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You know what bugs me already for years is the following...
Mobile phones, which I paid a lot for, come with poor vendor roms, which are locked. They are mostly rich in bugs and therefore poor in bugfixes, support and updates.
xda-developers mod roms, cyanogenmod, android root and so on are such great projects...
The problem with those is, that
- warranty gets lost
- not available for all phones (there are for example no mod roms for Motorola Flipout, because the bootloader has been successfully protected my Motorola and no one could hack it yet)
- the developers have to waste time with working around the protections to mod the device
It is ridiculous, you paid the full price for the phone, but never get the right to fully use it's potential.
Let's compare it with buying a normal laptop. It's also a piece of hardware and mostly there is Windows preinstalled with a loads of bloated unwanted software. This might be ok for a lot of people. And the rest? They are free to install ANY operating system they wish.
On normal laptops there are not risks when messing around with new operating systems. Of course you need some knowledge and you may lose your data, if you do not know what you are doing. But since all my messing with operating systems for PC, I never damaged the hardware, simply it is designed in a way, not to be damaged by software, it's robust.
Mobile phone vendors claim, they lock us out, because we could potentially harm the hardware. Isn't it their task, just to develop robust hardware and allow us to install any software we want?
This petition would aim for:
- open bootloader by default
- root by default
- warranty for the hardware, no matter which software you used
- free to install custom roms
- robust hardware
I'd like to start a petition and perhaps some public awareness for this issue.
So, if you want to help with anything.... Like writing a petition, a more handy text then this, for example, would be needed.
Discuss.
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with. There is already a problem with self entitled gits who dont read properly, or make an effort to understand what they are doing who download a WP7 rom, try to put it on a sensation, and expect someone to come running with a new phone. I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
hungry81 said:
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with. There is already a problem with self entitled gits who dont read properly, or make an effort to understand what they are doing who download a WP7 rom, try to put it on a sensation, and expect someone to come running with a new phone. I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this.
One of the major issues with phone ROMs is that you do have the potential to completely brick your phone if you don't know what you're doing. Unrelated hardware failures (i.e. USB port loses power while flashing a new bootloader) may hard brick your phone to a state of complete uselessness.
Having super user access and root on a phone is another issue that the vast majority of end users do not want to have to deal with. UAC is enabled by default on Windows Vista and 7 because it provides robust protection for people who DO NOT know what they are doing. For day to day usage of a computer, users do not need an account with any special access privilege. Even if you do know what you're doing, its still SAFER to be on a non-admin account for day to day computer use.
hungry81 said:
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are also computers which come without any software, just hardware. If anything goes wrong, like defect harddrive, then it will be replaced, because of warranty.
Mobile phones are very similar to computers nowadays. But there are no decent mobile phones without operating systems available. This is also what I vote vor.
hungry81 said:
I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, messing with software -> no more software suppprt -> but hardware warranty still ok.
Kagadar said:
One of the major issues with phone ROMs is that you do have the potential to completely brick your phone if you don't know what you're doing. Unrelated hardware failures (i.e. USB port loses power while flashing a new bootloader) may hard brick your phone to a state of complete uselessness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that this problem does exist right now...
But only because the hardware is not robust.
As far I know, (a while ago I informed myself about a few devices) it is not possible to brick Nokia S60 v3 devices. This is because the routine to flash the device is read only and can not be changed. No matter if you lose power during flashing or usb cable loss... You can always flash again. There is NO way to brick the device while flashing.
Apart from the flash routine which is hardly built into the phone, the rest of the phones software can be updated.
That demonstrates that there are no technical limitations to deploy robust hardware.
Kagadar said:
Having super user access and root on a phone is another issue that the vast majority of end users do not want to have to deal with. UAC is enabled by default on Windows Vista and 7 because it provides robust protection for people who DO NOT know what they are doing. For day to day usage of a computer, users do not need an account with any special access privilege. Even if you do know what you're doing, its still SAFER to be on a non-admin account for day to day computer use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree that it is saves not to use admin account for everyday use and that it's also a good idea not to have it enabled by default.
On computers you still have the option to legally use your root account. At the other hand with mobile phones this is completely unwanted and you need some kind of hack to do it. This is the difference. And this is what I complain about.
Yeah
I think just like apps there are some absolutely amazing ROMs that run better than the vendor ROMs. I think they should allow those changes to occur whether through a "vendor verified" developer or some kind of authorized ROM download channel through the manufacturer so you can get the style and type you want the most which typically runs much smoother without voiding the warranty. Great idea!
