Database Info

info on LCD bleed and link to fix

If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php

What was the change in their return policy?

mysterioustko said:
What was the change in their return policy?
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I'm pretty sure this policy change has to do with all the G2x returns/exchanges since they weren't "defective" and we're actually "functional".
http://www.tmonews.com/2011/05/t-mobile-changing-restocking-fees-now-based-on-device/

From the first link you posted
"In general, there is no definite fix for backlight bleeding,..."
"The best way to fix backlight bleed is to have the monitor replaced or avoid LCD's which are known to have bleeding problems all together"
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Backlight bleed is common among inexpensive LCD monitors, this does not mean it's acceptable on a high end smartphone. Any troubles LG or T-Mo are having with returns are more about shoddy manufacturing than they are about picky customers.

jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends what you call minor. If you are in the 2% of the people that doesn't have that issue or it's minor good for you. For us that have that issue and it's not tolerable will exchange my phones until i get a non-defective one!

Spyvie said:
From the first link you posted
Backlight bleed is common among inexpensive LCD monitors, this does not mean it's acceptable on a high end smartphone. Any troubles LG or T-Mo are having with returns are more about shoddy manufacturing than they are about picky customers.
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Click to collapse
You have to remember now this is a high end DUAL CORE CPU smart phone. To keep the costs down and be able to have an affordable price for the consumer, they'd have to "cut corners" with some other part of the hardware in order to feature the state of the art Nvidia Tegra 2. It's no wonder they chose to cut corners with a cheaper LCD display then going with AMOLED.
Other manufacturers do this also. I was able to get a Toshiba gaming laptop at the time the intel i7 CPUs and Nvidia's GTX 460m were top of the line at less than $1000. This was a steal when other manufacturer's like Alienware were selling there same internal setups at $1000 more than the Toshiba offering. The reason Toshiba could do this was because they "cut corners" on other parts, giving a cheaper alternative for instance in the keyboard department and using plastic instead of metal for the chassis.
So it seems that LG chose to compromise the screen display with a cheaper alternative, although just as effective as higher end displays, but it would have a minor issue that's common to the "cheaper" manufacturing process of making the specific LCD for the G2x.

At jacob818
If they want to cut corners then they shouldn't make "HIGH END " DEVICES u don't see the attrix with LCD bleed... u don't see Samsung glaaxy s 2 w bleed plz just stop trolling and trying to make people feel guilty for wanting a phone that u can use in 30% 50% 75% or 100% brightness its our phone I can root it mess with it set the setting how ever I feel like it an it should work 100 %
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor.
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While that may be true if I am paying $500 or even $250 + a 2 year contract I expect something to work as flawlessly as it should be. I dont see anything wrong with exchanging a phone to get what I paid for.
if you paid $500 for a new TV would you be fine with dead pixels in the middle? if you bought a new car would you be fine if only some things worked some of the time?
I think the problem isnt a lot of people exchanging the phones, the problem is LG having the issue the first place and Tmobile changing policy because of the exchanges.
I also have the bleed issue but its not terrible. the only black screens I have noticed it on so far are boot,shutdown and the few times the top 2 corners are all black.
I was going to wait to exchange but Im not sure what my options are now. now that many have been returned I certainly dont want a refurb phone like you get with insurance

jacob808 said:
You have to remember now this is a high end DUAL CORE CPU smart phone. To keep the costs down and be able to have an affordable price for the consumer, they'd have to "cut corners" with some other part of the hardware in order to feature the state of the art Nvidia Tegra 2. It's no wonder they chose to cut corners with a cheaper LCD display then going with AMOLED.
Other manufacturers do this also. I was able to get a Toshiba gaming laptop at the time the intel i7 CPUs and Nvidia's GTX 460m were top of the line at less than $1000. This was a steal when other manufacturer's like Alienware were selling there same internal setups at $1000 more than the Toshiba offering. The reason Toshiba could do this was because they "cut corners" on other parts, giving a cheaper alternative for instance in the keyboard department and using plastic instead of metal for the chassis.
So it seems that LG chose to compromise the screen display with a cheaper alternative, although just as effective as higher end displays, but it would have a minor issue that's common to the "cheaper" manufacturing process of making the specific LCD for the G2x.
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They cut corners by using a cheaper display on the G2x? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the IPS display is one of the best around! The AMOLED displays just look vibrant and fake.
High end or not, there will always be a flaw that people will blow out of proportion. It's just how things are made, when your mass producing not every item can be perfect, but they can come pretty close.

