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Court asks Samsung to give samples of Galaxy S2, Tabs, Infuse 4G, Droid charge to Apple
http://androidos.in/2011/05/court-a...laxy-s2-tabs-infuse-4g-droid-charge-to-apple/
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/05/19/36708.htm
"Because these claims are subject to consumer confusion and "ordinary observer" standards, the products themselves and the packaging in which they are sold are likely to be central to any motion for preliminary injunction" -apple
consumer confusion?? what kind of BS is that?
do you see people confusing a Hyundai as a Mercedes?? (hyundai cars look very similar to Mercedes!)
do you see people confusing sony "move" as nintendo wii? (sony "move" very similar to Wii)
And people wonder why soo Many people hate Apple. Ok lets make a triangular phone so we don't get sued or maybe a octagon?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
To be fair, Apple did copyright designs. So you may not like Apple, but if this were any other company people probably wouldn't care.
this just sounds real greedy of apple
Really?
ok so maybe samsung will have to pay up to everybody who ever made a cell phone, now. seriously. its a money thing.
So probably Samsung sales are going to stop in the US, because of USA-smartass patents. Software patents, seriously?
Though I don't really care.
This is just disgusting, plain and simple............i hate that company to its core (yay pun!)
Apple throwing power around, what a surprise.
Still rocking the Incredible with the XDA Premium App.
So what it's not like Apple is capable of making anything on their own. They're at the mercy of Samsung, LG, ect to make their junk for them. 5 years from now Apple will be a broken company like they were in the 90's.
I know =/ its just frustrating that they're allowed to do this kind of crap, i know corporate law and suing one another go hand in hand, but i mean come on linux and various other company's hold many patents over apple, which they pay to use (and some which they even tried to sue other companies over, even though they didnt even invent the item for which they were suing), but regardless its just stupid that they throw their power around so easily and aren't met with much resistance........sad days
Exador said:
So what it's not like Apple is capable of making anything on their own. They're at the mercy of Samsung, LG, ect to make their junk for them. 5 years from now Apple will be a broken company like they were in the 90's.
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What's saving them is Steve Jobs. He's one of the last people who really knows how to advertise a product, and "make people believe that they need and can't live without his product".
Most of the other companies employ young and inexperienced people, that's why their sales fail.
When Jobs leave Apple, it'll be just like any other company, coming towards customers instead of making customers come towards them.
That's the idea that Jobs found out in 70s, 80s... there's a movie about Jobs, Gates, Wozniak, and Ballmer, I can't remember its name, which clearly shows their success.
O
Blagus said:
What's saving them is Steve Jobs. He's one of the last people who really knows how to advertise a product, and "make people believe that they need and can't live without his product".
Most of the other companies employ young and inexperienced people, that's why their sales fail.
When Jobs leave Apple, it'll be just like any other company, coming towards customers instead of making customers come towards them.
That's the idea that Jobs found out in 70s, 80s... there's a movie about Jobs, Gates, Wozniak, and Ballmer, I can't remember its name, which clearly shows their success.
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"The Pirates of Silicon Valley" right?
Sent from my Captivate. Andromeda 3, Onix 2.0.5 @ 1.2Ghz
First of all, this is strictly an observation and will likely be locked and/or deleted by a mod (my money is on orb3000) but I have been a member of the XDA community since it first came to light, originally as a lurker and, after picking up my old ppc6800, a member. I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Now, since the g1 came out (and even before that in some winmo crowds) iPhone users have been referred to as sheep. The implication is that they blindly follow Steve Jobs and instantly accept whatever he says as a law that cannot be challenged. It also implies simple-mindedness.