Lmao. Hell no. Carriers and manufacturers will try to start sellings roms like theyre crack. Ringtones anybody? Cmon. Only $3.
Anyways. I think the op doesnt know what hes asking for. What you want is a blank phone and you want the manufacturer to cover hardware no matter what is done with phone. Fair enough. I guess you want them to cover the phone if you burn through all your write cycles in the flash memory used because you have to flash anything you can your digital hands on. You do realize this will cause the price of parts to go up in the long run? And prices upfront will be more because they will calculate losses due to all the warranty claims. Should i keep wondering why insurance prices keep going up? Phones are built much, much different from computers. Pc's are generally modular and a single piece if defective is claimed to oem of that part. Not necessarily hp or dell. Phones usually only have one or two boards in them with all your components. So if you somehow manage to fry your wifi because you thought could improve reception or your bandwidth or whatever with something custom and it doesnt work, that whole board, system or maybe even phone depending on how its built now needs to be replaced.
I dont want to say it, but itis fair for them to not cover your phone if you went above and beyond. True, because we have become digital crackheads we usually become beta testers for their hw/sw but we also have the power of the coin too. You cant fault them if you wanted to improve their bugs/sw. You cant go banging on your drug dealers door either when he sells you some bunk cocaine and you go mix it with drano, just hoping for something and it backfires on you.
I voided my warranty.
Some interesting opinions. If this was made legal there would likely be restrictions placed on what can be changed, and it would likely end up regulated in some way.
The result would be third-party 'illegal' roms and commercially available 'legal' ones.
People like us would likely still be flashing illegal roms with modified clock-speeds etc ; )
Just received my repaired MT4GS about an hour again, and I am just spitting nails about the absolute failure to communicate by the HTC Repair techs. Yes, this is a rant and a vent. You can move on to other posts if you don't want to read my growling and hissing.
I thought that the techs would make their diagnosis on the actual hardware malfunction of my phone (in a nutshell, I had weird condensation that occurred out of the blue, no exposure to moisture on my part, and then the display failed after four days of flickering), but no, their conclusion was that I had "the wrong software" on my phone. And for this they charged $185 for a new mainboard.
Yes, the phone was rooted/s-off with the most recent CWM, but once the display went bye-bye, I couldn't do much about it. And the state of the software did not cause the display failure! To top this off, when I asked--twice!--through the online e-mail form for a clarification of how they came to this conclusion, I never received an e-mail reply. I paid for the repair because I need my phone, and find out today that the morons called the cell number and left a message! Not my home phone, not via e-mail--the effin' cell number! For the phone they had in their hands! So an hour ago, I listened to this message, which I could barely hear with the volume maxed, and just about threw my phone across the room when the tech got to the "wrong software" part.
The new mainboard gives the phone a new serial number and new IMEI number, so it's like a new phone, but the trackpad button is weirdly angled up and the power button is a little floppy. And to add insult to injury, hboot is now 1.44.0013 and the software at version 1.55.531.3, so I have to figure out how to root with the stupid update, so I can get CWM back and restore from my last Nandroid backup.
So...pissed...off. Stupid, stupid HTC techs! Wrong software my a$$.
Okay. Rant finished. I'm off to find the rooting method for 1.55.531.3.
Siiiighhhhh --
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KingCheetah
Man, that sucks however it is commonly know that rooting voids your warranty If they find out. It still sucks though.
Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using XDA App
Major suckage...yep
My understanding was that gaining root/s-off only voided the warranty if the damage was directly caused by the unlocked state--e.g. if I had loaded a ROM that overclocked the CPU and caused damage to the chip. This wasn't the case, I was still running stock ROM, and the display failure occurred over a period of five days in a very strange fashion. I guess it was hoping too much of these individuals to exercise some Sherlockian deduction and verify the details I included in the letter shipped with my phone.
At any rate, my growliest complaint by far is the failure of the tech(s) to communicate with me regarding the quotation for repair. I can't help but feel that a discussion may have changed that tech's mind. At the very least, it would have allowed me to make my case instead of the tech coming to, what I view as, a rather knee-jerk diagnosis.
Thanks for commiserating with me --
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KingCheetah
That sucks so bad. Now I will definitely be sure to unroot, and put the stock rom back on and s-on if I need to send it in for warranty repair. Ugg. I had heard of lots of people sending their phones in while rooted, with no problem, Thanks for warning the rest of us that it isn't always the case.
