Database Info

No more custom ROMs on HTC devices: HTC will secure the bootloader for future phones.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/htc-locks-down-incredible-s-against-custom-roms-too-starts-a-fi/
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73423/htc-beveiligt-bootloader-nieuwe-android-toestellen.html
Why???
You have just been added next to Sony on my "Don't buy"-list.
Which phone will be the next HD2? LG?
***Update***:
Sony-Ericsson makes a tool to load custom roms onto their devices (http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73521/so...t-custom-roms-op-android-phones-mogelijk.html)
This is good news!

How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?

This was an interesting argument, to me: NOT that the phones aren't still crackable, but rather that HTC is giving into intimidation by Verizon.. and by doing so, it's signaling that they will bow down to carriers, yet even moreso, over end users who BUY THEIR PHONES and are their actual customers.
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You may not agree, but the "rebel" in me likes that argument at least....
When you combine this with HTC America's not honoring warranties, they are not making the best moves given their fractional market share and the massive competition getting stronger and stronger from Motorola and Samsung every day ---- though I love HTC's phones and have never cheated on them once!
But keep in mind HTC *owned* the entire turf of touchscreen devices during the mighty reign of Windows Mobile... Now? Today? They are practically an asterisk. And Motorola? They were gonners. People thought there were out of the game having fallen so far behind after nothing new since the RAZR. Then the new CEO came in, targeted Android as his platform for choice, they targeted the DROID as their re-entry vehicle, and they slammed into the touchscreen market and overtook HTC like a steamroller.
When you are playing on THAT kind of playing field, you're going to go messing with your most loyal customer base -- and kiss ass with a carrier? I think HTC is blundering all over the place -- all the while they continue to make fantastic phones. But fact remains, they cannot afford to even SIGHTLY ANNOY a loyal customer these days. Once someone goes Samsung or Motorola, I don't see a big love affair where they're going to comer back to HTC. So, they better watch it, from where I sit. It's not just as simple a matter as "but we can crack anything". That's missing the point entirely.

Is HTC dual mode? Are they just doing it in the US or all over. That's why I've never liked Verizon. Started years ago over ringtones and BitPim.

What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S, which from the specs on HTC's website, is a GSM phone so if this additional layer of security were a specific demand from VZW, there'd be no reason to add it to the Incredible S.
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.

GnatGoSplat said:
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with this. Go to any Android phone dev section and you see tons of people returning phones for replacement because they goof up flashing it.

I didn't realize this was posted already, I had just posted this in another section, I had said a week ago that it might be the end of an era with HTC locking down their phones, this sucks.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is just pressure from the carriers rather than HTC itself.
Regardless, i am disappoint!

I hope they dont do this, we need customization!

it does suck, theyll be another motorola now, except sense still owns blur lol

No no no no no. :'( this sucks. I love htc and the OPENNESS of android. Why I DIDN'T go with Motorola for an android device.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

we need to apeal to htc to please not do this!!

GnatGoSplat said:
What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Even if HTC were to start locking the bootloader at the behest of one particular network (and frankly, I find the notion that any one network would have enough clout to try and impose such measures questionable, to say the least), there'd be no reason for HTC to do this to all their handsets.
This is a decision HTC have made themselves.
GnatGoSplat said:
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also true - XDA may be big but it doesn't compare to the number of phones being sold.
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.

man i hope somebody talks some sense into them

This is bonkers what are they doing this for?

GnatGoSplat said:
How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't know for sure, but when you hook up you phone to your computer and flash it, your computer and phone will communicate with each other, and the computer will tell the phone what the new rom will be. Now, the people here at xda only have to figure out how to tell the phone what the new rom is.
But with this new security, not only do will we have to figure out how to tell it, we also have to answer the phones question to the computer, what the password is to flash it. This password is only known to HTC.

Step666 said:
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing. The new devices with be unlocked and made available to the people who'll use them.

If HTC locked the phones like Motorola does, then there will be no further HTC gadgets for me.
I didn't buy Motorola because of the same reason.

Every time they make a "secure lock" it takes all of a week to open and rewrite
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
This is phase and as such, will pass

oka1 said:
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you need to re-read that.
The Supreme Court said it wasn't illegal to hack/tweak/modify software such as rooting/jail-breaking but that doesn't magically give you a right to do so.
If end-users have the right to modify their handsets, how do Motorola get away with their encrypted bootloader?

