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[Android] Motorola Backflip - DON'T BUY, HERE'S WHY!

OK, so I've been using a Kaiser/Tilt with Eclair on it for awhile. I've spent countless hours drooling after the Nexus One. When AT&T finally got the "Backflip" from Motorola, I just couldn't resist. I took the plunge.
I should've known better. I have plenty of AT&T horror stories, and this is the same carrier that wont allow you to tell your Java apps NOT to ask for permission more than once (making Opera mini a PITA but the only usable browser for non-smart-phones).
There is NO option to install applications from untrusted sources. This means anything on your SD card, downloaded from the web or over your wifi at home WILL NOT WORK. Naturally, you also cannot use the "su" command in terminal.
Motoblur is nice I guess, but the uninstallable AT&T paid apps, the limitations of 1.5 firmware (ie: no google navigator, no voice search) and the locked-to-yahoo-search-bar are enough to get me to say NO to any further AT&T abuse.
With the Kaiser's bloatware, they removed/hid apps from you so you wouldn't try to use them and replaced them with their crapware.
AT&T does not know the meaning of "open" and they do not understand Android. You are not buying an Android phone when you buy from AT&T.
You are buying a device LOCKED to a market with a smaller number of applications than the iPhone (I don't use Apple products either ) forced to use a lesser search engine for your most convenient option and subject to losing any application that was once on the market but then removed. You can't install your own apps or even test them on your device. Period.
Also on my first day of using it I got a number of "Force Close" messages including on the built-in applications (ie: Motorola's flavor of the desk clock).
It's decent hardware, it feels pretty zippy to me, but this is exactly why I WONT buy an iPhone.
Screw you, AT&T. I will make sure that everyone I know is properly informed about this crippled device that is nothing like the Android experience is supposed to (expected to!) be.
/endrant phew, going to go breathe for awhile.
EDIT: I will add:
- Set "orientation" on this phone when you tilt it and somehow it gets stuck in one orientation or the other (who knows maybe this one is just me, not seen any other backflips) if you set it back to just when you open/close it it's fine again though
- The desk clock can't be launched manually and is tricky to get to appear trying to get the phone in that perfect angle to display it
- I don't have a separate camera on me right now to show you the menu but to back up with sources:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/1910...n_atandt_not_the_full_android_experience.html
https://supportforums.motorola.com/message/121849
Don't buy this phone. Stay away from AT&T, stay away from Motorola (IMO or at least the motorola backflip).

This is pretty horrible.
I have two questions, though.
1) Can you take a screen cap of the Settings > Applications screen so we can see the lack of Unknown Sources option? That'd really help people see the validity of this issue.
2) I hope you have some kind of 30-day money-back guarantee when buying a handset from AT&T like Sprint offers. Otherwise, ouch =/

I haven't tried to install an apk from astro or anything, but i have pushed a few with ADB which seems to work fine. It kinda sucks, but I really hope that we can figure out root access soon! I don't care for blur, but I like android. Hopefully we don't have to wait to long. Here is an ADB guide http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=643866

I wonder if Apple suddenly took over AT&T because this kind of behaviour is more common to them

... It's not only AT&T who manages to confuse their customers about an OSS... Don't forget who decided to lock down an open software system boot-loader for everyone *cough*Motorola*cough*

Apple made them an offer they could not refuse!
nuff said

I spent some time with one yesterday.
Ouch, even my Fuze running eclair is faster.
They really broke this machine.
I am worried about other att phones!

My hope for an even somewhat open x10 on AT&T is starting to dwindle.

HushH said:
My hope for an even somewhat open x10 on AT&T is starting to dwindle.
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mines as well. i hope they dont. i know its off topic but is there an officail release date for the x10 on att? i hear it may be april/may

Someone more familiar than I needs to figure out the proper java system call to enable unknown/untrusted sources and then post on this thread the proper at command to execute it via CLI. You wouldn't even need root to do this.

IConrad01 said:
Someone more familiar than I needs to figure out the proper java system call to enable unknown/untrusted sources and then post on this thread the proper at command to execute it via CLI. You wouldn't even need root to do this.
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Assuming the software running on the Backflip is the same software they released the source to on opensource.motorola.com, there may be hope of that. I'll dig into it when I get time.

Wow. I am surprised that this was picked up by Gizmodo. Do we have anyone corroborating this? Doesn't this somehow violate Google's terms of service?

HushH said:
My hope for an even somewhat open x10 on AT&T is starting to dwindle.
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Mine too! Just means to spend the couple extra hundred dollars and get an unlocked unbranded one.
I got the Backflip just because I am moving on from my jailbroken iPhone and I wanted something neat and shiny.
I can say that there is a lot of smack talk here, but give these guys a chance here to root the phone and get some things working on it.
It's been two days since the release and I can already say, that I like the phone a hell of a lot more today then I did on Sunday. I've been able to install untrusted sources using the Droid Explorer, a bit of a pain in the ass, but it's okay, considering that if I want Android, then this is the only way to go for now.
But I have faith in someone out there... Someone will figure this out.
I just hope it's within my 30 day return policy.
EDIT: I Installed "GDE" on my device and I am able to use the Google search widget... So that issue is sort of solved...

This may just be my unit but the A2DP doesn't work right, it starts playing music then begins to fast forward whatever you are watching or listening to. Did a hard reset, no luck. Looks like I already need a replacement lol.

Squeaky369 said:
EDIT: I Installed "GDE" on my device and I am able to use the Google search widget... So that issue is sort of solved...
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Can you please explain how you got the google search widget working?

nutcake852 said:
Can you please explain how you got the google search widget working?
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Eh; fail on my part. It's mostly a cosmetic fix. I didn't actually test it, but when you click on it, it changes to "Yahoo".
So my bad on that one.
God, I hate Yahoo. Ever since that stupid ass cowboy did that commercial, it's ate away at my soul...

