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I know that the Leo has a better processor. Unfortunately I am on verizon and I am in need of a new phone. The touch pro2 seems like an amazing phone but I am worried about how future proof it will be. From what I read up on, the touch pro2 is supposed to be short lived. So I must ask, does anyone think there will be a time in the next year when the touch pro2 wont be able to handle something from the leo or any other snapdragon/tegra device? I know it wont handle it as well, but what are the possibilities of it not handling the program at all? Of course, this is purely speculation, but I just want to see what your opinions are.
flyinonice4 said:
I know that the Leo has a better processor. Unfortunately I am on verizon and I am in need of a new phone. The touch pro2 seems like an amazing phone but I am worried about how future proof it will be. From what I read up on, the touch pro2 is supposed to be short lived. So I must ask, does anyone think there will be a time in the next year when the touch pro2 wont be able to handle something from the leo or any other snapdragon/tegra device? I know it wont handle it as well, but what are the possibilities of it not handling the program at all? Of course, this is purely speculation, but I just want to see what your opinions are.
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Get an HTC TOUCH HD2 mate !!
Here is a comparison of HTC TOUCH HD2 vs HTC TOUCH HD.
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=8348
He's on a US CDMA carrier. Chances are if the HD2 does make it to the US, it'll be 2-3 months before an unlocked US GSM version with American bands, and another 1-2 months before any carriers (CDMA or GSM) pick it up. So... if a phone needs to be purchased any time soon, the HD2 is out of the question.
As for your question, do I think the TP2 will be short lived? Maybe, I think the HD2 is what HTC hopes to be the last hurrah before WM7. If you look at the roadmap that was leaked a while ago for this year, the only device that has not been released yet is the Athena replacement. I don't know if the original Athena was released on VZ, but the Athena replacement is the last phone to be on HTC's leak from earlier this year.
Touch pro 2 does not meet the minimum requirements of Windows Phone 7 but that does not mean that it won't be a phone that lasts. People are still using Hermes phones today. The Qualcomm 7200 processesors in the HD, Diamond 2 and Touch pro 2 will still likly be comparable to other Windows Phone 6.5 devices.
If you dream about having a Windows Phone 7 device when it comes out then hold out the TP2 may not be able to support it. If 6.5 is good enough for you then it's a great phone.
Thanks for the replies guys. My phone just bit the dust so I am really looking into what I can use for awhile. I looked up the leaked windows mobile 7 requirments and am sad to see that the tp2 wont meet that. But, then again, nothing out now or coming out soon will meet that. Hopefully some of these smart rom makers will be able to get us wm7 when we dont meet those requirements.
So basically its either grab the tp2 or wait for the motorola droid. I am not sure how impressed I am with android though. From what we have seen from the droid, it looks good. But I have not been impressed by the past android devices. What do you all think, both on the chance winmo 7 will run on current devices and the choice between the tp2 and droid?
Hmm well I think your choices are fairly limited if you want a new phone now. The TP2 is the same old slow **** we are used to from HTC for years. It will simply not compare to a phone with a modern chipset. Now, I don't have an HD2 yet (though it has been ordered) but I have played with TG01 which - though sometimes also laggy - completely blows the TP2 out of the water.
Not just the TG01 either. The Samsung Omnia II, Omnia Pro, and Armani 2 also completely blow the TP2 away. In fact, I have two TP2's and they have been gathering dust with virtually no use, in favor of the Samsung's, because the TP2 is just so godawfully slow.
The TP2 is in no way future-proof, it will not be able to keep up with your granny, and you will enjoy it a lot less than you might hope. It's a shameful display, scrap metal.
Then again, as I recall the better devices are not available in the US, so you're pretty much stuck with it... but believe me you're not getting your monies worth from it.
As for WM7, the rumor is the kernel testing device is an i780, which cannot keep up with even the TP2. So it's probably technically possible with some hacking to run WM7 on the thing. As for future apps not being able to run, it's quite possible for a handful of apps, though I would not call it likely until we hit WM7.
