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Impressions from HTC - Windows (Long post)

Impressions from HTC Cruise - Windows Mobile
Hello All,
I have been relatively new here, but I thought I could contribute in the forums by posting my (unbiased) views about HTC Cruise here, hoping other people may find them useful. I am a software developer, so although I do not have an experience with hi-tech PDAs and smartphones, (never owned such a device before), I am fine with the technicalities of such devices.
My everyday phone was a simple sony ericson K510i . What had always annoyed me was that in most "simple" phones, it was quite hard to control the phone via my PC, do backups, backup contacts, SMSes, etc. My sony was good, I had found "MYPhoneExplorer" which pretty much did all those things for my phone. The screen was little bit outdated in terms of resolution, but I did not mind much.
And then came iPhone (which I never owned). I was impressed by its design, usability and user friendliness. I also liked the idea of having WiFi on it. I was close to buying that phone and using one of the available tools to unlock it, (noway I would pay for a contract - I am UK based). My brother who is into mobiles and gadgets more than I am, commented on the fact that iPhone is an "old" generation phone in terms of phone technologies and overpriced. I soon realised it was quite overpriced and started looking at alternatives. I was happy to see HTC would release a really cool phone, which I could get as my Christmas gift (yes, dream on, I had my eyes on it since November and managed to get it this February)...
So, what are my impressions so far?
I dare to say, quite mixed...
On the one hand this device is really wicked and cool! It has all the things I had always liked and needed in a single device. Packing a GPS, a radio, 3G, WiFi in a nice package is just amazing. I can now listen to music, watch videos, find my way around using GPS and have a nice PDA. These are really cool things! No need to have my pockets filled with separate devices...
On the other hand, this phone costed me little bit less than 400 pounds. One can argue you can get a laptop for that price, but then again, a laptop is not a phone. The video issues has not been much of an issue for me, I encode my videos at QVGA and all is well. However, I do get *very* upset when I realise that there is hidden potential in the hardware platform which has not been utilised. What I found bad straight from the moment i used it, is that when i press the "phone-call" hard button, there really is a lag when drawing the blue rectangle above the dialpad, (I am talking about the area which shows the names of your contacts as you type the numbers below.) I mean, come on, so much CPU power, and I can see the blue area being drawn? The other things is that if a couple of applications are running, then the phone does not seem to be operating so smoothly. Again, in order to be fair, it is still very usable. However, as things stand now in the market, in terms of specifications this phone is easily on the upper part, so in my opinion it should be fast, not just "very usable".
My other bit of criticism is probably related to Windows rather than HTC cruise. I find this OS quite interesting on the device, there is a huge applications' base and the things that are missing can be coded by talented people. However, I find the platform a little bit of a pain to use in a pure phone context. Why do i have to check an option everytime I want to get back a delivery report for my SMS? Why do I have to hack the registry to make this permanent? I set a wallpaper in my phone, then I set its transparency, then I realise it is hidden by the today plugin, which I can of course disable. If I disable it I loose certain features which are accessible straight away. I can of course get a new plugin that matchs my needs. Why is it so hard to have tabs with incoming/outgoing/missed calls? This is a feature that phones that cost 10 times less have. Of course Windows 6.1 has this, but then I would have to "install" a new ROM. Simple question: Why do I have to do these things? Why dont' they get it right from the beginning? Don't get me wrong, I am a technology enthusiast and I am sure I will manage to set up the phone the way I want. A number of users out there will do the same thing. However, is this platform one that non-enthusiasts would find user-friendly?
Look at all those skins and modding. Really cool. And the moment you press a button on your really cool new Today plugin, an ungly Windows application will pop up.
I hope that my criticism will be received well here! I like the phone, Windows is cool on it, but I think Microsoft has quite some way to go in order to make their platform really simple to use and user-friendly (think iPhone for example, my parents could use that, but I am quite sure if I show them my phone, they will not know how to make a a phonecall with it!)
In many ways some requirements are contradictory: Being user-friendly means you may have to hide settings, having your platform run on a variety of hardware means you cut corners here and there. Hopefully Microsoft will get it right with version 7 and 8, screenshots look quite good.
As for HTC... They lost a little bit of their credibility with a couple of issues for me. First the sound issue with the french rom which was initially denied and then fixed by people in this forum, then of course the drivers issue. I intend to make good use of this cool phone and customise it to my needs, it just takes time.
For your information, I find these applications useful:
Coreplayer (obviously!)
TouchPal keyboard works good for me
WKTask (and get rid off that default task switcher)
MyMobiler installs on your PC and a little "daemon-service" on your phone, (which you can disable). Then it allows you to control your phone from your desktop.
PocketCM did not particularly appeal to me, so I removed it
FunContact was cool, and loved it. Unfortunately, two things were not so good:
a) Splash screen and loading time
b) sometimes it made my phone freeze
Thanks for reading this (long) post,
Michael

Good post...Here are my impressions as well.
I used to carry a Palm Tx and a Motorala SLVR. I have been looking for the most ideal device to "do it all", PDA, phone (quad band gsm, tri band umts), wifi, and gps. There was nothing realy that appealing on the market until I read about the HTC Touch Cruise.
I read about people's complaints about the "driver" issues and hardware acceleration, and decided to take the risk and bought the phone from a gsm seller online. The phone was unbranded and did not have any stupid carrier proprietary software.
For the most part, I am very happy with the Touch Cruise. I have dumped the palm pda and the slvr, and have not looked back.
I just spent the last 2 weeks traveling to UK (London), Germany (Frankfurt), and Italy (Padova). As a mobile phone, the Touch Cruise functioned flawlessly and had 3G connections where they were available. Couldn't have asked for better features out of a "world" phone.
The TomTom GPS also ran quite well (Western Europe maps). Had to drive alot in Frankfurt and never got lost. Even traffic reports were right on the money.
As for a PDA, it blows the Palm syncing and calendar features out of the water. I used to be a Palm pilot only person, but Palm has become a dinasaur in their attutude to features and interface. The pocket pc has in my opinion surpassed them.
As a portable media device, it does kind of ok . Core Media Player is a must install, microsoft's media players still suck and are not usable and dont support all codecs. This device is not really ideal for video in my opinion. You have to re-encode videos to QVGA for ppc level quality, then video will play fine. You cant simply take a wmv file and dump it on the device to view, it wont work. As for music/mp3's, it works great. I got on a 10 hour flight from UK to US, and used it play music and games, and still had 40% battery charge left over and used an hour of GPS on the way home, with 20% left over.
In all fairness, the HTC could run a little faster, but I blame Microsoft and HTC for hogging up the cpu and not using hardware acceleration.
Since media (video) is not high on my list of required features, I am quite happy with the HTC Touch Cruise.

darkazally, I tend to agree with you really...
I guess if one did not have such a device before or had a really old one, then HTC Cruise is really super. On the other hand I can see certain people's frustration with Cruise. It is mostly people who owned 3 or 4 PDAs before and were probably expecting to be blown away by its specs; I kind of sypathise with them....
I read in an article written by someone at Microsoft, that companies tend to overload Windows with their own propriatory software and then the whole experience goes downwards. He mentioned that for the next versions of windows mobile, they intend to post stricter requirements just because of this situation.
As I also read in these forums, people who got their devices from O2 (just to mention a single company), seem to have more issues with HTC's performance...
I enjoy using the phone everyday and I am in the process of customising it to my needs, though it takes some time!

Uhhh mymobiler is amazing thanks for posting that! That is frickin sweet!

Great review, I tend to agree.
As far as PIM Management, I came from using two devices, a slim panasonic phone and a Xircom Rex 6000 PDA in the early part of this decade (circa 2001), like you I converged them into a Sony Ericsson phone (T610>T616) which had limited capabilities and lacked a lot of features my Rex had. In 2006, I got my first Windows Mobile smartphone, a Qtek 8310 (HTC Tornado), and now I have the HTC Touch Cruise.
Ever since getting into Windows Mobile, I thought that HTC/Microsoft had delivered great functionality, but poor usability and way too much lag for such high powered devices. Take for instance the settings panel. There are probably over 8 programs (4+networking icons, 3+ button config icons, ect) in there that only have one check box, when I'm sure HTC/Microsoft could very easily put them into one or two easy to use program with a Help feature.
But at the end of the day, I don't care if no one can use my device as long as I understand it. Additional consolation is provided in the fact that this phone looks so damned sexy

My Own impression
First of all, I'm new here & let me introduce my self...
I'm Richard & i'm from Indonesia.
I've waited for +3 months, before I decided to buy HTC Touch Cruise.
My other candidate are Atom Life & Nokia N82.
Soon (2 days) after my pal (who own a PDA shop) introduce me to Touch Cruise, I bought it
First impression is luxury.
Second impression........Windows Mobile sucks......
I have done hard reset for 4 times now....due to mis configure the registry....
I've done quite intensive test on my Touch Cruise, including Video,Audio,GPS,3G & Internet,Battery life & Applications.
This is my score (0-10):
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
2. Looks : 9
3. Dimension : 8
4. Features : 8
5. Usability : 8
6. User Friendliness : 6
7. Battery Life : 7
Average score : 7
The Driver issue doesn't bothered me yet, so I'm very pleased with my new Touch Cruise
NOTE:
FYI,try not to uninstall anything from your TC.
Microsoft Windows product tends to leave "garbage" into the Registry & it will slow down your TC.
Choose wisely before installing & if you have to uninstall,search & delete any leftover inside the registry.

d4rkkn16ht said:
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
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Click to collapse
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?

