Please sticky this if you want so people actually understand.
So, Go drink a beer and celebrate (but not by posting stupid stuff in the forum) Motorola has finally released their Bootloader unlock tool.
This is very similar to what HTC did a while back. Basically you get a code from your phone, submit it to moto, they void your warranty, they give you an unlock code, you unlock your bootloader.
Now, the bad news: Currently it only supports the new photon Q
Why you say, well I can actually answer that for you: In order to get the needed info from your phone you must run oem get_unlock_data in fastboot. This IS NOT supported on the bootloader of any previous phones, which means it will not work.
Now, Motorola has said they will be adding more devices soon, which seems to me to imply that they mean older devices, not just new ones as they come out.
HTC had the same issue. They fixed it by releasing an update to the phones that just flashed a new bootloader that allowed the oem stuff.
So bottom line is we are not yet supported and may never get an unlock, but hopefully moto will enable us to unlock our phones soon.
Just the fact that they have given us this tool in the first place is a huge leap.
Link to the tool: https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a
*conspiracy theory implying that the delayed soak/OTA for ICS for our phone is the result of them adding this feature to it last minute*
Silas0220 said:
*conspiracy theory implying that the delayed soak/OTA for ICS for our phone is the result of them adding this feature to it last minute*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wishful thinking
Silas0220 said:
*conspiracy theory implying that the delayed soak/OTA for ICS for our phone is the result of them adding this feature to it last minute*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to that!
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Seeing as how I thought moto was going to unlock the bl's last year,I won't be holding my breath
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Motorola lied and I'm still locked mb865
mtnlion said:
Seeing as how I thought moto was going to unlock the bl's last year,I won't be holding my breath
Motorola lied and I'm still locked mb865
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Asked support...
I sent customer support a short message asking when and if the Atrix 2 would be supported with that tool. This is the reply:
Dear [REDACTED],
Thanks for reaching out to Motorola. We have reviewed your e-mail and we are ready to help.
Regarding your concern, Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Atrix 2 and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader.
The technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices for developers via MOTODEV at
[REDACTED because links].
For the link that you have provided, it only supports the Motorola Photon Q and additional devices launching in the future. Each device that ships with an unlockable bootloader requires not only internal development work but also agreements and testing with carriers; thus, the option of having an unlockable bootloader will require consideration on a case-by-case basis for each device and each region.
We hope that you find this information useful and we look forward to assisting you in the future.
For information about Motorola products and services, please visit us at [REDACTED because links]
Thank you for contacting Motorola e-mail support.
Best Regards,
[REDACTED, although they probably don't use their real names...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is open to interpretation, but it doesn't seem like the Atrix 2 is on their agenda.
Recombobulator said:
I sent customer support a short message asking when and if the Atrix 2 would be supported with that tool. This is the reply:
This is open to interpretation, but it doesn't seem like the Atrix 2 is on their agenda.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is the same thing they always send regarding bootloaders, never changes
Silas0220 said:
*conspiracy theory implying that the delayed soak/OTA for ICS for our phone is the result of them adding this feature to it last minute*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually a moto support person sort of said so. When I asked when they would put in the ability to run oem fastboot commands they said it was being added to a future upgrade. I asked if that meant the ICS OTA and they said "they cannot share that information"
lkrasner said:
actually a moto support person sort of said so. When I asked when they would put in the ability to run oem fastboot commands they said it was being added to a future upgrade. I asked if that meant the ICS OTA and they said "they cannot share that information"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could this possibly explain the ns bootloader in the leak?
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Scottyfer said:
Could this possibly explain the ns bootloader in the leak?
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sort of, but not really, that one is unlocked, not just capable of having the commands run
lkrasner said:
sort of, but not really, that one is unlocked, not just capable of having the commands run
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh. I thought the ns was just capable of being unlocked not pre unlocked.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
Tweet from Motorola says unlocking older models "not currently in the plan"
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Twee...lder-models-not-currently-in-the-plan_id33589
techsavvy.jaz said:
Tweet from Motorola says unlocking older models "not currently in the plan"
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Twee...lder-models-not-currently-in-the-plan_id33589
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that game plan may make me buy a new phone,however it wont be motorola. If they unlock this one I MIGHT buy another moto but it's doubtful. Too much of that bridge has been burned.
mtnlion said:
Oh that game plan may make me buy a new phone,however it wont be motorola. If they unlock this one I MIGHT buy another moto but it's doubtful. Too much of that bridge has been burned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Related
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/htc-locks-down-incredible-s-against-custom-roms-too-starts-a-fi/
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73423/htc-beveiligt-bootloader-nieuwe-android-toestellen.html
Why???
You have just been added next to Sony on my "Don't buy"-list.
Which phone will be the next HD2? LG?
***Update***:
Sony-Ericsson makes a tool to load custom roms onto their devices (http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73521/so...t-custom-roms-op-android-phones-mogelijk.html)
This is good news!
