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[Q] When can we expect support until? First gen WP7 devices

When can we expect support to continue until for our trophys and omnias through official roms? Tango? Apollo? Unknown?

Bump (10char)

well i dont think even microsoft employees know this for sure so its just guessing for now... id say the apollo will be the last update available for us ;]

Apollo is WP8? With only one generation of phones available, I'm eager to see how (and if) MS will take care of the old devices in a year or so. Did they ever say something in this regard?

Yea, apollo is rumoured to be the next big mango like release and bring WP8 while tango will be the nodo like one.

I think that actualization will be available as long as hardware in our mobiles will be sufficient.

So this is official support. Although unless hardware requirements change I'm sure we will still get some custom roms afterwards which will give us new updates etc.
Btw when are tango and Apollo suspected to be released? Would make sense for Apollo (provided it is indeed wp8) to be released with Windows 8 which is rumored Q4 2012. How long after Apollo will there be a new update and will we still be supported?
I am assuming most of us are on a 2 year contract so if the updates are "to die for" I don't see it being too much of a problem as we could possibly just upgrade to a next Gen windows phone device

Nothing official or unofficial has been said that I know of. However I think Apollo would be the last update available for us.
It would make sense for them to support phones for at least two years, that way hardware won't hold back the progress in regards to the actual operating system. Plus after 2 years most people in the US are eligible for an upgrade!

Zune players
The Zune players have been supported for many years. So we can at least hope for the same with the phones to receive updates as long as the hardware supports it. The only problem is that now it depends on the OEMs and carriers as well.

Help with my decision

Hello guys
I have quite a dilemma right now. Im seriously thinking about buying Lumia 900 when it will be avalible in Europe. I Love the looks, love Nokia brand, love the Windows Phone..amazing phone BUT i was thinking. Since the Lumia 900 is only a single core phone (I dont care bout hw specs, since WP is working fast as hell) and the Windows 8 or Apollo ? is behind the door with the multi-core support im really worried about the update of the Lumia 900. What do you guys think ? Will the Lumia 900 get the Windows Apollo update or NOT ?
Its quite (HELL expensive) expensive phone i dont want to buy it and get it outdated in 6 months, with no chance of updating to amazing Apollo.
Your opinions ? Should i buy or should i wait ? :/
Thanks

Since nobody here works for Microsoft (however MS employees already signed a very strong NDA, so they are more silent than regular members ) nobody can tell you exactly how amazing Apollo will be, what handsets will receive that update etc. Only rumors and baseless assumptions.
Lumia 900 is a very good phone, so if you can afford it - buy it As for "outdated in 6 month" - it's just a current trend; manufacturers releasing new stuff every half a year; so it's not a WP specific problem. But you never be able to get a "lifetime" device; there is no such a thing.

I see no reason to suspect that current phones, especially gen2 phones, and particularly the gen2 flagship phone (Lumia 900) won't continue getting updates. This isn't Android, here. In fact, Microsoft have said they're requiring that phones be supported for some time. All current phone, including the gen 1.0 models (now 1.5 years old) are getting Tango. I wouldn't be worried.
Now, AT&T might try and screw you over with late updates and such... they have a well-deserved reputation for that kind of thing, and despite Microsoft's efforts they managed to delay some of the WP7 updates by months. Eventually, though, the updates still go out.

WP 7.8 Release?

Does anyone have any information on when WP7.8 will be available or if there is any source online to get our hands on it, so that porting may begin?
Here is an excellent article about the features one can expect in 7.8
Here's an Update wherein it is stated that RTM (Release to Manufacturing) is September while GA (General Availability) is November. ;-)

It will be released with the first WP8 devices.

They did mention that there will be a program that allows you access to the updates early. I'm not sure if Windows Phone 7.8 is included in that, or if its just Windows Phone 8 and higher.