I don't know why...
To think we were all worried about how Verizon was going to cripple android only to have ATT do it instead. At first I was amazed and then I realized that any android phone would have outshown their prized phone...oh well one more reason to love being on T-Mobile. ;-)

I played with a Backflip. My god it's a horrid phone. And yeah, Android is completely locked down, with no way to delete those AT&T apps and no installing off-Market Android Apps out of the box.
I was going to wait to see what AT&T was going to bring to the table, but I'm not holding my breath.
Btw, I noticed that AT&T trained to sell the Backflip pretty hard. Like, seriously, I was looking at phones today, and every other word out of the rep's mouth was that I should buy the Backflip. Thankfully I'm more informed than that. I walked out with an iPhone instead. (Don't grill me, I use a Touch Pro2, I just needed a good phone for my work line >_<)

Help i ****ed up my phone
So i just rooted my g1 to get the nexus one features to it and now all it is doing is foreclosing instead of going to the home screen if anyone can help can you please email me at [email protected] thank you

Xodium said:
I played with a Backflip. My god it's a horrid phone. And yeah, Android is completely locked down, with no way to delete those AT&T apps and no installing off-Market Android Apps out of the box.
I was going to wait to see what AT&T was going to bring to the table, but I'm not holding my breath.
Btw, I noticed that AT&T trained to sell the Backflip pretty hard. Like, seriously, I was looking at phones today, and every other word out of the rep's mouth was that I should buy the Backflip. Thankfully I'm more informed than that. I walked out with an iPhone instead. (Don't grill me, I use a Touch Pro2, I just needed a good phone for my work line >_<)
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I really do think though that this is going to end up to be a decent phone.
I know I am a little pro for that comment, just because I bought one. But lets look at every phone that ever comes out. There is always some sort of challenge that we have to overcome.
And; with all the threads I've been reading about this; it looks like it was BOTH AT&T and Motorola that are to blame for locking this phone down. ATT cause they don't want us to install from anything but an "App Store" and Motorola because they don't want their devices used for what "there were not intended to be used for," is the wording I've seen floating around the internet.
But in all seriousness. I am coming from an iPhone 3GS which I had jailbroken. So I am coming from a phone that I had everything and anything on to this, and I am, overall, happy with it. Although it's only been 5 days, I can say I don't think I'll change my mind in the next 25 days.
But that's just my two-cents.

Windows Phone 7 rant

I am a die hard WM user - never used any other OS. Was awaiting WP7 for months!
It is a dumb blonde! Pretty, but useless.
1. Keyboard is good, but no option to longpress for numbers
2. Phone dialler - no option to dial name of contact on phone dialler
3. Can't search calendar for specific appointments
4. Office hub is useless - can't organize in folder, ending up with loooong list of documents.
5. Word mobile is hopeless for formatting compared to WM6.5
6. Adobe PDF documents - can't be organized in folders. Can't even rename files
7. No video calling
8. The stupidest thing: Can't transfer files from PC to phone. What the ^$%^$ !
I have to go to Dropbox every time!

Buy an android phone lol

6.5
Stay with a WM 6.5 device. I kept my FUZE but after some time with the Focus would NEVER use it or any other WM device again. I felt a lot like you do at first, but that quickly wore off the more I used WP7. If you already bought it and feel the way you do, sell it and get something else. I used to see a lot of rants like this months ago but see almost no posts like yours recently. I think you should have posted this months ago, you might have found some allies, but not today.

JamesAllen said:
Stay with a WM 6.5 device. I kept my FUZE but after some time with the Focus would NEVER use it or any other WM device again. I felt a lot like you do at first, but that quickly wore off the more I used WP7. If you already bought it and feel the way you do, sell it and get something else. I used to see a lot of rants like this months ago but see almost no posts like yours recently. I think you should have posted this months ago, you might have found some allies, but not today.
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Well said. I was going to say pretty much the same thing. I struggled going from WM to WP at first (I still miss swype dearly) but after a few days of WP7 I could never go back despite some shortcomings.

Goodbye 6.5
The things I thought I could not live without in WM6.5 have turned out to be silly. I don't know why I felt that way. Anyway, many apps I used on 6.5 are now available on WP7, and more coming daily. The news of the potential features in Mango take away many if not most of my concerns.

I think we need to remember that WP7 is very young still, iOS didn't have copy and paste also when it came out... Give it a year or so I'm sure WP7 will be up there.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App

My grouse is that WM 6.5 had so many features that have been stripped down to the point that WP7 is inconvenient. Why strip down Office to a bare minimum? Why remove the smart dialler in the phone? Why remove the long press for numbers in the keyboard? Why no USB functionality? Moreover, there are inconsistencies within WP7 itself. Why no voice GPS? E.g., why no search option in calendar? Why no zune support for synching data files? Why no wifi tethering?
I am not comparing WP7 to other OS. I am comparing it with Microsoft's own previous product. 6.5 to 7 is meant to be an upgrade, but it is actually a downgrade.
Why deliver a stripped down product when the previous product (6.5) had all these? And now, they have to catch up with "updates" with all the attendant bad publicity, and poor sales.
They had 3 years to get it right. They had at least 8 months in the beta testing when people clamored for copy-paste.
Stupid clowns.

buskanam said:
My grouse is that WM 6.5 had so many features that have been stripped down to the point that WP7 is inconvenient.
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Agreed.
Why remove the smart dialer in the phone? Why remove the long press for numbers in the keyboard? Why no USB functionality?
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Agreed.
Why no Zune support for synching data files?
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Agreed.
Why no wifi tethering?
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That is a biggie, agreed. And let us not forget custom ring tones (sure you can sideload, but really MS screwed the pooch here).
I am not comparing WP7 to other OS. I am comparing it with Microsoft's own previous product. 6.5 to 7 is meant to be an upgrade, but it is actually a downgrade.
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In some important ways it is a downgrade, in other ways it is an upgrade. All in all WP7 may be better due to newer/faster hardware, yet the FAIL of lackluster Bluetooth integration, no rSAP, no custom ring tones, no way to sync files easily, no wireless tethering, etc, etc and yes etc is really a let down. MS always seem to go three steps forward and two steps back, then perhaps release ONE of the two 'lost' steps like it is a huge improvement and technology advancement. If MS does not get their act together and release what many consider normal features, the Android market will leave MS in the dust.
MS can do much better, so what is keeping them from reaching some simple goals every other major phone OS has been doing for many years (including MS' 6.x)? THAT is the real question.