How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?
This was an interesting argument, to me: NOT that the phones aren't still crackable, but rather that HTC is giving into intimidation by Verizon.. and by doing so, it's signaling that they will bow down to carriers, yet even moreso, over end users who BUY THEIR PHONES and are their actual customers.
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You may not agree, but the "rebel" in me likes that argument at least....
When you combine this with HTC America's not honoring warranties, they are not making the best moves given their fractional market share and the massive competition getting stronger and stronger from Motorola and Samsung every day ---- though I love HTC's phones and have never cheated on them once!
But keep in mind HTC *owned* the entire turf of touchscreen devices during the mighty reign of Windows Mobile... Now? Today? They are practically an asterisk. And Motorola? They were gonners. People thought there were out of the game having fallen so far behind after nothing new since the RAZR. Then the new CEO came in, targeted Android as his platform for choice, they targeted the DROID as their re-entry vehicle, and they slammed into the touchscreen market and overtook HTC like a steamroller.
When you are playing on THAT kind of playing field, you're going to go messing with your most loyal customer base -- and kiss ass with a carrier? I think HTC is blundering all over the place -- all the while they continue to make fantastic phones. But fact remains, they cannot afford to even SIGHTLY ANNOY a loyal customer these days. Once someone goes Samsung or Motorola, I don't see a big love affair where they're going to comer back to HTC. So, they better watch it, from where I sit. It's not just as simple a matter as "but we can crack anything". That's missing the point entirely.
Is HTC dual mode? Are they just doing it in the US or all over. That's why I've never liked Verizon. Started years ago over ringtones and BitPim.
What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S, which from the specs on HTC's website, is a GSM phone so if this additional layer of security were a specific demand from VZW, there'd be no reason to add it to the Incredible S.
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.
GnatGoSplat said:
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with this. Go to any Android phone dev section and you see tons of people returning phones for replacement because they goof up flashing it.
I didn't realize this was posted already, I had just posted this in another section, I had said a week ago that it might be the end of an era with HTC locking down their phones, this sucks.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is just pressure from the carriers rather than HTC itself.
Regardless, i am disappoint!
I hope they dont do this, we need customization!
it does suck, theyll be another motorola now, except sense still owns blur lol
No no no no no. :'( this sucks. I love htc and the OPENNESS of android. Why I DIDN'T go with Motorola for an android device.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
we need to apeal to htc to please not do this!!
GnatGoSplat said:
What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Even if HTC were to start locking the bootloader at the behest of one particular network (and frankly, I find the notion that any one network would have enough clout to try and impose such measures questionable, to say the least), there'd be no reason for HTC to do this to all their handsets.
This is a decision HTC have made themselves.
GnatGoSplat said:
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also true - XDA may be big but it doesn't compare to the number of phones being sold.
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.
man i hope somebody talks some sense into them
This is bonkers what are they doing this for?
GnatGoSplat said:
How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't know for sure, but when you hook up you phone to your computer and flash it, your computer and phone will communicate with each other, and the computer will tell the phone what the new rom will be. Now, the people here at xda only have to figure out how to tell the phone what the new rom is.
But with this new security, not only do will we have to figure out how to tell it, we also have to answer the phones question to the computer, what the password is to flash it. This password is only known to HTC.
Step666 said:
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing. The new devices with be unlocked and made available to the people who'll use them.
If HTC locked the phones like Motorola does, then there will be no further HTC gadgets for me.
I didn't buy Motorola because of the same reason.
Every time they make a "secure lock" it takes all of a week to open and rewrite
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
This is phase and as such, will pass
oka1 said:
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you need to re-read that.
The Supreme Court said it wasn't illegal to hack/tweak/modify software such as rooting/jail-breaking but that doesn't magically give you a right to do so.
If end-users have the right to modify their handsets, how do Motorola get away with their encrypted bootloader?
I have been talking to some HTC guy on the live chat support. I asked whether the Desire S will be unlocked alongside the Sensation, and he said:
"HTC intends to provide a method to unlock all the phones that were shipped with a locked bootloader."
Take this as a grain of salt, as this guy could be wrong
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Why wait? AlpharevX works fine.
My phone has a different HBOOT version, and that'll mean downgrading. Instead of going through all that, I may as well wait for it to be officially supported. Plus there aren't any good ROMS for the DS at the moment. Hopefully CM7 gets developed for the DS.
spagmuff said:
My phone has a different HBOOT version, and that'll mean downgrading. Instead of going through all that, I may as well wait for it to be officially supported. Plus there aren't any good ROMS for the DS at the moment. Hopefully CM7 gets developed for the DS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, gutted.
Must admit, I'm wandering if there's a ROM worth upgrading too. Sense 3.0 would be nice, but I'm quite happy with stock + Super User rights. I only really use it for Ad Blocking!