You know, there are certain lag things that I don't think are due to video drivers. I mentioned this in another thread "Why the lag" but I used to have a Cingular 8525 and supposedly that device had video drivers. It still lagged with a phone skin when you hit the phone button. Rotating the screen was still slow. I hate little things that lag like that. it should be smooth navigation / interface.
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to. You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps. Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer. You need to install your own video player. The HTC video browser app only shows videos with certain extensions. It's like you have to have a specific app for every little thing and then it feels like there isn't a streamlined feel to the device.
I gotta give credit to HTC for trying to improve the interface with their apps, the Windows interface is archaic. It's just the combo of the 2 doesn't allow for a polished interface.

hambola said:
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the other hand, thanks to HTC for a platform that allows us to do so and even greater kudos to all the xda-developer wizards who make it possible (and relatively easy for the most part).

Not enough can be said for xda. Although I'm a new poster I've been reading these forums for about a year now. Helped me out greatly with the 8525 and is proving to be helpful with the Cruise.

>You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps.
I am happy we agree on this, I just wish it had a little bit of the Apple touch on it, that's all....
>Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer.
All I wanted is a kind of minimal interface, so I can set my own wallpaper and not have it hidden by the huge HTC today plug-in. I have installed spb shell for a couple of weeks now and it looks great. I also discovered the HTC Home Customiser which looks cool, so, that's nice too.
>You need to install your own video player...
I think HTC should actually write a very generous paycheck for the people that developed CorePlayer. Without that one, Cruise would be a *little* bit of a disaster.
Overall I guess Windows is a versatile OS with lots and lots of space of customisation and at the end you do get it right, it just takes a lot of patience and resets to get there...

rev3nant said:
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After some intensive test, I found some irritating bug that caused stability issues.
Quick Menu sometimes disappeared after running several applications.
System Hang at random cause.
Some system settings cannot be changed even if you've already change it.
Redundancy in Registry Entry that can cause stability issues if you change the entry. (not considered a bug if you don't change it)
and some other (not quite sure yet...)

Have you tried a different ROM?

S2P, S2V and S2U2: excellent iPhone-alike apps (music player, screensaver, picviewer)

I can’t say I’ve been lazy in the last few days. Thanks to the excellent feedback the XDA-Develeloper folks provided, I realized I need to check out XDA-Develeloper coder A_C’s latest, pretty nice and, if you’re a big fan of iPhone-alike interfaces, pretty much recommended, free (!) utilities.
Non-iPhone platforms (including both the operating system – see HTC’s latest Diamond* have been trying to copy the way iPhone works and is used. For example, Symbian also has a similar tool HERE.
*: As far as the, well, built-in storage- and GUI responsiveness-wise, to put it mildly, not really convincing HTC Touch Diamond (which is all the rage today in the Windows Mobile world) is concerned, before I publish a full story on it, read the comments, including mine, HERE. They’re really worth checking out to see what the tech geeks think of the Diamond’s inherent problems – as opposed to what many sites state in their HTC Diamond announcement reports. You’ll see why the “4GB of built-in memory is more than enough for everything you can think of and you certainly don’t need storage cards to extend it” approach of HTC is pretty much flawed. The Diamond should either come with 16GB flash memory at least (as is the case with later iPhone models and the Nokia N96) and/or with an additional microSD slot – even if under the battery.
Slide2Play
Let’s start with S2P (Slide2Play), a stylus-free MP3/WMA player application. It simply lets you browse and play your music files. It supports album art but, as of the current version, not much else - for example, not even playlists are supported. The interface is, as with the other apps of the same author, very easy to use with fingers. Of course, because of the lower sensitivity of traditional touchscreens versus the capacitive, glass screen of the iPhone, don’t except anything as easily controllable as on the iPhone, particularly not on devices with screens known for their being overly insensitive; most importantly, the HP iPAQ 210.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I’ve made some very CPU usage tests with acbTaskMan. BTW, speaking of the latter, a new, 1.4.2 version was released of it in late April, making it possible to chart the power usage on some devices it was previously impossible to do so. Version 1.4 turned out not to support any of the cooked ROM's I've reported on HERE. The new version does - to a certain degree - on the x51v. (Interestingly, the same isn't true with the HTC Universal, which doesn't seem to work under 6.1 any more - not even with 1.4.2.).
As far as background (!) execution is concerned, the figures are pretty OK on a Marvel Xscale-based PXA310 (iPAQ 210): WMA: 12% (as opposed to ~13% with CP 1.2.4), MP3: 16% (as opposed to ~9% with CP 1.2.4). The latter is 32% on a 195 MHz TI OMAP-based HTC Wizard. These figures are in no way different from that of the built-in WMP, the codecs of which SP2 is using. As far as CorePlayer (and other, much better optimized players like iPlay or Resco Audio Recorder) is concerned, it delivers considerably better performance and battery life when playing back MP3’s, though.
As of the current (v0.40) S2P version is concerned, the CPU usage is very large when the GUI is visible. On the iPAQ 210, when it’s in the foreground, it’s around ~45% in all dialog screens. On the Wizard, it’s ~48% (as opposed to the 32% default). That is, try not keeping it in foreground. Note that the same problem exists with the other A_C apps; this can be particularly a problem with the image viewer.
When you use S2P integrated into S2U2 (more on it later):
on the iPAQ 210, I measured about +20% CPU usage with non-(auto)dimmed screen (pretty bad), even with the S2P controls inactive; no excess CPU usage otherwise (with the screen dimmed).
It supports AVRCP, but only for users of the Microsoft BT stack (works OK with my test Pulsar 590). Widcomm users (for example, those of HP iPAQ’s) are left out in cold.
All in all, a decent player if you absolutely need finger-based usage / nice, accelerated scrolling and/or prefer free stuff and don’t mind the player’s being pretty simple (no playlists, streaming, equalizer etc.) Just remember to hide the user interface (by, say, clicking the battery icon in the top right) whenever possible – or just make it dim the screen after the default 17 seconds (just like with S2U2 introduced below).
Slide2Unlock2
S2U2 (Slide2Unlock2) is a simple lock/unlock application which has the iPhone style slide unlocking. It can be used as a screensaver while you don't use your device. Also, it has a CallerID function so that you can see who’s calling, some other phone integration functionality (for example, displaying the number of SMS messages) and a S2P (see above) control plugin.
The following screenshot shows it’s not only able to display the current album art, but also the output of several weather plug-ins / programs:
As with S2P, it’s not compatible with the HTC Universal (running Ranju’s WM6.1 v7.6), not even after the recommended DirectDraw vs. Raw Framebuffer registry hack and independent of the screen mode it’s started in. It, however, is compatible with the other VGA devices (tested on the Dell Axim x51v with WM6.1 from makuu A06 privß06p and the iPAQ 210 with its original firmware). Of course, it has no problems with QVGA ones either.
Note that, after the first resets (S2U2 puts itself in \Windows\Startup), it’ll display an error message. Upon subsequent resets, this problem will go away and S2U2 correctly initialized.
I really recommend this title if you want to have an iPhone-like screensaver with a lot of configuration options, caller ID display and even a plug-in for the S2P player introduced above.
Slide2View
S2V (Slide2View) (current version is 0.35) is a picture viewer with
1) switching between images by “swiping” the screen from left to right (or vice versa)
2) in zoomed mode, cool, accelerated screen scrolling
These are not offered by any other, current, mainstream picture viewer (I’ve, in this respect, tested XnView 1.40, Spb Imageer 1.6, Resco Photo Viewer 2007 v6.33, PQV 4.0.31 and Pocket Artist 3.3 – that is, the most important viewers), including Microsoft’s own Pictures and videos application coming with the operating system, built into ROM. Currently, the only mainstream image viewer with accelerated, iPhone-alike zoomed scrolling is HP’s Photosmart Mobile – at least as of version 2.11.012 coming with the HP iPAQ 210. As far as switching between images is concerned, PocketCM ImageViewer should be mentioned.