Chainfire said:
Hmm well I think your choices are fairly limited if you want a new phone now. The TP2 is the same old slow **** we are used to from HTC for years. It will simply not compare to a phone with a modern chipset. Now, I don't have an HD2 yet (though it has been ordered) but I have played with TG01 which - though sometimes also laggy - completely blows the TP2 out of the water.
Not just the TG01 either. The Samsung Omnia II, Omnia Pro, and Armani 2 also completely blow the TP2 away. In fact, I have two TP2's and they have been gathering dust with virtually no use, in favor of the Samsung's, because the TP2 is just so godawfully slow.
The TP2 is in no way future-proof, it will not be able to keep up with your granny, and you will enjoy it a lot less than you might hope. It's a shameful display, scrap metal.
Then again, as I recall the better devices are not available in the US, so you're pretty much stuck with it... but believe me you're not getting your monies worth from it.
As for WM7, the rumor is the kernel testing device is an i780, which cannot keep up with even the TP2. So it's probably technically possible with some hacking to run WM7 on the thing. As for future apps not being able to run, it's quite possible for a handful of apps, though I would not call it likely until we hit WM7.
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Yea I am definitely stuck in the US. Plus I want a hardware keyboard. So that takes out a lot of them. From a strictly verizon bound device, what would you recommend chainfire?
Also, thanks for the info on the i780. Thats something that brightened up my outlook on winmo7.
Side note: I played around with the tp2 and liked it and thought it was pretty fast. But this is coming from a guy who hasn't been able to touch a device with modern chipsets.
flyinonice4 said:
Yea I am definitely stuck in the US. Plus I want a hardware keyboard. So that takes out a lot of them. From a strictly verizon bound device, what would you recommend chainfire?
Also, thanks for the info on the i780. Thats something that brightened up my outlook on winmo7.
Side note: I played around with the tp2 and liked it and thought it was pretty fast. But this is coming from a guy who hasn't been able to touch a device with modern chipsets.
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I think with your requirements the TP2 is pretty much the only "choice" you have, though I am not intimate with what Verizon has on offer.
The question (for you - and only you can answer this) is, do you want to spend the ****load of money the TP2 will cost you on a device like the TP2 ? Perhaps you would be better off bridging the period until HD2+kb release with a dumbphone, or whatever. That's a personal thing, I don't know how the contract structure works with Verizon, how much it'll cost you, what you have to spend, how long you will be stuck with it, etc. And then, it is matter of how heavily those different parts of the equation weigh for you.
You just need to be aware of what you are buying - if you are, and are happy with it, great.
The new rumor is that the HD 2 cdma, the HTC Passion, will soon be in Verizon stores powered by Android 2.0
It may be time to wait , at least a little while longer.
http://theunlockr.com/2009/10/25/mystery-htc-android-handset-has-a-name-and-a-carrier/
Chainfire said:
I think with your requirements the TP2 is pretty much the only "choice" you have, though I am not intimate with what Verizon has on offer.
The question (for you - and only you can answer this) is, do you want to spend the ****load of money the TP2 will cost you on a device like the TP2 ? Perhaps you would be better off bridging the period until HD2+kb release with a dumbphone, or whatever. That's a personal thing, I don't know how the contract structure works with Verizon, how much it'll cost you, what you have to spend, how long you will be stuck with it, etc. And then, it is matter of how heavily those different parts of the equation weigh for you.
You just need to be aware of what you are buying - if you are, and are happy with it, great.
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Hmmmm. I am going to have to look this over more. I hope an hd2+kb comes out soon, but I think that would be 6months or so (especially in the US) before we ever see that coming about. Ideally, I would want to go with a phone that you mentioned thats better than the tp2. Perhaps in a year we may see some of those hit verizon or others with 7 already installed on them. Speculation is killing me as I want to wait it out, but don't know how long I can last. I use my phone pretty heavily for business purposes. Given htc's track record, when would you predict an hd2+kb would be out?
