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Do you think when you buy a porsche or a ferrari and you can not drive because the wheel fell of or the windshield blew off in the middle of nowhere the factory tells you: oh sorry this a new model, you keep testing it and maybe if we get enough complaints we will fix it. NO!
When you pay top dollar you get a device that works out of the box,period.
HTC is using us as their testers, but makes us pay a 1000$ for it and lose our time perfecting a half-product they placed on the market before it should be released, plus the customer service treats us as idiots and lies directly : oh we got a lot of good feedback...(yeah right like I was going to call them to say how good a device is), or we dont know anything about a gps lag....f*uck you sit in the car a take a drive idiot!!
The last time I bought HTC!
Getting a nokia. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So, what you're saying is HTC is just like Windows? ;-)
i agree htc brings out to many high tech phones.with a very high price tag.but there are always major bugs.no kinda of exception for a $900 usd phone that all of sudden does't have 3g.
now most us owners lost a good $300 of the price in less than a month because it doesn't support 3g.htc doesn't even say there working on a new radio.
i know apple brings out a new product every 90 days,at least they listen and stay with product updates.
zex11 said:
Do you think when you buy a porsche or a ferrari and you can not drive because the wheel fell of or the windshield blew off in the middle of nowhere the factory tells you: oh sorry this a new model, you keep testing it and maybe if we get enough complaints we will fix it. NO!
When you pay top dollar you get a device that works out of the box,period.
HTC is using us as their testers, but makes us pay a 1000$ for it and lose our time perfecting a half-product they placed on the market before it should be released, plus the customer service treats us as idiots and lies directly : oh we got a lot of good feedback...(yeah right like I was going to call them to say how good a device is), or we dont know anything about a gps lag....f*uck you sit in the car a take a drive idiot!!
The last time I bought HTC!
Getting a nokia. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Oh come on. Everyone knows that if you are an early adopter, things never work quite as they ought to. Happens with every major tech release. It shouldn't but it does.
The reality is that the majority of features on the TP work just fine and fortunately thanks to the geniuses on this forum, the GPS lag has been all but eliminated. No doubt at some point (provided we press HTC), a fix will be released.
So when you get your Nokia, you should look forward to a whole different set of problems - no platform is even close to perfect.
iboogey99 said:
i agree htc brings out to many high tech phones.with a very high price tag.but there are always major bugs.no kinda of exception for a $900 usd phone that all of sudden does't have 3g.
now most us owners lost a good $300 of the price in less than a month because it doesn't support 3g.htc doesn't even say there working on a new radio.
i know apple brings out a new product every 90 days,at least they listen and stay with product updates.
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This post I really can't agree with, when they released it they never intended it for North American sale, and you knew that when you bought it. Did you read the part in the specs where it said UMTS 900/2100? If you did, you should've said "hey, this doesn't work with 3G on AT&T... I'm not going to buy it." Why don't we blame Toyota for their Corolla not running on diesel? Oh yeah, because it was never meant to.
When I got my N95, the battery life was terrible, it kept running out of memory and i had to use hacks to bypass their silly protection and install unsigned apps. I also had to use nemesis suite to hack the device and change the product code to prevent it from loosing Greek when I used Nokia's updater to upgrade the firmware, which cannot be downgraded and now, newer devices and latest firmwares cannot be hacked yet, so if you do buy one you won't be able to install unsigned apps.
At least with HTCs we have this magnificent community to create custom ROMs and rectify most problems. Just my .2 cents
Hands down...best $1100 I've spent in a long time. I knew going into it that I wouldn't have 3G here in the US. The advantages I have over my T-Mobile Wing (US HTC Phone) is countless. I have minimal glitches, but with all phones that do more than make calls, it is to be expected. I'll be a beta tester anytime for HTC!
i totally agree with the OP,in other hand if the devices were perfect we would not have XDA devs
what 1 must realize in todays competitive markets things get rushed out the door to make a buck ,hence why all devices will be never out of beta stage. there is 2 solutions for the problem; 1- stop buying new devices .2- learn to live with it.
