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ok saw a post on the sprint hero boards and wanted to ask over here aswell since the g1 area has a lot more developers for it.
would porting webOS to an android phone seem possible? I had a palm pre for a bit was cool and fast, I like android more but the thought of running it would be cool
Noooooooooo
You mean porting over apps?
or running webOS on your phone?
In a word:
No.
In more words:
We need drivers. There are no WebOS drivers for Android devices. Many of the existing drivers that we need are proprietary, meaning (and I'm not sure on this part) most likely the hardware specifications necessary to write drivers are closed as well. If they are not closed, it would be possible--but not for a team of geeks like XDA. You'd need a major entity, like Google, to do it, which won't happen. Besides, not all of WebOS is completely open-source, just like not ALL of what goes into Android phones is. It's just not possible--even if the driver issue could be overcome, which it can't.
Yet another word:
This is a question, so it belongs in Q&A. Not to be a jerk or anything, but just letting you know, so next time you can post there.
Doesn't seem possible at this current time however I disagree with the post above if all of xda devs came together then it might be possible due to the fact cyanogen im guessing could make his own drivers etc. However as said above it would not be possible due to the fact it is not completely open-source
ps: Why would you want webOS it is nothing compared to android - IF you agree then post back with this a smile ^_^
xillius200 said:
Doesn't seem possible at this current time however I disagree with the post above if all of xda devs came together then it might be possible due to the fact cyanogen im guessing could make his own drivers etc. However as said above it would not be possible due to the fact it is not completely open-source
ps: Why would you want webOS it is nothing compared to android - IF you agree then post back with this a smile ^_^
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Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
linuxluver said:
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
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Okay so simply put we would need MacGyver to write the drivers...
you know, none of this is true, as the drivers for all of the HTC android phones have the drivers built into the kernel (as opposed to running as modules with the exception of wifi) because of GPL, they have released this information, albeit kinda late (*cough* CDMA hero) one stumbling block is how WebOS is going to interface with the drivers may be different, keep in palm has its kernel modifications "drivers" also available (once again because of GPL) so if interfacing is different, it COULD possibly be reverse engineered... the actual WebOS platform IS closed source however, making this all much much more difficult.
http://developer.htc.com/
http://opensource.palm.com/
dont let anyone tell you its impossible, its not. Are you going to port it? No, if you had to start this thread, then its not likely.
mbazdell said:
Okay so simply put we would need MacGyver to write the drivers...
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rofl..............
Napoleon said:
Impossible is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools.
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That said I like my android
linuxluver said:
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
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Click to collapse
Also yeah without knowing about the phone it is like building the empire state building. That's why you buy the phone open it up find details on the phone first off and try and figure it out by taking a long look and experimenting otherwise you will never get anywhere. It is like life without actually doing it and just saying about it you will never achieve it so you do it
If Cyanogen or another dev decided to do this it is not impossible as long as they know how to build a device driver which i know 4 of the devs on here can do it is not impossible. The question is would they actually do this project?
Personally I do not see a point in this project if you wanted a webOS why didn't you buy a palm sry if i may sound a little rude but it is the truth why buy a android?
If i may have sounded rude in the sentence above i am very sry you can shun me down
xillius200 said:
For linux once never went my way and stop having a go i was just voicing my opinion it is a free country im just saying with cyanogenmod, Wesgarner, Ctso, Kingklick etc. we stand a great chance at doing it and i bet cyan must have made a device driver before. so please don't go off on one i don't care if this get's made as stated below android is better anyway so get off my back linuxluver and stop being a jackass all I was trying to say is it could be done and not impossible you are making it sound like we have no hope in hell.
ps: I only wan't to come on here to chat and make friends not to be abused
ps2: Also yeah without knowing about the phone it is like building the empire state building. That's why you buy the phone open it up find details on the phone first off and try and figure it out without taking a long look and experimenting you will never get anywhere. It is like life without actually doing it and just saying about it you will never achieve it so you do it
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You really have no idea whatsoever as to how computer hardware works. Like the other person said, there just isn't a chance in hell of a small group of people working in their free time without the cooperation of hardware manufacturers to do what you're saying.