EDIT: I posted the above before I saw denco's bit. Any word as to when it should be in stores? In the past I haven't been all that impressed with android, but maybe 2.0 will turn a new leaf for me.
flyinonice4 said:
Hmmmm. I am going to have to look this over more. I hope an hd2+kb comes out soon, but I think that would be 6months or so (especially in the US) before we ever see that coming about. Ideally, I would want to go with a phone that you mentioned thats better than the tp2. Perhaps in a year we may see some of those hit verizon or others with 7 already installed on them. Speculation is killing me as I want to wait it out, but don't know how long I can last. I use my phone pretty heavily for business purposes. Given htc's track record, when would you predict an hd2+kb would be out?
EDIT: I posted the above before I saw denco's bit. Any word as to when it should be in stores? In the past I haven't been all that impressed with android, but maybe 2.0 will turn a new leaf for me.
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InfoSync said soon, but all others say early next year, check out the link for more rumored Verizon future offering
http://theunlockr.com/2009/10/25/mystery-htc-android-handset-has-a-name-and-a-carrier/
Ok, it's quite clear android is the most popular phone OS on the market at the moment but I'm beginning to believe that some of their less customer friendly strategies are making the carriers greedy. Back in the day when I was using my original blackjack each time there was an update to Winmo I knew that within a couple weeks ATT would get it my way without fail. Ever since the G1 though there's a new tactic used of course to sell more phones. Basically they can release the same exact phone with a new version of an OS or maybe a small feature (e.g. front facing camera) and sell just as much as the original. I mean why would carriers want to update your phone for you when they could sell you the exact same phone back with the newest version of android which is likely just a palette swap of the previous version? The refusal of most carriers to update their devices kicked off hard even with the initial release of android. The G1 was essentially the same phone as the MT3g except with the amazing keyboard we all fell in love with. The mytouch released months later with the exact same specs (you can even run the exact same roms on them) and yet the mytouch got an update whereas the G didn't. When people asked T-mobile where their G1 update was T-mobile said that it was not possible to run live wallpapers on such a dated device. Ever since then time and time again carriers and OEMs have let us down not because they cant do it but because they can sell us another device if they won't. A big selling point in getting the behold 2 for me was the fact that it would receive every update according to samsung... They never even built the drivers... I was stuck with a phone with a terrible UI. It happens time and time again and now similar things seem to be happening to other OSes. Blackberry is running into the same kind of thing where that more or less never happened before and I'm not ruling windows phone out just yet but I fear with greedy carriers they may end up following suit as much as I hate to admit it. The OEMs and carriers greed is killing smartphones. I mean android is open source and free, if they want to put it on a toaster they can. How hard is it to update? Really? I mean I know there's some one man teams on XDA who can do it... Dont let smartphones die.
It's not Android. It's more Google's policies. I love Google, but they have to grow some balls and tell the manufacturers that in order to be able to release an Android phone with the Google Apps, they need to release updates in X amount of months maximum after an update is delivered and they must support a phone for at least 2 OS iterations.
Forget Apple. Look at Microsoft. Windows Phone 7 isn't really for me since I like to tinker with my phone, although occasionally I wish it wasn't such a time waster. It is a great OS though. Microsoft first of all tells manufacturers that they can include custom apps, but no custom interfaces (this will never happen with Android). Then, they release an upgrade and all the phones get it. I'll admit it's a little easier since all WP7 have mostly the same parts, and definitely the same Snapdragon CPU since that's all WP7 OS supports right now. But this can totally be done by Google. I think the market is over-saturated with Android phones right now. Choice is good, but I don't want to pick up a phone and then immediately have it deemed obsolete. I mean after a while, I just want to walk away. I love Android, but it is getting kind of ridiculous. Obviously, manufacturers won't listen to us. Google is more likely to. They need to get a hold on things.
I see where you're coming ffrom, but you have to remember that companies (all companies) are here to make money. That's it. Make money.