(VGA – iPAQ 214 – screenshot showing some (original-sized, 12 Mpixel) shots I’ve taken at MWC in Barcelona)
Taking into account it’s a free app, it’s pretty nice and recommended, again, particularly for iPhone fans. Despite it being free, it's very fast at both displaying thumbnails and reading the entire image for subsequent zooming.
Some of the problems or stumbling blocks you should be aware of:
- as with the other two apps, the additional “busy waiting” CPU usage can be pretty high (~28% on an iPAQ 210), even when just displaying the file list. While this really an issue with the two other apps (which run with the screen dimmed for most of the time – or minimized when run in the background), with a picture viewer, which always displays something in the foreground, the situation is entirely different. If you’re afraid of this, get another image viewer.
- when you try to open a storage card with tons (hundreds) of subdirectories in the root, it doesn’t display anything
- or, even worse, just a black screen. In this case, make sure you open the card with the "ARROW" button next to the folder and not by tapping the folder name. There’s an excellent post showing this HERE. As you can see, there’re two ways of opening a directory.
It also allows for setting the Today screen wallpaper (separate for landscape and portrait orientation) and assigning an image to a contact:
Zoom-in
The app also supports (pretty fast, unlike with, say, the otherwise excellent and free XnView) zooming functionality. It, unlike with PocketCM ImageViewer (more on it later), uses D-pad based zooming-in, only keeping the touchscreen for switching between consecutive images and, when zoomed in, accelerated, iPhone-like scrolling.
With the default settings, it can’t zoom in into large – tested with 12 Mpixel ones – images, not even on large-RAM models (for example, the 128M RAM iPAQ 210), unlike the five most recommended, other titles. The others are all capable of zooming into to at least 50% and, Conduits Pocket Artist 3.3 to 100% if you use an external cache. (Then, it’ll use about 36Mbyte RAM and an additional 6M cache to load a 12Mpixel image.). Then, it just prints a blank - or corrupted - screen - instead of showing an "out of memory" error. The developer stated setting the Registry value MaxZoomLevel to a higher value (from the default) may help. I haven’t tested the effect of this.
Finally, let’s compare it to the already-mentioned PocketCM ImageViewer (current, tested version: 0.4), which also offers “change picture upon swiping” functionality.
1. I’ve found the latter (PocketCM) less compatible (it didn’t even try to list my 12 Mpixel images). I don’t know where the threshold is (2 Mpixels? 4? 8? I haven’t tested this. VGA-resolution JPG’s are found, correctly displayed and zoomed-in).
2. The zoom-in functionality of S2V is far better thought-out (as it’s D-pad based, there’re no accidental zooming in if you don’t press the touchscreen upon swiping firmly enough) with any zoom level (as opposed to the two of PocketCM) with fast zoom-in loading
3. I’ve found PocketCM ImageViewer’s image changing animation much more spectacular (which may be important for an iPhone fan wanting great visuals) than that of S2V
4. PocketCM has the definite advantage in that it has no CPU usage at all, as opposed to the considerable CPU usage (and the consequential power consumption on most CPU architectures) of S2V (even when it’s just idling, displaying an image).
NOTE: This article has been cross-posted to several boards. In order to make all comments, questions and answers reach as many readers as possible, please consider posting your comment both here and on my home Smartphone & Pocket PC magazine blog page at the URL http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=2639&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 . It’s pretty easy: just use the clipboard to quickly copy your post. No registration is necessary to be able to post – just fill in a(ny) (nick)name, paste the body of the text and fill in the anti-spam code field. If you don't have the time, I can replicate your post on my blog so there is one repository for all discussion. Also, feel free to check out the comments from other boards there – also in the Comments section.

Great reviews of the software, however I would disagree with the CPU usage figures. On my Prophet (196MHz TI OMAP 850), the CPU usage rarely goes above 25% (normally sits between 15-20%) playing WMA or MP3 files in S2P. I also think you haven't mentioned one of the biggest features of S2P, the "CoverFlow" functionality. For me, this makes S2P the nicest and most used piece of software on my phone. Whilst other players may play more music, it's a pain to go through the files/albums and S2P is much faster and more intuitive.
Anyway, thanks for the in depth analysis.

I am very glad to see A_C getting some well-deserved attention for this great collection of apps. However, I feel that this "in-depth" review was anything but as you overlooked several major features of the apps, most notably the AlbumView functionality, and seemed to spend more time discussing other apps than those in the S2 family. Maybe it was just me, but the overall tone seemed quite negative while it should be anything but.
Another item that was not mentioned, but should have been, is the fact that A_C has been VERY responsive to feature requests and has been able to regularly make significant improvements in not just one, but all three, applications while responding to forum posts about feature requests, usage questions, etc. I've received much better support from A_C than I have from many developers that charge big $$$ for their software. Meanwhile, A_C provides his apps for free, though many of us have happily donated to help support his work. Thanks again A_C!!!

l3v5y said:
Great reviews of the software, however I would disagree with the CPU usage figures. On my Prophet (196MHz TI OMAP 850), the CPU usage rarely goes above 25% (normally sits between 15-20%) playing WMA or MP3 files in S2P. I also think you haven't mentioned one of the biggest features of S2P, the "CoverFlow" functionality. For me, this makes S2P the nicest and most used piece of software on my phone. Whilst other players may play more music, it's a pain to go through the files/albums and S2P is much faster and more intuitive.
Anyway, thanks for the in depth analysis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange you only have 15...25% CPU usage - on my Wizard (the same 195 MHz TI OMAP), it's ~48% (as opposed to the 32% default).

del4 said:
seemed to spend more time discussing other apps than those in the S2 family.
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Click to collapse
Yup - I generally write comparative reviews. No apps exist without alternatives - this is why I always write comparative reviews so that the reader knows which app suits his/her needs the best. This is why I've spend so much time on, say, the PocketCM ImageViewer (and, to a lesser degree, XnView - these are two free image viewers) comparison.
Maybe it was just me, but the overall tone seemed quite negative while it should be anything but.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I certainly listed the cons of each app, I still recommended all of them - even the thread title contains "excellent"

BTW, please guys DO consider cross-posting your comments, answers to my blog. It isn't that complicated and only takes about additional 20-30 seconds. It's of great help to, say, the HowardForums, BrightHand, MoDaCo etc. forum members. As will be their posts, which you will also see when I replicate them (there are already two posts at HowardForums in my thread).

I kinda got the feeling the reviews were looking for the negative in these apps. The thing to remember is that all three are currently/constantly in development, and A_C is always adding/improving on things, so I don't think it is quite fair to make the down-sides quite as glaring as they seem to come across here.
I don't think the author meant for it to come across like it did, I think it was meant to be complimentary, it just didn't sound it at times.
I also see what del4 was talking about with the feeling that other apps were concentrated on more than they should have.
This is a nice attempt, but I really feel the first two posts of each apps threads gives more detailed descriptions than these reviews do.
P.S. It did make for an interesting read though, thanks for posting!

I've got to be honest - I never understand the point of all of this.. well fluff, it just seems to gooble CPU cycles and memory for little benefit - (well no benefit I can really think of).
Not a knock - just a statement of ... bemusement (is that the word I'm looking for)?

Joezhang said:
I've got to be honest - I never understand the point of all of this.. well fluff, it just seems to gooble CPU cycles and memory for little benefit - (well no benefit I can really think of).
Not a knock - just a statement of ... bemusement (is that the word I'm looking for)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw your post in ifonz as well, and something like that, I see it as well, and agree with you, too much for me, but I know people like the freedom of being able to do something like that, and don't blame them. These apps though I really don't consifer 'fluff' (although they do look cool)!! I consider these viable alternatives to existing apps. I always disliked the stock lock on my device, and never used it, resulting in many calls I didn't mean to make LOL!!! This lock screen is a lot easier to use for me, and I KNOW when it is locked or not. The caller ID is great as well, because it maked the answer buttons large enough for even my meaty finger to press easily!! The media player is a gem, I never liked the layout of Windows media player for music, and love being able to play music WHILE the phone is locked with control!!!!
Did that make sense, or did I type myself in circles here LOL??

Hey, if it works for you great - I'm not knocking choice - just saying that I don't particular see much benefit for me.
I did look at slide2unlock but all the threads I saw made it seem very complex to install ("then you hack this bit of the reg", "now you need to install"). Just too much hard work for someone like me!

del4 said:
I feel that this "in-depth" review was anything but as you overlooked several major features of the apps, most notably the AlbumView functionality
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I admit it isn't an in-depth review - at least not in the sense (non-comparative) several-page-long reviews, full with screenshots (albeit I've also provided some, taken by me, showing as many features and icons as possible) are written by other Windows Mobile pundits.
What I tried was putting these apps in the generic application Universe and show in what areas they're better and where they're worse than the comparable titles.

Joezhang said:
Hey, if it works for you great - I'm not knocking choice - just saying that I don't particular see much benefit for me.
I did look at slide2unlock but all the threads I saw made it seem very complex to install ("then you hack this bit of the reg", "now you need to install"). Just too much hard work for someone like me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the (several - 5 or 6) PPC's I've installed it on - so that I can provide as much compatibility info as possible -, absolutely no reg tweaking was necessary. It, not taking into account the "no components found" message after the first reset, worked out-of-the-box.

syrguy1969 said:
I kinda got the feeling the reviews were looking for the negative in these apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sincere / fair comparative reviews should always look on the negative sides of apps too. I always list the negative in the apps I review - along with the positive aspects. Look at, for example, my Touch Browser review
It's mostly listingthe negatives of an app that helps a user the most to decide whether a particular software title is worth installling or the alternatives should be preferred.
Again, note that my reviews are in no way similar to what you can see on most Windows Mobile sites, who don't write / publish comparative reviews. I think my reviews are much more useful to end users than non-comparative ones that don't bother mentioning the negatives of an app.

Strange you only have 15...25% CPU usage - on my Wizard (the same 195 MHz TI OMAP), it's ~48% (as opposed to the 32% default).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's using my own cooked ROM with some memory optimisations (large cache settings etc.) but I can't think how it could have such a large effect...
Possibly a relatively small number of albums?

l3v5y said:
That's using my own cooked ROM with some memory optimisations (large cache settings etc.) but I can't think how it could have such a large effect...
Possibly a relatively small number of albums?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tested with very few songs too. That is, I don't think this causes the difference in CPU usage. Prolly the different hardware?

I've tested with very few songs too. That is, I don't think this causes the difference in CPU usage. Prolly the different hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wizards and Prophets are pretty similar inside, you can flash a Prophet with a Wizard ROM and vice-versa with very minor changes.
Maybe it's just the magic of my Prophet!

