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multi-touch WTH!
ok.. so i just read this:
VentureBeat claims that Apple specifically asked Google not to use Multi-Touch in their Android platform and Google agreed. The report comes from an unidentified member of the Android team:
Apple, which of course makes the signature multi-touch mobile device, the iPhone, apparently asked Google not to implement it, and Google agreed, an Android team member tells us.
WTH!
I dont see how Apple even got away with patenting multi touch on a touch screen in the first place. Apple has gone overboard with patenting and it seems everything they see now, they patent. I'm surprised they havent tried to patent the wheel since its standard for older iPods.
I'm sure with captive or whatever screens the iphone and g1 use, its gonna have multi touch anyways. Captive screens are built for multi touch and Google/HTC coded it in to not use it but it was only a matter of time before people unlocked it.
I thought Apple actually patented the gestures and not the multi touch part tho. Since G1 doesnt do gestures than I would think Google is in the safe.
I've owned a few iPods and own a Classic iPod now but damn, Apple really blows.
Yep. It's what many people have been saying for a long time.
Never forget that the Google CEO Eric Schmidt is on the Apple board of directors. He'll never compete with Apple unless he absolutely must.
Even the Android move was done simply to meet the major hole in their strategy for mobile devices but he obviously chose to leave Apple their differentiating factors.
Also notice that apps are being released with an iPhone priority first, then Android?
It pisses me off particularly because I don't think Apple has a leg to stand on with their "patent". Multi-touch, specifically the gestures that they claim, have been around for longer than Apple or Fingerworks. Look up Jeff Han from his TED demonstration in 2005. Pinching, zooming, flicking motions, etc.
I think Google just wants to let Palm fight it out with Apple and when it is determined that the pinch and other gestures are not patentable by Apple, Google will be out there with Synaptics and other companies releasing some gesture standards.
Google is just playing nice for now.
A comment i read stated that although multi-touch isn't included it is supported so if some third party developer wants to use it they can. Result- end user gets the features they want and google keeps its hands clean.
As for the apple apps first - i imagine that's just because there's more revenue potential from iphones. At the moment anyway
incidently I have jf RC8 1.4, is there something I need to do to enable multi-touch in the browser?
Google has separate teams for iphone apps and android so its not a matter of apple getting apps first, its a matter of where they are in their development cycle.
Android got latitude first right? Its not yet available for the iphone.
dwang said:
Android got latitude first right? Its not yet available for the iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..... it is a google product, nothing to do with apple. I would certinaly hope so
moussam said:
Google is just playing nice for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly. if google was really afraid of apple, i think the iphone would start losing some of its beloved google apps. which would just be hilarious.
later on, multi-touch may just become the standard. apple can't hold onto it forever, and even if they do.. well that's why i love android.
Remember Google is in it to win it. Yes they have a os, but there are EVERYWHERE. And will take their time. I agree put the code in and let other create for it. Keeping their hands clean.
Smart boogers they are
Apple asked Google not to use multi-touch in Android, and Google complied
MG Siegler | February 9th, 2009
One of the bigger complaints about T-Mobile’s G1, the first phone based on Google’s Android platform, is that its touch screen doesn’t use multi-touch, the technology which allows for a screen to accept multiple points of contact as simultaneous input. Now we may know why.
Apple, which of course makes the signature multi-touch mobile device, the iPhone, apparently asked Google not to implement it, and Google agreed, an Android team member tells us.
Further, the Android team member went on to say that they were relieved that Google didn’t go against Apple’s wishes, given the legal storm that appears to be brewing between Apple and Palm, which is using multi-touch technology in its new Pre phone. Even if Apple ultimately decides not to pursue legal action against Palm (it’s not yet clear how likely that is, but Apple does have an impressive array of patents), the situation has likely soured the relationship between the two companies. Google, it seems, wants no part in ruining its relationship with Apple.
And that makes sense. While the connection between Apple and Palm would seem like it should be strong, given how many former Apple employees now work at Palm, Google and Apple are actually more aligned. Not only does Google specially tailor a ton of its products for the iPhone (both with apps like Maps and Google Search, and specially formatted webpages), but its chief executive, Eric Schmidt, is on Apple’s board of directors. And don’t underestimate the fact that both share a chief rival: Microsoft.
Recent demonstrations (video below) have proven that the G1’s screen and Android are capable of handling multi-touch, so some people seemed confused that Google and HTC (which makes the G1) wouldn’t implement it. Now we know. The larger question going forward is, will multi-touch become important enough that Google has to include it in Android? After all, there are going to be a ton of Android-based phones come out this year, many that just have large screens like the iPhone (and get rid of the G1’s crappy keyboard). You can bet there will be pressure on Google to include multi-touch support in Android — especially after the Pre comes out.
On an related side note, the Android team member also confirmed that Intel has a massive effort underway related to Android. We reported at the end of last month that Intel was prepping to help with a large rollout of Android-based netbooks, possibly as soon as this year. It’s still not entirely clear what specifically Intel is doing on its end, but despite what some may think, it is heavily involved, our source contends.
Intel has been backing the Moblin project (mobile Linux), and it has now shifted its focus onto Netbooks for this year, jkOnTheRun’s Kevin Tofel noted recently. It seems that in some way it wants to be involved with Android too (though, Tofel noted in our comments on the other post that Android likely runs better on ARM architecture rather than Intel’s).
Our source confirmed that many different Android netbooks, as well as other Android-based projects are in the works. And that China is a hotbed for Android-based activity right now.
from:
http://venturebeat.com/2009/02/09/a...se-multi-touch-in-android-and-google-complied
Its only a matter of time before Apple claims to have invented air and will be charging us for every breath
oh, I am sorry... I didn't notice there already was a thread...
some nice mod merged it.
just keep in mind that its the 'gesture' that is patented, not the ability to have a multitouch input.
urgent - quickly separate multitouch from jf's version
as seen in other posts, apple got the patent for multitouch now. they announced to fight against everyone, who copies their feature. although this is meant in the direction of palm and maybe microsoft, this could concern us (and jesusfreke), too.
my suggestion is to separate multitouch from jf's version to avoid that jf is being sued by apple. maybe someone else with another account on xda, who doesn't care about being sued by apple could release the multitouch app for a short time and then ban it to the rapidshare hell...