I think the worst thing is the wifi sleep issue that no one can seem to find a fix for. I bought one a week ago and its been sitting in the box while I use my desire. I just can't use it properly without having the option to leave wifi on
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App

CdTDroiD said:
I think the worst thing is the wifi sleep issue that no one can seem to find a fix for. I bought one a week ago and its been sitting in the box while I use my desire. I just can't use it properly without having the option to leave wifi on
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App
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I agree 100%. This issue and another big Wi-Fi issue are the bane of my existence on WP7. Anyone have trouble connecting to different Wi-Fi networks? This is by far the biggest nuisance I deal with. What I mean by this is, for example: I am at work all day connected to the office Wi-Fi. I come home and my Quantum refuses to connect to my home network. It tries to connect for about 15 seconds or so, then eventually gives up. The only way to get it behaving properly is to reboot the phone. Turning Wi-Fi off then back on, disassociating with all remembered networks, etc. all do nothing. Don't know if this is unique to me because there is just something specific about the networks I am connecting to that creates "The Perfect Storm" and throws the Wi-Fi off, or if this is a widespread problem. Either way, I can't wait until it is resolved.

lynxinteractive said:
I agree 100%. This issue and another big Wi-Fi issue are the bane of my existence on WP7. Anyone have trouble connecting to different Wi-Fi networks? This is by far the biggest nuisance I deal with. What I mean by this is, for example: I am at work all day connected to the office Wi-Fi. I come home and my Quantum refuses to connect to my home network. It tries to connect for about 15 seconds or so, then eventually gives up. The only way to get it behaving properly is to reboot the phone. Turning Wi-Fi off then back on, disassociating with all remembered networks, etc. all do nothing. Don't know if this is unique to me because there is just something specific about the networks I am connecting to that creates "The Perfect Storm" and throws the Wi-Fi off, or if this is a widespread problem. Either way, I can't wait until it is resolved.
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I don't get this issue at all mate, i pretty much do the same - connect to a network at work, then go home, it automatically connects fine for me at either location. I also connect to Wifi networks at my parents and GF's mum's and it connects flawlessly to either one without any hassle.
Though i must admit, the ability to keep wireless on even when the phone goes to sleep is a must! It will however stay on if you plug the phone into its charger, though not always convenient.

lynxinteractive said:
I agree 100%. This issue and another big Wi-Fi issue are the bane of my existence on WP7. Anyone have trouble connecting to different Wi-Fi networks? This is by far the biggest nuisance I deal with. What I mean by this is, for example: I am at work all day connected to the office Wi-Fi. I come home and my Quantum refuses to connect to my home network. It tries to connect for about 15 seconds or so, then eventually gives up. The only way to get it behaving properly is to reboot the phone. Turning Wi-Fi off then back on, disassociating with all remembered networks, etc. all do nothing. Don't know if this is unique to me because there is just something specific about the networks I am connecting to that creates "The Perfect Storm" and throws the Wi-Fi off, or if this is a widespread problem. Either way, I can't wait until it is resolved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get this issue either except on my nook and I think my wireless router @ that location is the issue (pretty sure of it). The WPA only a select few ip addresses on certain mac addresses for some reason so if the address is taken by another device it doesn't connect I thought my router was smart guess I was wrong but once I forget the network and then reapply the security settings it connects, I have no problem with my other router.

After purchasing an Acer Iconia a500 , I realized that it isnt just WP7 users who whine and complain about the latest upgrades , its tech wide ! I mean some of the gripes you have are laudible ,but in the long run 6.5 is done , so if you long for that experience it wont last , sure theres still some people using Windows 98 , XP , but at some point it becomes so outdated it becomes useless, you will find wm 6.5 fits this category , sometimes you have to go back to go forward and that is the case with WP7 !
Trust me the "copy paste" function is useless , I havent even used it yet (or missed not having it) , As I said I have a tablet with Honeycomb on it , its really irratating hearing all the babies crying about updates , the damn OS has been out for a month and these crybabies are whining "it doesnt do this ,it doesnt do that" , the thing is like most devices that are new it will not have certain things right off the bat , yes the device can be rooted a plus , but somethings cant be changed yet , just like the missing api's wp7 , that stuff will come , theres so many talented people in XDA , JUST RELAX AND ENJOY THE RIDE!,

Vintage144 said:
After purchasing an Acer Iconia a500 , I realized that it isnt just WP7 users who whine and complain about the latest upgrades , its tech wide ! I mean some of the gripes you have are laudible ,but in the long run 6.5 is done , so if you long for that experience it wont last , sure theres still some people using Windows 98 , XP , but at some point it becomes so outdated it becomes useless, you will find wm 6.5 fits this category , sometimes you have to go back to go forward and that is the case with WP7 !
Trust me the "copy paste" function is useless , I havent even used it yet (or missed not having it) , As I said I have a tablet with Honeycomb on it , its really irratating hearing all the babies crying about updates , the damn OS has been out for a month and these crybabies are whining "it doesnt do this ,it doesnt do that" , the thing is like most devices that are new it will not have certain things right off the bat , yes the device can be rooted a plus , but somethings cant be changed yet , just like the missing api's wp7 , that stuff will come , theres so many talented people in XDA , JUST RELAX AND ENJOY THE RIDE!,
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Cease with this being reasonable and level-headed immediately! If you continue with this behavior, I will report you to the Mods and request your immediate removal and ban! How can we be expected to have every thread ruined with incessant back and forth bickering, passive aggressive flaming, and pathetic trolling if behavior like yours is allowed to continue on this forum?

