no mutitouch without JF and Luke - G1 Android Development

multi-touch WTH!
ok.. so i just read this:
VentureBeat claims that Apple specifically asked Google not to use Multi-Touch in their Android platform and Google agreed. The report comes from an unidentified member of the Android team:
Apple, which of course makes the signature multi-touch mobile device, the iPhone, apparently asked Google not to implement it, and Google agreed, an Android team member tells us.
WTH!

I dont see how Apple even got away with patenting multi touch on a touch screen in the first place. Apple has gone overboard with patenting and it seems everything they see now, they patent. I'm surprised they havent tried to patent the wheel since its standard for older iPods.
I'm sure with captive or whatever screens the iphone and g1 use, its gonna have multi touch anyways. Captive screens are built for multi touch and Google/HTC coded it in to not use it but it was only a matter of time before people unlocked it.
I thought Apple actually patented the gestures and not the multi touch part tho. Since G1 doesnt do gestures than I would think Google is in the safe.
I've owned a few iPods and own a Classic iPod now but damn, Apple really blows.

Yep. It's what many people have been saying for a long time.
Never forget that the Google CEO Eric Schmidt is on the Apple board of directors. He'll never compete with Apple unless he absolutely must.
Even the Android move was done simply to meet the major hole in their strategy for mobile devices but he obviously chose to leave Apple their differentiating factors.
Also notice that apps are being released with an iPhone priority first, then Android?
It pisses me off particularly because I don't think Apple has a leg to stand on with their "patent". Multi-touch, specifically the gestures that they claim, have been around for longer than Apple or Fingerworks. Look up Jeff Han from his TED demonstration in 2005. Pinching, zooming, flicking motions, etc.

I think Google just wants to let Palm fight it out with Apple and when it is determined that the pinch and other gestures are not patentable by Apple, Google will be out there with Synaptics and other companies releasing some gesture standards.
Google is just playing nice for now.

A comment i read stated that although multi-touch isn't included it is supported so if some third party developer wants to use it they can. Result- end user gets the features they want and google keeps its hands clean.
As for the apple apps first - i imagine that's just because there's more revenue potential from iphones. At the moment anyway
incidently I have jf RC8 1.4, is there something I need to do to enable multi-touch in the browser?

Google has separate teams for iphone apps and android so its not a matter of apple getting apps first, its a matter of where they are in their development cycle.
Android got latitude first right? Its not yet available for the iphone.

dwang said:
Android got latitude first right? Its not yet available for the iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..... it is a google product, nothing to do with apple. I would certinaly hope so

moussam said:
Google is just playing nice for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly. if google was really afraid of apple, i think the iphone would start losing some of its beloved google apps. which would just be hilarious.
later on, multi-touch may just become the standard. apple can't hold onto it forever, and even if they do.. well that's why i love android.

Remember Google is in it to win it. Yes they have a os, but there are EVERYWHERE. And will take their time. I agree put the code in and let other create for it. Keeping their hands clean.
Smart boogers they are

Apple asked Google not to use multi-touch in Android, and Google complied
MG Siegler | February 9th, 2009
One of the bigger complaints about T-Mobile’s G1, the first phone based on Google’s Android platform, is that its touch screen doesn’t use multi-touch, the technology which allows for a screen to accept multiple points of contact as simultaneous input. Now we may know why.
Apple, which of course makes the signature multi-touch mobile device, the iPhone, apparently asked Google not to implement it, and Google agreed, an Android team member tells us.
Further, the Android team member went on to say that they were relieved that Google didn’t go against Apple’s wishes, given the legal storm that appears to be brewing between Apple and Palm, which is using multi-touch technology in its new Pre phone. Even if Apple ultimately decides not to pursue legal action against Palm (it’s not yet clear how likely that is, but Apple does have an impressive array of patents), the situation has likely soured the relationship between the two companies. Google, it seems, wants no part in ruining its relationship with Apple.
And that makes sense. While the connection between Apple and Palm would seem like it should be strong, given how many former Apple employees now work at Palm, Google and Apple are actually more aligned. Not only does Google specially tailor a ton of its products for the iPhone (both with apps like Maps and Google Search, and specially formatted webpages), but its chief executive, Eric Schmidt, is on Apple’s board of directors. And don’t underestimate the fact that both share a chief rival: Microsoft.
Recent demonstrations (video below) have proven that the G1’s screen and Android are capable of handling multi-touch, so some people seemed confused that Google and HTC (which makes the G1) wouldn’t implement it. Now we know. The larger question going forward is, will multi-touch become important enough that Google has to include it in Android? After all, there are going to be a ton of Android-based phones come out this year, many that just have large screens like the iPhone (and get rid of the G1’s crappy keyboard). You can bet there will be pressure on Google to include multi-touch support in Android — especially after the Pre comes out.
On an related side note, the Android team member also confirmed that Intel has a massive effort underway related to Android. We reported at the end of last month that Intel was prepping to help with a large rollout of Android-based netbooks, possibly as soon as this year. It’s still not entirely clear what specifically Intel is doing on its end, but despite what some may think, it is heavily involved, our source contends.
Intel has been backing the Moblin project (mobile Linux), and it has now shifted its focus onto Netbooks for this year, jkOnTheRun’s Kevin Tofel noted recently. It seems that in some way it wants to be involved with Android too (though, Tofel noted in our comments on the other post that Android likely runs better on ARM architecture rather than Intel’s).
Our source confirmed that many different Android netbooks, as well as other Android-based projects are in the works. And that China is a hotbed for Android-based activity right now.
from:
http://venturebeat.com/2009/02/09/a...se-multi-touch-in-android-and-google-complied

Its only a matter of time before Apple claims to have invented air and will be charging us for every breath

oh, I am sorry... I didn't notice there already was a thread...
some nice mod merged it.

just keep in mind that its the 'gesture' that is patented, not the ability to have a multitouch input.

urgent - quickly separate multitouch from jf's version
as seen in other posts, apple got the patent for multitouch now. they announced to fight against everyone, who copies their feature. although this is meant in the direction of palm and maybe microsoft, this could concern us (and jesusfreke), too.
my suggestion is to separate multitouch from jf's version to avoid that jf is being sued by apple. maybe someone else with another account on xda, who doesn't care about being sued by apple could release the multitouch app for a short time and then ban it to the rapidshare hell...
For the mods: I don't believe that apple has the right to claim the patent for multitouch as others were quicker (microsoft). So I think this isn't a suggestion for illegal things but a tactic to avoid a legal action with unknown result. If you think, this post is not appropriate, let's discuss this first before closing the thread. Otherwise you would have to close the jf thread, too (I hope you won't do this).

