I had to write an essay for a class, and I wanted to post it here. Please correct me on anything I'm wrong on, or recommend anything I should add. But please be nice.
Samsung and LG have locked the bootloader - the part of the phone that checks the phone to make sure the code has not been modified or corrupted - almost since the beginning of android smartphone devices. This prevents people who want to modify their phones or write their own code for them from doing so. From the beginning, it was a wise move. Google had not implemented any security protocols like this in the early days of Android, and this kept people’s data safe and secure. The problem now is that Google has implemented security protocols now yet Samsung and LG still lock their phones down - hard. Even a device as old as the Galaxy Note III, about a 5 year old device, Still cannot be modified or changed. People have been trying for years. The issue now is that Samsung and LG are now overdoing it. They do not need that much security in this respect.
Phone manufacturers should not lock their phones bootloader for two reasons, It shortens product life, and it reduces security. Locking bootloaders shorten product life.
If Samsung or LG lock their bootloaders, it does not allow developers to create updates for that phone. If the bootloaders were unlocked, then developers could take the latest android versions on their own time and create updated versions of Android that LG or Samsung do not want to hassle with. This is good, as security updates, new features, and software improvements could be integrated into these custom versions of Android, allowing consumers to add features and tweaks to their phones that would otherwise be unavailable. This is a great extension of the product life, adding years to the operation time. This has already been proven on multiple handsets, for example, the Nexus series of phones. They have been discontinued and unsupported for nearly 3 years, but they still can be upgraded to the latest android version.
The second reason that Android phones should not be locked is it reduces security. The way Google has the unlocking procedure set up on their phones is you first have to understand how to reboot your phone to fastboot mode, which quickly reduces the number of people who could break their phone, then you have to install the fastboot client on your computer, then you have to run the “fastboot oem-unlock” command to unlock the phone. This also wipes all data off the phone, making it act like it is brand new, to protect whatever data is on the phone. One more step is also implemented, if a Google account was signed into the device, the phone remembers that and during the setup process it will lock you out until you enter the credentials of the previous account. This is an incredibly secure process, using a hardware implemented chip on the board, meaning it is physically impossible to break past, giving your data and phone a very tight security. Where phones are now, however, is not secure. The phone I use every day is an LG V20, which you can hack very easily, all you have to do is plug the phone into a computer and run a script I downloaded of the internet. I wanted my phone modded, so it is my problem if the phone breaks. That process is extremely easy. It also did not clear ANY of my data. I also could have deleted the password, allowing me access to all of the data on my phone. This is incredibly insecure, as you can probably see. The phone manufacturers should use Google’s method of locking, as then you do not have hundreds of people working to break the security of a phone, they already have what they want, an unlocked bootloader.
These two problems with locking bootloaders, or more specifically not letting us unlock bootloaders can be catastrophic to the safety of your data. The shortened product life means you keep having to move your data every time you upgrade your phone, and the fact that most of the workarounds for locking bootloaders decrease security drastically, makes allowing us to unlock bootloaders a very beneficial and secure design for new android phones from manufacturers. They should listen to us and give us what we want.
That's it. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Sadly I think we are getting near the end of bootloader unlocking and rooting the next few years. With so many handsets being released so fast. Android finally putting customizations in people want...the days of great Roms that are maintained are fading fast.
Since HTC has gone down the toilet, great Roms like Viper and LeeDroid are gone since they cant maintain so many different platforms since HTC phones are just run of the mill garbage now.
Hope I'm wrong, but I rarely have a desire except for a kernel and a few minor things that requiring rooting personally. Every custom Roms I've tried for OP something that is critical and basic doest work and I end up back on the Beta and now Q again. As a Verizon customer as well, this adds to the problem.
And then companies like Samsung have pulled an Apple so bootloader unlocking or rooting makes your phone whatever they decide it should be, and void your warranty.
Sorry mods, off topic. Been around a long time and did WinMo dev 10yrs ago on here...we know how that ended....haha
Android is an operating system based on Linux. Linux is distributed under the GNU GPL v2 License. The GPL v2 grants some rights to the user, in particular requesting source code and/or being able to modify a program licensed under it.