ehh this is why i never liked windows 7

CdTDroiD said:
Buy an android phone lol
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how about you post something useful..
This guy has a lot of good points.
" OFFICE HUB"
is a joke
microsoft word is such a pain to use that formatting within the document is impossible!!
there is no way to save formatting. so If I need to write everything in red. I have to hit format every single time and then select an option. that along with the keyboard taking up the entire length of the document.
BLEH!
adobe reader is the slowest pdf viewer ive ever used!!! and i remember using an 8125 and reading pdfs on it..
The wifi issues are a pain!! they are so the carrier can force us to use there data plan. I want to use WIFI why did i buy the phone with wifi capabilities if it wont even stay on!!
The contacts are again a pain to search through.
there is no way to delete lines within a conversation..
Or Deleting multiple text messages.
Microsoft is really falling short on this one.

Vintage144 said:
After purchasing an Acer Iconia a500 , I realized that it isnt just WP7 users who whine and complain about the latest upgrades , its tech wide ! I mean some of the gripes you have are laudible ,but in the long run 6.5 is done , so if you long for that experience it wont last , sure theres still some people using Windows 98 , XP , but at some point it becomes so outdated it becomes useless, you will find wm 6.5 fits this category , sometimes you have to go back to go forward and that is the case with WP7 !
Trust me the "copy paste" function is useless , I havent even used it yet (or missed not having it) , As I said I have a tablet with Honeycomb on it , its really irratating hearing all the babies crying about updates , the damn OS has been out for a month and these crybabies are whining "it doesnt do this ,it doesnt do that" , the thing is like most devices that are new it will not have certain things right off the bat , yes the device can be rooted a plus , but somethings cant be changed yet , just like the missing api's wp7 , that stuff will come , theres so many talented people in XDA , JUST RELAX AND ENJOY THE RIDE!,
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this has nothing to do with XDA.....
this has to do with Microsoft developing a poor operating software for my 499.99$ phone. This is a rant about the missing features that are obvious to a smart phone and you are saying relaxing dont worry.. this is what i purchased the phone for and it is severely lacking in a lot of areas.

professorwol said:
this has nothing to do with XDA.....
this has to do with Microsoft developing a poor operating software for my 499.99$ phone. This is a rant about the missing features that are obvious to a smart phone and you are saying relaxing dont worry.. this is what i purchased the phone for and it is severely lacking in a lot of areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you were missinformed of what WP7 was and could do at the time of your purchase, its your own fault... grab your 499.99$ and take it back, problem solved.

professorwol said:
this has nothing to do with XDA.....
this has to do with Microsoft developing a poor operating software for my 499.99$ phone. This is a rant about the missing features that are obvious to a smart phone and you are saying relaxing dont worry.. this is what i purchased the phone for and it is severely lacking in a lot of areas.
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Click to collapse
I find it pretty funny people moaning about the lack of features WP7 has and how great Android and IOS are.
I had Android from the very start when hardly anyone knew what it was and i had that brick of a phone (although i quite liked it lol) called the G1.
Android was released on 1.0 software however i thought it was a practical joke no lie the battery would last 5 hours if you was lucky and the phone would heat up like a microwave oven besides the various other bugs etc including freezing up completely. It took Google 5 updates until we got the first named update "Cupcake" 1.5 before android was even half usable and had copy & paste etc. And to be honest it should of started on 1.5 so my G1 only got 1 decent update to 1.6.
Its the same with all the other android phones i have had the SE X10 did go from 1.6 to 2.3 only because legions of p*ssed off people including myself moaned at sony like there was no tomorrow when they said it would only get 2.1 (i think).
Etc Etc the point it Android is way too fragmented and buying a Android phone is like entering a lottery with regards to updates and added features etc.
Same with Apple it took them at least a year to add even copy & paste not too mention all the other stuff that was missing like MMS & Adobe Flash (ah yeah still ain't got that one).
Microsoft have given us a much better OS than both Google or Apple right off the bat and the amount of added features Mango is bringing is pretty amazing adding more stuff than 1 or 2 major android updates and even getting so things in the first year of WP7 that iPhone hasn't got after 5 years.

Sidekick LX 2009

Hi,
I have plans to buy a Sidekick LX 2009 for use in Belgium.
Now i have read about that when i root my Sidekick that i can use the GPRS network from all the world is this correct can i send emails and surfing on the internet with my Data plan ?
Thanks.
Greetings,
Rudi

There is a lot wrong with that question. First, the LX 2009 was not on android, it was on Danger's proprietary firmware. This means that it's not a rootable scenario, as there's no root to get. I believe what you're talking about it getting it Unlocked which would have to come from Danger/T-Mobile, but I'm not sure if they're still giving out unlock codes for that phone, as it's now old and no longer made.

I wonder if you are still reading this but I think this link may help http://wiki.sidekick.com/thread/4481508/Registering%2FActivating+an+unlocked+sidekick+3+on+other+networks
[email protected] said:
Registering/Activating an unlocked sidekick 3 on other networks
Feb 20 2011, 12:14 PM EST
after u by bass the screen by holding the button with the three bars and the L button holding at same time for like 2 sec after ur at the main screen hit the menu button thats the one with the three bars go to settings network options scroll down to network APN now click the change network apn and erase the tmobile one thats there leave it blank then hit the menu butten and click done with in a few seconds or instantly like it did for me it will activate and u make a new user name or use one u have if u do that is and my email started up and the download catalog worked and my sidekick 3 said i was registered text me at 9736104730 (im on att) or email me at [email protected] it took me like 6 days to get my phone to activate and i was getting mad and i did this by mistake and im glade it works now lol att pay as you go on sidekick 3 loving it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Well that trick doesn't work. I wonder if we can flash the Sharp Jump (offered by Cincinnati Bell) firmware onto this device? Then someone would have an old copy of the Danger SDK lying around and it would become grey territory in terms of legality of the use of the SDK.

sorry to bump an old ars tread but my SK4G **** on me.... and back to the LX 2009 anyone know how to at least get internet running? apn settings are limited on this device and epc.tmobile.com is a no go

try unlocking the device. if tmobile wont give you the code, then find an unlocking service. ebay is probably cheaper than a regular service. either way, get the code and put a non tmobile sim in and unlock. then put your sim card back in, find the apn settings, delete whatever apn is there, and then put tmobiles current apn in. if that doesnt work, nothing will.

