You know what bugs me already for years is the following...
Mobile phones, which I paid a lot for, come with poor vendor roms, which are locked. They are mostly rich in bugs and therefore poor in bugfixes, support and updates.
xda-developers mod roms, cyanogenmod, android root and so on are such great projects...
The problem with those is, that
- warranty gets lost
- not available for all phones (there are for example no mod roms for Motorola Flipout, because the bootloader has been successfully protected my Motorola and no one could hack it yet)
- the developers have to waste time with working around the protections to mod the device
It is ridiculous, you paid the full price for the phone, but never get the right to fully use it's potential.
Let's compare it with buying a normal laptop. It's also a piece of hardware and mostly there is Windows preinstalled with a loads of bloated unwanted software. This might be ok for a lot of people. And the rest? They are free to install ANY operating system they wish.
On normal laptops there are not risks when messing around with new operating systems. Of course you need some knowledge and you may lose your data, if you do not know what you are doing. But since all my messing with operating systems for PC, I never damaged the hardware, simply it is designed in a way, not to be damaged by software, it's robust.
Mobile phone vendors claim, they lock us out, because we could potentially harm the hardware. Isn't it their task, just to develop robust hardware and allow us to install any software we want?
This petition would aim for:
- open bootloader by default
- root by default
- warranty for the hardware, no matter which software you used
- free to install custom roms
- robust hardware
I'd like to start a petition and perhaps some public awareness for this issue.
So, if you want to help with anything.... Like writing a petition, a more handy text then this, for example, would be needed.
Discuss.
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with. There is already a problem with self entitled gits who dont read properly, or make an effort to understand what they are doing who download a WP7 rom, try to put it on a sensation, and expect someone to come running with a new phone. I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
hungry81 said:
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with. There is already a problem with self entitled gits who dont read properly, or make an effort to understand what they are doing who download a WP7 rom, try to put it on a sensation, and expect someone to come running with a new phone. I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
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Click to collapse
I agree with this.
One of the major issues with phone ROMs is that you do have the potential to completely brick your phone if you don't know what you're doing. Unrelated hardware failures (i.e. USB port loses power while flashing a new bootloader) may hard brick your phone to a state of complete uselessness.
Having super user access and root on a phone is another issue that the vast majority of end users do not want to have to deal with. UAC is enabled by default on Windows Vista and 7 because it provides robust protection for people who DO NOT know what they are doing. For day to day usage of a computer, users do not need an account with any special access privilege. Even if you do know what you're doing, its still SAFER to be on a non-admin account for day to day computer use.
hungry81 said:
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with.
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Click to collapse
There are also computers which come without any software, just hardware. If anything goes wrong, like defect harddrive, then it will be replaced, because of warranty.
Mobile phones are very similar to computers nowadays. But there are no decent mobile phones without operating systems available. This is also what I vote vor.
hungry81 said:
I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
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Click to collapse
Well, messing with software -> no more software suppprt -> but hardware warranty still ok.
Kagadar said:
One of the major issues with phone ROMs is that you do have the potential to completely brick your phone if you don't know what you're doing. Unrelated hardware failures (i.e. USB port loses power while flashing a new bootloader) may hard brick your phone to a state of complete uselessness.
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Click to collapse
I agree that this problem does exist right now...
But only because the hardware is not robust.
As far I know, (a while ago I informed myself about a few devices) it is not possible to brick Nokia S60 v3 devices. This is because the routine to flash the device is read only and can not be changed. No matter if you lose power during flashing or usb cable loss... You can always flash again. There is NO way to brick the device while flashing.
Apart from the flash routine which is hardly built into the phone, the rest of the phones software can be updated.
That demonstrates that there are no technical limitations to deploy robust hardware.
Kagadar said:
Having super user access and root on a phone is another issue that the vast majority of end users do not want to have to deal with. UAC is enabled by default on Windows Vista and 7 because it provides robust protection for people who DO NOT know what they are doing. For day to day usage of a computer, users do not need an account with any special access privilege. Even if you do know what you're doing, its still SAFER to be on a non-admin account for day to day computer use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree that it is saves not to use admin account for everyday use and that it's also a good idea not to have it enabled by default.