Dude should've got some more info. Like when and how exactly were they gonna implement this would it be via FOTA or PC. How will it affect warranty issues e.t.c
othis is last post on fb from htc about bootloader
**UPDATE 7/10**
We wanted to provide an update on HTC’s progress with bringing bootloader unlocking to our newest phones. We know how excited some of you are for this capability, and we’ve put significant resources behind making this change as soon as possible. While we wish we could flip a simple switch and unlock all bootloaders across our device portfolio, this is actually a complex challenge that requires a new software build and extensive testing to deliver the best possible customer experience.
We’re thrilled to announce today that software updates to support bootloader unlocking will begin rolling out in August for the global HTC Sensation, followed by the HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile USA and the HTC EVO 3D on Sprint. We’re in the testing phase for the unlocking capability now, and we expect it to be fully operational by early September for devices that have received the software updates. We'll continue rolling out the unlocking capability over time to other devices as part of maintenance releases and new shipments.
HTC continues its commitment to unlocking bootloaders and supporting the developer community. Because of the importance of this community to us, please expect an update on this about every few weeks as we make progress toward launch. Thank you for your patience and continued support!
My support issue with HTC
Q1: When will (as announced on Facebook, http://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150307320018084) the bootloader for the "HTC Desire S" be unlocked?
A1 (HTC): Thank you for contacting HTC regarding your mobile phone HTC Desire S.
I understand that you wish to know when the bootloader will be unlocked.
Regarding your query our last official communicates says: We are currently developing new bootloader unlocked software for your phone. HTC is still committed to allowing our customers to unlock the bootloaders if they wish, however we are still implementing the policy and many updates were already finalized prior to our change in policy. We apologize for the inconvenience, but be assured that we are working on a solution for our customers and our commitment has not changed. Please stay tuned to our official channels for ongoing updates on how we will be implementing this policy. Thank you for your patience.
Q2: What is the ETA? Are we talking weeks, months or years until the bootloader can be unlocked. Can you say that the "Desire S" will receive a unlocked bootloader 100%?
A2 (HTC): Thank you for contacting us again. Unfortunately there isn't further information regarding which phones and when is going to be done. For fresher news on this I suggest to check often our page in Facebook. I hope that this information meets with your requirements, should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again. If this response has resolved your query, and you have no further questions please close this ticket by following the link below.
Q3: Hi, is it possible to get any kind of commitment from you if and when your phones will get the unlocked bootloaders. As for now the whole hype is just a marketing activity as there is not a single HTC model with unlocked bootloader available. Look at SonyEricsson for example, they not just announced the unlocked bootloaders, they also published a seperate webpage where you can get the necessary software/downloads: http://unlockbootloader.sonyericsson.com/. Hope that HTC is able to show the same commitement to their announcements!
A3 (HTC): Thank you for contacting HTC regarding Desire S.
HTC is a forward thinking company and appreciates any feedback received from its customers; your comments have been passed to the appropriate department for consideration.
Should you have any further feedback, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Thank you for contacting HTC Support
I myself unlocked with AlpharevX and i am now a happy Virtuous Unity user
I have again spoken to another guy on chat. He said the following:
"At the moment it is only the Sensation and the Desire S"
I really hope this is true. I also have an ass service provider (Vodafone) which will probably block the update from coming through.
mikeyd85 said:
Ah, gutted.
Must admit, I'm wandering if there's a ROM worth upgrading too. Sense 3.0 would be nice, but I'm quite happy with stock + Super User rights. I only really use it for Ad Blocking!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
Do you mean rooted, but with stock? I thought superuser was for rooted only?
al89nut said:
Hi
Do you mean rooted, but with stock? I thought superuser was for rooted only?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can have superuser with stock.
The superuser app in the Market says not so -quote "This app requires that you already have root"
spagmuff said:
I have again spoken to another guy on chat. He said the following:
"At the moment it is only the Sensation and the Desire S"
I really hope this is true. I also have an ass service provider (Vodafone) which will probably block the update from coming through.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that sensation and evo 3d the flag ship devices will get the boot loader un lock first and before the DS
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA Premium App
alexander.kilian said:
A3 (HTC): Thank you for contacting HTC regarding Desire S.
HTC is a forward thinking company and appreciates any feedback received from its customers; your comments have been passed to the appropriate department for consideration.
Should you have any further feedback, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Thank you for contacting HTC Support
I myself unlocked with AlpharevX and i am now a happy Virtuous Unity user
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, classic piece of corporate bull****
They may do it, indeed looks very likely, but thinks alex has the right way of thinking - alpharevx
Peace
ben_pyett said:
I believe that sensation and evo 3d the flag ship devices will get the boot loader un lock first and before the DS
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, He didn't mention the EVO 3D, as this was in the UK. We don't have it (unfortunately) Maybe they are planning to unlock the flagships, then the "S" series, as these are relatively new and popular.
By the time HTC unlock the phone i think almost everyone unlock using alpharevx
alpharevx rules! who is waiting for HTC to act?
+1 I am satisfied with it as is for nw...