Even tho there has been an idea of license v3 because of some controversies, Still, it is not possible for any manufacturer TOS (terms of service) and EULA (end user license agreement) to negate the rights guaranteed by GNU GPL (general public license), as that would be a GPL violation on the part of the manufacturer, who'd lose the right to use the Linux kernel.
All I'm saying is any android device manufacturer is obligated to provide you with a way to unlock bootloader, you just have to demand it the correct way. They can't possibly deny your demand.
They'll lock phones more and more because it helps the security state to keep access to your data.
Google and most tech companies are pretty much part of the intelligence complex and serve the state oligarchy as we have seen with censorship of search results and social media.
I remember before this pandemic, it was not hard to find information about treatments and health. Nowadays, everything is focused on "official sources" like the government agencies that serve big pharma, big war, etc.
Related
I think being a Open Source Code and Openness in Architecture, API Google Should Ship Different Firmware for Developers, Software Builders, Codec Programmer etc.
Better for Google / T-Mobile / HTC
They can restrict Developer Device to get Back Normal Shipped Firmware.
Developer Device Activation Method can be Introduced so Once you Activate that IMEI for Developer Edition you could get only Limited Warranty from HTC for that IMEI.
Once you load Different Firmware, company may not allow you to Flash Normal Shipped / OTA Firmware signed by Different Signature.
Developer Edition of Firmware can have Test Key or Developer Key based Recovery Partition. But can not Erased the way we did it before.
Developer firmware must be only available via SDCard Method
No OTA should be given except for some killbits Urgency.
Their should be Disclaimer and Agreement for Warranty Issue
Better for Developers
Rather then Fighting for root this could be Straight Access to Device
No More Hacking and Exploits needed.
Building Firmware, API, Services, Codes which need Root Access can be Tested with Device rather then Emulator.
Customizing OS and using it for Self and Distributing it to user who can take risk may get easy Access to Mods.
Google Should Protect Recovery Image and Boot Image from being Flashed this will reduce Bricking Issue.
Please report your Comments here
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4
This won't happen. They will plainly tell you to build your own version and thats logical too. G1's version of Android is T-Mobile's, they paid for it, so it has everything that T-Mobile wants, and its for the average user who doesnt care about root etc. If you want a developer version, you can always compile it with default root access n stuff, thats the beauty of Open source.
Building Customized Firmware that's what i am saying unless you don't have root access you can not Build and Flash Customized Image. and in RC30 Release they have removed root access and telnetd.
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.
hetaldp said:
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.
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I would not say that the stopped or closed all doors for customizing. Yes they took aways root but it does not mean we wont find a new door. With hacking any device its all about finding the newer better way to get in.
If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now
Rather then sitting idle and wishing for Google to rethink and give us root access gradually is not enough we should sign the link above and suggest them for that requirement.
benmyers2941 said:
If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now
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Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
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Five or six years seems terribly long. I know they did a lot of work on the dalvik VM but still.. I wouldn't be surprised if they had lost of lot of time in legalese and negotiation with hw maker and providers. I work in telco, although not the mobile industry and you can barely imagine the bully tactic employed by the big names to keep challengers out.. Ya don't wanna lose yar winmo 6 preferred pricing ar righ'?
Anyway, if it's true I'm even more surprised at some of the current shortcoming of the platform. Internationalization and lack of support for bluetooth comes to mind first.
But anyway, it's a young platform in terms of "days in the wild" and it's already quite good. What I'm a little bit afraid of is that T-Mo might not keep the update coming to bring new features to the phone in order to get people to upgrade their handset. We'll see.
As for developer build, Google has said that they would release Android so you could build your own device not that every device would be open.