Menneisyys said:
On the (several - 5 or 6) PPC's I've installed it on - so that I can provide as much compatibility info as possible -, absolutely no reg tweaking was necessary. It, not taking into account the "no components found" message after the first reset, worked out-of-the-box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<installs>, <plays>, <plays some more>, <likes...>
ok, I was wrong and I like this bit of "fluff" very much....

Joezhang said:
<installs>, <plays>, <plays some more>, <likes...>
ok, I was wrong and I like this bit of "fluff" very much....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad it works with you

Some know if I can run these programs on my ipaq rx4540 ?
thanks

Why WM6.5 SHOULD have Multitouch!

Firstly, I've been following the leaks so far, and so I don't want to hear, oh there won't be a multitouch. The bottom line is, we don't know what the final product will be.
Secondly, it goes without saying, that I support any efforts by MS to incorporate capacitative screens. Currently, there are two known and upcoming solutions to replace the stylus, one an RF pen (a stylus that should work with cap. screens- google it!) and a solution that MS has recently invested in, called something like N-trig.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss, and make content those who are against multitouch if it comes to 6.5, or for that matter, 7.
Now, the main argument against multitouch, is that it is against single-handed usage. Here I will list why that is a moot/null/void argument:
- Using the iPhone as an example firstly (and pretty much throughout but it is not due to me having a liking for it, rather I hate it, but I hope to convey a more profound message), though there is argument over the pinch gesture in Safari (their internet browser), the double-tap to zoom is still available. So, the double-tap that we are used to in Opera, is also in Safari. So one can have it both ways. So, to sum up this point, devs would need to make sure that their programs are made for single handed usage, but that multitouch offers a different (and as some would argue, more enhanced) method of using the phone. So single-handed usage is still there, basically.
- Some games, require pressing of more than one button simultaneously. Now if buttons A, B and C are onscreen and are only viable via touch entry, then we're screwed once again as only one given button can be pressed at one time. If you're a gamer, you will know how big a limitation this is to your phone. It hurts in so many scenarios. If you're not into games, or your games are limited to puzzles: trust me, this is a biggie!
- A similar and relevant point; phones like Touch HD bear the brunt of lacking multitouch, as they don't even have a D-pad for games. So all buttons onscreen (D-pad inclusive) can only be pressed one-at-a-time!
- Whether you like this app or not, it demonstrates that some apps simply cannot do without multitouch. Why put limitations? If you want to argue it is against single-touch usage, then press one button at a time !
- Another app that is somewhat heartwarming . I've used it on an acquaintance's iPhone, and it's nice to swirl two of your fingers through the pond making multiple ripples. Again, just use single touch if you're against double ripples .
- Text entry for those of us that type at lightning speed would be hindered where we are required to press one button right next to the next one in quick succession. Why put this limitation?
- I will add more here onwards if something comes to mind. Maybe. Maybe not.
So all in all, single handed usage can still be there, and MS can enforce this in their SkyStore (app store equivalent), though granted it could be difficult. But most developers would do this, as most do what their customers want, not what I, the dev want.
LASTLY, this is not a WM bashing thread if you think like that, so stop hating! This is for improvements only!

Just to let you know...it's not all M$'s fault..Mostly HTC and the companys that make the devices. Just look at the omnia. It has a capactive touchscreen.

Good Points, and just because WM6.5 has Mutlitouch available doesn't mean devs or phone builders would HAVE to use it.
I'm a big fan of "many options."
Side Note: Moved to General Discussion.

Kraize said:
Just to let you know...it's not all M$'s fault..Mostly HTC and the companys that make the devices. Just look at the omnia. It has a capactive touchscreen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this truly true ? If so, why doesn't Samsung advertise it as much? Also, doesn't the small buttons become difficult to use?
JimmyMcGee said:
Good Points, and just because WM6.5 has Mutlitouch available doesn't mean devs or phone builders would HAVE to use it.
I'm a big fan of "many options."
Side Note: Moved to General Discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is precisely my point! The only little niggle is that devs should make sure that productivity tools allow single handed usage as well. One way would be to enforce this through the SkyStore. Another would be to let the magic happen itself.
I really want to see what people will say against my strong defence of multitouch. Come on people!

It will raise the cost of the devices (both due to the much more expensive screen AND the need for a special, larger stylus) and create a further layer of incompatibility between WM devices (those with multi-touch and those without).
Surur

surur said:
and create a further layer if incomparability between WM devices (those with multi-touch and those without).
Surur
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is why everyone should have to buy a new device when Windows Mobile 7 is released.
Seems people are forgeting WM6.5 is more like Vista, a stop gap before the better OS ie Windows 7

Why WM6.5 does not have mltitouch ?
I will try to answer this question.
The big hardware manifacturers are in the begining of producin multitouch capable phones (you all know that you need multitouch capable digitizer in order to be able to use multitouch). Microsoft communicated with manifacturers and they were not ready with such devices, which is the reason multitouch to be reserved for windows mobile 7.
Seems people are forgeting WM6.5 is more like Vista, a stop gap before the better OS ie Windows 7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree

I see no real benefit in multi-touch on small screen. granted, in games with on devices with minimal input buttons, but until device manufactures actually start releasing 3D drivers for the devices the point about gaming isn't of much substance because there will only be mediocre games.
I don't know what the masses want but I see little benefit in it on screens that one can stretch the thumb from bottom left of the device and reach the top right.
I rather draw a counter clockwise circle to zoom and a clockwise to zoom out.
the real benefit is in the screen response, not the multi-touch. aside from gaming, tell me what other real benefit is there? because I don't see it.
Text entry for those of us that type at lightning speed would be hindered where we are required to press one button right next to the next one in quick succession. Why put this limitation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this depends on the sip you're using and have no reliance on multi-touch capabilities. I see myself as a very fast typist and this is thanks to the sip I'm using.
do this, ask your friend to do this with his iPhone: press 2 keys at the same time while typing the word "Quilts", so your friend would type it like this "Qu" then "il" then "ts" and tell us what's the result. I am pretty curious as to what the results will be. I would ask my girl to do it but she's at work now.

Is there any online task system that will sync with windows mobile? At all?

Is there any free online task (to-do) list that can sync with the tasks in pocket outlook?
I have a few criteria:
1) It can't be through Outlook - I don't have it and don't want to pay for it
2) I don't want to use MyPhone - It would be fine if most of the fields weren't missing with the online interface
3) It has to be free Otherwise I'd just use RTM or Toodledo/Nuevasync
4) It has to sync with pocket outlook - I don't want to use a 3rd party task app
Please? Anybody? There are so many ways to sync either calendar or contacts but none for tasks! I've been looking for so long!
I used to use mail2web but they became not-free...
Thank you in advance...

Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php

borisku said:
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply, but I can't get the free version of essentialPIM to sync. I believe only the full version supports this (and that costs money).

Bump
Is there no program or site which will allow me to sync my tasks for free?
Any free desktop PIM app or site will do... (MyPhone's task support is too anemic for my tastes.)
Anyone? Please...

Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.

trentend said:
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their system is weird. It lets you sync for free for 60 days and from then on you can get more time if you 'help funambol' (post about it, help bugfix it etc...)
Thanks for reminding me about funambol in any case - Will look into it.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!

Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.

deedee said:
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. I never thought of free hosted lotuslive solutions - though I was actively looking for free exchange ones. Will look into this... thanks

Think most people tend to only think of Exchange based solutions as MS are the predominant provider of office based email. As we are a Domino shop at work i tend to keep an eye on what they are doing and thought it might fit your requirements.

Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
(1) OGGsync -- which i don't think is exactly what you want but take a look. It enables you to sync from Windows desktop Outlook to Gmail to windows mobile. It may sound like a weird system, but it has eliminated all that active sync crap. Still, it may not do what you want. And it's a small purchase of $30, i think annually... But it cuts through all the myriad of problems of Active sync cables etc.
SEE SIMPLE OVERVIEW HERE: http://oggsync.com/
SEE REVIEW from WMexperts here: http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ogg_sync_for_windows_mobile.html
(2) ZOHO: This is just around the corner, but I think it's going to be one of the best solutions; I;m not sure of parts of it are there now or not.
Everyone knows of the "Google Cloud" suite of web apps: Gmail, Calendar, Documents, Spreadsheets, and so on. But surprisingly few people know about ZOHO -- a web-based business suite of apps competitor who many reviewers over the past few years have said is superior to Google, product after product. And Zoho has so many more apps it's hard to believe how "unknown" they are, like great project management software, one of the best wiki software designs EVER, made for non-techie people... etc. If I recall, I think individual usage of all of Zoho's web apps is free.
HERE, from the ZOHO Business Suit forums, is the status of their sync system for Windows Mobile: http://forums.zoho.com/topic/mobile-sync
And a brief review, but tons of them if you want to explore further.
http://www.reviewsaurus.com/web-applications-reviews/zoho-works-on-your-windows-mobile-too/

quicksite said:
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
I've all ready looked at goosync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop and they actually sponsored a competition at my old college (I did my undergrad in india, which is where I am from).
They haven't implemented their sync system yet.. so I am still holding out... but I will probably shift when they get it all working.
For now I am looking at the lotuslive solution posted above - It looks promising.
I only wish myphone had a better interface - more ajax and a greater emphasis on content management rather than just backup (integration with windows live wouldn't hurt either...)
Thanks anyways.
I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...