omarsalmin said:
They cut corners by using a cheaper display on the G2x? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the IPS display is one of the best around! The AMOLED displays just look vibrant and fake.
High end or not, there will always be a flaw that people will blow out of proportion. It's just how things are made, when your mass producing not every item can be perfect, but they can come pretty close.
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OK so if not every phone will work the same then y did I pay 500+ just like the guy w no LCD bleed no reboots no problems should t I pay less ...we all pay the same price BC we all should get the same device its call quality control
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

jacob808 said:
You have to remember now this is a high end DUAL CORE CPU smart phone. To keep the costs down and be able to have an affordable price for the consumer, they'd have to "cut corners" with some other part of the hardware in order to feature the state of the art Nvidia Tegra 2. It's no wonder they chose to cut corners with a cheaper LCD display then going with AMOLED.
Other manufacturers do this also. I was able to get a Toshiba gaming laptop at the time the intel i7 CPUs and Nvidia's GTX 460m were top of the line at less than $1000. This was a steal when other manufacturer's like Alienware were selling there same internal setups at $1000 more than the Toshiba offering. The reason Toshiba could do this was because they "cut corners" on other parts, giving a cheaper alternative for instance in the keyboard department and using plastic instead of metal for the chassis.
So it seems that LG chose to compromise the screen display with a cheaper alternative, although just as effective as higher end displays, but it would have a minor issue that's common to the "cheaper" manufacturing process of making the specific LCD for the G2x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just because a product has a new edge technology doesn't mean it can be defective in another aspect. I think it's just very hard for us to get over the fact that we are paying that much for a defective product. if the screen is made of a lower technology with no defect, then fine, we can't really complain, but i doubt people will be purchasing the phone.
on another note, thanks for the guide. Since I don't mind my bleeding that much, I wouldn't risk toying with my phone

you dont understand
jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am on my third g2x. first time i ever returned a phone. the first one had very little back blled some but not a worry im guessing thas wht you have. what you dont understand is my seconnd g2x had so much back light bleed it caused a yellow huge on the screen it was unviewable from any angle other than straight on(which is the big thing with ips screens they allow a pretty good angle view without screen losing color saturation. so im glad your bleed is like my first and now my third minimal and very tolerable(better than my tv) but there are indeed screens out there that have bleed so bad as to make it not usable. my first had such a bad antenna or recep[tion where i now get 11 megs down and 3 uup it wouldnt even complete speed test half the time and if it did it was 0.03 down.
and tmobile can change restocking fee all they want i will not pay a restocking fee for a product that is bad period so they can threaten all they want ill see them in court. im already broke so i have nothing to lose .
restocking fees are for products that you purchased that are in working order but you decided didnt fit your needs not for products that are bad. the horrible back bleed was dated march 23. this 3rd one is dated april 30th. on the back of the box i forgot to look at that on the one wioth the horrible back bleed.
so before you go off on your soap box because you got lucky the first time. dont think that people are just *****ing.
first phone- no recpetion
second phone- terrible back light bleeding, constant reboots, gps would not turn off causing battery to drain only way to turn on or off was with rebooting the phone.
third phone(just got yesterday) rebooted once but i think was a tower update or something. nothing since. backlight bled is minimal good viewing angles no yellow tint.
are there abuses of retunrs yes but there is a reason why the store yesterday had 5 returns in their store. she really tried to push me away from the g2x all together but until sensation comes nothing is comparable. im hoping this one continues to function correctly. it so far has none of the problems that the first 2 had.
its LG and tmobile that are to blame for the returns not the users. the initial batch of g2x's were borked maybe you purchased after this second release that appears to be better.
when paying 600 bucks or committing to someone for 2 years you expect it to function as its advertised, if you just say oh well than they will continue to release subpar products.
just remember just because your device doesnt have the problems people talk about doesnt mean they are overreacting.

jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of i do want to thank you for finally posting on the screen bleed issue. Like jacob has said if you look for flaws you with always find somthing. if you are a perfectionist and expect the device to be PERFECT as soon as it is released you might as well go spend your money on a something that has been out for a while. I work for TMO and my screen leaks just a bit of light as well in the upper corners. but you dont even notice it unless you are on a black screen. Its a new device there are going to be flaws. Just please be patient while they all get worked out.

kinda right
gb091685 said:
First of i do want to thank you for finally posting on the screen bleed issue. Like jacob has said if you look for flaws you with always find somthing. if you are a perfectionist and expect the device to be PERFECT as soon as it is released you might as well go spend your money on a something that has been out for a while. I work for TMO and my screen leaks just a bit of light as well in the upper corners. but you dont even notice it unless you are on a black screen. Its a new device there are going to be flaws. Just please be patient while they all get worked out.
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reboots, gps issues yeh they may be software related. the phones that do have the horrible backlight bleeding can not be fixed by software so waiting for an update wont fix this. i too was sceptical about all the backlight bleeding complaints since my first and third are like yours. but there are phones out there with very bad backlight bleeding. but using hardware for a long time i never thought of posting that you are just overreacting i was glad mine didnt have that problem. and why i tried everytihng not to return my first phone and i got what i was scared of the batch that people on here are complaining about . thiese horrible phones are for real. they are out there.