I believe your demand should have been addressed to T-Mobile, not to Google nor HTC. Having an open device would be a tremendous benefit for Google as it would attract more qualified hobbyist developers to the Android platform. HTC probably doesn't really care either way, they're in the business of selling hardware, once you bought it they won't see any of the additional revenue stream, so if they can move ten thousand more unit because some people would like to use them as development device, I'm pretty sure they'd be for it. Assuming they don't have to support the cost of technical support for those "customized" devices.
RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
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Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.
neoobs said:
Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.
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Hehe... That is most peoples understanding aswell.
Android is NOT Google's property (at least that I know of). Android has been in development for 5-6 years WITHOUT Google.
Android did not get the time of day UNTILL Google joined.
Then it wasn't being developed... it was staleware that google dusted off... I understand it isn't google's software but honestly you can't build something without knowing what devices it will be on. If built 6 years ago... it would have been built for devices from 6 years ago using resistive screens, proprietary connections, and most likely an onscreen keyboard. Mobile devices have changed a lot in 5 years and that would mean android was rebuilt from the ground up, if it was made 5 years ago. I think there may have been development and ideas 5 years ago but nothing even close to a working model(alpha software)
Being based on Linux, it is already extremely flexible with regards to hardware requirements. The only real requirement I am aware of is an ARM processor > 200 mhz...
Google bought Android in August of 2005, at that point in time, the company had existed for 22 months. So definitely some design elements of the OS have existed that long.
Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?
neoobs said:
Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?
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That is what I am saying. Android is specifically designed to abstract all of those things. Want to add a new method for input? Fine, make a kernel module for it... Want to add a new interface port? Fine, make a kernel module for it. The modules are provided by either the device manufacturer (depending on how they've licensed the particular technology) or by the chipset manufacturer... This is no different than how the same distribution of Linux can run on x86, ARM, PPC, & Itanium with hundreds of different chipsets, network cards, etc.
From the very beginning Google has been saying that Android will run on a wide variety of phone hardware, even going so far as saying it could run on flip phones.
Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.
neoobs said:
Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.
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Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.
Google made Dalvik, and a couple of the applications, the members of the Open Handset Alliance provided the kernel level modules.
I found an article from earlier this summer that briefly goes over the timeline and what Google had in mind with this whole thing: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/16-07/ff_android?currentPage=all
quedijo said:
Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.
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XP was built on the NT kernel along with Vista and everything else made since 2000. Although that kernel is not the same at all anymore... sure it has all the same features but has been tweaked to all heck.
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?
neoobs said:
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?
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http://source.android.com/
The emulator doesn't have to be updated. It's just QEMU with a fancy GUI. Assuming they're keeping the repo over there up to date, you should be able to check out the latest version, build the images, fire it up in the emulator, and be on your way... and if you have a rooted G1, as long as you include the proprietary stuff from HTC (kernel modules that I'm sure they can't GPL), you should be able to boot it up... which, unless I am mistaken, is exactly what JesusFreke did in the first place.
Everybody Please make Comment on this Issue with Official G1 Suggestion Thread i opened
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4
Hetal
Taken via Rogers Redboard Blog http://redboard.rogers.com/2010/redboard’s-faaq-frequently-asked-android-questions/
Android, one of the newest – and hottest – mobile operating systems out there today is also one of the most-talked about topics here on RedBoard. One report predicts more than 50 Android-powered devices will launch this year — up from 10 in 2009.
We’re big fans of Android at Rogers. We were the first in Canada to carry an Android-powered device and have this country’s largest selection of Android devices such as the HTC Dream, HTC Magic, LG Eve, Samsung Galaxy Spica and Google’s Nexus One with even more Android devices on the way, including the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10.
We’re working hard to have real conversations about Android whenever possible – both online and in person – and thought it would be useful to answer some questions submitted by you, here on RedBoard.
1. Why should I care about Android?
Android is the operating system (OS) created by Google with which you can run programs on your smartphone. It is “open source” software, meaning that while Google has created it, other software developers – no matter their size – can modify the system or create add-on software programs that run on the OS called “apps.” The open-source aspect of the OS is driving many gadget-hungry consumers to Android-powered devices, causing handset makers such as Sony, HTC and LG to take notice and use the OS to power their products.
