Related
I think being a Open Source Code and Openness in Architecture, API Google Should Ship Different Firmware for Developers, Software Builders, Codec Programmer etc.
Better for Google / T-Mobile / HTC
They can restrict Developer Device to get Back Normal Shipped Firmware.
Developer Device Activation Method can be Introduced so Once you Activate that IMEI for Developer Edition you could get only Limited Warranty from HTC for that IMEI.
Once you load Different Firmware, company may not allow you to Flash Normal Shipped / OTA Firmware signed by Different Signature.
Developer Edition of Firmware can have Test Key or Developer Key based Recovery Partition. But can not Erased the way we did it before.
Developer firmware must be only available via SDCard Method
No OTA should be given except for some killbits Urgency.
Their should be Disclaimer and Agreement for Warranty Issue
Better for Developers
Rather then Fighting for root this could be Straight Access to Device
No More Hacking and Exploits needed.
Building Firmware, API, Services, Codes which need Root Access can be Tested with Device rather then Emulator.
Customizing OS and using it for Self and Distributing it to user who can take risk may get easy Access to Mods.
Google Should Protect Recovery Image and Boot Image from being Flashed this will reduce Bricking Issue.
Please report your Comments here
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4
This won't happen. They will plainly tell you to build your own version and thats logical too. G1's version of Android is T-Mobile's, they paid for it, so it has everything that T-Mobile wants, and its for the average user who doesnt care about root etc. If you want a developer version, you can always compile it with default root access n stuff, thats the beauty of Open source.
Building Customized Firmware that's what i am saying unless you don't have root access you can not Build and Flash Customized Image. and in RC30 Release they have removed root access and telnetd.
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.
hetaldp said:
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.
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Click to collapse
I would not say that the stopped or closed all doors for customizing. Yes they took aways root but it does not mean we wont find a new door. With hacking any device its all about finding the newer better way to get in.
If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now
Rather then sitting idle and wishing for Google to rethink and give us root access gradually is not enough we should sign the link above and suggest them for that requirement.
benmyers2941 said:
If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
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Click to collapse
Five or six years seems terribly long. I know they did a lot of work on the dalvik VM but still.. I wouldn't be surprised if they had lost of lot of time in legalese and negotiation with hw maker and providers. I work in telco, although not the mobile industry and you can barely imagine the bully tactic employed by the big names to keep challengers out.. Ya don't wanna lose yar winmo 6 preferred pricing ar righ'?
Anyway, if it's true I'm even more surprised at some of the current shortcoming of the platform. Internationalization and lack of support for bluetooth comes to mind first.
But anyway, it's a young platform in terms of "days in the wild" and it's already quite good. What I'm a little bit afraid of is that T-Mo might not keep the update coming to bring new features to the phone in order to get people to upgrade their handset. We'll see.
As for developer build, Google has said that they would release Android so you could build your own device not that every device would be open.
I believe your demand should have been addressed to T-Mobile, not to Google nor HTC. Having an open device would be a tremendous benefit for Google as it would attract more qualified hobbyist developers to the Android platform. HTC probably doesn't really care either way, they're in the business of selling hardware, once you bought it they won't see any of the additional revenue stream, so if they can move ten thousand more unit because some people would like to use them as development device, I'm pretty sure they'd be for it. Assuming they don't have to support the cost of technical support for those "customized" devices.
RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
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Click to collapse
Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.
neoobs said:
Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe... That is most peoples understanding aswell.
Android is NOT Google's property (at least that I know of). Android has been in development for 5-6 years WITHOUT Google.
Android did not get the time of day UNTILL Google joined.
Then it wasn't being developed... it was staleware that google dusted off... I understand it isn't google's software but honestly you can't build something without knowing what devices it will be on. If built 6 years ago... it would have been built for devices from 6 years ago using resistive screens, proprietary connections, and most likely an onscreen keyboard. Mobile devices have changed a lot in 5 years and that would mean android was rebuilt from the ground up, if it was made 5 years ago. I think there may have been development and ideas 5 years ago but nothing even close to a working model(alpha software)
Being based on Linux, it is already extremely flexible with regards to hardware requirements. The only real requirement I am aware of is an ARM processor > 200 mhz...