well the thing is that HTC doesent even want to realize that their devices have flaws. And all the flaws are software related. In other words fixable. just look at the TyTn2 and the driver issues there. There still is no fix from HTC. And people here on the forum had to use drivers from the Diamond to fix it. HTC just keeps on making excuses like the HTC Pro was never ment to be a multimedia device when support is confronted with the fact that the TP plays video poorer that the Diamond. I know that the pro istn a multimedia device. But i expect that the hardware that i have paid alot of money for actually does what its supposed to. Why on earth shouldnt it? I love my TP, but HTC should reallt take care of their reputation..
faria said:
i totally agree with the OP,in other hand if the devices were perfect we would not have XDA devs
what 1 must realize in todays competitive markets things get rushed out the door to make a buck ,hence why all devices will be never out of beta stage. there is 2 solutions for the problem; 1- stop buying new devices .2- learn to live with it.
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ey man nice to see you again here...
take care and hope everything will be nice for you and yours....
Cheers
I've been developing software for mobile devices for five years, and worked with hundreds of models of handset from Europe and North America. I'd rate HTC devices as "above average" in terms of quality. Nokia are neither better nor worse. Get the first Nokia models of a new series, you're in for some "fun".
I have a Nokia. The MP3 player causes the phone to reboot randomly. If I cross timezones, then when I get home, some birthdays in the calendar have moved to the wrong day. Sometimes, it suddenly stops working, saying that the "SIM Locked", and I can't make or receive calls until I reboot it. It's Orange branded, so the Nokia firmware update tool won't support it. Other than that, it works a treat...
I could give you a similar list of problems with other Nokia models, or Sony Ericssons, or Motorolas... and I wouldn't even consider a Samsung, NEC or LG.
And I suspect that anyone buying a Ferrari for the reliability will be sorely disappointed.
Kevven said:
well the thing is that HTC doesent even want to realize that their devices have flaws. And all the flaws are software related. In other words fixable. just look at the TyTn2 and the driver issues there. There still is no fix from HTC. And people here on the forum had to use drivers from the Diamond to fix it. HTC just keeps on making excuses like the HTC Pro was never ment to be a multimedia device when support is confronted with the fact that the TP plays video poorer that the Diamond. I know that the pro istn a multimedia device. But i expect that the hardware that i have paid alot of money for actually does what its supposed to. Why on earth shouldnt it? I love my TP, but HTC should reallt take care of their reputation..
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and they will never fix that issue because their attention is in the new devices...sad but true.
@jcespi2005
thanks! and the same to you and yours.nice to see you here
It seems to me that what's getting under your skin the most is that customer service is saying their aren't serious problems, and that the phone is primarily working as intended.
Well, thats their job. Have you not ever seen a CSC in person at a corporate office? It's a bunch of highschool grads who don't know anything about anything that just talk nice, create a ticket in whatever helpdesk software they are using, and forward it or close it.
Just call in, politely state your problem, and if they get enough calls logged, development takes notice and things get fixed.
I think what you need more than an $1100 phone, is a $20.00 script for Xanax. Best of luck with Nokia though.
Mobile phone manufacturer in 'not everything works properly' shocker.
Our brand new Audi had a digital display that was on the blink from the moment we bought it. And sometimes the front windows would lower themselves 6 inches after you'd locked the car and walked away. Lots of other owners had the same thing. Think Audi fixed it? Fixed any of them? The replacement Porsche (I'm not showing off here by the way) has an lumpy idle, unreliable horn and the steering pulls harshly to the left. Fixes from Porsche? As if.
In common with a previous poster, my experience with Nokias was far more frustrating than with HTC. And if you want diabolical, allow me a few hours to relate my experience of being the fairly happy owner of a Sony Ericsson P800 even happier with the P900 and then to be floored by the abomination that was the P910. Never never again.