2. Why does it matter which version of Android I have?
The newer the version, the newer the features and functionality you can have. Just like how some software programs are written for Windows XP or Windows 7, newer Android-based apps – such as voice search or live wallpapers — are written for the newest Android OS, version 2.1. As the first to bring Android to Canada, we were also the first to learn just how much OS upgrades mean to our customers. This was a new challenge that we hadn’t dealt with before. As such, Rogers is working with handset manufactures to ensure an OS upgrade path on all all future devices.
3. Why does “rooting” an Android device void its warranty?
Rooting is when you wipe your handset clean of its existing operating system and install a new version. The problem with rooting is that handset manufacturers install and customize the OS to work specifically with their device so clearing it may make some features and functionality not work correctly. Furthermore, all handsets sold by Rogers are verified to work on our network before giving them to customers. In turn, it’s impossible for us to troubleshoot or provide technical assistance on a device that is no longer in line with that verification. That, in a nutshell, is why rooting voids the warranty of Rogers-purchased devices.
4. What sorts of things can I do with an Android phone — and what’s different from other smartphones?
Android phones aren’t for everybody. Some customers swear by their iPhone, BlackBerry or other smartphone. But here are some of the differences that will help you determine if Android is right for you:
The ease of personalization of Android phones – from colours to fonts to widgets.
The seamless integration with Google’s wide array of products such as Gmail, contacts, calendar, Picasa and maps. If you use your Gmail account on your computer to store important information, you’ll have the exact same access on the go.
Then, there are the apps. The open source community has embraced Android and as such, there are thousands of applications for download through the Android Market.
5. Are there places online that I can get tips for using Android to its fullest?
Not surprisingly, Google has a very thorough website dedicated to Android at http://www.android.com. There are also forums and blogs dedicated to Android, which you can find via an online search.
6. Does Rogers have any custom applications for my Android phone?
We recently launched the My Account app, which provides secure, 24/7 access to your Wireless accounts to view your balance, make payments as well as check airtime, messaging and data usage. It also lets you pay your bill right from your phone. Rogers SportsNet also has an app for getting the latest scores and sports news. While we can’t discuss plans right now for competitive reasons, we will be rolling out even more custom apps for Rogers customers in the near future.
7. How does Rogers define its commitment to the android community?
We understand that for Android users, the smartphone is more than just a device, it’s an extension of who they are. We’re listening to members of the Android community, and engaging with them (online and in person) to truly understand their wants and needs. That’s not limited to just users of the devices. We’re also working with software developers to ensure Rogers Android users have the best possible customer experience.
What kind of phone do you have? Would you consider an Android phone as your next device?
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Does not seem like they have a clue what rooting is.
Szadzik said:
Does not seem like they have a clue what rooting is.
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Click to collapse
Why? They have explained their point of view well and actually they're right. They can't be responsible for issues on rooted devices, because these issues may be caused by system customizations done by 3rd party. This is absolutely logical.
You can root your phone without actually changing the original OS. They're talking about not supporting various custom firmware, which is different from rooting.
Although with Rooting, you can make core changes that could effect functionality... But like any OS, I don't know if it really matters. I've cooked all of my Windows OS's on a range of devices and still always got warranty exchanges if needed. Just flash a stock firmware and call it a day.
player911 said:
You can root your phone without actually changing the original OS. They're talking about not supporting various custom firmware, which is different from rooting.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, but you don't root to not change anything, right? And they won't compare md5 of every file to see, whether you have changed somethin' or not. They don't give root to people just to be sure, that you have exactly what they have installed to you. If you have rooted, then they lose this sureness.
player911 said:
Although with Rooting, you can make core changes that could effect functionality... But like any OS, I don't know if it really matters. I've cooked all of my Windows OS's on a range of devices and still always got warranty exchanges if needed. Just flash a stock firmware and call it a day.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I think it would be nice if they would just erase all your data and install stock system. Then they would not waste too much of their time, but would be helpful.