Danger-based Sidekicks ran everything through their proprietary Back-End Servers which were shut down back in May of 2011. After that time, NO Danger-Based Sidekicks have been able to access the internet. Sharp has since tweaked their remaining LX09 stock and re-marketed the devices (complete with an Opera Browser with Internet services and a non-Sidekick name) to other carriers (including Mobility Wireless and Cincinnati Bell). their tweaks were not made public to be applied to T-mobile branded devices.

ncmacasl said:
Sharp has since tweaked their remaining LX09 stock and re-marketed the devices (complete with an Opera Browser with Internet services and a non-Sidekick name) to other carriers (including Mobility Wireless and Cincinnati Bell). their tweaks were not made public to be applied to T-mobile branded devices.
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If someone can extract the flash through a JTAG or other flash reader, then the Sidekick LX scene may explode; if the hackers can bypass legal measures.

Danger's agreement for developers was very restrictive.
To get any kind of modding started on the Hiptop, you would need some leaks directly from former Danger employees... Not only is that unlikely, the trail has gotten awfully cold. The Hiptop (and all its kin) has been pink and dead for a long time. Some ho killed it.

Agreed. Regardless, the LX is a lost cause now.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

Matarick said:
Well that trick doesn't work. I wonder if we can flash the Sharp Jump (offered by Cincinnati Bell) firmware onto this device? Then someone would have an old copy of the Danger SDK lying around and it would become grey territory in terms of legality of the use of the SDK.
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Click to collapse
do u have a copy of Danger SDK..?? is there any way i can get it?? i have a SHARP PV300(almost same as sidekick lx2009) but cannot install any new apps into it.. i just want to install a few apps in it. there is GPS on the device.. but it is useless as it comes without an application,.. is there any way u can help me..??

nitthin21 said:
do u have a copy of Danger SDK..?? is there any way i can get it?? i have a SHARP PV300(almost same as sidekick lx2009) but cannot install any new apps into it.. i just want to install a few apps in it. there is GPS on the device.. but it is useless as it comes without an application,.. is there any way u can help me..??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The short answer is no.
There always were two different builds of Danger OS's. There was a developer build that was used by Danger employees and a production OS that required a developer's code to install 3rd party apps.
There's a good chance they still have two builds of the OS for your device. Sharp likely has a developer build they use in house--and you have a consumer version.
Because the catalog is dead and gone, I don't see any reason why they would have maintained the ability to "unlock" devices for devs. The whole dev code feature may have been deleted.
Even if there still is a way to unlock the device, I believe the developer codes were produced using a hash against the device IMEI. But, that doesn't help much because I don't know of anyone that ever cracked Danger's crypto method.
The Danger development website was capable of generating codes for approved devs, but it has been gone for years. So, you can't get the algorithm directly or produce more examples for evaluation...
And, you should be able to copy your device's location to the clipboard and use it in the browser. It's not completely worthless...

orange808 said:
Danger's agreement for developers was very restrictive.
To get any kind of modding started on the Hiptop, you would need some leaks directly from former Danger employees... Not only is that unlikely, the trail has gotten awfully cold. The Hiptop (and all its kin) has been pink and dead for a long time. Some ho killed it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROFL - great multi-pun replay!!!

It's great to see the old-school Sidekicks get talked about. I still have my SK3 and SK2008. The SK3 was a personal favorite of mine. As far as hacking them is concerned, I'm sure there's a way to root them as the basis for the OS was a Java VM running on Linux if I remember correctly. Microsoft would have to fork over the code for the open source parts of it. The SK LX 2009 was a new start for the Danger OS and ran NetBSD as the base of the OS. The old SK's are CHEAP to pick up nowadays given their limited utility, but they would be the ultimate hacker's challenge as far as modding and breaking into the OS. One guy managed to do it and got hired by Danger waaaaaay back in the earliest days of the Hiptop/Sidekick. Unfortunately, it seems his work isn't available to download anymore. HOWEVER, someone else used his work for the basis for trying to get Android running on the old Sidekick devices: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/android-beginners/acUqRd9ZuRY
It doesn't look like it got very far, but there's some interesting information there. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit here.

Yep. That was jgeorge...
He took over running the developer website after Danger hired him...
Ever wanted to have spell check and autocorrect running from a single dictionary across your entire device?
Gee. I bet Apple will market the heck out of that "new" feature next.
Yay.
Come to think of it, where is that feature, Google?
You going to let an old Sidekick trump you?
P.S. Real Sidekicks don't drop keypresses.