Yes mobile phone manufacturers are guilty of getting things wrong, but in that knowlege, I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
rb14 said:
I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
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I second that statement!
rb14 said:
Mobile phone manufacturer in 'not everything works properly' shocker.
Our brand new Audi had a digital display that was on the blink from the moment we bought it. And sometimes the front windows would lower themselves 6 inches after you'd locked the car and walked away. Lots of other owners had the same thing. Think Audi fixed it? Fixed any of them? The replacement Porsche (I'm not showing off here by the way) has an lumpy idle, unreliable horn and the steering pulls harshly to the left. Fixes from Porsche? As if.
In common with a previous poster, my experience with Nokias was far more frustrating than with HTC. And if you want diabolical, allow me a few hours to relate my experience of being the fairly happy owner of a Sony Ericsson P800 even happier with the P900 and then to be floored by the abomination that was the P910. Never never again.
Yes mobile phone manufacturers are guilty of getting things wrong, but in that knowlege, I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
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Amen to that brother. While I may not own the Touch Pro, Fuze, or whatever the hell you feel like calling it, I know for me personally, HTC has put out some of the best phones I've ever used. I remember way back when, I was in love the Moto Razr (ew, I know) but then I laid eyes on the good ol' boy that was the Cingular 8125 aka the Wizard. I've been hooked on HTC ever since. Lets face it, if you try to go back to a cheesy ass LG or Samsung phone, you're going to be disappointed as all hell. They just don't compare to the customizable nature of the WinMo HTC devices. Granted pretty much all of HTC phones have had (and still have) their share of issues, but lets get real here, they are simply the ****. I've had my 8525 since its release and there's no way I'd switch to the X1 for example. SE?? Would you rather have a WinMo rookie in SE or the season veteran that is HTC? I don't know about you guys, but I like experience.
thunda_chunky said:
I don't know about you guys, but I like experience.
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experience in what? deploying bugs?
@zex11 I agree with you.. but we don't have so many alternatives in WM area.
and nokia is not the solution..
Theutus said:
I think what you need more than an $1100 phone, is a $20.00 script for Xanax. Best of luck with Nokia though.
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Put this in my sig, legendary. haha
Hopefully when Microsoft gets off their lazy asses and overhauls the OS, it will be easier for the manufactures to make a reliable device.
Hey l've got a dilemma
So I got a captivate in July and I LOVE it. But recently it had some service issues and ATT sent me a Focus.
Got the Captivate replaced so now I have two high end phones that are pretty much exactly the same but run different OSs.
I know the answer should be whatever OS you like best, but the problem is that I like things from both.
WP7 is really fun to use and all but it reminds me of my pre-jailbroken iPhone. And Android is awesome (froyo) and all but it doesn't have a very good music service...
Lets get some input!
You do know that you can still use itunes on your computer and sync it to your captivate right?
the focus will prolly get froyo ported before us galaxy S users officially get it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
V DidDy 210 said:
Hey l've got a dilemma
So I got a captivate in July and I LOVE it. But recently it had some service issues and ATT sent me a Focus.
Got the Captivate replaced so now I have two high end phones that are pretty much exactly the same but run different OSs.
I know the answer should be whatever OS you like best, but the problem is that I like things from both.
WP7 is really fun to use and all but it reminds me of my pre-jailbroken iPhone. And Android is awesome (froyo) and all but it doesn't have a very good music service...
Lets get some input!
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Click to collapse
Considering I just went through this myself..
I had an iPhone 3G - recently came off of contract, decided to try the Captivate, WP7 came out - and I was dealing with the well-known problems/issues with that phone (GPS / Random shutdowns).
Since I'm still in my 30-day window - I decided to take the Captivate back and try the WP7. As you've noted - this is really a personal preference with regards to the phone/OS overall.
Personally - I believe WP7 is *close* to the same overall functionality as Android - though, currently, Android has a much more extensive library of applications, etc. (along with the awesome dev support here).
For me, however, it came down to what works "out of the box" as advertised by the phone/manufacturer.