My confession:

Man, this is definitely the hardest thing I've ever decided to post to XDA...
Long story not-so-short: I won a GC to Best Buy for 500$ from a local gaming establishment...(read: illegal slot-machine parlor type place).
I had no idea what to get, as I already have a jillion Android devices/tables/phones/accessories and so on...
On a whim, I decided to just get an iPad 2, (just the 16GB, WIFI-only version, just to kinda see what all the hype was all about, and also due to the fact that I had played a couple of games on the store demos and was pretty impressed.)
Mind you, (and if you have ever read any of my anti-Apple rants on XDA) this was my FIRST time owning anything from the company, and I hadn't really touched an I-anything since the mid-eighties, when I used an original Mac in my high school computer lab for writing assignments..
Now, having no recent experience whatsoever with "today's" iOS, upon first use of thie thing I was greatly impressed just with the slickness of the interface overall, and the fact that the first couple of FPS's I legally bought from the app store looked and ran flawlessly (oh yeah, that Temple Run thing is also like video-crack).
I was pretty floored already, but when I decided to jailbreak it and install the basics like Cydia, installous, and Dreamboard, that's kinda when "**** got real".
I realized that many of the arguments I used online when dismissing iOS as a "real" option for someone who is into device hackery as much as I am suddenly dissolved...
No app drawer, or widgets?
No longer the case, solved by a Dreamboard theme...
No live wallpapers, or custom keyboards?
Same story.
ONLY able to use a proprietary Market for apps, music, books, movies, etc?
Solved by Installous and Cydia.
Bonus?
I can theme this thing to look and feel just like a Honeycomb tablet:
For instance, here's my current setup on this thing, and I'm really just scratching the surface of learning what can be done with it:
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"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
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Here's a page that shows a couple of more themes I can 'one-click' add:
And here's a freaking app-drawer on an iOS device, something I didn't know was possible:
Basically, I'm just "coming out" and admitting that I'm actually quite smitten with this iPad, which is something I NEVER thought I would say:
(I still couldn't EVER use an iPhone as a daily because there are still a ****ton of limitations compared to Android, so that would never happen, but I gotta say, that for a tablet, even compared to my other Android tablets, right now this is my favorite....)
Please, don't hate me, fellas...(but have fun with the obvious flames that are to be expected....I just had to give props where props were due.)
Anyone else out there with a similar experience?
Sent from my (still can't bring myself to use it in a sig) using Tapatalk HD.

I have an itouch and I've used a number of iPads they are nice I'm considering getting one but I'm waiting a bit more just to see if the rumors about the iPad 3 are true. I've already got apps in iTunes that will work that I bought so not a big deal. To each their own a lot of people hate Apple I do on certain things but they do actually make some good products.

Nothing wrong with a device that makes you happy, regardless of the make/os.
Ill admit to having one for a week, but my reaction was different. After having a galaxy tab 10.1 I couldn't adjust and even with jail breaking I hated it.
Hope it continues to keep you satisfied. What most diehards on both sides often forget is there's room for both makes in the world.
The best device will always be whatever makes you happy.
Congrats on your purchase.

Mazook...i would have never thought it possible! Well it is a great device so have fun and enjoy. People bicker alot about apple/android and which is better but i feel both are great. So why not just enjoy all the great mobile tech we have available and appreciate it for what it all is......AWESOME!! Thanks for sharing man.
sent from an e4gt hungry for some ice cream sandwich

Nice purchase! iPads are pretty powerful and useful. I do think it's a bit ironic that you've themed it to look and perform like an Android tablet

lol get to making an asop android 4.0 and we got us a real tablet

I don't get why people get on here to brag about their ipads and iPhones. Really now.

Now that right there is a damn sexy setup for an iPad. Jailbreaking was definitely a must for me on my last 2 iOS devices. People can hate on Apple all they want (like I do ) but they do make high quality products.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

My butthole still itches....
Thinking of writing a post about it.
.

iPads are OK, as long as you can never ever ever EVER touch iTunes. That's the deal breaker for me. I can't stand that POS. My wife has an unmodded iPad, and every time I have to update her machine, iTunes pisses me off. Heck, it even pisses her off because her bible software (Olive Tree) seems to lose settings after a major OS rev. I've had to fight with the stupid thing to get her purchases from OT back onto her device. The device itself isn't bad, although it's pretty limited for me, but iTunes is the debil, Momma!

Well since we are confessing... it was actually me who chopped down the cherry tree. George Washington is innocent! Whew! I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Are we really so engaged in fake-warfare with cellphones that threads such as these are the norm at XDA?
Just curious help me out here.

I love my iPad 2. I have played with practically every other tablet out there, I still think it's the only one worth getting.

nibrwr said:
Nice purchase! iPads are pretty powerful and useful. I do think it's a bit ironic that you've themed it to look and perform like an Android tablet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol...because that's the only thing my brain knows how to use: I can manipulate through home screens, sling thru apps no prob with an Android setup: it's all I've ever known: seriously, until I put that simple little Xoom theme on it, I was moving thru screens on it like a retarded baboon might: (no offense to any retarded baboons out there).
Also, to Phatman: not trying to come on XDA to "glorify" this thing: I was just pleasantly surprised by something from a company that, in the past, I always (rightfully!) bashed because of their business model and completely proprietary products: I'm just showing that I found what a difference a jailbroken device can make: I'm not selling or advocating the purchase of one: Hell, I thought I'd be the LAST person on Earth to ever own one: the ONLY idevice I've ever purchased before was a Bluetooth keyboard from Apple that I bought from Walmart, at like 2AM to test out on a Nook Color when CM first got it working: they had no other Bluetooth keyboards from other manufacturers available, and it took me like 20 minutes of just staring at the package to make up my mind a "go thru with the purchase", with all the "ethical issues" the entire buying process was creating for me....
Trust me, bro: this was far more "confession-time" than "finding new religion-time".
Edit: Robzilla: thanks for the tip about iTunes: haven't used it: now I'll know not to use it in the future.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

iOS is NO DOUBT a fantastic product and device. but 2 things do bother me, and both of them are really more about business
1. i shouldnt have to jailbreak/root a device to customize it... (keyboards, themes, launchers, etc)
2. i REFUSE to buy products from a business who conducts themselves in such a sleazy manner. just like i cant stand the fanboy who justifies apples ethics because "they are superior". sounds a lot like a certain Pro-Aryan leader of the past...
other than that, im glad you are happy with it! remember, i hate APPLE, not you.