For the mods: I don't believe that apple has the right to claim the patent for multitouch as others were quicker (microsoft). So I think this isn't a suggestion for illegal things but a tactic to avoid a legal action with unknown result. If you think, this post is not appropriate, let's discuss this first before closing the thread. Otherwise you would have to close the jf thread, too (I hope you won't do this).
They didn't patent all of multitouch. See http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/
i dont think apple would come after a single independant developer..... bad PR.... but would go after palm or M$ without any hesitation........ i dont really understand how they can patent something like that anyway.... its like patenting using a steering wheel......
It'll most likely be thrown out.
They're just using it to buy time for steve jobs to recover from cancer
I remember - not long ago - that palm was suing forum members that used the name "palm" for their forum. they didn't mind the bad PR. So I wouldn't be too sure, that they won't try to prevent someone having multitouch on a competiting device. They "asked" google to keep away from multitouch an they followed. If erverybody (the jf thread has 119,850 views, even if 19,850 are from me ) can have multitouch on the G1, they won't be happy with that.
And that's no secret of a little community. In nearly every article about the G1, jf'S version is mentionned, so apple knows about that.
So just to be sure that we don't have to raise funds for JF's legal action...
If it's possible, make it happen. Some people here already asked for a version without multitouch because some apps don't work anymore and future apps won't be supported by multitouch.
Just publish within EU
Such **** (SW patents) still doesn't fly in EU, so just publish it (t)here (rapidshare is in EU, AFAIK)
that was one of the sites...
http://www.palmpowerups.com/PalmPowerups.php?s=
i have read some post from Nvidia.. im just kinda confuse..
http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-stop-supporting-harmony-platform-past-froyo
do they really trashing our tablet ? no more drivers for future updates?
that's an old article and speculation has been around since it's original release. From updated stories, Nvidea claims that it WILL provide support IF the manufacturers request it. It's confusing becuase Nvidea says it wants Honeycomb from Google, Viewsonic wants drivers from Nvidea. Google won't approve use of their market or code for Viewsonic, and of course, WE want it all.
So, as it stands right now:
Google will only release Honeycomb to their approved vendors
Nvidea wants Honeycomb, and will support Harmony boards IF manufactureres request it
Viewsonic will update what they currently have, but can't advance their Harmony based products without Nvidea's cooperation.
WE are sitting with Froyo systems with no hardware acceleration becuase either Nvidea isn't providing it, or Viewsonic is not requesting it (or it cant be done) and getting Honeycomb is a pipe dream, since that all depends on Google.
I think I summed it up nicely, but there are a plethora of posts dealing with this exact topic.
That's why my next device is gonna be an apple ipad. They support their devices after more than 3 years. I will never buy anything with the damn android logo or OS on it. Screw you Google, screw you all android companies, you deserve it. I can't believe that I bought 2 new gtablets to become obsolete and without future in the moment I opened the box. If that's the "experience" that google want from android users, so well I got the "experience", now you can make a roll with android and stuck where you know, Google and Android
By the way I know this is old news, but each company is throwing the ball to others and I see they don't give a damn about users.
It's not Google's fault.
It is Google fault for not given permission to companies for using the sources needed, and the companies for no giving support to android. It is Google fault for the mess a Google Market, being not accessible to a most devices, and for the mess with all android versions.
So go and kiss Google if you a fan of them, but don't take out the blame from them because they are guilty as the companies. For me is the end of all Google related products , I'm sick of them. They become the Microsoft of the 2000's.
Bye bye Google and Android.
kekinash said:
It is Google fault for not given permission to companies for using the sources needed, and the companies for no giving support to android. It is Google fault for the mess a Google Market, being not accessible to a most devices, and for the mess with all android versions.
So go and kiss Google if you a fan of them, but don't take out the blame from them because they are guilty as the companies. For me is the end of all Google related products , I'm sick of them. They become the Microsoft of the 2000's.
Bye bye Google and Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, only "Google experience" devices get full Market access... anyone can build an Android device... anyone can use Android... but they have to partner with Google to get Market access and early access to Android... Viewsonic does not have this partnership... (No, I'm not a die hard fan of Google, but I do love Android).
It's basically up to the manufactures to ask for Google support (and pay for it)...
kekinash said:
It is Google fault for not given permission to companies for using the sources needed, and the companies for no giving support to android. It is Google fault for the mess a Google Market, being not accessible to a most devices, and for the mess with all android versions.
So go and kiss Google if you a fan of them, but don't take out the blame from them because they are guilty as the companies. For me is the end of all Google related products , I'm sick of them. They become the Microsoft of the 2000's.
Bye bye Google and Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really.
Google sets certain standards that have to be met (primarily hardware features) on a device for that device to have "google support" which it basically Market, Gmail, Gtalk, etc....all the Google provided apps.
As mentioned....anyone can build a device and run Android on it.....download the source code from AOSP and go to town. However...AOSP doesn't have or support the Google proprietary apps (Market, Gmail, etc..).
So, it's not Google's fault, it's the device manufacturers fault for being cheap and not adding the required hardware components to the devices to gain Google support.
This is also another reason why Honeycomb (OS 3.0) hasn't been released to open source yet.....hardware requirements are changing (3G not required, etc...) but they are still wanting a cohesive tablet design.
All these cheap android tablets are built to be cheap....because most people only want to pay xx amount. This gets you a "non supported" device....but if you are on this board.....you know that going in on the purchase. It's the community of developers that increase the overall function and use of these cheap "non supported" tablets.
If you wanted a "Google supported" device, buy one. Xoom, Acer Iconia, ASUS Transformer, etc.... Not a Viewsonic Gtabet, 10s, Nook Color, Coby whatever, Folio 100, etc...etc...etc...
Apple makes the iPad and the iOS running on it.....of course they support it.