As of late, I have witnessed more of this behavior coming from android fans than iOS or any other OS (and before it's implied it physically pains me to say anything positive about that jumbled mess of an OS). If you look in any android related thread that exceeds three pages, namely the "google vs...." threads then you'll witness, first of all a number of unnecessary posts. A good portion of android fans come in simply to state something along the lines of "yay google" or, "android all da way." The levels of literacy, or lack thereof, paired with the simple-minded approach of their posts is pretty much the very definition of a "sheep." Second, and in my opinion even worse, are the people who enter these threads, are fully aware of what is going on, and still treat the situation as though google is in the right and they don't deserve to get sued just because everything they are as a company is stolen. The most common argument in this type of post is that the patents are bull****. They are for trivial things that we do passively. The fact of the matter though is that this was not always the case. Case in point, I just had a discussion with someone who said that the way that we update our address book is not a valid patent. Now, in modern times updating our address books on our phone or computer is something we do in passing. However at some point the ability to do so was unheard of until someone came up with it and filed a patent. Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine? The blind following is the other side of this "sheepish" behavior.
Though I'm absolutely certain it will, this was not intended to start any wars. It's more or less a cautionary measure. Don't turn into that which you so desperately hate.
Agree. My first 'smartphone' was a temporary g1 while my Nokia(can't remember the model no. but a small metal one...) was being repaired. It WAS a revelation, but behind the then current iPhone in many ways. I subsequently went for an X10, and now an Xperia Arc despite the initial poor support from SE. I still prefer the android OS for several reasons, but ultimately the iPhone is very good at what it does. There will always be a huge argument over the open/closed OS and who are the sheep, I was pretty anti-Apple years ago but in retrospect it was just pettiness.
sinkster©
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Most of the "Android ftw" or "Android is much better" posts are from people desperately trying to reach 10 posts so they can ask some question in the devs sections which has probably been asked before.
Just look at the Steve Job's or battery related threads in OT, they're full of it.
This is an interesting topic. I believe that you will find smart people and trolls in all OS camps. My belief as to why so much Android now is its success. The larger and more prominent an OS is the more backers it will have and with this comes the fools. The sheer volume of Android posts vs windows phone posts here suggests that there are more posters and thus more trolls. That being said Android 4 lyfe.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
patents
z33dev33l said:
Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine?
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Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
phones
z33dev33l said:
I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
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same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
AllGamer said:
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
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I am awaiting the Galaxy Note and Galaxy Skin (I heard of the Skin from a local newspaper)
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment than in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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So true, so true
z33dev33l said:
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
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Even if I don't agree with your original point entirely I really agree with this right here.
I still refer to apple users as "iSheep" sometimes.
You just have to understand that when I say that, I am not saying that A. All apple users are sheep. B. there aren't users of microsoft or google who are sheep.
All brands have blind loyalist, all systems have flaws.
The problem I have with "iSheep" is that they don't research, think or care about what else is out there. They also accept products built to be restrictive towards them.
Sure android devices do have restrictions and flaws and fixing that voids the warranty, but at least the ground up design is based on allowing the user to do what they want.
Android is just as guilty of Apple of having followers with blind loyalty, I don't deny that nor do I ever try to.
I will also say that part of my critiquing of apple comes from the fact that apple markets directly to the users ego. They sell "cool" they don't sell devices. It is marketing gold, but as a person studying software engineering.. I absolutely abhor the way they don't market devices.. They market a reason to have arrogance and superiority complexes.
I am not saying users of other products are innocent, but nothing burns me up more than to have someone start being judgmental of my purchases because they were blessed by the all knowing god Jobs in the Apple store.
Ok, time for me to rip on android users for just a second.
Guys, I love android.. Can we get past the inferiority complex now? We have a lot of great options.. I don't care how the latest i-whatever compares.
I really don't care to see the i-whatever compared to every android product out there either. Quit treating it like an on going competition.
I mean really.. if we quit comparing devices at every single turn, we will all be that much happier.
I like to keep track of what is out and what is up and new.. But, seriously.. why even talk about i-whatever at all? they release a phone once a year.. Why compare brand new phones to ones that are in the electronics world almost legacy hardware.
this post should be moved to the question and answer forum, LOLOL
i concur iSheep vs. aSheep vs. mSheep (or wSheep?)
it's true, people should just focus on the fun thing about the latest and gadget being released.
after all that's why most of us are in here.
let the companies fight each other until there's no left
but until then as consumers lets just rip the benefits, and hack the crap out of the gadgets that we like the most.