Google bought Android in August of 2005, at that point in time, the company had existed for 22 months. So definitely some design elements of the OS have existed that long.
Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?
neoobs said:
Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what I am saying. Android is specifically designed to abstract all of those things. Want to add a new method for input? Fine, make a kernel module for it... Want to add a new interface port? Fine, make a kernel module for it. The modules are provided by either the device manufacturer (depending on how they've licensed the particular technology) or by the chipset manufacturer... This is no different than how the same distribution of Linux can run on x86, ARM, PPC, & Itanium with hundreds of different chipsets, network cards, etc.
From the very beginning Google has been saying that Android will run on a wide variety of phone hardware, even going so far as saying it could run on flip phones.
Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.
neoobs said:
Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.
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Click to collapse
Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.
Google made Dalvik, and a couple of the applications, the members of the Open Handset Alliance provided the kernel level modules.
I found an article from earlier this summer that briefly goes over the timeline and what Google had in mind with this whole thing: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/16-07/ff_android?currentPage=all
quedijo said:
Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XP was built on the NT kernel along with Vista and everything else made since 2000. Although that kernel is not the same at all anymore... sure it has all the same features but has been tweaked to all heck.
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?
neoobs said:
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://source.android.com/
The emulator doesn't have to be updated. It's just QEMU with a fancy GUI. Assuming they're keeping the repo over there up to date, you should be able to check out the latest version, build the images, fire it up in the emulator, and be on your way... and if you have a rooted G1, as long as you include the proprietary stuff from HTC (kernel modules that I'm sure they can't GPL), you should be able to boot it up... which, unless I am mistaken, is exactly what JesusFreke did in the first place.
Everybody Please make Comment on this Issue with Official G1 Suggestion Thread i opened
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4
Hetal
Taken via Rogers Redboard Blog http://redboard.rogers.com/2010/redboard’s-faaq-frequently-asked-android-questions/
Android, one of the newest – and hottest – mobile operating systems out there today is also one of the most-talked about topics here on RedBoard. One report predicts more than 50 Android-powered devices will launch this year — up from 10 in 2009.
We’re big fans of Android at Rogers. We were the first in Canada to carry an Android-powered device and have this country’s largest selection of Android devices such as the HTC Dream, HTC Magic, LG Eve, Samsung Galaxy Spica and Google’s Nexus One with even more Android devices on the way, including the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10.
We’re working hard to have real conversations about Android whenever possible – both online and in person – and thought it would be useful to answer some questions submitted by you, here on RedBoard.
1. Why should I care about Android?
Android is the operating system (OS) created by Google with which you can run programs on your smartphone. It is “open source” software, meaning that while Google has created it, other software developers – no matter their size – can modify the system or create add-on software programs that run on the OS called “apps.” The open-source aspect of the OS is driving many gadget-hungry consumers to Android-powered devices, causing handset makers such as Sony, HTC and LG to take notice and use the OS to power their products.
2. Why does it matter which version of Android I have?
The newer the version, the newer the features and functionality you can have. Just like how some software programs are written for Windows XP or Windows 7, newer Android-based apps – such as voice search or live wallpapers — are written for the newest Android OS, version 2.1. As the first to bring Android to Canada, we were also the first to learn just how much OS upgrades mean to our customers. This was a new challenge that we hadn’t dealt with before. As such, Rogers is working with handset manufactures to ensure an OS upgrade path on all all future devices.
3. Why does “rooting” an Android device void its warranty?
Rooting is when you wipe your handset clean of its existing operating system and install a new version. The problem with rooting is that handset manufacturers install and customize the OS to work specifically with their device so clearing it may make some features and functionality not work correctly. Furthermore, all handsets sold by Rogers are verified to work on our network before giving them to customers. In turn, it’s impossible for us to troubleshoot or provide technical assistance on a device that is no longer in line with that verification. That, in a nutshell, is why rooting voids the warranty of Rogers-purchased devices.