LOOK AT ME! COMPLETELY off-topic post!
charge1313 said:
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, but in all fairness, where's the incentive? WM 7 already a year behind competition, pretty much even acknowledged by Ballmer, was due, finally, Feb 2010. Months after Android hit warp speed in October and then became the CHristmas, New Year's and now January story with Nexus One, even February is BEHIND significantly... but nobody needs to be reminded of that here.
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Point being, now WM 7 slipped to June 2010, and from twitter feeds I subscribe to, possibly now not even til September 2010!
Prob in that same time frame, Google will have released not just the Nexus Two phone (possibly the Motorola Shadow - a phone with slide down keyboard, kind of like the Pre), but maybe even a Nexus Three phone, and god only knows what kind of updates to Android.
I don't really much care what Apple does in this realm because I hate AT&T so badly that even if Apple does indeed revamp the iphone form factor and architecture and get it up to speed with real multi-tasking, Apple shall remain punished by me for making their exclusive deal with the devil. (Believe it or not, some consumers still vote against really bad corporate decisions with pocket book). I am an Apple user in the desktop/laptop realm, but could care less about the iphone... but even THEY are moving forward in this Jan-September timeframe. Everyone knows Apple refreshes their lines every 3 years or so, and they make big leaps, not small ones.
I have no doubt WM 7 will be a good OS, I really believe it WILL be -- and it better be -- or for sure it would, by September, be game over for Windows Mobile if they launch an already late OS rethink that, upon finally launching, doesn't wow the pants off the competition and consumers. I suspect it will follow the UI experience of the Zune HD, which I think has been very good, with a very interesting UI concept of Zooming-in deeply into a subject matter area, like Music, and zooming out with a kind of 3D effect of moving in space behind the screen surface. (Hmm, looks like I am not the only one who thinks so -- but this article at MobileTechWorld also trashes the Russian blogger who claims to have seen it in action)
Add this additional news to the mix and there are slimmer and slimmer reasons why someone would want to stick with WM and take that risk. (HTC has now shipped to stores its capacitive screen stylus -- puncturing yet another hole in the "must have windows mobile to work with mobile phone spreadsheets" desperation about why the world still NEEDS windows mobile.)
The final argument of course is "anyone serious about running business apps" and "anyone whose corporate IT dept requires Microsoft Exchange server compatibility will NEED to run windows mobile"... I have to say to anyone raising those arguments: PROVE IT. Which apps exactly can only run on WM... maybe yes, there is a valid case to be made. But the generalization, to me, is no longer valid -- in the same way 15 years ago people said apple could never be taken seriously in a business environment because it doesn;t run MS Office -- then of course it did, and that argument became moot.
I'm not acting all smug about my own shift to Android -- becasue there are for SURE some significant things I miss from my WM phone which I had 5 years ago -- jotting down notes using a stylus, or drawing a quick sketch to show someone an idea, or graphical illustration... I also miss the damn up-down-left-right D-pad, which is way way WAY better than the trackball on most android devices other than Sane Samsung who preserved the D-pad... wait come to think of it, so did Motorola on both their Oct-Nov-Dec new phones.
I'm just saying that in addition to my actually loving that Hero phone, and the HTC senseUI (which, yes, can & does run on WM as well), that I just don't feel like I have anything to lose by jettisoning WM for good... sorry to say.
BUT -- if they have good reason to be so late with WM 7, because it;s filled with game-changing surprises*, then I will stuff all these words into my mouth and eat them. (*And that means more than cute fun facebook-headed people poking at Excel-headed people)
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
I've all ready looked at OGGsync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two things: I regret even bringing it up, because I hadn't read your post carefully -- but only read the headline... So I missed the boat by miles because once i read the post you said clearly: NO OUTLOOK! and NO FEES!
Still, just to clarify, OGGsync is $30/year, not month. And I guess my question is, what about Google Sync? If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop... I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....

^^ Lol. I can't help but laugh. I empathise with you so much!
quicksite said:
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what? Personally, I don't like the whole finger-friendly thing. I want speed and capability and information density. I don't care how easy it is to get from A to Z - I want to get there fast and effectively even if the learning curve is steep. Which is why I thought that the pinacle of windows mobile was the Axim X51 - It was fast and powerful and had features that outclass many of today's handsets.
6.5 was a let down - it actually killed functionality while giving me nothing. Titanium is the best example of this - Its nice to look at but it the end, it has less info per screen than the old home, takes longer to work with and is MUCH less configurable.
My current windows phone is a samsung jack. Its windows mobile standard. And IMO its the best mobile OS out there now. Except for one single thing - the lack of damn apps.
You'd think there would be thousands of apps considering the number of blackjacks out there but nooooo...
Windows mobile is the (Or should have been) the no-nonsense OS. It should be crazy configurable if you want it to be but just extremly usable if you're not into all that - a system that syncs with anything, works with every service and is in general the best PDA man has yet conceived. Sadly it isn't there any more..
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.. its ok. I've gone on my own WM rants all too often. I know exactly where you are coming from.
[/I][/B] If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google sync doesn't support tasks. Otherwise I'd use it. I use soocial for my contacts, gcal (through nuevasync) for my calendar and now I guess lotus for my tasks - remarkably inelegant but I guess I have little choice.
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am uncomfortable with having all my stuff in the cloud -I firmly believe that cloud services can only complement local services.. something like the office live solution. Tasks and calendar are something else - mostly because my choices are so limited
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Thanks. And absolutely zero hard feelings...

I learned a lot from you on this thread, though i didn't help you at all
I hear you re information per screen, information density
Okay, i admit that mny T-mobile wing running WM 6.1 with custom rom from Ivan here at XDA just kicked ass, and still does. Funny but it has better version of google maps than google maps on my hero android phone.. i surely don't get that.
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again,
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
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quicksite said:
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys.
The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
,
Very true. In the end, I want my phone to help me get things done, not as an entertainment device or anything else. Hence my statement about WM standard rocking. Copilot live, for example, has a great interface - its actually faster than using a touchscreen and needs less involvement.
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a student in the US without and aid. Hence no. Not a chance in hell unless I get a ton of cash.
I suspect my next phone will be WM7 (my Jack's contract is only a few months old).. leaves plenty of time for WM 7 to release and for a decent app market to develop.
I hope.
Or else I'll go for whichever android device I can find (I need multitasking - this basically kills the Iphone)

I feel i am compelled to respond to a nit with a nit , hah ha. re:
charge1313 said:
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys. The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
I had its predecessor, the MDA, and the Wing completely became an ergonomic pleasure to use. whether I used my left hand or my right hand, the additional hard keys on sides of the phone, plus the bottom of the phone, hit exactly in the right spots re hands, finger, thumbs. And though it was mostly a remake of the MDA (both HTC phones), the Wing nailed it for me where the MDA was, pardon the expression, a piece of crap for me, though also my first touchscreen phone.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu. Sliding my thumb down to the D-pad was smooth, no bumps at all, and instant recognitoon even in the dark what the functions were and so easy to press in quad direction, then click enter/center. Similarly the ergonomic design of the Call button and end button, and the 2 additional keys around each, was just the height of ergonomic perfection. No way of mistaking which key was which, yet a slight shift in any direction and the desired key was hit perpectly, and not requiring a lot ofpressure.. just the right amount, plus tactile feedback with hardware clicks for certainty of entry. The okay button doen there by the end call i remapped to "Today", which always made home screen 1-click away for times when an app didn't have an easy-access close-button.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Sliding out the keyboard was so simple because the left fingers wrapped around the device were already positiioned to push the top screen to reveal the keyboard. Everyuthing fit in the hand perfectly...
Which leads to my last comment... I love my new HTC Hero for its size and ergonomics.. I have not used yet some of these new larger screen devices but if the WING and the HERO fit perfectly into my hand in its natural resting position of fingers, then it seems logical to guess that larger device require a wider grasp -- even if miniscule, which activates all sort of other micro-muscles in fingers, thumb, and palm of hand --
I am guessing there will be not one person who will ever fess up that a larger device results in some slight or more-than-slight greater muscular fatigue of the hand and repetitive stress.
So even though you're focus is on WM6 - THE KING! -- my focus is on how HTC learned to optimize the controls of WM6, making the WING, for example, a phenomenal exmaple of product design.
Now since lots of HTC devices held similar footprimnts, maybe lots of HTC devices had the same kind of ergonomic optimization as the WING, prob so.
I can just speak to the wing.... So, there is no way I would credit WM alone for the usability "sweet spot" you have liked. Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
thanks again for a truly rare discussion about human usability vs whiz-bang. Way too little of the former occupies this site, way more the latter dominates the site.

