Tegra 3+? - Microsoft Surface

So what do we know about this processor guys? I've been digging around my Surface and found a few things:
Our Tegra 3 has 4MB of L2 cache as opposed to the usual 1MB.
Our Tegra 3 has no fifth companion core.
Our Tegra 3 has a GPU potentially based off of a newer mobile architecture.
Surface is utilizing 1500Mhz DDR3-L (the fastest supported according the limited NVidia information).
My sources are NVidia site, and my own surface. Web url and screen captures attached.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-3-processor.html
If this is old news, I apologize. I haven't been able to find much of anything regarding the nitty gritty of the Surface internals but I found this all very interesting.

What is your Windows rating?
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There is no windows rating (that I'm aware of) in windows 8 rt.
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Related

[Q] crazy idea about porting halo

ive just realised something. halo ce's minimum requirements are 800mhz processor and geforce 2 gtx and 256mb of ram. a lot of phones have more processing power than that (im mainly thinking about tegra 2 phones like the atrix)
So aside from the direct x issue would it be possible to port halo ce onto android?
thre3aces said:
ive just realised something. halo ce's minimum requirements are 800mhz processor and geforce 2 gtx and 256mb of ram. a lot of phones have more processing power than that (im mainly thinking about tegra 2 phones like the atrix)
So aside from the direct x issue would it be possible to port halo ce onto android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...
thre3aces said:
...aside from the direct x issue...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is kind of a big issue, but maybe. It would have to run as a native application, and it would need to be ported to run on openglES, It would also involve a lot of refactoring to make a java-based interface to the game.
Possible... maybe with the source code, and some talented devs.
Not likely to be coming soon, and then there is the whole IP issue on top of the difficulty of the porting... I know I value my sanity too much to work on such a project.
Not likely. You may think that our current processors are more powerful, but that's not necessarily true. Watt for watt they are, but those non mobile x86 processors run many more instructions than these mobile chips. Also porting a game in x86 to ARM is a massive undertaking, not really worth it.
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ive recently started a thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1195712
wouldnt this help if the interface is java-based?
Yay I have a atrix
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This is relevant to my interests. I was wondering why a Diablo 2 style game couldn't be tried. I know my phone far overpowers my old pc. Lol
There are two main technological hurdles to overcomes when porting games from consoles/PC to a mobile platform are:
1. CPU Performance
Just because a ARM CPU has a higher clock-rate than a non-low-power CPU doesn't mean that it is more powerful. ARM is a RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing) CPU which means that it is ideal for low-power limited memory devices. However some operations that could be completed in one clock-cycle on an X86 CPU may take two or more clock-cycles an ARM CPU.
Even when comparing ARM CPUs to RISC PPC CPUs included in game consoles, the PPC CPUs tend to implement optimisations that aren't available in mobile ARM CPUs.
2. Graphics
As previously mentioned the main problem is that console and PC games are all developed with OpenGL (or possibly DirectX) not OpenGL ES. Whilst OpenGL ES 2.0 does have support for programmable shaders it's still very limiting compared to what can be achieved with OpenGL (even old versions).
Other Issues