4. What sorts of things can I do with an Android phone — and what’s different from other smartphones?
Android phones aren’t for everybody. Some customers swear by their iPhone, BlackBerry or other smartphone. But here are some of the differences that will help you determine if Android is right for you:
The ease of personalization of Android phones – from colours to fonts to widgets.
The seamless integration with Google’s wide array of products such as Gmail, contacts, calendar, Picasa and maps. If you use your Gmail account on your computer to store important information, you’ll have the exact same access on the go.
Then, there are the apps. The open source community has embraced Android and as such, there are thousands of applications for download through the Android Market.
5. Are there places online that I can get tips for using Android to its fullest?
Not surprisingly, Google has a very thorough website dedicated to Android at http://www.android.com. There are also forums and blogs dedicated to Android, which you can find via an online search.
6. Does Rogers have any custom applications for my Android phone?
We recently launched the My Account app, which provides secure, 24/7 access to your Wireless accounts to view your balance, make payments as well as check airtime, messaging and data usage. It also lets you pay your bill right from your phone. Rogers SportsNet also has an app for getting the latest scores and sports news. While we can’t discuss plans right now for competitive reasons, we will be rolling out even more custom apps for Rogers customers in the near future.
7. How does Rogers define its commitment to the android community?
We understand that for Android users, the smartphone is more than just a device, it’s an extension of who they are. We’re listening to members of the Android community, and engaging with them (online and in person) to truly understand their wants and needs. That’s not limited to just users of the devices. We’re also working with software developers to ensure Rogers Android users have the best possible customer experience.
What kind of phone do you have? Would you consider an Android phone as your next device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does not seem like they have a clue what rooting is.
Szadzik said:
Does not seem like they have a clue what rooting is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? They have explained their point of view well and actually they're right. They can't be responsible for issues on rooted devices, because these issues may be caused by system customizations done by 3rd party. This is absolutely logical.
You can root your phone without actually changing the original OS. They're talking about not supporting various custom firmware, which is different from rooting.
Although with Rooting, you can make core changes that could effect functionality... But like any OS, I don't know if it really matters. I've cooked all of my Windows OS's on a range of devices and still always got warranty exchanges if needed. Just flash a stock firmware and call it a day.
player911 said:
You can root your phone without actually changing the original OS. They're talking about not supporting various custom firmware, which is different from rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but you don't root to not change anything, right? And they won't compare md5 of every file to see, whether you have changed somethin' or not. They don't give root to people just to be sure, that you have exactly what they have installed to you. If you have rooted, then they lose this sureness.
player911 said:
Although with Rooting, you can make core changes that could effect functionality... But like any OS, I don't know if it really matters. I've cooked all of my Windows OS's on a range of devices and still always got warranty exchanges if needed. Just flash a stock firmware and call it a day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think it would be nice if they would just erase all your data and install stock system. Then they would not waste too much of their time, but would be helpful.
Ahh and there is one more thing: when you flash roms, you risk hardware failure, especially if you aren't careful. It would not make any sense, if they would be responsible for such situation.
Rogers clearly does not have a clue what rooting is - what Rogers has described is installing a custom rom.
Rooting is not the same act as installing a custom rom - it's just giving yourself root access in the operating system.
Granted, that increases the amount of power the user has over the operating system - and honestly, I prefer that rooting be a little harder to do than just a one-click setup.
My reasoning behind that is simple - with great power, comes great responsibility.
Unfortunately, responsibility is a foreign concept to most consumers, especially when in over their heads trying to alter anything 'behind the scenes'.
That said, I can see why service providers would be disinclined to deal with the many problems that could arise due to root access.
Brut.all said:
Why? They have explained their point of view well and actually they're right. They can't be responsible for issues on rooted devices, because these issues may be caused by system customizations done by 3rd party. This is absolutely logical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As pointed out below Rogers explained using custom ROMs and not rooting. I have root and have not installed a custom ROM. I installed an overclocking app instead - does this mean my warranty has not been voided? According to Rogers it would not be.