Hey everyone I'm new to the forum. I was just reading this, and found it interesting haha. So what exactly is meant by the term "sheep"?
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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Click to collapse
It certainly was, though of the two posts I don't feel that mine was the only one with such intent.
AllGamer said:
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
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that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
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Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
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Should companies really be allowed to have vague and potentially ambiguous patents?
I would love to patent square box like objects then sue -
phone makers
tv makers
picture frame makers
every computer manufacturer
usb drive manufacterers.
Ect, ect, ect
I do wish people would quit worrying about what apple is doing..
On the other hand, to deny that Apple is a gigantic troll in a lot of ways is out right denial.
---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
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Another issue that I have, is patents hamper innovation.
What is the point of developing something new based on existing technology, if your only going to get sued for it anyway even if you are doing it totally different?
Now days being "inspired" by someone else is grounds for a law suit..
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
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Click to collapse
however, if you become noticed, become the biggest toothbrush manufacturer in the world, you can bet that whoever holds the patent will be down your throat as they should be.
according to Apple... it's no longer about patents
check out the latest court case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...duce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html
Apple also raised concerns that every Galaxy Tab sold would cost it future app sales as the users would become "Android people". Apple's iTunes App Store dominance would be challenged if customers were "seduced" or "sapped away by the Galaxy Tab and its infringements".
"They'll then be Android people and the investment in the apps that they make to purchase on their Galaxy Tab will be something they can't use on an Apple product," Apple's lawyer said.
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Samsung's lawyers have criticised the fact that Apple did not seek injunctions against previous Samsung products that would by their logic also infringe its patents. Apple's response to this was that, because Samsung is a significant supplier to Apple, it "engaged in negotiations in the first instance".
"We're not the first Android on the market and other people are getting in fast. It's critical that we're a first mover not dribble in behind everybody else. It's blossoming at the moment," Samsung's lawyer said.
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Apple real target is not really Samsung violating their patents, it's about afraid of losing market to Android, and afraid of people choosing Android over iOS, and people spending their money in Android Market than Apps Store
When Android first started with HTC and Motorola, they were not as advanced enough as the hardware spec offered by Samsung
which easily attracted a lot of people, myself included, i purchased it for the hardware.
so, clearly Apple only wants to slow Samsung down, just so people have less choices to be switched over to Android
Apple is preventing people from Choosing what they want to use, by their logic eliminating Samsung will drastically reduce the will to choose another better device and less chance of people liking another OS
so practically the same can be applied for the good phones being released by Samsung for Windows
Well, sadly, in another thread regarding the shipment delays I made the poor mistake of defending Apple and claiming the shipments being held by the ITC was likely a routine screening and not being held up because of Apple.
Turns out, I was wrong. Apple has filed a formal grievance with the US ITC today saying that HTC hasn't actually resolved the software issues and should meet as an emergency and re-enact the ban blocking imports of HTC phones.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=10560
This is just more over-aggressive bull**** lawsuits for no reason. HTC is in no position to even directly compete against Apple in the market, and ultimately is doing some of the most unique software and hardware design in the industry.
At what point does this whole mobile lawsuit nonsense come to a boiling point?
Also, as a point of full disclosure, and because I don't really want to ***** about Apple being the worst company on earth, I do own use and love my iPad, Macbook Air, and iMac. I do own an iPhone 4S but as of recently it sits off in a drawer while I use my HOX.
This thread was not started with the intention of people piling in to say how Apple is terrible, or builds ****ty products, but rather have a conversation about the challenges of the mobile industry moving forward. As each company tries to innovate and release compelling products the likelihood of overlapping features and functionality is inevitable. How does the industry encourage innovate without trampling intellectual property rights? (or in other words, **** Software Patents)
Apple is just pissed the one x is better than the iPhone
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
This is so ridiculous...
