Database Info

Firmware Build only For Developers? my Demand to Google / HTC

I think being a Open Source Code and Openness in Architecture, API Google Should Ship Different Firmware for Developers, Software Builders, Codec Programmer etc.
Better for Google / T-Mobile / HTC
They can restrict Developer Device to get Back Normal Shipped Firmware.
Developer Device Activation Method can be Introduced so Once you Activate that IMEI for Developer Edition you could get only Limited Warranty from HTC for that IMEI.
Once you load Different Firmware, company may not allow you to Flash Normal Shipped / OTA Firmware signed by Different Signature.
Developer Edition of Firmware can have Test Key or Developer Key based Recovery Partition. But can not Erased the way we did it before.
Developer firmware must be only available via SDCard Method
No OTA should be given except for some killbits Urgency.
Their should be Disclaimer and Agreement for Warranty Issue
Better for Developers
Rather then Fighting for root this could be Straight Access to Device
No More Hacking and Exploits needed.
Building Firmware, API, Services, Codes which need Root Access can be Tested with Device rather then Emulator.
Customizing OS and using it for Self and Distributing it to user who can take risk may get easy Access to Mods.
Google Should Protect Recovery Image and Boot Image from being Flashed this will reduce Bricking Issue.
Please report your Comments here
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4

This won't happen. They will plainly tell you to build your own version and thats logical too. G1's version of Android is T-Mobile's, they paid for it, so it has everything that T-Mobile wants, and its for the average user who doesnt care about root etc. If you want a developer version, you can always compile it with default root access n stuff, thats the beauty of Open source.

Building Customized Firmware that's what i am saying unless you don't have root access you can not Build and Flash Customized Image. and in RC30 Release they have removed root access and telnetd.
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.

hetaldp said:
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would not say that the stopped or closed all doors for customizing. Yes they took aways root but it does not mean we wont find a new door. With hacking any device its all about finding the newer better way to get in.

If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now

Rather then sitting idle and wishing for Google to rethink and give us root access gradually is not enough we should sign the link above and suggest them for that requirement.

benmyers2941 said:
If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.

RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Five or six years seems terribly long. I know they did a lot of work on the dalvik VM but still.. I wouldn't be surprised if they had lost of lot of time in legalese and negotiation with hw maker and providers. I work in telco, although not the mobile industry and you can barely imagine the bully tactic employed by the big names to keep challengers out.. Ya don't wanna lose yar winmo 6 preferred pricing ar righ'?
Anyway, if it's true I'm even more surprised at some of the current shortcoming of the platform. Internationalization and lack of support for bluetooth comes to mind first.
But anyway, it's a young platform in terms of "days in the wild" and it's already quite good. What I'm a little bit afraid of is that T-Mo might not keep the update coming to bring new features to the phone in order to get people to upgrade their handset. We'll see.
As for developer build, Google has said that they would release Android so you could build your own device not that every device would be open.
I believe your demand should have been addressed to T-Mobile, not to Google nor HTC. Having an open device would be a tremendous benefit for Google as it would attract more qualified hobbyist developers to the Android platform. HTC probably doesn't really care either way, they're in the business of selling hardware, once you bought it they won't see any of the additional revenue stream, so if they can move ten thousand more unit because some people would like to use them as development device, I'm pretty sure they'd be for it. Assuming they don't have to support the cost of technical support for those "customized" devices.

RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.

neoobs said:
Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe... That is most peoples understanding aswell.
Android is NOT Google's property (at least that I know of). Android has been in development for 5-6 years WITHOUT Google.
Android did not get the time of day UNTILL Google joined.

Then it wasn't being developed... it was staleware that google dusted off... I understand it isn't google's software but honestly you can't build something without knowing what devices it will be on. If built 6 years ago... it would have been built for devices from 6 years ago using resistive screens, proprietary connections, and most likely an onscreen keyboard. Mobile devices have changed a lot in 5 years and that would mean android was rebuilt from the ground up, if it was made 5 years ago. I think there may have been development and ideas 5 years ago but nothing even close to a working model(alpha software)

Being based on Linux, it is already extremely flexible with regards to hardware requirements. The only real requirement I am aware of is an ARM processor > 200 mhz...
Google bought Android in August of 2005, at that point in time, the company had existed for 22 months. So definitely some design elements of the OS have existed that long.

Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?

neoobs said:
Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what I am saying. Android is specifically designed to abstract all of those things. Want to add a new method for input? Fine, make a kernel module for it... Want to add a new interface port? Fine, make a kernel module for it. The modules are provided by either the device manufacturer (depending on how they've licensed the particular technology) or by the chipset manufacturer... This is no different than how the same distribution of Linux can run on x86, ARM, PPC, & Itanium with hundreds of different chipsets, network cards, etc.
From the very beginning Google has been saying that Android will run on a wide variety of phone hardware, even going so far as saying it could run on flip phones.

Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.

neoobs said:
Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.

Google made Dalvik, and a couple of the applications, the members of the Open Handset Alliance provided the kernel level modules.
I found an article from earlier this summer that briefly goes over the timeline and what Google had in mind with this whole thing: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/16-07/ff_android?currentPage=all

quedijo said:
Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XP was built on the NT kernel along with Vista and everything else made since 2000. Although that kernel is not the same at all anymore... sure it has all the same features but has been tweaked to all heck.
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?

neoobs said:
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://source.android.com/
The emulator doesn't have to be updated. It's just QEMU with a fancy GUI. Assuming they're keeping the repo over there up to date, you should be able to check out the latest version, build the images, fire it up in the emulator, and be on your way... and if you have a rooted G1, as long as you include the proprietary stuff from HTC (kernel modules that I'm sure they can't GPL), you should be able to boot it up... which, unless I am mistaken, is exactly what JesusFreke did in the first place.

Everybody Please make Comment on this Issue with Official G1 Suggestion Thread i opened
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4
Hetal

Android rooting days are coming to an end?

Verizon and other carriers are working with Google to ban rooting phones. Data will get throttled and possibility of the phone getting banned from network coverage.
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).

NOOOOOO,
that sux and i wanted to buy a andriod soon because of the rooting.

I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever

tfn said:
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i completely agree with your first point considering I am one of those ppl! also I rooted my EVO to get better battery life....thats another reason to rooting.
i do see the carriers point of view tho.....they dont want people using the tethering workaround they gain from rooting since that is money that they are missing out on.
i should mention, tho, i am against the carriers doing this!! im just saying that i see where they are coming from

I dont think there is any blocks coming to any of the networks in the UK

This subject has already been discussed - more than once, you'll see, from the link I posted in that thread.

If this takes place, I'll be going back to Iphone.

his was an email I got from my networking team. Just wanted to inform and at the same time get a few informed views.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

tfn said:
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this is my first post, but this thread caught my eye.
the reason they don't want us rooting our phones is because if we do we can use out old phone longer and don't have to pay out he wazoo for a brand new phone. I have a Samsung Moment the last O/S that I could get was Android 2.1 Update 1 which basically rendered the Spring gps useless, and made calls and texts come in when ever they wanted, forcing me to think about a new phone, So i joined the SDX forums and rooted it installed 2.2 with the EB28 rom and so far every thing works as good as a Samsung epic just not 4 g,. which doesn't bother me since I don't video chat.
As far as I am concerned YOU paid for the, phone YOU pay the phone bill its YOURS, you should be able to do whatever you want to with it.

that realy sucks. I dont like that

I wouldn't sweat this too much.
I understand the tethering issue, and I also understand that the base is, and always will be, money. That's the whole point of any business.
Having said that, this community in itself is a market and there are people watching what we are doing and where we are going, because there's cash to be made. If we run into locked bootloaders, dead phones, crappy updates and new phones riddled with bloatware, you better believe that someone else will be ready to snatch all of us up and give us exactly what we want, if not close.
If I owned a company large enough to deliver wireless service, I'd be sitting silently with a squad of high-end 250 dollar unlocked smartphones ready for some good ol "we have your back" marketing. ...granted my wireless was on point and I got good reception.
I don't think us getting into our phones and tinkering with it's innards is ever gonna stop. It might change, yeah, but it won't stop.

damn that doesn't sound to good

even if this happens i'm pretty sure there will be workarounds..

So please explain me how that would work in the court room :
- defendent : I paid for a data plan, and now I am accused of using it
- provider : he has installed an upgraded OS on his phone, your honor !
That would be the same as switching phones (for example if I change my Hero for an unlocked Nexus S, I would be using the same OS as in my hacked Hero), while still having the contract.
I can not see how they can enforce such a thing.