Look at AOSP, think of all the people working on it, and we still don't have everything working on it correctly. And that's with an open-source OS, not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
Web OS is really nice but doesn't seem very popular considering only 2 phones have it while. 10+ phones will come out with Android. I bet if this was done the person asking would use it for like a month then go to another ROM. Which means all that work trying to make drivers would go in vain.
xencor said:
You really have no idea whatsoever as to how computer hardware works. Like the other person said, there just isn't a chance in hell of a small group of people working in their free time without the cooperation of hardware manufacturers to do what you're saying.
Look at AOSP, think of all the people working on it, and we still don't have everything working on it correctly. And that's with an open-source OS, not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
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So is a small group of people not good enough look at bill gates for example creator of microsoft started of with the apple man 2 people now we have microsoft windows and apple so are you saying a small group of people can't do something amazing every now and again?
Also i do not care about webOS i hate webOS in fact i just wanted to extract my opinion and further fourth nothing is impossible look at wireless electricity about a few years ago seen as a myth now look at it. This could be done one day maybe not now but sometime in the future. Most of webOS is in java anyway and most of it is using dbus.
I thought that emulating it on a jvm may be possible? like freedsb running over the top of windows in a vm.
Also all those who port drivers from windows to linux and max to windows etc. have no help from the manafacturers and they still manage to do it and they work alone.
Im not going to voice my opinion in this thread again i have had enough with people who don't let people talk their mind all it was was an opinion nothing more and a possible chance of it working instead of it sounding like it's impossible unless you try you will never know and that is that stuff this thread i have had enough with you people i am out of here don't bother replying to this because i will not read it.
xillius200 said:
So is a small group of people not good enough look at bill gates for example creator of microsoft started of with the apple man 2 people now we have microsoft windows so youre point is?
Also i do not care about webOS i hate webOS in fact i just wanted to extract my opinion and further fourth nothing is impossible look at wireless electricity about a few years ago seen as a myth now look at it. This could be done one day maybe not now but sometime in the future.
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Do the developers on XDA have a source of revenue that I'm unaware of? Do they have billions of dollars in profits that spurn growth and encourage new, more experienced developers to join the business and help? Is there even a business at all?
The answer is no. There is no R&D department behind XDA. There is no venture capital firm supporting cyanogen or kingklick with money.
Again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't just a "take open the phone, look at the serial number on the board, and then write your own driver." This is something that computer manufacturers spend years developing their own proprietary code and then design specific chipsets to work with it. Years and money, lots and lots of money.
And you're still forgetting that webOS and even parts of android are not open sourced, which complicates it even further, even to the extent of making a webOS port technically illegal under copyright laws.
xencor said:
not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
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not 100% true, both android and WebOS run on top of the linux kernel, drivers are already written, like I said, its not a rewrite of drivers, rather interfacing with hardware may be different, but thanks to GPL, we can more easily figure out how the software interfaces with the drivers since we have drivers (albeit for some different hardware) for both Palm AND Android devices... obviously this would all be no easy task... but hell, android work tits on my Kaiser, with the radio/sms/wifi/camera/gps.... and it WASN'T designed to run android!
something else to mention I suppose is the work done to get Mer Linux (Open source replacement for Maemo) running on the Kaiser/Vogue, it booted and its X system worked enough to get to setup information, albeit the screen was too low of a res to do much and it has far too little ram to be useful... let me put it this way... it would be entirely possible for someone to port WebOS over, though the radio/BT/Wifi/accel/etc. may not work initially. I'd be stoked to try out test builds, and I think so would MANY other people.
*broken down: android wasnt meant to run on these phones, linux was meant to, and android was meant to run on top of that*
xencor said:
Do the developers on XDA have a source of revenue that I'm unaware of? Do they have billions of dollars in profits that spurn growth and encourage new, more experienced developers to join the business and help? Is there even a business at all?