On the Captivate - the GPS worked around 70-80% of the time. The Google Navigation application worked wonderfully - *when* it worked. However, the main problem is - the GPS *doesn't* work consistently. Add to that - when the Captivate started to randomly shutdown and forced several missed calls (I didn't shut the phone down - it just randomly shut down.. WTF?), it became a deal breaker for me.
I've just came back from a business trip with the Focus and, overall, the phone does exactly what it advertises to do: First and foremost - phone calls/functionality are excellent. Second, GPS works out of the box - with (from what I can tell) 98-100% accuracy (immediate startup no waiting - directions are spot on - phone tracks with you easily without any discrepancies). Third, no random shutdowns/dropped calls (yet) - and I've had both phones about an equivalent amount of time now (about 8-10 days each).
Regarding Music: Zune Integration and Music playing via the Focus, though slightly different from the iPhone, IMHO, exceed iTunes/Coverflow of the iPhone. it's a great music player - that automatically downloads relevant information/material regarding the artists/albums you have loaded in your collection/library. I've never really liked iTunes - and Zune's software seems much easier / more integrated to use.
Finally, the Focus, the more that you use it, actually appears to tailor itself to you, the owner, via the pictures / information you enter and setup on the phone. The "people" hub shows random snapshots of all of your contacts. The Pictures hub is extremely well done, immersing your content into the overall look and feel of the OS the more you use it.
Granted - you can extend tweak the Captivate/Android interface much more to your liking, etc. - however - I found the overall experience of the WP7 to be more "personal" the more I used it. I'll also add that I'm much more comfortable with the WP7 interface after using it a week than with the Captivate (both using TouchWiz as well as LauncherPro). It's hard to quantify, but I find WP7 to be easier to quickly pick up, do what I need to do, find the information I need to get, and then quickly put the phone away. I feel like I'm NOT fighting the WP7 interface as much as I did with the Captivate.
This became even more clear during the business trip with my colleague (who has an HTC android phone) where we were comparing notes/basic functionality/tasks between the 2 devices constantly during the entire trip. A prime example: he had to use 2 different applications (google maps, where) to find information out about a restaurant we were attempting to find in the area - whereas everything I needed to find out about the restaurant (directions, website, phone number, reviews) was quickly pulled up in a single bing map search. Overall, any time we "raced" to find the information we needed - the majority of the time I won these little races - primarily - I feel - due to the inherent/"simplistic" nature of the redesigned interface in WP7.
Overall - it really boils down to how you use the phone and what you expect of it. For me it boiled down to if I was comfortable "hacking" the phone (Captivate) in order to get the true (expected) functionality out of it (and subsequently violating TOS in the process), as well as waiting on a potential fix to the GPS/Shutdown issues to show up with Froyo 2.2 (assuming I wait for the official release instead of using one of the 2.2 ROMs here) - or - was I more comfortable with going with WP7 - with everything working as advertised out of the box, along with, again, a proposed future update of additional functionality to be added early next year (i.e. Copy/Paste (not a big deal for me), Turn-By-Turn Navigation (would be extremely nice if this is, in fact, included in the next WP7 update), etc.)
As it stands - I have another 10-12 days left to make my decision (or just return back to my iPhone and wait for awhile). I'm hoping the Froyo 2.2 update will be pushed to Captivate over the next few days (I keep hearing 11/15) in order to get further information. As it stands now - I'm heavily leaning towards keeping the Focus/WP7 unless Froyo 2.2 shows up and reports come in that it corrects the 2 deal breakers (for me that is). If that does happen - I'll have a harder decision to make - otherwise - unless something goes horribly wrong with the Focus - I'll probably be keeping it for the long term.
newter55 said:
You do know that you can still use itunes on your computer and sync it to your captivate right?