Ahh and there is one more thing: when you flash roms, you risk hardware failure, especially if you aren't careful. It would not make any sense, if they would be responsible for such situation.
Rogers clearly does not have a clue what rooting is - what Rogers has described is installing a custom rom.
Rooting is not the same act as installing a custom rom - it's just giving yourself root access in the operating system.
Granted, that increases the amount of power the user has over the operating system - and honestly, I prefer that rooting be a little harder to do than just a one-click setup.
My reasoning behind that is simple - with great power, comes great responsibility.
Unfortunately, responsibility is a foreign concept to most consumers, especially when in over their heads trying to alter anything 'behind the scenes'.
That said, I can see why service providers would be disinclined to deal with the many problems that could arise due to root access.
Brut.all said:
Why? They have explained their point of view well and actually they're right. They can't be responsible for issues on rooted devices, because these issues may be caused by system customizations done by 3rd party. This is absolutely logical.
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As pointed out below Rogers explained using custom ROMs and not rooting. I have root and have not installed a custom ROM. I installed an overclocking app instead - does this mean my warranty has not been voided? According to Rogers it would not be.
This part made me laugh
Furthermore, all handsets sold by Rogers are verified to work on our network before giving them to customers
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Oh yes we've seen that with the whole E911 patch fiasco that ensued with the "verified" rom from Rogers.
Szadzik said:
As pointed out below Rogers explained using custom ROMs and not rooting. I have root and have not installed a custom ROM. I installed an overclocking app instead - does this mean my warranty has not been voided? According to Rogers it would not be.
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Click to collapse
As I said:
Brut.all said:
And they won't compare md5 of every file to see, whether you have changed somethin' or not. They don't give root to people just to be sure, that you have exactly what they have installed to you. If you have rooted, then they lose this sureness.
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Click to collapse
You can't have a gun without a license even if you don't use it, but just like to have it. No one will waste his time to check, what you actually do with this gun.
And this a reason, why such point of view *is some kind of standard* in software world. We support users of our software, but if you modified something in it, then we won't even look into your problem - go and fix it by yourself, have luck.
Even with custom rom, if flashing back the original rom can still prove that same feature still fails, the warranty is not considered void, it could be a hardware problem.
Some providers do not know what they are selling and what they are providing.
Nomal people use the mass on top to think and the gap on top to speak, but unfortunately, some chooses to use the mass at the "bottom" to "think" and the gap "below" to "talk".
Verizon and other carriers are working with Google to ban rooting phones. Data will get throttled and possibility of the phone getting banned from network coverage.
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
NOOOOOO,
that sux and i wanted to buy a andriod soon because of the rooting.
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
tfn said:
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
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Click to collapse
i completely agree with your first point considering I am one of those ppl! also I rooted my EVO to get better battery life....thats another reason to rooting.
i do see the carriers point of view tho.....they dont want people using the tethering workaround they gain from rooting since that is money that they are missing out on.
i should mention, tho, i am against the carriers doing this!! im just saying that i see where they are coming from
I dont think there is any blocks coming to any of the networks in the UK
This subject has already been discussed - more than once, you'll see, from the link I posted in that thread.
If this takes place, I'll be going back to Iphone.
his was an email I got from my networking team. Just wanted to inform and at the same time get a few informed views.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
tfn said:
I wouldn't see it as a threat the reason being :
Majority of people root they phones just to get the better version of the android software which they would have not got otherwise due to the companies not releasing the updated software so obviously the companies wont bother to send the so called update to this old phones anyway.
Secondly Google seems to trying to close the gap on fragmentation in the android as most phones were updated to the Eclair version. so I believe most of the phones of 2010 will eventually get the Gingerbread release depending on the carrier
and last of all there will always be great softwares released and some one out there will come with a hack or whatever
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Click to collapse
I know this is my first post, but this thread caught my eye.
the reason they don't want us rooting our phones is because if we do we can use out old phone longer and don't have to pay out he wazoo for a brand new phone. I have a Samsung Moment the last O/S that I could get was Android 2.1 Update 1 which basically rendered the Spring gps useless, and made calls and texts come in when ever they wanted, forcing me to think about a new phone, So i joined the SDX forums and rooted it installed 2.2 with the EB28 rom and so far every thing works as good as a Samsung epic just not 4 g,. which doesn't bother me since I don't video chat.