So they'll mmake phones with skins because they get some percentage back from the phone; granted they could offer a pure Google phone but you have to remember: we aren't fhe target audience.
These phones are made for the average consumer that has the default and maybe twitter and facebook.
Of course, there will always be good pure Google phone out there to snag. I just got the Nexus 1 and ill be using this for a long time.
Hey!! This is really a great thread. I am really very impressed with your conversation.
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
butch87402 said:
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
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Well, that's more a T-Mobile issue than an Android issue, but I feel your pain.
All carriers are interested in is selling contracts and phones. They don't really care about peoples experiences after that point. They certainly won't want to encourage people to hang on to the same devices for years, but i think they should obligated to support their phones for at least the duration of the warranty. Any software updates released within that period should be pushed out immediately.
Don't be anxious, when u check technology developments in the past 20 years or more. How can we tell the difference between technology innovation and hunger for money?
'Greedy' is the nature of us human beings and it give us more happy and distress.
It's not the carriers you need to be worried about. Android is a fantastic OS and I love it and have gotten into the inner workings of it lately, to realize one thing: Google drives this whole deal. And since Google makes 98% of its money off of its Adsense program, wouldn't you agree that they would like to maintain/build that as much as possible? The more Google knows about where you are, your likes and dislikes, what you search for, etc, the better they can facilitate their moneymaking process. Google Apps (Gapps) are the way they do this, and why they are not included in a 'real' open souce project. Think it's bad now? Wait till Honeycomb....I've been tweaking this for the past 3 weeks and you wouldn't believe the permission changes that are related to google. Little things that were Hardware processes before (alert me when near an open wifi) are now basically (alert google your location thru gps at all times.). Of course there are ways around it, but the avg. user won't know that. Just fyi.
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
xaccers said:
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
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Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
z33dev33l said:
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
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You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
xaccers said:
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
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Cant say I have much experience with Symbian devices but on Winmo, palm, and earlier blackberries I always got updates. Android has shown they dont need to maintain their devices to sale them and I believe that can have a negative impact on phones as a whole
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
xaccers said:
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
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It's not so much that they prevent it as it is that they dont even really suggest it. It's just like "Oh, btw heres this update. You dont have to put work forth to put it on your device but it's there if you want it. It's really the OEMs and carriers fault as I stated but the fact that android doesnt put something forth to at least suggest it is sad.
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
xaccers said:
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
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Never said I hated android. It's just second best now. Of course phones lose support over time but not before they even hit shelves. When the Galaxy S phones were coming out they were promised a fast update to 2.2. It only took T-mobile 6+ months of customers complaining for them to be the first to update it stateside. My old blackjack made by the exact same company was recieving its last update at the end of my contract a full two years later. The HTC touch did the same, hell even my PPC6800 would've had that not been where I started flashing roms. Android phones are burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit shelves and that is something new. I dont expect a phone to be supported forever but for them to stop support by the time it hits shelves is just sad.
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
xaccers said:
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
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Amen.
[10 char]
xaccers said:
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
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Thats funny because I just flashed my G1 back to stop and I cant access a ton of the apps... I said it was the fault of the carriers and OEMs though I do wish android would at least suggest updating. I mean of all the android devices out there what percent of them do you think actually receive updates through the service providers or OEMs?
are there no wp7 phones besides the trophy for verizon?
Not yet. They don't seem to care much about WP7. I'm more surprised that Sprint doesn't have any new ones, though.
Verizon, ha ha ha... They don't care for Windows Phones after the Kin incident; so they say. In my opinion MS should just drop Verizon period. I mean really I can't even get the update that keeps my Keyboard from disappearing because Verizon says that the update isn't significant enough but they turn around and release ever last Android update
Oh to be fair, they don't come anywhere near releasing every single Android update. My roommate's Droid - yes, the phone that Verizon marketed the hell out of - was one update behind when he put Cyanogen7 on it, and the official release is now two updates behind. It's only just reaching the end of the two-year contract though.