I always buy SIM free phones, so they cant really get me with that as I dont ever get carrier updates.

jh71 said:
So please explain me how that would work in the court room :
- defendent : I paid for a data plan, and now I am accused of using it
- provider : he has installed an upgraded OS on his phone, your honor !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try again...
Defendant: I paid for a data plan that expressly stated that tethering is not included so I fiddled with my phone so that I could do that without paying the appropriate charges.
Network: as you can see, a clear breach of contract.
Not that it would ever reach a courtroom anyway.
waz000000 said:
I always buy SIM free phones, so they cant really get me with that as I dont ever get carrier updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's got nothing to do with it though - I have an unlocked. unbranded Motorola Defy but the bootloader is still encrypted.
Some manufacturers can and do lock down handsets that aren't tied to any one network. Motorola do it, HTC seem to be moving in that direction - only SE are taking clear steps in the opposite direction.

Let's have a go at it one more time:
Defendant :
"Your honor, android is all about innovation, and carriers are ganging up with manufacturares cuz they want more, and more, and more, but are to lazy or incapable, or lacking inspiration. I do root, but tethering might as well not even be there, as it is part of many official out of the box releases. If i root, i do it cuz some manufacturers and some carriers are incapable of offering me the google experience im locking for, and as this is a carrier dominance, i dont have a choice but get the closest device for my budget, and that delivers the closest version to that google experience, and then root it, to get the proper battery life i paid for, and get rid of bloatware, which isnt productive for my needs, as THIS DEVICE IS MINE, I OWN IT!"
Network:
We are directly against Android!!!!
,

if this happend i think hes going to loose a lot of client so i don't think thats going to happend if no root no theme change no a lot of other things no liberty so if they do that i buy an iphone ^^

hey andy...why dont u guys start investing in you own hardware... apple is pretty good at it, google would be a hit. at least a research would be more then worthed.
my, how the tables would turn in such case....

The more I read and hear this, the more I don't believe it will ever happen.

[Q] phone newbie questions

I have never owned a cell phone before (yeah, I'm one of the last three who never has), and now am wanting to buy one. My preference is Android. I have some questions about this whole space:
* I don't want a contract. Is it generally true that I can buy any unlocked phone, and a prepaid SIM from Amazon or somewhere, and use them together?
* I'm old (early 60's) and have some generational cultural differences from many (but not all) of you that grew up with and accept social networking. Specifically, I have a zero tolerance policy towards my phone leaking ANY data, under any situation, and a zero tolerance policy for any outside control of the device. That is to say, I will not accept remote updates of software, nor any software which "phones home". I will only accept a phone that is 100% under my control. This seems to create complications, even under Android. If I run a custom firmware such as CM7, is this a goal that I can reasonably achieve? Perhaps with a local firewall on the device?
* I want to use the GPS for wilderness hiking, specifically, to retrace my (approximate) path in the unlikely event I become lost. Is the onboard GPS on phones adequate for such a purpose? I don't need meter-accuracy, but 10 or 15m accuracy would be nice, along with software that would sample my position every (say) 60 seconds and overlay this on a map that MUST be stored locally on the device. I will be out of cell tower range.
* These devices can carry a lot of data, but this seems dangerous on a device that may be lost or stolen. I know there can be a numeric code to unlock the device, but that provides no real security in practice. Is it possible for me to use encryption at the block level with a filesystem on an SD card? Conceptually, I want to mount that card through an encrypted loopback device, with a timeout that will unmount it after a period of inactivity. Possible?
* Specific phones: I liked the LG2X, but it seems many people have big problems with it. I liked the Sensation, but it has a locked bootloader -> nonstarter. So I'm looking at the Mytouch 4G. How big a limitation is GSM in practice, within the continental US?
* When 802.11 is available, will I be able to use my existing VOIP provider instead of a cell network to make voice calls?
Thanks for any help that anyone might give a complete phone newbie.

Is there perhaps a more suitable forum for me to ask "hey, I've never even owned a cell phone before" type questions? If someone could point me to a better place to ask my clueless questions, that'd be wonderful.

Maybe you will buy HTC HD2?
It's a good phone for start, and it has all of the things what you need

Thanks Rafal.Sw, but that seems to be a Windows Mobile phone, and I'd prefer to stick with open source operating systems.
In any case, I'm more after information here than specific phone recommendations. Thanks for your reply though.

But you can always install android on this Phone, i have it and it's wonderful for me

The specific phone model is really not my primary question. I'm looking for information on my questions above, or failing that, a place more appropriate for novices to ask such things.
Thanks...