They didn't patent all of multitouch. See http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/

i dont think apple would come after a single independant developer..... bad PR.... but would go after palm or M$ without any hesitation........ i dont really understand how they can patent something like that anyway.... its like patenting using a steering wheel......

It'll most likely be thrown out.
They're just using it to buy time for steve jobs to recover from cancer

I remember - not long ago - that palm was suing forum members that used the name "palm" for their forum. they didn't mind the bad PR. So I wouldn't be too sure, that they won't try to prevent someone having multitouch on a competiting device. They "asked" google to keep away from multitouch an they followed. If erverybody (the jf thread has 119,850 views, even if 19,850 are from me ) can have multitouch on the G1, they won't be happy with that.
And that's no secret of a little community. In nearly every article about the G1, jf'S version is mentionned, so apple knows about that.
So just to be sure that we don't have to raise funds for JF's legal action...
If it's possible, make it happen. Some people here already asked for a version without multitouch because some apps don't work anymore and future apps won't be supported by multitouch.

Just publish within EU
Such **** (SW patents) still doesn't fly in EU, so just publish it (t)here (rapidshare is in EU, AFAIK)

that was one of the sites...
http://www.palmpowerups.com/PalmPowerups.php?s=

Related

Is this the END of updates in our Gtablet?

i have read some post from Nvidia.. im just kinda confuse..
http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-stop-supporting-harmony-platform-past-froyo
do they really trashing our tablet ? no more drivers for future updates?
that's an old article and speculation has been around since it's original release. From updated stories, Nvidea claims that it WILL provide support IF the manufacturers request it. It's confusing becuase Nvidea says it wants Honeycomb from Google, Viewsonic wants drivers from Nvidea. Google won't approve use of their market or code for Viewsonic, and of course, WE want it all.
So, as it stands right now:
Google will only release Honeycomb to their approved vendors
Nvidea wants Honeycomb, and will support Harmony boards IF manufactureres request it
Viewsonic will update what they currently have, but can't advance their Harmony based products without Nvidea's cooperation.
WE are sitting with Froyo systems with no hardware acceleration becuase either Nvidea isn't providing it, or Viewsonic is not requesting it (or it cant be done) and getting Honeycomb is a pipe dream, since that all depends on Google.
I think I summed it up nicely, but there are a plethora of posts dealing with this exact topic.
That's why my next device is gonna be an apple ipad. They support their devices after more than 3 years. I will never buy anything with the damn android logo or OS on it. Screw you Google, screw you all android companies, you deserve it. I can't believe that I bought 2 new gtablets to become obsolete and without future in the moment I opened the box. If that's the "experience" that google want from android users, so well I got the "experience", now you can make a roll with android and stuck where you know, Google and Android
By the way I know this is old news, but each company is throwing the ball to others and I see they don't give a damn about users.
It's not Google's fault.
It is Google fault for not given permission to companies for using the sources needed, and the companies for no giving support to android. It is Google fault for the mess a Google Market, being not accessible to a most devices, and for the mess with all android versions.
So go and kiss Google if you a fan of them, but don't take out the blame from them because they are guilty as the companies. For me is the end of all Google related products , I'm sick of them. They become the Microsoft of the 2000's.
Bye bye Google and Android.
kekinash said:
It is Google fault for not given permission to companies for using the sources needed, and the companies for no giving support to android. It is Google fault for the mess a Google Market, being not accessible to a most devices, and for the mess with all android versions.
So go and kiss Google if you a fan of them, but don't take out the blame from them because they are guilty as the companies. For me is the end of all Google related products , I'm sick of them. They become the Microsoft of the 2000's.
Bye bye Google and Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, only "Google experience" devices get full Market access... anyone can build an Android device... anyone can use Android... but they have to partner with Google to get Market access and early access to Android... Viewsonic does not have this partnership... (No, I'm not a die hard fan of Google, but I do love Android).
It's basically up to the manufactures to ask for Google support (and pay for it)...
kekinash said:
It is Google fault for not given permission to companies for using the sources needed, and the companies for no giving support to android. It is Google fault for the mess a Google Market, being not accessible to a most devices, and for the mess with all android versions.
So go and kiss Google if you a fan of them, but don't take out the blame from them because they are guilty as the companies. For me is the end of all Google related products , I'm sick of them. They become the Microsoft of the 2000's.
Bye bye Google and Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really.
Google sets certain standards that have to be met (primarily hardware features) on a device for that device to have "google support" which it basically Market, Gmail, Gtalk, etc....all the Google provided apps.
As mentioned....anyone can build a device and run Android on it.....download the source code from AOSP and go to town. However...AOSP doesn't have or support the Google proprietary apps (Market, Gmail, etc..).
So, it's not Google's fault, it's the device manufacturers fault for being cheap and not adding the required hardware components to the devices to gain Google support.
This is also another reason why Honeycomb (OS 3.0) hasn't been released to open source yet.....hardware requirements are changing (3G not required, etc...) but they are still wanting a cohesive tablet design.
All these cheap android tablets are built to be cheap....because most people only want to pay xx amount. This gets you a "non supported" device....but if you are on this board.....you know that going in on the purchase. It's the community of developers that increase the overall function and use of these cheap "non supported" tablets.
If you wanted a "Google supported" device, buy one. Xoom, Acer Iconia, ASUS Transformer, etc.... Not a Viewsonic Gtabet, 10s, Nook Color, Coby whatever, Folio 100, etc...etc...etc...
Apple makes the iPad and the iOS running on it.....of course they support it.
Viewsonic makes neither the device or the OS.
thank you tcrews. well said