The answer is no. There is no R&D department behind XDA. There is no venture capital firm supporting cyanogen or kingklick with money.
Again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't just a "take open the phone, look at the serial number on the board, and then write your own driver." This is something that computer manufacturers spend years developing their own proprietary code and then design specific chipsets to work with it. Years and money, lots and lots of money.
And you're still forgetting that webOS and even parts of android are not open sourced, which complicates it even further, even to the extent of making a webOS port technically illegal under copyright laws.
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I have already said in my earlier post that it is not open-source so read b4 you post and even the smallest one man on his own can do someting incredible look at DA cracked the psp 14-15yo and wrote his own drivers and software and look at the ps3 hacker who has found exploit through the memory neither of them have a company or backing just normal people and are you saying that is not possible?
i will not talk any longer all in all webOS is a stupid idea it could be possible one day and end of
ps: I don't like but jmhalder is cool
jmhalder said:
not 100% true, both android and WebOS run on top of the linux kernel, drivers are already written, like I said, its not a rewrite of drivers, rather interfacing with hardware may be different, but thanks to GPL, we can more easily figure out how the software interfaces with the drivers since we have drivers (albeit for some different hardware) for both Palm AND Android devices... obviously this would all be no easy task... but hell, android work tits on my Kaiser, with the radio/sms/wifi/camera/gps.... and it WASN'T designed to run android!
something else to mention I suppose is the work done to get Mer Linux (Open source replacement for Maemo) running on the Kaiser/Vogue, it booted and its X system worked enough to get to setup information, albeit the screen was too low of a res to do much and it has far too little ram to be useful... let me put it this way... it would be entirely possible for someone to port WebOS over, though the radio/BT/Wifi/accel/etc. may not work initially. I'd be stoked to try out test builds, and I think so would MANY other people.
*broken down: android wasnt meant to run on these phones, linux was meant to, and android was meant to run on top of that*
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Click to collapse
Thank you for talking some sense on the subject that it is possible thank you very much i respect you because you think anything is possible you may go far in the world. the one's who never try may never know and for that will fall behind. You are the only one on here who talks sense and for that i applaud you
ps: Very Much thanks from Xillius200 for believing it to be possible instead of just shooting it down
ps2: It takes a true person to not give up and takes a less person to give up straight away so never give up
xillius200 said:
I have already said in my earlier post that it is not open-source so read b4 you post and even the smallest one man on his own can do someting incredible look at DA cracked the psp 14-15yo and wrote his own drivers and software and look at the ps3 hacker who has found exploit through the memory neither of them have a company or backing just normal people and are you saying that is not possible?
i will not talk any longer all in all webOS is a stupid idea it could be possible one day and end of
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Click to collapse
DA did not write his own drivers. "Cracking" and using existing drivers is not nearly the same thing, nor is using a loophole in a PS3 memory chip.
Again, i'm sorry, but you just have no idea what you're talking about.
As someone else has pointed out by now, it might actually be possible to get webOS on an android phone, but that's only because the drivers already exist, not because cyanogen and XDA are gods and can do what you're proposing.
xencor said:
DA did not write his own drivers. "Cracking" and using existing drivers is not nearly the same thing, nor is using a loophole in a PS3 memory chip.
Again, i'm sorry, but you just have no idea what you're talking about.
As someone else has pointed out by now, it might actually be possible to get webOS on an android phone, but that's only because the drivers already exist, not because cyanogen and XDA are gods and can do what you're proposing.
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I am not calling them gods writing different drivers seperate to a device is possible and DA did write some of his own drivers for the psp for addons and linking to the pc. Also to gain access to the memory he had to make a device and write a driver for it that devices already came wth a driver but he wrote his own. This was a different person XD
And i have had enough i am out of here dont know why the hell we are argueing you do not know much about android either so leave it at that and keep the forum open
I here by cease this fighting going on and say good day
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
EDIT:
I'm keeping my original post above, partly because there have been too many responses to make removing it reasonable, and partly because I'd like something to review the next time I decide to try and put my thoughts out there to the community.