mazook98 said:
Basically, I'm just "coming out"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever makes you happy dude
The iPad is a great product but Apple sucks as a company that's all

The iPad destroys Android tablets. The transformer prime is less usable than the iPad from early last year. I prefer Android on the phone over iOS, but Google and the manufacturers don't get what made the iPad successful, stability, convenience, and the apple store warranty process when something goes wrong, not specs and features. People go to a laptop/desktop when they want specs and features. If your customer has to pay shipping for defects or read 50 page filled forum with complaints, then you are doing it wrong.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 will be the IPads worst nightmare. I have a perfectly operating prime and ipad2 that will both be kicked to the curb for the 10.1 note
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

ilostmypistons said:
Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 will be the IPads worst nightmare. I have a perfectly operating prime and ipad2 that will both be kicked to the curb for the 10.1 note
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Samsung would only improve their update policies. People buying an iPad know apple will give them the cool new features for at least 2 years after the sale. Android buyers are becoming paralyzed because they don't know which device will be supported. Anybody with professional sales experience will tell you eliminating obstacles to buying is key, I wish Samsung would realize this.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

kingsway8605 said:
If Samsung would only improve their update policies. People buying an iPad know apple will give them the cool new features for at least 2 years after the sale. Android buyers are becoming paralyzed because they don't know which device will be supported. Anybody with professional sales experience will tell you eliminating obstacles to buying is key, I wish Samsung would realize this.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phones being released now are awesome out the of the box. SGII running 2.3 is good. Ice Cream update is only going to make the majority angry. Why do people think that updates that change the look of the device equates to good? It doesn't. On XDA we are an extreme minority. I wish more people would realize this. GPS works, phone works, text work, apps are awesome with many choices to pick from so what is wrong with it? Oh... it isn't running the latest android OS and that means the device isn't supported, right? Wrong. We just got another update for random fixes on a already stable device.
Here is my reasoning in regards to Apple projects or Android. If I have to go to the extreme to modify it to my liking then your not getting my money. I will not support locking down my devices. I would enjoy a free Ipad. I'd probably love it. But I'm not going to give Apple any money. I'm not going to give Motorola any love with a locked boot loader either. Or Assassin Creed for the PC, they aren't getting any support from me. The choice between Barnes and Nobles and Amazon Tablet for me is simple, Amazon because they didn't lock the boot loader.

Does this bother any other one s owners?

http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/7/16/3162319/android-jelly-bean-htc-hd2-hack
Granted the hd2 has been around for a long time and has an established base, the one s is a flagship device with great specs and seems like the developer base just isn't there. Why is that?

I actually think that's pretty damn awesome that they're able to do that. We need those devs on here

I don't disagree that its great there is continued development for the hd2, but the one s is in every way a much more capable device yet lacks a jb port that can even boot at this point. Chalk it up to the newness of the hardware and lack of experienced developers? Or is there not a lot of interest in this device?
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app

It bothers me a lot. I keep saying that the community for this phone sucks but everyone just flames the hell out of me when I say that.
I mean this phone is full of flaws to begin with. Then it doesn't have the community to develop some quality roms for it. And all the tech sites are just blogging about the One X and neglecting the One S. So it doesn't attract any new people at all. Yet the One S is just as flagship as the One X. I believe that the S4 is still the best chip on the market right now.

Bohemus said:
I don't disagree that its great there is continued development for the hd2, but the one s is in every way a much more capable device yet lacks a jb port that can even boot at this point. Chalk it up to the newness of the hardware and lack of experienced developers? Or is there not a lot of interest in this device?
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The One S got overshadowed by the One X and then the Gal S 3. So simply put -- NO, there's not a lot of interest in the device. It's a shame because it truly is a great device, and is fast as hell. Unfortunately that's just how things so sometimes in the world of Android devices.
That being said, our dev community is by no means tiny. It's just smaller than the more popular devices like the HD2, and all the Nexus line. There's a lot of factors that play into the size of the dev community, such as specs, how hard/easy it is to unlock and root, kernel sources being released (this def hurt the One S for a while), manufacturer support, etc.

