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[Q] Android and "Openess"

While I know this might not be the greatest place to put this here, and I'm not trying to start any flame wars, but I figured because this topic implies the bettering of our phones, I thought I should put this here.
With the recent Google affair about not releasing the source code on Honeycomb, how open can we expect Android to be? Technically speaking, the only open thing about Android is the app store, and even that has seen better days.
While some people think that Google is doing this just because they feel like it, I honestly believe that they rushed somewhere and need to patch the hole before more malware-like apps enter the app store and wreak havoc on Honeycomb.
So I leave the question here, what do you guys think about this whole ordeal, and has this effected your views on Google in anyway?

They will release it
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

They have to release it, it is open source.

liorweitz said:
They have to release it, it is open source.
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Click to collapse
No they don't if they dont want to!
Go and read up on the Apache Software Licence, which Android is licensed under.
That being said, I fully expect Google to release the source code when they are good and ready.
Regards,
Dave

I also believe that they abuse the term open, anyway.
Sent from my Droid using XDA Premium App

Protocol 7 said:
I also believe that they abuse the term open, anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Openness means, among others, that you can grab sources, close them and release only binaries. Otherwise it would be copyleft, not true openness.

[REF]Help To Release Kernel Source Code (Released 10/19/2011 Thanks to all!)

We need to bomb HTC's website with comments to encourage them to release the kernel source code for our device. I suggest we all go to the following link daily and request its release;
http://htcdev.com/contact
HTC just sent me a link to take a survey, another good tool to blast them with.
http://survey.htc.com/worldwide
Code has been released, I like to think all our complaints helped. Feel free to lock this thread if need be!
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads

We have been. I've sent them several notices on a near daily basis.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

I doubt that that link is anything more than a placebo.
http://www.htc.com/us/about/contact-by-email
Say something along the lines of "you're in violation of GPLv2 which requires that source be released along with binary. GPLv2 does not allow for anything besides release of source NOT being ANY LATER than binary distribution."
I.e., though GPLv2 doesn't specify an exact time frame, the implication of this is that the source must be made available by the EXACT MOMENT that the binary is distributed. It *does* allow for the source to be released BEFORE the binary, but does NOT allow for the binary to be released before the source.
IMO, the kernel source archive should be included within the system partition of the phone, at least for early releases while there is sufficient storage space for it all to fit. This would greatly simply source distribution.

Even though I went to that page and asked for the kernel source code to be released, it looks like they're on a pretty routine schedule as far as what and when they release things and we're probably still a little ways out on the source code. But it can't HURT to keep trying, right?

Submitted. Hopefully they'll listen up.

BiggJurk said:
We need to bomb HTC's website with comments to encourage them to release the kernel source code for our device. I suggest we all go to the following link daily and request its release;
http://htcdev.com/contact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we have been. As unclespoon said they are on a fairly set release schedule that they must be comfortable with [legal-wise].
Read my replies here, there is another link that got me a response that was from a human:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1247374

HTC does this **** on purpose. They have a bunch of new devices coming out and if they were to release the code that would impact there profit margins. This processor can handle 1.5 ghz as a daily driver. The new HTC amaze has exact same processor but is overclocked 300mhz more then our device. And it has a 1gb of RAM. Samsung has gotten great at releasing there code within 1 week or even earlier. HTC PLEASE TAKE NOTES FROM SAMSUNG.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

FYI
I filled out a customer service survey from HTC and gave them all bad ratings in regards to their non-response for the kernel source code. A representative just personally called me and is trying to get an eta on the release if not email me a copy of the code. I would suggest everyone completes a survey with negative comments at the following location:http://survey.htc.com/worldwide. I know surveys like this affects their metrics and gets managements attention. The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
Regards,

Filled out the survey.
Let's see if they respond.

cal3thousand said:
Filled out the survey.
Let's see if they respond.
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Click to collapse
I think it took them 2 weeks to get back to me.

BiggJurk said:
I think it took them 2 weeks to get back to me.
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Click to collapse
My guess is that they'll "get back to you" in a month or however long until they would have normally released the source code. I think they're too big to be bothered by people complaining about lack of source code. Bottom line is there probably won't ever be any "consequences" as a result of them taking their time on releasing kernel source. We only complain because we want it, but it's not like they are really doing anything wrong by just releasing it on their own schedule.