with all of this being said, I bought a G-tab knowing that it wouldn't be an exceptional piece of hardware out of the box. I knew that it took tweeking. I love my Vegan 5.1.1 system, and enjoy using it every day for games, surfing, news, adding sheet music to it, downloading PDFs for upcoming meetings. It's much more convenient than taking a binder full of music, or a stack of papers into a meeting. My son can watch movies on it, or play games, and the battery lasts longer than my Acer netbook.
Is it the best thing on the market, HELL no...but it's also not the most expensive, either.
AAs far as Google partnerships, I suspect that it's their pressure that intimidates companies. After all, as was mentioned, if you want full Google support, you need to buy a partnered piece of hardware. They typically cost more, simply due to the partnership. SO, in the case of viewsonic specifically, the great devs here have devised a way to bypass the partnership (limited bypass, but still a bypass) So, what's Viewsonic's motivation to acquiring said partnership? If Nvidea is trying to get one, perhaps it was Google that stipulated that Honeycomb will not be available on their Harmony platform.
We all know that if the devs here have hardware drivers for Harmony, and eventually code for Honeycomb, EVERY g-tab owner will have both, without requiring Viewsonic to get a partnership with Google.
So, fault lies in a few places (although definitely not warrented or deserved)
1st, to viewsonic for making such a hackable device. We ALL love the fact that we can put on it, basically, whatever we want. this thing is easier to "jailbreak" than an iPod touch.
2nd, to the devs on this site. They have done WONDERFUL work, for FREE to make our experience what it should be. Indirectly, though, the fact that they've made it "look" so easy, would certainly lead to companies doing whatever it takes to protect their assets.
Think of it this way...Since Google makes profit on the sales of their "approved" devices, why on Earth would they want to give the devs here a chance to make the G-Tablet be able to keep up with the devices that are yet to come? It would be Google that would need to explain to Asus, Motorola, HTC, etc. why people aren't buying their golden tablets, over the discount priced G-tab.
My only complaint in all of this is that Gingerbread is a potential reality on the G-tab. The Harmony board will obviously support it and run it. I would be happy if Nvidea would continue development to make a "STOCK" G-tab perform the way that it's hardware was designed to perform. After that, the devs here could tweak it to make it perform better than anticipated. Once Nvidea updates their drivers to utilize all of the hardware acceleration that the Harmony board is capable of, then I would be fine if their abandoned it.
Hell, in all of this discussion, I find that of the 3 computers I own, 2 are running XP, one is running Vista. I'm obviously not a person that is into the "MUST HAVE THE NEWEST" mentality. I'm sure my Acer would nearly explode if I tried running Windows 7 on it, but I'm not upset...XP works fantastically on it. Same with the G-tab. Honeycomb may run, it may be glitchy, it may have bugs, it may make my G-tab explode...regardless, I'm happy with what I have, but would like the hardware acceleration that I know it can handle.
Todd
Thanks tcrews for the explanation, but I think that companies must put somewhere that the device they sell you doesn't have the blessing of google, or they can't access the market and that you will end with an unsupported and obsolete device after you bough it. for a mere 150 dollars more I can have a device that I know for sure is gonna be supported for more than a year. The same happened with my 2 android phones. I bought them and didn't see any update or fix for all the mess with the Android OS, and the same happens with a lot of devices or phones. The companies just put them on the market knowing that they will not be supported in the future. When it was a cheap phone, that was OK for me, but for a phone you pay more that 400 bucks it's an insult.
Simply put Android right now is a big mess, and will stay in the future far from it, until they fix the mess and companies start giving support to what they sell.
I share your view kekinash.
I don't care who's fault it is, the point is Android is a mess unless you want to get into development, hacking, etc. (All of which I can do to an extent).
I have an android phone made by Samsung, I've got the G-tablet, and I used to have a Motorola android phone. Each device has had a number of unexplained issues, of which no one tends to take responsibility for or any level of accountability. The fingerpointing I observed with my current Samsung phone is nothing short of comical. It's AT&T's issue, oh no, it's Samsung that does the software, oh no, you have to call Google "Android support". Nonsense.
My wife has had to iphones, and as much as I despise Apple, any issues (and they were minimal) were resolved quickly. And, you don't have the issue of the same app not working on the same version of the OS. Yes, Apple will discontinue support for older devices just like anyone else, but I've never fought with the iphone as much as I have to do circus acts with these Android-based devices.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect everyone's opinion. I love the Android "concept", but the execution, for me, is far from worth my time.
That's why, whether good or bad, an ipad costs what it does.
kekinash said:
That's why my next device is gonna be an apple ipad. They support their devices after more than 3 years. I will never buy anything with the damn android logo or OS on it. Screw you Google, screw you all android companies, you deserve it. I can't believe that I bought 2 new gtablets to become obsolete and without future in the moment I opened the box. If that's the "experience" that google want from android users, so well I got the "experience", now you can make a roll with android and stuck where you know, Google and Android
By the way I know this is old news, but each company is throwing the ball to others and I see they don't give a damn about users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why must we be bothered with cr-apple plugs on a Android forum? Just go over to cr-apple you don't have to announce it. These type of posts leads us to believe you are just a fanboy trolling.
Yeah, typical answer from a fanboy. I not married to either company, I just pointing the differences between both OS, on one (IOs) you get support, on the other (Android) you're at your own.
It's my right to criticize the things I see wrong, you may like it or not, agree or not, but you can't take this right from me, at least here at the States. And saying what another company is doing right is not to be a fanboy.
And by the way, if the developers here and in another places weren't doing a great job with Android, the OS will be a Sh*t, specially with the g tablet, so a big thanks goes to them. I using a non stock rom and this is the only thing that avoided to send back the 2 tables I have.
This thread is not being productive at all. Closed.

