Related
http://www.itpro.co.uk/606879/htc-touch-pro
Or with XDA's help can some of these problems be fixed?
Or are these problems not that big a deal?
Could you quote (copy - paste) the problems here?
There’s an accelerometer in it too so it can do the flip to landscape mode when you turn it round. Unfortunately, this isn’t as responsive as I would have liked, due to the delay in re-rendering the page.
Unfortunately there’s no 3.5mm headphone socket, so you’ll either need to use the typically poor supplied headphones with their mini USB connector, or invest in a Windows mobile remote into which you can plug your own headphones.
However, while it should be possible to scroll up and down between messages like this I found that I instead found that I usually just opened the email as soon as I touched the screen. Once you do, you’re left with the regular clunky Windows Mobile interface, which means getting out the stylus.
A true indicator of the limits of Touch Flo 3D is that it doesn’t present a consistent interface across the whole device. When in regular portrait mode, pressing on the on-screen soft menu buttons in any given application will bring up a list of enlarged, and therefore easy to use with the fingers, menu options, but when you open the keyboard and turn it sideways you get standard Windows Mobile menus.
The inconsistencies carry over to web browsing. While in portrait mode the default page gives you a search box. By contrast, when you open the keyboard and select the Web Search button, it fires up Google.com instead. Furthermore, in portrait mode, double tapping the address bar brings up the search box, into which you can type using the on-screen keyboard. However if you flip open the keyboard and try and do the same the box keeps on disappearing, which is slightly maddening.
Furthermore, while Opera Mobile does a great job of reflowing text to fit the screen, and is generally very good, it does seem to strain the processing power of the device and the browser has a hard job differentiating between taps to cause the page to zoom, and taps to click through on links. Try converting currencies at www.xe.com using the Opera browser as an example – it’s an exercise in frustration.
However, while it all seems smooth at first, when one gets to use the phone for a prolonged period problems start to surface. The issue is that Windows Mobile as an operating system is decidedly sluggish and nothing HTC has done on the surface can disguise this. When the phone rings, there seems to be an unnerving hesitation between pressing the answer button and the call connecting – and ending a call is worse.
Other bugs encountered include the camera application having a tendency to freeze up, and frequent ‘manila.exe’ crash messages that seems to occur when it’s asked to do too much, too quickly.
If you put up with these, you’ll find a very capable device, that’s brimming with useful features but it has to be said that there are rather too many for it to earn a recommendation.
There’s much to be impressed about with the Touch Pro, and much of the time, impress it does, but the irritations of the interface of Windows Mobile and the responsiveness are never too far off, despite HTC’s best efforts.
If you’re set on, or restricted to, Windows Mobile, and want a keyboard, the Touch Pro has to be recommended as the best of the bunch. If you’re happy to cast your net wider however, we’d have to say that we’d choose a Blackberry Bold, Nokia E71, or indeed iPhone over this every time.
sounds like an apple fanboy IMO...
thehyecircus said:
There’s an accelerometer in it too so it can do the flip to landscape mode when you turn it round. Unfortunately, this isn’t as responsive as I would have liked, due to the delay in re-rendering the page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it depends on the webpage you are viewing. If it's a heavy one, you will notice a delay but nothing that you can't handle. Most of the times is pretty snappy.
Unfortunately there’s no 3.5mm headphone socket, so you’ll either need to use the typically poor supplied headphones with their mini USB connector, or invest in a Windows mobile remote into which you can plug your own headphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No 3.5mm. If you really need to use a 3rd party handset to listen to mp3 etc, you have to use an adapter...
However, while it should be possible to scroll up and down between messages like this I found that I instead found that I usually just opened the email as soon as I touched the screen. Once you do, you’re left with the regular clunky Windows Mobile interface, which means getting out the stylus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you need the stylus when reading an email? I don't get this...
A true indicator of the limits of Touch Flo 3D is that it doesn’t present a consistent interface across the whole device. When in regular portrait mode, pressing on the on-screen soft menu buttons in any given application will bring up a list of enlarged, and therefore easy to use with the fingers, menu options, but when you open the keyboard and turn it sideways you get standard Windows Mobile menus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can enable the enlarged menus in landscape too...
The inconsistencies carry over to web browsing. While in portrait mode the default page gives you a search box. By contrast, when you open the keyboard and select the Web Search button, it fires up Google.com instead. Furthermore, in portrait mode, double tapping the address bar brings up the search box, into which you can type using the on-screen keyboard. However if you flip open the keyboard and try and do the same the box keeps on disappearing, which is slightly maddening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When in portrait mode the icon is called Opera so pressing it just loads the Homepage. In landscape mode the icon is Web Search so... it loads google!
I am using Opera 2392 and clicking on address bar in any mode brings up Search bar as well.
So, no problem here...
Furthermore, while Opera Mobile does a great job of reflowing text to fit the screen, and is generally very good, it does seem to strain the processing power of the device and the browser has a hard job differentiating between taps to cause the page to zoom, and taps to click through on links. Try converting currencies at www.xe.com using the Opera browser as an example – it’s an exercise in frustration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... You can use the phone's Page UP\ DOWN, TAB, ENTER keys... Just like a PC...
However, while it all seems smooth at first, when one gets to use the phone for a prolonged period problems start to surface. The issue is that Windows Mobile as an operating system is decidedly sluggish and nothing HTC has done on the surface can disguise this. When the phone rings, there seems to be an unnerving hesitation between pressing the answer button and the call connecting – and ending a call is worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could disable HTC Dialer and let Windows Mobile Dialer take over. Few more tweaks and problem solved!
Windows Mobile is still based on a 10 year old core. No matter what, it is outdated... However, on the right hardware (i.e. Touch Pro) Windows Mobile works like a treat!
Other bugs encountered include the camera application having a tendency to freeze up, and frequent ‘manila.exe’ crash messages that seems to occur when it’s asked to do too much, too quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never happened to me! Probably he used an older rom...
If you put up with these, you’ll find a very capable device, that’s brimming with useful features but it has to be said that there are rather too many for it to earn a recommendation.
There’s much to be impressed about with the Touch Pro, and much of the time, impress it does, but the irritations of the interface of Windows Mobile and the responsiveness are never too far off, despite HTC’s best efforts.
If you’re set on, or restricted to, Windows Mobile, and want a keyboard, the Touch Pro has to be recommended as the best of the bunch. If you’re happy to cast your net wider however, we’d have to say that we’d choose a Blackberry Bold, Nokia E71, or indeed iPhone over this every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... I am guessing they don't like Windows Mobile too much... They didn't really give any of the device real flaws (Like the sound it makes when sliding in\out the keyboard, you have to remove the cover to change the microSD card).
You could buy Google's Dream, but a more polished operating system is not a good reason to buy such an ugly and poorly thought over device...
You could also buy Xperia X1 but you stilll have to face Windows Mobile flaws. You do get better build quality and bigger screen. But the keyboard is graded as one of the worst ever, screen is not flushed, you won't have TF3D (you could get TF2D though...) and the overall appeal of the device seems to be worse than TP.
That's all....
Whats wrong with the noise it makes when you slide out the keyboard?
What happens when you use Windows Mobile Dialer? Is it ugly? Or bad looking? I am used to just a simple Nokia list of names to call so I have no idea what to expect.