Research is key. Search button is your friend and essential. friendly reminder as always
Yes unlocked GSM devices are able to connect to a compatible carrier / sim card. For instance I have an unlocked GSM from att but i hate contracts and burning a hole in my pocket. So.. i went to best buy and grabbed an h2o sim kit and poppeed. It in VOILA. Service= no contract = more money. Of course there are plenty others. With different. Pre paid plans. That's just one of many i use.
Alot of these devices will work around the world ESPECIALLY an unlocked GSM device. Of course they will have to have the WORLD phone type basebands. To achieve this if traveling the world.
GPS has come along way since eclair, and is getting signifucally better all the time. However this really depends on your device and its hardware/software When you see a phone you like find the oppropriate forum and thread and learn about that device. Here on xda.
As far as security with android its great and getting better and better. They stay up to date with the latest. The biggest RISK/ ONLY common are with an OPEN all wifi access connection. Also The problem lies when someone( the user) puts bad apps or pirate apps and files in the device making it vulnerable.
To keep data safe on your phone can be achieved in a number of ways, to name a couple, numerous locks can be applied on apps files even before the device boots up, there are also apps that will wipe every thing on your device if lost or stolen by using your computer to control it. Also apps that will track your phone so you can find it
I to are very strict on the control of my device and with that there are great apps with the kind of extra protection you look for ex. Firewalls, malwate spyware blockers etc. There is no need to unmiunt an SD card. Do you take out your harddrive on your computer when not in USE? "Rhetorical "
CM7 is built AOSP from the ground up. They are in no way or have anything to do with the carrier or its original manufacture. Its totally custom build. Extremely knowledgeable developers who take pride in their work for all of us for free. This is not for your average user. These builds are still in ongoing development and not available for every device. However these builds are very stable for and a daily driver
YES YOU CAN, For VOIP calls, there are apps for that and I've used it for a couple years now, alot of devices can and have already support it, and takes a litle tinkering to get them to work. Now days the Devices coming out have VOIP already ready for setup out of the box. With easy setup
If you want the the best bang for your Buck,
Samsung Galaxy S 2. Is what i recommend. It's truly the best of the best. Along with EVO 3d. And Motorola D3
Sent from SGS Captivate CM7 or MIUI with Escapist orTKGlitch using XDA premium app.

Search button is your friend and essential
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<nod> I've done some, but there are things I can't quite find anyone discussing, like the use of GPS for wilderness hiking, or the details of block level encryption.
I agree with you 100% about contracts. I'm not sure why they're so popular. They seem more expensive overall, and less flexible.
There is no need to unmiunt an SD card. Do you take out your harddrive on your computer when not in USE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, no, but I don't carry the whole machine around in my pocket, either. Somehow the only thing I really trust to keep my data secure is encryption, but then there's this issue of how long the data stays decrypted. You have to be able to use it, but if you lose the device, no one else should be able to see it.
CM7 is built AOSP from the ground up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, which is why I'd trust it more than the carrier supplied software. I'm pretty much restricting my device choices to ones that CM7 supports, which does rule out several otherwise attractive phones.
Thanks - the Galaxy S2 does look interesting. Is it supported by CM7? Their "devices" page only lists the Galaxy S.
Thanks for the insights, rwells813!

YES, Samsung has sent a SGS2 over to an Cm7 dev. To play with. So i assume in do time it will be a supported mainline. I believe he has test builds for it already . I haven't tried them yet with mine yet. I stick with one dev. Phone at a time. My captivate is the Guinea. Pig. Good luck mate.
Sent from SGS Captivate CM7 or MIUI with Escapist orTKGlitch using XDA premium app.

Root and custom ROM support

Hey!
I have currently a Vivo NEX on order from AliExpress.
I wonder how fast (if at all) there will be a way to root the device, and most importantly: install Google Play and custom launchers on it.
A custom ROM; something stock like would also be exciting to see soon.
Another question that I have is: will I be able to use the in-display-fingerprintsensor when I install a custom launcher?
I guess that's a very noob question but I really have not much experience with that because this will be my fist phone with a fingerprintsensor at all.
Greeting from Austria!!