Samsung Android phones... R.I.P. :(

So now that Google has acquired Motorola, what does this mean for us? I would assume the big Android backers like LG and Samsung have plan B's? I know samsung has the Bada O.S., not sure what LG will do. But we can all expect that as of today, all plans for Samsung to continue android development has all but ceased. Wouldn't make good sense for them to continue to put money in Google's pocket now that they are in the hardware business.
in case you haven't seen it...
http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/15/google-to-acquire-motorola-mobility-for-12-5-billion/
orateam said:
But we can all expect that as of today, all plans for Samsung to continue android development has all but ceased.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be silly for Samsung to stop making android phones. Your assumption is just that, and it's not a very good one.
This deal isn't closed. It's still subject to regulatory approval.. and if it gets approved we wont see anything for a while..
Posted via tapatalk from my Samsung Stealth.
writing is on the wall.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...V0aGFib3U-?sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=
If you believe google bought Motorola for just the patents, pass the pipe this way....
Google could have paid a fraction of that, to buy the patents and give motorola a long term lease on them that expires beyond the patent. This occurs frequently. Google just did this a few weeks ago where they bought 1000+ patents from IBM.
Google bought Motorola for both reasons. They realized that apple is running the table with profits on hardware. You can only make so much money giving away your stuff for free.
I hate when companys do stuff like this. This will only turn into another iphone type company. You will see the cost of phones going up.. Google is trying to be the next Apple.
We can all kiss open source goodbye.
Goodbye ANDROID hello MOTOROID OR MOTODROID
Relax, this is a good thing.
http: //androidandme.com/2011/08/news/google-acquires-motorola-mobility-in-order-to-protect-android-from-patent-trolls/
lefunque said:
Relax, this is a good thing.
http: //androidandme.com/2011/08/news/google-acquires-motorola-mobility-in-order-to-protect-android-from-patent-trolls/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my GummyCharge using XDA App
Definitely a good thing. Google will remain open source (they're not dumb enough to put an end to that) and it helps with the frivolous legal battle apple and microsoft has been going after everyone about. I just hope they finally unlock the motos soon. Always liked the phones but I love custom roms too much to deal with a locked bootloader (thus why my X2 went bye bye)
Tapatalk via DROID Charge
I wouldn't worry. Google purchasing Motorola actually benefits all Android device manufacturers.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
What does Google buying Motorola MOBILITY have to do with the other android OEM's? Nothing. Google just did this to back up all their OEM's with Motorola's patents.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
Another thing people don't seem to realize is that if Google does begin to behave badly, Samsung et al can just fork the code base.
Nothing is stopping Samsung, LG, HTC, Amazon, BN, and others from forming a consortium to develop there own brand of forked Android OS for use on their own smart phones.
For those that are optimistic, sorry to disappoint, but this is not. I’ve seen this same situation many times and it never works out. In fact, think of the last time this situation has turned out positive for the co-dependents.
I was at a huge oracle conference when oracle stabbed their 2 biggest sponsors in the heart. These sponsors (HP and Redhat) paid millions for sponsorship. They had their logos on stages, bags handed out, and BANG! Oracle announced on Day 1 that they were acquiring SUN and supporting all unix O.S. by themselves. HP had just the previous year made a huge deal with oracle on an agreement to be their primary hardware supplier and even worked on Oracle’s newest tech, oracle exadata, with them. At first, all the lovey dovey stuff came out and HP and oracle both said this was going to be great for both of them. Redhat said the boost in Unix OS would be good for them. NOT TRUE. Redhat is barely staying alive after putting all their eggs in the oracle basket. HP partnered with Microsoft to make the next big thing in the HP slate, vaporware, only to have to buy the PALM O.S. which isn’t working too good. It’s always like this. The mobile industry is about to become a 2 horse race. Samsung, HTC, LG, I see T.V. Sets in your future.
orateam said:
For those that are optimistic, sorry to disappoint, but this is not. I’ve seen this same situation many times and it never works out. In fact, think of the last time this situation has turned out positive for the co-dependents.
I was at a huge oracle conference when oracle stabbed their 2 biggest sponsors in the heart. These sponsors (HP and Redhat) paid millions for sponsorship. They had their logos on stages, bags handed out, and BANG! Oracle announced on Day 1 that they were acquiring SUN and supporting all unix O.S. by themselves. HP had just the previous year made a huge deal with oracle on an agreement to be their primary hardware supplier and even worked on Oracle’s newest tech, oracle exadata, with them. At first, all the lovey dovey stuff came out and HP and oracle both said this was going to be great for both of them. Redhat said the boost in Unix OS would be good for them. NOT TRUE. Redhat is barely staying alive after putting all their eggs in the oracle basket. HP partnered with Microsoft to make the next big thing in the HP slate, vaporware, only to have to buy the PALM O.S. which isn’t working too good. It’s always like this. The mobile industry is about to become a 2 horse race. Samsung, HTC, LG, I see T.V. Sets in your future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, different situation. Oracle's bread and butter is, and has always been, very proprietary software and consulting services. Once they had there own underling OS and control of Java, they quickly began bringing as much as possible in house. That was the Oracle mentality from the giddy-up though and Red Hat/HP should have been aware of that. Very common with companies like that (MS, for example, has a very long and sordid history of doing the same thing).
Google is quite a bit different. For one thing, their bread and butter isn't in Android as an OS, it is in data collection and analytics (for advertising, marketing, and such) as well as various cloud services. Hardware margins being what they are, and Google's core business being what it is, it will be in Google's best interest to make sure that Android continues to be on as much hardware as possible.