This part made me laugh
Furthermore, all handsets sold by Rogers are verified to work on our network before giving them to customers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yes we've seen that with the whole E911 patch fiasco that ensued with the "verified" rom from Rogers.
Szadzik said:
As pointed out below Rogers explained using custom ROMs and not rooting. I have root and have not installed a custom ROM. I installed an overclocking app instead - does this mean my warranty has not been voided? According to Rogers it would not be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said:
Brut.all said:
And they won't compare md5 of every file to see, whether you have changed somethin' or not. They don't give root to people just to be sure, that you have exactly what they have installed to you. If you have rooted, then they lose this sureness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't have a gun without a license even if you don't use it, but just like to have it. No one will waste his time to check, what you actually do with this gun.
And this a reason, why such point of view *is some kind of standard* in software world. We support users of our software, but if you modified something in it, then we won't even look into your problem - go and fix it by yourself, have luck.
Even with custom rom, if flashing back the original rom can still prove that same feature still fails, the warranty is not considered void, it could be a hardware problem.
Some providers do not know what they are selling and what they are providing.
Nomal people use the mass on top to think and the gap on top to speak, but unfortunately, some chooses to use the mass at the "bottom" to "think" and the gap "below" to "talk".
*****WARNING*****
THIS IS AN OPINION THREAD. YOU MAY OR MAY NOT AGREE BUT THIS IS ALL OPINION!!!
*****WARNING*****
I usually get about 3 questions per day about my phone (Captivate) and why I picked it over an iphone. I'm a travelling warranty rep and so I'm on my phone a lot, and come across dozens of people a day with my line of business. This is usually one of the more frequet questions, and I decided I would just post this on my facebook as well.
I want feedback on this little short story I wrote about why I picked my Droid device over an iphone, and I figured this would be the best place to put it. I want feedback! Yes I am a little biased, but not without valid reason.
If you can actually point out a valid legitimate claim that I am at fault on, then please do so. That may be a little hard to do as this is just an opinion thread, and boy am I full of them. Flame or follow, go right ahead.
-----------------------------------------
Here's a quick comparison of apple vs Android software.
When Apple releases a new OS, whether a minor update or an upgrade, you have to wipe out all of your data (or rather, it does it for you). Of course, you can just sync your phone with itunes and then do a restore. Sure, it's easy enough.
The next thing is though, that when you do sync with itunes, you have to resync every single file and piece of music, each picture, etc, all over again, even after you've done it once. Considering all of those syncs I've done on others phones have taken well over 20 minutes to sync, for just a couple hundred songs and maybe 50 pictures, it's a pain when you want to go back and add ONE thing and have to do it all over again. Fun, huh?
There are other ways to go about adding individual files and such to iphones, but that involves jailbreaking and setting up custom networking interfaces with your phone, which typical iphone users wont know how to do.
Droid really has all that to begin with. Want to add a file? Just connect the phone to your PC via USB cable (I had 2 included with mine) and tell the phone to mount the storage, I did this by dragging down the menu bar and hitting one button that said "Select to copy files to/from your computer." That makes it show up in the PC as a standard flash drive or removable storage device. Add files accordingly, without having to spend 30 minutes syncing just to get one file. Drag, drop, and you're done.
Next, is jailbreaking. apple programs all of their OS's to fix exploits that have to be programmed in order to jailbreak their phones. If you have the newest version of apple software on your phone, chances are you'll be waiting for quite some time in order to be able to jailbreak. Then, IF the jailbreak is any good (and you don't brick -- or kill) your phone, you can generally unlock it (use it on a different carrier, which is usually the sole reason to jailbreak it) assuming they ALSO have a working unlock for it. You may be able to jailbreak it, but you wont always be able to unlock it.