LOL Meister said:
Hey!
I have currently a Vivo NEX on order from AliExpress.
I wonder how fast (if at all) there will be a way to root the device, and most importantly: install Google Play and custom launchers on it.
A custom ROM; something stock like would also be exciting to see soon.
Another question that I have is: will I be able to use the in-display-fingerprintsensor when I install a custom launcher?
I guess that's a very noob question but I really have not much experience with that because this will be my fist phone with a fingerprintsensor at all.
Greeting from Austria!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root and custom roms will be available as soon as Vivo release source code and blobs, and yes you can use the fingerprint sensor on custom launchers, even if it doesn't have play store you can still install launchers and apps from an apk.

Exanneon said:
Root and custom roms will be available as soon as Vivo release source code and blobs, and yes you can use the fingerprint sensor on custom launchers, even if it doesn't have play store you can still install launchers and apps from an apk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats great news actually. I have successfully rooted and installed a custom ROM on my galaxy S5. But I am still quite new to the topic and therefore I want to ask: if some videos or websites claim that they have a way to root *any* android device: can that be true from a technical standpoint or is such a thing always scam?

LOL Meister said:
Thats great news actually. I have successfully rooted and installed a custom ROM on my galaxy S5. But I am still quite new to the topic and therefore I want to ask: if some videos or websites claim that they have a way to root *any* android device: can that be true from a technical standpoint or is such a thing always scam?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is definitely a scam, there's no way of rooting *any* phone, it's true that most phones become rootable sooner or later, but that depends on the manufacturer and those who modify the device. The thing is that technically any android phone can be rooted, but that can only be done if one first has access to a bootloader which they can send commands to, such as flashing a recovery. Apps or sites that say they can root any phone is a very deceptive way of tricking inexperienced users, based on somewhat facts.
The process of rooting a phone goes something like this:
1. Manufacturer releases software which allows a pc to communicate with the phone, therefore allowing for the pc to send commands such as flashing a recovery, sideloading a custom rom, restoring stock firmware, etc.
2. At that point, the user has complete access to their phone, just as the manufacturer would, so they can flash a recovery, through which they could flash supersu or magisk in order to root their phone, or a custom rom.
Now the thing about apps that can supposedly root a phone through the os, without it having root, is that some of them are legit, but they work in many different ways, those ways vary from each device. Apps such as kingroot (roots the phone without the need of a pc) is that they normally look for system apps which they can exploit and use as a backdoor to gain root access for the device, such apps can indeed root multiple devices, but no app can root literally any phone. This is because, if for example there was a phone that was released 15th june, 2018, and would have extremely good security, no apps that could be used as a backdoor, the app simply couldn't exploit that device. This is exactly why very new phones (such as the vivo nex) have no custom roms or root, because they're so new that no exploits have been found, and the manufacturer hasn't released software for users to root, nor have they released source code for developers to start building custom roms for them.
Sorry for the long paragraphs, hope I helped.
Moral of the story: don't trust weird apps saying they can root any device.

Exanneon said:
It is definitely a scam, there's no way of rooting *any* phone, it's true that most phones become rootable sooner or later, but that depends on the manufacturer and those who modify the device. The thing is that technically any android phone can be rooted, but that can only be done if one first has access to a bootloader which they can send commands to, such as flashing a recovery. Apps or sites that say they can root any phone is a very deceptive way of tricking inexperienced users, based on somewhat facts.
The process of rooting a phone goes something like this:
1. Manufacturer releases software which allows a pc to communicate with the phone, therefore allowing for the pc to send commands such as flashing a recovery, sideloading a custom rom, restoring stock firmware, etc.
2. At that point, the user has complete access to their phone, just as the manufacturer would, so they can flash a recovery, through which they could flash supersu or magisk in order to root their phone, or a custom rom.
Now the thing about apps that can supposedly root a phone through the os, without it having root, is that some of them are legit, but they work in many different ways, those ways vary from each device. Apps such as kingroot (roots the phone without the need of a pc) is that they normally look for system apps which they can exploit and use as a backdoor to gain root access for the device, such apps can indeed root multiple devices, but no app can root literally any phone. This is because, if for example there was a phone that was released 15th june, 2018, and would have extremely good security, no apps that could be used as a backdoor, the app simply couldn't exploit that device. This is exactly why very new phones (such as the vivo nex) have no custom roms or root, because they're so new that no exploits have been found, and the manufacturer hasn't released software for users to root, nor have they released source code for developers to start building custom roms for them.
Sorry for the long paragraphs, hope I helped.
Moral of the story: don't trust weird apps saying they can root any device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanations!
That with the bootloader makes a lot of sense to me as I work a lot with microcontrollers especially; AVRs and PICs. Some of them have a dedicated part of the FLASH where you can keep code around that runs at system startup. A bootloader. That per example lets the AVRs flashed with an Arduino Bootloader communicate with the PC without the need for a programming device!
So I won't load any itchy software on my new device haha.
An other question I have is:
Are there any disadvantages of having a Chinese ROM other than having to install all Google services manually?