I never imagined that I would draw so much criticism over this post. I honestly thought I did a pretty good job of making it apparent that I truly appreciate all of the developers' work. I'm a huge fan of the Android platform and of open source projects in general. Allow me to draw a poorly crafted and weak analogy, if I may:
I love my two-year old boy dearly. He's a fantastic kid and big bright spot in my life. He has asthma, and I really do hate providing his breathing treatments. It doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the technology that allows him to breathe, and I certainly wouldn't consider trading him in for a different model without such issues. I would, however, consider venting to other parents of an asthmatic child about how laborious the process of breathing treatments is, and how unfriendly it is towards children his age.
I'm not quite sure how I managed to come across as anti-open source, anti-developer, or at all unappreciative of our dedicated developers - but apparently that's exactly what I did, so for that I apologize. What is really awful is that with one well-intended post I feel that I have ostracized myself from a community that I thoroughly enjoy supporting.
So instead of being constructive... and building a ROM of your own or simply not using them, you're complaining? No one said you have to use them. No one said you have to update all the time.
Definitely not with you.
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
crayak said:
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
You have a good point, and I have no problem waiting. I suppose I was just sharing my reflections.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I share you feelings somewhat. Thats why I picked a ROM (Cognition 2.1.6) and will stick with it until Froyo officially drops for the Captivate. I also hate having to restore a phone after a flash which is why I choose not to do it often.
vbhines said:
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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I actually agree here. But this is sort of Google's thing in a lot of areas. Google Wave, Google Buzz etc. Google MASTERS searching. And everything else they throw stuff on a wall and some sticks and some don't. I worried about that with Android from the very beginning. They often times release half finished products and then allow the devs to finish (or not in some cases) the future of the product/service.
By going to 100 different carriers in 100 different iterations google may very well stop caring about the polished product and just allow the devs to do the rest.
When I had my HTC Hero I had a Flash addiction. Now I just have decided to stick with one build and update it when updates happen. There have been quite a few VERY recent improvements. SetIron's kernel is a fine example. Stuff is happening at a much faster pace than it was when I got my phone 2 months ago. There are twice as many ROMS if not more. Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming. If we're lucky Froyo and Gingerbread will share the same kernel so porting IT won't be a big deal either.
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
rfarrah said:
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
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I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
bradasmith said:
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
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Click to collapse
+1
Thank you for saying what I was trying to, but in far fewer words.
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
I have one issue with my phone, the GPS. While I'm mad it doesn't really work it's something I NEVER use. Other than that I'm running the latest Cognition rom and couldn't be happier.
gunnyman said:
.....Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming.
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I think this is 100% the reason. I fully expect that there will be some amazing things done and some great roms released.
I don't know if it was mentioned or not already but the reason why there are so many beta versions of roms and why newer versions open up issues is for the same reason as above, no source code available. So be patient and I promise you'll be kicking yourself for making this thread.
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
i dont think apple is really copying xfce. ..macosx versions are terminal based and therefor unix like and very similar to linux. x11 window environments have been around for many year. xfce doesn't offer that much that i know of that isn't in others window managers. it is possible that the developers on all sides are taking ideas from each other, but i think since power user often have a lot of shortcuts setup to get through common tasks faster that they are implementing some of these things as presets. similarities can just as easily similar minds overcoming very common problems. granted many developers may be running alternate os's and may be inspired by the other. not that i dont believe in corperate espionage i certainly do but i think a lot of things are just obvious solutions.
the problem with phones is that the manufacturers can lock us out and the locks can be difficult to break. you are right that google doesnt own the os but the manufacturers have proprietary source along side the source that they must release because it was taken from google. at some point it makes development dificult. i think we need an emphasis on aosp to build roms from. not because i like the google software, i find it plain and ugly, but because once aosp is figured out there is more understanding of how it all fits together and ports become easier.