yeah if anything the acquisition should be a good thing, hopefully they will take the moto phones and unlock them and put some pressure on other companies to follow suit. i think they will do some good things with moto's hardware and get other companies on top of their stuff, IE updates, unlocked bootloaders, not such garbage UI's, etc, etc......
Raccroc said:
Nope, different situation. Oracle's bread and butter is, and has always been, very proprietary software and consulting services. Once they had there own underling OS and control of Java, they quickly began bringing as much as possible in house. That was the Oracle mentality from the giddy-up though and Red Hat/HP should have been aware of that. Very common with companies like that (MS, for example, has a very long and sordid history of doing the same thing).
Google is quite a bit different. For one thing, their bread and butter isn't in Android as an OS, it is in data collection and analytics (for advertising, marketing, and such) as well as various cloud services. Hardware margins being what they are, and Google's core business being what it is, it will be in Google's best interest to make sure that Android continues to be on as much hardware as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Love ya response. It's a very good point. I looked a little more into it and found that motorola aquired General instruments. The company every cable company uses for it's DVR. apparently motorola owns the DVR patents and is currently suing TIVO. if motorola wins, nobody will be able to record T.V. but them. If Google can get into every Cable box and keep apple from ever creating a DVR.......
Samsung said this:
“We welcome today’s news, which demonstrates Google’s deep commitment to defending Android, its partners, and the ecosystem.”
J.K. Shin, president of Samsung’s Mobile Communications division.
If anything this will boost more innovation.
"This acquisition will not change our commitment to run Android as an open platform. Motorola will remain a licensee of Android and Android will remain open. We will run Motorola as a separate business. Many hardware partners have contributed to Android’s success and we look forward to continuing to work with all of them to deliver outstanding user experiences."
-Larry Page (http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/supercharging-android-google-to-acquire.html)
Google is anything but stupid, and they're not going to go shooting their partners -- which are the reason Android's so successful -- in the foot. Yes, this is obviously going to result in stronger competition for HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., and of course they aren't going to be thrilled about that, but it also drastically strengthens them against patent trolls and exorbitant patent licensing fees can cut into profits even more than stronger competition.
Plus, keep in mind that Motorola has a seriously low market share compared to HTC or Samsung -- they're in seventh place worldwide. This isn't like if Google bought HTC (which could have afforded to do -- but didn't because HTC has a tiny patent portfolio). In other wordS: if Motorola were the only one making Android handsets, Android would quickly fall to third or fourth place in the OS race.
Anyways, long story short: this means nothing for us other than that the next time we buy a phone, Motorola handsets may be better options. Of course, it just may spur competitors to keep up faster with updates, etc., leading to better devices all-around. Either way, we, the consumers, win.
Falcyn said:
"This acquisition will not change our commitment to run Android as an open platform. Motorola will remain a licensee of Android and Android will remain open. We will run Motorola as a separate business. Many hardware partners have contributed to Android’s success and we look forward to continuing to work with all of them to deliver outstanding user experiences."
-Larry Page (http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/supercharging-android-google-to-acquire.html)
Google is anything but stupid, and they're not going to go shooting their partners -- which are the reason Android's so successful -- in the foot. Yes, this is obviously going to result in stronger competition for HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., and of course they aren't going to be thrilled about that, but it also drastically strengthens them against patent trolls and exorbitant patent licensing fees can cut into profits even more than stronger competition.
Plus, keep in mind that Motorola has a seriously low market share compared to HTC or Samsung -- they're in seventh place worldwide. This isn't like if Google bought HTC (which could have afforded to do -- but didn't because HTC has a tiny patent portfolio). In other wordS: if Motorola were the only one making Android handsets, Android would quickly fall to third or fourth place in the OS race.
Anyways, long story short: this means nothing for us other than that the next time we buy a phone, Motorola handsets may be better options. Of course, it just may spur competitors to keep up faster with updates, etc., leading to better devices all-around. Either way, we, the consumers, win.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
i get that is what is being said, but if i were in Samsung or HTC's camp, i would be re-considering my funding into a technology where the software i've been depending on could be pulled away at any moment. Now that google has the hardware side covered, if HTC and Samsung keep throwing money that way, it's a big risk.
Microsoft could always have bought a hardware company like Dell, but it knew what that would do to the confidence of other builders. IMO, google should just have bought the patents.
orateam said:
i get that is what is being said, but if i were in Samsung or HTC's camp, i would be re-considering my funding into a technology where the software i've been depending on could be pulled away at any moment. Now that google has the hardware side covered, if HTC and Samsung keep throwing money that way, it's a big risk.
Microsoft could always have bought a hardware company like Dell, but it knew what that would do to the confidence of other builders. IMO, google should just have bought the patents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like someone else said, it's in Google's best interest to keep android on as many devices as possible. I seriously doubt anything will change for sammy or htc.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA App