Viewsonic makes neither the device or the OS.
thank you tcrews. well said
with all of this being said, I bought a G-tab knowing that it wouldn't be an exceptional piece of hardware out of the box. I knew that it took tweeking. I love my Vegan 5.1.1 system, and enjoy using it every day for games, surfing, news, adding sheet music to it, downloading PDFs for upcoming meetings. It's much more convenient than taking a binder full of music, or a stack of papers into a meeting. My son can watch movies on it, or play games, and the battery lasts longer than my Acer netbook.
Is it the best thing on the market, HELL no...but it's also not the most expensive, either.
AAs far as Google partnerships, I suspect that it's their pressure that intimidates companies. After all, as was mentioned, if you want full Google support, you need to buy a partnered piece of hardware. They typically cost more, simply due to the partnership. SO, in the case of viewsonic specifically, the great devs here have devised a way to bypass the partnership (limited bypass, but still a bypass) So, what's Viewsonic's motivation to acquiring said partnership? If Nvidea is trying to get one, perhaps it was Google that stipulated that Honeycomb will not be available on their Harmony platform.
We all know that if the devs here have hardware drivers for Harmony, and eventually code for Honeycomb, EVERY g-tab owner will have both, without requiring Viewsonic to get a partnership with Google.
So, fault lies in a few places (although definitely not warrented or deserved)
1st, to viewsonic for making such a hackable device. We ALL love the fact that we can put on it, basically, whatever we want. this thing is easier to "jailbreak" than an iPod touch.
2nd, to the devs on this site. They have done WONDERFUL work, for FREE to make our experience what it should be. Indirectly, though, the fact that they've made it "look" so easy, would certainly lead to companies doing whatever it takes to protect their assets.
Think of it this way...Since Google makes profit on the sales of their "approved" devices, why on Earth would they want to give the devs here a chance to make the G-Tablet be able to keep up with the devices that are yet to come? It would be Google that would need to explain to Asus, Motorola, HTC, etc. why people aren't buying their golden tablets, over the discount priced G-tab.
My only complaint in all of this is that Gingerbread is a potential reality on the G-tab. The Harmony board will obviously support it and run it. I would be happy if Nvidea would continue development to make a "STOCK" G-tab perform the way that it's hardware was designed to perform. After that, the devs here could tweak it to make it perform better than anticipated. Once Nvidea updates their drivers to utilize all of the hardware acceleration that the Harmony board is capable of, then I would be fine if their abandoned it.
Hell, in all of this discussion, I find that of the 3 computers I own, 2 are running XP, one is running Vista. I'm obviously not a person that is into the "MUST HAVE THE NEWEST" mentality. I'm sure my Acer would nearly explode if I tried running Windows 7 on it, but I'm not upset...XP works fantastically on it. Same with the G-tab. Honeycomb may run, it may be glitchy, it may have bugs, it may make my G-tab explode...regardless, I'm happy with what I have, but would like the hardware acceleration that I know it can handle.
Todd
Thanks tcrews for the explanation, but I think that companies must put somewhere that the device they sell you doesn't have the blessing of google, or they can't access the market and that you will end with an unsupported and obsolete device after you bough it. for a mere 150 dollars more I can have a device that I know for sure is gonna be supported for more than a year. The same happened with my 2 android phones. I bought them and didn't see any update or fix for all the mess with the Android OS, and the same happens with a lot of devices or phones. The companies just put them on the market knowing that they will not be supported in the future. When it was a cheap phone, that was OK for me, but for a phone you pay more that 400 bucks it's an insult.
Simply put Android right now is a big mess, and will stay in the future far from it, until they fix the mess and companies start giving support to what they sell.
I share your view kekinash.
I don't care who's fault it is, the point is Android is a mess unless you want to get into development, hacking, etc. (All of which I can do to an extent).
I have an android phone made by Samsung, I've got the G-tablet, and I used to have a Motorola android phone. Each device has had a number of unexplained issues, of which no one tends to take responsibility for or any level of accountability. The fingerpointing I observed with my current Samsung phone is nothing short of comical. It's AT&T's issue, oh no, it's Samsung that does the software, oh no, you have to call Google "Android support". Nonsense.
My wife has had to iphones, and as much as I despise Apple, any issues (and they were minimal) were resolved quickly. And, you don't have the issue of the same app not working on the same version of the OS. Yes, Apple will discontinue support for older devices just like anyone else, but I've never fought with the iphone as much as I have to do circus acts with these Android-based devices.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect everyone's opinion. I love the Android "concept", but the execution, for me, is far from worth my time.
That's why, whether good or bad, an ipad costs what it does.
kekinash said:
That's why my next device is gonna be an apple ipad. They support their devices after more than 3 years. I will never buy anything with the damn android logo or OS on it. Screw you Google, screw you all android companies, you deserve it. I can't believe that I bought 2 new gtablets to become obsolete and without future in the moment I opened the box. If that's the "experience" that google want from android users, so well I got the "experience", now you can make a roll with android and stuck where you know, Google and Android
By the way I know this is old news, but each company is throwing the ball to others and I see they don't give a damn about users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why must we be bothered with cr-apple plugs on a Android forum? Just go over to cr-apple you don't have to announce it. These type of posts leads us to believe you are just a fanboy trolling.
Yeah, typical answer from a fanboy. I not married to either company, I just pointing the differences between both OS, on one (IOs) you get support, on the other (Android) you're at your own.
It's my right to criticize the things I see wrong, you may like it or not, agree or not, but you can't take this right from me, at least here at the States. And saying what another company is doing right is not to be a fanboy.
And by the way, if the developers here and in another places weren't doing a great job with Android, the OS will be a Sh*t, specially with the g tablet, so a big thanks goes to them. I using a non stock rom and this is the only thing that avoided to send back the 2 tables I have.
This thread is not being productive at all. Closed.
Hey XDA-Developers!
Today I decided to sell my iPad 2 to my mother (who needs one) for $200 and buy the 3rd generation tablet. After deducting the iPad 3rd gen from my taxes this year, it will come to about $200 to upgrade (which is worth it, IMO).
