative difference. The ground is directly wired to reduce overflow and keep the phone from frying itself. Remember, electricity runs negative to positive. The ground takes the excess and puts it back in the battery. If it didn't you'd have no phone to use. So yeah, a direct flow will will have the least resistance. Check positive/negative first. If that's around 18 Ohms then you have a problem. I would suggest sending that ticking time bomb back and getting another.

More results
The terminal resistance between pins 1 and 2 is 738 ohms, pins 2 and 3 is 8.84 Mohms, and pins 1 and 3 is 17.4 ohms.
The battery has 4 pads and the output is 4.15V on the leftmost pad (positive) with respect to the other 3 pads. There is no voltage difference between any other pads.
You could be right that this is a 'time bomb' But the phone or battery doesn't get hot at all! I'm getting another battery soon, so hopefully that'll fix things?
Just curious to see what other people got, so if you have a multimeter handy, please post your readings too!

738!!! At 1500 mAh, thats way to damn high. Somethings wrong somewhere. I could see that on a larger battery with better screen and processor but on the g2x, no. I would hope a new battery fixes that. I don't have a multimeter nor do I use the g2x anymore. I have the Dell Venue Pro now. I could try running some wire from the pins to a light bulb and say how bright it is, though that would be completely inaccurate versus seeing a number.

If you want to test the battery drain, you have to use an Ammeter in series between the battery and the phone. It is easy to do but, if you short circuit the battery terminals, the battery will heat up extremely quickly and either catch fire and/or blow up. Shorting out batteries, especially NIMH or LiPo can be deadly.
---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------
You can get the G2X/P999 service manual at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1429745
It contains information about the charge and power management for the phone.

Core Memory said:
If you want to test the battery drain, you have to use an Ammeter in series between the battery and the phone. It is easy to do but, if you short circuit the battery terminals, the battery will heat up extremely quickly and either catch fire and/or blow up. Shorting out batteries, especially NIMH or LiPo can be deadly.
---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------
You can get the G2X/P999 service manual at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1429745
It contains information about the charge and power management for the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the service manual! It clarified a lot of things.
I see that the circuit diagram on page 176 (BATT conn. section) shows that the 1st and 3rd pins are indeed connected in the CN801 terminal block. Not sure why that is though.
I managed to connect the phone in series by holding the multimeter and some wires in contact with the 1st and 3rd pin. The 2nd pin (which is the battery temperature indicator) was not connected. When the phone is off, it drains at about 200 mA!? And when I boot the phone up, it jumps up to 600 mA! This might be measuring the feedback current within the battery, and not the actual power consumption.Not sure if this has anything to do with the 2nd pin not being connected, but I only have so many fingers!
According to page 18 of the service manual, the phone should only draw 4.3 mA on stand by and last 350 hours? LOL
Still waiting on the new battery, but it's been fun trying to figure out what's going on.

Based on what you describe you need another phone not battery.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA

How hot is too hot??

I've looked around and either most people are confused as to whether they're talking about battery temps or CPU temps or cannot come up with a definitive answer.
I'm looking for an answer on CPU temps and not one of those "I've seen a phone get up to 1000 degrees once and still work" I mean I'd like to know what a phone can consistently(hours at a time) run at without causing damage.
Reason I ask is when I tether my CPU is at 140 F and the Battery is at 109 F. Now I'm not too overly concerned about the battery I'm fairly confident that 109 isn't damaging it. I am concerned about the CPU though as I have no clue when the "danger zone" is tripped temperature wise. If someone could enlighten me it would be appreciated.

When it's gets that hot, I'll remove my battery and let it sit for 20 minutes. Then I'll swap it out for another new battery off the wall charger.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

AndroidGraphix said:
When it's gets that hot, I'll remove my battery and let it sit for 20 minutes. Then I'll swap it out for another new battery off the wall charger.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually at this point I remove the back cover and place the phone upside down in front of a fan which cools it but I would like to know if this is even necessary....

Higher temperatres for batteries are not good for them at any time, they will speed up the degredation of the battery itself. That being said, it routintely gets 109 degrees in the summer where I live and I rarely have a battery problem, you will noticed a shorter life span on batteries both while they are being used and over several charge and discharge cycles. The battery will naturally heat up while charging, especially using the rapid-charge methods most phones use right now or when charging from a very low charge.
As far as the CPU goes, 140 degrees is about 60 C, most CPU's can tolerate up to around 70-75 C without causing problems. Also, IIRC most boards have a cutoff if the device gets too hot to operate, I know the iPhone does so I would imagine that Android devices do as well.
That leaves it a matter of your own comfort, if it is too hot for you to actully hold onto and use - that I have seen before, in which case the best method for cooling it off is to actually turn the phone off, remove the battery and let it sit at room temperature until the device cools. Using a fan will work but is far less effective. The use of power-saving mode can also help because a good portion of heat in the battery while discharging is due to the CPU and Power Saving mode sets the CPU to favor lower processing speeds, which of course lowers heat. This does assume you're not doing something with your phone that will tax the CPU.