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That's not the issue. If you use zune on WP7 you'll know exactly what i'm talking about how its better. I've had a napster to go subscription for ages and it was nice to have that sync with my captivate, but the amount of relevant and fun information afforded to me through the zune + marketplace is truly awesome.
that being said, I'm really big on a filesystem that I can see and manipulate, something the focus doesn't have. Being able to use flash is another HUGE bonus (I updated to froyo about a month ago)
It's annoying because I want to pick and choose different aspects of both. I mean the "metro" UI looks fantastic! but the lack of a settings button drives me absolutely crazy. Office integration is REALLY well done. but widgets and a "desktop" is really nice. Netflix is a nice touch for WP7, but SNES and NES emulators are awesome on Android.
I literally could rifle off this list for hours and the more I use both (i've been switching every other day) the more things I find. I see myself saying "oh man! I can't live without that feature!" all the time only to not have it on the other and then realize that the other has a feature I really like.
it's really tough decision because apart from the flash the two phones are exactly alike.
so there aren't merits to which phone hardware is better either! Though the focus' design is slightly higher end to me though i REALLY like the captivates metal backplate....See what I mean!?!?!
I was simply pointing out that the music issue is....not an issue. For me modding was number one and att has best service in my area so the captivate was a no brainer but I understand that not everyone has the same desires and expectations.
Also, gmaps now, finally integrates places into maps. I have bing for android but have not used the maps in that yet. As for gps, well I agree, though I have been llucky as mine actually works....but I know it is a sore subject for many who have been played by issues with it
So how did you manage to get AT&T to send you a Focus in exchange for a Captivate? I might take a similar deal if it were put on the table
newter55 said:
For me modding was number one and att has best service in my area so the captivate was a no brainer but I understand that not everyone has the same desires and expectations.
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Agreed - I've gone down the route of modding/hacking phones in the past - and, while it's "neat" and "cool" that you can actually affect the look and feel of the Captivate - I guess I've gotten past that a bit now.. in that I'm really just looking for a good, solid, well-working phone out-of-the box - without out any additional effort. That being said - both Android and WP7 have excellent interfaces (although the Captivate is trying to copy the iPhone more than taking the UI in a unique/different route ala HTC Sense - IMHO) - it boils down to a preference on the user. Considering the fact that I'm actually trying to move AWAY from the iPhone UI look/feel - that also explains why I'm, personally, more apt to prefer the WP7 interface...
newter55 said:
Also, gmaps now, finally integrates places into maps. I have bing for android but have not used the maps in that yet. As for gps, well I agree, though I have been llucky as mine actually works....but I know it is a sore subject for many who have been played by issues with it
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Yes - and we compared GMaps results side-by-side with Bing Maps results. It's hard to explain, but (even my colleague with his Android agreed) - the WP7 device (with Bing) has a much more integrated, fine-tuned results output - making it much easier to get to the data you're ultimately looking for.
On the GPS side - yes - I missed the T-b-T routing (and I seriously hope it comes to WP7 in the near future as "promised") that Google Navigation offers. However, I had hoped (and thought for awhile) that my Captivate wouldn't have the same known hardware issues documented on this forum. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. I travel quite a bit during the year, and, even though the iPhone didn't have T-b-T navigation - it always got me where I needed. Captivate didn't meet this need at all (it was REALLY bad at times) - and the WP7 device offers a very similar experience comparable to the iPhone as it stands today.
Looks like there's conflicting reports regarding the 2.2 update (i.e. Europe or U.S.) abound - we'll see if it's pushed today and, if so, if the update *truly* corrects the known issues. I have my doubts though considering various reports from the prior leaked 2.2 builds indicated no improvement.
ScottyNuttz said:
So how did you manage to get AT&T to send you a Focus in exchange for a Captivate? I might take a similar deal if it were put on the table
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I was wondering the exact same thing haha ... my 30 day window expired about 3 months ago ... I was holding out for WP7 but got so damn sick of my iPhone that I leapt into android's loving arms. I love it but boy that new WP7 of a "girl next door" sure is lookin sexy.
ScottyNuttz said:
So how did you manage to get AT&T to send you a Focus in exchange for a Captivate? I might take a similar deal if it were put on the table
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tanneji said:
I was wondering the exact same thing haha ... my 30 day window expired about 3 months ago ... I was holding out for WP7 but got so damn sick of my iPhone that I leapt into android's loving arms. I love it but boy that new WP7 of a "girl next door" sure is lookin sexy.