I've got a 0.98.2000 bootloader so i'll wait for Alpharevx to unlock these to....
jepe63 said:
I've got a 0.98.2000 bootloader so i'll wait for Alpharevx to unlock these to....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me too.
unless htc unlocks it first.
it's so frustrating. i only want root so that i can remove the bloatware from my telco.
i'm quite happy with the rom otherwise.
Yep , same here , except to remove vodafone sh**t
(and maybe flash rom but not decided yet )
Firstly, let me say that this is not a class action type petition.
This is a discussion and petition asking the Manufacturer HTC to honor it's advertised position, made by CEO Peter Chou on May 26th, promising to ship all future devices with unlocked bootloaders.
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AND
You can see the statement yourself at: http://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150307320018084
I don't want to add to the legal troubles of my favorite manufacturer, I just want them to correct their mistake, unlock the bootloaders as promised & apologize for what I am sure was an inadvertent oversight that will be corrected in a few hours or a day or two.
You simply can't make advertisement directed toward increasing sales off new devices to developers & power users (the folks that review and fix bugs for you freely in many cases) and then break that bond, that trust built over the last decade.
Also, don't even try to say that you aren't using these social media outlets to market and advertise. I have been getting your posts and tweets, advertising your devices all week.
While your actions are certainly in violation of numerous trade regulations and laws, I don't care at this point. I don't want to make a name litigating over these issues, I just want the manufacturer that I support, to keep their word and market/advertise their devices in a fair and ethical manner. I am not participating in the boycott thread & I'm not asking people to stop buying HTC products. Just the opposite in fact. I want you to be successful. But I also want you to honor our relationship and keep your promises.
Please, take notice and make this right.
I ask all XDA members to support HTC in doing the right thing & pledge your support by joining this discussion and adding your name to this petition.
We, the members engaged in discussion in this forum thread ask HTC to comply with their advertised & promised claim of May 26th, that all future devices would have unlocked bootloaders.
We appreciate your timely rectification of this issue HTC.
Sincerely,
The above & below named participants.
EDIT: Please also sign the petition here: http://www.groubal.com/htc-vivid-has-locked-bootloader-contrary-to-statements-by-the-company/
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
I agree with all the above. Tired of this crap, didn't expect it from HTC. HTC phones have always had the greatest development, but that won't carry on if they continue to lie and do this.
+1
10char
slapshot30 said:
I agree with all the above. Tired of this crap, didn't expect it from HTC. HTC phones have always had the greatest development, but that won't carry on if they continue to lie and do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lying about S-LCD displays is another reason I avoid HTC phones. HTC used to be acceptably decent. Now they seem to lie their rears off.
Although I am a die hard Samsung user, I do support your cause for HTC to have unlocked bootloaders now and in the future. What they do could affect how other manufacturers treat their devices. I wouldn't want to see the same thing happen to Samsung phones either. Plus this also stifles development by the independent community as well.
+1
I would like my bootloader unlocked plus an ice cream sandwich for the wait. Thanks.
HTC, please stop lying to us
I'm not an HTC guy but i agree this is damaging for the entire community and i'm sure there are HTC guys on here so they can't play dumb
i am a HTC fan.
i agree with OP
LYING MAKE ME MAD, HULK SMASH!
Agree with OP..
Thats the only reason why i never bought VIVID...
+ 1
Wouldn't mind getting htc products. This I why I don't.
Sent from my I897 using XDA App
<Removed>
+1
I posted on Twitter and Facebook. Returning my Vivid and never buying HTC ever again if unlock doesn't come this week :-(
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
Add me to the ranks who support this. I also posted this to a thread I started 2wks ago on the htc forums.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/182/t/14430.aspx
Posted to FB and G+ as well as Public w/ request to reshare!
I fully support that HTC should honor their promise, and unlock HTC bootloader. See my posts on the HTC Vivid forums.
I fully support this petition.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium
+ 1
I've always went with HTC phones, and I was considering going with another manufacturer until HTC made the bootloader statement. Now that I see they are not true to their own words, and I can't even trust a statement made by the CEO, how can I continue to trust your devices or quality.
I personally make decisions in my company regarding the devices we use in the field, and have mostly chosen HTC phones to meet our needs. If you continue this line of blame-shifting back and forth between it's AT&T's fault and AT&T says it's your problem, (we all know better considering other devices from other manufacturers are unlocked or unlockable on AT&T) you are going to loose a large contract, as I will have to find another manufacturer, and possibly another service provider.
adelmundo said:
Although I am a die hard Samsung user, I do support your cause for HTC to have unlocked bootloaders now and in the future. What they do could affect how other manufacturers treat their devices. I wouldn't want to see the same thing happen to Samsung phones either. Plus this also stifles development by the independent community as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hav to agree with you htc shouldn't be lying cauz i don't want them to be an example for Samsung.