BiggJurk said:
The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
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Click to collapse
I've heard that before, but I don't see how that's possible since Android is based on Linux. If it were based on BSD that'd be another matter.

BiggJurk said:
The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
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Click to collapse
Wow, congrats to phone guy!! Unfortunately, either he was trying to get you to shut-up or misunderstood what you wanted them to release. Google mostly licensed Android with the Apache 2.0. This allows others to customize Android and they don't have to release their changes i.e. customizations made by phone manufacturers (it means other things too but this was Google's main reason for this license). HTC doesn't have to give us their Android source. The Linux kernel is GPL - there is no way around that. The GPL states that the source must be released at the same time as the binary is released to the end-user (it even states that the source should be no harder to obtain than the binary is i.e. we should get the kernel source with our devices - on the sd card or something). Still have no idea where HTC gets 90-120 days from the GPL wording.
I sent a note to EFF asking if they were aware of whats going on. They said they were and were researching the situation.
---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------
unclespoon said:
but it's not like they are really doing anything wrong by just releasing it on their own schedule.
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Click to collapse
They are though. They are directly violating the GNU GPL but you are right - there are too few of us who actually want the kernel source for them to really worry. Can't believe one of the actual Linux kernel devs hasn't caught wind of this and made a statement.

I sent a couple of requests. Let's hope they move their asses.

Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads

HebrewToYou said:
Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
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Click to collapse
I think you were the first one to find it. I thanked you elsewhere you've mentioned it as well.
Maybe the OP can come through and update the thread title.
Edit to add - download reads 94.0MB on the HTC page, but my download over Tmo 4g is saying out of 89.6MB and my home pc is saying 89.7MB...so we'll see what's up when I get it.

YES!!! Time to OC this bad boy..
Please get on it Devs..!!!

RazoE said:
YES!!! Time to OC this bad boy..
Please get on it Devs..!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All ready on it
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium

That's funny.
I just received the HTC reply to my request. I'm going to play like my request was the straw for that camel's back... Your Welcome Everybody!!!
j/k. This is wonderful news though. I'm stoked

Thread locked by OP request

Sick of the LG - Nvidia ICS driver issues...

Ok so we all know LG and Nvidia is not providing drivers for our phone...
Hence partially complete ICS roms with no camera or video....
Why dont we petition LG and Nvidia to release these drivers or release ICS for the G2x... If enough of us come together we might be able to get this done???
Ive seen some posts about a 2nd quarter release for ICS for the p990 and then waiting for a port of that for the p999 but it sounds like speculation...
lets see what the collective minds of XDA have to say about this....

MODERATOR PLEASE STEP IN FOR ONCE combine this thread with the two others that we already have, pertaining to the "petition" matter...
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium

mt3g said:
MODERATOR PLEASE STEP IN FOR ONCE combine this thread with the two others that we already have, pertaining to the "petition" matter...
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 also the search button works awesome, should try it sometime..

kcxda78 said:
Ok so we all know LG and Nvidia is not providing drivers for our phone...
Hence partially complete ICS roms with no camera or video....
Why dont we petition LG and Nvidia to release these drivers or release ICS for the G2x... If enough of us come together we might be able to get this done???
Ive seen some posts about a 2nd quarter release for ICS for the p990 and then waiting for a port of that for the p999 but it sounds like speculation...
lets see what the collective minds of XDA have to say about this....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Been done many times.

These threads are getting annoying. Go complain on Facebook or something similar.
Sent from my amazing G2x running EaglesBlood and Faux.

theking_13 said:
These threads are getting annoying. Go complain on Facebook or something similar.
Sent from my amazing G2x running EaglesBlood and Faux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been emailing LG customer service every day since I started my thread.
Personally I think you guys drastically overrate how much they care what you post on their Facebook and twitter

r.snyder said:
I've been emailing LG customer service every day since I started my thread.
Personally I think you guys drastically overrate how much they care what you post on their Facebook and twitter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LG has NO CONTROL whatsoever of what Nvidia does or doesn't do.
If you're going to bother anyone, bother Nvidia. Be smart, do some research, and stop wasting LG's time with what they can't do.
Sent from my amazing G2x running EaglesBlood and Faux.