wilcoholic said:
It bothers me a lot. I keep saying that the community for this phone sucks but everyone just flames the hell out of me when I say that.
I mean this phone is full of flaws to begin with. Then it doesn't have the community to develop some quality roms for it. And all the tech sites are just blogging about the One X and neglecting the One S. So it doesn't attract any new people at all. Yet the One S is just as flagship as the One X. I believe that the S4 is still the best chip on the market right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You get flamed, because even though the community lacks. You cannot take ANYTHING away from the dev's who have put time into making quality Rom's for the community. The word "sucks" brings down everyone who has put in work.
When i first got my Mytouch 4g Slide. There was 2 Rom's for atleast a month. Maybe 3 roms by 2 months. Be happy for what we have. Not for what we don't have.. if the community "sucks" so bad. Pick up a book and learn to cook us up some Rom's. Until then don't bring the dev's down because you're mad there isn't 15 roms to pick from..
S4 is the best IMO right now. Eventually things will kick up. Once the phone gets some time under it's belt. TMO will start giving them out at discounted prices. That's when this phone will pick up..
By all means don't take this as a "flame" because it's not. Just a friendly reminder that we do have good dev's. And they do deserve respect.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

Easy, sell the ONE S, buy a HD2.
Problem Solved

solracarevir said:
Easy, sell the ONE S, buy a HD2.
Problem Solved
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And then comes the useless comments
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium

nickmv said:
The One S got overshadowed by the One X and then the Gal S 3. So simply put -- NO, there's not a lot of interest in the device. It's a shame because it truly is a great device, and is fast as hell. Unfortunately that's just how things so sometimes in the world of Android devices.
That being said, our dev community is by no means tiny. It's just smaller than the more popular devices like the HD2, and all the Nexus line. There's a lot of factors that play into the size of the dev community, such as specs, how hard/easy it is to unlock and root, kernel sources being released (this def hurt the One S for a while), manufacturer support, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's T-Mobile in general. I don't think a lot of developers are on t-mobile because we aren't known for getting the best phones.

c19932 said:
And then comes the useless comments
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Blaming and Bashing is more useless.
I mean, You can't compare the size and the Quality of the HD2 community with the ONE S community.
Once google releases a OS that didn't came preloaded with our phone we should not be whining about why X phone (which is inferior than mine) already have that OS and we don't.
We will get JB someday, thanks to the developer community. As I said earlier, if you cant wait to have JB don't complain, learn to build JB from source and do it yourself or buy a HD2 (which by the looks of it, they already have JB)

Hd2 is from t mobile and it's a great phone
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app

And so is the HTC Sensation, which have a great developer community. If I don't remember wrong it was one of the first devices to receive ICS on late december.
Developers follow devices, I mean, some of them Do care about carriers, but if the device is good, developers will look for it.

Both phones
solracarevir said:
Easy, sell the ONE S, buy a HD2.
Problem Solved
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both phones. Loved, loved, absolutely loved the support for the HD2. But by no means was there always some HUGE selection. It took a lot of patience to hold out for some of the ROMs I knew were coming. I think the development for this phone will pick up.

solracarevir said:
And so is the HTC Sensation, which have a great developer community. If I don't remember wrong it was one of the first devices to receive ICS on late december.
Developers follow devices, I mean, some of them Do care about carriers, but if the device is good, developers will look for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of the sensation cm just posted this image on g+ hopefully this means something is on the horizon for us.
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I'm pretty sure we'll get 4.1. Even the Blaze 4G is getting ICS.

Everything is ported to the hd2. It's the swiss army knife of phones. You want windows, android, meego? Boom! It's great just watching it unfold! Going to flash jb as soon as theirs a solid rom. Don't forget the hd2 has paid its dues from booting from sd and duel booting, etc. It's been a long grueling 3 years. The hos is still in its infancy.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda premium

jacewt said:
I think it's T-Mobile in general. I don't think a lot of developers are on t-mobile because we aren't known for getting the best phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's more that homebrew communities develop around the devices that can be used off contract or at off-contract prices.
Hence things like the HD2, the Sensation, and the Nexus become far more popular than they otherwise would be if they couldn't be used on a ton of networks without full data pricing. In fact, those devices continue to be relevant long after their hardware would indicate they should be.

Not really
The Devs have already started the JB 10 roms cooking, I think we have some good devs in here, they ave already started the JB 10 roms cooking. I for one would love a full CM9 port with a good camera. I try not to worry what roms the other phones have seeing as I don't have those phones.

Hopefully you guys can get a larger community going. The support for my Sensation has been nothing short of phenomenal. Got ICS super early, already have had JB alphas for a week. The number of ROMs can be overwhelming, and truth be told the support is what keeps me with a phone that is lacking in the hardware department.
Sent from my Sensation using xda app-developers app

People seem to be forgetting that the reason jelly bean updates are rolling out so quickly is because a lot of the work was done in ICS. And previous to that ICS was a laborious process hampered by the refusal of google to release honeycomb.
This device didn't exist during gingerbread so we didn't have a large base of developers refreshing for a code drop so they could release something for a hungry and eager audience. Also, it's difficult to develop for a device that one doesn't own. The One is still a flagship model and few people own one and even fewer want to brick their new device.
If another six months pass and development hasn't picked up then we might be able to express concern but right now being worried about where the stuff is seems premature to me.