There's a similar thing you can do for Droid phones, it's called rooting the phone. There's a very large difference though, in what is actually done. Jailbreaking an iphone basically requires new code to be injected into the software in order to bypass restrictions that apple specifically put in place to keep "malicious" software off of their devices. In other words, according to apple, jailbreaking is malware (something apple is supposed to be immune to also according to them). Jailbreaking is frowned upon by apple because it gives you power over your device to do things they don't want you to. Of course, you have to basically bust it out of jail (hence the term jailbreaking) in order to do so to free it from its bonds of restriction apple forces upon its devices. Rooting a Droid phone is nothing more than enabling administrator mode on your device. Its basically if you log onto your computer, you need administrator privledges to be able to do certain things... this is root. Root is a Linux term, basically meaning root controlls everything. No restrictions. Logon as administrator, and that is the same as root pretty much. No needing to jailbreak, no bonds needed to be freed, nothing. Jailbreaking = your friend is in jail, and you have to bust him out. Rooting = You're a CEO and you just took over the whole company. Root is God mode, jailbreaking is rescue mode. Got the difference? Good.
So what about Driods? When you flash a new OS (install an updated/upgraded operating system), does it erase everything? Well, in the past day I've flashed 3 different OS's including having gone back to the stock ROM that AT&T included with all their phones, rooted, unrooted, updated and reverted several times today and I have yet to lose any information. I haven't synced, backed up, done anything to preserve my data, and I've gone from 2.1 to 2.2 to 2.2.1 to 2.2 to 2.1 back over again and haven't lost a thing besides the call history and my text messages. And if I REALLY wanted to, I could have backed those up as well.
So what's all this about OS versions and everything? Well, if you're an iphone user, your OS version probably wont be anything more than a number and a couple of features, unless you jailbreak. Minor bugfixes and such, fixing exploits so people can't jailbreak as easily, and maybe adding a couple shiney new features and that's really about it. The flavor is, well, apple pie. The next version of the apple OS will still be apple pie, maybe with a little more cinammon. The next version will be apple pie, maybe with more apple. The next version will be apple pie and it may even include a worm, removed (or maybe even left in there) with the next batch. It'll always be apple. With Droid, there's not so much apple. I had an OS earlier today that was strawberry. My next was chocolate. After that was grape, then orange, then a giant chewy moist brownie with vanilla ice creamed drenched in chocolate syrup and whipped cream. With apple, all you get is pie. With Droid, you get eclairs, ice cream and more, and you get it how you like it. How about some Gingerbread now? There may even be pickled herring for those that want it later.
---------------------------------------------------------
Remember this was just an off the wall comparison, I didn't go as far in depth and be as technical as I'd like to have, but I did have to be a little redundant as most all of my iphone using friends need things explained to them several times before they understand. If I missed any points, feel free to share. Sorry if I hurt your feelings over anything (this was an opinion thread, remember?)
I would enjoy an orange flavored one myself.
I'm enjoying my froyo (frozen yogurt for those of you that don't know...and if you don't........) for now but when i get the chance I'll probably enjoy a bit of gingerbread .
The best of 3 worlds
I´m enjoying my Windows Mobile Leo with the chance to use Froyo/Gingerbread and soon WP7 as well
dbzfanatic said:
I'm enjoying my froyo (frozen yogurt for those of you that don't know...and if you don't........) for now but when i get the chance I'll probably enjoy a bit of gingerbread .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my little bit about ice cream at the later part though I probably should have said yogurt.
Sent from my I-897 with GT-I9000 kernel and froyo stuff with gingerbread kb and other nifty little tweaks using XDA App
orb3000 said:
I´m enjoying my Windows Mobile Leo with the chance to use Froyo/Gingerbread and soon WP7 as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am glad to see some windows users are doing that as well, I had a windows mobile phone and I completely juggled the idea of going to linux on my phone for quite some time until I just ended up deciding against it (back when I hadn't even flashed my first ROM) because I needed it strictly for work. Now I have some room to play around. My biggest concern was the lack of functionality on my device, which is always the kicker. WSince I still have the phone laying around and it's still completely functional, I may have to try it now
I recently bit the bullet and goldcarded 3.14 onto my Leo, partly as I was fed up waiting for O2 to release it, and partly to dabble with Android again (I'd done it on my Blackstone and found it meh).