Microsoft collecting Royalities .. ?

I have searched all over the internet and there is no article that explains exactly WHY and HOW could MS collect Royalities from EVERY single company that putts Google's Operating system into their devices. and not just any amount, but 5-10$ from every sold device!?!
Could someone explain to me why ? How is it that Microsoft is earning billions from something that is not theirs .. ? And as I read in one article - they didnt even pull up the lawsuit, they are just threatening with words, and everyone agrees (HTC, LG, Samsung, EVERYONE!)
WHAT has MS made, that Android copied, and that it belongs into MS's patent claims .. ?
And, what on earth is Google doing about that ?
Igoritza said:
I have searched all over the internet and there is no article that explains exactly WHY and HOW could MS collect Royalities from EVERY single company that putts Google's Operating system into their devices. and not just any amount, but 5-10$ from every sold device!?!
Could someone explain to me why ? How is it that Microsoft is earning billions from something that is not theirs .. ? And as I read in one article - they didnt even pull up the lawsuit, they are just threatening with words, and everyone agrees (HTC, LG, Samsung, EVERYONE!)
WHAT has MS made, that Android copied, and that it belongs into MS's patent claims .. ?
And, what on earth is Google doing about that ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer: the patent system is broken, at least with regards to software. You can patent any stupidly obvious or generic idea ("slide to unlock") and the patent office, which makes money off these, will probably accept it.
(Indeed, there was an accepted 1996 patent on using a laser pointer to play with a cat. Go figure.)
Thus, companies like microsoft spam ideas into the patent office. And the patents are taken seriously enough that many companies would rather settle than take the risk of having their products blocked.
Android didn't necessarily "steal" anything; our patent system doesn't give a crap. See, patents were originally supposed to spread out the technical specifications of an idea, in order to spread the knowhow. The problem is, where it comes to software, the technical specification is so tied in to the idea itself that they're pretty much one and the same. Effectively, you're patenting ideas, and the broken patent system now punishes others for coming up with similar ideas. There's an entire literature on the brokenness, if you google around.
As for google itself, I'm not sure they are doing anything. They bought Motorola, but that might've been to protect themselves. If they have a plan for protecting their OS' manufacturers, it's not very obvious at all.
---
TLDR: HTC, Samsung, etc being punished by a broken protectionist system. The only way around it is really to get rid of the system itself.
Ultimately, the users are the ones who suffer from having to pay the costs of all this litigation, but this is probably more a long-term than a short-term effect. For example, $5 of royalties will probably not make a phone go from $699.99 to $704.99. Rather, the effect is less money going into R&D all around, and more going into lawyers' pockets. So as a user, if a phone costs $650 or $600, that's just how much it costs.. for now.
So, basically, this is a Game of US companies and imprinting their legal system on the rest of the world .. ? .. ? Cause, I dont see anyone from the rest of the world getting anything extra .. ? Damn, someone needs to remove that continent from this planet.
But, WHAT is in the core of the Android so that MS gets their share .. ? I understand how HTC Sense may be connected to some of the early WM5 stuff, but what about the rest .. ? they CANT patent almost everything, or do they .. ? And as I figured out, most of the patented stuff is GUI, that is ridiculous!
MS don't collect from every android manufacturer, just some. Basically they claim google infringe on their patents and went to manufacturers saying "pay us or we sue you" but afaik no one knows what patents are infringed and I think Barnes and Noble told them to politely get lost so not sure how they fared but it shows not all say yes. Unfortunately ms have good lawyers that seem very persuasive.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Just found out everything:
It is true, that few people know what is the actual deal. Google has sucessfully defended themselves from Oracle that claimed several patents, and purchase of Motorola from google is actually a defence mechanism cause Motorolla holds over 17.000 patents (W T F!!!!!) God knows how many Microsoft is holding, and how ridiculous those patents are being that they have much more than Motorola.
No one is considering abandoning Android cause that system actually made their devices popular, but still they all have a problem with MS blackmailing them. HTC made a boom, but they are still a small Taiwanese company that struggles all around (not getting Hanstar IPS pannels cause Apple ordered more, not getting Gorilla cause Apple and samsung ordered more, and so on) .. so the 5$ toll is pretty big number for HTC phones, and they are the ones that are in the biggest problem right now (not talking about smaller players in the game)
Damn you USA and your laws. Pizza is a vegetable, Kinder surprise is banned cause stupid american children would eat the toy. and Microsoft somehow owns Google's Android.
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would they, if they can just take what everyone else is doing and put it mostly into one system they will never need to come up with any original ideas. Heck look at iOS5 and what they put into it. They added (just to name a few)
1. icloud (in essence a play on windows cloud service with their windows phone devices of cloud storage. the exception is this syncs with other ios devices but a play on microsofts idea)
2. draggable notification bar (android has had this forever now. The difference, on ios you can get a stock ticker and weather instead of just your notifications.)
3. imessage (Blackberry Messenger for ios basically)
4. OTA updates (blackberry and android both used this before apple)
5. wifi syncing (I know windows had this in their windows phone 7 devices not sure of any others that had this feature before kies air in samsung.)
6. Reminders, see reminders by date (a lot of the widgets on android let you do this without even having to open the calendar app)
that's just to name a few and just to show every company does it, even someone as big as apple does it. If you come up with your own that's great but people don't take to it as well as something they have already had. For instance if you had android and apple wants you to come over to apple they are gonna give you the things you love about android most like draggable notifications, wifi hotspot, etc. There is no need for originality anymore. That is just what this world has come to.
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is that the question. Or are you suggesting that android is simply copied and stolen from others work?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What .. ? U serious .. ?
Man, copyright infringement these days is ridiculous, there is NO possible way to make anything "new" if you take that seriously, as it seems that american courts do.
It goes to the extent that almost anything can be patented, so that literally any rectangle shaped phone with TS could be patented by one company and so, baned for the rest. LG/Apple actually tried that (prada/iPhone) even though Eten, HTC (former Qtek) and HP already had PDA's with SIM functions much before that.
Android was developed before iOS (starting in 2005, already co-signed by 86 companies) and released in 2007, so there is no place for ripping off Apple. And, exept for the simultaneous development of iOS and Android which have similarities, I myself as a tech-geek and user of electronics, do not see ANY similarities of ANY android feature with ANY of the MS products and I had the chance to use them all - Windows versions on mobile and desktop machines. in terms of GUI and in terms of understanding how stuff works under the hood.
Im surely not able to understand 30k+ patents that MS holds, but that is not normal, that is more of a world sociology problem, rather than an actual technical one. that is retarded.
Igoritza said:
What .. ? U serious .. ?
Man, copyright infringement these days is ridiculous, there is NO possible way to make anything "new" if you take that seriously, as it seems that american courts do. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly on the dot. The way people have been duped into thinking that any sort of resemblance is "stealing" is actually sad.
And, unusually enough for z33, actually related to the topic. This entire ridiculous regime exists precisely because people are so ridiculously overprotective of their own ideas (or the ideas of whichever-team-you're-a-fanboi-of) while rationalizing their own copying of ideas from other people. The fact is, this copying is necessary because innovation does not exist in a vacuum, and yet we still react as stupid little apes when it comes to be our turn.
Sent from my Terran Command Center.
Well, this is how the system works. It's not about anything true, just what you can prove to be true.
There even exist companies that have the sole purpose of buying patents and using those patents to sue other companies!
In terms of the mobile industry, in case you didn't know, it is currently one of the hottest arenas in terms of patent lawsuits.
Here is a nice graphic: http://flowingdata.com/2011/08/22/mobile-patent-lawsuits-2/

What Google isn't Doing right (don't hate me)