titanshadow said:
As far as the CPU goes, 140 degrees is about 60 C, most CPU's can tolerate up to around 70-75 C without causing problems. Also, IIRC most boards have a cutoff if the device gets too hot to operate, I know the iPhone does so I would imagine that Android devices do as well.
That leaves it a matter of your own comfort, if it is too hot for you to actully hold onto and use - that I have seen before, in which case the best method for cooling it off is to actually turn the phone off, remove the battery and let it sit at room temperature until the device cools. Using a fan will work but is far less effective. The use of power-saving mode can also help because a good portion of heat in the battery while discharging is due to the CPU and Power Saving mode sets the CPU to favor lower processing speeds, which of course lowers heat. This does assume you're not doing something with your phone that will tax the CPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you confident about the CPU temps??? I put the fan on my phone because I still want to do the same functions I am doing(mainly tethering using upload and download)

Most of what I've found on the chip are pointing to temps around 70c
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

hmmm
Just flashed to CleanRom and my cpu is OC'D TO 1.99 GHZ. I was wondering, it feels kinda warm, so what temperature should be normal?

Another thing to keep in mind about batteries and high temperatures is that the negative effect from the high temperature is at it's worst the higher the charge level. So if it's going to be getting hot--it's best to not keep it plugged in constantly.

jvu316 said:
Just flashed to CleanRom and my cpu is OC'D TO 1.99 GHZ. I was wondering, it feels kinda warm, so what temperature should be normal?
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Click to collapse
I run about 120f when I've been using my phone regularly. Otherwise the post above yours defines dangerous level.
grin0048 said:
Another thing to keep in mind about batteries and high temperatures is that the negative effect from the high temperature is at it's worst the higher the charge level. So if it's going to be getting hot--it's best to not keep it plugged in constantly.
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Click to collapse
This thread isn't about batteries at all.

Brian Gove said:
This thread isn't about batteries at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AndroidGraphix said:
When it's gets that hot, I'll remove my battery and let it sit for 20 minutes. Then I'll swap it out for another new battery off the wall charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
to which you responded:
Brian Gove said:
Usually at this point I remove the back cover and place the phone upside down in front of a fan which cools it but I would like to know if this is even necessary....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
titanshadow said:
Higher temperatres for batteries are not good for them at any time, they will speed up the degredation of the battery itself. That being said, it routintely gets 109 degrees in the summer where I live and I rarely have a battery problem, you will noticed a shorter life span on batteries both while they are being used and over several charge and discharge cycles. The battery will naturally heat up while charging, especially using the rapid-charge methods most phones use right now or when charging from a very low charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, uhh, really? Not about batteries at all?
Anyway, who cares, you mentioned your battery also getting hot in the OP (I realize that wasn't your primary concern), someone else posted something about batteries and heat, so I thought it relevant to add a little something to that particular discussion.

grin0048 said:
to which you responded:
So, uhh, really? Not about batteries at all?
Anyway, who cares, you mentioned your battery also getting hot in the OP (I realize that wasn't your primary concern), someone else posted something about batteries and heat, so I thought it relevant to add a little something to that particular discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really read the first post. I directly asked about CPU temps. Not battery temps.

Brian Gove said:
Really read the first post. I directly asked about CPU temps. Not battery temps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I decided to ADD to already established discussion on battery temps in this thread, and you...well, you just continue being your pleasant self Brian Gove :good:

Future battery swaps

So just a thought. While I have no problem with a non-removable battery my question is.. Down the road say 12-16 months when battery's just don't hold the charge like they used to. How hard would it be to swap the battery in the Nexus 4? Would it be a DIY or would it require a little more professional help?
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

I've seen that it's pretty easy to get access to the battery. Back is held on by a couple of Torx screws. I'm not sure how the battery is connected though (directly soldered, wired connector, metal contacts, etc).

Its as easy as removing 2 screws. Already done by a reviewer:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/12jze2/nexus_4_battery_may_not_be_so_hard_to_replace_acc/
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda app-developers app

_guzzler_ said:
Its as easy as removing 2 screws. Already done by a reviewer:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/12jze2/nexus_4_battery_may_not_be_so_hard_to_replace_acc/
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think he meant the battery not the back cover, for what i could see in the pictures it was the back cover.

I was reading up on the differences between lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries and it seems that the polymer batteries don't degrade as quickly as lithium ion batteries do so they should theoretically last quite a bit longer than ion batteries. There are pros and cons but I like the idea of the nexus 4 having lithium polymer.
My life for Aiur

Replacing the battery seems simple. I'm more worried that no one will bother trying to make a relatively affordable new back/extended battery that includes the antennas.