I run SPB MS on the Leo which I find the best interface.
Now I can easily flip between the two, still prefer WM but then SPB MS5 isn't out for consumers yet (dammit pull your finger out!).
Prefer huff n puff to angry birds, but AB has more levels.
So if I fancy playing any games or using any apps that are only available on android I can now use them, but as for it replacing WM as my main OS, it's still too "clunky" for my liking.
Either way, at least both started the year with working alarm clocks, unlike iphones
Just wondering how much time people think it'll take before we get even a super unstable rom
From the looks of it, it took a month just to get TWRP on the original Pixel, so probably a while. Personally, I am straying away from ROMs. I only need root so that I can get viper4android and provisioning turned off. Other than that, don't really need anything else anymore.
I don't care too much for roms, however I'm interested in a Kernel that will allow me full control of the screen colors.
I feel that will come sooner than Google will officially provide more vibrant colors.
Fingers crossed for Turkey day, more realistic that Santa will bring em.
I dare say that we'll need factory images & driver binaries to make an appearance before the ball gets properly rolling.
I'm looking forward to Lineage OS. I hope the Pixel 2 gets official support. The Pixel 1 has never had an official version of Lineage OS.
I don't need a lot of new features and mods. But Lineage does strip out some of the privacy violating stuff in Android, other crud, and gets updated weekly, making it more secure.
Currently the Pixel 2 is still on the September 5 security patch from Google. So it has not been patched for the extremely bad Krack vulnerability in wifi (which affects all platforms). In fact, no version of Android, even on the original Pixels has been patched for Krack. But Lineage OS was patched within a day of the public announcement of Krack. This means my Nexus 4 running Lineage OS is more secure than the most up to date Pixel, even though Google stopped supporting the Nexus 4 years ago. That is just an embarrassment and Google should be humiliated, but really they don't care that much about security.
(If you don't know about Krack, it completely breaks WPA2 wifi connections--which is what everyone uses--and allows an attacker to easily decrypt all of your traffic.)
By the way, Windows was patched for Krack the week before it was publically announced. Linux was patched the day of the announcement. As I said, Lineage OS was patched the next day. Apple has been vague about when there will be updates to either MacOS or iOS and just leaked to some bloggers that they are coming--Apple is the worst on security on the desktop now (though they do a lot of PR to appear great) and not good on the iPhone. Google says they have a patch, but are not clear at all about when it will come (a computer journalist/developer I was emailing with recently said to me that Android security is so bad it should be considered criminal).
Anyway, so that's an argument for at least some ROMs, beyond a need for any special features and mods.
I'm with the previous posters. I don't NEED roms...but more development is always a good thing. Remember the days when just getting all your data from phone to phone required Root and titanium? Now all that's backed up in the cloud and restores over the cloud. I was a holdout of the grandfathered UDP and NEEDED root for tethering. But now I'm on the new unlimited and save money now that my teenager is on a smartphone. I'm saving $ on the plan... Never really worry about Data and I really haven't seen a difference.
Android has come so far that each update root has become more for fun instead of necessity.
Everybody needs to settle down with this Krack paranoia. There no hacker sitting outside your window hacking your wifi.
Chronzy said:
Everybody needs to settle down with this Krack paranoia. There no hacker sitting outside your window hacking your wifi.
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Say what?
Chronzy said:
Everybody needs to settle down with this Krack paranoia. There no hacker sitting outside your window hacking your wifi.
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Probably not at your home (although doing that used to be a hobby, called Wardriving, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardriving, so maybe with Krack it will become popular again).
But at work, in a cafe, public places with wifi, wifi sniffing is definitely known to happen.
Further, every time I've heard some say not to worry about some "paranoid" computer security issue, it has come to pass. I can't count anymore the number of computer security disasters that were so predictable, even though they sounded crazy, that I saw them coming years ahead and then they happened.