I like how out of 4 different g2xs ive had ALL of them had bleeding in different spots and worse in each of there own ways.... If it was "meant to bleed" you think it would be standard and in one area.....,ill replace all the g2xs I want... I will not pay anything more... (shipping/restock) its good to be a loyal customer and get good service
Let alone I got the g2x for free the day it was released (4/15) im not gonna complain to much
And another note.... Ive seen two other LG android phones (vortex and the other verizon one)
They dont bleed at all...... Hmmmmm sounds like tmobile just got the ****ty versions of a good phone again (i1900/vibrant)
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App

nate420 said:
I like how out of 4 different g2xs ive had ALL of them had bleeding in different spots and worse in each of there own ways.... If it was "meant to bleed" you think it would be standard and in one area.....,ill replace all the g2xs I want... I will not pay anything more... (shipping/restock) its good to be a loyal customer and get good service
Let alone I got the g2x for free the day it was released (4/15) im not gonna complain to much
And another note.... Ive seen two other LG android phones (vortex and the other verizon one)
They dont bleed at all...... Hmmmmm sounds like tmobile just got the ****ty versions of a good phone again (i1900/vibrant)
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
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How did you get the phone for free
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

I'm on my first and only G2x, no bleeding. For every complaint on here, there are handfuls of people who don't have the problem and don't create threads like this.
Return as many times as you wish, that's what the warranty is there for.

I don't know about you guys but I can deal with having some slight lcd bleeding issues over running the risk of performing a return/exchange and end up with a rebooting lemon....

i agree
Vaddy23 said:
I don't know about you guys but I can deal with having some slight lcd bleeding issues over running the risk of performing a return/exchange and end up with a rebooting lemon....
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this one bleeds a little but totally tolerable. thats why i ddint want to return the first one because i just wasnt getting the problems peoiple were reporting other than the soignal issue but i was seeing full bars was just not getting any speed. and the second was my worst nightmare horrible. this one seems to be good so far? i hope it stays that way. i have been payong 2 contracts since i dont want to pay verizons early term fee until im sure i have a replacement phone. it does make me laugh how people think we should put up with a shotty produyct because its new . if the product isnt good dont release it. i can put up with my tv not having hulu yet and waiting a couple months. i couldnt put up with a internt tv not connecting to the internet. waiting for a software enhancemnet is one thing bad hardware is different and should not be tolerated in any new product.

The problem that I have with threads like these is the OP comes off like a corporate douchbag. I've posted on other threads with the same response just like I will with this one. The fact that you are talking down to ppl who spend hard earned money on a product that expect quality is quite repulsive. Just because YOU accept mediocrity in products that YOU purchase doesn't mean I nor anyone who expect quality in our products have to agree. Nor will we accept you talking down to us as if we are some how dumb for wanting quality in our products.....Also there are these firestone tires I wish to sale you brandnew from about 5 years ago....

I actually WANT to pay more for my phones, and here is why?

With iPhones beginning to show its age, and Android phones coming out with faster processors, more PPI, and more premium materials, I think Android is in a prime position to take the crown here. But with this fierce competition, I'm starting to notice more and more quality control issues, weird design decisions, and what seems to be less-than-thorough testing before release.
Take the HTC One and Galaxy S4 for example. Both are getting high praises from reviewers, and people are generally happy with these devices. But looking at the forums here, the problems that people have about these phone are glaring and very noticeable but at the same time not necessary/innate, meaning that it could have been easily avoided by both manufactures with just a bit more attention to detail, better testing, and better quality control. The shear number of people who have dead pixels on their HTC One is mind boggling for example, where they have to go through exchange after exchange in order to get one without dead pixels. Looking at one of the poles, 60% reported at least one defective pixel! The lack of a menu button, or an out-of-the box option to long press for menu baffles me even more. Yes, you can root/unlock and mod the phone (and maybe lose your warranty or brick it), but how about that person who is switching from an iPhone to an HTC One who has no desire to modify their phone? Are they not going to be turned off by that ugly black box taking up an appreciable portion of their screen real estate? Then there are many people who are turned off by the gaps in HTC claimed "zero" gap design. Again doing exchange, after exchange in order to get a "good one".
Same story with the S4 with its lags, screen smearing, the always-on red pixels.....and now they are trying to fix these issues with firmware updates. These are problems that are apparent straight out of the box. Its not like HTC or Samsung could not have noticed them during testing. Someone didn't complain to HTC about that black box during testing? HTC couldn't require that a majority of its LCDs be free of pixel defect? Samsung didn't notice the ugly smearing in their menus, or the burgundy tinted blacks before release? None of the testers reported to Samsung about their god-awful Dialer app? (I'm talking about the ATT version, not sure about the international version here). No one noticed the glaring lag in at least some of the tested devices?
I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot with these easily avoidable problems? These phones are close to perfection, and in a strange way, it makes these kind of problems even harder to swallow. Why have all this great hardware under the hood, and then handicap it in the worst way with some stupid design decision, QC problems, or an obvious lack of usability testing prior to release?
Part of the problem might be that we are demanding more for our money. The 1080p LCD/AMOLED isn't cheap, machining a piece of aluminum isnt cheap, the Snapdraon 600 isn't cheap, Gorilla Glass 3 isnt cheap...so maybe Samsung/ HTC skimp on testing prior to release or demanding less from quality control. But is that what we want going forward? We all love new toys, but the joy and excitement of having a new gadget fades away quickly after you take it out of the box. Having to wait for firmware updates, or holding off to buy in hopes of a new stock, just makes the novelty fade away even quicker.
I for one would like cellphone manufacturers to take more of my money but give me a better product out of the box. Charge me more, but don't knowingly skimp somewhere. The more I think about it, the more I realize how cheap cellphones really are considering all the bells whistle they come with. I rarely use my laptop anymore unless I need to type up a paper or to do photo/video editing. I'm a gadget junky, through and through. Like many of you, I spend a good amount of my hard earned cash on newer and better TVs, cameras, game consoles, PC components, laptops, etc etc. But I must say, none of those have required more exchanges, more returns, and more DOH!s than cellphones.
My question to tech junkies and laymans alike is, where do you stand? would be willing to pay more than that ubiquitous $200 for a high-tiered subsidized phone, if you knew it was "Muaaaaaaaaaa" *kisses fingertips* out-of-the box and not have to wait for a firmware update? Would you pay more If you knew you wouldn't have to exchange it countless times in order to get a "good one"? How much more? .....or you could just say "Sam, you are an ass for typing all this"