Try the my Funambol service - http://my.funambol.com , free

I wish the mods could SPLIT this thread - to preserve the "future of WM"
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
just my opinion ... but I have many of them .. so i am sure the world is fine without a split thread

Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same can be said of my gene. With a custom 6.1 rom (for here, of course) it was the fastest smartphone anyone I knew had. Despite having a lousey 200mghz processor and next to no ram. Of course, thats also because I ran it overclocked to 247 Mghz.
It had a ton of configurable keys - most of them configured to do a whole series of context based events via mortscript.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neat. Did you use mortscript?
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly like my gene. Except there I had it mapped to a task manager.
Boy, did they know how to build phones back in the day.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used both - several of my favorite roms actually came with WKtask by default. But in the end I found that simply using the default 6.1 task manager was the lightest and the best.
Still, I've jumped back and forth between using WKtask, Quickmenu etc enough times to know how awesome they were.
And this, again, brings me back to why my jack rocks. I can open up a site or an app from the home screen and actually do something useful (like, say, check my tasks on agenda one) faster than an android device (htc dream) or an ipod touch/iphone.
Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. HTC's design was brilliant. And so was Samsung's with the blackjacks and the jack. IMO the current crop of WM devices are a result of misguided logic. Microsoft and HTC have looked at the success of the iphone and created a hybrid system which lacks the strengths of either. Thats their failing - trying to do something they were never good while ignoring their awesome lead in actual productivity and flexibility.
Seriously, take a dell axim and see how well you can do stuff with it. I bet if microsoft had put their efforts into making WM 7 the natural progression of the WM series (exclude 6.5 please) it would be out by now and a device like the touch pro would completely kick the iphone in terms of general usage.
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't argue against this. The original intent of this thread has largely been satisfied.
I've found an exchange class solution for my needs
If the mods think its sensible to split this thread then please do so..

Comparing Rooted Android against Jailbroken iPhone

Hi all,
In the past three years, we've witnessed greatly increased competition among smartphones. Android and iPhone are considered by some to be the two most serious contenders, and both have attracted many new users who migrated from the other platform. I myself was a devoted winmo user, and had used every generation of winmo phones/PDA since the late 90's. When iPhone was first released, I did not take it seriously at all, because there were so many limitations and the initial phone did not support third party applications. I made the change from winmo to iPhone only in 2009 after a rather detailed comparison exercise between winmo and iPhone. I've been more than happy with my decision and the jailbroken phone. However, technology does not stay still, and there has been lots of changes especially in the hardware end and the entry of Google into the smartphone business. Personally, I'm greately tempted by the potential of hugh screen size offered by handsets such as the HTC supersonic, and would like to understand if my smartphone experience could be enhanced even more by switching to Android. I also think that this topic area would appear on the forum for every single Android phone, and it might be good to centralise the discussion to get the maximum input possible. Hence this thread.
RULE FOR THID THREAD:
Rule 1: General Courtesy:
I would like to state that this is not a thread for any basher or haters of Google or Apple. If you're one of them, please leave and preach your anti-evil corporation philosophy elsewhere. This is also not meant to be a thread to try to convert any Google phone user to iPhone or vise versa, so while I recognise it's going to be hard, please try your best to stay objective and refrain from imposing your opinion as the only possible logical choice on others. I plead that all you all observe this, so as to get to the end of all the discussion and research as efficiently as possible.
Note: While it is not within my power to remove trouble makers, I will not be responding to any troll on this thread.
Rule 2: Discuss one area at a time, with suitable heading in the title of your post.
This thread may become very long, and people interested in finding out specific comparison should not be made to read through every word in every post. So, let's always describe in the title of your post what your points pertain to.
For now, the title descriptions to be used are: (If you feel the need to have additional topic area for comparision, please let me know so that it can be added here)
- Cut and paste design
- Multitasking design
- hardware button design
- multimedia capabilities
- Touchscreen technology
- Storage capability
- Processor and graphic capability
- Market place
- Application software
- Vendor support
- Firmware upgrade
- Battery life and design
- Camera and video
- Best GPS software (I feel that this is important enough to warrant distinct segregation)
- Theme and UI customization capabiilty
- User interface of applications
- User interface of desktop/sprinboard/program launcher/widget/task switcher
- Application defaults
- Notification handling
- Best web browsing application
- Global search
- Speech recognition
- Device management (backup, restore, syncing, etc)
- Side loading of applications
- File Management and Access
- Using it as a business phone
Rule 3: FULL potential of the phone. You can tweak, customize, as long as the procedure could reasonably be expected of an ordinary user.
Since this thread is mean to help END user choose the BEST phones in the market, the capability that you discuss must come from application programs that has already been made available to the public rather than something that can be done but requires programming knowledge to achieve it. Similar, it. A jailbroken/rooted phone's capability can be discussed as long as the jailbreak tool is available and could reasonably be performed by an average user without hacking skill to personally do the hacking themselves. Also, since my intention is mainly to find out which should be my next phone, we should base it on OS4.0 in iPhone, iPhone HD, and the best possible Android hardware likely to be available in the next few months, and I assume this is HTC Supersonic.
Therefore, no "the phone is crippled out of the box" type of debates please.
Rule 4: Focus on describing the capability rather then merely state your opinion on your preference without backing it up. (For this reason, I'll only draw up a comparision chart after giving everyone the chance to state all the known facts.). Try to state the name of the program/utility that you would use to achieve that capability. I think this would be highly educational.
Enough rules for now. Let's see how it goes.
Thank you for participating on this thread.
Cheers.

Summary post (reserved)
Summary post (reserved for future use)

Summary post 2(reserved)
Reserved for future use.

Summary post 3
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Cut and Paste design
Android
-------
Please correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is that the cut and paste design is a little inconsistent depending on the OEM. I've personally played with a Samsung Galaxy, and noted two different cut and paste design:
1) Press and hold. Unfortunately, there is no magnifying glass pop up to indicate the position of the cursor. You have then to use the joystick(not sure if this is what they call it) to position it.
2) I vaguely remember at other place, method 1 is not supported. You have to use the hardware button , and select an item there in order to do copy and paste.
Recently, I had a chance to look at a video showing the cut and paste in one of the HTC Android phones, and noted a third method, very similar to iPhone, but the magnifying glass is square rather than round.
I also got the impression that copy and paste is not supported on non-enterable field. I'm seeking users with expertise to correct/enhance this piece of information.
Edit: See post #71 for some more precise description on how cut and paste works in Android, described by dsymbol.
iPhone
------
Press and hold will provide the handle to select the text for copying. This pretty much work across all the places, including email, webpages, on both enterable and non-enterable fields.
Edit: However, there ARE also some rare exceptions where inconsistencies have been found, mainly arising from software created before iPhone introduced cut and paste in version 3.0 I think. An example that comes to my mind is an office document application called QuickOffice, which was around prior to OS3.0 I think. Here, to select text in the word document, instead of holding your finger down, you have to double tap to reveal the handle for text selection, you then press an icon at the bottom to copy or cut. This is quite different from the usual methods used by applications using the Apple's standard API. Most office documents applications including Office2 (It is actually Office square, with a little 2 at the top right of the word Office) and Document to Go are using the familiar cut and paste used everywhere else.

Multimedia capability
A. Using hardware button to start/pause/skip/repeat song and change volume without headset
- iPhone: Yes, using a Cydia application called VolumeButton Extender
- Android: hardware button can only control volume and not pause/play/skip/repeat.
B. Using supplied headset to start/pause/skip/repeat song and control volume
- iPhone: Yes.
- Android: It can start/pause/skip/repeat with the phone in the pocket, but any volume change must be done on the device itself.
C: Volume change increment:
- iPhone: 16 volume increment, allowing you have have the volume closest to your need, e.g, listening music while trying to get to sleep without being kept awake.
- Android: 8 only, therefore offering less precise volume level for the user. Not sure if this is device specific or generic across all Android phones.
D: Playlist combining audio and video files and playing video files with phone shut off.
- iPhone: Yes. In order to play video with screen completely shut off, switch off the phone, and on the lock screen start the music player, then switch off.
- Android: It is possible to play music video with the screen shut off, but you cannot combine video and audio in the playlist. In fact the default music player does not play video - only audio.
I invite Android users to help to beef up or correct information pertaining to rooted Android phone's capabilities.

Multitasking
A: Extend of multitasking for third party applications.
Android: All applications seems to be kept alive regardless of the situations.
iPhone: If you use the Backgrounder, all applications and processes could be kept alive. If you use the smart multitasking from Apple itself, only processes that needs to be kept alive are kept alive. Such processes include GPS function, audio streaming, file upload/download where the service must be completed without interuption. Apple believes that this smart multitasking is the key to battary life and performance, so have chosen this implementation instead of what Steve Job called an easy but wrong method of "full multitasking". Application's "state" is saved, so users need not exit an application when switching to another one.
B: Methods of task switching by showing active tasks and choosing it.
Android: Menu button to show the most recently used task, which could be different from active task. Hence a newly boot up Android might not show the phone application although it is already active. This is the only method for switching to other running application without going to the program launcher.
iPhone: Many options exist to show active tasks and choosing which to switch to. Method of invoking could be one of the 19 ways provided by the Activator(methods include single click of home key, double click of home key, press and hold the home key, shake the device, double press the sleep button quickly, press and hold the sleep button, slide into the screen from below, slide into the screen from bottom left, slide into the screen from bottom right, pinch the springboard, spread the springboard, double tap the status bar, tap and hold the status bar, swipe down the status bar, swipe left on the status bar, swipe right on the status bar, tap on volume heads up display, press volume down then up, press volume up then down.)
Kirikae: list the active task. You can kill the application or switch to it there.
Circuitous: List the icons of the active task. You can kill the application or switch to it there.
Multiflow: Display and switch to task Palm Pre style. You may close the application by swiping it off, among many available methods.
ProSwitcher: Display and switch to task Palm Pre style. You may close the application by swiping it off, among many available methods.
There are others doing more or less the same thing which I would not bother listing on. You just have to choose a method that suits your own preference and personality.
With OS4.0, double click of home button will show the most recent task on the dock and switch to the application there. You might close the application by holding the icon until it wobbles and press the deletion badge.
C: Going directly to the next and previous application without bringing up a list of task:
Android: You may use the back button to go the previous application. Going to the next application is not supported by one click/touch operation.
iPhone: Using Circuiutous, you may use any of the 19 methods mentioned above to go to the next and previous application. Some people find it extremely intuitive to swipe the taskbar left and right to go to next or previous application, similar to the way pictures are changed. You could of course also use hardware button if that's what you prefer.
I invite Android users to correct/beef up any unmentioned methods.

boi youre wastin your time,
pick up your iphone and go to hell with it...

steve,
It would be nice and easier to just have a comparison table like the one Sethos II made.

gogol said:
steve,
It would be nice and easier to just have a comparison table like the one Sethos II made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestion. My intention was to draw that up only after all the facts are known, rather than making biased conclusion without the benefit of complete information. It will be included later. That's why I've reserved a few empty posts to do just that.