Nokia lumia 900 gets WP7.8 for a couple of weeks, this is officialy confirmed by Nokia ana Microsoft .

theusername said:
They did mention that there will be a program that allows you access to the updates early. I'm not sure if Windows Phone 7.8 is included in that, or if its just Windows Phone 8 and higher.
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During the Summit I have understood that this feature is only for WP8-updates and not for WP7.8 because this update is released by the carriers.... So, we will have to wait .... :-/

I understood that the new update route is one of those few new things that come with 7.8

WP 7.8 is for the 1st & 2nd gen of WP devices that could not upgrade to WP8, sort of consolation

Once Nokia releases the update for Windows Phone 7.8 for the Nokia Lumia 900 can we expect a port soon to other devices like the HD7 ? or do we have to wait till HTC or Tmobile officially announces it ? (which I do not wish for)

amirox said:
Does anyone have any information on when WP7.8 will be available or if there is any source online to get our hands on it, so that porting may begin?
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This is the Windows Phone 8 forum, not 7 :silly:

wp7.8 will be sent directly, not via providers. That means everybody should get this & get this the same date.

No, WP8 will receive subsequent updates 'over the air' but you have to have it to get that as I understand it!

AFAIK Nokia plans to release the Tango update (7.5) in the upcoming weeks, not the 7.8 update. We'll probably have to wait more especially given that MS is not very confident with the 7.8 performance as of now.
Our best bet is to wait for the Windows Phone 8 SDK coming late this summer. Chances are it will include a usable WP 7.8 build.

I don't understand why people are talking about "porting" 7.8 to older phones. Every phone that runs Mango will get the 7.8 update, regardless of age or carrier. They've said they're pushing this update out without carrier intervention.
Also, Nokia did say that the 7.8 update would be release "in the coming weeks." That could mean withing the next few weeks, or by the time Windows Phone 8 comes out. Those are both technically "in the coming weeks."

amirox said:
Does anyone have any information on when WP7.8 will be available or if there is any source online to get our hands on it, so that porting may begin?
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hey, according to multiple tech sites, the Windows Phone 7.8 will be released right after the WP8 has been outed in the market.

revxx14 said:
I don't understand why people are talking about "porting" 7.8 to older phones. Every phone that runs Mango will get the 7.8 update, regardless of age or carrier. They've said they're pushing this update out without carrier intervention.
Also, Nokia did say that the 7.8 update would be release "in the coming weeks." That could mean withing the next few weeks, or by the time Windows Phone 8 comes out. Those are both technically "in the coming weeks."
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Well, I for one have an old HD2 which of course is excluded of the luxury of official updates. Also I thought it'd be more fitting to put in here than in wp7 forum because of similarity.. sorry if I was wrong there. Happy with the outcome so far. I wanted to make a platform for discussion regarding 7.8 release and that we got; )
Sent from my NexusHD2 using xda app-developers app

Will WP 7.8 contain ?
DataSmart
IE10
Company Hub
Wallet
VOIP+Skype+VideoChat
all wp8 features that not need hardware changes

Dr.Mazika said:
Will WP 7.8 contain ?
DataSmart
IE10
Company Hub
Wallet
VOIP+Skype+VideoChat
all wp8 features that not need hardware changes
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Click to collapse
No, this has been clearly said by Microsoft and followed up with big people who work with and are at Microsoft, you will ONLY get the new tile layout on the main page (to have the 3 size tiles) and nothing else.
Only other changes you could possably get will be in a App format(downloadable via the marketplace). Not a update. If you want more of the new stuff, you will have to BUY a WP8 device when it's released.
This has been said from Microsoft a few times now...
---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------
revxx14 said:
I don't understand why people are talking about "porting" 7.8 to older phones. Every phone that runs Mango will get the 7.8 update, regardless of age or carrier. They've said they're pushing this update out without carrier intervention.
Also, Nokia did say that the 7.8 update would be release "in the coming weeks." That could mean withing the next few weeks, or by the time Windows Phone 8 comes out. Those are both technically "in the coming weeks."
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There was a update to that, they took it back.
https://twitter.com/NokiaUS/status/215627719155793922
That statement that you would get 7.8 on Nokia devices in a few weeks is INCORRECT, here is WPcentral's take on it...
http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-78-update-available-weeks
It's TBA... So no one knows at this point...
Trust me, I wish it was true because if Nokia got it, we'd all get it, as I am sure someone will rip it to work on any device...