What gets me is how many of these patent disputes are actually FRAND (fair use) issues.
I'm waiting for some judge to put down his iPhone and see things clearly. Patent law is out of control and companies are only using it to maintain a monopoly or remain profitable to their stockholders when their product is actually no longer inovative and has lost market share (see also TiVo)
Apple sees a threat in Android a threat that will screw the company I hate apple but now its the devil to me .
Sent from my GT-P7500 using XDA Premium HD app
But this is bs! Why would they do that, apple needs competition, its basic business 101. Does apple think since I can't get a htc one phone imma get me some ios?? Hell no and im sure like me, that's just gonna piss others off and make it a point NOT to buy any apple products.
Maybe a boycott of apple is in order.
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
.
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They should start focusing on a new iOS or putting something extraordinary in the iPhone 5 instead of law suites. Hop off android. Power users choose android and the rest use iOS their lawsuits won't convert anybody. They're always suing somebody haha. Samsung, HTC, might as well sue Google and the rest of the world.
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This has little to do with rightfully protecting intellectual property, and everything to do with patent trolling and using the law to attack competitors.
Android has gobbled up market share due to the fact that manufacturer are willing to give people variety and choices. Meanwhile, Apple is trying to lock everyone into one device form factor.
This also more represents Apple's failure to innovate, rather than the opposite. The iPhone has hardly changed its looks after 5 iterations. Aside from different backing material, it has looked almost exactly the same. And few internal hardware innovations as well. Aside from moving to a better screen, and a better camera, the hardware has only had incremental improvements (CPU and memory) over its entire lifespan.
The one form factor business model has benefited them in many ways, but we've come to a point where people now want bigger screens on their smartphones. Apple has simply run out of new ideas in the present form factor. Their biggest recent innovation. . . Siri (chuckle). They are stuck and they know it. If they move to a larger iPhone (and also a smaller iPad, or "iPad Mini" as its rumored) they begin to experience some of the OS fragmentation that they have criticized Android for so many times in the past.
I don't mean to complain about Apple so much, or sound like a hater. They make some nice devices, and have contributed some nice interface design to the smartphone world (earlier in the iPhones history). But its clear that they have stopped innovating. Instead of coming up with new ideas, they have chosen to use petty methods of attacking their competitors.
freakboy13 said:
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
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It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.
I really tend to agree. While no one can argue that iOS and the iPhone were amazing innovations, and helped spur the mobile industry as it stands now, iOS has really stagnated on innovate.
There haven't been amazing new features / innovations to the platform in awhile and it seems Apple cares more about others not doing what they have done in the past then focus on what they can do in the future.
I think everyday there are more examples of software design that should be open and licensed rather than closed IP. Things like "pull to refresh" and "pinch to zoom" are functionalities that exist in natural user interface and simple should be able to freely licensed to all software developers.
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
I just feel like software patents are going to be increasingly difficult to develop and protect and that these major players in the market need to understand there will be functionality overlaps. As such I want to see this bull**** end and cross-licensing begin.
fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
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That is rational. Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP. They have so much cash that they don't know what to do with it and there is no sign of their revenue stream stopping any time soon, so they don't need the money. This is just a pissing match at this point. Apple's intention is total "Thermo-Nuclear-War" annihilation of Android. Things might start to get a bit different now that Steve Jobs is not around...but perhaps it is too soon. Not that I agree with Apple.
I just think patent reform is needed. Competition is good though. In some ways I think Apple has helped HTC. Now HTC has notoriety. Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband. This HTC One X is now notorious. So even though sales were stopped because of customs I think more people now know what HTC is and that it represents a credible threat to Apple. People will want what they are told that they can't have....human nature.
This is why i got away from apple products not going to support their lawsuits... im tired of hearing this stuff but of course its not going to stop...
Instead of innovating they use wide spread patents to squash competition.
It's not just a problem in the phone industry, patents are way too wide sweeping, long lasting, and powerful these days. Try and remember patent law was created to promote innovation not crush it.
galfert said:
Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband.