+100 im shocked the evo 3d owners got them to unlock the bootloader. And they posted that statement when we all told them how angry we were they locked our bootloader. I cant believe tuey flat out lied about unlocking future devices tisk tisk.
It is not HTC that is locking the bootloaders. It is the carriers. They lock them because people brick their phone and claim them under warranty which costs the carrier a fortune. There is a legal battle over this currently.
Sent from my Eris using XDA App
Figure we can keep the back and forth here and out of the R&D thread...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
I'm curious how closely the USCellular model is to Verizon's and if it is the USCellular model that Samsung will sell as a "developers edition"
Any ideas?
I hope it's not too late. That thread seems long gone... I'm just glad people are staying out of AdamOutler's r&d thread. They actually seem to be getting somewhere.
Wontfinishlast said:
I hope it's not too late. That thread seems long gone... I'm just glad people are staying out of AdamOutler's r&d thread. They actually seem to be getting somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's some very intelligent people working in there. It amazes me.
Thanks for creating this thread. I keep an eye on the bootloader threads and get tired of having to suffer through pages and pages of people *****ing and moaning about everything related to the bootloader issue except the actual progress in development.
Sent from my LOCKED (Verizon, you suck), SCH-I535.
For anyone interested, I submitted a complaint to the FCC regarding the locked bootloader on the GS3. If you'd like to do the same, go to fcc.gov and click on file a complaint. Then choose wireless provider and then choose the option related to deceptive actions. There is a 1000 character limit to your complaint. Here is the text of my complaint.
Verizon is the only major carrier to have released the Samsung Galaxy SIII with a locked bootloader. There was nothing in Verizon's advertised specs about a locked bootloader. Their explanation is that the device is locked to maintain the security and integrity of the network. However, they are currently selling another Samsung phone, the Galaxy Nexus which has an unlockable bootloader. Also, Verizon has announced a "developer edition" of the Galaxy SIII with an unlockable bootloader for use on Verizon's network. That device must be purchased directly from Samsung for $599. How can Verizon claim a network security and integrity issue and then sell, offer and allow such devices on their network? I feel that Verizon has tricked many customers into paying for a device that they can't use to it's full potential. They know that "security" is a great loophole for complying with the letter of their Auction 73 Block C requirements while totally violating the spirit of that agreement.
That complaint is 990 characters. If you'd like to copy it for your own use, please feel free to do so. Hopefully, enough of us will do this to get the attention of the FCC, consumer organizations and those in positions of influence over the wireless industry.
Sent from my LOCKED (Verizon, you suck), SCH-I535.
I didn't get a chance to file a complaint with the FCC last night but will tonight.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Filed mine yesterday..
Got a call from VZW customer service today. They asked if I was content with my recent upgrade!
She agreed with me that often people buy Androids instead of iPhones because Androids are so customizeable. I expected to be able to use an OS of my choosing on this phone, so I am upset that Verizon locked the bootloader. She understood and sympathized, and now on a server somewhere in the world, there's a short note stating that I'm unhappy with my upgrade.
makogaleos said:
Got a call from VZW customer service today. They asked if I was content with my recent upgrade!
She agreed with me that often people buy Androids instead of iPhones because Androids are so customizeable. I expected to be able to use an OS of my choosing on this phone, so I am upset that Verizon locked the bootloader. She understood and sympathized, and now on a server somewhere in the world, there's a short note stating that I'm unhappy with my upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha.. awesome!
I understand the notes on my Verizon account are "colorful."
This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
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Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.
BarryH_GEG said:
This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Help us draft a response to help describe the issues, without losing our audience then.
ancashion said:
Help us draft a response to help describe the issues, without losing our audience then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Honestly, with the latest kexec method, I'm not sweating the boatloader anymore
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
wera750 said:
Honestly, with the latest kexec method, I'm not sweating the boatloader anymore
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I may be wrong here because I've never flashed a rom but come to the S3 from an X2 so I've done my time with encrypted boot-loaders, but-
I thought we could change settings/features/etc. on each Rom, but, changing the base kernel of the OS is impossible. Thus, when a new OS is released from Google- say key lime pie, and it drastically changes the kernel, we will forever be prevented from putting that on our device.
Again, I may be wrong. My understanding of it is very limited.
---------- Post added at 09:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 AM ----------
jaj6503 said:
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn- I'm already out of thanks to give.
I'd give you a gold star, but there ain't any. how about a :good:
jaj6503 said:
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's "Barry" and I have no problem helping you guys.
"People choose Android phones for their openness. That openness allows portability so we can use the phones we've purchased from a single carrier on other carriers so that, based on the free market competition the FCC fosters, we have choices. Up until Verizon launched the new Samsung Galaxy SIII which is projected to sell in the tens of millions, Verizon (like all the other carriers) supported Android's openness and portability. With this new device, Verizon has locked the bootloader (the ability for users to modify the phone) limiting its portability. They did so without any communication with customers only finding out after entering in to a 2-year binding agreement with penalties. If other carriers follow Verizon’s dangerous precedent, and it’s reasonable to think they will, it runs contra to everything the FCC works so diligently to uphold. ”
BarryH_GEG said:
It's "Barry" and I have no problem helping you guys.