1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Oddly I aggree with most of that, esp the marketing, you know I just found out just how good google voice was the other day... I have had android phones now for 3 years... Lol.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
funny you should bring up google voice. That was one of the things that I was thinking about when it comes to advertising short comings. It has been a great feature and a solid performer and now with Jellybean, it has every function of Siri, with the performance level I have come to expect from Google voice.
google needs to talk about it in plain English with every day examples of implementation
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago. If it reassures the OP: the rumor that Google plans to expand the Nexus line to more manufacturers is a good thing for us XDAers and friends of XDAers.
alpha-niner64 said:
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st off, other companies doing it too, its not a reason to ignore said issue. Also, windows is taking steps to correct the hardware issue and make there OS consistent (for example)
If you think google doesn't "have to" advertise, I guess your right but even companies like 3M who sells many products to OEM's that then sell to the end user (like google) advertise to further there brand and promote the use of there products by OEM's. Also, 3M knows more about the products than any one OEM that uses there products, not to mention, the OEM's that use 3M consider 3M to be one of the reasons there product is good, and will not focus on key points of the 3M element.
Also, look at gorilla glass from corning, another product that isn't sold direct to the end user. They do there own advertising to promote there product and increase brand recognition to better sell there product.
I also disagree that google is a developer selling to developers only. Google nexus 7 is a perfect example of that. The nexus 7 tab is meant to further the "play store" brand, and is being sold at a vary low price point in the hopes that play store sales will make up for it just like the Kindle. I also don't think the Galaxy Nexus is a "developer device" at least, not exclusively.
So does google have to, no. Should they want to, yes.
What would you have Google advertise about that other companies should be doing in their stead? Google has brand recognition already and it's pretty clear by Google I/O that their intended audience isn't the Apple crowd: so who else would there be to advertise to? If the Apple crowd is whom you're referring to: that should be Samsung, HTC, Sony's job to do. What can Google do to help those manufacturers sell their features to the consumer that those companies aren't already doing themselves?
This is where we are going to disagree. Google has brand recognition but Android has far less. Verizon, did the best job and now the "droid" brand has more recognition than "android", many times "droid" is used and the general brand for all android by consumers. I don't think Google should depend on hardware companies to advertise there product. Even windows advertises there software. The OEM's should ALSO advertise but not ONLY advertise.
Advertising that the Galaxy nexus has a "unlockable" boot loader is un needed and doesnt further the brand. 98% of the people who want a unlocked boot loader, knew the galaxy nexus had one before the ad hit the streets.
The fact that apple fans are oviusly not googles target market is or should be false (proven by samsung). Google should be polishing there OS so that more of apple users would be interested. Google will not be able to continue on for ever just appealing to a small market such as the XDA community. OEM's will abandon them if that was the case. Look at the OEM's and there behavior, they are not interested in selling phones to the developer community only, otherwise Motorola would not lock there phones down as they did, or at least they would offer developers unlock tools like HTC has done. HTC is a little more "developer marketed" but lets be real, they still drag there feet when ever they can or feel pressure from the big 3.
That leads me to the Carrier's, they do not want to sell phones marketed to developers that are easily hacked and modded. they want control. Google should want to sell the most units they can within reason. This means helping the developer community with there goals and helping the OEM's and Carrier's with there's. Google should be (and I think they are) trying to make android more marketable to the masses and then lead that marketing campaign by example.
Its like that old saying, "alone with your principles". You can stand here and say that the OEM's should do all the advertising but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing what needs to be done and google need to sell product that is dependent on the platform. They are an advertising company so do they sit back and hope HTC and Samsung start talking more about there product and doing more to show how it will improve our lives or should they step in and show the OEM's how its done, at the same time increasing the value of there products
I think a lot of your issues are going to be solved for the mainstream with more Nexus devices rolling out. The other great thing is that as more people start looking at Nexus flexibility and timely updates the more other OEMs will be forced to follow suit if they want to stay viable. It seems Sony and to some extent HTC and Samsung are pretty serious about both the hardware and update side of things so anyone else will just have to play catch-up.
As a whole though some of these things will continue to persist. One of the draws of Android devices is having smartphone abilities without ridiculous cost. There will always be people who want the goodies but don't have a lot of extra funds and those devices will simply be a little behind the curve. With the optimizations coming via Jellybean though OEMs won't have the excuse of claiming that newer versions are too complex for older phones and I would hope that they continue to push updates for a reasonable period.
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
dB Zac said:
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? Google gets no say in how they manipulate the OS. I mean seriously...battery life? How the f*** could that be a google issue?
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
dB Zac said:
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
lowandbehold said:
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I have to love it and ignore any and all short coming or be crusified? Ok sounds like a page from apple fanboyism
here, since you will not read the whole thing before commenting, i will post the part you seemed to miss
dB Zac said:
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dB Zac said:
1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/03/14/android-isnt-really-open-its-just-less-closed-than-apple/
Google only cares about advertising (and like to snoop in on what you do, say, what you buy, where you shop, visit, etc... ) of course.
But they do have pretty good control over Android.
lowandbehold said:
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st off, "droid" always running blur was not the point and incorrect. Verizon owns the "droid" name, as it is licensed to them by Lucus Industries. hence the HTC phones under that same brand name. I was commenting on the superior advertizing and Branding that Verizon did. The Droid 1 was a great vanilla phone that did well in a large part, due to advertizing. The verizon campain made "droid" a household name, more so than "Android".
2nd google can advertise features and the OS without advertising a specifice peice of hardware, windows does it all the time. Also, since google does have Google branded harware (nexus), they are in the hardware biz and should advertize aas such.
"Verizon sucks" based on what I can only emagin was your reasoning for this statement, I'm sure all major cariers "suck, not really the point here. Out of all the cariers, Verizon, furthered the android the most in the last 3 years out of anyone. Only now is Samsung beging to be the leader in promoting the android platform.
I agree with you on this, anyone who ask me what phone to get, i personally recommend iPhone UNLESS the guy knows his stuff, i myself LOVE android, been using it for 3 years now but i am software developer and very much familiar with kernels and bootloaders and and and , someone was aksing me the other day, since Android has much bigger marketshare, why everything comes out for iPhone first?
answer is simple, as a developer making things for iPhone is sooooo much easier, you only have "ONE" screen dimension to worry about, you only got 3-4 phones to worry about which 90% of them are similar, now compare this with android phones !!!
and last as everyone mentioned is advertising, personally i think google and all manufacturers do a HORRIBLE job promoting , remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things,
Personally i think iPhone WORKS, its great for people who dont think outside the box, they want something that WORKS and thats it, they like to be TOLD what to do, how to use your phone , and they follow it.
Android is for thone who like to explore, install custom ROMs , play with OC/UV , etc.
Raul77 said:
remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things
thats another real good example of, others were 1st but Apple advertizes better
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I actually came from a blackberry, where in convention they make and market their devices.
When I switched to android now essentially Samsung was giving me their flavour of what they call android through Touchwiz and I really hated it.
Google should really take sometime to ensure manufacturers aren't dumbing down the platform for consumers and give users a clear overview of how it can serve them. Which is exactly what Google does with its Nexus.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Apple VS Samsung