i just cant wait to see the day when we can custom order aosp compatible hardware and build phones based on what our priorities are and what we can afford. i know we cant actually solder the boards our selves with surface mount but it could be done on an assembly line with robots if a manufacturer decided to use them to there full potential.
vbhines said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with your more about your criticism about Samsung - but I'm not sure how this applies for Android as a whole. The closest thing you can say is Android fails to exclude poorly performing companies - but that's not much of a statement, is it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Dani897 said:
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
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Click to collapse
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EsotericPunk said:
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said Androiders!
+10
Then go wait on the sidelines for a cyanogen port. We, galaxy s phone owners. Don't and won't need huge steps beyond what we have. Your expectations are limited to what your old phone needed to perform.
You are right its silly. And unnecessary. Find a new hobby if porting roms isn't doing it for you.
vbhines said:
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
So... I'm winding down from my day, drinking a couple beers and checking XDA for anything I've missed throughout the day. Keep in mind this is my first Android, coming from crapberry... I know it hasn't been out long and there are issues with ril(which I don't know anything about)... I feel like some of the things I have found here I really like have slowed down, if not stopped. Before I get flamed, I understand there is a tremendous amount of work that goes into every Rom and theme we see. I just hope to see that at some point, this phone gets to the point we all hope it will. I'm trying to learn as much as I can and help anyone with questions my limited Android knowledge can accomplish. Feel free to use this thread to vent and rant... Let's get it all out here. Many thanks to the devs still holding strong... I'm just looking for thoughts on how far the development will go with this phoned compared to the EVO's I'm compared to everyday at work.
3 things to keep in mind:
1) CM7 is damn near stable and they're working hard on it. That said, [nearly] everybody who isn't working on CM7 is essentially waiting on the CM7 team to finish since [nearly] everybody wants an AOSP-based ROM. So why would they keep pouring tons of time into their current ROMs since they'll very soon be thrown away?
2) Google I/O. Quite a few of our favorite devs are being distracted by either attending or closely following this event.
3) End of the school year. A lot of our favorite devs are either high school or college students. And many of those who aren't have children. As such, this is a rough time of year for them.
Look at all of this and you shouldn't be all that surprised that things have slowed down for a bit. But I promise you, the TBolt will be one of the main platforms that people will be hacking for a while. We'll have CM7, we'll have MIUI, and we'll have many other custom ROMs and kernels. Just be patient while they get the RIL stable. This is the FIRST phone that has supported LTE and this is also the first phone (that I'm aware of) that has supported eHRPD - there are definitely some lessons that need to be learned, and that takes time.
bking_soda said:
So... I'm winding down from my day, drinking a couple beers and checking XDA for anything I've missed throughout the day. Keep in mind this is my first Android, coming from crapberry... I know it hasn't been out long and there are issues with ril(which I don't know anything about)... I feel like some of the things I have found here I really like have slowed down, if not stopped. Before I get flamed, I understand there is a tremendous amount of work that goes into every Rom and theme we see. I just hope to see that at some point, this phone gets to the point we all hope it will. I'm trying to learn as much as I can and help anyone with questions my limited Android knowledge can accomplish. Feel free to use this thread to vent and rant... Let's get it all out here. Many thanks to the devs still holding strong... I'm just looking for thoughts on how far the development will go with this phoned compared to the EVO's I'm compared to everyday at work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A good amount of stuff has came out with the RIL still not completed, once the RIL is completed, the flood gates will open and you will see a large amount of ROMs made.
bking_soda said:
I'm just looking for thoughts on how far the development will go with this phoned compared to the EVO's I'm compared to everyday at work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... so this is about getting compared to the EVO? You guys have pork sword fights at work too?
Hey now... Pork sword fights are saved for after work. Haha. Not comparing to the EVO, just stating that its been out much longer and had more dev time.