I have a Samsung focus v1.3 running a custom ROM. Will I be able to update to 7.8 when it comes out?

amirox said:
Does anyone have any information on when WP7.8 will be available or if there is any source online to get our hands on it, so that porting may begin?
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I currently run WP 7.8.

lseidman said:
I currently run WP 7.8.
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That is some kind of joke, isn´t it?!

WP8 ....made by developers for WP7.x

Okay im not a tech savvy person here but...
HD2 was able to switch from WinMobile 6.5 to Android to WinPhone 7
Is there anything preventing developers from making an unofficial port of wp7 to wp8?
Is the core structure that vast that we cant repeat history like the HD2?
Who knows, maybe HD2 will be the first to run unofficial WP8 XDD
Just a theory, feel free to debunk me straight away

With the change in kernel, it is nearly impossible i think
HD2 was able to run WP just because it was a WM 6.5 device and WM6.5 and WP7 share the same Windows CE kernel

I think we will only be able to get to WP 7.8 due to the CE to NT kernel change
(but even that will hopefully give us the full Skype integration that I want so much and a multitude of other features)

Windows Phone 7 and Android have different kernels and both run on the HD7 (or HD2, I don't remember)
This "kernel" talk is complete bull****. Just replace the kernel with one that supports legacy hardware and it's done. Windows RT runs on ARM and our WP7.5 phones are just that. The ones with WP8 too. The ONLY difference is the extra core.

What kind of kernel?
guilhermedsx said:
Just replace the kernel with one that supports legacy hardware and it's done. Windows RT runs on ARM and our WP7.5 phones are just that.
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I don't understand: What kernel supporting legacy hardware are you talking about here? Where will this come from, who will provide it?
I think we are right at the center of the problem here: Of course Microsoft could provide all kinds of device drivers for WP8 so that it could run on current WP7 phones, but decided against it - probably just too much costly work with almost no gain or even active opposition from manufacturers who want to sell new phones.

Yeah its got to be about getting the new devices sold, increase the market share. Besides, The gpu's and ram in our current phones won't be able to keep up with the new devices even when the new core with its native code stuff comes. Its like trying to run a new game on an old computer, it will load up fine but it'll run so slow it'd be unplayable. I believe that wp7.5 is pushing our current hardware to the limits
Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

Hard to say
goldenpipes said:
Its like trying to run a new game on an old computer, it will load up fine but it'll run so slow it'd be unplayable.
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Right, old computer, like the Lumia 900's that appear in the stores right now, born in factories at most a few weeks ago
goldenpipes said:
I believe that wp7.5 is pushing our current hardware to the limits
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That's really hard to say without anyone actually trying to run WP8 on a current WP7 phone; on the PC front, Windows 8 seems to be faster on the same hardware than Windows 7. And many times and in many apps the CPU inside your phone is boring itself to death anyway because it has so few things to do.

guilhermedsx said:
Windows Phone 7 and Android have different kernels and both run on the HD7 (or HD2, I don't remember)
This "kernel" talk is complete bull****. Just replace the kernel with one that supports legacy hardware and it's done. Windows RT runs on ARM and our WP7.5 phones are just that. The ones with WP8 too. The ONLY difference is the extra core.
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You're talking about this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1483377
HD2 was able to boot Android (linux kernel) just because of the support of HaRET. Nothing can be done on it own.
And do remember that "famous HTC devices that are capable of running HaRET are the QSD8250 based HTC HD2 and a wide range of MSM7xxA based phones like the diamond, raphael and touch pro 2". Right now only the HD2 is still alive and its QSD8250 will be outdated soon.
You're talking about replacement like it's so easy. Changing kernel means every vendor has to rewrite everything from scratch including drivers for their devices. WP8 is designed to run on this new kernel (not the old kernel) so it does not support current devices. That's fair i think.
That's what we call changing (unlike 'changing' on Android or iOS, changing every now and then but nothing's new). Just hope that MS wont change too often.
Anyway, it's just only an announcement. The exact date of releasing WP8 is unknown. Right now, we still holding a device that runs a good OS. And even when WP8 is released, my phone's still doing something 'pretty much WP8' with 7.8 update. And can do that until i can afford a WP8 device or when everyone is switching. But that the story of at least 1 year from now.