Anyways, I was looking at places to purchase an iPad 3rd generation when it hit me: "Why don't I get an Android tablet?"
I'm a big fan of Android on phones. However, due to the limited App category Android Tablets has, I've been leaning towards the 3rd generation iPad.
I love the customization and openness of Android - but I also love the huge variety and selection of Apps on the iPad.
I'm open to any suggestions, comments, advice, etc on this matter. I'd love to hear from someone who went from an iPad to an an Android tablet - or the other way around.
Thanks!
P.S: If I do decide to get an Android Tablet, I will most likely get the ASUS Transformer Prime.
iPad does not, and has never seemed like a tablet OS to me. Even though the, "improvements" on the third Gen seem minute to me and not worth the update, it's the better option.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
I think - and hope - that the tablet optimized app section will grow.
I LOVE Android on my Galaxy Tab 10.1 and I would never switch to iPad.
But in the end YOU have to know if there are apps on iPad that you really need...
I think you should search in the Market Play Store if you find all what you need. If you do, there is no reason why not to try an Android Tablet.
i think it depends..
im on mac os and id choose the ipad because its just easier and more comfortable to sync and stuff..
if id be on windows id choose the galaxy tab.
i think both have pros and contras
maybe you can lend at a shop and try both
Didn't see this posted in the forum, but I thought it was an interesting read (not saying I believe it all though)
CNNMoney.com said:
Google's got an Android problem
[/i]By David Goldman @CNNMoneyTech June 26, 2012: 11:46 AM ET[/i]
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- More than half of the world's smartphones run Android. That sounds like a pretty comfy perch for Google, but it's a precarious one -- and the historical tides that made Android such a stunning success are starting to swing in the opposite direction.
On Wednesday, Google (GOOG, Fortune 500) is slated to unveil the latest version of Android at its developers conference. Expect some victory laps. The four-year-old mobile operating system is the center of a thriving ecosystem, and Google has seamlessly integrated most of its key products into Android, including search, Gmail, Chrome, Maps, Voice.
That gives Google a prime position in the fast-growing mobile realm.
But Android's success is partially accidental. The software only took off when Verizon Wireless released the Motorola Droid in late 2009.
Verizon (VZ, Fortune 500) needed a weapon to counter AT&T's then-exclusive deal with Apple. It threw all its weight behind the Droid, which was the first true iPhone competitor on the nation's most popular phone network.
Kickstarted by Verizon, Android went on to become a strong iPhone alternative for virtually all other hardware makers and wireless carriers. Google's mobile OS held a 59% share of the smartphone market as of last quarter, IDC analysts said.
Android's climb is about to end, IDC thinks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/26/technology/google-android/index.htm?hpt=hp_t3
CNN said:
Android is climbing to an end, IDC thinks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why?
Android is thriving CNN!!!
-----------------
- Swift -, formerly known as IrishStuff09
- Swift - said:
Why?
Android is thriving CNN!!!
-----------------
- Swift -, formerly known as IrishStuff09
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Click to collapse
What I thought as well. From many articles I have read, the expectation is that there will be a slight dip in market share when iPhone5 is released then things will return to normal with Android maintaining its hold on the smartphone market.
GrandAdmiral said:
What I thought as well. From many articles I have read, the expectation is that there will be a slight dip in market share when iPhone5 is released then things will return to normal with Android maintaining its hold on the smartphone market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. Google is hiding stuff. Maybe a newer nexus with PB & J Android 5.0
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
IDC is naive in thinking that Android's climb is over. U.S. smartphone share just past 50% and elsewhere in the world there is even more room for growth. To count Android out of taking a cut in this is just stupid.
Android's success is no accident. One phone did not make Android a success. Google's business model did. It offered a free platform for device manufacturer to use. Even now, all other platforms either require a licensing fee or is not available for licensing. This is why Android is thriving.
As long as iPhones keep their hefty price tag, Android will always be around. I think many people are not willing to spend that much on a phone.
That being said, it's true that when the next iPhone comes out, Android may take a hit. The high end Android phones may lose a bit of their market share to iPhone 5, but that's about it. We've seen the same effect with iPhone 4 and 4S. So it's just gonna happen once again. Can't complain, competition is good!
rumours
I've seen more than one prediction that Androids climb will be slowed moving forward. Frankly I can see why.
Most articles like this also mention the rise of WP, which will be the wild card. WP8 has a lot of potential, combined with Nokia I can see great things moving forward. Honestly who doesn't want a Purview WP8 phone?
We'll see what happens but I see Android and WP duking it out for top stop in a few years. Couple that with W8Pro tablets.....
PS. Iphones will always be around, even though I'm sure their share will diminish greatly unless they pull one hell of an actual innovative rabbit out of their hats...
icechen1 said:
As long as iPhones keep their hefty price tag, Android will always be around. I think many people are not willing to spend that much on a phone.
That being said, it's true that when the next iPhone comes out, Android may take a hit. The high end Android phones may lose a bit of their market share to iPhone 5, but that's about it. We've seen the same effect with iPhone 4 and 4S. So it's just gonna happen once again. Can't complain, competition is good!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not only a phone, but an inferior one. Or overpriced.
Hopefully Android will be gone within 2 years.
Sent from my SGH-I777
Take it from the standpoint of a writer, that article was written for views.
When people want their blogging read by others, they post unpopular, unwarranted and even untrue opinions, facts, rumors, etc to attract the eyes of a reader.
Tell half a billion people you think the mobile OS they're running is going to fail...like that's not gonna get readers you guys got trolled
So did I, I came in here and read it too lol.
Hello all. First time post. Let me start off by thanking you for accepting me into this fine community.
I had to chuckle while reading some excellent posts on the good and bad points when it came to some of the performance and features of the Infinity.