$200?! What?!
The S4 is 649 euro's....
And you're asking if I'd be willing to pay even more?! What the hell do you expect us to pay, 1200 euros?!
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2

Pat. said:
Ass
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
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In response to your unedited post....the whole point is to not have to wait for these glaring bugs and QC issues to be fixed. By that time newer phones will be out.

ShadowLea said:
$200?! What?!
The S4 is 649 euro's....
And you're asking if I'd be willing to pay even more?! What the hell do you expect us to pay, 1200 euros?!
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
LOL No, no i wasnt suggesting anything that drastic. Maybe a 50 dollars/euros increase.
PC compenent manufacturers do something similar with their "binned" versions of hardware; where they cherry pick chips/ram/vrm/controllers and sell the finished product at a slightly higher price. im not saying we should necessarily have a "binned" and regular versions of phones, but what Im hoping for is for phone manufacturers to do better inspection, better testing, and hold higher standards for what they release out in the market, even if the price goes slightly above what the consumers are use to be paying

: D
yea fair enough, I just thought "Ass" was funnier.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app

I'm with you, except I disagree with paying more. If these companies want to lead the market, they HAVE to test them thoroughly before they sell them. I will say that I think Google's level of testing is very high. For that reason, I think I'm only going to get Nexus phones until they give me a reason not to.

I would pay more for a phone if everything worked and was good quality. i mostly do development with my phones and the phone i have right now has always had gps issues with none of the fixes ive ever found to help. quality damnit!

Ecksera said:
I would pay more for a phone if everything worked and was good quality. i mostly do development with my phones and the phone i have right now has always had gps issues with none of the fixes ive ever found to help. quality damnit!
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Click to collapse
I'm with you! You can change software but not quality hardware

LOL
:laugh:
very long article. i would like to pay more only if i found it is worth , for example the hardwarequality , antishock , and more

I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.

Mitt Romney jr, is that you?

KrissN said:
I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I think the manufacturers know how to make good hardware and software they are just rushed to release a new phone before their competitor releases theirs. Maybe phones could be released like cars. Then we could all wonder what the "2014's will look like".
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium

JustLiveIt said:
I agree. I think the manufacturers know how to make good hardware and software they are just rushed to release a new phone before their competitor releases theirs. Maybe phones could be released like cars. Then we could all wonder what the "2014's will look like".
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I think we're reaching that point now, actually, or not far from it. This new x phone that leaked it a great example. Last year's hardware, but the idea is probably going to be more about good battery life or something like that.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

lol if someone if switching from Apple, it tends to be for better reason than never-modding or some stock FW aesthetic.
Honestly, ~$600-850 for new phones that are marginally better than last quarter's is already asking quite a bit, so even more and I'll just go back to old brick phones for all the right reasons.
Also our US carriers butchering hardware for god knows what purpose into clunky excuses for what originals were supposed to be.
I'm not really all that happy with the whole smartphone boom over the past 4 years. I quite enjoyed when these toys required proper owners who even knew of their existence.

I DO NOT want to pay more for a phone.
Why ?
Because the $600 or $700 tag already is several hundred dollars over material cost. Yes, they need to account for labour, shipping, and profit but take a look at Google and the Nexus line. Is it because Google can afford to take a loss on the hardware knowing that by using it you'll drive their revenue ? I don't think they would sell at a loss, but I'm open to being moderately surprised if that is the case. I'd guess they're breaking even.
There's no point in paying more for things that could be improved at the same price-point and still drive profit.
What WOULD help ?
Stop signing contracts that screw you for a subsidized phone. They have no incentive to make those phones as perfect as they can - they need some reason for you to keep re-signing that contract two years from now - they WANT you to be wanting to get rid of that phone. Why would they keep updating the firmware when they don't even want you to be using it two years from now ? Why not just have you keep paying them high monthly fees so you can get a "newer and better" phone for cheap (a cost they'll recover from you and then some) ?
What would help is people moving to buying their phones outright and demanding more for what they are paying - driving the market by where they're willing to spend money.
I don't think the components of a smartphone are "not cheap". They kind of are since the material cost is only $2-300. That's less than a decent desktop PC. Yes, it's a decent chunk of change but we're talking smartphones here, they're nice to have but still a luxury good (although I'd agree that a regular cell phone is not a luxury in this day and age). Many people pay more than $300 for a pair of shoes - a pair of Allen Edmonds is $350 ffs and that's $350 on some leather and stitching that people get romantic about - not an electronic device that can pinpoint your location by GPS, holy your music library, and play Netflix. A smartphone is a tiny computer, I would expect it to be priced as such.
So, no, please don't "charge me more" when there is no reason to. Please just have some quality control, although I don't really think it's a big deal because I'm not picky I guess. O well.