I believe the battery is bolted down and supports several fragile springs that are vital to reception....so I think the answer is no way?

Looks exactly how the Iphones have their battery... given their popularity and still haven't seen Iphones with extended internal batteries I'm going to say it won't happen for the nexus 4

Lithium Polymer batteries actually have a reduced cycle count when compared to Lithium Ion. However, they should still deliver about 75% capacity after ~800 cycles. You'll certainly notice your capacity diminishing after two years, but it should still be serviceable. If you're someone who keeps their phones for more than two years, you may want to consider a different phone, but if you upgrade somewhat frequently you should be fine without a replaceable battery.

raptir said:
Lithium Polymer batteries actually have a reduced cycle count when compared to Lithium Ion. However, they should still deliver about 75% capacity after ~800 cycles. You'll certainly notice your capacity diminishing after two years, but it should still be serviceable. If you're someone who keeps their phones for more than two years, you may want to consider a different phone, but if you upgrade somewhat frequently you should be fine without a replaceable battery.
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Click to collapse
Actually that 800 cycle rating is based on how many charges the battery can take before the capacity will drop below 80%. So at 800 charges you should be at 80 percent capacity.
http://forums.anandtech.com/archive/index.php/t-2131909.html
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------
And yes replacing the battery is a DIY job, you just can't replace it on the fly. If you run into a situation where your battery is defective then yes you can easily replace the battery with a screwdriver. It would be a pain in the ass to have a spare battery and change it out regularly...
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Peek-behind-LG-Nexus-4-back-cover-shows-replaceable-battery_id36266
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Battery Experiment

This battery i ordered cost 8 dollars and is 3800 mah plus free shipping. The "stock oem" cost the same and is 3000 mah

Decided 2 test 2 more. The 4000 is from china. Oem is from china also. I will use 2 different apps to test thes3 batteries also

The whole reason is this. I noticed my phone taking a bit longer to charge now and battery draining faster. Its been a year since i got the phone
I did a 97% fast charge and this is how much energy i got

so i had no luck removing the glass with a sucction cup following this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23exUFwslw
but i was able to replace the battery. discharing now to test true mAh. if its not 3800 like gold promised i will open ebay case
And i turned up brightness and gps. Kinda hard to drain now compared to stock battery

So testinf the gold i got these results. I did battery repair and calacration. First thing i noticed right away is the battery is lastinf a lot longer

Ouch. RIP back glass. We may all have to eventually try to replace the battery so any tips on where you went wrong on the back would be helpful too. Glad to see the battery worked and is at rated specs. They are often lower than the specs written on the battery.

djhulk2 said:
so i had no luck removing the glass with a sucction cup following this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23exUFwslw
but i was able to replace the battery. discharing now to test true mAh. if its not 3800 like gold promised i will open ebay case
And i turned up brightness and gps. Kinda hard to drain now compared to stock battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you ever have to open the back of the Samsung Galaxy Note 5 again to replace the battery or anything else first buy a heating gun and a laser temperature gage and then heat the back edges of the glass up(not in the center) to about 190-200 degrees Fahrenheit but do not exceed 212 degrees Fahrenheit and always keep it in motion don't ever stop and just direct the heat into 1 spot because it'll burn easily since most of them start at 500 Fahrenheit and go all the way to 1000 Fahrenheit.. after heating the glue around the edges up use your pry tools and playing cards to slowly push them through the glue and if you have to heat it up again which you probably will just do it... The 1 major thing needed for this job is patience and work slowly.. There's no need to rush!
---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------
iivisionii said:
Ouch. RIP back glass. We may all have to eventually try to replace the battery so any tips on where you went wrong on the back would be helpful too. Glad to see the battery worked and is at rated specs. They are often lower than the specs written on the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This should help others with the glass I've done it many times and it works really good as long as you have patience and don't be rough with it.
---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 PM ----------
djhulk2 said:
Decided 2 test 2 more. The 4000 is from china. Oem is from china also. I will use 2 different apps to test thes3 batteries also
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I ask how that 4000 mAh battery from China worked out for you? Was it better than the original and does fast charge still work with it?