Unofficial Verizon Locked Bootloader Discussion Thread

Figure we can keep the back and forth here and out of the R&D thread...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

I'm curious how closely the USCellular model is to Verizon's and if it is the USCellular model that Samsung will sell as a "developers edition"
Any ideas?

I hope it's not too late. That thread seems long gone... I'm just glad people are staying out of AdamOutler's r&d thread. They actually seem to be getting somewhere.

Wontfinishlast said:
I hope it's not too late. That thread seems long gone... I'm just glad people are staying out of AdamOutler's r&d thread. They actually seem to be getting somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's some very intelligent people working in there. It amazes me.

Thanks for creating this thread. I keep an eye on the bootloader threads and get tired of having to suffer through pages and pages of people *****ing and moaning about everything related to the bootloader issue except the actual progress in development.
Sent from my LOCKED (Verizon, you suck), SCH-I535.

For anyone interested, I submitted a complaint to the FCC regarding the locked bootloader on the GS3. If you'd like to do the same, go to fcc.gov and click on file a complaint. Then choose wireless provider and then choose the option related to deceptive actions. There is a 1000 character limit to your complaint. Here is the text of my complaint.
Verizon is the only major carrier to have released the Samsung Galaxy SIII with a locked bootloader. There was nothing in Verizon's advertised specs about a locked bootloader. Their explanation is that the device is locked to maintain the security and integrity of the network. However, they are currently selling another Samsung phone, the Galaxy Nexus which has an unlockable bootloader. Also, Verizon has announced a "developer edition" of the Galaxy SIII with an unlockable bootloader for use on Verizon's network. That device must be purchased directly from Samsung for $599. How can Verizon claim a network security and integrity issue and then sell, offer and allow such devices on their network? I feel that Verizon has tricked many customers into paying for a device that they can't use to it's full potential. They know that "security" is a great loophole for complying with the letter of their Auction 73 Block C requirements while totally violating the spirit of that agreement.
That complaint is 990 characters. If you'd like to copy it for your own use, please feel free to do so. Hopefully, enough of us will do this to get the attention of the FCC, consumer organizations and those in positions of influence over the wireless industry.
Sent from my LOCKED (Verizon, you suck), SCH-I535.

I didn't get a chance to file a complaint with the FCC last night but will tonight.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

Filed mine yesterday..

Got a call from VZW customer service today. They asked if I was content with my recent upgrade!
She agreed with me that often people buy Androids instead of iPhones because Androids are so customizeable. I expected to be able to use an OS of my choosing on this phone, so I am upset that Verizon locked the bootloader. She understood and sympathized, and now on a server somewhere in the world, there's a short note stating that I'm unhappy with my upgrade.

makogaleos said:
Got a call from VZW customer service today. They asked if I was content with my recent upgrade!
She agreed with me that often people buy Androids instead of iPhones because Androids are so customizeable. I expected to be able to use an OS of my choosing on this phone, so I am upset that Verizon locked the bootloader. She understood and sympathized, and now on a server somewhere in the world, there's a short note stating that I'm unhappy with my upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha.. awesome!
I understand the notes on my Verizon account are "colorful."

This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
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Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.

BarryH_GEG said:
This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Help us draft a response to help describe the issues, without losing our audience then.

ancashion said:
Help us draft a response to help describe the issues, without losing our audience then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

Honestly, with the latest kexec method, I'm not sweating the boatloader anymore
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

wera750 said:
Honestly, with the latest kexec method, I'm not sweating the boatloader anymore
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I may be wrong here because I've never flashed a rom but come to the S3 from an X2 so I've done my time with encrypted boot-loaders, but-
I thought we could change settings/features/etc. on each Rom, but, changing the base kernel of the OS is impossible. Thus, when a new OS is released from Google- say key lime pie, and it drastically changes the kernel, we will forever be prevented from putting that on our device.
Again, I may be wrong. My understanding of it is very limited.
---------- Post added at 09:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 AM ----------
jaj6503 said:
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn- I'm already out of thanks to give.
I'd give you a gold star, but there ain't any. how about a :good:

jaj6503 said:
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's "Barry" and I have no problem helping you guys.
"People choose Android phones for their openness. That openness allows portability so we can use the phones we've purchased from a single carrier on other carriers so that, based on the free market competition the FCC fosters, we have choices. Up until Verizon launched the new Samsung Galaxy SIII which is projected to sell in the tens of millions, Verizon (like all the other carriers) supported Android's openness and portability. With this new device, Verizon has locked the bootloader (the ability for users to modify the phone) limiting its portability. They did so without any communication with customers only finding out after entering in to a 2-year binding agreement with penalties. If other carriers follow Verizon’s dangerous precedent, and it’s reasonable to think they will, it runs contra to everything the FCC works so diligently to uphold. ”