"Right, old computer, like the Lumia 900's that appear in the stores right now, born in factories at most a few weeks ago "
Maybe not old, but ****ty hardware for sure, that won't run on on the new Windows Phone 8 because its more hardware hungry.
If we could get Windows Phone 8 onto some of the newer android handsets, especially the HTC One X, it would be AWESOME!

Tom_H_ said:
"Right, old computer, like the Lumia 900's that appear in the stores right now, born in factories at most a few weeks ago "
Maybe not old, but ****ty hardware for sure, that won't run on on the new Windows Phone 8 because its more hardware hungry.
If we could get Windows Phone 8 onto some of the newer android handsets, especially the HTC One X, it would be AWESOME!
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That would be more realistic )

I think the main issue for MS is that kernel changes require flashing ROMS - high risk of bricking and WAY beyond the ability of most of their market. So why would they invest that level of development in a small niche market that potentially undermines their own market (look at the crossover between developers and hackers/crackers lol). You need to look at the commercial sense of their decisions not your own needs.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

complete faith although ?S
I have complete faith wp8 or an adjusted version of wp8 will be cooked to run on our gen2 devices, heck remember seeing froyo run on the tmobile g1?
And I think that will give our phones better resale value when we do decide to purchase a wp8 handset, i know that's my semi long term goal when I upgrate my handset.
but what I want to know is and i'm not sure if it was covered in the press announcements, say you continue using your gen2 device, will all new upcoming wp8 apps stop working altogether?
for instance what if instagram, pandora, words with friends (which i know is coming) although engineered and designed for wp8 because yes i know its being rewritten differently, will they not work at all on wp7.8?
that's my semi concern, since they were finally able to hspl my titan and once the wp8 sdk (is that what it's called?) gets dumped and chefs get their hands on it, will it only be a matter of time before it is ported to our handsets as well?
I think what msft should have made absolutely clear and i'm not sure if they covered it or if i missed something, if they said "continue using your 7.8 device all apps written in the future will be usable on these devices" if that's the case people shouldn't worry and simply wait for their 2 year carrier contracts to expire and finally upgrade.
the only thing that prevents me from keeping my titan for long term use is that i really really need expandable storage.

@pvt_nemesis: Every single OS or firmware update has the same risk of breaking ("bricking" is a little strong, since it's technically recoverable, but people seem to use the term less strictly these days) a phone as the full kernel flash that you're talking about. There's nothing magical about an OS kernel. The WP7 kernel has almost certainly been replaced at least once by an update already (I'm pretty sure Mango updated part of the kernel).
Cooking a custom ROM of WP8 for WP7 hardware will mostly depend on the availability of drivers, I think. Unlike the current custom ROMs, which take their drivers from current ROMs, the switch from CE to NT will make all the WP7 drivers useless for WP8 ROMs. Therefore, we'll need WP8 (NT-on-ARM) drivers for the hardware of out WP7 devices... and there's no guarantee that it'll be available. It might, though.

What is this 18 month Support Thing?

If you all remember from the Windows Phone Summit, it was mentioned that all devices launced will have (receive updates) for a period of 18 months.
What does this mean brothers? Does it mean every WP device released will be neglected and won't be able to upgrade to another major OS update just like today's 1st and 2nd gen devices after 18 months.
What if we get quad core, NFC and all these hardcore hardware goodies? Will a phone with all the wonderful specs still be neglected? I really don't see how if the Kernels and cores are not changed.
Typical example: Will the HTC One X and Samsung Galaxy III loose support for Android ONE DAY??? Even if the Android kernel and the cores still remain the same???
I'm really lost and need your opinions...any explanations?