First clear up. The gold 3800 for 7.89 isnt 3800. It tested out at 2100. I got 4 dollar refund because its 55% less what promised. But im usint it right now because it last longer than my stock battery. My stock also measured at 2100 due to degradetion. But this gold battery discharges a lot slower. The 3200 battery shouls be here friday and the 4000 battery from china should be here around 20 days. And i just got a regular hair dryer, was afarid of over heating so i cut a small hole and forced the flat head in cracking everything. An oem reppacement is 15 dollars, but a generic with no galaxy note 5 on it cost around 8. Also what is the point of the glass back if the phone is kept in a case the whole time

And i recalabrated the battery twice. That fixed the surprise battery %. Where you get to 0 and turn on phone its 15% or where it says 98% and jumped to 80%. Calabrating fixed it and yes fast charge is working normal

djhulk2 said:
First clear up. The gold 3800 for 7.89 isnt 3800. It tested out at 2100. I got 4 dollar refund because its 55% less what promised. But im usint it right now because it last longer than my stock battery. My stock also measured at 2100 due to degradetion. But this gold battery discharges a lot slower. The 3200 battery shouls be here friday and the 4000 battery from china should be here around 20 days. And i just got a regular hair dryer, was afarid of over heating so i cut a small hole and forced the flat head in cracking everything. An oem reppacement is 15 dollars, but a generic with no galaxy note 5 on it cost around 8. Also what is the point of the glass back if the phone is kept in a case the whole time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are you finding oem replacements at? I've been searching all over and even bought 1 from ebay claiming it was an oem front glass and low and behold it's not oem it's totally aftermarket and the color doesn't even match so it's not going on my phone!!

Thanks for the tips MrMike2182

iivisionii said:
Thanks for the tips MrMike2182
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem! I had to figure out how to do it too at one point. We all have to learn how to do certain things somehow.

If your looking for the orginal, this is how it should look because this is the orginal battery i pulled out

djhulk2 said:
If your looking for the orginal, this is how it should look because this is the orginal battery i pulled out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I seen the same one in mine too.. What I'm interested in is a battery that's going to last longer than the 3,000mAh one did.

The 3200 battery arrived and is installed. It came with 70% charged. Gonna calabrate it and then discharge to 0 to do the mah charging test

Promises 5 hour screen time. Already noticing its taking longer to go from 100 to 99 and still stuck at 99

Didnt charge yet, but 2 early to tell. So far this battery seems note 3200 either but few more discharges to see if anything changes

djhulk2 said:
Didnt charge yet, but 2 early to tell. So far this battery seems note 3200 either but few more discharges to see if anything changes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Note 5 3,000mAh battery is currently at 82% charge and says 5 hours SOT left. I usually do get between 7 and 9 hours SOT with all of my settings the way they are and nothing is running that shouldn't be and all carrier junk is removed or disabled! I would be curious to see what a 4,000mAh would do with my settings..

Ok this 3200 battery discharged 2800mah. Maybe it will go up to 3200 after 5 discharges like it says but right now another battery as not advertised. Waiting on the 4000 from china

djhulk2 said:
Ok this 3200 battery discharged 2800mah. Maybe it will go up to 3200 after 5 discharges like it says but right now another battery as not advertised. Waiting on the 4000 from china
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is kind of why I hate crap from China because they advertise 4000mAh and in reality it's only a 2800 or 3000 just wrapped up in a different way to make it seem better.. I think the 4000 is just going to be junk too.

Using phone while charging

Is it okay to use my S8+ while im charging?
Sent from my SM-G955F using xda premium

Sure why not?

peachpuff said:
Sure why not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my experience my phones always loose battery life a bit every time I use it whilst charging. I just got an S8+ a month ago, I'm too scared to do it. Good thing the battery life is pretty good! I can charge it for a bit and use it for a while!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Lukey618 said:
In my experience my phones always loose battery life a bit every time I use it whilst charging. I just got an S8+ a month ago, I'm too scared to do it. Good thing the battery life is pretty good! I can charge it for a bit and use it for a while!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean it doesn't charge fast enough to keep up with your use, or you mean the battery health degrades by using it?
---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------
babyyeobo14 said:
Is it okay to use my S8+ while im charging?
Sent from my SM-G955F using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I do it all the time. I have used a cable fast charger while surfing the internet or shopping on Amazon. I regularly set it on my wireless charger in the car and play music, or the wireless charger at my desk and watch movies.

Mr. Orange 645 said:
You mean it doesn't charge fast enough to keep up with your use, or you mean the battery health degrades by using it?
---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------
Absolutely. I do it all the time. I have used a cable fast charger while surfing the internet or shopping on Amazon. I regularly set it on my wireless charger in the car and play music, or the wireless charger at my desk and watch movies.
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Click to collapse
I mean my batter health degrades by using it that's my theory but I don't know if it's true or not haven't done much research but this is my experience with all my devices, even ones that aren't phones :/ idk I'm just scared to do it probably not a big deal
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

It's not a theory - it is truth, but ONLY because of the HEAT. Phone is hot when charging, and by using it, IF YOU PLAY GAMES or such heavy use, battery and phone gets even warmer. So it degrades battery life. A TINY BIT. But I wouldn't worry about it if you don't do it every day for an hour and with heavy usage (CPU/GPU intensive games)... Don't be a slave to a device, that device is to be of use to us not the other way round. And in a year or so, you can always replace the battery, it is not that expensive. Cheers.