The reason for the chuckle was because I had this forum opened in one tab of my browser, and Amazon opened in another. I had actually been looking over the contents on my shopping cart. In it was one(1) ASUS Infinity tablet. I placed the item there a few days ago, but for some reason I couldn't get myself to hit the "Submit Order" button. Something just didn't feel right about the purchase. The decision over which tablet to choose is becoming more and more confusing. With talk about what may or may not be available in the not too distant future re: New iPad, Windows 8, etc etc really has me hesitating at this juncture.
My two daughters each purchased the new iPad so at least I have an opportunity to get a feel of what that product has to offer. Unfortunately, detaching them from their new toy has been a struggle all its own. One of the main reasons for my looking at products other than Apple is that their products seems SO proprietary.
In any case, I think that I will keep visiting this forum for a while longer before I make a final decision as to which tablet to choose. My apologies for the long-winded post. Peter
Hi Peter,
Deciding what Tablet you want for yourself is a very personal decision. If you really don't care about the environment (iOS vs Android) and are just a casual user - I do have a recommendation. At the risk of being flamed, I would say to get an iPad.
It comes down to this: Apps make the ecosystem. While android is gaining in applications and games, and just put out a huge checklist for Tablet developers, apple has a better application and gaming experience for the average user. You are absolutely subject to the proprietary OS, but most people don't care. It's good enough.
I love android (and I suspect that many others do as well) for a few reasons. It's mine. It's fully customizable and I can but really cool community built OS's Recovieries, etc on it. I've learned a lot about how devices work and the things most people don't see. That said, I've had my share of problems too. Many users don't know enough and brick their devices trying to do something that sounds cool but they don't fully understand. If you're a casual user there is no need to get caught up in it. Apple does in fact set the standard for hardware and Android will briefly surpass it, but it's always a tight race. Also, there are a lot more accessories for the iPad then any tablet device. I also love it because I enjoy pushing the envelope and making things better. Finally I love the community around android. It's awesome that I see the same usernames popping up across our little section of XDA helping each other out, supporting each other, joking around, and disagreeing even. It's fun.
Also, for the casual user you can go to a nearby apple store and get your issues fixed if you mess something up.
The first decision you make should be an ecosystem/environmental one. Also, if you don't have itunes there is a bit of a learning curve. I don't think that Apple products have that "intuitive feel" everyone claims. Android just seems harder because there is more customization that can take place.
Before I get flamed - I'm not advocating for Apple or the iPad, but I am advocating for really thinking about what kind of device you want and what you want to get out of it before you make your decision.
Good luck and if you have you have more questions, we're happy to help!
Osteele said:
Hello all. First time post. Let me start off by thanking you for accepting me into this fine community.
I had to chuckle while reading some excellent posts on the good and bad points when it came to some of the performance and features of the Infinity.
The reason for the chuckle was because I had this forum opened in one tab of my browser, and Amazon opened in another. I had actually been looking over the contents on my shopping cart. In it was one(1) ASUS Infinity tablet. I placed the item there a few days ago, but for some reason I couldn't get myself to hit the "Submit Order" button. Something just didn't feel right about the purchase. The decision over which tablet to choose is becoming more and more confusing. With talk about what may or may not be available in the not too distant future re: New iPad, Windows 8, etc etc really has me hesitating at this juncture.
My two daughters each purchased the new iPad so at least I have an opportunity to get a feel of what that product has to offer. Unfortunately, detaching them from their new toy has been a struggle all its own. One of the main reasons for my looking at products other than Apple is that their products seems SO proprietary.
In any case, I think that I will keep visiting this forum for a while longer before I make a final decision as to which tablet to choose. My apologies for the long-winded post. Peter
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You are welcome here, whatever you decide, but if you go with another tablet or OS, please don't come and tease us about how much better/faster/cooler yours is than ours. that really gets on my nerves, lol!
But I'm sure you would never do that.
I would advocate that if you are interested in customising your tablet, the Infinity is a good one. First of all, it has a beautiful screen, will continue to receive firmware/OS updates and is finally starting to be well supported by some of the best developers in the Android ecosystem. Personally, I don't care about iOS on any level. It's far to closed a system for me, too limited. My Infinity , running CleanROM v1.3 with TWRP 2.3.0.0. recovery absolutely flies. It is super fluid and very powerful. I keep it connected to its keyboard dock and I take it off the charger at 5:30 a.m. and never have to charge again though 17 hour day of almost constant use. Much of that use is internet browsing and with the CleanROM tweaks, the stock browser performs incredibly well. I also have a flawless tablet and dock. Never any problems. I also take care of it, but nothing out of the ordinary...just keep it in its case...don't drop it or spill on it.
I've been using it instead of a laptop, and it just about replaces my desktop. Browsing is actually faster on the Infinity, and watching videos is a lot nicer. I haven't used the HDMI port, so I can't comment on it, but having the micro sd, the fullsize sd and full size USB ports means I never have to worry about not having enough storage...my 750GB WD Passport works perfectly in the USB port. That's a lot of movies.
Well, I know some people are worried about unlocking and voiding their asus warranty in order to flash custom software, but I found that a 2 year square deal warranty with accidental damage coverage works better for me anyway. It cost me $99, but I found out later that with a coupon I could have saved $30. Oh well.
Anyway, good luck with your decision!
wolfman87 said:
Hi Peter,
Deciding what Tablet you want for yourself is a very personal decision. If you really don't care about the environment (iOS vs Android) and are just a casual user - I do have a recommendation. At the risk of being flamed, I would say to get an iPad.
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Thank you so much for the quick response wolfman87. I wish that I could say that you've helped me move closer my ultimate decision. But of course you are absolutely right about that decision being a very personal one.
I suppose that there are so many factors that one may have to consider. It's so bizarre because I have been in IT for quite a while now and whenever a client asks for a quote on a new piece of hardware for example, the first question that I ask is: What exactly do you plan on doing with this new piece of hardware?
A liitle bit about myself:
Spend most of my time in a Windows client / server environment. (For better or worse my clients have dictated my skill-level)
Which is probably the reason that I am always looking to learn new things. Lately that has been:
Ubuntu desktop and server.