Aside from unnecessarily changing your phone's mainboard, what did they do to get the touchscreen working? Sounds like it was an easy fix to me but had to find a way to justify the $185
sent from a Nokia 3210
I have no clue how replacing the mainboard addressed the display failure, since there was an utter lack of communication from the HTC techs (as per my initial growlings). I did explain in the letter shipped w/ my phone that it was operating normally right up until the screen died; and even then appeared to boot okay, even if the response wasn't visible.
Suffice to say the repair was successful, but I doubt I'll even get an answer to the logic (or illogic) behind the techs' repair diagnosis.
Still having poofy fur over this a bit --
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KingCheetah
Hello ALl,
I am not a developer and do very little tinkering with my android phones. That being said, I recently shattered my Nexus 5's sreen and sent it into LG to get repaired. They sent it back as "not repairable: Epoxy Crack." I turned it on as it was still fully functional (minus the screen) when I sent it off. The phone booted up with a letterboxed version of the Nexus 4 boot screen and after going through an initial set up, I went to settings to find that the phone now says:
Android version - KeyLimePie
Baseband version - M8974A-1.0.25.0.15
Kernel version - 3.4.0-gaf7416a-00002-g97abe44 / [email protected] #1 / Thu Apr17 10:56:17 KST 2014
Build number - aosp_hammerhead-userdebug KeyLimePie / FAC140417_KRT01B PDK853385 test-keys
Also, under runtime, I can chose between Dalvik, ART, and ART Debug mode. Lastly, there are a few diagnostics apps installed on the phone.
I am not sure if any of this is helpful to any developers out there, but if it is, please let me know and I can try to pull an image of the phone for you to use.
I suspect it is some old Android image that they flash onto every phone to do repairs, but since they did not reset the phone to stock, I am happy to try and get the software to any of you if you want it.
mrfochs said:
Hello ALl,
I am not a developer and do very little tinkering with my android phones. That being said, I recently shattered my Nexus 5's sreen and sent it into LG to get repaired. They sent it back as "not repairable: Epoxy Crack." I turned it on as it was still fully functional (minus the screen) when I sent it off. The phone booted up with a letterboxed version of the Nexus 4 boot screen and after going through an initial set up, I went to settings to find that the phone now says:
Android version - KeyLimePie
Baseband version - M8974A-1.0.25.0.15
Kernel version - 3.4.0-gaf7416a-00002-g97abe44 / [email protected] #1 / Thu Apr17 10:56:17 KST 2014
Build number - aosp_hammerhead-userdebug KeyLimePie / FAC140417_KRT01B PDK853385 test-keys
Also, under runtime, I can chose between Dalvik, ART, and ART Debug mode. Lastly, there are a few diagnostics apps installed on the phone.
I am not sure if any of this is helpful to any developers out there, but if it is, please let me know and I can try to pull an image of the phone for you to use.
I suspect it is some old Android image that they flash onto every phone to do repairs, but since they did not reset the phone to stock, I am happy to try and get the software to any of you if you want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
na, its an old pre kitkat prerelease, and has been known about for a long time. whats odd is thats what they flashed, instead of anything more recent. unless thats what their technician have, odd they didnt go with the factory img.
simms22 said:
na, its an old pre kitkat prerelease, and has been known about for a long time. whats odd is thats what they flashed, instead of anything more recent. unless thats what their technician have, odd they didnt go with the factory img.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is even more odd as I have done a factory reset before sending it in so as to ensure that my account data and info was off the phone in the case that they were to send me a new phone instead of swapping out the components of the original. It was fun looking through the random debugging and testing apps they left on the phone. Thank fully my fiancee reads and speaks Korean and she could tell me what the on screen buttons said.
Anyway, thanks. I have decided since LG won't repair the screen, I will. I ordered the screen, digitizer, and front bezel from ETradeSupply and will try to save the phone myself once the part arrives. If all goes well with the replacement, I will flash hopefully back to factory original and then upgrade to 4.4 again.
In the meantime, it looks like a few more days with the Moto G (purchased as a back up phone while sorting out the screen on the Nexus 5).
Interesting to see that the Test Version's Kernel date is 17th April 2014...
LG has two kind of firmware for their devices: FACTORY and USER. Factory image is used to test the phones hardware like bluetooth, wifi, screen etc... and enables some more options for LG testers to make it sure the phone works perfectly. The user image for nexus 5 is the same what google offers for us.