The theory behind what you're saying makes sense, but in reality at least here in Canada the prices have already increased a lot the past 3 years.
HTC desire came out almost 3 years ago here in Canada and it was the flagship phone. Full price no contract was $449.99. Then the HTC desire HD came out as its predecessor and it was $499. The desire z was also 499 launching around that time too.
The HTC one s was I think $550 and the one x $599 but dont quote me on that.
Now the HTC one is $650 and others from Samsung are $700. Iphones have always been more but I'm pretty sure they have been increasing steadily as well. So really how much do you want them to increase it? I take it you're very wealthy. Lol
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app

You're paying for the brand most of the time.. not actual quality

KrissN said:
I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd agree with that.. I honestly don't see it as as price issue. The life cycles of new phones currently is ridiculous. It seem like by the time one concept is finalized they move on to "the next big thing" and try to mass produce as many of the currently "new" product before next version is released, sometimes in less than a year.

I' m good with mine...
To be completely honest, I got my phone for.99 cents and have never been happier...I don't need multi window nonsense on it and with dev ROMs on here I am fixing to get 4.2.2. So for that price who cares if it burns up but my first and only one is bug free and fast after the OC kernel soooo....
sent from my SGH-I577/Slimbean/1.5oc LZ kernel

I'm not sure how much benefit a manufacturer has to gain from creating a premium smartphone.
Such a project will cost untold amounts of resources with no real promise of consumer acceptance.
Apple pretty much set the precedent for competitive pricing with the $200 subsidized price tag. It has become the main reference point when consumers consider their purchases. New Android phone, specs x, y, and z for $300. Well, the immediate thought is going to be... "so what makes this so great that it is $100 above the iPhone's price tag?"
That is why I think the smartphone market does not have room for a "high end", because the $200 range is already a high end.

Waterproof S4 confirmed "S4 Active"

Ya ya ya, every news article doesn't need its own thread...but sorry, this one does just as much as the Google Edition
Here's the link, instead of me giving you the "jist"
http://www.redmondpie.com/images-of-galaxy-s4-active-waterproof-samsung-flagship-smartphone-leaked/
...Wow, and I was about to get the sammy S4 this week too...guess I might wait now once again lol

i am so mad right now. i dont think i can exchange my phone now. good one samsung..release ur flagship that is made from plastic and release another device with the exact same specs, but with waterproofing and better build!

Itll most likely be more expensive. If that wasnt implied lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

As a Z user, I aswell am a little peeved. But all is well, I guess.

Well it says that the phone is only water "resistant" on GSM Arena, CNET & Sammobile and also that the camera has been downgraded to 8 megapixel.
http://www.gsmarena.com/see_the_samsung_galaxy_s4_active_for_the_first_time-news-6069.php
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57585356-1/shots-leaked-of-galaxy-s4-active/
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/05/20/samsung-galaxy-s4-active-leaked/

Liquipel has confirmed that they will have waterproofing available for our devices.
$80 isnt bad either.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

EpicMango said:
Ya ya ya, every news article doesn't need its own thread...but sorry, this one does just as much as the Google Edition
Here's the link, instead of me giving you the "jist"
http://www.redmondpie.com/images-of-galaxy-s4-active-waterproof-samsung-flagship-smartphone-leaked/
...Wow, and I was about to get the sammy S4 this week too...guess I might wait now once again lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes !! Now my dreams of playing words with friends in the bathtub will finally become reality !!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app

liquipel...

Bender B. Rodgriguez said:
Yes !! Now my dreams of playing words with friends in the bathtub will finally become reality !!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pretty sure some other people will have different type of playing in the bathtub with this phone. Could be there dreams too!