On computers you still have the option to legally use your root account. At the other hand with mobile phones this is completely unwanted and you need some kind of hack to do it. This is the difference. And this is what I complain about.
Yeah
I think just like apps there are some absolutely amazing ROMs that run better than the vendor ROMs. I think they should allow those changes to occur whether through a "vendor verified" developer or some kind of authorized ROM download channel through the manufacturer so you can get the style and type you want the most which typically runs much smoother without voiding the warranty. Great idea!
Lmao. Hell no. Carriers and manufacturers will try to start sellings roms like theyre crack. Ringtones anybody? Cmon. Only $3.
Anyways. I think the op doesnt know what hes asking for. What you want is a blank phone and you want the manufacturer to cover hardware no matter what is done with phone. Fair enough. I guess you want them to cover the phone if you burn through all your write cycles in the flash memory used because you have to flash anything you can your digital hands on. You do realize this will cause the price of parts to go up in the long run? And prices upfront will be more because they will calculate losses due to all the warranty claims. Should i keep wondering why insurance prices keep going up? Phones are built much, much different from computers. Pc's are generally modular and a single piece if defective is claimed to oem of that part. Not necessarily hp or dell. Phones usually only have one or two boards in them with all your components. So if you somehow manage to fry your wifi because you thought could improve reception or your bandwidth or whatever with something custom and it doesnt work, that whole board, system or maybe even phone depending on how its built now needs to be replaced.
I dont want to say it, but itis fair for them to not cover your phone if you went above and beyond. True, because we have become digital crackheads we usually become beta testers for their hw/sw but we also have the power of the coin too. You cant fault them if you wanted to improve their bugs/sw. You cant go banging on your drug dealers door either when he sells you some bunk cocaine and you go mix it with drano, just hoping for something and it backfires on you.
I voided my warranty.
Some interesting opinions. If this was made legal there would likely be restrictions placed on what can be changed, and it would likely end up regulated in some way.
The result would be third-party 'illegal' roms and commercially available 'legal' ones.
People like us would likely still be flashing illegal roms with modified clock-speeds etc ; )
Related
Before throwing a quick answer out to me, please read this quick blurb that describes my situation:
I have a Nexus S. On my 51st week of ownership (aka last week of warranty), the power button decided to bite the dust. This has been documented by other owners as well, notably the one and only simms22 himself. This is a common problem with Nexus S owners. Anyways, while I was trying to flash it back to stock, just my luck the TWRP recovery app crashes, leaving me with a wiped /system and a few other partitions seemingly out of whack. As a result, I have a non-booting phone. I can get as far as the Google logo with the unlocked padlock, at which point it of course cant find an OS to load (/system is blank). Anyways, I was unable to recover it back to stock because for some reason, if the power button doesnt work, then the bootloader and fastboot do not work properly. Basically, the bootloader is unresponsive unless the physical buttons are actually functioning.
I have no doubt that this phone is more than fixable. A simple repair of the power button and I'll be on my way. But of course, I was unable to do that, so I had to send it in today (in the state I just described) with a note explaining that I'm a developer, and work with various systems. This may have been a stretch, but I figured it'll help. I explained that I am 100% sure the problem is hardware-related, and independent of any software. I said that I had tested many versions of Android and have determined that since the phone doesnt respond to power presses when OFF, that it is NOT software related.
Anyhoo, I know I've got myself into some ****, so I'm curious: what kind of legal recourse do I have if they try to deny my warranty claim? I'm aware of the following:
1. The bootloader on a Nexus S specifically states that unlocking the bootloader or modifying software MAY void the warranty. It doesnt say it DOES, but that it MAY. I believe that is a strong word to use, and may very much help my case if I have to fight it. It would seem to me that this leaves Samsung with the burden of proof showing that software mods caused a button that communicates 1-way (lol) to fail, which is impossible. It's physically impossible to set the software to 'fry' the power button. It's a physical button...software simply detects presses and acts based upon it.
2. The 1975 Magnuson-Moss Act has been used frequently in the automotive sector, though its language is in no way geared towards cars. It helps to keep manufacturers from claiming things like 3rd party stereos voiding drivetrain warranties.