@mrfochs try to do a backup if possible. Kernel, system and radio that is what we need. Also please check the bootloader version if it somethig new then make a backup. You will have problems using LG flashtool in the future, but it can be solved easily. If you ever have to use lg flashtool to return to stock just contact me and we make your phone compatible again with LG flashtool.
While that build is technically old, like @vin4yak said, that kernel date is what's really throwing me off.
I'm on stock right now and KTU84P kernel reads it was created on March 17th, 2014
You should try and extract those troubleshooting apk's and share them with the community.
bitdomo said:
LG has two kind of firmware for their devices: FACTORY and USER. Factory image is used to test the phones hardware like bluetooth, wifi, screen etc... and enables some more options for LG testers to make it sure the phone works perfectly. The user image for nexus 5 is the same what google offers for us.
@mrfochs try to do a backup if possible. Kernel, system and radio that is what we need. Also please check the bootloader version if it somethig new then make a backup. You will have problems using LG flashtool in the future, but it can be solved easily. If you ever have to use lg flashtool to return to stock just contact me and we make your phone compatible again with LG flashtool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am happy to try and make a backup, however I haven't the slightest clue how to go about doing it (like I said in original post I=newb).
mrfochs said:
I am happy to try and make a backup, however I haven't the slightest clue how to go about doing it (like I said in original post I=newb).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlock bootloader, flash twrp recovery make a backup where you select system and boot then you upload the backup somewhere.
mrfochs said:
Anyway, thanks. I have decided since LG won't repair the screen, I will. I ordered the screen, digitizer, and front bezel from ETradeSupply and will try to save the phone myself once the part arrives. If all goes well with the replacement, I will flash hopefully back to factory original and then upgrade to 4.4 again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is so strange. I have the EXACT same situation happening to me. I got my phone back from LG as unrepairable due to "epoxy crack" and now it has this testing Key Lime Pie version that is impossible to update from.
Please let me know if you're able to successfully do the repair yourself or flash back to factory original. From this thread, it seems it's not easy to.
Which part did you order from ETrade Supply?
http://www.etradesupply.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=nexus+5
There's zero reason for this to be happening except extreme incompetence on LG's service tech's part. I would get in contact with them and demand some free service because of this. It's bad enough they can't repair the phone, but it's 100x worse that they send the phone back to you in even worse condition.
No excuse for this. I would be looking for compensation, personally.
Sadly I've heard other worrying things about LG's "repair" service. They don't even seem to realize there's a final clip that needs to be engaged on the back of the phone or else NFC and Qi don't work. That's basic stuff and gives me no confidence in their tech's abilities.
LG Flashtool affects Sideloads?
bitdomo said:
LG has two kind of firmware for their devices: FACTORY and USER. Factory image is used to test the phones hardware like bluetooth, wifi, screen etc... and enables some more options for LG testers to make it sure the phone works perfectly. The user image for nexus 5 is the same what google offers for us.
@mrfochs try to do a backup if possible. Kernel, system and radio that is what we need. Also please check the bootloader version if it somethig new then make a backup. You will have problems using LG flashtool in the future, but it can be solved easily. If you ever have to use lg flashtool to return to stock just contact me and we make your phone compatible again with LG flashtool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have given up trying to get the app files off this phone as the current version of Android that is installed on here keeps crashing popping up "Google Play Services failed to load" or a handful of other popups indicating apps that have failed to launch. I set up the drivers on my computer to sideload 4.4.4 through ADB, but I keep getting "File Signature Verification Failed." Is this a result of trying to sideload the OTA while ADB is seeing a different firmware as a result of the LG Flash tool you mentioned?
I contacted LG to ask them how to get the factory software on the phone and they want me to ship the phone back to them in Fort Worth as their paperwork "doesn't indicate that anything was done to the phone." I would prefer to find a way to install stock back to the phone without having to mail my phone again (especially since I just replaced the screen).
mrfochs said:
I have given up trying to get the app files off this phone as the current version of Android that is installed on here keeps crashing popping up "Google Play Services failed to load" or a handful of other popups indicating apps that have failed to launch. I set up the drivers on my computer to sideload 4.4.4 through ADB, but I keep getting "File Signature Verification Failed." Is this a result of trying to sideload the OTA while ADB is seeing a different firmware as a result of the LG Flash tool you mentioned?