As far as I am concerned YOU paid for the, phone YOU pay the phone bill its YOURS, you should be able to do whatever you want to with it.
that realy sucks. I dont like that
I wouldn't sweat this too much.
I understand the tethering issue, and I also understand that the base is, and always will be, money. That's the whole point of any business.
Having said that, this community in itself is a market and there are people watching what we are doing and where we are going, because there's cash to be made. If we run into locked bootloaders, dead phones, crappy updates and new phones riddled with bloatware, you better believe that someone else will be ready to snatch all of us up and give us exactly what we want, if not close.
If I owned a company large enough to deliver wireless service, I'd be sitting silently with a squad of high-end 250 dollar unlocked smartphones ready for some good ol "we have your back" marketing. ...granted my wireless was on point and I got good reception.
I don't think us getting into our phones and tinkering with it's innards is ever gonna stop. It might change, yeah, but it won't stop.
damn that doesn't sound to good
even if this happens i'm pretty sure there will be workarounds..
So please explain me how that would work in the court room :
- defendent : I paid for a data plan, and now I am accused of using it
- provider : he has installed an upgraded OS on his phone, your honor !
That would be the same as switching phones (for example if I change my Hero for an unlocked Nexus S, I would be using the same OS as in my hacked Hero), while still having the contract.
I can not see how they can enforce such a thing.
I always buy SIM free phones, so they cant really get me with that as I dont ever get carrier updates.
jh71 said:
So please explain me how that would work in the court room :
- defendent : I paid for a data plan, and now I am accused of using it
- provider : he has installed an upgraded OS on his phone, your honor !
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Try again...
Defendant: I paid for a data plan that expressly stated that tethering is not included so I fiddled with my phone so that I could do that without paying the appropriate charges.
Network: as you can see, a clear breach of contract.
Not that it would ever reach a courtroom anyway.
waz000000 said:
I always buy SIM free phones, so they cant really get me with that as I dont ever get carrier updates.
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That's got nothing to do with it though - I have an unlocked. unbranded Motorola Defy but the bootloader is still encrypted.
Some manufacturers can and do lock down handsets that aren't tied to any one network. Motorola do it, HTC seem to be moving in that direction - only SE are taking clear steps in the opposite direction.
Let's have a go at it one more time:
Defendant :
"Your honor, android is all about innovation, and carriers are ganging up with manufacturares cuz they want more, and more, and more, but are to lazy or incapable, or lacking inspiration. I do root, but tethering might as well not even be there, as it is part of many official out of the box releases. If i root, i do it cuz some manufacturers and some carriers are incapable of offering me the google experience im locking for, and as this is a carrier dominance, i dont have a choice but get the closest device for my budget, and that delivers the closest version to that google experience, and then root it, to get the proper battery life i paid for, and get rid of bloatware, which isnt productive for my needs, as THIS DEVICE IS MINE, I OWN IT!"
Network:
We are directly against Android!!!!
,
if this happend i think hes going to loose a lot of client so i don't think thats going to happend if no root no theme change no a lot of other things no liberty so if they do that i buy an iphone ^^
hey andy...why dont u guys start investing in you own hardware... apple is pretty good at it, google would be a hit. at least a research would be more then worthed.
my, how the tables would turn in such case....
The more I read and hear this, the more I don't believe it will ever happen.
I cannot believe the state of JB. Its beta software at best, IMHO.
Example, when typing in a gmail body, if you backspace, the cursor loses its position in the text. And there are issues with inserting new paragraphs and such. These are elementary programming bugs. How long did they test JB before they pushed it to the servers ?