And can't the phone's speaker work for FM Radio? Or maybe Slingbox Mobile?
No other cell phone out there right now looks good. I'm interested in Android but it needs to actually get out of the trial first phone stage.
I just want to know when I can write a review that matters. I want to write a stock vs modded review that details every issue before and after..
oh the pains of waiting to upgrade...
marios96 said:
You could disable HTC Dialer and let Windows Mobile Dialer take over. Few more tweaks and problem solved!
That's all....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for addressing the issues, I am a tentative Pro buyer and have read that review too and it did make me hesitate a bit. Now I'm more convinced, again
Just quickly (this is my first EVER WM phone), how do you disable/enable windows/HTC dialer?
Furthermore, I was hoping that you can point me to a place where I can learn how to tweak/change settings/flash the phone. I checked out the database and Wiki's (I swear I did!) but all it seems are explanations as to what does what - it doesn't really tell you HOW to do the tweaks - like, I know I need to change registries here and there - but HOW? How do I make a backup of everything before I change anything/flash the phone? HOW do I find out the CID? etc. No need to teach me here, just want a good tutorial as to what I can do with a WM phone (and how!), thanks a MILLION in advance!
l3it3r said:
I just want to know when I can write a review that matters. I want to write a stock vs modded review that details every issue before and after..
oh the pains of waiting to upgrade...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can write it here. In fact please do.
Lord Farkward said:
Thanks for addressing the issues, I am a tentative Pro buyer and have read that review too and it did make me hesitate a bit. Now I'm more convinced, again
Just quickly (this is my first EVER WM phone), how do you disable/enable windows/HTC dialer?
Furthermore, I was hoping that you can point me to a place where I can learn how to tweak/change settings/flash the phone. I checked out the database and Wiki's (I swear I did!) but all it seems are explanations as to what does what - it doesn't really tell you HOW to do the tweaks. No need to teach me here, just want a good tutorial as to what I can do with a WM phone (and how!), thanks a MILLION in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do all sorts of tweaks (including changing the dialer) with a registry editor (like Resco's or PHM etc). It is really not hard to find or use one. It's a bit like using File Explorer to find a specific file and edit its' name or properties...
Or you can use one of the programs that are ment for specific registry tweaks. Like Advance Config or Diamond Tweak. Both programs contain all the necessary tweaks in a well presented way so it is a matter of switch on and off a registry edit (or something close to that...)
All in all, the best way to start is either Advance Config or Diamond tweak and when you feel like editing registry by yourself use one of the Registry Editors.
marios96 said:
You can do all sorts of tweaks (including changing the dialer) with a registry editor (like Resco's or PHM etc). It is really not hard to find or use one. It's a bit like using File Explorer to find a specific file and edit its' name or properties...
Or you can use one of the programs that are ment for specific registry tweaks. Like Advance Config or Diamond Tweak. Both programs contain all the necessary tweaks in a well presented way so it is a matter of switch on and off a registry edit (or something close to that...)
All in all, the best way to start is either Advance Config or Diamond tweak and when you feel like editing registry by yourself use one of the Registry Editors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a perfect place for me to start, thanks!
Just curious - other than editing registries and flashing with ROM's, what other fun modding can you do?
thehyecircus said:
Whats wrong with the noise it makes when you slide out the keyboard?
What happens when you use Windows Mobile Dialer? Is it ugly? Or bad looking? I am used to just a simple Nokia list of names to call so I have no idea what to expect.
And can't the phone's speaker work for FM Radio? Or maybe Slingbox Mobile?
No other cell phone out there right now looks good. I'm interested in Android but it needs to actually get out of the trial first phone stage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, the keyboard feels extremely solid! The sliding mechanism is strong and has a good feel when you use it. However, when you slide out the keyboard the spring does a sound which some may find weird. I would just prefer it to be a tiny bit more quiet!
A skin for the WM Dialer is this one: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=434934
The loudspeaker could be used for FM Radio with the hansfree cable attached to the phone (it acts as an antenna).
The speaker that you use for phone calls can't.
Lord Farkward said:
That's a perfect place for me to start, thanks!
Just curious - other than editing registries and flashing with ROM's, what other fun modding can you do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is this:
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tiEji2sTyA
marios96 said:
Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tiEji2sTyA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how is that done?!?
Nobody really knows... (Except from the uploader ofcourse)
The video seems real though...
Anyway, for all the new members of Raphael forum, just a reminder:
Since Touch Pro is basically a Diamond with keyboard, you can find a great deal of information, applications, mods, themes and many many many other usefull stuff over at the Diamond thread Themes, Applications and Software
To the OP:
As per the very detailed post on the preceding page there are ways around pretty much everything they say, except for the lack of a 3.5mm jack, since thats hardware.
The Touch Pro is my first WinMo phone (coming from various N-Series Nokia's, the N82 I still have), and I find it excellent after only a little time spent here learning some tweaks (like 4 program icons across in the program menu, large icons in landscape, a couple of registry tweaks to really speed up TF3D, Diamond TF3D configurer to order the tabs in a logical way for my use etc). You hear lots of bad things about WinMo, which it deserves to be perfectly frank (seriously, needing to use a stylus is just awful, so user-unfriendly), but the reality is that when properly skinned to can pretty much alleviate nearly all its shortcomings.
NZtechfreak said:
To the OP:
As per the very detailed post on the preceding page there are ways around pretty much everything they say, except for the lack of a 3.5mm jack, since thats hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=169477
and there you have it.... 3.5mm jack=p
Yeah, I have one of the adaptors too - but its quite large and I only use it in the car. That doesn't really qualify as a real solution in my book, having to carry around another piece of kit that is quite large (the picture makes it look deceptively small).
marios96 said:
How is this:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh myyyyyyyyyy
how can I ever forget about skinning?? now THAT's really awesome. I'm sure I'll find out how I'll do that later (at least I know who to ask if/when I'm stuck now )
BTW, are you personally using the WM dialer now? or have you done enough tweaking that even the HTC dialer is fast enough?
(Mods, if this is seen as advertising or spam, please accept my apologies and remove the thread. It's not really though, promise! I just thought people might be interested in my review of a new PPC not made by HTC )
**************************************************************
Hi all, welcome to this, my hands on review of the new Acer Tempo X960 Smart Device! I've been fortunate enough to be given a review sample of this latest device from Acer, one of their first since their purchase of ETEN corp, and I can tell you, the Acer styling is getting right in there.
First off all, lets take a look as some pics of this gorgeous device.
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"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
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"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As you can see, a sexy looking device that's slim, light and extremely comfortable in the hand and has no irritating bevel around the edge of the screen to get in the way of using it.
Device Specification
Right, Let's get the technical stuff over with.