BarryH_GEG said:
It's "Barry" and I have no problem helping you guys.
"People choose Android phones for their openness. That openness allows portability so we can use the phones we've purchased from a single carrier on other carriers so that, based on the free market competition the FCC fosters, we have choices. Up until Verizon launched the new Samsung Galaxy SIII which is projected to sell in the tens of millions, Verizon (like all the other carriers) supported Android's openness and portability. With this new device, Verizon has locked the bootloader (the ability for users to modify the phone) limiting its portability. They did so without any communication with customers only finding out after entering in to a 2-year binding agreement with penalties. If other carriers follow Verizon’s dangerous precedent, and it’s reasonable to think they will, it runs contra to everything the FCC works so diligently to uphold. ”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your post, Barry.
FCC is not ignorant to their own laws. That is, their jobs, after all. It is okay to include a bit of legalese in this case. Maybe mentioning Block C requirements §27.16(e).
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree though with the encryption of the bootloader locking down the OS. That, they don't care about which has already been proved by Verizon's response to the Razr FCC complaint suggesting it was for "customer service requirements" and "Network security."
Section (e) of §27.16 also includes a blip about the locking down of the device to prevent said device from being used on a different network.
Verizon, will have to explain the reasonableness of keeping an encrypted lock on your device after you've decided to make the switch.
But, for it to work, you must first be truthfully denied by Verizon for this request. Only then, can you back them into a corner.
Truthfully, this will work for all 4g devices, from the Razr to the S3 with encrypted bootloaders.
I explain in more detail here, however, I got very few responses as it think it was over the heads of most.
Really, it's quite simple and again, VZW will have to explain how the action is reasonable, which I can't think of one way they can do. Not when I've decided to take this device to a different network. Basically, they'll tell the FCC it's "reasonable" to lock me to VZW's network which is expressly prohibited by that law. I just can't see how they can do it.
Edit- I'm all out of thanks to give so :good:

ancashion said:
Now I may be wrong here because I've never flashed a rom but come to the S3 from an X2 so I've done my time with encrypted boot-loaders, but-
I thought we could change settings/features/etc. on each Rom, but, changing the base kernel of the OS is impossible. Thus, when a new OS is released from Google- say key lime pie, and it drastically changes the kernel, we will forever be prevented from putting that on our device.
Again, I may be wrong. My understanding of it is very limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe you are mistaken.
I came from a Droid 2 Global, where we had a similar situation. We were stuck on the Gingerbread kernel, and with no kexec, we were unable to chain-load a new kernel. We eventually got ICS ports like CM9, but that's because developers made lots of wrappers to make the existing Android ICS framework compatible with the Gingerbread kernel.
This is different from the Galaxy S3, however. We have a working kexec port that allows us to chain-load any custom kernel we want. This means that the bootloader initially loads the original, signed Samsung kernel, and then while that kernel is running, it actually loads our new, unsigned kernel directly on top of the currently running kernel. The unsigned kernel is then the one handling everything. There is pretty much nothing from the kernel-upwards that we can't modify- it's only the lower level stuff, which is pretty much just the bootloader itself.
We now have an auto-kexec method that streamlines the entire process, too. Previously, the kexec/kernel package had to be flashed in recovery before starting Android, otherwise the new kernel would not be loaded. The auto-kexec method keeps everything on a cache partition, and automatically flashes the package with each reboot. Basically the only drawback to our auto-kexec method is that it takes a bit longer to reboot/start the device, because it must first automatically boot into recovery and flash the package.
Still, this method pretty much entirely circumvents the bootloader. Plus, if you've taken a look at the CM9 install guide for our device, the actual installations of ROMs with auto-exec are now as simple as flashing the custom recovery to the device and then flashing a ROM via recovery. It's near-identical to how you normally flash ROMs.
Because of all this hard work, AOSP ROMs with custom kernels are a reality, and I can only hope we'll see official support from the CyanogenMod team and other major ROM teams.

ExodusC said:
I believe you are mistaken.
I came from a Droid 2 Global, where we had a similar situation. We were stuck on the Gingerbread kernel, and with no kexec, we were unable to chain-load a new kernel. We eventually got ICS ports like CM9, but that's because developers made lots of wrappers to make the existing Android ICS framework compatible with the Gingerbread kernel.
This is different from the Galaxy S3, however. We have a working kexec port that allows us to chain-load any custom kernel we want. This means that the bootloader initially loads the original, signed Samsung kernel, and then while that kernel is running, it actually loads our new, unsigned kernel directly on top of the currently running kernel. The unsigned kernel is then the one handling everything. There is pretty much nothing from the kernel-upwards that we can't modify- it's only the lower level stuff, which is pretty much just the bootloader itself.
We now have an auto-kexec method that streamlines the entire process, too. Previously, the kexec/kernel package had to be flashed in recovery before starting Android, otherwise the new kernel would not be loaded. The auto-kexec method keeps everything on a cache partition, and automatically flashes the package with each reboot. Basically the only drawback to our auto-kexec method is that it takes a bit longer to reboot/start the device, because it must first automatically boot into recovery and flash the package.
Still, this method pretty much entirely circumvents the bootloader. Plus, if you've taken a look at the CM9 install guide for our device, the actual installations of ROMs with auto-exec are now as simple as flashing the custom recovery to the device and then flashing a ROM via recovery. It's near-identical to how you normally flash ROMs.
Because of all this hard work, AOSP ROMs with custom kernels are a reality, and I can only hope we'll see official support from the CyanogenMod team and other major ROM teams.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your reply. I have no more thanks to give so :good: will have to do. I'll try and come back to give the props you deserve.
My apologies for being so thick on it. I've got a ton to learn.