I contacted LG to ask them how to get the factory software on the phone and they want me to ship the phone back to them in Fort Worth as their paperwork "doesn't indicate that anything was done to the phone." I would prefer to find a way to install stock back to the phone without having to mail my phone again (especially since I just replaced the screen).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It'll fail if you're using stock recovery?
mrfochs said:
I have given up trying to get the app files off this phone as the current version of Android that is installed on here keeps crashing popping up "Google Play Services failed to load" or a handful of other popups indicating apps that have failed to launch. I set up the drivers on my computer to sideload 4.4.4 through ADB, but I keep getting "File Signature Verification Failed." Is this a result of trying to sideload the OTA while ADB is seeing a different firmware as a result of the LG Flash tool you mentioned?
I contacted LG to ask them how to get the factory software on the phone and they want me to ship the phone back to them in Fort Worth as their paperwork "doesn't indicate that anything was done to the phone." I would prefer to find a way to install stock back to the phone without having to mail my phone again (especially since I just replaced the screen).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Contact me on hangouts: [email protected]
Then I will make it work to flash google's rom. Only thing you have to do is let me connect to your PC through team viewer and connect your phone in fastboot mode to your PC.
Let me provide and update and go on a rant here for a bit. For anyone who cares to listen.
It took me 1 chat, 1 failed supervisor call back, and 3 consequent phone calls ultimately escalating to a supervisor to get LG to understand they made a mistake and send me a shipping label so they can get the factory test OS removed.
Here is a copy/paste from my first uncanny chat with an LG representative:
Mariangie: Unfortunately the OS they tested is the way they use to repair the phone and since it was not responding on that mode (service mode) that's when the phone is deemed unrepairable
Mariangie: and regretfully no it cant be put back into normal (customer) OS
lifeinpictures: that makes no sense
Mariangie: My sincere apologies
lifeinpictures: controls work just fine
lifeinpictures: it worked fine before I sent it
lifeinpictures: and controls and touch work just fine now
lifeinpictures: you cannot tell me that you guys purposely send items back with a testing operating system, meant for techs and not users
lifeinpictures: at the least, I should be able to get my product in the same state I sent it in
lifeinpictures: not WORSE
Mariangie: I truly apologize again for the inconvenience this may caused, I personally understand your position. I will certainly forward your comments and dissatisfaction about this matter.
lifeinpictures: I don't need you to forward anything, I need you to fix it.
lifeinpictures: you broke it
lifeinpictures: therefore you should fix it
Mariangie: I wish i have other options available, unfortunately the phone cant be put back into normal OS. It seems to have a physical damage that result in internal part not working
Mariangie: techs try to putting the phone into service OS but it is not working
Mariangie: making it not possible to have it repair
Mariangie: and no way to put back on normal mode
lifeinpictures: Mariange, I really doubt you know enough about the testing hammerhead OS to know what you're talking about
Mariangie: My sincere apologies
raul takahashi: an OS is not reliant on physical, operating parts
lifeinpictures: I understand, you feel upset about this
lifeinpictures: I truly apologize again for the inconvenience this represent
lifeinpictures: And again I wish i could have other options to supply you with
lifeinpictures: I'm afraid no other options to provide you with
Mariangie: Sorry Mr. LifeinPictures.
lifeinpictures: this is pretty much against the law Mariange
lifeinpictures: this is like giving you my car to repair a cracked window
lifeinpictures: and you give it back to me with a broken engine, which wasn't broken before
Mariangie: My sincere apologies, Again I wish i could have other options to supply you with, I'm afraid no other options to provide you with.
It took me all evening, but I finally reached a supervisor to resolve (interestingly, it's the exact same supervisor I had escalated to just 2 weeks ago. read below if interested. He immediately accepted the mistake, and finally offered a ship label to get the phone shipped back and fixed.
I have lost complete faith in LG as a company and will do everything I can to avoid them.
Previous history, copied and pasted from Google forum thread about cracked screen:
To quickly recap my history and experience with Nexus 5.
1. Buy Nexus 5.
2. Drop it on carpet from coffee table 2 feet tall, screen completely shattered. 4 months after purchase. (Owned 12 phones in my life, all handled way more abuse)
3. Pay LG $140 to repair.
4. LG sends me refurbished unit, not my original one repaired. I'm ok with this.
5. Buy heavy duty case because apparently this thing is fragile.
6. Lunch in an outside restaurant patio. Sunny day. Table is warm to the touch, but nothing anyone notices or cares about as they eat. I put my phone face down, glass on table. Pick up phone to leave, there is a crack from side to side of the phone. Just great. Can't even handle everyday situations, less severe than a hot car (for example).