Operating System:
Windows Mobile® 6.1 Professional (Crossbow)
Processor:
Samsung S3C 6410 533 MHz Processor with one DRAM
Memory:
256 MB Flash ROM, 128 MB SDRAM
Display:
2.8", 640 x 480 (VGA), 65,536 colors, TFT-LCD
Dimensions(L x W x H):
106.4(L) x 59 (W) x 13.7(14.8 ) (H) mm
Weight:
131.5g
Communications:
HSDPA 7.2 / HSUPA 2.0 / UMTS (2100 / 1900 / 850 MHz)
Quad-Band GSM：850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900 MHz
GPRS class 11 / EDGE class 11
Bluetooth® v2.0 class 2 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate),
WiFi IEEE802.11b/g Certificated
GPS:
Embedded SiRF Star III chipset, TMC function supported*,
(*Subjected to changes by region)
Camera:
Built-in 3.2 mega pixels Auto-Focus CMOS camera, up to 2048 x 1536 resolution
0.3 mega pixels Fixed-Focus CMOS camera for Video Telephony usage
Light sensor (L-Sensor):
Sensing the brightness of environment to adjust panel luminance
Expansibility:
MicroSD card slot
Interface/Audio:
Built-in microphone and speaker, hands-free mode supported
Interface/Data:
USB Sync
Ergonomic Design:
Touch screen for stylus or fingertip, power button, 2 quick application buttons (GPS/Home), send/end button, record button, volume control,
Battery:
Lithium Polymer rechargeable with 1,530 mAh capacity
Talk time: 3G: 4h depend on usage / 2G: 5h depend on usage
Standby: 150h depends on usage
Pocket PC usage: 10~15 hour
GPS usage: 2.5~5 hour
* Highly dependent on usage rate/behaviour
Software (pre-loaded*):
Windows [email protected] 6.1 Professional
1. Microsoft® Office Outlook Mobile (Calendar, Contacts, Tasks and Inbox)
2. Microsoft® Office Word Mobile / Microsoft® Office Excel Mobile / Microsoft® Office PowerPoint Mobile.
3. MSN® Messenger / Microsoft® Transcriber / Windows Media® Player 10.
4. Picture / Notes / Internet Explorer Mobile / ActiveSync / Calculator / Game (Solitaire, Bubble Breaker).
5. Microsoft Reader* (* region/territories dependent)
Acer Exclusive Applications:
User interface: Acer Shell v2.0
Phone Tools: Phone settings, SIM toolkit, Speed dial, Communication manager, CSD type, Connection wizard, SMS sender, SIM manager, MMS composer
Multimedia Tools: Pictures & Videos, Camera /Camcorder, Album, Streaming player, Media player
Utilities: Backup utility, Default Settings, Application recovery, Memory Optimization
(*Subjected to changes by region)
A very well specified device that places it squarely in the upper bracket of modern Pocket PC devices, the Tempo X960 sports a highly capable processor with integral 3D capabilities and a custom shell application from Acer to simplify your daily use. Let's take a closer look at it, shall we?
Ergonomic Design
The Tempo X960 sports Acers new styling of a slick black casing with a glossy transflective touch screen flush with the casing. It's constructed of a sturdy plastic with a chromium plated rim and a rubberised back to prevent slipping on things like car dashboards and feels extremely comfortable and light in the hand.
The screen is far enough placed up in the device that swiping with your thumb is very comfortable and reaching the 4 hardware bottons and D-pad on the front is also extremely easy on the hand.
The buttons here are your typical Call and Hang up on either side, the D-Pad in the centre, and also a GPS and Home key. More on those later.
Also located on the front is the VGA front camera, primarily intended for 3G video calls, a light sensor for automatic brightness adjustment, and a raised slit for the ear piece. Hiding either side of this slit are the standard status LED's you expect on all Pocket PC's. Power, WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS.
Connectors
Starting with the left side, from top to bottom we have a place to fit a lanyard, a +/- volume rocker, a reset hole and the Record button.
On the bottom there is a single mini-USB connector which is the standard these days for Pocket PC charging and synching. This port also doubles as a headphone connector.
On the right side, from top to bottom, we have the power button, Micro-SD card slot, camera button and the bay for the included telescoping stylus.
All of these buttons and slots are flush with the chromed trim which is nice, though I found the SD card slot a little tricky to remove with my fingernail, Mind you, I have chunky fingers so that's probably at least partly the cause. It's not like we'll be opening this regularly anyway, you'll see why a little later.
On the top edge we have the letters GPS.
Behind these hides the antenna for the highly capable SiRF III GPS chipset built in to this device.
On the back we have the main 3.2 megapixel camera with an LED flash and a micro mirror for those self portraits.
Also here are two small speaker grilles, though there is only one speaker actually in the device. Finally, we battery cover which is easy to remove, yet feels of good sturdy construction. This hides the 1530mAh battery and the SIM slot.
Right, that's the hardware covered, so let's switch this puppy on, shall we?
Software
Right, first of all, let's get one thing straight, Acer like black. If there's one thing you're going to see a lot of in Acer's phones, it's black. From the slick outer casing, to the software on the device. Lots and lots of black. I happen to like black, so this suits me right down to the ground.
So... After that admittedly dull boot logo, you are then presented with the regular green Windows Mobile 6.1 startup screen. This hangs around for a short while, before you're presented with this:
This is Acer's all new singing and dancing Acer Shell 2.0. Don't ask me where 1.0 went, I've never seen it and I have no idea if it exists. Who cares anyway? We now have Acer Shell 2.0, and I happen to quite like it.
Anyway, it basically simulates an actual desktop, complete with window showing you the weather outside (by the way, this bit is animated! If it's raining, you'll get rain on your window ), and from what I can tell, appears to be flash based. You can move objects around on the desk, you have three "panes" to help you do this, and on pane 3 there's even a shelf to put stuff too. You can also take objects off the desk if you should wish.
Here's a closer look showing all 3 "panes" of the desk. accessed with a left/right swipe of the finger.
BTW, if you're wondering why these pics are different to the bigger one above, it's because some shots are promo shots from Acer, and some are from the device in my hand. These ones are from my device.
Tapping on any of these objects will open them up to custom applets such as contacts, email, weather forecasts, quick launch, bookmarks, and a rather nifty music player.
As well as the Acer Shell, there are also some other programs preinstalled, these include Google Maps, the new Internet Explorer 6 Mobile (which I have to say, is a massive improvement over PIE and even handles YouTube straight out of the box).
There is also the standard ETEN suit of applications, now rebadged to Acer, that many are used to on the previous Glofiish range of phones such as the GPS Viewer, Application Recovery, Backup, Memory Optimization, Task Manager, Profiles and so on, as well as the usual Windows Mobile stuff such as Office Mobile, MSN Messenger, Live Search.
Two new things of note. We now have a Notification Manager, which can notify you of new updates, and even download for Over The Air updating. Very useful, though I'd be careful of your data charges there. Also, we have what is quite possibly THE most important addition to Windows Mobile ever, and I thank Acer from the bottom of my heart for adding it; card reader mode.
Yes, that's right! When you connect to your PC, you will now be asked if you want to go in to one of three modes:
* Activesync
* Card Reader
* Internet Sharing
The middle one is the important one. Card Reader. When in this mode, the SD card in your device will appear as a normal drive on your PC, and you can transfer files at FULL USB 2 transfer speeds! No more being limited by the horrible speed restrictions of ActiveSync! Finally, you can stop carrying that little card reader with you... Thank you SO MUCH, Acer!
In Use
Right, so... I've had this device in my hands for a couple of weeks now, and I've been using it as my daily phone since it arrived and I have to say, this is by far my most favourite Pocket PC to date.