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I didn't get it in exchange...they sent me a focus and I still have the captivate.
Here's my story...My father has been an ATT customer for some 15-16 years now (since cellularone/bell mobility days) I had an iPhone 3G since 08 (was strictly winmo before that) and was waiting for the streak to come out for att so i could upgrade. got the captivate instead.
BEFORE ALL THAT, my iPhone around June of this year started to just not get service at my house or the surrounding area (I live at college now so it isn't an issue but when I go home it is) But my parents and sister get perfect 5 bar 3G.
I called and complained to ATT and they relented and sent me a backflip as a courtesy (no contract. free). the backflip is a terrible phone, but it somewhat worked in my house and needless to say I was counting the days till the captivate came out.
July 18th I get the captivate and plan on keeping it for a long time. In November, I begin to have that same dropped service issue (now i've switched phones AND sim cards, put my sim in my fams phones no service. put their sims in my phones, full service etc.) There is literally something messed up in my line. So I called ATT to tell them the deal and they sent me the focus if I extended my contract, considering how i did only a few months ago I had no issue doing it for 3 more months.
Moral of the story, If you are a loyal customer and have a big bill (all four of our lines have the 30$ unlimited data) cellular providers will bend over backwards for you.
I'm not proud of this btw. but its frustrating when the one thing a phone is supposed to do, just doesn't work.
Now the focus DOES get service at my home, and the new sim is working pretty good in the captivate (not full service, but manageable) so the debate continues
Ok, it's quite clear android is the most popular phone OS on the market at the moment but I'm beginning to believe that some of their less customer friendly strategies are making the carriers greedy. Back in the day when I was using my original blackjack each time there was an update to Winmo I knew that within a couple weeks ATT would get it my way without fail. Ever since the G1 though there's a new tactic used of course to sell more phones. Basically they can release the same exact phone with a new version of an OS or maybe a small feature (e.g. front facing camera) and sell just as much as the original. I mean why would carriers want to update your phone for you when they could sell you the exact same phone back with the newest version of android which is likely just a palette swap of the previous version? The refusal of most carriers to update their devices kicked off hard even with the initial release of android. The G1 was essentially the same phone as the MT3g except with the amazing keyboard we all fell in love with. The mytouch released months later with the exact same specs (you can even run the exact same roms on them) and yet the mytouch got an update whereas the G didn't. When people asked T-mobile where their G1 update was T-mobile said that it was not possible to run live wallpapers on such a dated device. Ever since then time and time again carriers and OEMs have let us down not because they cant do it but because they can sell us another device if they won't. A big selling point in getting the behold 2 for me was the fact that it would receive every update according to samsung... They never even built the drivers... I was stuck with a phone with a terrible UI. It happens time and time again and now similar things seem to be happening to other OSes. Blackberry is running into the same kind of thing where that more or less never happened before and I'm not ruling windows phone out just yet but I fear with greedy carriers they may end up following suit as much as I hate to admit it. The OEMs and carriers greed is killing smartphones. I mean android is open source and free, if they want to put it on a toaster they can. How hard is it to update? Really? I mean I know there's some one man teams on XDA who can do it... Dont let smartphones die.
It's not Android. It's more Google's policies. I love Google, but they have to grow some balls and tell the manufacturers that in order to be able to release an Android phone with the Google Apps, they need to release updates in X amount of months maximum after an update is delivered and they must support a phone for at least 2 OS iterations.