7. Crack very soon start expanding to the rest of the phone. Now entire screen cracked.
8. Send to LG for repair, again.*
9. Phone comes back as unrepairable due to "epoxy crack". (B.S. this was less severe than my 1st one and phone is fully functional, electronically and mechanically. Research proves many recent attempts by other Nexus 5 owners sending cracked phones for repair have been denied)
10. Phone comes back worse than it was when sent, with testing factory OS instead of user OS. Unable to update from.
*=Customer service: 4 days go by since LG has possession of my phone. I call to ask for status, rep says "wait until we call your or email you". Next day, I get a UPS notice that phone is being shipped back. I call to find out why, speak to 3 reps, none can tell me anything other than "it's not repairable". 4th call reaches supervisor, who tells me it's due to "damaged electronics". It's a lie, but I give up.
(My theory on these newfound lack of willingness to replace screens:
LG / Google is aware they skimped on glass quality to keep the price low. They made a (decent) business decision to first do "whatever it takes" to keep customers happy and loyal. This includes fixing screens "outside of warranty" (since they know it's impossible for customers to prove a cracked screen is manufacturer fault) for a very reasonable cost of $140 which is close to cost (parts + labor) or potentially at a loss. This keeps the majority of owners at bay. Now, Nexus 6 is on the horizon and the loss or lack of revenue from these Nexus 5 screen repairs has surpassed expectation so they have advised their repair stations to deny them. They've done their part with an acceptable level of damage control and soon everyone will get a Nexus 6, move on, and forget the Nexus 5 was a debacle.)
lifeinpictures said:
This is so strange. I have the EXACT same situation happening to me. I got my phone back from LG as unrepairable due to "epoxy crack" and now it has this testing Key Lime Pie version that is impossible to update from.
Please let me know if you're able to successfully do the repair yourself or flash back to factory original. From this thread, it seems it's not easy to.
Which part did you order from ETrade Supply?
http://www.etradesupply.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=nexus+5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lifeinpictures said:
Let me provide and update and go on a rant here for a bit. For anyone who cares to listen.
It took me 1 chat, 1 failed supervisor call back, and 3 consequent phone calls ultimately escalating to a supervisor to get LG to understand they made a mistake and send me a shipping label so they can get the factory test OS removed.
Here is a copy/paste from my first uncanny chat with an LG representative:
Mariangie: Unfortunately the OS they tested is the way they use to repair the phone and since it was not responding on that mode (service mode) that's when the phone is deemed unrepairable
Mariangie: and regretfully no it cant be put back into normal (customer) OS
lifeinpictures: that makes no sense
Mariangie: My sincere apologies
lifeinpictures: controls work just fine
lifeinpictures: it worked fine before I sent it
lifeinpictures: and controls and touch work just fine now
lifeinpictures: you cannot tell me that you guys purposely send items back with a testing operating system, meant for techs and not users
lifeinpictures: at the least, I should be able to get my product in the same state I sent it in
lifeinpictures: not WORSE
Mariangie: I truly apologize again for the inconvenience this may caused, I personally understand your position. I will certainly forward your comments and dissatisfaction about this matter.
lifeinpictures: I don't need you to forward anything, I need you to fix it.
lifeinpictures: you broke it
lifeinpictures: therefore you should fix it
Mariangie: I wish i have other options available, unfortunately the phone cant be put back into normal OS. It seems to have a physical damage that result in internal part not working
Mariangie: techs try to putting the phone into service OS but it is not working
Mariangie: making it not possible to have it repair
Mariangie: and no way to put back on normal mode
lifeinpictures: Mariange, I really doubt you know enough about the testing hammerhead OS to know what you're talking about
Mariangie: My sincere apologies
raul takahashi: an OS is not reliant on physical, operating parts
lifeinpictures: I understand, you feel upset about this
lifeinpictures: I truly apologize again for the inconvenience this represent
lifeinpictures: And again I wish i could have other options to supply you with
lifeinpictures: I'm afraid no other options to provide you with
Mariangie: Sorry Mr. LifeinPictures.
lifeinpictures: this is pretty much against the law Mariange
lifeinpictures: this is like giving you my car to repair a cracked window
lifeinpictures: and you give it back to me with a broken engine, which wasn't broken before
Mariangie: My sincere apologies, Again I wish i could have other options to supply you with, I'm afraid no other options to provide you with.