Battery life and design
A. Removable battary - This is something that I cherish quite a lot during my winmo days. I liked the ability to carry along spare battaries before I board the plane for a long trip for example, where power source is an issue.
Android - YES!
iPhone - No. There are alternative portable power packs but they tend to make the phone bulkier. There are also portable chargers, but these solution is just not as good as having user replaceable battaries.

File Manager and Access
A. File Manager
iPhone:
Using an application like iFile from Cydia, users could see all the directories and subdirectories, and files in all directories. It also allows the files to be copied, deleted, moved. Clicking on a picture would display the picture, clicking on a music file will play the music file.
However, if you're trying to do a file attachment on a forum like here, it cannot be done.
Android: Same weakness due to not having a native file manager???
B. Ability for all applications to use the same directory?
iPhone:
Generally there is no such capability, although there are exception (e.g. The music player dTune could play music files downloaded with the Music Meow application). Therefore, if I have more than one spreadsheet programs in an iPhone, these different applications could not update the same spreadsheet file because the file has to be stored in the application's own directory. iFile of course could access any directory and display files in any directory.
Android:
Any such limitation? Which are some of the popular spreadsheet applications for example? Could you specify the location of the saved files to be anywhere?

Side loading of applications
Sideloading allows users to install programs which were not from the officially sactioned market place:
Android: - Yes.
iPhone - Yes. Non-programmer type users could install applications from the Cydia store. These are often program that Apple won't approve, but could also contain applications removed from the App Store such as porn applications.

Multimedia capabilities
A. Video playback test.
I invite anyone to provide links of videos for testing purposes to compare the two phone's playback capability.
For now, I would like to get you guys to refer to this thread and see if the video play by just clicking on the link. If not, are you able to download it and play smoothly, without pause or frame loss? Without the audio/video going out of sync? Details about this video is in post #7. The file is made for the screen resolution of HD2.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=645610
iPhone:
Yes. Without conversion, it plays smoothly although the video is not made for the iPhone screen resolution.
See youtube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAGqKYlSnHA - this is playing after downloading the file
Here is the video test when played directly rather than downloded first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C39CHtqOAso
Android:
Does it play?

Did I miss something or there's nothing about, say, business capabilities - Exchange and Office support? Don't know how to label the post, but here's the question:
On the iPhone, I know there are office package(s) available, but here's what I want to know - how do you transfer files there? Do you get a documents folder or do you need to look for a directory with one of those cryptic names? Also, how does it handle email attachments? Can I save a ppt I receive for later use in the office program?
With regard to Exchange - can I have full support that will include push for Tasks, Email, Calendar and Contacts? Not push for the latter three and manual sync for Tasks?

Best GPS software
iPhone:
Probably no single vendor can justifiably claim that they have the best GPS in every country. TomTom is the best in Australia (I'll justify that assessment later), but it is probably not as good in say Navigon in US, if we base it on sales statistics. The major choices are:
TomTom
Navigon
iGO
NDrive
Sygic
M6 (which I understand is the best in Asean)
Copilot
Each user may have a different idea of what constitute the best. Some value live traffics, some speed warning, some completeness of road speed information for speed monitoring, some warning upon approaching schools, some the ability to perform google search in addition to POI search, some 3D realistic view, some music control within the application, some intelligent routing that considers traffic congestions among other things, some text to speech, some multitouch user interface for map zooming in and out, some completeness of safety camera database, some map currency.
In Australia, my own preference is TomTom. It has extremely nice user interface, google search , very complete speed information for all roads, map is quite up to date for most places, it incorporates pinch and zoom, warn you when appraoching safety camera and when you overspeed, allows easy control of music without leaving the application, has 3D realistic view for major highway exits and intersections, decent text to speech option. After receiving phone calls, it automatically resume with the most up-to-seconds GPS coordinate and location without waiting for signal. If the call is terminated by the other party there is no need to touch the phone for the resume to be completed.
Sygic also uses the same map, but the UI is bad and reminds me of the winmo style, although the UI is still way better than winmo type of GPS.
Navigon, Copilot, iGo, NDrive all uses maps with rather incomplete speed information in Australia.
Android GPS ??
Which is the best in Australia and what can it do?

Note: I use Android, so if it sounds like I am biased, it's because I am (Although I tried to stay unbias). I removed some categories because I felt that either I did not know the answer (Rare) or that I didn't feel like taking the time to write one up. These are NOT definitive answers based on potential, this is purely from stock functionality (With touches on their equivalent of being rooted sometimes). Why did I do a stock comparison? This because 1) That's what most people will use and 2) The limits of both OS' when rooted/jailbroken are almost non-existent
- Cut and paste design
iPhone: Hold over text, magnifying glass comes up, release to get the two bars then drag them to copy. This is pretty straight-forward.
Android: Method 1- Hold on text entry place, then choose "Select All" or "select Text"
Method 2- If your device has a keyboard, hold the shift button and select text (Works in most places)
Method 3 (Limited to 2.1 sense Users)- Same as iPhone, but it has a few more options than cut, copy, paste.
- Multitasking design
iPhone; Currently not available for stock and I have no experience of it with a kailbroken iPhone
Android: Android multi-tasks without tweaking. It can hold as many app in memory as RAM allows (It will only kill processes when the processes kill themselves or when it runs out of memory, in which case it kills the oldest ones). To see a list of RECENTLY running processes, hold the home button. This will bring up a list of the last 6 used (Obviously it's not practical to show the 50 or so the Nexus can have running at the same time).
- hardware button design
iPhone: Home button which is multi-functional (Home, Double tap will have different functions depending on users choice/firmware), (Camera Button?), Volume Rocker, and Sleep/Wake Button.
Android: All Android phones MUST include at least a Home Button (also multi-functional, but not as much so), a Menu Button, a Back Button, and as far as I know an End Call Button. They also usually include a camera button and a volume rocker.
- multimedia capabilities
Not quite sure what we want here, but if it is how the experience is, the iPhone wins pretty heavily. Android can do the same exact things, but it looks ugly while doing it. Sense Users have the best form of Music app in Htc Music, but I'll try to stick to stock for now.
- Storage capability
iPhone: Whichever size you buy is what you're stuck with for life (16 or 32gb in 3GS)
Android: Normally have limited internal memory (Action of phone manufacturer) which means many apps may not be installed (Not a problem as most Android apps are under 1mb). Sdcards are used, give an "unlimited" amount of external storage.
- Processor and graphic capability
iPhone: Pretty sure it's 600 mhz, correct me if wrong
Android: So far we're at 1ghz, need I say more?
- Market place
iPhone: Don't own one so someone else will need to cover this
Android: Mention what you need to know and one of us Android users will tell you.
- Application software
Not quite sure what we mean by this.
- Vendor support
Both operating systems is for as long as the hardware capabilities don't force them to stop supporting it.
- Firmware upgrade
iPhone: Upgrade through iTunes, you may not get all features in the firmware update.
Android: OTA updates, if you're getting the update you usually get everything in it.
- Battery life and design
iPhone: No removable battery, and from what I've heard, battery life sucks.
Android: Removable Batteries, from what I've heard, the Nexus can go a day and a half no problem. The Nexus is thinner than iPhone, has a bigger screen, looks sexy but the iPhone would win in this department (But the plastic backs kind of kill it on the iPhone for me)
- Best GPS software (I feel that this is important enough to warrant distinct segregation)
iPhone: Third-Party apps, not sure which is best
Android: The Google Navigation is by far the best I have ever used
- Theme and UI customization capabiilty
iPhone: Out of the box, you can change the lockscreen wallpaper and move icons around.
Android: Wallpaper, Homescreens, can replace anything if you don't like it (Most apps will allow you to use that instead of the stock app equivalent).
- User interface of applications:
iPhone: In my opinion, they are all a little stale because they use the SAME exact interface (But that's the point of a user interface).They use the bar at top, bar at bottom for navigation, it's all equivalent to the stock apps
Android: They vary a little more in UI but they all are the same on thie inside. Press Menu to view options, they all have the grey bar (Mostly because this is integrated into the Android framework)
- User interface of desktop/sprinboard/program launcher/widget/task switcher
iPhone:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Android:
- Notification handling
iPhone: Annoying popups, 'nuf said
Android: Status bar, pull down to see all notifications
- Best web browsing application
Not really a fair comparison as iPhone has two (Opera or Safari)
- Global search
iPhone: Can search all device files from homescreen
Android: Same as iPhone but the web search is also integrated
- Speech recognition
iPhone: Voice Over, For Music and...? purposes
Android: Voice Search by holding the search button, Voice Dialer by holding send button, voice keyboard in all text entry fields
- Side loading of applications
Clarification?
- File Management and Access
iPhone: Not sure
Android: Have full access to the all partitions other than the system partition (AFAIK) without root.