It's looking very dim for samsung at this point. My overall observation is how big of a blow would this win if Apple wins be to the Android OS?
http://allthingsd.com/20120806/iphone-caused-crisis-of-design-at-samsung-memo/
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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That can't handle that "beast".
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screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
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Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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+1
with all respect to the late Steven P. Jobs, apple had a huge problem with people copying interfaces, and this is more of a Jobs thing.
If you look at the history of the company based in the Jobs biography, it has always had problems with competitors copying them, but seems like this time is the first time that they feel the leverage to pursue legal action.
I for one am seeing this as apple being completely ugly and childish, and it certainly has changed the way that I look at them and their products.
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
mustbepbs said:
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
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Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Last I checked, the US still has anti-monopoly laws in place. Will it deter their dominance quest? Of course not. What can we do? What we already do: support and run Android! Plus, without apple, these forums would be overrun with idiots asking what the extra physical buttons do and demanding to know why they didn't receive a gingerbread and frozen yogurt sandwich covered in jelly beans and cupcake frosting with their device purchase
Super SGS3, Away!!
SCH-I535.10, Beans custom stock build 6
stevenjcampbell said:
Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
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I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
Sccrluk9 said:
I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
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I think you are right. This will definitely go to appeal. Chances are that Samsung will get whatever judgement suspended until its worked its way through the system. This case is very hotly contested and I can see it making it to the Supreme Court.
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
Yeah, this is looking bad.
They don't sue Google because it's Samsung that allegedly infringed on their patents. They copied the form-factor, they copied the icons. The form-factor is less of an issue - I think they will win on that. A flat touchscreen in a square body is basically the only design you could use for a touch-centric OS. But the icons, and that document that came out today, oh God...
It is depressing that in the gigantic tech space, there really is no company besides Apple that has the user-centric design culture to make what is essentially a perfect device for the vast majority of users. They have copied, and will copy, but the difference is Apple is innovative in a way that Samsung and Google simply are not. Google is too geek-and-tech centric to do what Apple does. They love hacking. They love making phones people can hack. They are like us Android fans, they love customizability, and so they don't pay attention to the details that would make Android a perfect OS for mobile devices, because, in their world they WANT people to customize and add their own flair. They want people to be like them. And a lot of us are like that, we love it. I love it. But that's a minority. Most people want an appliance and a perfectly engineered system to play Angry Birds in.
iOS is designed just as a simple vehicle for launching apps for the most part. Android is designed to be a bit more than that. In any case they chose to use the Microsoft strategy of just getting the OS out there instead of making a device that would be a perfect synergy of hardware and software. And Samsung is just a consumer electronics company, making cookie-cutter devices for the most part. They are trying, I'll admit, but it's all half-assed. S-Voice is almost useless, they bring nothing special to Android with TouchWiz, the gestures are nice but really just gimmicky. And if they do come up with something absolutely original, they need to bring the fight to Apple, who will no doubt copy really useful features like voice-activation for the camera. And they probably won't...
There is no chance of monopoly issues as long as Android is as successful as it is. I remain convinced Android's biggest problem is there are simply not enough developers in the world interested in Android. There are numerous technical and economic reasons why Android does not have the apps and the polished apps we deserve. I fear, just as PC software was essentially Microsoft's domain for so many years, the next 15 years will be defined by the mobile space being iOS' domain. There simply isn't the justification for developers to work on Android as much, just as most PC software development was for Windows, not Macs back in the '90s...
I think Samsung will get hard...maybe it will be enough to startle them into innovation, but frankly, Asian companies do not have a great history of it. The last great consumer device to be invented in Asia was Sony's Walkman, and that was 30 years ago.
Face it, we have PCs. But PCs without the appbase. A few of us are enthusiasts, water-cooling and overclocking and have 3 screens. That's the XDA crowd, the hackers, the ROMers, the developers and themers. But the vast majority of Android users are downmarket folks who couldn't afford an iPhone but wanted to check their email and browse the web.
piiman said:
Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
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I agree. Maybe I'm not seeing the context, but it sure just reads like he's pushing his developers to come up with better products, which is what he should be doing.
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
marsonist said:
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
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I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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kishin14 said:
I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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Absolutely fare questions. I own an Android device because I am inherently a tinkerer. I have had every generation of iPhone with a brief lapse in 2009 when the OG Droid was released. (I say brief because I gave it away after three months.) The interface and primary functionality of iPhones is a well worn path. I decided that I'd like something that I can toy with more. The ability to tinker is not a feather in Samsung's cap, however, rather a more fundamental aspect of the Android core.
It is now 2012. Early Android phones left *a lot* to be desired. Newer devices are more stable and have a few neat features that the iPhone doesn't, yet, have. Would these devices have lasted long enough to say "We've got NFC first" if they hadn't spent four years walking in the iPhones footsteps? I don't think so.
It's really a stupid case in my opinion. I mean, yeah, Samung probably took the iPhone as an example when they developed the Galaxy line. So what? Does Apple want Samsung to make phones shaped in a triangle? Beds have looked pretty much the same bar some details but no-one is complaining about copyright infringement. If something makes an impact as big as the iPhone on society, how is it possible not to think of it when developing a phone after it's release?
I hope Apple wins the software side of the argument so then maybe Samsung will stop puking their TW over android and let Google deal with any legal **** that comes about.

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