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I have experienced this too and with my old Samsung Captivate as well. When people see an Android phone they are wowed by it and by the ability to make it what YOU want. When they see an iPhone, it's just another iPhone, there's nothing special anymore, nothing "magical." I used to get excited over iPhone announcements back in the days where I was a poor high school student yearning to have a smartphone. Now, howveer, I find the annoucements boring because really, there's nothing to be excited about anymore.
Apple where we invented the lawsuit
Sent from the Darkside of the Force
fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
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galfert said:
Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP.
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Well, it looks like that's exactly what happened, and HTC refused to license.
"Apple reportedly asked for $5 - $15 per device to settle Android patent dispute" (I'm not 'allowed' to post my source link, but if you google that headline, you should find it on the Dow Jones website. Article is dated May 5th, 2012.)
So HTC just went on their merry way and knowingly infringed on the patent. If they didn't see this coming, then they're idiots.
That said, I LOVE this damn phone! I see why Apple might have a little envy smeared on their faces!
Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?
kilo89 said:
Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?
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Money plain and simple friggin monopoly
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
galfert said:
It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.
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Thanks for clearing up my ignorance, that's totally what I meant to say, (reference to the book by G.O.), and the point I was trying to make, lol.
I don't totally hate on apple my MacBook pro still best computer I have, and its almost 4yo, and still kicks ass media wise. But this lawsuit thing is just out of control.
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Boycott Crapple and encourage others to do the same. Enough already.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA
Hey guys i was just catching up on some news when i come across this article
'If you think Apple competes with Android, you’re wrong' from ZDnet. Here is a little snippet of it
Apple has never done things like other tech companies. Never. They’ve never fallen prey to analyst opinion or competitor bling. Why should they? They’re the innovators, not the imitators. Apple produces the products like they want them to be–not like Android-designers think they should be. Apple builds them and we buy them by the millions. People camp outside of Apple stores and Apple product retailers to ensure that they get a new Apple device. You don’t really see that with Android products.
The reason is that Apple products have what we want and what we don’t even know that we want until we see it. That’s why Apple is the most successful tech company ever.
after reading the entire article i was not too sure about the guys claims.
but if you could read the article and voice me your opinion on it that would be great
here is the link http://www.zdnet.com/blog/consumerization/if-you-think-apple-competes-with-android-youre-wrong/507
philster16 said:
That’s why Apple is the most successful tech company ever.[/I]
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I've always hated that this is seen as "common knowledge". Most profitable? Maybe, but I refuse to see Apple as the most successful company when they are only able to maintain a stable of a few specialized devices without a dominant market share in any field (maybe they dominate the tablet space but there is barely any legitimate competition in that area). I mean look at Motorola or Samsung or any other company that literally has it's hands in EVERYTHING tech. They might not dominate any single area, but they ensure no matter what happens they turn a profit in any way possible.
Having read the entire article it sounds as if the writer is a major ios fan and very biased. The articles only actual fact seems to be that people cue for apple products and that's proof they're great.
If apple don't compete with android why take android os features and put them in ios, why sue the most popular android device manufacturers but only those whose profucts challenge apples?
Apple don't innovate much at all anymore and definitely take note of their rivals.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I really hate it when Apple's fan girls start reviewing the company and buying their products. The reviewers only say these Apple SO friendly terms, like "It really is resolutionary!" They say that so they will be quoted by Apple.
As for their Fan Girls (a.k.a "Customers"), I find it annoying when you ask, the people that buy only Apple products for their Computers, phones, and tablets, why they bought the iMac over a PC and they say, "Because it was made by Apple so it is obviously better." I mean really? Why!?
ZDnet and Cnet are pretty Apple fanboi heavy, so this isn't surprising at all. The main difference I find between situations with Apple and Android fanbois is that Android enthusiasts tell the fanbois to shut their yappers; very few people who enjoy Apple for what it is tend to shout down the idiots.