It's comfy in my hand, it's light, it hardly makes an impression in my shirt pocket. It has a clear VGA screen and thanks to the 533mhz Samsung processor, it's pretty snappy to respond, lagging a little only when some memory pig of an application decided it was going to bully the rest of the device, and THAT only happened when I was randomly installing all sorts of stuff on it.
Typing on it suffers from the same problem ALL touch screen devices suffer from; that of having to use a software keyboard. The standard Microsoft one is the usual fair, needing the stylus to type, but Acer have given us a much easier to use "Easy Keyboard", not too dissimilar to Apple's one on the iPhone, and this one is easy enough to use with the finger.
The audio quality is excellent, both in normal and speakerphone modes, as well as video calls, and whilst it uses a USB connector for audio headsets, the ones it comes with are of good quality and are comfortable to wear.
TomTom 6 & 7 both work a charm on it with GPS fix being picked up in 15-20 seconds from cold in an open area.
Battery life I found to be pretty impressive too, with me going 3 days on average between charges. Not bad considering all the hardware packed into this neat little device, all demanding their share of the 1530mAh battery.
Overall Impression
I've used a lot of Pocket PC devices in my time, so I think I can honestly say that I'm not that easily impressed, but Acer have managed to impress me with the Tempo X960. Sure, it's not perfect, show me a device which IS, but it's very very GOOD at what it does.
For me, I think it's biggest plus points are its size and speed, coupled with comfort of use and quality of the audio. All the rest of the stuff is just bling on the core of what is a very well constructed phone.
I think I can sum up my overall feelings about the Tempo X960 thusly... If Acer want this review unit back, they're going to have to fight me for it! Or... they could just send me an invoice.
Thanks a lot
Exellent review!
Now I have it completly discarded
Looks like a nice phone.
unfortunately a 2.8 touchscreen and no HW keyboard doesn't quite work for me.
If you have small hands, or don't need to use it for email it seems like a good option.
Looks like a cool phone, ill do some more research, and maybe check ebay. -Thanks
orb3000 said:
Now I have it completly discarded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mind if I ask why that is?
Great review. Could you be kind enough to dump the rom so we could ectract the acer software. That shell sounds like a joy to use.
addicus said:
Great review. Could you be kind enough to dump the rom so we could ectract the acer software. That shell sounds like a joy to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I can't. If I do, I can kiss goodbye to ever getting review units from Acer again, and I'm not willing to take that chance.
FloatingFatMan said:
Mind if I ask why that is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 reasons:
1.- No physical keyboard!! (Is a must for me)
2.- No HTC build (That means no great support from this forum)
Cheers,
FloatingFatMan said:
Sorry, but I can't. If I do, I can kiss goodbye to ever getting review units from Acer again, and I'm not willing to take that chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My apologies. It was rude of me to ask.
No worries. There's nothing wrong with trying, right?
Hi,
Thanks for the review. I am more taken with the M900. If you can get one from Acer can you review that for us? I know it is much bigger but I like its feature set better.
I saw a Russian preview of the M900 which seems to claim the the Qualcomm procs are faster than the Samsung one...I always thought it was the other way round!! Do you have any feelings about that from your review x960, and maybe you can run some benchmarks, even though the stats are often different from real life usage. Finally, do videos run smoothly on it?
Thanks,
Antony
Nicely written review. I do hope ACER will make a clamshell device.
Would you be able to give ACER suggestions that WE NEED A CLAMSHELL DEVICE with a fast processor please?
All devices that are coming out are all either lacking a keyboard, or if they have one, it's just a reshelve version of the first one like the HTC Touch PRO 2.
This 2.8" screen is just too small now a days...an Acer with a bigger 3.5 or more screen could be nice for you!
GPS:
Embedded SiRF Star III chipset, TMC function supported*,
(*Subjected to changes by region)
damn i wish my Touch HD had this type of GPS reciever!
However in the end, it's Acer, and Acer quality control is the worse i have ever seen.
AntonyL said:
Hi,
Thanks for the review. I am more taken with the M900. If you can get one from Acer can you review that for us? I know it is much bigger but I like its feature set better.
I saw a Russian preview of the M900 which seems to claim the the Qualcomm procs are faster than the Samsung one...I always thought it was the other way round!! Do you have any feelings about that from your review x960, and maybe you can run some benchmarks, even though the stats are often different from real life usage. Finally, do videos run smoothly on it?
Thanks,
Antony
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny you should mention that. I have an M900 in my hands too and am writing a review of it. Will take a little while tho.
As for speed, I've never used a HTC Diamond so can't compare them, but these devices are WAY faster than my Kaiser. I'll be happy to benchmark them for you though.. Which benchmark program would you suggest?
Video run flawlessly, without having to recode them to lower resolutions, but like with all devices, it depends very much on the bitrate they're encoded at. For example, I've tried watching Cars and High School Musical 1 on both phones in CorePlayer. Cars played perfectly, HSM was a tiny bit jerky. Both were DiVX files at 720x480 resolution, but HSM was encoded at a much higher bitrate than cars. Don't have the files on the phone atm to say exactly what the bitrate was though.
Psygnosis84 said:
GPS:
However in the end, it's Acer, and Acer quality control is the worse i have ever seen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never experienced any build quality issues on any of my Acer stuff...
galaxys said:
This 2.8" screen is just too small now a days...an Acer with a bigger 3.5 or more screen could be nice for you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The M900 has a 3.8" screen and a hardware keyboard. Review "soon".
FloatingFatMan said:
Never experienced any build quality issues on any of my Acer stuff...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm more referring to their PC ventures, worse stuff ever made.
Hopefully they have a better team for their mobile division.
Is there any free online task (to-do) list that can sync with the tasks in pocket outlook?
I have a few criteria:
1) It can't be through Outlook - I don't have it and don't want to pay for it
2) I don't want to use MyPhone - It would be fine if most of the fields weren't missing with the online interface
3) It has to be free Otherwise I'd just use RTM or Toodledo/Nuevasync
4) It has to sync with pocket outlook - I don't want to use a 3rd party task app
Please? Anybody? There are so many ways to sync either calendar or contacts but none for tasks! I've been looking for so long!
I used to use mail2web but they became not-free...
Thank you in advance...
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
borisku said:
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply, but I can't get the free version of essentialPIM to sync. I believe only the full version supports this (and that costs money).
Bump
Is there no program or site which will allow me to sync my tasks for free?
Any free desktop PIM app or site will do... (MyPhone's task support is too anemic for my tastes.)
Anyone? Please...
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
trentend said:
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their system is weird. It lets you sync for free for 60 days and from then on you can get more time if you 'help funambol' (post about it, help bugfix it etc...)
Thanks for reminding me about funambol in any case - Will look into it.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
deedee said:
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. I never thought of free hosted lotuslive solutions - though I was actively looking for free exchange ones. Will look into this... thanks
Think most people tend to only think of Exchange based solutions as MS are the predominant provider of office based email. As we are a Domino shop at work i tend to keep an eye on what they are doing and thought it might fit your requirements.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
(1) OGGsync -- which i don't think is exactly what you want but take a look. It enables you to sync from Windows desktop Outlook to Gmail to windows mobile. It may sound like a weird system, but it has eliminated all that active sync crap. Still, it may not do what you want. And it's a small purchase of $30, i think annually... But it cuts through all the myriad of problems of Active sync cables etc.