Does yours drop them too? I thought it was just mine. Though, the problem has largely subsided with the most recent ROMs like RAGE4.0 and GOv3.2Bulky (which I'm running now.). still, it hasn't totally been eliminated. This thing will show flashes of what made the old Sidekicks great, but the execution by Samsung and T-Mobile wasn't what it needed to be. Still, this device shows that Android is really Hiptop OS 2.0 (sort of). There's so much in Android that first was in Hiptop.
<sigh> I really wish MS hadn't bought Danger.
orange808 said:
Yep. That was jgeorge...
He took over running the developer website after Danger hired him...
Ever wanted to have spell check and autocorrect running from a single dictionary across your entire device?
Gee. I bet Apple will market the heck out of that "new" feature next.
Yay.
Come to think of it, where is that feature, Google?
You going to let an old Sidekick trump you?
P.S. Real Sidekicks don't drop keypresses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Microsoft wasted their money. But, Danger was doomed when the Hiptop 3 arrived. That design failed to innovate and move forward.
The Hiptop, Hiptop Color, and Hiptop 2 were all incremental improvements on the same core experience. At the time, it was ok because they met general expectations.
But, the Hiptop 3 needed to be something special--and it wasn't. That hurt.
The other problem was the closed platform. Danger had trouble getting development off the ground. The whole thing was a powered with a proprietary Java-based (aka slow) platform. They added MIDP support later, but that just encouraged quick and dirty ports--they needed native quality apps.
Danger's (Apple copied the idea) app approval process and catalog was a great idea to guarantee stable software and boost revenue. But, the closed platform also discouraged developers. Somewhere in the middle of the Hiptop 2's lifespan, Danger sued over Hiptones (a grey market app) and stopped giving most people dev codes. That chilled any enthusiasm that may have existed and effectively killed the device with most devs.
Microsoft still could have saved the platform. But, Danger shot themselves in the foot long before that by locking out devs and failing to innovate.

I agree it was a stupid purchase by Microsoft. $500 million was just ridiculous to spend. I really wonder what they thought it would get them. The owners of Danger made out like bandits presumably.
I've heard that things like more advanced Bluetooth profiles like A2DP were kept off the SK3 because of carrier requests. It was also very odd how long it took to add support for MMS to say nothing about the issue of locking down the ability to add your own ringtones. I know someone suggested to T-Mobile that they make dev keys available as a premium download in the Catalogue, but that went nowhere.
Speaking of 3rd party stuff, I wonder to this day what else could be put on an SD card to open up features besides just the themes. There had to have been more to that which could have been done to gain further access to the devies. I tried one time with a friend to hack into the SK3 with my linux desktop via USB, but that didn't go anywhere.

Well, T-Mobile owned half of Danger. Their "requests" and (shortsighted) hunger for a few dollars in ringtone revenue were very costly in the long term.
For years, there was a special T-Mobile flavor of the OS with missing features. That didn't end until the LX 09.
Many other features failed to appear bcause Danger wasn't taking the future seriously. For instance, the devs had software to store our emails on sdcard. The software was around forever and we all downloaded and used it, but it never made it into the OS... Somewhere around the release of the Hiptop 3, Danger stopped taking email seriously. Did they really think the LX 09 would attract a wide range of users with a dinky little mailbox?
We also had proof of concept for video decoding that ran all the back to the Hiptop 3. But, again, it went nowhere for years.
So many missed opportunities..

I made a few bucks back in the day by making themes and custom ringtones for the lx and lx09 I still have my 09 with like 100 custom ringtones and its unlocked but till I can find a way to override the danger server dependancy it will sit in its box in my closet gathering dust I loved that thing. I'm upset now that I sold my sk3 and sklx and only kept the 09 lol
Sent from my HTC Ruby using xda app-developers app

[Q] Can I root but still have most of Android/Samsung experience too?

I am accustomed to using and working within the generic android environment. I generally like it. I am pretty much exclusively a Samsung guy but I just recently got my wife a G3. I have read all the things about how I can make my phone lightning quick without all the bloatware and I can be entitled to all the event driven programming that stock android allows me but I have to say, I 90% like what I get out of the box. Sure, there are little annoyances that come up but mostly what I want to gain is the 10%. I don't want to reinvent the wheel and put in a new launcher and then have to get accustomed to a whole new way of doing things. Or worse, my camera might not work as well etc.
I am mostly sold. I don't care about voided warranties. I am going to drop $800 on a Note 4 in the coming weeks when it finally rolls out and frankly I would like to really access the power of that processor and ram (whether it is 3 or 4 gigs - only Samsung knows right now). A big part of my buying the phone is the compatibility with the SPen. I am a business man so it would negate me buying it, to root it and then see the SPen go bye bye. In short, this phone is to be a simple tool for my business but I am afraid of what I am about to get.
Let me go back a bit. Last week, I bought my wife a G3. Another top of the line phone. I bought it and am considering the note 4 for the same reason, they can do split screens. I thought I might be able to do limitedly with the phone on the go what I do with my laptop, drag and drop from email to email, files. The note 4 is going to be a powerful phone but who knows if we are there yet. Regardless, from these forums and around the net, it seem the technology is there. So what is there to do? I like the bulk of Samsung's programming but it really angered me when I started toying with the LG G3 and I discovered that I could not open all apps in their duel mode. I mean what the H E double hockeysticks! How does LG know what I would find valuable to have open at once?
So, I am committed to the Note 4 because I know I will get top of the line. I am assuming that I am going to be restricted from using the phone like I want, like the LG and will be faced with: to root or not to root. What I am saying is, can I root the phone and still keep all the stuff I like? yes I know one of you nifty busy-bodies have not even gotten your hands on the phone yet to discover how to mess with it and get by knoks etc but do you feel my pain and understand my quandary?
It is not that I am afraid to root. I am adventurous at heart but I need to make money. I am a business man. I don't make money by the hour but by the opportunity. When I see something that can help me be productive, I try to implement it into my way of doing things. I like tinkering like you guys. I appreciate you but I only have limit time to do these things, otherwise they become distractions. So I don't have hours to figure out why my main camera is now only taking selfies on the face of the phone instead or why the SPen doesn't work. I want what I want but the move needs to make sense to me.
So the basic question is: if I go down this path (with any phone) can I root and still have touchwiz experience, for instance just so I can mess with the phone ever so slightly? A side question would be - am I going to find many disadvantages for the right of having full control of my phone such as having to update the phone or having bugs? I guess, the simple short question is: Do the challenges outweigh the benefits?
I have currently an old S2 that is working. I am using a galaxy LTE awaiting, the note 4. But, I assume I am going to get pretty angry when I find that an $800+ phone won't what a hack can make it do. I just don't want to lose everything else for the sake of one entitlement. So, I can practice seeing what it is like doing these things with my S2 or even my recent LTE. I just have not seen anyone bring this up. People go on about the romance of blanking out a phone for total freedom but they don't tell me much about how close the new launchers are going to be to what I am used to.
Thanks, community for all that you develop. You are cool. I only wish I had countless hours to mess around with this stuff but money has to be made. Believe me, I am looking for any excuse to have a "lightning fast" phone or to do some funky things like you guys do, but give me the war stories. Tell me if I have to decide to compromise. Recommend a launcher maybe. Yes I know the Note can't even be developed yet but it will someday. Anyway, thanks.