There was another article on there not long ago by either that guy or another of their "experts" touting all the reasons that Android just didn't satisfy him, with the main points of contention resulting from him going to Best Buy and saying that Android was somehow at fault for the results of consulting with an unknowledgeable sales member. In short, it is not a site that I trust for anything in the way of editorials.
From the article: "I doubt anyone at Apple says to a coworker, “Hey, dude, did you see my <insert Android-based phone name here>, it has this. We should totally put one of those on the next iPhone.”"
Guess he is unaware of all that iOS 5 and now 6 have blatantly stolen directly from Android and WP. The guy is so clueless it's ridiculous.
Edit: his opening statement shows his lack of grasp on reality. Dinosaurs will die, and to say that a company like Apple doesn't need to worry about competition when Android has the larger market share and it is only increasing is pure idiocy. If guys like that ever sit on the board of any company it is only a matter of time before it inevitably falls apart. It's that kind of thinking that almost destroyed Apple to begin with.
Maybe he's right though and Apple does operate in a vacuum; vacuums are indeed defined by sucking the life out of everything around them.
There is a big difference between true product innovation and marketing hype.
Apple has not innovated as much as that article suggests over the years, they have only utilized smart marketing and community hype to sell their products with very little innovation in their product lines over this time.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
Apple innovation = imitation + litigation + hype.
Just look at the iPad. The only thing about the iPad that is up to par it better than the competitors is the display. And that is the only thing that their advertising blitz talks about. They do not come close anywhere else.
If you put lipstick on a pig tho iFanBoys will line up to buy it.
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philster16 said:
The reason is that Apple products have what we want and what we don’t even know that we want until we see it.
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This line makes me laugh. A smartphone user should know exactly what he wants in his product and if he gets more, then it's even better. But according to this line, it makes the writer seem like he wants what Apple wants him to want.
According to the article, Apple has never ever ever taken any ideas from outside. Why should they because they're innovators?
Really??! The writer seems to be unaware of any other technology in the world! Apple didn't invent the mp3 player. Granted, they made a lot of improvements and produced the best selling mp3 player but a majority of the ideas came from other products.
"To worry about the competition is a faux pas"? Then why are they trying to get the Galaxy SIII banned from entering the US. In reality, to not worry about the competition would be the stupidest move any company can take and of course Apple is worried about the competition.
My personal opinion regarding the huge success of Apple is the large user base who keep repeatedly buying Apple products without considering other (Better and cheaper) options, to blindly follow Apple into whatever they do. The writer's clearly reflects this. Another reason is that Apple products are simpler to use and by being so, not easy to customize. This is a big disadvantage for a lot of people, especially gadget freaks. Citing a personal example, I have an iPod 5G and I hated the fact that you could not even change the color theme whereas even cheap mp3 players had that function. I finally ended up putting a custom firmware (Rockbox) on it and was much happier. It even freed me from using iTunes and allowed me to use drag and drop.
My conclusion. The writer is severely misinformed.
Now it's only my thoughts on the issue.
There is always a competition between companies of the same market. I believe there are kinda regulations of that rivacy, I mean there are rules for companies to implement innovations, etc. Fruct corporation had to survive among all those giants of tech world and even go further. But how can they do it? So, they've started breaking those secret rules (here comes their everyday trials and actions from other companies) and moved forward far as they could. As you can see, Samsung, and other giants were ready to lanch their super smartphones and tablets, they did it soon, very soon after after Apple released their ones. So there are many variants on how it works. Some of them:
- Apple breaks rivacy rules
- Other companies just allow Apple do it (as they know, they see what can Apple do and do it the rest. They enter the market, that Apple was not able to win)
- Companies allow apple release their best products and analyse why people don't love fruct features and they give it to those who disappointed with Apple devices.
And many other variats are possible.
But the do! They compete with each other! As they have one marketplace
We never know what they do behind the curtain!!! we just try to be logic and use analytics
I know we all hate on apple, mostly for them being a **** company, but seriously, their stuff is ****.