SEE SIMPLE OVERVIEW HERE: http://oggsync.com/
SEE REVIEW from WMexperts here: http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ogg_sync_for_windows_mobile.html
(2) ZOHO: This is just around the corner, but I think it's going to be one of the best solutions; I;m not sure of parts of it are there now or not.
Everyone knows of the "Google Cloud" suite of web apps: Gmail, Calendar, Documents, Spreadsheets, and so on. But surprisingly few people know about ZOHO -- a web-based business suite of apps competitor who many reviewers over the past few years have said is superior to Google, product after product. And Zoho has so many more apps it's hard to believe how "unknown" they are, like great project management software, one of the best wiki software designs EVER, made for non-techie people... etc. If I recall, I think individual usage of all of Zoho's web apps is free.
HERE, from the ZOHO Business Suit forums, is the status of their sync system for Windows Mobile: http://forums.zoho.com/topic/mobile-sync
And a brief review, but tons of them if you want to explore further.
http://www.reviewsaurus.com/web-applications-reviews/zoho-works-on-your-windows-mobile-too/
quicksite said:
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
I've all ready looked at goosync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop and they actually sponsored a competition at my old college (I did my undergrad in india, which is where I am from).
They haven't implemented their sync system yet.. so I am still holding out... but I will probably shift when they get it all working.
For now I am looking at the lotuslive solution posted above - It looks promising.
I only wish myphone had a better interface - more ajax and a greater emphasis on content management rather than just backup (integration with windows live wouldn't hurt either...)
Thanks anyways.
I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
LOOK AT ME! COMPLETELY off-topic post!
charge1313 said:
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, but in all fairness, where's the incentive? WM 7 already a year behind competition, pretty much even acknowledged by Ballmer, was due, finally, Feb 2010. Months after Android hit warp speed in October and then became the CHristmas, New Year's and now January story with Nexus One, even February is BEHIND significantly... but nobody needs to be reminded of that here.
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Point being, now WM 7 slipped to June 2010, and from twitter feeds I subscribe to, possibly now not even til September 2010!
Prob in that same time frame, Google will have released not just the Nexus Two phone (possibly the Motorola Shadow - a phone with slide down keyboard, kind of like the Pre), but maybe even a Nexus Three phone, and god only knows what kind of updates to Android.
I don't really much care what Apple does in this realm because I hate AT&T so badly that even if Apple does indeed revamp the iphone form factor and architecture and get it up to speed with real multi-tasking, Apple shall remain punished by me for making their exclusive deal with the devil. (Believe it or not, some consumers still vote against really bad corporate decisions with pocket book). I am an Apple user in the desktop/laptop realm, but could care less about the iphone... but even THEY are moving forward in this Jan-September timeframe. Everyone knows Apple refreshes their lines every 3 years or so, and they make big leaps, not small ones.
I have no doubt WM 7 will be a good OS, I really believe it WILL be -- and it better be -- or for sure it would, by September, be game over for Windows Mobile if they launch an already late OS rethink that, upon finally launching, doesn't wow the pants off the competition and consumers. I suspect it will follow the UI experience of the Zune HD, which I think has been very good, with a very interesting UI concept of Zooming-in deeply into a subject matter area, like Music, and zooming out with a kind of 3D effect of moving in space behind the screen surface. (Hmm, looks like I am not the only one who thinks so -- but this article at MobileTechWorld also trashes the Russian blogger who claims to have seen it in action)
Add this additional news to the mix and there are slimmer and slimmer reasons why someone would want to stick with WM and take that risk. (HTC has now shipped to stores its capacitive screen stylus -- puncturing yet another hole in the "must have windows mobile to work with mobile phone spreadsheets" desperation about why the world still NEEDS windows mobile.)
The final argument of course is "anyone serious about running business apps" and "anyone whose corporate IT dept requires Microsoft Exchange server compatibility will NEED to run windows mobile"... I have to say to anyone raising those arguments: PROVE IT. Which apps exactly can only run on WM... maybe yes, there is a valid case to be made. But the generalization, to me, is no longer valid -- in the same way 15 years ago people said apple could never be taken seriously in a business environment because it doesn;t run MS Office -- then of course it did, and that argument became moot.
I'm not acting all smug about my own shift to Android -- becasue there are for SURE some significant things I miss from my WM phone which I had 5 years ago -- jotting down notes using a stylus, or drawing a quick sketch to show someone an idea, or graphical illustration... I also miss the damn up-down-left-right D-pad, which is way way WAY better than the trackball on most android devices other than Sane Samsung who preserved the D-pad... wait come to think of it, so did Motorola on both their Oct-Nov-Dec new phones.
I'm just saying that in addition to my actually loving that Hero phone, and the HTC senseUI (which, yes, can & does run on WM as well), that I just don't feel like I have anything to lose by jettisoning WM for good... sorry to say.
BUT -- if they have good reason to be so late with WM 7, because it;s filled with game-changing surprises*, then I will stuff all these words into my mouth and eat them. (*And that means more than cute fun facebook-headed people poking at Excel-headed people)
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
I've all ready looked at OGGsync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two things: I regret even bringing it up, because I hadn't read your post carefully -- but only read the headline... So I missed the boat by miles because once i read the post you said clearly: NO OUTLOOK! and NO FEES!
Still, just to clarify, OGGsync is $30/year, not month. And I guess my question is, what about Google Sync? If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop... I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
^^ Lol. I can't help but laugh. I empathise with you so much!
quicksite said:
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what? Personally, I don't like the whole finger-friendly thing. I want speed and capability and information density. I don't care how easy it is to get from A to Z - I want to get there fast and effectively even if the learning curve is steep. Which is why I thought that the pinacle of windows mobile was the Axim X51 - It was fast and powerful and had features that outclass many of today's handsets.
6.5 was a let down - it actually killed functionality while giving me nothing. Titanium is the best example of this - Its nice to look at but it the end, it has less info per screen than the old home, takes longer to work with and is MUCH less configurable.
My current windows phone is a samsung jack. Its windows mobile standard. And IMO its the best mobile OS out there now. Except for one single thing - the lack of damn apps.
You'd think there would be thousands of apps considering the number of blackjacks out there but nooooo...
Windows mobile is the (Or should have been) the no-nonsense OS. It should be crazy configurable if you want it to be but just extremly usable if you're not into all that - a system that syncs with anything, works with every service and is in general the best PDA man has yet conceived. Sadly it isn't there any more..
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.. its ok. I've gone on my own WM rants all too often. I know exactly where you are coming from.
[/I][/B] If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google sync doesn't support tasks. Otherwise I'd use it. I use soocial for my contacts, gcal (through nuevasync) for my calendar and now I guess lotus for my tasks - remarkably inelegant but I guess I have little choice.
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am uncomfortable with having all my stuff in the cloud -I firmly believe that cloud services can only complement local services.. something like the office live solution. Tasks and calendar are something else - mostly because my choices are so limited
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Thanks. And absolutely zero hard feelings...