Forget Apple. Look at Microsoft. Windows Phone 7 isn't really for me since I like to tinker with my phone, although occasionally I wish it wasn't such a time waster. It is a great OS though. Microsoft first of all tells manufacturers that they can include custom apps, but no custom interfaces (this will never happen with Android). Then, they release an upgrade and all the phones get it. I'll admit it's a little easier since all WP7 have mostly the same parts, and definitely the same Snapdragon CPU since that's all WP7 OS supports right now. But this can totally be done by Google. I think the market is over-saturated with Android phones right now. Choice is good, but I don't want to pick up a phone and then immediately have it deemed obsolete. I mean after a while, I just want to walk away. I love Android, but it is getting kind of ridiculous. Obviously, manufacturers won't listen to us. Google is more likely to. They need to get a hold on things.
I see where you're coming ffrom, but you have to remember that companies (all companies) are here to make money. That's it. Make money.
So they'll mmake phones with skins because they get some percentage back from the phone; granted they could offer a pure Google phone but you have to remember: we aren't fhe target audience.
These phones are made for the average consumer that has the default and maybe twitter and facebook.
Of course, there will always be good pure Google phone out there to snag. I just got the Nexus 1 and ill be using this for a long time.
Hey!! This is really a great thread. I am really very impressed with your conversation.
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
butch87402 said:
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
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Well, that's more a T-Mobile issue than an Android issue, but I feel your pain.
All carriers are interested in is selling contracts and phones. They don't really care about peoples experiences after that point. They certainly won't want to encourage people to hang on to the same devices for years, but i think they should obligated to support their phones for at least the duration of the warranty. Any software updates released within that period should be pushed out immediately.
Don't be anxious, when u check technology developments in the past 20 years or more. How can we tell the difference between technology innovation and hunger for money?
'Greedy' is the nature of us human beings and it give us more happy and distress.
It's not the carriers you need to be worried about. Android is a fantastic OS and I love it and have gotten into the inner workings of it lately, to realize one thing: Google drives this whole deal. And since Google makes 98% of its money off of its Adsense program, wouldn't you agree that they would like to maintain/build that as much as possible? The more Google knows about where you are, your likes and dislikes, what you search for, etc, the better they can facilitate their moneymaking process. Google Apps (Gapps) are the way they do this, and why they are not included in a 'real' open souce project. Think it's bad now? Wait till Honeycomb....I've been tweaking this for the past 3 weeks and you wouldn't believe the permission changes that are related to google. Little things that were Hardware processes before (alert me when near an open wifi) are now basically (alert google your location thru gps at all times.). Of course there are ways around it, but the avg. user won't know that. Just fyi.
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
xaccers said:
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
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Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
z33dev33l said:
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
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You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
xaccers said:
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
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Cant say I have much experience with Symbian devices but on Winmo, palm, and earlier blackberries I always got updates. Android has shown they dont need to maintain their devices to sale them and I believe that can have a negative impact on phones as a whole
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
xaccers said:
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
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It's not so much that they prevent it as it is that they dont even really suggest it. It's just like "Oh, btw heres this update. You dont have to put work forth to put it on your device but it's there if you want it. It's really the OEMs and carriers fault as I stated but the fact that android doesnt put something forth to at least suggest it is sad.
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
xaccers said:
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
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Never said I hated android. It's just second best now. Of course phones lose support over time but not before they even hit shelves. When the Galaxy S phones were coming out they were promised a fast update to 2.2. It only took T-mobile 6+ months of customers complaining for them to be the first to update it stateside. My old blackjack made by the exact same company was recieving its last update at the end of my contract a full two years later. The HTC touch did the same, hell even my PPC6800 would've had that not been where I started flashing roms. Android phones are burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit shelves and that is something new. I dont expect a phone to be supported forever but for them to stop support by the time it hits shelves is just sad.
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
xaccers said:
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
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Amen.
[10 char]
xaccers said:
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
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Thats funny because I just flashed my G1 back to stop and I cant access a ton of the apps... I said it was the fault of the carriers and OEMs though I do wish android would at least suggest updating. I mean of all the android devices out there what percent of them do you think actually receive updates through the service providers or OEMs?
Will the HTC Tropy get upgraded to WP8? Will Verizon release new WP8 devices? It sure doesn't seem promising but if you know otherwise, please share.