There are also other issues due to the limited (or different) input mechanisms available to mobile device. The smaller physically sized screens are also potentially a issue even if resolutions are similar.
yea ive taken that into account and i know that arm CPUs are slower than an intel/amd counterpart despite higher clock speed. but surely a 1ghz dual core arm cortex a8 is faster than a 800mhz intel cpu.
the open gl thing was something i completely forgot about and know that you mention it i think the whole idea may not be possible. BUT i found this on wiki "PowerVR's Series5 SGX series features pixel, vertex, and geometry shader hardware, supporting OpenGL 2.0 and DirectX 10.1 Shader Model 4.1".
maybe it is still possible.
the screen size is another big issue. but maybe it will be ok on a tablet like the zoom.
We need to start looking into this again
Qualcomm will be releasing the snapdragon 810 soon it supports direct X, is x64, and has 2.7+ghz I think porting pc games is becoming much more of a reality and I would love for someone to give me a reason ditch my pc for gaming
I'd hate to re revive but since android practically is Linux, couldn't we focus on wine for android? That would not only allow people to install direct x in the first place on android phones and tabs but also open up many many possibilities such as a PC version of steam for android. A fun way of this could be taking advantage of Samsung's multi window support. But yes there is no halo for android before wine. Once wine is existant there will be PC on android. And Gabe's 3 will be comfirmed.
I have DREAMED of Halo in my pocket, and this is why I started developing. I thought I could put in the hours to at least get it off to a good start and get people involved. Here are the main issues, and the reasons that I (and I bet any others who have tried) eventually gave up.
It's been pointed out the difference in processing and graphics. X86 processors just run many more instructions than mobile processors. Mobile processors are catching up, and have been more powerful for a long time, but even if one runs a comparitively adequate number of instructions it still communicates differently with graphics processors and ram etc. This alone is intimidating because means that the entire game would have to be redone from scratch and the assets either stolen (yikes) or a partnership arranged with Microsoft.
Enter Microsoft. I love ole Mikey Soft I do, but they are defensive about their Halo. They recently made it almost impossible to install a fan project rework of Halo 1 CE. Any attempts to port to Android would be met with similar treatment. *Cough* they don't trust fans, but they gave Master Chief to 343, killed Cortana, and then made her evil.* That was a long cough. In their defense they have probably not pursued this because of the last point here: porr end product = poor user experience.
So processor, graphics, Mike, and finally porting itself. Borderlands 2 was recently ported onto an arm (mobile) processor. I bought a PS Vita+BL2 bundle specifically to see if I could learn anything about porting other pc games, like Halo. If you've played it you know that it is AWESOME, but has a great deal of glitches, frame rate drops, and even later loading textures than the PC/console version. To be fair I'm SHOCKED that BL2 and all its dlc run as well as it does on Vita. Bravo yo!
My conclusion was that it would have to be completely remade which would require using assets from a zealously guarded IP, and if a partnership was struck the final product would likely be extremely hard to optimize leaving all of us nostalgic fans with dissapointment as we are trying to launch each other to the top of blood gulch but run into such low fps that we can't coordinate the required wart hoggery. This is also why there are several Halo-ish games on Android. It's tough to Port, but much easier to imitate. Sad pandasaurus.
sorry to revive an older thread but heres an apk. i found however its in Spanish if someone can change the language it would be great.