BarryH_GEG said:
This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but he looks like the type that would have 3 hot female geek interns that could explain it to him. FCC takes the time to figure out the whole situation I dunno how you can judge what someone looks like as to what power they may have... Hes got the finger that could potentially hit the red button. I mean common hes go a red tie! I'll try and file a complaint this weekend. I'm not really cool with the whole 14 day return deal. I want the phone that was advertised because I had to upgrade due the the fact i was forced to... keep in mind they didn't let us know via Verizon to customer communication only through thrid party...

So let's overwhelm them with #'s

We need to start an "S3 Unlock " campaign on Verizon's and Samsung's facebook and email to make our dissatisfaction more visible. Will this have any impact, I don't know, but it's something easily done with almost no effort that the general consumer and non-development community will easily see.
This has worked in the past with the HTC EVO 3D. If the community can get HTC, a million dollar company to notice, maybe it will work with a billion dollar company.
Why should we send to Samsung when it's Verizon that locked the bootloader? The reason for it is more then likely Verizon will try to pawn it off on Samsung; by saying they locked it or they have to build the unlock tool. So, before this becomes a “blame game” We don't care who is responsible, we just want “Developmental Equality” for all S3's
So as Bob Marley said: “Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!” and take 3 minutes out of your day to help out the community.
What needs to be done:
Post "S3 Unlock or WE Walk" on Verizon's and Samsung's facebook. This would have a greater impact if it were posted everyday! “Don't let them forget about us!”
Email:
Under subject put: “S3 Unlock Bootloader” and in the body put “S3 Unlock ”
Samsung Contact:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungUSA
Y.K. Kim
president and Chief Executive Officer of Samsung Electronics America
[email protected]
Dale Sohn
President at Samsung Telecommunications America
[email protected]
https://contactus.samsung.com/custo...estionGeneral.jsp?SITE_ID=591&PROD_ID=G303850
Verizon Contact:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Daniel S. Mead
President and CEO
[email protected]
Marni Walden
Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer
[email protected]

I understand what you want to do but alot of this is already being done by alot if angry customers. Verizon doesnt seem to care. All they did was blame Samsung.

Doesn't it make more sense that hitting them with a mass amount of posts and emails would do more than maybe 20 emails a day. It would get more attention if even just 1% of Verizon's customers were to flood them with posts and emails..this would be in the numbers up to 250,000 emails and facebook posts. They could still ignore it, but this would create more negative publicity. This is also why I am asking everyone to flood Samsung as well, eventually hopefully one of them will correct the issue. In time and numbers they will get tired of it and deal with us. Have you sent an email to Verizon or posted on their facebook?

Verizon might not admit that they are wrong, but any company is highly concerned about their public image. Facebook and Twitter can be a valuable tool to fight corporate arrogance.
One more thing to do... everyone should write a review on Verizon's web site slamming the locked bootloader, with a suggestion that this is a great phone on any provider but Verizon. I just clicked on the "Read reviews" link for the 32GB blue S3, and 4 out of the first ten reviews mentioned the locked bootloader.
We might never get them to unlock this particular bootloader, but at a minimum it would make them think twice about the future of locked bootloaders.
Verizon is betting on our apathy, so I applaud anyone who is willing to spend a bit of time keeping the heat on Verizon.

If you're serious about trying to piss them off, create an Anti Samsung Facebook page and / or Twitter Account basically blasting them for ****ty things they do, such as slow updates to products, locked bootloader, etc.
I once complained on Twitter about my GT 10.1 and didn't even direct it to them and I had their twitter person contact me and ask me if there was something they could do to help me.
They don't like knowing people are badmouthing them on social networks.
As for Verizon, they're used to people talking smack on them and don't seem the slightest bit phased.

If you're not part of the solution...you're part of the problem

I mean I guess anything's worth a try...but I don't think Verizon cares.

topmetsfan said:
I mean I guess anything's worth a try...but I don't think Verizon cares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They seem to hate me. Emailed the CEO about the bootloader, got the standard letter in the mail about "network security" from some high chair rep. His problem is he said "feel free to call with questions" in the letter, as well as his number. I have called him 5 times in the past 2 weeks, always leaving a message. I have still yet to get a call back. I wont stop til I can voice my opinion and get some answers.