I'm fully prepared to fight them on this one if I have to, but I'm hoping someone can help give me some additional ammo here. I'm hoping that I won't have to, and that Samsung will do the right thing and repair it without charge. I'm a faithful customer of theirs.
Thanks!
I don't have anything but I suggest you look into your state laws as well.
You may have some extra protections given to you by your state laws.
t1n0m3n said:
I don't have anything but I suggest you look into your state laws as well.
You may have some extra protections given to you by your state laws.
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Click to collapse
That's exactly what I'm doing right now, but I've had no luck so far. It seems that Australia, on the other hand, is all over that kind of stuff. Damn Aussies
Anyways, if anyone can assist me with USA-wide or TN-specific consumer/trade laws that protect me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Or if someone has a similar experience to share, please do!
I have a very unique situation.
I dropped my phone in the trash at work(IT Company), accidentally one day, and a small amount of disturbingly gross liquid managed to make it's way into my phone.
I wiped it down, made sure it didn't smell like crap - etc.
Everything worked FINE at first, I said ah, good. Apparently it was not not good.
Now, the phone gets stuck in a loop where it thinks to itself it's charging for a second, then it's not, keeping the screen on and flashing the charging notification repetitively until it decides to stop for an hour, then come back.
Radioshack screwed me over BIG TIME on my phone insurance, I filed a ripoff report etc, and given I need my phone for work related issues I really cannot afford to have any downtime having it be sent in and repaired. NO, I cannot receive an immediate replacement, and NO, I cannot afford another phone.
So, therefore I come to you, my great friends at XDA.
I've a fairly decent background in programming, I understand the just of it. I've taken classes in ASM(Microcomputer Architecture and Programming), C/Java and Python.
And no, I'm not a college-fed programmer, I've been programming in VB, C/C++, PERL etc. since I was 13(22 now.)
So, to the specifics:
My phone is a Samsung Transform Ultra, Android 2.3, rooted and running a "ROM" if you could call it that, but it shouldn't make that much of a difference(just installed it to get rid of CIQ)
Now, I've never wrote a mobile app before but I have the android SDK (1.6-4.0), and I'm fairly certain I could get a hello world going in a matter of minutes.
I'm willing to do the research myself, I just need some good pointers and some people who might be able to answer a few questions along my journey, and when the app is done I will be releasing it in full, yes, to you XDA.
Programming costs time, replacing the phone costs money. I have more time than money.
Best regards!
Bump.
Any help on this issue would be GREATLY, GREATLY appreciated as this is quite possibly the most angering issue imaginable.
I don't know if this will help, but I had a similar problem with my galaxy S. It turned out to be a tiny piece of silver paper that had managed to get into the micro usb slot. A quick shake later and problem solved.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
thebotnet said:
I have a very unique situation.
I dropped my phone in the trash at work(IT Company), accidentally one day, and a small amount of disturbingly gross liquid managed to make it's way into my phone.
I wiped it down, made sure it didn't smell like crap - etc.
Everything worked FINE at first, I said ah, good. Apparently it was not not good.
Now, the phone gets stuck in a loop where it thinks to itself it's charging for a second, then it's not, keeping the screen on and flashing the charging notification repetitively until it decides to stop for an hour, then come back.
Radioshack screwed me over BIG TIME on my phone insurance, I filed a ripoff report etc, and given I need my phone for work related issues I really cannot afford to have any downtime having it be sent in and repaired. NO, I cannot receive an immediate replacement, and NO, I cannot afford another phone.
So, therefore I come to you, my great friends at XDA.
I've a fairly decent background in programming, I understand the just of it. I've taken classes in ASM(Microcomputer Architecture and Programming), C/Java and Python.
And no, I'm not a college-fed programmer, I've been programming in VB, C/C++, PERL etc. since I was 13(22 now.)
So, to the specifics:
My phone is a Samsung Transform Ultra, Android 2.3, rooted and running a "ROM" if you could call it that, but it shouldn't make that much of a difference(just installed it to get rid of CIQ)
Now, I've never wrote a mobile app before but I have the android SDK (1.6-4.0), and I'm fairly certain I could get a hello world going in a matter of minutes.
I'm willing to do the research myself, I just need some good pointers and some people who might be able to answer a few questions along my journey, and when the app is done I will be releasing it in full, yes, to you XDA.