"People choose Android phones for their openness. That openness allows portability so we can use the phones we've purchased from a single carrier on other carriers so that, based on the free market competition the FCC fosters, we have choices. Up until Verizon launched the new Samsung Galaxy SIII which is projected to sell in the tens of millions, Verizon (like all the other carriers) supported Android's openness and portability. With this new device, Verizon has locked the bootloader (the ability for users to modify the phone) limiting its portability. They did so without any communication with customers only finding out after entering in to a 2-year binding agreement with penalties. If other carriers follow Verizon’s dangerous precedent, and it’s reasonable to think they will, it runs contra to everything the FCC works so diligently to uphold. ”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your post, Barry.
FCC is not ignorant to their own laws. That is, their jobs, after all. It is okay to include a bit of legalese in this case. Maybe mentioning Block C requirements §27.16(e).
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree though with the encryption of the bootloader locking down the OS. That, they don't care about which has already been proved by Verizon's response to the Razr FCC complaint suggesting it was for "customer service requirements" and "Network security."
Section (e) of §27.16 also includes a blip about the locking down of the device to prevent said device from being used on a different network.
Verizon, will have to explain the reasonableness of keeping an encrypted lock on your device after you've decided to make the switch.
But, for it to work, you must first be truthfully denied by Verizon for this request. Only then, can you back them into a corner.
Truthfully, this will work for all 4g devices, from the Razr to the S3 with encrypted bootloaders.
I explain in more detail here, however, I got very few responses as it think it was over the heads of most.
Really, it's quite simple and again, VZW will have to explain how the action is reasonable, which I can't think of one way they can do. Not when I've decided to take this device to a different network. Basically, they'll tell the FCC it's "reasonable" to lock me to VZW's network which is expressly prohibited by that law. I just can't see how they can do it.
Edit- I'm all out of thanks to give so :good:
ancashion said:
Now I may be wrong here because I've never flashed a rom but come to the S3 from an X2 so I've done my time with encrypted boot-loaders, but-
I thought we could change settings/features/etc. on each Rom, but, changing the base kernel of the OS is impossible. Thus, when a new OS is released from Google- say key lime pie, and it drastically changes the kernel, we will forever be prevented from putting that on our device.
Again, I may be wrong. My understanding of it is very limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe you are mistaken.
I came from a Droid 2 Global, where we had a similar situation. We were stuck on the Gingerbread kernel, and with no kexec, we were unable to chain-load a new kernel. We eventually got ICS ports like CM9, but that's because developers made lots of wrappers to make the existing Android ICS framework compatible with the Gingerbread kernel.
This is different from the Galaxy S3, however. We have a working kexec port that allows us to chain-load any custom kernel we want. This means that the bootloader initially loads the original, signed Samsung kernel, and then while that kernel is running, it actually loads our new, unsigned kernel directly on top of the currently running kernel. The unsigned kernel is then the one handling everything. There is pretty much nothing from the kernel-upwards that we can't modify- it's only the lower level stuff, which is pretty much just the bootloader itself.
We now have an auto-kexec method that streamlines the entire process, too. Previously, the kexec/kernel package had to be flashed in recovery before starting Android, otherwise the new kernel would not be loaded. The auto-kexec method keeps everything on a cache partition, and automatically flashes the package with each reboot. Basically the only drawback to our auto-kexec method is that it takes a bit longer to reboot/start the device, because it must first automatically boot into recovery and flash the package.
Still, this method pretty much entirely circumvents the bootloader. Plus, if you've taken a look at the CM9 install guide for our device, the actual installations of ROMs with auto-exec are now as simple as flashing the custom recovery to the device and then flashing a ROM via recovery. It's near-identical to how you normally flash ROMs.
Because of all this hard work, AOSP ROMs with custom kernels are a reality, and I can only hope we'll see official support from the CyanogenMod team and other major ROM teams.
ExodusC said:
I believe you are mistaken.
I came from a Droid 2 Global, where we had a similar situation. We were stuck on the Gingerbread kernel, and with no kexec, we were unable to chain-load a new kernel. We eventually got ICS ports like CM9, but that's because developers made lots of wrappers to make the existing Android ICS framework compatible with the Gingerbread kernel.
This is different from the Galaxy S3, however. We have a working kexec port that allows us to chain-load any custom kernel we want. This means that the bootloader initially loads the original, signed Samsung kernel, and then while that kernel is running, it actually loads our new, unsigned kernel directly on top of the currently running kernel. The unsigned kernel is then the one handling everything. There is pretty much nothing from the kernel-upwards that we can't modify- it's only the lower level stuff, which is pretty much just the bootloader itself.