Someone needs to push out an upgrade for JB ASAP. I suspect that ASUS pushed JB out prematurely to capture better Christmas sales. If they don't issue an update its going to backfire on them.
Is there an Android repository somewhere that has global updates, not just ASUS updates ?
I'm new to the whole Android scene. I'm an experienced Linux user.
Why is Android not rooted from the get go ?
Why does hardware come locked down ?
I think Android would be a lot better OS if Google et al opened things up and made it easier for developers to contribute to it, especially prior to the major releases.
Companies want to sell devices. Why do they need to lock the OS to the device ? They already have the OS locked to the device by only supplying proprietary drivers to the OS of their liking. I understand that you might get users harming the hardware by doing illegal things, turning up the cell radio transmitter power, anyone ? But short of that, how is a smart phone different from a PC or laptop where you can easily do what you want with the OS ?
I think JB would be a better product if it was more open and everyday people contributed to its development. Imagine how much better it would be if it followed the Fedora development process whereby a few rcs were released prior to putting it into "stable".
And we could spend our time logging and fixing bugs instead of fooling around with figuring out to unlock, root and flash devices. It would be a win-win for everyone. What Google is doing now is akin to if Fedora (Ubuntu) closed their development process.
I think that Google is afraid that Android is going to get forked in some direction it doesn't like. However, if they keep going the way they are, its almost certain that will be the case anyway.
/rant
I find the wireless router industry fascinating. What does Cisco have to lose by allowing users to flash whatever they want on their hardware ? They have the best of both worlds right now... sell routers locked down for the average person and yet everyone knows how to flash them to build super routers. I think this is the direct the open handset people need to go.
Just wondering how much time people think it'll take before we get even a super unstable rom
From the looks of it, it took a month just to get TWRP on the original Pixel, so probably a while. Personally, I am straying away from ROMs. I only need root so that I can get viper4android and provisioning turned off. Other than that, don't really need anything else anymore.
I don't care too much for roms, however I'm interested in a Kernel that will allow me full control of the screen colors.
I feel that will come sooner than Google will officially provide more vibrant colors.
Fingers crossed for Turkey day, more realistic that Santa will bring em.
I dare say that we'll need factory images & driver binaries to make an appearance before the ball gets properly rolling.
I'm looking forward to Lineage OS. I hope the Pixel 2 gets official support. The Pixel 1 has never had an official version of Lineage OS.
I don't need a lot of new features and mods. But Lineage does strip out some of the privacy violating stuff in Android, other crud, and gets updated weekly, making it more secure.
Currently the Pixel 2 is still on the September 5 security patch from Google. So it has not been patched for the extremely bad Krack vulnerability in wifi (which affects all platforms). In fact, no version of Android, even on the original Pixels has been patched for Krack. But Lineage OS was patched within a day of the public announcement of Krack. This means my Nexus 4 running Lineage OS is more secure than the most up to date Pixel, even though Google stopped supporting the Nexus 4 years ago. That is just an embarrassment and Google should be humiliated, but really they don't care that much about security.
(If you don't know about Krack, it completely breaks WPA2 wifi connections--which is what everyone uses--and allows an attacker to easily decrypt all of your traffic.)
By the way, Windows was patched for Krack the week before it was publically announced. Linux was patched the day of the announcement. As I said, Lineage OS was patched the next day. Apple has been vague about when there will be updates to either MacOS or iOS and just leaked to some bloggers that they are coming--Apple is the worst on security on the desktop now (though they do a lot of PR to appear great) and not good on the iPhone. Google says they have a patch, but are not clear at all about when it will come (a computer journalist/developer I was emailing with recently said to me that Android security is so bad it should be considered criminal).
Anyway, so that's an argument for at least some ROMs, beyond a need for any special features and mods.
I'm with the previous posters. I don't NEED roms...but more development is always a good thing. Remember the days when just getting all your data from phone to phone required Root and titanium? Now all that's backed up in the cloud and restores over the cloud. I was a holdout of the grandfathered UDP and NEEDED root for tethering. But now I'm on the new unlimited and save money now that my teenager is on a smartphone. I'm saving $ on the plan... Never really worry about Data and I really haven't seen a difference.