Samsung rolling out JB for most smartphones

I got my hopes up for nothing as the Charge did not make the list
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/24/samsung-rolling-jelly-bean-toward-most-of-its-smartphone-tablet/
It has already been said that jb and touchwiz would never fit on our system partition.
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I think the bigger issue here besides getting 4.1 is... the mobile market needs to follow the model of the PC for the enduser.
I would be willing to pay some money to upgrade to the next major OS updates for my devices. Whether its my tablets or my phone. I wouldn't mind if I could only get vanilla android either.
It would put the power in the consumers hands. For example, I bought a laptop with windows vista and later upgraded it to windows 7 since my laptop could run it well. I hope someday android is able to do this as well. And sooner rather than later.
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bubarub said:
I think the bigger issue here besides getting 4.1 is... the mobile market needs to follow the model of the PC for the enduser.
I would be willing to pay some money to upgrade to the next major OS updates for my devices. Whether its my tablets or my phone. I wouldn't mind if I could only get vanilla android either.
It would put the power in the consumers hands. For example, I bought a laptop with windows vista and later upgraded it to windows 7 since my laptop could run it well. I hope someday android is able to do this as well. And sooner rather than later.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that upgrading a phone will never be as straightforward as upgrading a PC. There's no one "Android Operating System" that exists as a general purpose OS. AOSP is the base, but even Google does more work to it before it goes on a Nexus device. Every phone has different hardware, which requires different drivers, and often, different close-source software and libraries, which means that every version of Android is a different embedded OS that is based on core Android. Making it generalized enough to run across the board on all hardware on the market would bloat it. It would make it memory, CPU, and power inefficient. We like to think of our phones as powerful miniature computers, but in reality, they don't even match the processor and memory capabilities of the average netbook. It's only through careful optimizations that it is able to run the way it runs, and you can't just slap a generic version of Android on a device and expect the same results.
Its not impossible...
And isn't every computer different from one another just like a phone or tablets?!
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bubarub said:
Its not impossible...
And isn't every computer different from one another just like a phone or tablets?!
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Shrike said - the phones are too small and don't have the capacity that computers do for memory, disk and processor. Even if they did, the power draw would be excessive. Everything is extremely customized to fit within the phone's tiny footprint.
BTW - every computer has it's own limits with respect to memory and cpu capacity. Yes, you can upgrade, but there is a point of diminishing returns. What's the point of installing the fastest processor if the bus can't handle it? It goes on and on.
Lastly, it will never be in their best interests (profits, new sales) to adopt the computer model. They don't like that you keep a computer for years. They want churn. They want planned obsolescence.
bubarub said:
Its not impossible...
And isn't every computer different from one another just like a phone or tablets?!
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossible? No. Highly impractical? Yes
A computer has enough memory, storage, and processor power that the larger footprint of the "everything and the kitchen sink" model doesn't bog it down the way it would a phone. Just look at storage space alone...when you don't know exactly what hardware you're going to encounter, you have to account for all possibilities. Just the extra storage is going to add tangibly to the cost. Then you have the extra power drain required for the more efficient processors that will be needed to run the more generic OS correctly, and the extra RAM needed to load all of it's parts. A smartphone is a modern example of the classic embedded system. When you have limited resources to work with, your OS has to be more focused, customized, and efficient to work in an acceptable way.
So, yes, it's possible in the broadest sense, but do you want to pay $1500+ for the device that can be upgraded at will and be out of date within 2 years? Or would you rather pay $100-$500 every two years for the latest hardware and OS, at the expense of a more limited upgrade path? Personally, I know where I'll put my money.
Haha good point on that last paragraph! I agree.
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Specs
It doesn't take much to look at the default off the shelf Dell box's specs and compare them to that of any phone. The Intel Core i7 or AMD FX-8150 processors would smoke any ARM on the market for mobiles. Memory in the desktop is 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz. Again crushing the Droid Charge and every other phone. 1TB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive, nuff said man won't be there for mobile for a while now. The power consumption would drain your mobiles battery in the time it takes to boot up. Let us also not forget that GHz and GB and TB don't all perform the same across the board. For instance a 1TB parallel ATA drive, 1TB SATA, and 1TB SSD differ vastly in performance. The NVIDIA Tegra 3 Quad core, 1.2 GHz, ARM Cortex-A9 processor in the Nexus 7 just doesn't hold a candle to the Intel Core i7-640UM Dual Core 1.2 GHz. It's about more than cores and clock speeds.
MikeAGriffey said:
It doesn't take much to look at the default off the shelf Dell box's specs and compare them to that of any phone. The Intel Core i7 or AMD FX-8150 processors would smoke any ARM on the market for mobiles. Memory in the desktop is 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz. Again crushing the Droid Charge and every other phone. 1TB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive, nuff said man won't be there for mobile for a while now. The power consumption would drain your mobiles battery in the time it takes to boot up. Let us also not forget that GHz and GB and TB don't all perform the same across the board. For instance a 1TB parallel ATA drive, 1TB SATA, and 1TB SSD differ vastly in performance. The NVIDIA Tegra 3 Quad core, 1.2 GHz, ARM Cortex-A9 processor in the Nexus 7 just doesn't hold a candle to the Intel Core i7-640UM Dual Core 1.2 GHz. It's about more than cores and clock speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could take the time to pick apart your post and make fun of you, but there isn't any point.
Kind of like your post.
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Time to just give up on JB or ICS for charge. I just upgraded to galaxy nexus. I love it and highly recommend it. Cheers!
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Compare Mobile Processors to PC Processors?

I know we all think our processors in our newer phones are awesome but is there any chart, etc to show where our processors would stack up in real world use vs a processor used in a laptop, PC, etc.
I've always been curious as our SoCs improve.
I've heard that even some of our newest processors we like, Tegra 3, etc, are still at the best, only as good in real world use as an older Pentium 4.
So is there any kind of side to side benchmark showing how things look from a viewpoint of how our phones/tablets compare to PCs/laptops?
My guess would be no, because our mobile phones are based on the ARM architecture and PCs are x86... I believe? I could be wrong, my knowledge of technology is limited outside of phones
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Has there been any ouya vs sheild talk?