I learned a lot from you on this thread, though i didn't help you at all
I hear you re information per screen, information density
Okay, i admit that mny T-mobile wing running WM 6.1 with custom rom from Ivan here at XDA just kicked ass, and still does. Funny but it has better version of google maps than google maps on my hero android phone.. i surely don't get that.
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again,
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
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quicksite said:
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys.
The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
,
Very true. In the end, I want my phone to help me get things done, not as an entertainment device or anything else. Hence my statement about WM standard rocking. Copilot live, for example, has a great interface - its actually faster than using a touchscreen and needs less involvement.
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a student in the US without and aid. Hence no. Not a chance in hell unless I get a ton of cash.
I suspect my next phone will be WM7 (my Jack's contract is only a few months old).. leaves plenty of time for WM 7 to release and for a decent app market to develop.
I hope.
Or else I'll go for whichever android device I can find (I need multitasking - this basically kills the Iphone)
I feel i am compelled to respond to a nit with a nit , hah ha. re:
charge1313 said:
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys. The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
I had its predecessor, the MDA, and the Wing completely became an ergonomic pleasure to use. whether I used my left hand or my right hand, the additional hard keys on sides of the phone, plus the bottom of the phone, hit exactly in the right spots re hands, finger, thumbs. And though it was mostly a remake of the MDA (both HTC phones), the Wing nailed it for me where the MDA was, pardon the expression, a piece of crap for me, though also my first touchscreen phone.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu. Sliding my thumb down to the D-pad was smooth, no bumps at all, and instant recognitoon even in the dark what the functions were and so easy to press in quad direction, then click enter/center. Similarly the ergonomic design of the Call button and end button, and the 2 additional keys around each, was just the height of ergonomic perfection. No way of mistaking which key was which, yet a slight shift in any direction and the desired key was hit perpectly, and not requiring a lot ofpressure.. just the right amount, plus tactile feedback with hardware clicks for certainty of entry. The okay button doen there by the end call i remapped to "Today", which always made home screen 1-click away for times when an app didn't have an easy-access close-button.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Sliding out the keyboard was so simple because the left fingers wrapped around the device were already positiioned to push the top screen to reveal the keyboard. Everyuthing fit in the hand perfectly...
Which leads to my last comment... I love my new HTC Hero for its size and ergonomics.. I have not used yet some of these new larger screen devices but if the WING and the HERO fit perfectly into my hand in its natural resting position of fingers, then it seems logical to guess that larger device require a wider grasp -- even if miniscule, which activates all sort of other micro-muscles in fingers, thumb, and palm of hand --
I am guessing there will be not one person who will ever fess up that a larger device results in some slight or more-than-slight greater muscular fatigue of the hand and repetitive stress.
So even though you're focus is on WM6 - THE KING! -- my focus is on how HTC learned to optimize the controls of WM6, making the WING, for example, a phenomenal exmaple of product design.
Now since lots of HTC devices held similar footprimnts, maybe lots of HTC devices had the same kind of ergonomic optimization as the WING, prob so.
I can just speak to the wing.... So, there is no way I would credit WM alone for the usability "sweet spot" you have liked. Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
thanks again for a truly rare discussion about human usability vs whiz-bang. Way too little of the former occupies this site, way more the latter dominates the site.
Try the my Funambol service - http://my.funambol.com , free
I wish the mods could SPLIT this thread - to preserve the "future of WM"
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
just my opinion ... but I have many of them .. so i am sure the world is fine without a split thread
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same can be said of my gene. With a custom 6.1 rom (for here, of course) it was the fastest smartphone anyone I knew had. Despite having a lousey 200mghz processor and next to no ram. Of course, thats also because I ran it overclocked to 247 Mghz.
It had a ton of configurable keys - most of them configured to do a whole series of context based events via mortscript.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neat. Did you use mortscript?
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly like my gene. Except there I had it mapped to a task manager.
Boy, did they know how to build phones back in the day.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used both - several of my favorite roms actually came with WKtask by default. But in the end I found that simply using the default 6.1 task manager was the lightest and the best.
Still, I've jumped back and forth between using WKtask, Quickmenu etc enough times to know how awesome they were.
And this, again, brings me back to why my jack rocks. I can open up a site or an app from the home screen and actually do something useful (like, say, check my tasks on agenda one) faster than an android device (htc dream) or an ipod touch/iphone.
Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. HTC's design was brilliant. And so was Samsung's with the blackjacks and the jack. IMO the current crop of WM devices are a result of misguided logic. Microsoft and HTC have looked at the success of the iphone and created a hybrid system which lacks the strengths of either. Thats their failing - trying to do something they were never good while ignoring their awesome lead in actual productivity and flexibility.
Seriously, take a dell axim and see how well you can do stuff with it. I bet if microsoft had put their efforts into making WM 7 the natural progression of the WM series (exclude 6.5 please) it would be out by now and a device like the touch pro would completely kick the iphone in terms of general usage.
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't argue against this. The original intent of this thread has largely been satisfied.
I've found an exchange class solution for my needs
If the mods think its sensible to split this thread then please do so..
In the near future once an android tablet comes out that has GPS and dosnt cost me an arm and a leg i will be intergrating it into my bmw.
Since many tablets have usb host and on the web i can purchanse an ibus to usb adapter which people use when they make a car pc would this work with an android tablet? to control volume tracks and maybe even voice control/calls etc.
Does anyone know if anyone is working on the android software which would allow the tablet to recognise the ibus signal? this would be purfect for me.
Can anyone help?
I doubt that you'll get a helping answer soon, because there are not many people knowing about the IBUS.
For people who don't know what the IBUS is: It's a communcation bus used by BMW for controlling most of the cars electronics (light, radio, navigation system, electric window, ...). There are adapters for controlling all these things with a PC, so it should be possible to do this with an Android App.
But I'm affraid that there is none available at present. Also I think the app is not the only trouble: You'll need a working driver for your adapter, too.
So long
kadolf
Galaxy Tab. Since you have a Beamer I'm going to assume that you have some spare cash, the Galaxy Tab should have GPS, and I'm sure someone will make a car mount for it, or you could be the first .
If you havent gone to mp3car.com go there and check it out, ill be doing the same thing in my e36 pretty soon, although i have an external touch screen im going to try and link my g2 to
kadolf said:
I doubt that you'll get a helping answer soon, because there are not many people knowing about the IBUS.
For people who don't know what the IBUS is: It's a communcation bus used by BMW for controlling most of the cars electronics (light, radio, navigation system, electric window, ...). There are adapters for controlling all these things with a PC, so it should be possible to do this with an Android App.
But I'm affraid that there is none available at present. Also I think the app is not the only trouble: You'll need a working driver for your adapter, too.
So long
kadolf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sure that eventaully someone will create the drive/app for this. If i can use my phone with a bluetooth obd2 connector and rear my cars information on my phone surely what im asking is do-able.
cheers for the reply
mswiss said:
If you havent gone to mp3car.com go there and check it out, ill be doing the same thing in my e36 pretty soon, although i have an external touch screen im going to try and link my g2 to
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My initial plan was to do that with my htc desire but unfortunatly it dosnt have tv out or usb host (OTG).
318vert said:
In the near future once an android tablet comes out that has GPS and dosnt cost me an arm and a leg i will be intergrating it into my bmw.