I'm not sure you understand exactly what root does. Root gives you "root" level access, aka Superuser, aka Administrator access. Think of Android like a computer in a public library. Lots of things (settings, certain programs, certain directories mainly) are locked down and inaccessible by people who don't have the password or an admin account, because they don't want people messing around with them. Android is the same way. Many (most?) people think of smartphones as just that - phones. They don't think of it as a computer, even though that's exactly what it is, in every aspect of the word. Without restrictions, it would be very, very easy for the average user to completely screw up their phone.
And that is why Android comes with these restrictions (which carriers exploit to install unremovable apps). Rooting your phone removes many of these restrictions, which is also why rooting typically voids your warranty. You might want to root to get rid of useless bloatware like NFL Mobile or Verizon Navigation or Samsung's browser because you only use Chrome. But it's just as easy to (accidentally or stupidly) delete a core Android program, and now your phone is stuck in a crash loop and you've got a $700 battery powered paper weight.
That said, root gives you Superuser access. And that's it. Root doesn't change anything, for better or worse.
It's what you do with that access that matters. Freezing/deleting bloatware that would otherwise be constantly running in the background can improve your phone's performance. You can install the Xposed framework to clear up your notification panel and status bar, add functionality to your buttons, and port features from other brands to work on yours. Tasker is a very powerful (and very confusing) app that you can use to make your phone do things automatically depending on where you are, when it is, etc. You can block ads within games and browsers. You can do back-ups of your apps and data and share them between devices, or when moving from and old phone to a new one. With root sometimes you can bypass restrictions imposed by the carrier because they want to milk you for more money (like wifi hotspot).
I'm also not certain you understand what a launcher is. The launcher is merely the interface. Homescreens, app drawer, dock, icons, etc. I honestly don't know what a 3rd party launcher like Nova, Apex, or Go does to S-Pen functionality on the Note series. But it's merely a different interface, which can be disabled or uninstalled without issue.
What you might be thinking of is the ROM itself. ROM is a bit of a misnomer (meaning Read Only Memory, like a CD_ROM or DVD-ROM), but in the Android world, the ROM is what we have taken to call the operating system. For example, a TouchWiz ROM is heavily modified, and very different than the ROM of a Nexus, which is 100% "stock" Android. Then you have custom ROMs like Cyanogenmod. Installing a different ROM on your Note 4 will absolutely kill your S-Pen functionality, unless it's based on the stock N4 ROM (for example, stock, but debloated, streamlined, and tweaked a bit) and retains those features that Samsung built into it.
With a launcher you can make one phone's homescreen and app drawer look like another's. But when you go into the settings, they'll look different, because that's the ROM, not the launcher you're looking at.
One thing to nota bene is that Samsung has become increasingly restrictive about root and unlocked bootloaders. An unlocked bootloader is required to flash a different ROM (although running different ROMs in Safestrap is usually still possible). Samsung flagships from AT&T and Verizon are notoriously restricted. Google "towelroot" to find out just how restrictive they're getting. Of the "big 4" US carriers, T-Mobile is undoubtedly the least restrictive. With AT&T and T-Mo you also have the option to buy an "unlocked" device, but you won't get the pay-over-time benefits of a subsidy or payment plan. "Unlocked" refers to carrier compatibility, not the bootloader (although carrier unlocked phones are typically easier to unlock the bootloader). But if you subsidize a phone from VZW or AT&T, particularly one from the Samsung Note or Galaxy S line, it's entirely possible that root might never be achieved, or might take a long time. We're talking about rooting a phone that isn't even out yet, and we have no idea what kind of "security" measures are in store.
Root is a powerful tool, but the most powerful tool for your phone other than root is knowledge. Read, read, read, read, ask some questions, and read and read. Find some "for dummies" guides and read those. Watch some youtube videos. The problem with XDA, if there is one, is that stuff like this doesn't have a learning "curve" so much as a learning "sheer cliff made of buttered ice". Lots of acronyms, jargon, technical terms, and other gibberish. Grab some coffee or Red Bull, and start learning.

app permissions removed by phone without asking!

I always had suspected that Samsung would infringe on my new phone, finally received evidence directly from Samsung so its undeniable now!

it's a setting you control. by design as specified by latest Android

revized said:
I always had suspected that Samsung would infringe on my new phone, finally received evidence directly from Samsung so its undeniable now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should probably spend some time learning about Android 11 and up and the permissions. If you look, you will see this is an option YOU can control.
Don't blame Samsung for your lack of knowledge.
Start here:
Android 12 will automatically hibernate unused apps to free up space
Android 12 is introducing an app hibernation feature that removes temporary files of unused apps in order to free up space.
www.xda-developers.com