Basically, these days, we are losing the computer security game. Between extremely sophisticated state actors and almost as sophisticated criminals, huge amounts of resources are going into hacking people in every possible way. If you can think of a hack, it almost certainly is something that is happening or will happen. I've gotten it right so many times that way, when less sophisticated people thought I was crazy. I'm telling you, just imagine something that seems really bad with computer security, sit back, wait a couple years, and it will happen.
What's worse, with Krack, there are so many people running devices that don't get supported anymore that they will be vulnerable to Krack forever. Most routers never get updates either and people don't replace them, so they will be vulnerable for a long time too.
And the people who should be protecting us (Google, banks--Equifax, ahem) don't care, because for them fraud is just and operating expense.
My advice to people is don't do anything over wifi on your phone that you expect to be secure (like banking apps, etc.). Better safe than sorry. Really, I don't think people should ever use banking apps on their phones (or things like Android Pay)--I know people who work for banks developing these things and they really don't spend money on security people (there is also an extreme lack of enough talent in this area). I'll predict it right now. One of these days some banking app is going to get hacked and thousands if not millions of people are going to lose money out of their accounts. The banks will act shocked, pass the cost on to their customers, and know all along they couldn't be bothered to prevent it.
GohanBurner said:
From the looks of it, it took a month just to get TWRP on the original Pixel, so probably a while. Personally, I am straying away from ROMs. I only need root so that I can get viper4android and provisioning turned off. Other than that, don't really need anything else anymore.
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The original Pixel had a new dual boot and system partition structure (for seamless updates), which increased the time needed to get TWRP. With luck the Pixel 2 will have the same structure, so it won't require so much work to get TWRP.
I mainly need root so adaway can change the hosts file to get rid of ads. Maybe I'll just stick with stock recovery and use one of the vpn ad blockers.
foosion said:
The original Pixel had a new dual boot and system partition structure (for seamless updates), which increased the time needed to get TWRP. With luck the Pixel 2 will have the same structure, so it won't require so much work to get TWRP.
I mainly need root so adaway can change the hosts file to get rid of ads. Maybe I'll just stick with stock recovery and use one of the vpn ad blockers.
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I believe it is confirmed to have the same file system. There are indications that there are "slots"again just like the original Pixel.
All development is waiting on the release of the kernel source for the Pixel 2. I'd imagine it'll surface close to when the next OTA comes out with the October/November security patch. Seems like they aren't interested in releasing source and factory images for the current production build. I'd imagine within a week or two it'll happen.
ryanbg said:
All development is waiting on the release of the kernel source for the Pixel 2. I'd imagine it'll surface close to when the next OTA comes out with the October/November security patch. Seems like they aren't interested in releasing source and factory images for the current production build. I'd imagine within a week or two it'll happen.
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Factory images are live:
https://developers.google.com/android/images#walleye
:good::good:
If anyone worried about KRACK needs to stop. If you are visiting http sites stop using them viola no need to worry. It's 2017 and all sites should be using https as a standard. There is no reason for a site not to use it.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
I had to write an essay for a class, and I wanted to post it here. Please correct me on anything I'm wrong on, or recommend anything I should add. But please be nice.
Samsung and LG have locked the bootloader - the part of the phone that checks the phone to make sure the code has not been modified or corrupted - almost since the beginning of android smartphone devices. This prevents people who want to modify their phones or write their own code for them from doing so. From the beginning, it was a wise move. Google had not implemented any security protocols like this in the early days of Android, and this kept people’s data safe and secure. The problem now is that Google has implemented security protocols now yet Samsung and LG still lock their phones down - hard. Even a device as old as the Galaxy Note III, about a 5 year old device, Still cannot be modified or changed. People have been trying for years. The issue now is that Samsung and LG are now overdoing it. They do not need that much security in this respect.
Phone manufacturers should not lock their phones bootloader for two reasons, It shortens product life, and it reduces security. Locking bootloaders shorten product life.