I've been tweeting and posting on their facebook pages that I am unhappy about the locked boot loader and spyware on the phone.
It of course won't do any good, but maybe if other non dev/hacker types see the posts they will inquire or think twice.

dvaderx said:
I've been tweeting and posting on their facebook pages that I am unhappy about the locked boot loader and spyware on the phone.
It of course won't do any good, but maybe if other non dev/hacker types see the posts they will inquire or think twice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But other non dev/hacker types won't understand what a bootloader is and what the difference is between a locked and unlocked.

fluxvalve said:
Verizon might not admit that they are wrong, but any company is highly concerned about their public image. Facebook and Twitter can be a valuable tool to fight corporate arrogance.
One more thing to do... everyone should write a review on Verizon's web site slamming the locked bootloader, with a suggestion that this is a great phone on any provider but Verizon. I just clicked on the "Read reviews" link for the 32GB blue S3, and 4 out of the first ten reviews mentioned the locked bootloader.
We might never get them to unlock this particular bootloader, but at a minimum it would make them think twice about the future of locked bootloaders.
Verizon is betting on our apathy, so I applaud anyone who is willing to spend a bit of time keeping the heat on Verizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why they even try to lock them I don't even get. It just seems like a waste of their time and resources. Just look at the s3, it was basically cracked before release and we already can do just about anything we want on it. It makes them look bad and does nothing and it makes even less sense when they have unlocked phones on their network. Bunch of dummies if you ask me
---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 AM ----------
ddggttff3 said:
They seem to hate me. Emailed the CEO about the bootloader, got the standard letter in the mail about "network security" from some high chair rep. His problem is he said "feel free to call with questions" in the letter, as well as his number. I have called him 5 times in the past 2 weeks, always leaving a message. I have still yet to get a call back. I wont stop til I can voice my opinion and get some answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you do, If you do, point out they sell unlocked phones on their network and that virtually every phone they sell has been hacked and its just a waste of their time.

piiman said:
Why they even try to lock them I don't even get. It just seems like a waste of their time and resources. Just look at the s3, it was basically cracked before release and we already can do just about anything we want on it. It makes them look bad and does nothing and it makes even less sense when they have unlocked phones on their network. Bunch of dummies if you ask me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If my x2 bootloader wasn't locked down like it is, ii wouldn't have purchased a new phone. Hardware is staying viable for a longer time than they would like, but, by locking down the software used they can obsolete your device long before the hardware is obsolete. Those who are savvy enough to hack it and put what they want on it also upgrade quick to the newest hardware for the wow factor and vzw knows this. Locking the device down prevents people like me from upgrading software easily, thus forcing a hardware upgrade- to achieve my desire for a software upgrade.
It's quite simple really. Phone sales. If any Joe-Schmoe could upgrade their droidx2 to jellybean, they wouldn't see that phone sale. No phone sale = no new 2 year contract.
They don't market the hardware specs at all like they market the OS.
It must be worth it to them to lock it down and hope to see a device sold. Henry Ford said he'd give the cars away for free if he can be the only one to sell the parts. Vzw has aligned themselves closely with this mentality.
Sent from my locked Verizon s3

ancashion said:
If my x2 bootloader wasn't locked down like it is, ii wouldn't have purchased a new phone. Hardware is staying viable for a longer time than they would like, but, by locking down the software used they can obsolete your device long before the hardware is obsolete. Those who are savvy enough to hack it and put what they want on it also upgrade quick to the newest hardware for the wow factor and vzw knows this. Locking the device down prevents people like me from upgrading software easily, thus forcing a hardware upgrade- to achieve my desire for a software upgrade.
It's quite simple really. Phone sales. If any Joe-Schmoe could upgrade their droidx2 to jellybean, they wouldn't see that phone sale. No phone sale = no new 2 year contract.
They don't market the hardware specs at all like they market the OS.
It must be worth it to them to lock it down and hope to see a device sold. Henry Ford said he'd give the cars away for free if he can be the only one to sell the parts. Vzw has aligned themselves closely with this mentality.
Sent from my locked Verizon s3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This ^^^^^
I have the Verizon Samsung Fascinate that is running Jelly Bean better than some phones out now and this phone only has 384 mb of RAM and has been out for 2 years. Through the efforts of some of the best Devs out there, this phone has lived well longer than it should have (seeing as Samsung/Verizon only supported it up to GB). I've gotten the best battery life at almost 2 days of moderate usage, it's snappy, and still is getting support from the community, because of this I've seen no reason to upgrade other than to have the latest and greatest. A locked boot loader in their mind would prevent this. Keeping hardware, that could last well longer than 2 years, from keeping up with the latest software updates. But with the hard work of the Devs and the community, even with locked bootloaders we can still keep up with the latest (ex. Kexec for VZW GS3). I hope for an unlocked bootloader, but with the great Devs out there I'm not to worried. Waiting for my locked S3 to come in the mail and plan on rooting and customizing it how I want with kexec even with a locked bootloader. I do wish those who have messaged Verizon and Samsung the best of luck. But I won't be holding my breath for them, I'll be holding it for the great Devs and the great community.
CM10 on Fascinate
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Lovely Battery Life
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium

I have a fascinate as well from a while back when my wife had it. I've been strongly considering returning my s3 after I mod the fascinate like you have (since I've never done it before...) and rock it until something worthwhile comes out
Sent from my locked Verizon s3

I'm really hoping you guys get your bootloader unlocked but speaking from experience I don't think it will work. As you can see in my sig I have owned a lot of Moto/VZW phones and people were spamming FB and twitter and starting petitions and it never did anything. But I wish you luck that you can get somewhere with sammy because god knows VZW doesn't give a sh!t about there customers.