MrPlNK said:
Liquipel has confirmed that they will have waterproofing available for our devices.
$80 isnt bad either.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Liquipel is a gimmick when used on cell phones. It's borderline being a scam actually.
The technology is impressive and it has merits but these demos of cell phones being dunked are very deceiving, let me explain why...
First off a little history with other gimmicks. Long time ago probably before many around here were kicking they used to demo these "amazing" knives under differing brands (Ginsu probably the most familiar). They would do crazy things with them at the displays in malls, fairs, etc. One was cutting deep grooves in the head of a hammer. People would reach for their wallet in droves to buy after seeing that. I mean a knife that could cut through a hammer? Problem is no one ever really scrutinized and realized the "hammer" had a head made of lead. Lead is very soft and any iron or ss blade will cut it with little dulling compared to say trying that on an Estwing. BTW if you did try this with a real hammer (I did!) you'd find your blade about as ruined as if you took a chainsaw to a steel door.
So what does this have to do with Liquipel and their demos? Simple. They never tell you what the "water" they use really is. I'm willing to bet it's distilled water with a very low conductivity. Others that have this treatment done to their devices are reporting their device stops working after a day or two! Of course, you're using tap water which has far more minerals and therefore much higher conductivity.
It gets even worse! The average spill (beer, soda pop, fruit juice, etc.) not only is much more conductive but can be acidic, leave sticky residues which are often highly hygroscopic (which means they will absorb moisture from the air when it gets humid, becoming active again), and this is just bad to have in your phone!
Toilet swims? Don't even ask!
Saltwater which a device would encounter if offshore fishing or beach going would probably be the worst thing ever that could happen to your phone.
Liquipel can keep the fluid from wetting your treated parts but it cannot keep it OUT of the chassis/enclosure. That's where this is flawed. Once you have fluid penetration (no sick jokes, please!) your device is contaminated and will never be the same. If you want a waterproof or water resistant device you must keep the water out, PERIOD! This requires a completely different strategy starting with the chassis and any physical interface that must connect from the outside to in. Real solutions are never pretty or compact. If you eliminated the headphone jack and USB port relying on wireless charging and bt/wifi for sound, etc. it would be possible. The buttons would be gasketed like waterproof wristwatches, for example. The speaker and mic would be a challenge depending on the water (depth) rating. A meter rating would be no real issue but 100 meters would!
Finally, getting your device treated gives you a false sense of security! There is nothing worse than believing you're OK when in fact you won't be as careful and allowing your device to get dunked!

cpufrost said:
Liquipel is a gimmick when used on cell phones. It's borderline being a scam actually.
The technology is impressive and it has merits but these demos of cell phones being dunked are very deceiving, let me explain why...
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, this is informative (ran out of thanks for today, so posting this
Regarding Active - it will have a smaller screen, and is only water resistant - highlighting this as I believe many people think it is also shock/impact proof.
Seidio is developing their Obex for SGS4, I will check it out once it is released, gives water and impact resistance.
http://www.seidioonline.com/samsung-galaxy-s4-obex-case-holster-black-p/bd2-hwssgs4-bk.htm
Although it is a niche product, adds too much bulk, and worsens the mic and speaker quality.

It's always about compromise. TBH if you're the active type that wants to keep your phone working the easiest way is to put it in the equivalent of a storm case. Otter makes one that's in the ATT stores. TBH that's the only way I would carry my phone to the beach. Sand gets into everything and wrecks it - fast!
I have actually seen folks at the beach using a macbook!
Don't worry, it won't be long before connectivity will be a part of life, thought reading, embedded devices, and anti tinfoil hat tech! :laugh:

How nice of that article to included a photoshopped pic above the actual sneak peaks.
The original link should be the OP of this thread:
http://www.gsmarena.com/see_the_sam...he_first_time-news-6069.php?utm_source=feedly

some updates...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxkQavIz9wA&feature=player_embedded

kreoXDA said:
thanks, this is informative (ran out of thanks for today, so posting this
Regarding Active - it will have a smaller screen, and is only water resistant - highlighting this as I believe many people think it is also shock/impact proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EpicMango said:
some updates...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxkQavIz9wA&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to some comments in the video, this phone is also only a dual core S4 Plus MSM8960, which is even further of a disappointment.

well you could always just but a waterproof S4 here https://www.liquipel.com/
or get your current phone treated.
I contacted them, they're still testing the treatment and it's effect on things like air gestures, etc. should be ready soon tho. I'm considering getting this done, but wonder how it effects things like heat venting, etc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app

soraxd said:
well you could always just but a waterproof S4 here https://www.liquipel.com/
or get your current phone treated.
I contacted them, they're still testing the treatment and it's effect on things like air gestures, etc. should be ready soon tho. I'm considering getting this done, but wonder how it effects things like heat venting, etc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should check the first page of this thread >.>

Solariis said:
You should check the first page of this thread >.>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should include post #'s because your post is on the first page of this thread, in my browser.
Phones & computers - we all have options for how many posts we want to view on a single page.
It's post #10 btw.

Worse camera.
It has a worse camera. Only 8 pm. Although, it is much better looking the the stock GS4.

SamMobile has stated that ACTIVE will have OLED in one article and TFT LCD in another??????
Which is it?
¢ via SGH-I317

What if its the Clone Wars?

So im at work and i had this thought after watching a few YouTube video of clone comparisons of various phone to their real counterparts and was wondering if some of these issues plaguing the Note 7 were actually bring cause by not actual Note 7's but clones of the Note 7.
To the average person it is hard to differentiate the actual phone from the fake so its highly possible that a $150 Chinese knock off could in fact be the culprit.
These phones are made to look like the Note 7 all the way down to the usb type C charging port but done with sub par part to include the batteries. So in my mind its possible that some could have bought a fake, caused it to catch fire in order to take advantage of Samsungs poor misfortune in dealing with the few rare instances of fires in order to get money, a real note 7, or just notoriety.
A lot of people claiming to have suffered these fires have failed to cooperate with samsung in order to investigate the incident.
What do you guys think of my theory?
Sent from my SM-N930P using XDA-Developers mobile app