Since many tablets have usb host and on the web i can purchanse an ibus to usb adapter which people use when they make a car pc would this work with an android tablet? to control volume tracks and maybe even voice control/calls etc.
Does anyone know if anyone is working on the android software which would allow the tablet to recognise the ibus signal? this would be purfect for me.
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Click to collapse
old post, but i might be on the same wavelength as you, except with some changes.
android tablets will already do most everything you need, so my plan will be to ditch the head unit all together. in the spirit of the carPC and liliput touchscreens, my goal is to come up with a custom docking unity in the space of a double-din (which means i'll be required to use a 7 or 5in tablet). from there, the rest is relatively easy... or complicated.
the problem, so far, is i've yet to see any android tablets with a way to extract audio without using a headphone jack. so creating a docking station will be difficult in the sense of attempting to attach the audio.
so a couple things have been going through my mind;
1. you won't have to worry about power saving as much as a carPC. the tablet will be mostly safe to run off of the USB power (hooked directly to a 12v source) or maybe through a power inverter. removing the battery would eliminate concerns of dead battery, exploding battery from heat, etc., etc.
2. most built in FM tuners require the headphones to be attached to act as an attenna. can't be that hard to engineer the headphone component to work back into the car's radio antenna, it's just a matter if there's any benefit to be gained.
3. speaking of audio, once it's out of the device, it's just a matter of conditioning and amplifying the signal, which is all proven technology.
4. there's a huge probability that i'll skip an "in service" device in favor or a wifi only one, and then use tethering from my phone. still to be decided. i'd hate to add another cell line to my already high bill.
5. most, if not all, of the tablets will have some sort of hdmi out capability. attaching the device to external displays should be easy as pie. unfortunately, everyone will probably see what is on the main display, which may not be a problem. what might be a problem is accessing and using an SD card (of any size) to store movies, mp3s, etc. you're only so limited and it might be a little bit of a pita.
anyway, these were just some of my ideas. i know the interest is out there. the "dock" is going to be a little tricky. the tablet needs to be instantly accessible (easily removed), yet secure. i suppose you could fabricate something to where the audio cable is loose enough that you could attach it before docking.
Isn't Parrot working on single and double din headunits?
Sent from my Zio using XDA App
LiuAnshan said:
Isn't Parrot working on single and double din headunits?
Sent from my Zio using XDA App
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Click to collapse
are you talking about the android-driven HUs about to be released? from my understanding, they're just utilizing it as a core OS and not in the format you're used to on a phone, etc. similar to how Ford/BMW uses MS in their systems. i don't believe it'll have access to the market, which is a negative IMO.
the HUs might be sweet, in relation to what's available, but unless it's a dedicated tablet, i doubt you'll get the functionality you'd want to expect out of Android.
If you had a phone with usb host (OTG) then i would think we could just connect a MIMO Touchscreen monitor to it and use the released drivers for it and then we would all have what we want . here is some of what i have found that might help . Lets make this happen !!!!
http://sven.killig.de/android/N1/2.2/usb_host/
https://github.com/magoroku15/DisplayLink-driver-for-android
http://www.mimomonitors.com/
http://libdlo.freedesktop.org/wiki/
I would be interested in the hardware install aspect.
have anyone tried using the IOIO for android: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10585
ypsmav said:
have anyone tried using the IOIO for android: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10585
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll bring this thread back to say that I have. Its an ongoing project but heres what I have so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBdQnFnXtgQ
any updated progress I have a 2007 335i and would be interested in getting a setup like this
Right now I'm working on making sure all of the commands work. Progress is slow since Java really isn't the best language for manipulating individual bytes (although that could also be my lack of experience). Unfortunately if you have a 335i, none of this will help you. I think all of the current generation of BMW's (those with iDrive) and most european cars for that matter use the MOST bus. This is based on a fiber optic physical layer. The supported transfer rates are in the 100's of MHz so you'd need more than a microcontroller to talk to it. That being said, if anyone wants to fund me for a couple weeks and lend me their iDrive equipped BMW, I'd be happy to crank something out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80a-T37amdE
Howabout this... video looks cool... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80a-T37amdE
Also...
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Image stolen from here http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=839753
TunaCanyon said:
I'll bring this thread back to say that I have. Its an ongoing project but heres what I have so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBdQnFnXtgQ
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Hi TunaCanyon,
good to hear, that some other people are engaged with this topic.
I built a IBUS Bluetooth gateway half a year ago, last weekend I used to make the circuit look a bit more "professional"
I already built some piece of software based on the Bluetooth SPP example ("Bluetooth Chat") of Android SDK. It features logging ibus data (including simple packet recognition) and sending data to the ibus (with automatic checksum and length calculation). I just added CD changer emulation.
As I'm not experienced with Android programming and also didn't start with Java long ago, building a clean and working app is pretty hard for me, especially when it comes to services and threads... So after the easy datasheet reading and circuit routing part now the hard part follows.
Greetings,
kadolf
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This is my first post here on the Surface Pro forums. I'm usually in the Nexus 4 forums so just a little out of place, haha.
Pretty much there's a lot of mixed reviews from tech journalists and the business world in regards to this tablet/laptop. If any of you haven't seen the review done on Penny Arcade, then I suggest you go there first if you want a full review of this product.
This thread is mainly to tell you guys about my experience as an artist working on this tablet.
My setup is as follows:
1. 128GB Microsoft Surface Pro
2. Logitech K360 Keyboard (wireless)
3. Logitech M510 Mouse (wireless)
4. Uspeed USB 3.0 4 Port Compact Hub
5. Autodesk Sketchbook Pro 6
I chose this setup to be as versatile as possible. The surface keyboard option was $130 dollars, and honestly, I think that's a load of crap. The keyboard was 40 dollars at best, and even if it attaches to the Surface Pro and acts as a protective cover, I still don't get that price point. Maybe if it was more like a dock (more USB ports) and possibly a bigger battery source, then I'd be more inclined. The wireless allows me to completely detach from the keyboard and mouse by simply taking the Surface Pro from my desk and immediately start using my pen. When I put the tablet back in the wireless keyboard/mouse range, it automatically detects it again and this is pretty much seamless, no syncing, no bluetooth pairing crap, it's awesome.
The 4 port hub is optional and rarely do I have it hooked up. It's for when I need to hook up a USB memory stick or a device such as a scanner or printer (which I have yet to use). It is powered so if I need to put in a hefty device, then it won't kill the surface pro. It is also very light and compact, barely bigger than a credit card. The cord on it is a little longer than I'd like, but it's not bad.
I've had it for about a week and I can tell you that this is probably the best drawing tablet on the market right now (minus the professional desktop grade tablets such as the Intuos and the Cintiqs). I've tried the iPad, Asus Transformer, Nexus 7 and the Samsung Galaxy Tab. The Tab comes the closest with their pen option, however with Android, I don't get the same options I do where Windows 8.
For drawing I mainly have just the tablet and pen in hand. In fact 80% of the time, this is fine. Sketchbook Pro 6 is well designed for very minimal keyboard hotkeys and so I am able to navigate most of the interface with just the pen and finger gestures. I can't comment on Photoshop yet because WinTab has yet to be released at the time I'm posting, and so pressure sensitivity is still up in the air. However Sketchbook Pro 6 registers pressure sensitivity very well.