Kenzibit said:
If you all remember from the Windows Phone Summit, it was mentioned that all devices launced will have (receive updates) for a period of 18 months.
What does this mean brothers? Does it mean every WP device released will be neglected and won't be able to upgrade to another major OS update just like today's 1st and 2nd gen devices after 18 months.
What if we get quad core, NFC and all these hardcore hardware goodies? Will a phone with all the wonderful specs still be neglected? I really don't see how if the Kernels and cores are not changed.
Typical example: Will the HTC One X and Samsung Galaxy III loose support for Android ONE DAY??? Even if the Android kernel and the cores still remain the same???
I'm really lost and need your opinions...any explanations?
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I hope it does lose support after 18 months as that leaves the room for new innovation every 18 months which is fantastic if you as an end user want value for money! 18 months in gadget years is a long time. I would rather prefer new screen res, new processors, new add-ons to the hardware that can be exploited using an updated OS. However, yes if the OS can do all these by not changing kernel etc, we might potentially still be able to update to newer OS, but would you not want those hardware features that evolve in 18 months? I would!

18 Months is too short...
Think of how the latest gen phones got a front facing camera, yet we won't see Skype integration unless we upgrade to WP8...
What features will the 2nd gen of WP8 phones get that won't be used until WP9?
18 months is wayyyy too short... 36 would be a more fair number!

Zhariak said:
18 Months is too short...
Think of how the latest gen phones got a front facing camera, yet we won't see Skype integration unless we upgrade to WP8...
What features will the 2nd gen of WP8 phones get that won't be used until WP9?
18 months is wayyyy too short... 36 would be a more fair number!
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For example, they could exploit the possibility of x86 instead of ARM?
or hexa-cores?
or kinect sensors?
Now imagine if we could run the new kernel and MSFT would give WP8 to us right now, but we had same hardware, we wouldn't be seeing those NFC goodies on our current phones or those games that exploit multicores!

Zhariak said:
18 Months is too short...
Think of how the latest gen phones got a front facing camera, yet we won't see Skype integration unless we upgrade to WP8...
What features will the 2nd gen of WP8 phones get that won't be used until WP9?
18 months is wayyyy too short... 36 would be a more fair number!
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That would be idiotic. 3 years?
And considering that Android manufacturers abandon you before you've even bought it, 18 months is perfectly fine.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium

18 months is fine its the length of your contracts eligibility so essentially your phone will be supported until the next wave comes out.

18 months is perfect, means you can enjoy your latest update for a half year before your contract expires and you can renew it icm with a new phone.

Come to think of this, then someone like me need not buy a flagship phone. When WP8 comes out, they'll be low end, mid range and high end phones, since I don't play a lot of games on my phone and just use my social, forum and productivity apps, I really don't need to buy a WP GS3 or One X like WP which will no be supported in 18 months time. Both high end and low end WP 8 devices will not be supported in 18 months time then I better buy a cheap WP8 device when it comes out. Or am I wrong?
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express

And also are they giving us 18 months support based on the expirations of contracts? If so then they are not being fair to some of us who buy phones off contract. You really need to use your phone like forever if you buy one coz they are damn expensive.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express

Kenzibit said:
And also are they giving us 18 months support based on the expirations of contracts? If so then they are not being fair to some of us who buy phones off contract. You really need to use your phone like forever if you buy one coz they are damn expensive.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
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Why is this such a complicated concept?
It's 18 months from when the phone is released.
If you buy a year old phone, then that would be your problem.
Sent from my SGH-I777