Programming costs time, replacing the phone costs money. I have more time than money.
Best regards!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One maybe possible solution maybe... (free app) (need root)
Hardware Disabler
The though is, in order to stop that you are going to have to disable the actual USB port. You are going to have to play around and find out what driver corresponds to that USB port ... good luck, let me know if it helped.
(Yes I made that app)
Anyone think that they could replace a obd2 ecm/ecu with an android phone?
therealmaximus said:
Anyone think that they could replace a obd2 ecm/ecu with an android phone?
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Click to collapse
I may be wrong, but:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque
ive seen these, they just read parameters from the computer via the obd diagnostic port, what i meant was actually removing the the obd computer and using an android device to receive the incoming sensor data and use the data such as rpm, throttle position, and so forth to advance or retard timing tables and fuel tables to actually run the engine i have tuning software for my honda that i can run and retune my engine with but only from my laptop id like to be able to do this with an android device.
[A] 😉 let me know
That's an interesting question and not what I thought it was when I first read your initil post. Reading it literally you're asking about replacing the actual 'brain' that conductor that co-ordinates the entire ignition,fueling,emmisions and other secondary parameters that make the engine run in a harmonious symphony(oh, whatever happened to self metering by atmospheric pressure drop and contact breakers lol). I read it as taking out the OE ecu/ecm/powertrain module or whatever other term you use for it and replacing it with an android device. An interesting exercise but hardly worth the mountain range of problems involved considering you can go out and buy a custom fully programmable ECU anyway.
That is how it sounds though when you say replacing the ecu with an android device. i.e removing the ecu and putting in one running android or a piggyback ecu running amdroid....... i know, i'm being maybe a little too pedantic but it drew me in and made me read the thread and am definitely interested in finding out if there are any android apps that can reprogram or flash an ecu similar to the ones that run on windows.
I've mentioned in another thread I have a deep knowledge and experience in the car side of the equation but my knowledge of computers themselves ranks about 'interested in knowinf more but basically capable of using one n that's it' level. Or tge same as 99.99% of car drivers. They can drive but beyond that all they really know is where to out the petrol in although 100,000s of them will say they know all about cars lol.
In other words, I see know reason why technically there are no equivalent android apps/devices that can do what software packages running windows you use on a laptop. I'm in a similar but different position than you. I really want that ability to remap/flash new firmware onto ecu's except right now I don't have a laptop or desktop of any kind right now. All my online and computer needs are admirably dealt with on my Note 3 so i haven't bothered replacing either my pc or laptop when they passed on.
Was on ebay recently and seen very interesting and potentially useful software claiming to be able communicate fully with any obd1 and 2 ecus allowing you to reset, remap and 'chip' any ecus and also fully set up a new replacement custom reprogrammable ecu too although i am skeptical you could buy one that fully capable for £20 off ebay but they promise full customer support and the ability to download an entire remap for almost any make amd model so perhaps their claims are based on the abilitynof their product rather than merely sales rhetoric.
Anyway, what I mean is I see no reason why if windows can fully communicate with obd2 and android can also read current and pending dtcs, display freeze frame, live data and allow you, if you know the particular formula, to view data with custom PIDs then it seems possible that a software package written for android couldn't be capable of doing wnat these windows/mac programmes can do. I'm sure I've seen linux compatible software for desktops out there so surely an android version is poasible. BUT as i explained my knowledge of computer systems/languages is risible so there may well be a glaringly obvious reason that android is unsuitable (there's probably 1000s of 10 year olds laughing lije mad thinking is this guy stupid or what lol).
BUT if you ever come accross such an software package that runs on android let me know because if not it looks like I'm going to have to go buy this 20 odd quid ebay software AND a bloody laptop on top to bw able to use it
Hey,
It occurs to me this might be the sort of thing that might exist buried deep in some developers tool kit.
I am often stuck wanting to know more about what exactly my phone is doing. An external device which could take reported data on what exactly different components of the software system - including the operating system of course, were doing, would be very useful.
Exactly what data they were transferring and where and when, in particular. The capacity to frankly break various parts by disconnecting them - task killer, basically, but one that that does not run on the phone under inspection itsself.
There is also the need for something similar for wifi, of course. Something which gives much more detailed information than signal strength... I have never been able to find that.