Ok so here is my verdict on iPhone Vs ANDROID
When iPhone was release i was an Apple fanboy form that very time, i paid heavily for iPhones, they were like life to me, i have every iPhone to date and the first android i got was the G1, on using it i could only say one thing, it is the future and it is proved itself day by day
Experiences
1. Jailbroken iPhone
I love how u can do almost anything but nothing in the iPhone, only thing an iPhone drools over is apps and apps and nothing else. iPhone has an edge over android in just apps. For everything else u are crippled and for anything u want to do u ought to have a computer. Battery life is not what i would love and it has a boring interface good enough for 50 year old person who can just understand to dialer and dial
Android
Android is still immature, one thing u would hate about android is that it updates acc. to devices, it will add a feature only when a device is made to have the feature. other things Android is the most customizable OS ever made in the history of smartphones and mobiles. It has a clean interface if u understand it and by far the most efficient in everything it does. You shouldnt be surprised when it updates itself to become more efficient. iPhone revolutionized the designing but android revolutionized software. Android what i say is a complete OS, it just like a mini computer, to use it u dont need to have a computer, u can do everything on the phone itself, u want to add some music, videos anything do it on the phone itself, u want to update, download do it on the phone itself and it is robust enough to even create websites, i created my website using my android phone and nothing else, Android has endless possibilities.
Multimedia-
u dont have to be tied to computer to do anything on android. U can use anything 3rd party if u dont like stock, 3rd party has the ability to add more stuff which is not in stock. onlu con is that u have no equalizer.
It can play more formats than iPhone, u dont need to convert and sync music, u r not tied to use the default music player. The gallery is the best one around.
Android has the most user friendly interface, what u need most is on the desktop others in the drawer. In iPhone u have to arrange every app u install, u can just move in one way, what u have on front is the same old apps icons, android u have icons, widgets and more.
iPhone has one prop and that is app android has one con that is less apps thats it. everything is editable if u r rooted, u can edit anything u want, u have the source to the platform, u can build one urself, if u know coding u can add everything and anything to it
So Android is gonna have more apps in some time and iPhone will age sooner than intended. Comparing Rooted Android to iPhone is like comparing Gold to Brick. As i already told with ur android being rooted u can add any feature urself by editing directly in the source code, and iPhone u r stuck with Cydia developers who can change how the iPhone OS functions but can only add features

vangrieg said:
Did I miss something or there's nothing about, say, business capabilities - Exchange and Office support? Don't know how to label the post, but here's the question:
On the iPhone, I know there are office package(s) available, but here's what I want to know - how do you transfer files there? Do you get a documents folder or do you need to look for a directory with one of those cryptic names? Also, how does it handle email attachments? Can I save a ppt I receive for later use in the office program?
With regard to Exchange - can I have full support that will include push for Tasks, Email, Calendar and Contacts? Not push for the latter three and manual sync for Tasks?
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Yes, good point. It must be considered.
What are "business capabilities" though? I think we need to have a good list of what these are. Let start with what you already got and add some to it myself:
- Exchange support (perhaps even MULTIPLE exchange support) for address, calendar, tasks, and email.
- Ability to edit and create office documents with reasonably complete functions in say excel spreadsheet.
- Saving attachments in email, editing them, and resending them out.
- Presence of client applications that works together with enterprise software such as SAP.
- Ability to remote wipe data from lost phones
- Ability to install corporate applications over the air
- Conference call or even video conferencing to substitute face to face meetings
- Printing of documents (e.g. customers require receipts, written quotation, etc)
- Ability to prevent data from physically removed from the phone via MicroSDHC card or alternatively ability to enforce highly reliable data encryption on data stored there.
- Ability to enforce use of password on phone?
- Ability to PREVENT it from becoming so much fun that employees spend all their time on facebook, chats, and games??? (Hence they would prefer RIM phones??)
Anyone else can think of what the corporate IT people might look for in choosing a corporate phone? Or is it more of matter of "the boss loves his iPhone, so we have no choice but to allow it?"

Thanks for this.
charnsingh_online said:
I love how u can do almost anything but nothing in the iPhone, only thing an iPhone drools over is apps and apps and nothing else. iPhone has an edge over android in just apps. For everything else u are crippled
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Can you comprehensively list in which areas iPhone is crippled? Sometimes people think that a phone can't do certainly thing, but it could be due to lack of awareness and knowledge of the capability. Thats' one of the reason for having this thread - to learn from each other. To get maximum benefit from each other's experience, let's keep our mind open to new information.
charnsingh_online said:
and for anything u want to do u ought to have a computer.
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Really? This is new to me. I would like to offer a different perspective on this.
I know iPhone lets you install new programs and updates , buy music/video/movies, edit photo taken, compile musics, and make songs of your own, send files to another phone without going through a computer.
There are only three things that strictly requires computer:
a. Install new firmware and perform restore, which is once in a while event that I would rather use my PC anyway in view of how large the file is and how expensive my 3G data quota would cost me.
b. Performing backup and restore. This would also include backing up application data such as that for eWallet, GolfCard, PocketMoney, etc.
c. Syncing to outlook
You may see the need for a computer to do this as a negative, but I personally see that as a positive. Because with this I have the ability to backup my entire device and if my phone requires a restore/hard reset/or replacement, I can recover every applications including the data quickly. It is not practical to do backup of such large amount of data over the air. It is also not assuring from security viewpoint to keep any of your phone data in the cloud. The only place to keep them is your own PC.
charnsingh_online said:
Battery life is not what i would love
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In terms of length of a single battery, I really do not have any complaint against iPhone. It is more or less the same situation with the other HTC phones which I owned. It varies depending on usage pattern, brightness level, how tempted you are to look at the beautiful screen every 5 minutes, whether you leave location service/bluetooth/3G/wifi running, the strength of the cell signal, etc. Frankly, I think it's hard to say which battery is better due to the difficulties in measurement, different age of the batteries being compared, etc.
The only complain I had was the fact that it's non-replaceable.
charnsingh_online said:
it has a boring interface
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I assume you're talking about the home page here?
Have you used home page replacement products such as Overboard or Pogoplank? Or themes.
charnsingh_online said:
Android is still immature, one thing u would hate about android is that it updates acc. to devices, it will add a feature only when a device is made to have the feature.
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I don't quite understand what you mean by "it updates acc. to devices" or "will add a feature only when a device to made to have a feature"- would you mind clarify this point please? Has this got anything to do with the "fragmentation" problem that they talked about?
charnsingh_online said:
other things Android is the most customizable OS ever made in the history of smartphones and mobiles.
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Would you mind explain in a little more details on what sorts of customization are possible?
charnsingh_online said:
It has a clean interface if u understand it and by far the most efficient in everything it does.
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How so?
charnsingh_online said:
is a complete OS, it just like a mini computer, to use it u dont need to have a computer, u can do everything on the phone itself, u want to add some music, videos anything do it on the phone itself, u want to update, download do it on the phone itself and it is robust enough to even create websites, i created my website using my android phone and nothing else, Android has endless possibilities.
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Are you of the impression that adding music, videos, updates, download are not possible on iPhone and that everything has to be done on the PC first?
charnsingh_online said:
u dont have to be tied to computer to do anything on android. U can use anything 3rd party if u dont like stock, 3rd party has the ability to add more stuff which is not in stock. onlu con is that u have no equalizer.
It can play more formats than iPhone, u dont need to convert and sync music, u r not tied to use the default music player. The gallery is the best one around.
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How is this different from iPhone again?
charnsingh_online said:
Android has the most user friendly interface, what u need most is on the desktop others in the drawer. In iPhone u have to arrange every app u install, u can just move in one way, what u have on front is the same old apps icons, android u have icons, widgets and more.
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Can you explain in what way it has the most user friendly interface? Here you're talking about the desktop/program launcher. So you said that the frequently used programs can be kept on the desktop along with widgets, etc, and then you can have "drawer" to contain the other programs, right?
Please tell me when you're in the middle of a program and wish to start a new program inside one of the drawers, what is the procedure to start that program. Is it 1)Menu to go to desktop 2) Swipe to the place where drawer is located 3) click on the drawer 4) touch the icon of the drawer?
charnsingh_online said:
iPhone has one prop and that is app android has one con that is less apps thats it. everything is editable if u r rooted, u can edit anything u want, u have the source to the platform, u can build one urself, if u know coding u can add everything and anything to it
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Click to collapse
charnsingh_online said:
As i already told with ur android being rooted u can add any feature urself by editing directly in the source code, and iPhone u r stuck with Cydia developers who can change how the iPhone OS functions but can only add features
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You may or may not be right here. I don't know the technical aspect of the two platform to judge. However, for the purpose of this thread, as mentioned in post 1, we're only looking at the capability of the phone from the viewpoint of the masses of ordinary users out there, not the OS programmer. So, if you don't mind, I'd skip this. But just for curiosity, do you yourself modify the Android OS now by editing in the source code of Android OS?
charnsingh_online said:
So Android is gonna have more apps in some time and iPhone will age sooner than intended.
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I hope so. I hope to see TomTom for Android ASAP.