Its definitely possible it's sabotage but I think there maybe different parties involved. I think the first recall was legit but this 2nd round I believe a competitor saw a vulnerbility and took advantage of it
Sent from my SM-N930P using XDA-Developers mobile app

thing I find interesting, is it appears the carriers are at fault for sales stopping this second time. Supposedly the phones are still having trouble, but the stories were really hard to find and not blown out in mass panic like last time. Seems the CPSC has been really quiet about the fact they had to give approval on all replacement devices (and I would assume did so) which means that if the units are still having trouble, they are now just as much at fault as Samsung (least IMHO.)
on more interesting news, apparently the release the CPSC did the other day, 10/10, about the samsung note 7 replacements being a problem, they have to give the MFG 10 days notice before they can release the statement, and if samsung pushed back, they'd have 5 days to revise it.
Assuming they did properly give a 10 day notice to samsung, that means that they notified samsung on 10/1 that the replacements were a problem.
we should also fear the fact that they are trying to give the CPSA the ability to just throw reports out about products without talking to the MFG first, which means who the heck knows what will get recalled now for incorrect reasons. No one will get a chance to investigate anymore. Just instant panic and recalls.
It's a shame car recalls don't work like this, have cars driving around that can shoot shrapnel into peoples faces and yet they are slowly replacing them in existing cars but actively producing them for new cars in a greater volume at the same time.

Funny how the last 5 days or so not one report of one "exploding" but for the week prior it seemed it was everyday.
Now surely not everyone has returned there phone.
Just don't seem rite.
Sent from my SM-N930P using XDA-Developers mobile app

Chances of a variant of this phone

In the past, Asus has been keen to release an assortment of phones per generation. Sometimes they were not the usual variety based on budget, rather, Asus would often release models that would be more of a master of a certain trade than its sibling and vice versa.
Point being, what is the probability that Asus will release a variation of this phone with an AMOLED display? I know it's a petty thing to ask, but I'm just antsy because the IPS screen is the one thing holding me back from throwing my money at Asus immediately and commending this as the greatest smartphone of all time, on paper (lol).
What are your thoughts?

The probability is zero.

nykreimox said:
In the past, Asus has been keen to release an assortment of phones per generation. Sometimes they were not the usual variety based on budget, rather, Asus would often release models that would be more of a master of a certain trade than its sibling and vice versa.
Point being, what is the probability that Asus will release a variation of this phone with an AMOLED display? I know it's a petty thing to ask, but I'm just antsy because the IPS screen is the one thing holding me back from throwing my money at Asus immediately and commending this as the greatest smartphone of all time, on paper (lol).
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take it like this. How many phones have you seen that after release (that is to say after fully revealing all the specs of the phone and selling the first batch to the public), they change specs such as screen technology (which is a huge change)?
Cant do a full research on that but i can almost guarantee that the answer will be zero LOL. Unless a manufacturer encounters an unfixable issue with the screen for which they would be forced to change to another technology, i don't think they will release one with AMOLED display. (and maybe not even that, maybe if there is a huge unfixable issue they would decide to skip the whole phone and just stop the manufacturing and move on to a newer model (with a different name, and fixed issues). We can take for example the Note 7 and their batteries, or the galaxy fold, or the many lg series phones with the bootloop issues (at least some of them) and the list can go on and on. But.... If you can find an AMOLED screen manufacturer maybe he/she can help you out

Personally I wouldn't worry about the screen. You may want to do some research on the flipping camera module as there seems to be a number of complaints around its functionality. If there's problems with it already, I can only imaging it getting worse the longer one has the phone in use. Also, there are now people complaining about boot-loops and constant UI freezes. I think Asus needs to get on top of these issues yesterday or this will turn out to be a big flop.

jinkerz9430 said:
Take it like this. How many phones have you seen that after release (that is to say after fully revealing all the specs of the phone and selling the first batch to the public), they change specs such as screen technology (which is a huge change)?
Cant do a full research on that but i can almost guarantee that the answer will be zero LOL. Unless a manufacturer encounters an unfixable issue with the screen for which they would be forced to change to another technology, i don't think they will release one with AMOLED display. (and maybe not even that, maybe if there is a huge unfixable issue they would decide to skip the whole phone and just stop the manufacturing and move on to a newer model (with a different name, and fixed issues). We can take for example the Note 7 and their batteries, or the galaxy fold, or the many lg series phones with the bootloop issues (at least some of them) and the list can go on and on. But.... If you can find an AMOLED screen manufacturer maybe he/she can help you out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points, but not really in the scope of what I was wondering. I said *variant*, not replacement. I am questioning weather the situation would occur where Asus would keep the IPS model as a cheaper alternative to a more premium AMOLED model.
The most tricky problem when it comes to this situation is what the heck else Asus would add to the "more premium" AMOLED model to make it any more appealing than the "budget" IPS model, since the Zenfone 6 offers more beyond the screen than most competitors in the price range of $500+AMOLED=roughly $630 (adjusted for adequate profit) by MILES.