theking_13 said:
LG has NO CONTROL whatsoever of what Nvidia does or doesn't do.
If you're going to bother anyone, bother Nvidia. Be smart, do some research, and stop wasting LG's time with what they can't do.
Sent from my amazing G2x running EaglesBlood and Faux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nvidia says it would be LG who would release HAL and told LG that they shouldn't. Nvidia will provide HAL to LG.
Its a hard no from nvidia. LG has the HAL and the right to release it.

r.snyder said:
Nvidia says it would be LG who would release HAL and told LG that they shouldn't. Nvidia will provide HAL to LG.
Its a hard no from nvidia. LG has the HAL and the right to release it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either way, we're not getting the drivers. Haha
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium

r.snyder said:
Nvidia says it would be LG who would release HAL and told LG that they shouldn't. Nvidia will provide HAL to LG.
Its a hard no from nvidia. LG has the HAL and the right to release it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be True, but Nvidia has to get the drivers to LG before they can get them to us.

WE WONT GET THEM STFU ALREADY.
If you want full ICS, buy a phone running it. If you can't afford it/dont want it, beggars can't be choosers. Srs.
Sent from my amazing G2x running EaglesBlood and Faux.

This is the problem with people now these days. You people just allow THE MAN to f*ck and you guys just bend down and take it. Fight for your rights and as a consumer you deserve to have support of a product at least for a miserable year. The people just accepting the fact that we won't get ics are the same ones that will allow banks and government to manipulate and decide what's going to happen to them. This is a great example of what's wrong with this world now these days. You guys get ****ted on by people with power and you guys gladly bathe in it. Its amazing. I support what this guy is doing but nothing will change until all you conformist decide to join in numbers and take actions. You people are sickening.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium

That may very well be the case, but we can't do anything until LG doesn't make on theie word! They have publicly come out and said they plan on proving the update to these phones and I quote: "Optimus 2X, the Optimus Black, the Optimus 3D and the Optimus LTE." They have mentioned the Optimus 2X series in a post before, but I cannot find nor do I choose to do the searching for all of you. I did find this before and it has been posted before.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/lg-m...40-ice-cream-sandwich-upgrade/316431148368212
I have also commented on one their post on Facebook and they relied to me saying they "plan on releasing an ICS update to the G2X sometime in the 2nd quarter" I have posted the screenshot somewhere on these forums of the statement they said to me.
Basically take a chill pill and try to not let the phone community make you sick to your stomach, and if you want, keep posting things on here that make me laugh.

jghidalgo307 said:
This is the problem with people now these days. You people just allow THE MAN to f*ck and you guys just bend down and take it. Fight for your rights and as a consumer you deserve to have support of a product at least for a miserable year. The people just accepting the fact that we won't get ics are the same ones that will allow banks and government to manipulate and decide what's going to happen to them. This is a great example of what's wrong with this world now these days. You guys get ****ted on by people with power and you guys gladly bathe in it. Its amazing. I support what this guy is doing but nothing will change until all you conformist decide to join in numbers and take actions. You people are sickening.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought a phone, by buying that phone lg and nvidia promises to update it and keep it functional. Last i checked they did this. It was updated from Froyo to gb and using a stock gb ROM everything works. Stop demanding **** from these companies.
If you buy a cake and you like it, do you demand that the chef give you his recipe!?
If you buy a car do you demand that they give you a new engine every 6 months so that your car is as good as the new ones???
The phone works fine on gb, and aside from looks, ics adds very little at this point. Stop *****ing, they don't owe you anything!
if you ask me, they don't need to update any further, but it looks like they will. Yes, for NO EXTRA MONETARY GAIN a company will put time and effort into making a product (which is now past its scheduled EOL) better than it was ever meant to be.
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

jghidalgo307 said:
This is the problem with people now these days. You people just allow THE MAN to f*ck and you guys just bend down and take it. Fight for your rights and as a consumer you deserve to have support of a product at least for a miserable year. The people just accepting the fact that we won't get ics are the same ones that will allow banks and government to manipulate and decide what's going to happen to them. This is a great example of what's wrong with this world now these days. You guys get ****ted on by people with power and you guys gladly bathe in it. Its amazing. I support what this guy is doing but nothing will change until all you conformist decide to join in numbers and take actions. You people are sickening.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the contrary, it's people like you that think everything is worth blowing up over that's sickening.
I hardly doubt that not caring about some f'in phone software, that the company has every right not to release, has anything to do with people letting the government do anything.
It's an issue that probably less than 1% of the phones owners care about. If it bothered you so much you should have exercised your consumer rights and returned the phone immediately and got something else. That would have shown LG/NVIDIA you mean business.
Stop the hyperbole please.
XDA Mobile