This seems particularly pressing from the standpoint of owning one's own phone, owning in the sense of frankly controlling it (which is what real ownership implies.) So not just having it rooted, but being able to see into the internal workings to determine what it is doing. The degree of technical knowledge to do things goes down greatly when you can really see in there.
It would help greatly reduce the impact spyware and malware, including frankly cyber weapons used by the authorities against their own people, giving a sort of very general and innate resistance. Something which sys admins, I hear, generally quite appreciate and make good use of. One, because the user can reliably and with fine detail monitor the behavior of the phone in various ways, and manipulate it. Secondly, and perhaps less importantly, no software running on the actual phone can ever really be that reliable in the face of being duped by talented malware engineers.
Just wanted to find some opinions on what to get basically it's been awhile since I was on her and my note ten is having the cold battery can't charge issue so Im looking what to replace it with and need root and loved the functionality of a fully unlocked bootloader but I missed the great speeds of a US phone since I'm in the US so wonder what I shoud do?
Too cold, won't charge?
You think it's a mobo failure on the 10+?
I've never seen that warning. Use something like DevChek to view all the sensor temperatures.
May just be a battery failure. They're good for about 2 years on a heavily used phone, my lasted 1.5 years and failed.
I'm looking at getting a second Note. My choices are another 10+ or a new 20U. It will likely be another 10+; it a solid, stable, fast phone with no glaring issues. If still running on Pie, that's a huge plus, Android 10 and especially 11 just suck. I don't have high hopes for 12.
So if it's the battery or C port PCB*, just replace and wait for the 2022 Note release.
From what I've read the Snapdragon has a better chipset architecture and instruction set.
They seem to be notoriously hard to root. Probably not a good choice for rooting.
I know you can optimize a stock 10+/Pie, not sure how well that will go with Android 10 and above. Some of the functionality isn't there for valuable 3rd party apps like Karma Firewall's logging feature. You can still use Package Disabler or ADB edits to kill the bloatware though.
On newer high dollar phones is many ways rooting is a liability especially with warranty/insurance and you lose Knox, Samsung Pass etc if you use that junk. There are those especially on this forum that swear by it but won't acknowledge their cost in time (which can be and typically is huge) and inconvenience.
Stock Androids/roms are easier to troubleshoot and more secure. If there are issues with a stock setup there will be thousands or more with the same issue making solutions more likely and easier to find. With a custom setup you are on your own which can quickly implode into a time sucking blackhole in more ways than there are stars.
If I was going to root it be an older Note... not a brand new one... risk/time vs reward.
*the C port PCB may have a temperature sensor, not sure. It can cause a lot of bizarre issues in seemingly unrelated systems like internet connection, I know that for a fact. Make sure if you do replace it you get the exact PN that on that PCB or it will not function properly! Both the battery and C port PCB are relatively easy to replace with the proper tools and skillset. Both are cheap, under $50. Make sure you replace the back cover OEM seal with the same or equivalent if you open it up. Do not use generic double sided adhesive tape!
And the award for Longest Post Title and Longest Run On Sentence In A XDA Post goes to...
*Nervously opens envelope*
@ressegger !!!
*Raucous applause*
ressegger said:
Just wanted to find some opinions on what to get basically it's been awhile since I was on her and my note ten is having the cold battery can't charge issue so Im looking what to replace it with and need root and loved the functionality of a fully unlocked bootloader but I missed the great speeds of a US phone since I'm in the US so wonder what I shoud do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes ,
i had this same issue of yours ,
"to cold to charge" can't charge ,
notice/issue .....many years back .
Can't remember which device of mine it was , think it was a Samsung Tablet A 2016 .
Anyway ,
Took devices to Samsung Service Centre.
It was the USB charging port .
They did not charge me much for the repairs .
Got it fixed and device charging normally / working fine afterwards.
My point is whatever you do or decide do not "throw/give "device away .
It's a small fix.....!
good luck
I am running the US snapdragon spammy 20 - ultra rooted up with boot loader unlocked thanks to afane and his advanced bros, although due to the lock down on many features such as scoped (controlled) storage preventing apps from being installed outside of the control room (googel store), did I mention notification sound got locked down too?