PROS
Screen lag is virtually non-existent, response is very good. I say virtually because, it will start showing up when the brush size is super super large and you have, say the airbrush tool selected. However this is an inherent problem with even my main rig, which has an i7 2600k and 16GB of ram. Most of the time, I use this tablet to get my roughs, and even touchups done, but if I'm going to work on a 50+ layer 300DPI/PPI image, then I'm switching back onto my main machine to do that kind of work. With that said, I would not recommend this tablet/laptop for any graphic designer wanting to only have just this to work on. This is a purely supplemental tool to an artist, in my opinion.
Multi-tasking is a breeze when I'm using it in tablet mode. I can draw sitting on my couch or outside, I can have my music playing in Spotify and I can quickly go in and out of my file browser, network as well as any USB devices I have very very quickly. If I need to FTP anything up to my websites, I can do so fairly easily as well. This is the true power of having Windows 8 rather than a tablet OS. You just can't beat the sheer amount of applications built for productivity on Windows and so it's highly evident when using this tablet.
CONS:
My biggest gripe with this tablet is that what makes it powerful.. Windows.. is also it's weakpoint. What do I mean by that? Well in essence, Windows is a desktop platform, and so interacting with buttons is very precision based (mouse) or in this case a pen. While practice will essentially get rid of this, it's still somewhat of a pain in the butt having to try and click a tiny button during installation or even minimizing or maximizing a screen.
Font size is the second problem. Even with large fonts enabled, there's still a lot of programs that don't take advantage of this. When I'm working in 3DSMax or Maya, the interface still looks very very small. Now someone may say, wtf are you doing working on a 3d program on a mobile device? Well honestly, when I'm traveling, I can model an object without rendering it. I don't need to be rendering out a high quality pass with V-Ray or Mental Ray activated and Final Gather on, lol. I'm simply saying that working in the interface, even though I'm used to most of them, I still have to squint a lot to enter values or read off values. There's probably mods out there or applications I can get to increase this, but with just a base stock install it is a pain.
------------
If you all have any questions on this tablet please feel free to post up.
WISHLIST
Some things I'd like to see in terms of accessories..
Adjustable cover... I find that when I'm drawing, I either have to lay it down on the table or go into "picture frame" style mode which isn't really usable for drawing. I will often just have it on my lap or laying on top of a three ring binder to get that angle that I'm looking for.
Grippier pen.. I have an Intuos 5 at work and Intuos 4 at home and the pen is much more comfortable and ergonomic to work with. Now the Surface Pen is by no means a slouch and I can definitely work with it.. but if they had different style pens for artists available, I'd definitely buy one.
I haven't heard of the intuos tablets but then I was never a graphic design person.
Are they Wacom digitiser based? If so then the stylus should work fine on the surface.
The surface stylus is just a wacom pen so that is probably why there are not additional styles available, you can already get them.
Note that I don't own a surface or drawing tablet etc.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I haven't heard of the intuos tablets but then I was never a graphic design person.
Are they Wacom digitiser based? If so then the stylus should work fine on the surface.
The surface stylus is just a wacom pen so that is probably why there are not additional styles available, you can already get them.
Note that I don't own a surface or drawing tablet etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All lines of Wacom tablets have proprietary pens, even an Intuos 4 pen will not work for an Intuos 5, I've tried, lol. Although, I wish they would :-/
Argenist said:
but if they had different style pens for artists available, I'd definitely buy one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you wouldnt, they'd probably want $100 for it lol
Trig0r said:
No you wouldnt, they'd probably want $100 for it lol
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Click to collapse
It'd depend on the pen. Wacom makes an awesome airbrush pen for the Intuos that I would pay that much for. If they charged $100 for the same pen with a small amount of grip on it, then yeah I'd probably say no.
I'm surprised you hadn't tried the Samsung Note 10.1, which has an active digitizer like the S.Pro but at half the price. Sammy's multi-window scheme is more elaborate and functional than Metro Snap. Sketchbook Pro is of course also on Android.
The Windows font scaling problem you mentioned has long been a problem, and is why S.RT's low-res screen is actually more functional than S.Pro's 1080p one. A larger issue is that there is (yet) no independent scaling for different displays, so the Pro's 150% scaling would look horrible if you attach an external display. The current workaround is to compromise at 125% scaling, which is optimal for neither. MS has said this will be fixed, and I expect Blue will bring display-specific scaling.
The con mentioned--desktop elements being touch unfriendly--is the single largest problem that has crippled the Win8 adoption. Metro is not the way forward for Windows, not until it can subsume desktop functions, and it can't in its current state. It's not even v1.0. It's only for small-screen devices, and is unfit to be used in portrait.
The desktop was mainly ignored in Win8. I would think that any aid at all would've helped to ease the transition. For example, the magnifying tool in Accessibility could've been deployed by default to dynamically enlarge areas for touch. I expect to see something like this to arrive in Blue.
e.mote said:
I'm surprised you hadn't tried the Samsung Note 10.1, which has an active digitizer like the S.Pro but at half the price. Sammy's multi-window scheme is more elaborate and functional than Metro Snap. Sketchbook Pro is of course also on Android.
The Windows font scaling problem you mentioned has long been a problem, and is why S.RT's low-res screen is actually more functional than S.Pro's 1080p one. A larger issue is that there is (yet) no independent scaling for different displays, so the Pro's 150% scaling would look horrible if you attach an external display. The current workaround is to compromise at 125% scaling, which is optimal for neither. MS has said this will be fixed, and I expect Blue will bring display-specific scaling.
The con mentioned--desktop elements being touch unfriendly--is the single largest problem that has crippled the Win8 adoption. Metro is not the way forward for Windows, not until it can subsume desktop functions, and it can't in its current state. It's not even v1.0. It's only for small-screen devices, and is unfit to be used in portrait.
The desktop was mainly ignored in Win8. I would think that any aid at all would've helped to ease the transition. For example, the magnifying tool in Accessibility could've been deployed by default to dynamically enlarge areas for touch. I expect to see something like this to arrive in Blue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Galaxy Note 10.1 doesn't have access to all the apps he listed. Also, you can't beat full x86.
I've yet to find this to be a problem. You can set scaling to 125% for the environment and tell individual apps to not follow scaling if you need it to. Maybe it's just me, but my eyes are perfectly fine with 100% scaling.
I don't think you can blame that on MS. While I don't particularly use the metro ui, it is useful. I manage to use the desktop elements just fine in desktop mode. If you noticed, MS Office 2013 is touch friendly and other software developers are following up on making their applications more touch friendly (but you probably won't see a lot of them until touchscreen computers grab a bigger share in the market). Obviously if you come out with a new OS that is touch friendly when it never was, there would be problems with that...people never complained about this with earlier tablet pc's, so why are they starting to complain now? Because touchscreens are becoming more and more common. Obviously it will take some time to get there.
You're right. The desktop is mainly ignored and only used for legacy apps. I'm guessing MS hopes that most developers will try and switch to the metro ui (I'm suspecting this might take a few years). I still can't see myself using metro ui as my primary ui.