We now have an auto-kexec method that streamlines the entire process, too. Previously, the kexec/kernel package had to be flashed in recovery before starting Android, otherwise the new kernel would not be loaded. The auto-kexec method keeps everything on a cache partition, and automatically flashes the package with each reboot. Basically the only drawback to our auto-kexec method is that it takes a bit longer to reboot/start the device, because it must first automatically boot into recovery and flash the package.
Still, this method pretty much entirely circumvents the bootloader. Plus, if you've taken a look at the CM9 install guide for our device, the actual installations of ROMs with auto-exec are now as simple as flashing the custom recovery to the device and then flashing a ROM via recovery. It's near-identical to how you normally flash ROMs.
Because of all this hard work, AOSP ROMs with custom kernels are a reality, and I can only hope we'll see official support from the CyanogenMod team and other major ROM teams.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your reply. I have no more thanks to give so :good: will have to do. I'll try and come back to give the props you deserve.
My apologies for being so thick on it. I've got a ton to learn.
BarryH_GEG said:
This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but he looks like the type that would have 3 hot female geek interns that could explain it to him. FCC takes the time to figure out the whole situation I dunno how you can judge what someone looks like as to what power they may have... Hes got the finger that could potentially hit the red button. I mean common hes go a red tie! I'll try and file a complaint this weekend. I'm not really cool with the whole 14 day return deal. I want the phone that was advertised because I had to upgrade due the the fact i was forced to... keep in mind they didn't let us know via Verizon to customer communication only through thrid party...
Author is xda member Ednylaw
To file with the FCC, EDNYLaw has created a formal complaint. To use, simply click the link below, download the .docx and input YOUR name and information required below.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26329079/FCC%20Complaint%20Web.docx
Here is EDNYlaw in his own words:
Quoted from Post 55: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=29945914&postcount=55
EDNYLaw said:
I am the Attorney who wrote that comment on Droid Life and wrote the FCC Complaint. Please direct all your questions to me as I'm happy to answer them and help move things forward. A couple of things:
1) To those that think unlocking a bootloader is pointless with all the workarounds, I don't want to hear it, if that's how you feel, you're entitled to your opinion but please don't pollute this thread with your useless comments. Help or get out. PS: if the bootloader gets unlocked I fully expect either a) a statement from anyone saying it was pointless thanking the community if they choose to unlock or b) you DO NOT unlock your bootloader
2) I have not taken Verizon to court, the FCC did not take Verizon to court. The FCC made a determination that Verizon is violating the C Block regulation (it's a regulation, not law, there's a difference) and fined them. The violation was in regard to tethering apps and Google wallet. While my complaint touched on these things, the gravamen of my complaint was regarding locked bootloaders and custom ROMs, which I believe there is still a significant argument to be made.
3) Anyone who wants to read my full complaint (and send it to the FCC or their US Senators/Representatives under their name) it is located here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/109uYmho_6daIpAl0ACPSFoK0qrd6K9wp5yeqM7dEaoI/edit edit it accordingly as the beginning part was specific to me
4) Keep me informed and up to date about anything. The more minds the better. I've subscribed to this topic so I'll check in when I can.
5) As of yet I can't really think of a cause of action to take Verizon to court other than an injunction, but I'm not even thinking about a lawsuit unless it's funded or I get some help from other attorneys. I have a full time job and I'm learning to develop in my free time so I just don't have the time to pursue a giant lawsuit by myself for free right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDNYLaw said:
If OP could put this in the OP it'll probably be helpful:
When I say fill in your information I mean:
I've bolded the things you need to fill in
STATE OF YOUR STATE )
)ss:
COUNTY OF YOUR COUNTY )
----------------------------------------------------------------X
In re Verizon Wireless
YOUR NAME
Complainant,
-against-
Verizon Wireless
----------------------------------------------------------------X
You do not need an FCC Complaint Number, the reason I had a complaint number was I had previously sent in a complaint.
Make sure you also "sign" it at the bottom (last page) above where it says Complainant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Continued...
EDNYLaw said:
1) Use my complaint (provided in my post above) and in the first part where it says Verizon Wireless against... fill in your name and in the last part where it says "Respectfully Submitted" put your info in (Name, address, telephone, email)
2) I filed the complaint with the FCC and got a BS canned response from Verizon, I refiled and got the same canned BS response. After my Senator followed up I got a response from the FCC saying I could file a formal complaint, but clearly that was just a dead end since I filed 2 formal complaints and pushed the issue with my senator. Though I guess someone at the FCC caught wind because that 7/31 decision seemed to agree with my complaints and the timing was a little too coincidental
3) Completely free: go to fcc.gov and click on file consumer complaint. Email, fax or mail my complaint with your information filled in to them. I would also send it to your US Senators. Anyone from Minnesota, I think Senator Franken would be a great person to follow up with something like this.