Okay, it's snappy, and okay, it's nice looking.
But I had to work on a mac for a while, and I can say that without a doubt my PC (that was half that price) is vastly superior. Everything on mac works awful, including their retard son, Safari. Same goes for ipads, iphones, ipods. I just can't understand why someone would overpay for something that is worse.
As for why I had to work on a mac computer - they don't allow ios developers to make apps on anything else. **** company.
apple wins the battle apparently because they are the first to enter the market. Usually the first person enter a certain field wins.
However after a long period of time, many competitors come out with their so called immitation devices, however if apple does not innovate more thing in a field thats others never enter, they will eventually lose to those immitators. Because those immitators shaped by the market.
That guy probably is an iOS fanboy. Apple never imitates..????? LMAO.
It copied the drag down notification bar from Android...and many more..!
Android devices makes a better option because their price is little less than iPhones, iPads etc and performance is far more higher and we can customise the interface, install custom roms etc...!
Most People (not everyone) buy apple devices so that they can show off to others that they can afford such devices.
Sent from my GT-i9100 equipped with Grenade Launcher and Remote Explosives
Just another Crapple Fanboy voicing out loud for the world to hear how ill informed he is. If Crapple spent as much time " innovating " as they do suing other companies, they might produce half way decent affordable products.
I laughed really hard when I read the word 'Innovation'.
DD-Ripper and prboy1969, I plus +1 both of you.
I think the only reason Crapple has been this successful because they use Unix and think about that, Both Linux and Mac OS (yuch) use Unix as there core language. Hands down though, Linux is far more better because of the fact that it's open sourced. Linux will never die if people are still willing to code it.
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I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
alexanderd said:
I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
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+1 :highfive:
alexanderd said:
I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
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To be fair to Apple making an idiot friendly slim tablet was what made tablets so popular, if it wasn't for them its doubtful we would have the competing android tabs that more tech minded people may prefer and when it debuted it was the best tablet so it did deserve some of the hype.
Apple took a good idea, ironed out the kinks and produced what became the benchmark for modern tablets. It wasn't the first ever tablet but it was the easiest and most user friendly and at the time was innovative.
Now Apple rarely innovate and yet people flock to buy their products but the original ipad was actually innovative and worth some of the hype.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alexanderd said:
idiot friendly
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Right here. This is the type of products apple makes. Like every other person in this thread knows, apple fans dont know why apple products are "better" they just are. Thats because the products are made for these idiots. Why is this better? Uhmmm......cuz i put an S on the end of it. My friend had an encounter with someone who would go far in apple. He had a droid X and wanted a faster phone, so he asked if he wrote X2 on the back it would be faster.
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OMG... That guy is really outrageus.... I added my comment too there into all those -ves which is quoted below... He even reviewed an adroid phone lol.. i have no patience to read it... i have sent same comment to his email n g+ profile... what he is doing there in goole plus rather than camping outside cupertino my god...
'lol.... i feel funny about 'apple operates in a vaccum'. If you can list out their innovations i can feed it into my ever lowering knowledge about apple n their products.. Hope u dont list inventing mobile phone into it.. Reading ur article n the payment u got u may be tempted to do it haha OMG... If apple is not going to balloon their 'small' device near close to current smartphone levels , surely they will be pumped out of scene like nokia gone down...Then by mere lawsuits against CR infringements wont be sufficient to stay in the competition. Didnt they invent their new technology yet to make screen big?
Common man , I would have been really happy if u tried looking at ur own backhole to see how big/small it is, instead of this ********. I'm very sure right now my middle finger on right hand is pointing upwards in front of ur face. This article makes more apple haters which goes against the intention behind it. May be by reading all those above -ve comments apple may take down ur next payment ... hahaha'
http://allthingsd.com/20120731/sams...undercut-apples-design-claims/#slideshow-1-12
Given that Apple are arguing Samsung copied their iphone design, surely the fact that the judge refused to allow these iphone like designs (but that predate the iphone) as evidence is a sign of bias?