I think the hard part is getting non PC people to have a PC, with a 650 or better nvidia GPU. And then you have PC people that just need an upgraded GPU. And is nvidia gonna do first party break the ice with a bunch of mini game or small and quick MMO or plan on setting up a special something for shield owners? And then you have people who don't really want the portability all that much and will likely buy the poor man's gaming console, the ouya, which should refressh it's hardware every year or two. And isn't nvudia inside the ouya to start off with? Nvidia could get something jumpstarted where the ouya would work in this equation somehow or be a host server for man, or all out line if the right components are there and up to the task.
my gnote2 is bigger than your puny iPhone.
I'm still not too sure about either, to be honest. My Asus Infinity with a Tegra 3, and a PS3 controller with the Sixaxis app, currently handles all of my Android gaming. The Tegra 4 will be in Android tablets soon, though I think the first tablet getting the Tegra 4 will be running Windows 8. I'm just not too sure, YET, if Project Glass will be worth the extra money...
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The ouya has a tegra 3 at 1.3ghz. The Shield has a 1.9ghz tegra 4. Significantly more power.
The shield running stock android means it doesnt need to stream from a desktop PC. With the OUYA also being android based I reckon it would be a fairly easy port to get an OUYA game running on the shield, either with a port of the game code to the shield or possibly a modded OUYA SDK. Dependant on how much source code is available for the Shield roms and OUYA roms it might be possible to run an ouya rom on the shield.
Windows 8 wont run on a tegra 4. Namely because windows 8 is x86 only and tegra 4 is ARM.
Windows RT might but there have been no new windows RT devices announced so none with a tegra 4.
Only tegra 4 devices I know of right now are the shield, the HP splitbook x2 and the NVidia demo phone and demo tablets sold to manufacturers to sample what the tegra 4 and 4i can do.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
The ouya has a tegra 3 at 1.3ghz. The Shield has a 1.9ghz tegra 4. Significantly more power.
The shield running stock android means it doesnt need to stream from a desktop PC. With the OUYA also being android based I reckon it would be a fairly easy port to get an OUYA game running on the shield, either with a port of the game code to the shield or possibly a modded OUYA SDK. Dependant on how much source code is available for the Shield roms and OUYA roms it might be possible to run an ouya rom on the shield.
Windows 8 wont run on a tegra 4. Namely because windows 8 is x86 only and tegra 4 is ARM.
Windows RT might but there have been no new windows RT devices announced so none with a tegra 4.
Only tegra 4 devices I know of right now are the shield, the HP splitbook x2 and the NVidia demo phone and demo tablets sold to manufacturers to sample what the tegra 4 and 4i can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OUYA actually has a 1.9GHZ tegra 3 T33 processor (supposedly better than the T30L which is what youll find in devices like the Nexus 7, HTC one and Asus pads) The OUYA development tool (referred to by the developers as the ODK) is easily obtainable from their website. When you download it and install it (it's an apk) it boots you into the OUYA interface, acting like a launcher controlling it with my nexus 7's touch screen was clumsy and un productive and I didnt have access to the app store but I believe it would be quite easy to gain access. I also installed the play station mobile app on my nexus 7 but since it is not an officially licenced device with access to it it locked me out. This was fixed by flashing a package from custom recovery. No doubt the same applies to the ouya market.
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Tetra 3 uses a cortex A9. Tetra 4 uses A15 which is about 50% faster at the same clock speed. So even with the ouya being 1.9ghz it still has less CPU power than the shield. Has a weaker GPU too.
Only points the ouya wins on are cost and dedicated developer support. There are probably more people hoping to make ouya specific apps than there are shield specific apps, a relatively minor point seeming as those apps should play nicely on either device anyway.
Ultimately you could still hook a shield up to a tv and pair a Bluetooth gamepad with it (maybe even an ouya one when they get around to selling them on their own) if you want a living room console, then unplug cable and go if you need a portable device. It just comes at a cost.
Wasn't contradicting your statement was merely correcting some misleading information.
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There is a lot of hope from both camps (Ouya and NVIDIA) that these "controller-based" products will really push for developers to support landscape-only devices and dedicated controller support. While Shield has the advantage of a touch screen available, both devices are really driving toward controller-only development.
I could see myself getting one of these. Not at launch but after a couple critical mass games and the one that gets more quality support for console like gaming. The ouya is potentially a GameCube successor and the shield has a lot of potential but are people really going to put their smart phones and tablets down for a dedicated but still portable console.
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@rbiter said:
I could see myself getting one of these. Not at launch but after a couple critical mass games and the one that gets more quality support for console like gaming. The ouya is potentially a GameCube successor and the shield has a lot of potential but are people really going to put their smart phones and tablets down for a dedicated but still portable console.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I was previously interested in the OUYA for some hard core android gaming on a tv, I've kind of lost interest due to the fact that its model was meant to attract developers looking to make a name for themselves meaning small scale AA games. While there's nothing wrong with producing opportunity for new developers, it does mean that a good portion of the content will not be worth your time atleast in its early stages. The Nvidia Shield not only has the power to handle anythjng the market can pushout for atleast the next two years, the OUYA is packing hardware which is already outdated.