In addition, once 2.3 leaks, the floodgates will open again.
Hey B Soda,
I'm in the same boat as you. I loved my BB Bold dearly. So easy to pimp them girls on it. Just the simplicity of the keyboard, being able to connect with other people.
However now being on my first android, i felt that I made the switch at the right time.
With BlackBerry I felt i could write a good email and msg friends all day, but I could never ever use the browser or attempt to download anything because it really was useless.
Tbolt on the other hand, I was able to do everything that i couldn't do on my blackberry, Msging still sucks on the Tbolt, But it is way way better then trying to browse on a blackberry.
With that said, there is still something i miss about the blackberry, but honestly i couldn't be happier.
One more thing, When i first got into android i was completely loss. I have no idea what to do. It was hours and hours of mindless surfing on many different android websites. Hours of reading on root and roms.
Anyhow Android is the future. Long live Google!!!
I see it like this: the Thunderbolt is still an infant--it eats, sleeps, cries, pukes, and poops. When it gets more mature, it can crawl, walk, talk, and more! It just needs some TLC and patience!
It hasn't even been 2 months. It took a whole month if not more I believe to root the Incredible if I remember correctly. Learn some patience people.
You can't compare this phone to the EVO, the EVO has been out for almost a year now.
I gotta agree with the OP.
Development seems to be at a stand still. I understand most developers are waiting for the ril to be completed. But, while we're waiting other phones will be released and developers will start to look towards that phone for development support. I think we'll be left behind. And it really does seem like only 2 developers are working on getting the ril, but when the G2 was rooted it seemed like all of team douche was working to get the ASOP ROM up and running. With the Thunderbolt it's more like team Slayer. Progress was made quickly with the G2 and other devices. Quickly even with team douche building for all devices at once.
I'm not slapping other developers in the face. I'm currently running adrynalyne build, and I like. Great battery life. But I want the speed and stability other devices have with CM7. I really do appreciate the having the support we currently have. And I've donated to the developers of my choice in support of their work.
Coming from the OG Droid, I noticed that many ROMs are based on CM. So we WILL see many more roms.
I can assure you we will get 2.3.4 sometime in the future especially since HTC "promised" that we'll get some kind of 2.3 version. 3.1 was announced at Google I/O, but that probably won't happen until mid next year for us (if we are lucky).
This is the first Verizon 4g phone. The ril is brand new to all. The phone will take off when the ril is polished and released.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I would pay money just to get a virus rom update
i can't wait til they send me my sim card for the tbolt
While I don't have a Thunderbolt and I'm still rocking an OG Droid, I do believe I can say something about this.
I suspect that a lot of people share in these sentiments, myself included. But I believe the reason why is because so many people were amazed at the community that developed after the Droid 1 was released. The Motorola Droid really revolutionized the Android ecosystem. With Android 2.0, Android changed big-time. The Droid (and Android 2.0) was leaps and bounds over anything that had predated it in the Android world, and there was all sorts of development options that opened up with the creation of that new phone.
Unfortunately, I believe that the days of new findings and developments like in the days and weeks in November and December '09 are gone for good, and won't be matched by anything in the near future in the Android world. New phones will come and go, the Thunderbolt included. There will be big-time phones (again, like the Thunderbolt) that people will naturally be attracted to, and those will be the centers of development for the community for a good period of time. But I don't believe you will ever again see a surge in development like you saw for the Motorola Droid.
There is definitely still plenty of development going on in a community like this. It just doesn't seem like as much as there was in the Android community in the past, and it definitely wasn't as much. But I don't think we can ever match those numbers again, so don't let that comparison get you down.
Smok3d said:
A good amount of stuff has came out with the RIL still not completed, once the RIL is completed, the flood gates will open and you will see a large amount of ROMs made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully agree with what you said. So far there has been some really good to great stuff but I feel personally this is only the beginning of what potential lies within what could be done with ROMs on the Thunderbolt. I can't wait for the RIL to be finished.