Klathmon said:
You bought a phone, by buying that phone lg and nvidia promises to update it and keep it functional. Last i checked they did this. It was updated from Froyo to gb and using a stock gb ROM everything works. Stop demanding **** from these companies.
If you buy a cake and you like it, do you demand that the chef give you his recipe!?
If you buy a car do you demand that they give you a new engine every 6 months so that your car is as good as the new ones???
The phone works fine on gb, and aside from looks, ics adds very little at this point. Stop *****ing, they don't owe you anything!
if you ask me, they don't need to update any further, but it looks like they will. Yes, for NO EXTRA MONETARY GAIN a company will put time and effort into making a product (which is now past its scheduled EOL) better than it was ever meant to be.
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the G2x User Manual under Phone Software Update.
NOTE: LG reserves the right to make firmware
updates available only for selective models at its own
discretion and does not guarantee the availability
of the newer version of the firmware for all handset
models.

Klathmon said:
You bought a phone, by buying that phone lg and nvidia promises to update it and keep it functional. Last i checked they did this. It was updated from Froyo to gb and using a stock gb ROM everything works. Stop demanding **** from these companies.
If you buy a cake and you like it, do you demand that the chef give you his recipe!?
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you miss this being open source? Or what open source is about?
In your analogy it would be a community recipe. And it would be like a chef not letting people in on his input.
The whole point is growth through the community. LG views the open source community as a burden instead of utilizing us as an asset.

r.snyder said:
Did you miss this being open source? Or what open source is about?
In your analogy it would be a community recipe. And it would be like a chef not letting people in on his input.
The whole point is growth through the community. LG views the open source community as a burden instead of utilizing us as an asset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is open source, not the drivers for tegra 2, nor any modifications that nvidia or lg made to it.
Nvidia has released everything they were required to, as did lg.
As for everything else, they have every right to keep those to themselves.
It's not just my opinion, it's googles.
And to your last part, yes they do see open source as bad for them, (and partly they should). They spent lots of time and money developing this phone, and it's bad for business if someone can just take it all and give it away for free.
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

Klathmon said:
Android is open source, not the drivers for tegra 2, nor any modifications that nvidia or lg made to it.
Nvidia has released everything they were required to, as did lg.
As for everything else, they have every right to keep those to themselves.
It's not just my opinion, it's googles.
And to your last part, yes they do see open source as bad for them, (and partly they should). They spent lots of time and money developing this phone, and it's bad for business if someone can just take it all and give it away for free.
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the HAL took a single line from aosp to make they are violating open source agreements by not releasing it.
Beyond that if it shares no code they are still violating the spirit of open source by not sharing. They recieve the benifit of open source with every device they sell. They are supposed to contribute back. At least provide what's needed to make your hardware work.
They found a loophole to be able to keep benifiting from others code but keep what they make proprietary. Way back when these leechers would be blackballed.

I went to the microsoft store and traded in my mytouch 3G for a new samsung focus s, screw LG.
Using gingerbread is like going back to old windows. Using ICS on G2X is like using windows 7 without graphics driver. Time for a proper ICS device.

Petition LG for ICS

Found this petition in the O2x Forums, might as well spread awareness.
Petition Link: http://www.change.org/petitions/lg-...s-speed-and-change-your-information-politic-2
Original Thread in The O2x Forums: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1789058
Edit: added link to petition
Sent From My Handheld Portal Device

Bump
Sent From My Handheld Portal Device

LG doesnt care, Nvidia cares even less...
LG cant do anything without Nvidia's driver development anyway because Nvidia wont release any information on their hardware.... stop trying

JHaste said:
LG doesnt care, Nvidia cares even less...
LG cant do anything without Nvidia's driver development anyway because Nvidia wont release any information on their hardware.... stop trying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't hurt to sign though
Sent From My Handheld Portal Device

Waste of time. LG cannot release an update without carrier permission on co-branded phones. Never going to happen on an EOL'd device.