It took me all evening, but I finally reached a supervisor to resolve (interestingly, it's the exact same supervisor I had escalated to just 2 weeks ago. read below if interested. He immediately accepted the mistake, and finally offered a ship label to get the phone shipped back and fixed.
I have lost complete faith in LG as a company and will do everything I can to avoid them.
Previous history, copied and pasted from Google forum thread about cracked screen:
To quickly recap my history and experience with Nexus 5.
1. Buy Nexus 5.
2. Drop it on carpet from coffee table 2 feet tall, screen completely shattered. 4 months after purchase. (Owned 12 phones in my life, all handled way more abuse)
3. Pay LG $140 to repair.
4. LG sends me refurbished unit, not my original one repaired. I'm ok with this.
5. Buy heavy duty case because apparently this thing is fragile.
6. Lunch in an outside restaurant patio. Sunny day. Table is warm to the touch, but nothing anyone notices or cares about as they eat. I put my phone face down, glass on table. Pick up phone to leave, there is a crack from side to side of the phone. Just great. Can't even handle everyday situations, less severe than a hot car (for example).
7. Crack very soon start expanding to the rest of the phone. Now entire screen cracked.
8. Send to LG for repair, again.*
9. Phone comes back as unrepairable due to "epoxy crack". (B.S. this was less severe than my 1st one and phone is fully functional, electronically and mechanically. Research proves many recent attempts by other Nexus 5 owners sending cracked phones for repair have been denied)
10. Phone comes back worse than it was when sent, with testing factory OS instead of user OS. Unable to update from.
*=Customer service: 4 days go by since LG has possession of my phone. I call to ask for status, rep says "wait until we call your or email you". Next day, I get a UPS notice that phone is being shipped back. I call to find out why, speak to 3 reps, none can tell me anything other than "it's not repairable". 4th call reaches supervisor, who tells me it's due to "damaged electronics". It's a lie, but I give up.
(My theory on these newfound lack of willingness to replace screens:
LG / Google is aware they skimped on glass quality to keep the price low. They made a (decent) business decision to first do "whatever it takes" to keep customers happy and loyal. This includes fixing screens "outside of warranty" (since they know it's impossible for customers to prove a cracked screen is manufacturer fault) for a very reasonable cost of $140 which is close to cost (parts + labor) or potentially at a loss. This keeps the majority of owners at bay. Now, Nexus 6 is on the horizon and the loss or lack of revenue from these Nexus 5 screen repairs has surpassed expectation so they have advised their repair stations to deny them. They've done their part with an acceptable level of damage control and soon everyone will get a Nexus 6, move on, and forget the Nexus 5 was a debacle.)
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Good on you for standing up to their B.S. as there's just no excuse for that to happen. We can't argue with their reasoning for not repairing (it's up to them to decide if they want to attempt a repair for $140, after all) but they can't be so lazy/incompetent as to not reload the proper software on there. It would take them what, a couple minutes? Similar to how they're not engaging people's NFC/Qi charger on the back of the phone which should be obvious to techs who's job it is to work with these devices.
Don't forget you can always bring your phone into an independent repair shop, they won't refuse your money though I doubt their attention to detail will be much better than your average LG tech.
remove lg version?
I have the same problem. Is it possible to root this phone and remove the LG flash version and put KitKat on there?
naparama said:
I have the same problem. Is it possible to root this phone and remove the LG flash version and put KitKat on there?
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Are you the one who contacted me on email?
yes
bitdomo said:
Are you the one who contacted me on email?
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yes, that was me, thanks.
loop after flash
naparama said:
yes, that was me, thanks.
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hi, I flashed the stock android after unlocking bootloader, but now it is stuck in a boot loop. I also I noticed that when it flashed, after finishing, it said boot.sig recovery.sig system.sig werent found. when I tried to boot in the safe mode, the little green android man was on his back with a red exclamation point. any thoughts?
Or can ASUS still tell if my phone has already been previously rooted? I come from Samsung phone where rooting the phone would permanently trip Knox as if there's some sort of hardware fuse. I'm wondering if something similar happens to ROG Phone as well.
Good question, I'm curious as well.
My guess is since the phone pings asus to unlock bootloader that they know on their end that its been tinkered with.
If you have used the official method they have record of your device id. The good news is they're not too hostile towards unlocked devices like some of the other brands - they know most of their customers are on the wild side
Asus releases an official unlock app, so the warning about voiding warranty is more intended toward covering issues you cause yourself. They usually still cover the internal hardware and provide support for the stock firmware. If flashing the phone back to stock fixes the issue, they may even help with that. At the end of the day, it's there so they have the option to deny claims.