Virtual PBX (freePBX and Asterisk and PIAF)
Video Tutorials. Everything from Linux, jQuery, ASP .NET, Visual Studio, javascript.
Some of the things that I would like for a tablet to be able to do for me:
Receive and send email. Multiple Microsoft Exchange accounts required.
Connect remotely to client machines.
Browse the internet (many sites still require Flash)
Read all of the epub and pdf material that I now have sitting on my HP laptop
Would like to use a SIP client in order to dial thru my home based PBX with a secure VPN tunnel.
I enjoy recording music on my SSL Soundscape DAW.
Things that I found interesting about the Infinity:
Connectivity eg. HDMI - External storage - Dock
So far, I do not think that the iPad can offer any of these things. Unless I am wrong of course !!!
Once again, let me apologize for this long-winded response as well.
I thank you so much for your time and input. It is greatly appreciated.
Peter
okantomi said:
You are welcome here, whatever you decide, but if you go with another tablet or OS, please don't come and tease us about how much better/faster/cooler yours is than ours. that really gets on my nerves, lol!
But I'm sure you would never do that.
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Click to collapse
You are absolutely right okantomi, I would never come back to do such a thing. By the way, thank you for the great response. I suppose that some of the negative stuff that I read in certain sections of this forum got me a little nervous. I should know better. We don't live in a perfect world, and no ONE item is going to please everyone. This phenomema is what brings about change and improvement.
I will give it another day or two, discuss the purchase with my better half, then see what we come up with.
Have a great weekend. Peter
Here's my two cents... Above, someone mentioned apps... Basically, an iPad is just that - an interface to run apps. On the other hand, Android does so much more. Besides running apps, the OS itself is actually useful and a great productivity tool. The widgets that run on your desktop are simply awesome. Just by looking at my home screen, I can see my upcoming appointments, the time, the date, the weather, my Gmail account and my work email account (exchange). I can do all of that simply by turning the device on! When you turn on an Ipad you see icons - that's about it.
Add to that the features of the Transformer series, such as a keyboard dock with an extra battery, a trackpad, memory card readers, HDMI-out and a USB port and I think you can see just how powerful a Transformer running Android can be. I actually started out with an iPad 1 (as it was basically the first tablet available) - it was a great device - until I stumbled upon Android and the Transformer line! You really can do so much more with a Transformer than you can with an iPad. Hell - even this post - just try typing this on an iPad - it would take forever with the on-screen keyboard!
Like had already been stated - it all depends on what you want the device to do. For me, the iPad is just way too limiting. It may have more apps (for now - although that's beginning to change), but that is literally all that you can do with it - runs apps. There are no widgets. There is no way to expand upon the hardware (I.E. extra ports). It's very "basic".
Anyway, good luck deciding - I have a feeling that we'll be seeing you around these parts soon enough though!
By the way, don't let the "complainers" in this forum scare you off - it's mainly just so same few posters complaining over and over again. Or, it's folks that don't even own the TF700! It is deceiving - there are *many* happy TF700 users out there!
Sorry for the long post - it's just so easy to get long winded when you have a real keyboard to type with!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Osteele said:
Thank you so much for the quick response wolfman87. I wish that I could say that you've helped me move closer my ultimate decision. But of course you are absolutely right about that decision being a very personal one.
I suppose that there are so many factors that one may have to consider. It's so bizarre because I have been in IT for quite a while now and whenever a client asks for a quote on a new piece of hardware for example, the first question that I ask is: What exactly do you plan on doing with this new piece of hardware?
A liitle bit about myself:
Spend most of my time in a Windows client / server environment. (For better or worse my clients have dictated my skill-level)
Which is probably the reason that I am always looking to learn new things. Lately that has been:
Ubuntu desktop and server.
Virtual PBX (freePBX and Asterisk and PIAF)
Video Tutorials. Everything from Linux, jQuery, ASP .NET, Visual Studio, javascript.
Some of the things that I would like for a tablet to be able to do for me:
Receive and send email. Multiple Microsoft Exchange accounts required.
Connect remotely to client machines.
Browse the internet (many sites still require Flash)
Read all of the epub and pdf material that I now have sitting on my HP laptop
Would like to use a SIP client in order to dial thru my home based PBX with a secure VPN tunnel.
I enjoy recording music on my SSL Soundscape DAW.
Things that I found interesting about the Infinity:
Connectivity eg. HDMI - External storage - Dock
So far, I do not think that the iPad can offer any of these things. Unless I am wrong of course !!!
Once again, let me apologize for this long-winded response as well.
I thank you so much for your time and input. It is greatly appreciated.
Peter
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Click to collapse
This might be a jumble of thoughts - sorry in advance:
That's really good information actually. From the first post it sounded much more casual. Since the needs that you have are more technical I would lean towards the Android side of things (I think that there are more IT based applications for Android). You can definitely set up exchange accounts (not sure how many, but I know you can). You can also remote into other machines (VPN, I think RDP, etc.). Of course web browsing comes standard, even on the base model
If you are going to be doing a lot of emails the dock absolutely is worth it. for ~$100 (if you get the 201) you get basically a netbook KB and the extra battery life. I have a friend who uses a bluetooth KB for his iPad and it lasts a while itself, but doesn't increase the tablet uptime.
Also a few people are working on getting a distro of linux up on this. It's harder since the bootloader isn't the same as the older models, but I don't think that it's something you can do on the iPad.
If you aren't running any iDevices right now it makes sense to stick with Android/Windows as an ecosystem. My other advice is go to play.google.com and look around at the apps, specifically for what you want to do: (for example: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=SIP&c=apps). This will help you get a feel for what is out there and what you can do.
For hooking up to HDMI - I actually may have blown the port on mine recently - I still haven't tested it again. But I got the Square Trade warranty through amazon (2 years plus accidental damage) for about $75. They're a solid provider and while I hope I don't have to use them, they don't care if you voided your ASUS warranty with unlocking, etc.