If Samsung or LG lock their bootloaders, it does not allow developers to create updates for that phone. If the bootloaders were unlocked, then developers could take the latest android versions on their own time and create updated versions of Android that LG or Samsung do not want to hassle with. This is good, as security updates, new features, and software improvements could be integrated into these custom versions of Android, allowing consumers to add features and tweaks to their phones that would otherwise be unavailable. This is a great extension of the product life, adding years to the operation time. This has already been proven on multiple handsets, for example, the Nexus series of phones. They have been discontinued and unsupported for nearly 3 years, but they still can be upgraded to the latest android version.
The second reason that Android phones should not be locked is it reduces security. The way Google has the unlocking procedure set up on their phones is you first have to understand how to reboot your phone to fastboot mode, which quickly reduces the number of people who could break their phone, then you have to install the fastboot client on your computer, then you have to run the “fastboot oem-unlock” command to unlock the phone. This also wipes all data off the phone, making it act like it is brand new, to protect whatever data is on the phone. One more step is also implemented, if a Google account was signed into the device, the phone remembers that and during the setup process it will lock you out until you enter the credentials of the previous account. This is an incredibly secure process, using a hardware implemented chip on the board, meaning it is physically impossible to break past, giving your data and phone a very tight security. Where phones are now, however, is not secure. The phone I use every day is an LG V20, which you can hack very easily, all you have to do is plug the phone into a computer and run a script I downloaded of the internet. I wanted my phone modded, so it is my problem if the phone breaks. That process is extremely easy. It also did not clear ANY of my data. I also could have deleted the password, allowing me access to all of the data on my phone. This is incredibly insecure, as you can probably see. The phone manufacturers should use Google’s method of locking, as then you do not have hundreds of people working to break the security of a phone, they already have what they want, an unlocked bootloader.
These two problems with locking bootloaders, or more specifically not letting us unlock bootloaders can be catastrophic to the safety of your data. The shortened product life means you keep having to move your data every time you upgrade your phone, and the fact that most of the workarounds for locking bootloaders decrease security drastically, makes allowing us to unlock bootloaders a very beneficial and secure design for new android phones from manufacturers. They should listen to us and give us what we want.
That's it. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Sadly I think we are getting near the end of bootloader unlocking and rooting the next few years. With so many handsets being released so fast. Android finally putting customizations in people want...the days of great Roms that are maintained are fading fast.
Since HTC has gone down the toilet, great Roms like Viper and LeeDroid are gone since they cant maintain so many different platforms since HTC phones are just run of the mill garbage now.
Hope I'm wrong, but I rarely have a desire except for a kernel and a few minor things that requiring rooting personally. Every custom Roms I've tried for OP something that is critical and basic doest work and I end up back on the Beta and now Q again. As a Verizon customer as well, this adds to the problem.
And then companies like Samsung have pulled an Apple so bootloader unlocking or rooting makes your phone whatever they decide it should be, and void your warranty.
Sorry mods, off topic. Been around a long time and did WinMo dev 10yrs ago on here...we know how that ended....haha
Android is an operating system based on Linux. Linux is distributed under the GNU GPL v2 License. The GPL v2 grants some rights to the user, in particular requesting source code and/or being able to modify a program licensed under it.
Even tho there has been an idea of license v3 because of some controversies, Still, it is not possible for any manufacturer TOS (terms of service) and EULA (end user license agreement) to negate the rights guaranteed by GNU GPL (general public license), as that would be a GPL violation on the part of the manufacturer, who'd lose the right to use the Linux kernel.
All I'm saying is any android device manufacturer is obligated to provide you with a way to unlock bootloader, you just have to demand it the correct way. They can't possibly deny your demand.
They'll lock phones more and more because it helps the security state to keep access to your data.
Google and most tech companies are pretty much part of the intelligence complex and serve the state oligarchy as we have seen with censorship of search results and social media.
I remember before this pandemic, it was not hard to find information about treatments and health. Nowadays, everything is focused on "official sources" like the government agencies that serve big pharma, big war, etc.