I got my OG Droid in Nov. 09 and I personally do not think ROM development was the golden age like you are so fondly remembering. Verizon's first android phone brought a lot of new people to android. It still took quite awhile for community to evolve.
People seem spoiled now ... TB is new tech, we need to give it time. The Devs are bringing out some very Nice sense based ROMs and AOSP will follow... give it time.
"Is dinner ready yet?!" No. "Is it ready yet?!" No. "How about now?!" No. *shoe to the head* "Ow! What the hell was that for?!"
You get the picture. This is exactly what you guys are doing here but it won't be a shoe that you'll get to the side of your head, you'll have pushed a good developer or two away and then you'll really be crying.
Btw, first paragraph is a true story. Actually happened to me a few times.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
jab476 said:
I would pay money just to get a virus rom update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers, I'm thinking the same thing...
ddgarcia05 said:
I gotta agree with the OP.
Development seems to be at a stand still. I understand most developers are waiting for the ril to be completed. But, while we're waiting other phones will be released and developers will start to look towards that phone for development support. I think we'll be left behind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So how, exactly, do you expect other LTE devices to leave us left behind? EVERY SINGLE Verizon LTE device will build upon what is done for the RIL with the Thunderbolt. If anything, add'l LTE devices coming will actually HELP the Thunderbolt community! At some point, yeah, we'll move past the Thunderbolt. But that won't be until multi-core phones blow single-core phones away. And we're not close to there yet. Perhaps Ice Cream Sandwich will make that a reality (we hope) and that's still 7(?) months away!
Okay so I was just wondering are we EVER going to get ICS or GB offical or unoffical the development on this phone leaves a lot to be desired what is stopping ppl from making a cm7 rom instead of 2.2 froyo I'm not flaming or trying to be rude sorry if I come off that way I'm just curious
Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk
Franzferdinan51 said:
Okay so I was just wondering are we EVER going to get ICS or GB offical or unoffical the development on this phone leaves a lot to be desired what is stopping ppl from making a cm7 rom instead of 2.2 froyo I'm not flaming or trying to be rude sorry if I come off that way I'm just curious
Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will probably never be a gb or ics Tom's for this phone...
The lack of creativity is stopping people from making cm7 ports, some one just needs to backwards engineer the Samsung drivers. Let me make that clear, backwards engineer, not wait for source code to be released. They are two totally different things altogether. People on this thread will tell you otherwise.
Oh so were waiting on devs to get down basically no ambishon (sp?) That sucks jumped in to a great phone with no potential wee here I come CL
Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk
Part of it is also the general attitude. I"m going to be honest here... I see a mix of pro active people with the talent and skill who have done great within the scope of their skills and their willingness to even want to contribute. Their work I appreciate greatly, but then I read allot of negative nellies who seem to complain and bicker more than actually contribute. Yea it's frustrating with samsung/tmo being stingy *****es but screws it, keep moving forward regardless. Looks like option B (reverse engineering) appears to be the only viable option at this point. Thus my bounty I have posted elsewhere.
Frankly i'm just glad to have a device that works, and lucky enough to not be bound to pure stock with no root.
Always said I'd pitch to a serious interest in romming GB on the phone.
Until then, I love Glorious Overdose.
BTW, I think we can give up on any official ICS release. GB is as far as we'll get.
So, I'm going to sacrifice my free time to reverse engineer compiled code (and dig through the resulting bytecode) and port over a new OS because... ...
There's no money in it and I'm doing fine with my own modded Froyo KJ2. Why bother?
Tell you what, you head off and get yourself a CS degree and take care of it yourself, ok?
You know, dealing with obfuscated bytecode is difficult and time consuming. Frankly, I don't want to invest the time and trouble; I don't even see a good reason to bother.
The independently wealthy or bored nerds are all busy with fancier and sexier devices. I guess you need to get one.