jaseman said:
Personally I wouldn't worry about the screen. You may want to do some research on the flipping camera module as there seems to be a number of complaints around its functionality. If there's problems with it already, I can only imaging it getting worse the longer one has the phone in use. Also, there are now people complaining about boot-loops and constant UI freezes. I think Asus needs to get on top of these issues yesterday or this will turn out to be a big flop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yikes, that is spooky. I'd hope to not worry about the camera module as its almost literally a pet idea I'd had sketched in my brain for years that would be one of the best instances of killing two birds with one stone I'd ever imagine: solving the offensively awful quality of selfie cams (which I don't use as much as most but the few times I need it are important) and destroying the bane of my interest in new smartphones known as notches with one stone.
However, AMOLED is near a requirement seeing as I use my current IPS equipped phone for rhythm games and other input intensive tasks and sorely miss the lower latency of my previous AMOLED phone. Night and day stuff, for me.

jaseman said:
Also, there are now people complaining about boot-loops and constant UI freezes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please, calm down. They tinkered with Developer options...
https://forum.xda-developers.com/zenfone-6-2019/help/uk-shipping-date-t3933035/post79765293
But anyway ASUS confirmed this animations bug, it'll be resolved in the next update.

_jis_ said:
Please, calm down. They tinkered with Developer options...
https://forum.xda-developers.com/zenfone-6-2019/help/uk-shipping-date-t3933035/post79765293
But anyway ASUS confirmed this animations bug, it'll be resolved in the next update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am calm...but to have such issues out-of-the-box is unacceptable. But none of what you point to as a bug fixes the problem with the camera module rattling, or not opening or closing properly. Is that a bug? Can software fix mechanical issues? I read where people are using strategically placed strips of duct tape to "solve" the rattling problem. So maybe Asus can throw in a small roll of duct tape along with a clear case? Yes, some people say theirs doesn't rattle or make added noise when the vibration motor is activated. So is this going to be a hit-or-miss proposition? What about when the module loosens from continual use, and someone wants Asus to do something about it, and they just say it's normal wear-and-tear, not covered by warranty? (Let's face it...this camera is a novelty and most people who get one are going to be flipping this thing in and out until the fat lady sings.) No offense to the more rotund feminine gender out there!!!
Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in this phone for many reasons, but along with limited/missing LTE bands, and a possibly faulty camera module design, I will wait until there are many more end users here in the US who give us their personal hands on reviews to make my decision. I never buy any tech of any kind without doing my homework.

nykreimox said:
I am questioning weather the situation would occur where Asus would keep the IPS model as a cheaper alternative to a more premium AMOLED model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But this is exactly what im talking about. Here is how the market works most of the time. If i give you all the specs of a product before hand (including all the models i will be releasing), i take the liberty To make an event so that people can see what im offering and to test it. and i start selling each model of that product. Then all of the suden i decide to add an extra model out of the blue, now that's a risky move from where they might lose rather than gain. Lets number the issues that could happen.
1) People who already bought the IPS screen models would probably not buy it if there are things they already consider as defect (but might no be) in the phone (This alone decreases the sales by a good portion).
2) The cost of production will obviously increase with AMOLED screens, which in terms would also make the sale price of that model to significantly increase. (One of the main reasons this phone is being sold somewhat good is the price, and you will most likely see prices of at least $900+ on that new variant (which in terms kills the appealing price the zenfone has).
3) Following on issue two, (if asus decides to sell the AMOLED screens for repairments, that will obviously increase the repairment price of a cracked screen (accidentally or not accidentally). Believe it or not, more and more people are getting involve on the *fixing their own phones* thing now a days. Some of them will completely disregard the new variant with AMOLED released just because the dont deem it worthy if the cost of the screen repairs exceeds a certain price (which its often the case with AMOLED screens).
4) Following on issue 3, a portion of people are aware of Burn In screens that might develop on AMOLED screens (which we all know it is irreversible). Like always, a portion of people will end up wanting an exchange for a new phone within the warranty time given, then asus have 2 options there: give the customer a new phone if he is not satisfied with the screen performance (because lets say he left the screen on in google maps for 8 hours straight and the status bar got burned into the display, or basically any other app that if left untouched with the screen on for a long time, it might develop burn in image); or withstand the depreciation/anger they will have from those who got the AMOLED variant and got Burnt image on their phones.
These are probably the major issues they could face by doing this out of the blue. (It is just a volatil move). They could have done it if they had announced it along with the other ones at the same time. But now, their best move could be to wait for the next zenfone the are planning to release in the future.
Here is a Bonus issue: I can say with confidence that at the moment of dispatching the phones they might deliver the wrong products since whats going to change is just the screen. (which means returns, exchanges, more time for the consumer to wait, and some bad reviews (like any angry customers would attribute for a very silly mistake) lol)

Your reply is again all about malfunctioning camera mechanism despite that I commented just this your sentence "Also, there are now people complaining about boot-loops and constant UI freezes." I give you the post right here on XDA why it is happening and that this bug will be rectified. But these poor users have caused it to themselves, they made changes at the developer level, and not recognize the negative consequences of doing so, they didn't understand the causal link between the changes they made themselves and the phone's behavior. And then they complained about a broken phone.
jaseman said:
I never buy any tech of any kind without doing my homework.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When doing your homework you missed above information, so that's why I came up with a fix for this fake news, not just for you, but mainly for others.
I don't even comment about your hijacking of this thread.