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Jsusgarcia179 said:
While I was previously interested in the OUYA for some hard core android gaming on a tv, I've kind of lost interest due to the fact that its model was meant to attract developers looking to make a name for themselves meaning small scale AA games. While there's nothing wrong with producing opportunity for new developers, it does mean that a good portion of the content will not be worth your time atleast in its early stages. The Nvidia Shield not only has the power to handle anythjng the market can pushout for atleast the next two years, the OUYA is packing hardware which is already outdated.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ouya is supposedly getting new hardware every year. How they plan on doing that I don't know. It would be very nerdy and cool to unplug and drop a new SOC instead of buying the while console each time. And ouya seems to be off to a shaky start already with the controller and lag issues.
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@rbiter said:
The ouya is supposedly getting new hardware every year. How they plan on doing that I don't know. It would be very nerdy and cool to unplug and drop a new SOC instead of buying the while console each time. And ouya seems to be off to a shaky start already with the controller and lag issues.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I think they meant by that is that a new ouya with updated hardware will be released every year.
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Thanks to the easily exchangeable hardware of the ouya, I believe that we will see upgrade possibilities.
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Jsusgarcia179 said:
What I think they meant by that is that a new ouya with updated hardware will be released every year.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that is the way it will be, but if they designed it the right way it would be cool to just drop a new soc in and only have to buy a new ouya every 3 years or so. Upgrading just the hardware inside for $50 or so would be really cool on the wallet also.
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slainbybeats said:
Thanks to the easily exchangeable hardware of the ouya, I believe that we will see upgrade possibilities.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what are you on about?
The ouya only breaks down into 4 components. Case, lid, motherboard and fan. Nothing is removable from the motherboard and its hardly worth keeping the case between upgrades (besides, case has negligible financial impact). Only way you can upgrade the ouya is swap the entire motherboard in one go, or basically just buying a new ouya.
Swappable SoC's won't work as ARM chips don't maintain a standard pin out. To swap from a tegra 3 to a tegra 4 even requires a new motherboard. Workaround is to use a computer-on-module but that would not be effective for the ouya. Drivers for different SoCs are all different too. There is no feasible way to switch between SoCs in the ouya.
Just expect new hardware revisions every year or 2 instead.
Until then. Ouya VS shield. Ouya only really wins out for cost and size, and its not as if the shield is big. Ouya apps can probably eventually be coerced into running on the shield and ouya controllers would also work with the shield. Shield is more powerful, more portable. Only thing the ouya has and shield doesn't is the touchpad on the controller (exposes itself as a Bluetooth mouse so there is one workaround, or pair an ouya controller with the shield, or emulate it on the shield touch screen).
I believe the upgrade path for an Ouya would be to keep your old controllers, and just get the base unit.
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I love the idea of Ouya, but with the Xbox One and PS4 coming out in the fall I don't see a need for it.
The shield wins for me because I love the idea that I can play my PC games anywhere in the house or even the backyard. I love the idea of being able to use it like any other Android device. I love the portability and the power that the shield offers and I love that I can actually plug the shield into any TV im play those games right to it. If I wasn't such a big Xbox gamer and just wanted something cheap to play then I would consider the Ouya, but that's not the case and I have been looking for something that's portable with counsel quality gaming for a while now and the PC streaming is just a huge bonus for me.
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The shield does seem to have a more serious gamer allure but at a higher cost. The ouya would get the all around enthusiast gamer and would be much better suited for family or friend fun. Though I don't see why the shield couldn't support multiplayer from one shield output to a TV. I am not a serious gamer anymore but the Xbox one probably won't ever be in my living room if they really do undermine the second hand market like that. Probably the same for the ps4 if they decide to go ahead and do it. Still very interested in getting a ps4 in a couple of years when ps3 starts to show it's age in blue ray movies. The ouya might pique my interest in the meantime if they have some meaningful games.
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stanglifemike said:
I'm still not too sure about either, to be honest. My Asus Infinity with a Tegra 3, and a PS3 controller with the Sixaxis app, currently handles all of my Android gaming. The Tegra 4 will be in Android tablets soon, though I think the first tablet getting the Tegra 4 will be running Windows 8. I'm just not too sure, YET, if Project Glass will be worth the extra money...
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like tablet (singular)

Tegra 4 vs Snapdragon 800 vs Baytrail vs A7X - One SoC to rule them all

These are exciting times, gentlemen. Never before has the mobile SoC world been so competitive. All four of these SoCs are expected to be released in tablets by the end of this fall, or at least by the holidays (with exclusion of the Tegra 4, which already made its debut). My main question is, which SoC are you betting on and why?
My bet is on Baytrail, since their new OoO processing and quad-core setup pretty much quadroupled performance from Clovertrail. Plus, if the GPU is anywhere near the HD 4000, it will crush anything that ARM has to offer.
Here's hoping that Baytrail comes to Android. :good:
Watch #idf2013 closely, you will be happy
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