There's the facts. The truth is, most people that are developing for the platform are working on apps and trying to scratch out a living.
LOLOLOL
Reverse engineering drivers & getting the source code are the same thing.
It just takes genius level skills to take a compiled binary to uncompiled son.
---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------
orange808 said:
So, I'm going to sacrifice my free time to reverse engineer compiled code (and dig through the resulting bytecode) and port over a new OS because... ...
There's no money in it and I'm doing fine with my own modded Froyo KJ2. Why bother?
Tell you what, you head off and get yourself a CS degree and take care of it yourself, ok?
You know, dealing with obfuscated bytecode is difficult and time consuming. Frankly, I don't want to invest the time and trouble; I don't even see a good reason to bother.
The independently wealthy or bored nerds are all busy with fancier and sexier devices. I guess you need to get one.
There's the facts. The truth is, most people that are developing for the platform are working on apps and trying to scratch out a living.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much this. +1
Let me know if you need a blowjob man. I know how lonely it is to have a CS degree. <3
orange808 said:
So, I'm going to sacrifice my free time to reverse engineer compiled code (and dig through the resulting bytecode) and port over a new OS because... ...
There's no money in it and I'm doing fine with my own modded Froyo KJ2. Why bother?
Tell you what, you head off and get yourself a CS degree and take care of it yourself, ok?
You know, dealing with obfuscated bytecode is difficult and time consuming. Frankly, I don't want to invest the time and trouble; I don't even see a good reason to bother.
The independently wealthy or bored nerds are all busy with fancier and sexier devices. I guess you need to get one.
There's the facts. The truth is, most people that are developing for the platform are working on apps and trying to scratch out a living.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See that's where you are wrong, have you ever seen the bounty thread? They are offering a good amount of money for someone to do this.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA App
We won't get a port till a official version come's out.
Hi.
What kind of power we can have if we will make petition to Samsung software/developement team to do some updates of Android to our phone?
How many users are here that have this awesome mobile?
I always think is good idea to try than moan...
I e-mailed Yotaphone and asked if they would consider making a qwerty slider....
I think it would be beneficial if we all did the same.
It is not my intention, to find new device.
I am fed up going for new.
Old is good enough many times.
Our mobile is enough for emails, www etc. but the only downside is software.
It's not going to happen. Both the carrier (T-Mobile) and Samsung would need to agree that it's worth spending a lot of money to give this phone an upgrade. Given that both companies want you to buy a new phone every 5 minutes, neither of them want people to be satisfied with their old phone. And speaking of old, this phone is almost 3 years old and has a small user base. There are hundreds of more popular phones released between then and now which haven't seen updates, so no one's going to pay much attention to ours. The only way to get updates is to make them ourselves.
If we don't try - we will never know for sure.
How many registered users are in Relay section, can anybody check?
Check in
I am in business!
Here!
Sent from my SGH-T699 using XDA Free mobile app
I'm still using mine, but it's really a secondary phone at this point. Given that the flex cable is this phone's Achilles heel, I don't slide the keyboard out very often, either.
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
doitright said:
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to learn how to code but no one really has time to teach and i know there are plenty of guides but I'm afraid I'll kill my phone. I've already managed to kill my usb port, not from coding attempts, but nonetheless inoperable. As for donating, the relay is my only working t mobile phone so I don't want to give it up. I would, however would pitch in on one. From what I've seen they go for about 100 or so. I would like to be part of the solution in any way I can.
Another Relay user here...
Since this is one of the last good QWERTY phones around, figured it was time to stop just lurking this forum and sign up lol. I'd also be willing to test any new 5.x ROMs built, since I'll have an alternate phone in a couple of days that I can fall back to if I break this one.
I have a phone and I can code, however I need somebody who give me clue or some direction to follow. I've never coded for hardware, only business apps.
This one is not gonna be cheap, but if it runs android it will be amazing:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/02/blackberry-venice-slider-leak/
Wow! Extremely cool, man! Thanks for the info