LOL Meister said:
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanations!
That with the bootloader makes a lot of sense to me as I work a lot with microcontrollers especially; AVRs and PICs. Some of them have a dedicated part of the FLASH where you can keep code around that runs at system startup. A bootloader. That per example lets the AVRs flashed with an Arduino Bootloader communicate with the PC without the need for a programming device!
So I won't load any itchy software on my new device haha.
An other question I have is:
Are there any disadvantages of having a Chinese ROM other than having to install all Google services manually?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well most of the time stock android is always faster and more stable, be it touchwiz, miui, flyme. Touchwiz for example uses very high resolution icons for the ui, which take up more ram (and make the rom size much bigger, therefore sacrificing internal memory) making the phone more sluggish. Basically roms that aren't stock always have some element to them which is likely to make them slower, or have more bugs, possibly.
Because how can you have a better android rom than pure android? Building upon it is always a good thing, but changing it completely usually results in a not so good experience. These sort of things certainly don't apply to what oneplus do with oxygen os and whatever the stock rom is for motorola phones.

As much I fall in love with this phone but VIVO is totally developer unfriendly.
Due to unavailability of kernel sources third party developers couldn't build any custom aftermarket ROM's.
It’s the opposite from what OnePlus offer.
I will wait 6-9 months we will see many other OEM building same design and feature 3d fingerprint reader under the screen and most important developer friendly.
Even Samsung device it’s very very easy rooting and installing twrp and has plenty of development support with custom rom,tweaks and mod.
This Funtouch OS out of the box Vivo phones is totally not acceptable and DOA to me.
It’s a shame such wonderful device with really bad and closed software.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

paatha13 said:
As much I fall in love with this phone but VIVO is totally developer unfriendly.
Due to unavailability of kernel sources third party developers couldn't build any custom aftermarket ROM's.
It’s the opposite from what OnePlus offer.
It’s a shame such wonderful device with really bad and closed software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well dammit then. I came here to check about this, potential availabilty of any custom roms (linegae / RR)
I'm gonna check about others vivo. Thanks for warning

I think I'm sort of hijacking the thread but it's on topic so should be ok ... I hope.
I've never bought a Chinese phone, but this year I will be getting my first Chinese Android device (Vivo or not).
I've rooted phones in the past so not worried about it but is it required to get Google Play Store and framework on the device? Basically I'm asking how does one make this Chinese phone into a Westernized one.

01alim said:
I think I'm sort of hijacking the thread but it's on topic so should be ok ... I hope.
I've never bought a Chinese phone, but this year I will be getting my first Chinese Android device (Vivo or not).
I've rooted phones in the past so not worried about it but is it required to get Google Play Store and framework on the device? Basically I'm asking how does one make this Chinese phone into a Westernized one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically you cann install the playstore through the gmail hack. You install gmail via the included chinese store app. Then it will automatically load playstore on the device.
If you pick your seller with care they will have a semi western rom on the phone. I (I posted the link to the seller in the where to buy thread) ordered my vivo nex from a seller who does that. They will have english language, playsore gmail, maps youtube etc preinstalled.
Despite the not open software of the nex just because its sheer popularity there will be custom roms and hacks. You can bet on that! Just not as many of corse.

so not open software is final ?
It's one of many deciding factor for me.

ayamgoreng said:
so not open software is final ?
It's one of many deciding factor for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess noone can say for 100% sure because the phone will start selling just tomorrow. But people with vivo expreince have claimed that the software on vivo phones is generally not very developer friendly.
Even if there won't be custom ROMs I can still have a custom launcher on it.

ayamgoreng said:
so not open software is final ?
It's one of many deciding factor for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our only hope is for wider spread selling across globe and not only Asia that maximaze possibilities.
As more and more users across globe getting know Vivo then its more possible.
Don't forget Vivo is major sponcored of World Cup 2018 that's major worldwide athletic event and think Vivo has ambition to sell to western world some time(not to far hope)