By not allowing the evidence to prove they were independently arriving at a similar design to Apple, Judge Koh has made Samsungs defence completely pointless because they now can't prove their point, yet conversely Apple are allowed to say that the same phone designs copy the iphone - even though they predate it, because the jury can never see the evidence to the contrary.
Surely this is a case of a judge sabotaging a case on purpose?
Dave
A US judge favouring a US company over a foreign one at the expense of justice?
Shirley no such thing could happen.... Oh wait
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
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MissionImprobable said:
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
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I agree, if the point of the trial is to show samsung didn't copy apple, and the evidence that proves it is excluded by the judge, that makes the case pretty unwinnable for samsung.
Not sure what Koh used as an excuse but even I'm wondering if she is biased now and I've been trying to keep an open mind about her rulings.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
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DomingoZuniga said:
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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But they bring the us economy, which is trillions of dollars in debt, a lot of much needed money so it makes sense they may have a vested interest in helping that revenue continue.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
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No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
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MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
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+1 What he said!
I think the Judge's decision on this created a valid reason for an appeal.
Apple is just trying to get rid of competition legally because they realize they can't beat them in the actual phone wars. To me every lawsuit shows how much they are scrambling to try and stay in the running. Which is more pathetic every time and I will never buy one for the pure fact of these childish and desperate actions.
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alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
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Don't take this the wrong way but what have the sony designs to do with this? I was specifically referring to the 2006 Samsung designs that are shown in the linked to article and not apples sony ones.
I can see your point regarding apples sony designs but we are on about pre iphone designs from samsung.
As you say samsung has burden of proof so by not allowing them to show that they had an iphone like design a year before the iphone was made public Judge Koh is dismissing their best evidence unfairly.
Please remember that this is not about the sony designs you seem to think it is but actual samsung designs. I think you assumed it was about sony ones which suggests you didn't read any of the article.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
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Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
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Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
OptimusLove said:
Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
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That's right, pretty annoying. The "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridiculous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
xdaid said:
Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
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So in all the time you've been here on XDA: you never saw any thread that mentions Apple degrade into a pissing match. Consider yourself lucky then.
That's right, pretty annoying. But the "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridicolous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
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I think we both know the answer to this already. Total reform of the patent system. Don't hate the player, hate the game and Apple's playing the game brilliantly. I've been saying this since 2002. Maybe with on-going revolutionaries in social-networking as well as continued popularization of media access through mobile devices will people finally get off their nut and make our government do something. Maybe enough of us will get together to start our own Pirate Party.
---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 AM ----------
MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
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I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
xdaid said:
btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002
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Not quite, first tablet pc concept was described in sixties and called the dynabook but not made, just described in detail even referring to use of a stylus and multitouch.
Apples newton tablet came out almost ten years before microsofts so ms were not first, although microsofts was the first tablet as we know them today.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
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It helps Samsung and every other manufacturer because it will show that the U.S. courts have sense when dealing with what is and isn't a valid, patentable idea. These patents are the means by which Apple has gotten each and every one of its injunctions and it will certainly seek more injunctions with its new patents.
Yes, it is judges and only judges who decide the validity or lack there of when it comes to patents. The patent office passes almost anything that comes across its purview. It is then up to companies to raise the issue when they believe their patent has been violated and up to the courts to decide which side has the right of things in the situation.
Apple have asked the judge to automatically rule in its favour based on what it says is misconduct on Samsungs part by their leaking excluded evidence.
Call me skeptical but would it surprise anyone if the judge agrees?
Could give a valid excuse to the judge to make a favourable decision.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I would be surprised. There's far too much precedence being set here that allowing the judge to supersede the jury would be....weird. I wouldn't be too worried about an automatic ruling because John Quinn is on the case. I would think it'd be in Apple's favor to draw out this case and let all the evidence and trump cards come out, so that if the ruling is made in their favor: Samsung would have a difficult time appealing the decision. Unless of course: Apple isn't as confident as it seems.