Android has come so far that each update root has become more for fun instead of necessity.
Everybody needs to settle down with this Krack paranoia. There no hacker sitting outside your window hacking your wifi.
Chronzy said:
Everybody needs to settle down with this Krack paranoia. There no hacker sitting outside your window hacking your wifi.
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Say what?
Chronzy said:
Everybody needs to settle down with this Krack paranoia. There no hacker sitting outside your window hacking your wifi.
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Probably not at your home (although doing that used to be a hobby, called Wardriving, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardriving, so maybe with Krack it will become popular again).
But at work, in a cafe, public places with wifi, wifi sniffing is definitely known to happen.
Further, every time I've heard some say not to worry about some "paranoid" computer security issue, it has come to pass. I can't count anymore the number of computer security disasters that were so predictable, even though they sounded crazy, that I saw them coming years ahead and then they happened.
Basically, these days, we are losing the computer security game. Between extremely sophisticated state actors and almost as sophisticated criminals, huge amounts of resources are going into hacking people in every possible way. If you can think of a hack, it almost certainly is something that is happening or will happen. I've gotten it right so many times that way, when less sophisticated people thought I was crazy. I'm telling you, just imagine something that seems really bad with computer security, sit back, wait a couple years, and it will happen.
What's worse, with Krack, there are so many people running devices that don't get supported anymore that they will be vulnerable to Krack forever. Most routers never get updates either and people don't replace them, so they will be vulnerable for a long time too.
And the people who should be protecting us (Google, banks--Equifax, ahem) don't care, because for them fraud is just and operating expense.
My advice to people is don't do anything over wifi on your phone that you expect to be secure (like banking apps, etc.). Better safe than sorry. Really, I don't think people should ever use banking apps on their phones (or things like Android Pay)--I know people who work for banks developing these things and they really don't spend money on security people (there is also an extreme lack of enough talent in this area). I'll predict it right now. One of these days some banking app is going to get hacked and thousands if not millions of people are going to lose money out of their accounts. The banks will act shocked, pass the cost on to their customers, and know all along they couldn't be bothered to prevent it.
GohanBurner said:
From the looks of it, it took a month just to get TWRP on the original Pixel, so probably a while. Personally, I am straying away from ROMs. I only need root so that I can get viper4android and provisioning turned off. Other than that, don't really need anything else anymore.
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The original Pixel had a new dual boot and system partition structure (for seamless updates), which increased the time needed to get TWRP. With luck the Pixel 2 will have the same structure, so it won't require so much work to get TWRP.
I mainly need root so adaway can change the hosts file to get rid of ads. Maybe I'll just stick with stock recovery and use one of the vpn ad blockers.
foosion said:
The original Pixel had a new dual boot and system partition structure (for seamless updates), which increased the time needed to get TWRP. With luck the Pixel 2 will have the same structure, so it won't require so much work to get TWRP.
I mainly need root so adaway can change the hosts file to get rid of ads. Maybe I'll just stick with stock recovery and use one of the vpn ad blockers.
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I believe it is confirmed to have the same file system. There are indications that there are "slots"again just like the original Pixel.
All development is waiting on the release of the kernel source for the Pixel 2. I'd imagine it'll surface close to when the next OTA comes out with the October/November security patch. Seems like they aren't interested in releasing source and factory images for the current production build. I'd imagine within a week or two it'll happen.
ryanbg said:
All development is waiting on the release of the kernel source for the Pixel 2. I'd imagine it'll surface close to when the next OTA comes out with the October/November security patch. Seems like they aren't interested in releasing source and factory images for the current production build. I'd imagine within a week or two it'll happen.
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Factory images are live:
https://developers.google.com/android/images#walleye
:good::good:
If anyone worried about KRACK needs to stop. If you are visiting http sites stop using them viola no need to worry. It's 2017 and all sites should be using https as a standard. There is no reason for a site not to use it.
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