LOL Meister said:
Basically you cann install the playstore through the gmail hack. You install gmail via the included chinese store app. Then it will automatically load playstore on the device.
If you pick your seller with care they will have a semi western rom on the phone. I (I posted the link to the seller in the where to buy thread) ordered my vivo nex from a seller who does that. They will have english language, playsore gmail, maps youtube etc preinstalled.
Despite the not open software of the nex just because its sheer popularity there will be custom roms and hacks. You can bet on that! Just not as many of corse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.
So what's the things we are missing using a semi westernised ROM over a full western ROM?
How are sellers able to get custom ROMs on the phone so early? (Or are they not custom ROMs?).

01alim said:
Thank you.
So what's the things we are missing using a semi westernised ROM over a full western ROM?
How are sellers able to get custom ROMs on the phone so early? (Or are they not custom ROMs?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they might have some contracts with Vivo...
Even more proof of that if you look on AliExpress they charge way premium for the devices. I paid 800€ on the 8G 128G version!
I think that there are no disadvantages besides anything regarding their AI tech which will only understand Chinese I think.
Once I am not planning to use that, that's no problem. People claim that the funtouch OS is somewhat unstable but I will test that for myself. The seller I ordered from claims that I will be able to receive over the air updates so they will surely patch things over time.
Remember that if you do not like their OS you can still install a launcher from playstore.
But if any of that holds true, I will see when my phone arrives. The seller claims that they will ship it out over the next 7 days per DHL.
I will update here on my experience, installing launchers, if playstore is there or not etc.

LOL Meister said:
Basically you cann install the playstore through the gmail hack. You install gmail via the included chinese store app. Then it will automatically load playstore on the device.
If you pick your seller with care they will have a semi western rom on the phone. I (I posted the link to the seller in the where to buy thread) ordered my vivo nex from a seller who does that. They will have english language, playsore gmail, maps youtube etc preinstalled.
Despite the not open software of the nex just because its sheer popularity there will be custom roms and hacks. You can bet on that! Just not as many of corse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
will the gmail hack enable google services like Calender and contact sync also??

When you open the developer options, your phone will keep warning on status bar???

野比君 said:
When you open the developer options, your phone will keep warning on status bar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious??
Btw, do you know if you can eliminate the chinese software that comes pre-installed? And can you configurate everything you need as if it were a "normal western android"? (contacts, calendar sync, emails, etc)

LOL Meister said:
Hey!
I have currently a Vivo NEX on order from AliExpress.
I wonder how fast (if at all) there will be a way to root the device, and most importantly: install Google Play and custom launchers on it.
A custom ROM; something stock like would also be exciting to see soon.
Another question that I have is: will I be able to use the in-display-fingerprintsensor when I install a custom launcher?
I guess that's a very noob question but I really have not much experience with that because this will be my fist phone with a fingerprintsensor at all.
Greeting from Austria!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the Vivo Nex now. Can't use third party launcher unless you sign up for a vivo account which can only be done with a China phone number. This is a new development as I was able to get nova on vivo x21 without account.
Really annoying.

radioraheem2 said:
I have the Vivo Nex now. Can't use third party launcher unless you sign up for a vivo account which can only be done with a China phone number. This is a new development as I was able to get nova on vivo x21 without account.
Really annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for informing! I really hope that someone finds a workaround soon!
Just a note at the side: I don't know about stability but even though the Vivo OS looks a lot like iOS especially for larger phones like that things like the quick draw from the bottom are quite nice features.
DrG0nz0 said:
Are you serious??
Btw, do you know if you can eliminate the chinese software that comes pre-installed? And can you configurate everything you need as if it were a "normal western android"? (contacts, calendar sync, emails, etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also interested in this one, since the phone is available now! Mine will take some time in shipping though.