4) In order to help out, SPREAD THE WORD! The more people that are vocal about this the better. When I was doing this with Moto I tried to get Droid Life, Android Central and Phandroid to post an article but none of them were interested. I say, spam them and get them to post an article with my complaint and what people can do. Again, the more people that are complaining and vocal, the more likely a response will be had. Give people my complaint to fill in, email the fcc chairman and commissioners (google to find their emails, it's just [email protected]). If you (or someone you know who is interested in this type of thing) is an attorney, feel free to PM me and maybe we can talk about something. Again, I don't have a tremendous amount of time to invest in this for no pay and by myself. But if there were enough attorney's interested I'd do it pro bono (for free) with the help of a group of attorneys.
And as I said, if you have questions about Verizon's policy and potential violations, ask me and I'll try to answer them. I did all the research and writing myself in my spare time and I think I nailed it insofar as the legal issues. There is next to no case law on the specific issues so I had to make legal arguments based on what little resources I had and the plain language of the regulation. Now at least that the FCC has released this decision, there is some precedent that they are actually willing to enforce a regulation instead of being a puppet for the wireless carriers (though I'm not completely convinced they're autonomous, 1.25 million to Verizon is nothing when their profits were 2.4 billion last year, that's .0005% of their profits for those keeping score at home)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks EDNYLaw. Mine is going in the mail today!
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Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!
Haha this is epic. Here comes another fine Verizon!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Dude I wish you well, and your kinda my hero today lol
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
Very nice; thanks for posting it.
More momentum for our filing our complaints.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1808956
FCC will win, VZW will send an update....right at the moment I say to myself, "Ah....it took weeks but I have my phone exactly how I want it!"
am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.
brockkk said:
am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.
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Click to collapse
Perfectly is an overstatement. It kinda sucks and we don't have a ton of development cause devs frankly don't want to deal with it.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
We do have a good workaround, however we shouldn't need a workaround.
Hopefully this goes somewhere, and Verizon has to fork out some more of that money of ours.
What was the outcome of this letter? It was pre Nexus S, so I assume it's been dealt with?
brockkk said:
am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Workarounds are a stop-gap, duct tape, a rubber band and bubble gum, and should be temporary. Many (myself included) don't want to deal with it and it isolates us from a significant part of the dev community. One of the reasons I wanted the SIII is for its large, wide-spread attention...but ours is gimped.
The bigger issue is that VZW won't stop at bootloaders; how long before they lock everything?
The biggest issue is VZW is doing an end-run around the law.
AndroidGraphix said:
Just read this and thought it would be nice to share.
http://www.google.com/gwt/x/e?u=htt...Ymho_6daIpAl0ACPSFoK0qrd6K9wp5yeqM7dEaoI/edit
Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read that? Also, keep us updated!!!
ddggttff3 said:
Where did you read that? Also, keep us updated!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found on Droid life.
Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!
Drama queens. The development is fine.
brockkk said:
Drama queens. The development is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason why we are "drama queens" is because Verizon is violating the law and is telling us that they could care less about that they locked the bootloader even if it violates the Block C since they can somehow get away with stuff like that.
brockkk said:
Drama queens. The development is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously a noob with no idea of the potential this phone has and how crippled it is with a locked bootloader. Either that or he is killing time until he can preorder the iphone 5.
Sent from my unlocked GTab 2 running CM10
This guy needs to talk to them about Google wallet. Stupid Verizon.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Anyone know who the author is ??
the title is little misleading only cuz the fcc has not taken them to court yet, and more then likely Verizon will comply before it makes it to court
it looks more of very formal and will written compliant to the fcc (could be wrong still reading from phone)
very valid points presented in the compliant the fcc will diffidently pay attention to this one
i would suggest the author attache the petition in this thread to the complaint
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1756483
Sent from my Encrypted S3
Yeah, well. They claim that an unlocked bootloader shaves a few seconds off boot time. But it also has the ability to prevent bricks, and it makes development more open-ended. Right now all of vzw's custom rom devs have to bake kexec into the rom, which require extra work.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
To everyone saying that some people here are drama queens, look at all the development the international version has: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1566. Just about all I see on that page is ROMs, ROMs, and more jelly bean ROMs. The locked bootloader has turned devs away from our version (as many people have already said). You may be happy with CM10 and a kexec workaround, but a lot of us want more options.
tonu42 said:
Look at how far whining has gotten for the Droid Series by Motorola. No where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did Motorola have an agreement with the FCC prohibiting such activities?
If it doesn't stop now, how long before your recovery also becomes locked?
kmoore11 said:
To everyone saying that some people here are drama queens, look at all the development the international version has: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1566. Just about all I see on that page is ROMs, ROMs, and more jelly bean ROMs. The locked bootloader has turned devs away from our version (as many people have already said). You may be happy with CM10 and a kexec workaround, but a lot of us want more options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
International version had a jump on Verizon. Hell every other carrier did. I browsed the first page of at&ts development and counted 7 ROMs Verizon had 4 on their first page. And don't even bother looking at sprints development section. This is all getting blown out of proportion.