If you you and your better half will be using the tablet, I would say to stick to the infinity since the screen is super crisp (I assume that for emails, PDF's, remote PBXing, you aren't worried too much about the resolution) and it gets bright in the outdoors (IPS+). I have an iPad 2 for work and it really is much better than even that screen. Not as good as the iPads, but the best on the market for android.
If you really don't care about the screen, there are other good models out there. The Infinity rocks in terms of horsepower and as I mentioned the screen. Those are probably the two BEST things about it. I figure (for me) it will last at least 2 maybe 3 years. (hopefully more)
Oh, as a note - try before you buy. The headset jack is a bit weird and if you do a lot of audio it takes a bit to get used to holding it closer to the top.
Oh, and no need to apologize for being long winded
To all you great folks who have taken the time to respond to my lenghty posts, my heartfelt thanks. I have to be very honest, and I hope that this doesn't come off sounding strange, I am not a huge APPS kinda guy. Maybe I am not up to speed with that whole apps thing, but I just can't see why some folks put so much emphasis on the procurement of apps. Let's face it, how many are you really going to need / use. Once you find the ones that do exactly what you need for them to do that should pretty much do it.
Well, that's just me talking of course. Perhaps it has a lot to do with the fact that most of the time I am using my machines for work and not so much for play.
Have yourselves a safe and enjoyable weekend!
Thank you
Peter
Osteele said:
I wish that I could say that you've helped me move closer my ultimate decision.
[...]
It's so bizarre because I have been in IT for quite a while now and whenever a client asks for a quote on a new piece of hardware for example, the first question that I ask is: What exactly do you plan on doing with this new piece of hardware?
[...]
Ubuntu desktop and server.
Virtual PBX (freePBX and Asterisk and PIAF)
Video Tutorials. Everything from Linux, jQuery, ASP .NET, Visual Studio, javascript.
Some of the things that I would like for a tablet to be able to do for me:
Receive and send email. Multiple Microsoft Exchange accounts required.
Connect remotely to client machines.
Browse the internet (many sites still require Flash)
Read all of the epub and pdf material that I now have sitting on my HP laptop
Would like to use a SIP client in order to dial thru my home based PBX with a secure VPN tunnel.
I enjoy recording music on my SSL Soundscape DAW.
Things that I found interesting about the Infinity:
Connectivity eg. HDMI - External storage - Dock
So far, I do not think that the iPad can offer any of these things. Unless I am wrong of course !!!
Once again, let me apologize for this long-winded response as well.
I thank you so much for your time and input. It is greatly appreciated.
Peter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If web browsing is a must -- and for most of us, it is -- then pretty much any Android machine wins over any iDevice because of Flash support (even with the support detracted on JB devices, you can still sideload the apk and it will still work).
Shell connection has several (free) apps available. I do that from home, mostly, so I do not have really extensive experience with them.
EPub and PDF -- Mantano all the way (I use it for both technical reading (medical and biochemical literature, mostly) and leisure reading (although that is non-fiction as well, mainly (astro)physics, quantum dynamics, archeology -- the high resolution screen REALLY helps in that corner, for it renders formulae, graphs, tables, and such just beautifully!).
To me, given both private and work use, TF700 hands-down, but as has been said oftentimes on this thread already, it's your choice. And indeed you are welcome in here anyway.
Osteele said:
[...]I am not a huge APPS kinda guy. Maybe I am not up to speed with that whole apps thing, but I just can't see why some folks put so much emphasis on the procurement of apps. Let's face it, how many are you really going to need / use. Once you find the ones that do exactly what you need for them to do that should pretty much do it.
Well, that's just me talking of course. Perhaps it has a lot to do with the fact that most of the time I am using my machines for work and not so much for play.
Have yourselves a safe and enjoyable weekend!
Thank you
Peter
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Click to collapse
It does make a major difference whether you use the 700 for work alone or also for leisure activity. I have two kids, aged 4 and 2, and they love tablet -- and they're ever handier than me. :S The app thingy is an ongoing search for the best-performing launcher, the best-performing office application, etc. -- and a lot of it is hoarding (I have enough games purchased-but-not-played-yet to last me for the next decade-and-a-half, hahaha!).
(Oh, and sometimes, an app is really good for all things it does, but it doesn't incorporate a feature you need. You then find another app that does, but that one either has a clunky interface (preventing everyday use) or misses some feature the other app did provide... and so on, and so on. )
Jtrosky already tackled this, but I wanted to emphasize it a bit: currently, only a small minority has devices that display major faults. Don't let the few posts about them detract you from trusting the TF700.
I was one of the many that noticed low I/O performance, which is the one issue that is faithfully reproducible, I guess -- and although not eliminated entirely, it has been greatly improved upon by recent updates. I was one of the instigators of the "I/O pressure" -- I unashamedly admit -- and I think we did the right thing in being so vocal. I love my 700, though, and I am easily standing up against the many friends carrying iDevices around (with regards to both screen quality, battery life, physical keyboard, and connection options (main USB, (micro)SD cards)...
Have a good and merry weekend yourself as well!
MartyHulskemper said:
If web browsing is a must -- and for most of us, it is -- then pretty much any Android machine wins over any iDevice because of Flash support (even with the support detracted on JB devices, you can still sideload the apk and it will still work).
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Click to collapse
Good morning Marty, and thank you for your valuable input. Undoubtedly, you seem to be getting the most out of your trusty tablet. I am happy to hear that.
I am going to take in all I can about tablets in general this weekend. I know that can probably set me a back a while. I am currently delving into a little .NET programming. So, there is always WIndows 8 tablets.
Came across this article last nite:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010050/leaked-windows-8-tablet-pricing-suggests-asus-is-targeting-big-spenders.html
Will most likely add to my confusion though. No one is holding a gun to my head, right?
Have a wonderful day wherever you may be!
Peter
Osteele said:
Good morning Marty, and thank you for your valuable input. Undoubtedly, you seem to be getting the most out of your trusty tablet. I am happy to hear that.
I am going to take in all I can about tablets in general this weekend. I know that can probably set me a back a while. I am currently delving into a little .NET programming. So, there is always WIndows 8 tablets.