Why Android device manufacturers should not lock the bootloaders of their phones

I had to write an essay for a class, and I wanted to post it here. Please correct me on anything I'm wrong on, or recommend anything I should add. But please be nice.
Samsung and LG have locked the bootloader - the part of the phone that checks the phone to make sure the code has not been modified or corrupted - almost since the beginning of android smartphone devices. This prevents people who want to modify their phones or write their own code for them from doing so. From the beginning, it was a wise move. Google had not implemented any security protocols like this in the early days of Android, and this kept people’s data safe and secure. The problem now is that Google has implemented security protocols now yet Samsung and LG still lock their phones down - hard. Even a device as old as the Galaxy Note III, about a 5 year old device, Still cannot be modified or changed. People have been trying for years. The issue now is that Samsung and LG are now overdoing it. They do not need that much security in this respect.
Phone manufacturers should not lock their phones bootloader for two reasons, It shortens product life, and it reduces security. Locking bootloaders shorten product life.
If Samsung or LG lock their bootloaders, it does not allow developers to create updates for that phone. If the bootloaders were unlocked, then developers could take the latest android versions on their own time and create updated versions of Android that LG or Samsung do not want to hassle with. This is good, as security updates, new features, and software improvements could be integrated into these custom versions of Android, allowing consumers to add features and tweaks to their phones that would otherwise be unavailable. This is a great extension of the product life, adding years to the operation time. This has already been proven on multiple handsets, for example, the Nexus series of phones. They have been discontinued and unsupported for nearly 3 years, but they still can be upgraded to the latest android version.
The second reason that Android phones should not be locked is it reduces security. The way Google has the unlocking procedure set up on their phones is you first have to understand how to reboot your phone to fastboot mode, which quickly reduces the number of people who could break their phone, then you have to install the fastboot client on your computer, then you have to run the “fastboot oem-unlock” command to unlock the phone. This also wipes all data off the phone, making it act like it is brand new, to protect whatever data is on the phone. One more step is also implemented, if a Google account was signed into the device, the phone remembers that and during the setup process it will lock you out until you enter the credentials of the previous account. This is an incredibly secure process, using a hardware implemented chip on the board, meaning it is physically impossible to break past, giving your data and phone a very tight security. Where phones are now, however, is not secure. The phone I use every day is an LG V20, which you can hack very easily, all you have to do is plug the phone into a computer and run a script I downloaded of the internet. I wanted my phone modded, so it is my problem if the phone breaks. That process is extremely easy. It also did not clear ANY of my data. I also could have deleted the password, allowing me access to all of the data on my phone. This is incredibly insecure, as you can probably see. The phone manufacturers should use Google’s method of locking, as then you do not have hundreds of people working to break the security of a phone, they already have what they want, an unlocked bootloader.
These two problems with locking bootloaders, or more specifically not letting us unlock bootloaders can be catastrophic to the safety of your data. The shortened product life means you keep having to move your data every time you upgrade your phone, and the fact that most of the workarounds for locking bootloaders decrease security drastically, makes allowing us to unlock bootloaders a very beneficial and secure design for new android phones from manufacturers. They should listen to us and give us what we want.​
That's it. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Sadly I think we are getting near the end of bootloader unlocking and rooting the next few years. With so many handsets being released so fast. Android finally putting customizations in people want...the days of great Roms that are maintained are fading fast.
Since HTC has gone down the toilet, great Roms like Viper and LeeDroid are gone since they cant maintain so many different platforms since HTC phones are just run of the mill garbage now.
Hope I'm wrong, but I rarely have a desire except for a kernel and a few minor things that requiring rooting personally. Every custom Roms I've tried for OP something that is critical and basic doest work and I end up back on the Beta and now Q again. As a Verizon customer as well, this adds to the problem.
And then companies like Samsung have pulled an Apple so bootloader unlocking or rooting makes your phone whatever they decide it should be, and void your warranty.
Sorry mods, off topic. Been around a long time and did WinMo dev 10yrs ago on here...we know how that ended....haha

Android is an operating system based on Linux. Linux is distributed under the GNU GPL v2 License. The GPL v2 grants some rights to the user, in particular requesting source code and/or being able to modify a program licensed under it.
Even tho there has been an idea of license v3 because of some controversies, Still, it is not possible for any manufacturer TOS (terms of service) and EULA (end user license agreement) to negate the rights guaranteed by GNU GPL (general public license), as that would be a GPL violation on the part of the manufacturer, who'd lose the right to use the Linux kernel.
All I'm saying is any android device manufacturer is obligated to provide you with a way to unlock bootloader, you just have to demand it the correct way. They can't possibly deny your demand.

They'll lock phones more and more because it helps the security state to keep access to your data.
Google and most tech companies are pretty much part of the intelligence complex and serve the state oligarchy as we have seen with censorship of search results and social media.
I remember before this pandemic, it was not hard to find information about treatments and health. Nowadays, everything is focused on "official sources" like the government agencies that serve big pharma, big war, etc.