Never hurts to try. A little bit of unity amongst people can go a long way.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda app-developers app

honestly the best bet for anyone getting phones to get updates through the life of the contract you sign would be filing a lawsuit on the bases of security updates not being released and the manufactures and carriers not fixing security flaws. But for that to happen it would be rather costly to go after multiple companies.

It's been done. No, it doesn't hurt to try.
I can no longer stomach the G2x.

Four more signatures to 1000...

G2XPerson said:
Four more signatures to 1000...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's keep it going
Sent From My Handheld Portal Device

oops ....bumped up from 1000 to 1500 ???

Just signed, thanks.

Signed. Hoping more people will do the same and perhaps something will come of it.... not getting my hopes up, or holding my breath though :S
Pin it to Win it.

DONE!

Why are we trying to petition LG when we should be petitioning Nvidia to give us those drivers.

unknownz_1 said:
Why are we trying to petition LG when we should be petitioning Nvidia to give us those drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont know, im just the messenger. Why dont you make a petition for that?
Sent From My Handheld Portal Device

Bcuz nvidia is obligated to provide to lg not to community.
Sent via G2X-SINGH-UI

signed with rage!

Bump
Sent From My Handheld Portal Device

Kernel Source code galaxy note 3 released

http://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=search&searchValue=SM-N900

What is the benifit of this ...in devloping roms

It's for kernels. Which is just as important
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Let the custom kernels come!
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

For the uninformed, custom kernels can add many new features under the hood. Specifically, things like overclocking and additional filesystem support. They may be more efficient, faster, or allow certain apps to do things not currently possible. They may be required to bypass certain system restrictions, the list goes on.
Suffice it to say, custom kernels are the first step in proper custom ROMs.

Man I hope wanam is all over this..we need adam kernel on the N3!
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda premium

ipsuvedi said:
What is the benifit of this ...in devloping roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm FING HUGE!!! No kernel source is the reason so many Motorola devices got left in the dust, sand subsequent why I'll never buy another moto device again.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda app-developers app

nickzan said:
Ummm FING HUGE!!! No kernel source is the reason so many Motorola devices got left in the dust, sand subsequent why I'll never buy another moto device again.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought they had to release the Kernel source by law? It's GPL.

neoKushan said:
I thought they had to release the Kernel source by law? It's GPL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, they do. But try and make them if they're not playing nice

piit79 said:
Yeah, they do. But try and make them if they're not playing nice
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Click to collapse
Time to get the EFF involved!

Sammy joke us I think, with this knox thing I'm holding myself not to root yet and now kernels will appear and I don't know what to do, anyway it's a decision I have to make soon
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4

neoKushan said:
I thought they had to release the Kernel source by law? It's GPL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A law that cannot be enforced is kind of pointless anyway.

Meanee said:
A law that cannot be enforced is kind of pointless anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can be enforced. Any time a GPL case has gone to court, it has been proven to be legally binding. All it takes is someone actually taking them to court over it. If it's really an issue, the EFF are the ones to talk to.

neoKushan said:
It can be enforced. Any time a GPL case has gone to court, it has been proven to be legally binding. All it takes is someone actually taking them to court over it. If it's really an issue, the EFF are the ones to talk to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be, but taking on a huge corporation and their army of lawyers just because company not releasing source code in time is not something that organizations such as EFF would do. They probably have more important things to take care of.

Meanee said:
Could be, but taking on a huge corporation and their army of lawyers just because company not releasing source code in time is not something that organizations such as EFF would do. They probably have more important things to take care of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say that, but I do believe the EFF have already taken some companies to court over this. I can't find details now but it has definitely happened.

neoKushan said:
You say that, but I do believe the EFF have already taken some companies to court over this. I can't find details now but it has definitely happened.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I am all for it. But if GPL was really that enforceable, HTC would be in court every time they release a phone. I remember Evo 4G LTE (Sprint's One X) took forever. Same with Evo 3D that I had.