Came across this article last nite:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010050/leaked-windows-8-tablet-pricing-suggests-asus-is-targeting-big-spenders.html
Will most likely add to my confusion though. No one is holding a gun to my head, right?
Have a wonderful day wherever you may be!
Peter
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Click to collapse
Oh, no, you're only in as much hurry as you put yourself in -- that Intel-based ASUS tablet is priced outrageously high -- 1399 dollars for a tablet? Meh. The people that would pay that )to include the dock accessory) would rather pay 1100 dollars for a really good laptop instead. I'd that swell, and I'd gain Windows gaming in the process (Borderlands 2 on the train commute ftw, hahaha! ) and a crapload of ecosystem apps that have been refined over many years instead of the 2 years we have had Android tablet apps and 0, nada, zilch for Windows 8 tablet apps.
If they price it lower, though, it might even be very tempting (especially when they do not break compatibility with Windows 7 applications -- I haven't been paying much attention to Windows 8. I guess I have some catching up to do...
And as far as your catching up goes: yes, I'd expect you to be busy reading for a week or two, at least. As we say in Holland: it will, at the very least, keep you off the streets.
MartyHulskemper said:
Oh, no, you're only in as much hurry as you put yourself in -- that Intel-based ASUS tablet is priced outrageously high -- 1399 dollars for a tablet? Meh.
If they price it lower, though, it might even be very tempting (especially when they do not break compatibility with Windows 7 applications -- I haven't been paying much attention to Windows 8. I guess I have some catching up to do...
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Click to collapse
Hello again Marty. I was under the impression that the pricing was somewhere in the vicinity of:
Pricing for Asus' Vivo Tab RT will start at $599
As was mentioned here as well:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/12/3495334/asus-vivo-tab-rt-pre-sales-begin-first-windows-rt-tablet-starts-at
IT's going to take more than a tablet to keep me off the streets. :laugh: :laugh:
Have a wonderful day. Peter
Osteele said:
Hello again Marty. I was under the impression that the pricing was somewhere in the vicinity of:
Pricing for Asus' Vivo Tab RT will start at $599
As was mentioned here as well:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/12/3495334/asus-vivo-tab-rt-pre-sales-begin-first-windows-rt-tablet-starts-at
IT's going to take more than a tablet to keep me off the streets. :laugh: :laugh:
Have a wonderful day. Peter
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Click to collapse
Hi Peter!
Yes, it did say that in the article, but the RT versions of Windows 8 are the versions that carry ONLY the Metro interface, and are able to run ONLY apps that have been specifically programmed to run on that particular version (although I might have understood all that totally wrong, in which case somebody will undoubtedly be so friendly as to point me to my errors. The more usable versions will cost you significantly more, and the dock will set you back even more...
MartyHulskemper said:
Hi Peter!
Yes, it did say that in the article, but the RT versions of Windows 8 are the versions that carry ONLY the Metro interface, and are able to run ONLY apps that have been specifically programmed to run on that particular version (although I might have understood all that totally wrong, in which case somebody will undoubtedly be so friendly as to point me to my errors. The more usable versions will cost you significantly more, and the dock will set you back even more...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha !!! Gotcha. Thanks to you, I will be going to bed a little smarter this evening. Thank you. Peter
Update
Well folks, I just wanted to stop by to let you know that I took the plung today at approx 18:00. After spending a considerable amount of time scouring the internet and reading reviews ad nauseam, I finally decided upon the Infinity. Should arrive in a few days and I must say that I am excited. Nice to feel like a kid again.
There is a good possibility that I may have a few questions once I have spent a little time with the unit. Hope you all don't mind if I post those questions here on this forum.
Thank you all again for being so helpful. I hope that I have made the right decision.
Peter
Osteele said:
Well folks, I just wanted to stop by to let you know that I took the plung today at approx 18:00. After spending a considerable amount of time scouring the internet and reading reviews ad nauseam, I finally decided upon the Infinity. Should arrive in a few days and I must say that I am excited. Nice to feel like a kid again.
There is a good possibility that I may have a few questions once I have spent a little time with the unit. Hope you all don't mind if I post those questions here on this forum.
Thank you all again for being so helpful. I hope that I have made the right decision.
Peter
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Click to collapse
Bring it on bro.....We are waiting!!!
buhohitr said:
Bring it on bro.....We are waiting!!!
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Thank you Sir. I really appreciate that.
Congrats! Welcome to the club
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Welcome to the Infinity family.
As a .NET Developer myself, I find this device comes in handy sometimes with the supernote it saves alot of papers and keep them all in one place. I use Supernote for writing pseudo code, brainstorming, UML diagram etc. Maybe you will find this method useful or maybe not. Anyhow, I hope you enjoy the infinity!
Cheers
Osteele said:
Well folks, I just wanted to stop by to let you know that I took the plung today at approx 18:00. After spending a considerable amount of time scouring the internet and reading reviews ad nauseam, I finally decided upon the Infinity. Should arrive in a few days and I must say that I am excited. Nice to feel like a kid again.
There is a good possibility that I may have a few questions once I have spent a little time with the unit. Hope you all don't mind if I post those questions here on this forum.
Thank you all again for being so helpful. I hope that I have made the right decision.
Peter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope so, too, Peter -- you'll find out soon enough, I guess. ; ) It does come pretty sudden, so after your initial resolve to wait it out and inform and inform and inform. I know the feeling of waiting, however, mostly gets the best of me -- I guess us gadgeteers are not the most resilient to marketing and spec sheets. Hahaha!
Welcome to the club, and don't fret about posting your questions. It's not your type of user we get fed up with, and to be honest, I think you'll be fine with the guides that have sprung up -- at least as far as unlocking woes, Nvflash, custom recoveries and custom ROMs, etc. go. It's going to take a fair bit of Play Store scavenging to find apps that suit your needs and style optimally, but we'll get there. Relish the kid feeling, and don't lose the fun in finding your way.
By the way: I assume you ordered it with the dock?