That's not to say they give a damn about WP7, because the evidence is pretty good that they don't, but they don't treat Android *that* much better. Screw 'em, the whole company sucks (I know, I tried them). Two years of their BS was 730 days too long.
GoodDayToDie said:
Oh to be fair, they don't come anywhere near releasing every single Android update. My roommate's Droid - yes, the phone that Verizon marketed the hell out of - was one update behind when he put Cyanogen7 on it, and the official release is now two updates behind. It's only just reaching the end of the two-year contract though.
That's not to say they give a damn about WP7, because the evidence is pretty good that they don't, but they don't treat Android *that* much better. Screw 'em, the whole company sucks (I know, I tried them). Two years of their BS was 730 days too long.
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You should know if you were a Android owner, your lucky to get 1 update to a newer version of software on any carrier, very few phones get 2-3 version upgrades. A 2 year old phone ? Good luck, after about 6 months your lucky to get anything.
It's one of the bigger problems with Android. Android is NOT Android if one person has 2.1 and the next person has 4.0 but, they are all called Android, right ?
If you have a Android device and you want to update it, Rooting it is the only way to go...because you wont get it from your carrer.
Some of the issues you don't have to deal with on WP7...
Will anyone be supporting the htc arrive to possibly build an Apollo rom once the code is released so we can get even a small taste of the windows phone 8 magic?
With XDA it seems almost anything is possible but I certainly wouldnt hold my breath, At this point Im more wondering whether or not the Arrive will get 7.8. Its also confounding that sprint seems to be the only of the "big 4" carriers that havent committed to wp8.
Agreed, I'd love to see another windows phone on the sprint network, especially a wp8 with support for lte
I think personally when WP8 comes out I will just buy the first one with a proper keyboard. I haven't been in a situation where I've not wanted another smartphone in a long time, but unfortunately I just use it so much that my 7 Pro isn't going to last much past the end of the year I fear...
i have a galaxy nexus now, the reason i have it is because i dropped and smashed my focus s a few months back. i liked my focus s, however, windows phone at the time, although an excellent platform, seemed a little un-polished, or not quite done yet.
have any of the updates since february brought actual turn by turn (the stock navi app that is, not nokia maps)?
have any of the current devices been confirmed to getting the wp8 update?
are there any google talk apps that work? octrotalk, im+ and gchat never seemed to work for me.
i was thinking of seeing if anyone wanted to trade a lumia 900 for my gnex, so the lumia 900 is what i would be getting.
"Actual" turn-by-turn where the OS warns you as you approach a turn (which is the most glaring lack in the current implementation) is apparently slated for WP8. There's absolutely no technical reason it couldn't be backported, but then, there's no technical reason for the current design either. It's apparently due to a licensing fiasco regarding the use of the map data.
No, in fact everything that I've heard has said that current devices will not get WP8 at all. 7.8 has been announced, but we know very little about it so far except that it has the WP8 Start screen. There's always a chance of WP7.9 update next year too, but don't count on it.
IM+ works just fine for me on GTalk. It's a bit slower starting up than might be nice, but it certainly works just fine. If it didn't work for you, I can't really help you out here without knowing more.
GoodDayToDie said:
"Actual" turn-by-turn where the OS warns you as you approach a turn (which is the most glaring lack in the current implementation) is apparently slated for WP8. There's absolutely no technical reason it couldn't be backported, but then, there's no technical reason for the current design either. It's apparently due to a licensing fiasco regarding the use of the map data.
No, in fact everything that I've heard has said that current devices will not get WP8 at all. 7.8 has been announced, but we know very little about it so far except that it has the WP8 Start screen. There's always a chance of WP7.9 update next year too, but don't count on it.
IM+ works just fine for me on GTalk. It's a bit slower starting up than might be nice, but it certainly works just fine. If it didn't work for you, I can't really help you out here without knowing more.
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i missed a lot of messages with im+/octro/gchat
i'll hold off on seeing how the wp8 devices look. my wifes focus should be here today. going to get nokia drive on it for her.