I don't know if MS has made any promises about "WP8" (which may or may not be the next significant update; my guess is on "not" though). However, it'll still be within contract, so I suspect they will provide the upgrade.
There is no way to tell. It's too early. No final numbers or anything have been said on WP8 to know for sure. All they have listed is a few features, nothing more.
All the first gen WP7 devices are pretty much the same when it comes to Horsepower (CPU/Graphics), some have better screens, some have a few other chips but, internaly for speed and video performace they are pretty much all the same.
What I am getting at is, If MS does not upgrade the Trophy, you might as well forget any first gen devices. If 1 will get it, they all will get it(some later than others but, they all will)
As for Verizon getting a WP8 device, again, WAY too early to tell. Verizon said they were interested in LTE WP7 devices, so there is interest, by the time WP8 comes out, LTE coverage for VZW will be really good. So I would almost say Yes that they will have one, unless there is MAJOR reason for them not to.
SO my answer to both questions is not something you want to hear but, Maybe
Can't seem to have a clear answer... Will VOIP (such as skype, Viber...) work in the background on WP7.8?
In my opinion, this makes a huge difference for most.
If you want to compare Windows phone (the Lumia 900 for example) with other same standard phones... The 900 is amazing. However, it majorly lacks VOIP running in the background.
Recent WP customers may have known the risk of not getting WP8... but the skype thing is something else.
Anyway, I'm just wondering if it's official... will WP7.8 support skype in the background or not?
Probably not, Nothing is written in stone as yet with regards to what will be in WP7.8, Other than the new start screen.
Fingers crosses it will but no one can say if it will or it wont. We'll just have to wait till they release more information on what is in Windows Phone 7.8
AndyFZ1S said:
Probably not, Nothing is written in stone as yet with regards to what will be in WP7.8, Other than the new start screen.
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It kinda is... During the summit they clearly said there is more to 7.8 but that's not what they had gathered for.
Here found this:
http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/06/20/new-nokia-apps-zynga-games-to-make-your-lumia-even-better/
Part that is of our interest -
"Elsewhere, you may have read about the new Windows Phone 8. How does this affect your Lumia? Well, you are not being left out. All Lumia smartphones will be getting an update to give you some of the features of Windows Phone 8, including the new Start screen, as well as a pattern of ongoing updates going forward."
When the summit was summarised, it was told that we will get continuing support from OEMs. I am inclined to believe that OEMs will dish out a range of updates for another 12-15 months or so for WP7 to bring it as close as possible to WP8. When WP8.5 is released, WP7 will truely be dead, which is OK.
Nokia have definitely promised ongoing support including some of their own little extras for camera and ting, No doubt MS will still be forwarding the odd update here and there but we cannot say for definite whether Skype will have background support in WP 7.8. :fingers-crossed:
They made no mention of it, the only thing confirmed coming to WP7.8 is the new start screen. Whether voip or location based apps can run in the background was not mentioned. So far it's just the skin change that is confirmed.
AndyFZ1S said:
Nokia have definitely promised ongoing support including some of their own little extras for camera and ting, No doubt MS will still be forwarding the odd update here and there but we cannot say for definite whether Skype will have background support in WP 7.8. :fingers-crossed:
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I really hope so.
But it's the lack of information/confirmation that is worrying me
In my opinion, it would be more logical for MS to reassure WP7.5 existing and future users as much as they can, if they want to keep selling windows phones now (till WP8 is out). Instead of keeping them in the dark... Unless it's truly just a new start screen (and a couple of minore improvements)
Even if Skype doesn't get integrated, the app itself will develop and evolve. I think WP7.8 will be a little more dev-friendly and hence don't see why VOIP in background wont happen. However, it isnt confirmed as you guys said. We only have to wait 2-3 months more
The really stupid thing is that it would totally be possible to add the most basic of "background" functionality - push notificactions - today. Yeah, that's not as good as the truly integrated experience talked about in WP8, but it's a lot better than what we have right now... and it's been possible (at least, to a limited degree) since launch!