Personally, I think it should be at least 24 months, in the US we all end up with 2 year contracts. Now if you buy the phone 3-4 months after it's release, who's fault is that ? Yours not Microsoft.
Now here's another good question that should effect US users. Does this 18 months start when the phone is released by the Carriers or the OEM ? Phones released in the US tend to get an overseas release before the US, sometimes as much as 6 months (GSM or CDMA).
How about the case of the Verizon Trophy or the Sprint Arrive, for example. The GSM Trophy was released about 8-9 months BEFORE the CDMA releases of the Arrive or the (few weeks later) Trophy. Yea, people say they are different phones but, MS could say, no a Trophy is a Trophy. Are you saying when I buy a CDMA phone (better coverage in the US now) my upgrades from Microsoft could only be 6-7 months on a just released phone, that I just signed a new 2 year contract on (sorry Lumia 900 owners) ?????????????????
All I know, when the WP8 devices start shipping, I will watch for the most popular one on here, and buy that one, because the XDA hackers will give me WP9, even if Microsoft does not

All its saying is Microsoft has to support them for AT LEAST 18 months. It doesn't mean they're necessarily going to abandon every 18 month old phone. All the contract says is that they are obliged to support us for 18 months. Who knows? We might even get windows phone 9 on or wp8 devices if they are compatible!

Knowing how Microsoft updates Windows and the XBOX, I would bet that you would get EVERY update including the major release, Unless your over 18 months after release (after 18months you will get all minor releases but, no more major updates).
As in the xbox, if your system requres a update, you can not access xbox live till you update. I'm sure MS would want everything standardized and on the same level if possable.

The question is what happens after the 18 moths are up? Will they stop releasing apps for it? Will they shut the market place down for Windows Phone 7.8 users like they did with Windows Mobile forcing everyone to go to Windows Phone 8?

sinister1 said:
The question is what happens after the 18 moths are up? Will they stop releasing apps for it? Will they shut the market place down for Windows Phone 7.8 users like they did with Windows Mobile forcing everyone to go to Windows Phone 8?
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Nothing happens after 18 months.
Sent from my SGH-I777

sinister1 said:
The question is what happens after the 18 moths are up? Will they stop releasing apps for it? Will they shut the market place down for Windows Phone 7.8 users like they did with Windows Mobile forcing everyone to go to Windows Phone 8?
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Nothing really...
They stop supporting your device(as for updates). I know that just because WP9 hits, your apps are not going to stop working or anything like that. It just means just like now, your going to get a minor update for Wp 7.5, and they will move on to WP8, all current apps will work fine and most of WP8 apps would work too (some games and big production apps could be an acception.)
As someone posted on another thread, a programmer today creating an app for WP8 would want to make it backwards compatable to 7.5/8 to reach the most people possable and reach higher sales amounts. If you just make a WP8 only app, you limit the people who can access your app. Just makes business cense...
Some apps will need the WP8 features and those you will not be able to run (high impact games will be the acception for the most part).

DavidinCT said:
As someone posted on another thread, a programmer today creating an app for WP8 would want to make it backwards compatable to 7.5/8 to reach the most people possable and reach higher sales amounts. If you just make a WP8 only app, you limit the people who can access your app. Just makes business cense...
Some apps will need the WP8 features and those you will not be able to run (high impact games will be the acception for the most part).
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But if it is a port from Android, iOS or even a Windows 8 Metro App, it is way easier to port to WP8 than to WP7, and if WP8 sales are good, it might not be profitable to support the small marketshare that WP7 holds.
However, as of today your statement is of course true because there is not even a WP8 SDK.

slimshady322 said:
But if it is a port from Android, iOS or even a Windows 8 Metro App, it is way easier to port to WP8 than to WP7, and if WP8 sales are good, it might not be profitable to support the small marketshare that WP7 holds.
However, as of today your statement is of course true because there is not even a WP8 SDK.
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Any new OS version WON'T have a bigger marketshare than that times ongoing OS.
e.g.
WP7.5 will have more than WP7.8 at its launch
WP7.8 will have more than WP8 at its launch
WP8 will have more than WP9 at its launch
etc.
So... even if WP8 sales are good since day 1, it will take at least 6-8 months to overtake that time's WP7.x userbase.
In the least effect, a W8 developer who ONLY ports to WP8 is losing potential 12 million customers - simple maths.