Since Pie and especially 11 onward Android is full of unpleasant surprises.
I would have it left on 10... I'm deliberately still running Pie on my 10+

i like getting home from work or using weekends spending the evening ticking boxes windows 10 style has always been a favorite of mine, phew windows xp was so boring, nothing to always fix, and thanks android 11 now I get to have all kinds of fun reading through litigation style setting the power that be keep implementing on MY device, kinda like buying a car and regularly functions change, causing annoying problems, (oh wait maybe updates never cause problems? )
so should we start updating automobiles for all that fun downtime and relaxing manual reading goodness?
nah window xp and note 10 is the way for me see

revized said:
I always had suspected that Samsung would infringe on my new phone, finally received evidence directly from Samsung so its undeniable now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup.... I wont go on a rant (which means I will...) but this, along with other compromises like this have convinced me there needs to be a minor Revolution in handsets. I mean a device created remind you of the device next to it. Unfortunately I smashed my phone a few months ago and at an inopportune time was forced to choose a new one. I left the whole table open (barring how ridiculous). I chose a pixel 4XL. There were many factors ( mostly personal preferences), but in the end I saw the writing on the wall. Nothing impressed me. A brand new phone would be painful proper rooting. This left only the devices worked over by better individuals (xda members).
And when it came down to it if the bootloader couldn't be unlocked, it was a deal-breaker.
I think the last genuine phone for the average nerd was the Nexus 6.
.... Okay I vented .
I had the same issue in Android 12 with my new handset except only Google didn't tell me like Samsung told you. They just did it.

jhavron said:
yup.... I wont go on a rant (which means I will...) but this, along with other compromises like this have convinced me there needs to be a minor Revolution in handsets. I mean a device created remind you of the device next to it. Unfortunately I smashed my phone a few months ago and at an inopportune time was forced to choose a new one. I left the whole table open (barring how ridiculous). I chose a pixel 4XL. There were many factors ( mostly personal preferences), but in the end I saw the writing on the wall. Nothing impressed me. A brand new phone would be painful proper rooting. This left only the devices worked over by better individuals (xda members).
And when it came down to it if the bootloader couldn't be unlocked, it was a deal-breaker.
I think the last genuine phone for the average nerd was the Nexus 6.
.... Okay I vented .
I had the same issue in Android 12 are my new handset only Google tell me like Samsung told you. They just did it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android and Samsung are a mess now. I got my 2nd new N10+ less a year ago. Both are stock running on 9 and 10. Even though I disable firmware updates/upgrades I still fight with Samsung apps like Wearables for the Buds+.
It's updates and performance zenithed about a year ago, everything since just degrades it, including the audio. I roll it back but it wants to force update. Fighting with it now, again*.
Samsung hasn't released anything near as good since the N10+, they've lost their minds. Fk em.
Android reached their zenith at 9, scoped storage sucks and isn't needed. This N10+ running on 9 has no issues other than what Samsung continues to screw with
I use whatever works and comes in handy even if it's 3 years old. That goes for hardware and firmware... I don't give a rat's arse about having the newest if it isn't a well balanced, clean running improvement.
* edit, fixed. Uninstalled all Buds and Wearables updates, reinstalled older saved versions, after firewall blocking specific update UIDs. Old UI and the sound volume/Q restored.

Agreed, both companies have lost their minds, I will probably be sane someday with a flip phone and leave all the powers that be behind soon.

Compusmurf said:
You should probably spend some time learning about Android 11 and up and the permissions. If you look, you will see this is an option YOU can control.
Don't blame Samsung for your lack of knowledge.
Start here:
Android 12 will automatically hibernate unused apps to free up space
Android 12 is introducing an app hibernation feature that removes temporary files of unused apps in order to free up space.
www.xda-developers.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely understand what your saying, I just think phone owners can spend free time if they chose to just use the phone and be cool, not need to get a huge secrets and tips book like for windows 7 and now 1 of those books for each new phones because of all the absurd changes that went along with scraping the world best os xp and note 3 in my option. Companies lost it to long ago, can't do a make over on a UI without all kinda of restrictions oh I meant goodness. So long gone are the super chill days, it's time to become a mini tech support technician when you get home from work

This is nothing malicious, it's simply an Android feature to protect you.

V0latyle said:
This is nothing malicious, it's simply an Android feature to protect you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, recent history is showing that for some things being unprotected is safer

blackhawk said:
Android and Samsung are a mess now. I got my 2nd new N10+ less a year ago. Both are stock running on 9 and 10. Even though I disable firmware updates/upgrades I still fight with Samsung apps like Wearables for the Buds+.
It's updates and performance zenithed about a year ago, everything since just degrades it, including the audio. I roll it back but it wants to force update. Fighting with it now, again*.
Samsung hasn't released anything near as good since the N10+, they've lost their minds. Fk em.
Android reached their zenith at 9, scoped storage sucks and isn't needed. This N10+ running on 9 has no issues other than what Samsung continues to screw with
I use whatever works and comes in handy even if it's 3 years old. That goes for hardware and firmware... I don't give a rat's arse about having the newest if it isn't a well balanced, clean running improvement.
* edit, fixed. Uninstalled all Buds and Wearables updates, reinstalled older saved versions, after firewall blocking specific update UIDs. Old UI and the sound volume/Q restored.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the few features of Samsung that I like is that of you keep your Samsung account and Google account sperated (not sure if this is actually necessary) and your phone is compromised you may have a 2nd chance at redemption... Samsung seems to give more hardware for the $ tho.....
But that makes you that much more of their product in my opinion....
I do miss my note pen sometimes tho

jhavron said:
One of the few features of Samsung that I like is that of you keep your Samsung account and Google account sperated (not sure if this is actually necessary) and your phone is compromised you may have a 2nd chance at redemption... Samsung seems to give more hardware for the $ tho.....
But that makes you that much more of their product in my opinion....
I do miss my note pen sometimes tho
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never set a lock on the phone and make sure I have the Google account password impossibly long, complex and etched in stone.
Find my Device is always disabled.
No social media apps on the phone, wifi always disabled.
Lol, being a Google product sucks. Zero trust in the ruling elites; they've weaponized our devices along with most everything else.
The spen is very useful when you need it. In the N10+ it just nests, protected, until it's needed. Some things can't be done easily or at all without it. Smart select rocks.