When someone steals a phone the first thing they usually do is a factory reset. "Factory Reset Protection" (FRP) is supposed to protect the owner by denying access to the phone unless the owners passcode is applied even if the phone has been reset.
One main problem with this form of protection is that once the phone has been reset the owner can no longer track the phone using the "Find my phone" app or any similar aftermarket application. Sure, the thief can't use the phone but the owner also loses all hope of ever finding their phone again.
But, what if there was some way to make sure that the Google account associated with the owner could remain associated with the phone even after a factory reset? This way the thief believes they have successfully reset the phone. They still can't use it unless they input the correct security code, but the owner can still track the phone once it has been powered back up and turned on.
Would something like this be possible to create?
Physical security is the only real security.
The price for my device is blood, the sweat is free. Avoid flashing your phone in public, eyes on your surroundings not your phone.
You can always blacklist the imei...
blackhawk said:
Physical security is the only real security.
The price for my device is blood, the sweat is free. Avoid flashing your phone in public, eyes on your surroundings not your phone.
You can always blacklist the imei...
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Yeah, but there are too many loser's out there happy enough to have an expensive phone of someone else's even if all they can use it for is wifi. Shoot, there are enough of them out there willing to steal your phone knowing that all it's going to be is an expensive paperweight. They don't care as long as they think they have something expensive.
Phdintheory said:
Yeah, but there are too many loser's out there happy enough to have an expensive phone of someone else's even if all they can use it for is wifi. Shoot, there are enough of them out there willing to steal your phone knowing that all it's going to be is an expensive paperweight. They don't care as long as they think they have something expensive.
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That's why physical security is the only thing that really works.
Example of physical security please?
Phdintheory said:
Example of physical security please?
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Keeping the phone with you at all times.
Either in your hand or pocket in unsecured locations. Watch the people around you, not the phone when playing in the real world. Think.
Okay, yeah. That's what I thought you meant. See, the problem is I do that religiously and I still lost my phone. In this case what happened is that it was in the inside pocket of my jacket. I bent over and didn't notice that it had slipped out. I had never had problems with that before so didn't think it would have been a problem then. Didn't notice the phone missing until I had gotten home. Tracked my phone to a location with lots of people. The thief turned the phone off and has obviously reset it because I can no longer track it.
So... Physical security still doesn't account for "**** happening."
Which brings me back to the original question. Couldn't a set of code be written that keeps the Google account tied to the phone even after a factory reset has been performed?
Phdintheory said:
Okay, yeah. That's what I thought you meant. See, the problem is I do that religiously and I still lost my phone. In this case what happened is that it was in the inside pocket of my jacket. I bent over and didn't notice that it had slipped out. I had never had problems with that before so didn't think it would have been a problem then. Didn't notice the phone missing until I had gotten home. Tracked my phone to a location with lots of people. The thief turned the phone off and has obviously reset it because I can no longer track it.
So... Physical security still doesn't account for "**** happening."
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Well I have never lost a cell phone in 12 years or for that matter broken one. I have "lost" them inside the house or van temporarily but that is rare.
Secure it so it can't fall out. I find bdu cargo pockets are perfect for my N10+'s.
Okay, just so you understand, you're not helping. I guess people aren't as good as you are. **** happens to the rest of us I guess. Please either answer the question or let others answer who have something to offer relating to the question as asked.
Phdintheory said:
Okay, just so you understand, you're not helping. I guess people aren't as good as you are. **** happens to the rest of us I guess. Please either answer the question or let others answer who have something to offer relating to the question as asked.
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No matter what you do once it's out of your hands, it's gone.
Actions... consequences.
A third party app like this. That just protects the data as does frp.
A hidden stand alone gps tracker... smaller ones exist that could be embedded but that's getting DOD spook crazy to solve a simple problem of accountability on your part.
Phdintheory said:
Okay, just so you understand, you're not helping. I guess people aren't as good as you are. **** happens to the rest of us I guess. Please either answer the question or let others answer who have something to offer relating to the question as asked.
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In theory you could set aside part of the partition that wouldn't get wiped or affected by reinstalling system with the code you suggest, or onto another chip. But this then means it becomes a security & privacy issue for phones that are sold or given to wives/partners etc, and then what about the next owner, do they get to have their account also permanently associated with phone? So, no this will never be allowed by Google/phone companies. As Blackhawk says, physical security is the where it's at, ultimately.