Related
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
EDIT:
I'm keeping my original post above, partly because there have been too many responses to make removing it reasonable, and partly because I'd like something to review the next time I decide to try and put my thoughts out there to the community.
I never imagined that I would draw so much criticism over this post. I honestly thought I did a pretty good job of making it apparent that I truly appreciate all of the developers' work. I'm a huge fan of the Android platform and of open source projects in general. Allow me to draw a poorly crafted and weak analogy, if I may:
I love my two-year old boy dearly. He's a fantastic kid and big bright spot in my life. He has asthma, and I really do hate providing his breathing treatments. It doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the technology that allows him to breathe, and I certainly wouldn't consider trading him in for a different model without such issues. I would, however, consider venting to other parents of an asthmatic child about how laborious the process of breathing treatments is, and how unfriendly it is towards children his age.
I'm not quite sure how I managed to come across as anti-open source, anti-developer, or at all unappreciative of our dedicated developers - but apparently that's exactly what I did, so for that I apologize. What is really awful is that with one well-intended post I feel that I have ostracized myself from a community that I thoroughly enjoy supporting.
So instead of being constructive... and building a ROM of your own or simply not using them, you're complaining? No one said you have to use them. No one said you have to update all the time.
Definitely not with you.
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
crayak said:
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
You have a good point, and I have no problem waiting. I suppose I was just sharing my reflections.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I share you feelings somewhat. Thats why I picked a ROM (Cognition 2.1.6) and will stick with it until Froyo officially drops for the Captivate. I also hate having to restore a phone after a flash which is why I choose not to do it often.
vbhines said:
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I actually agree here. But this is sort of Google's thing in a lot of areas. Google Wave, Google Buzz etc. Google MASTERS searching. And everything else they throw stuff on a wall and some sticks and some don't. I worried about that with Android from the very beginning. They often times release half finished products and then allow the devs to finish (or not in some cases) the future of the product/service.
By going to 100 different carriers in 100 different iterations google may very well stop caring about the polished product and just allow the devs to do the rest.
When I had my HTC Hero I had a Flash addiction. Now I just have decided to stick with one build and update it when updates happen. There have been quite a few VERY recent improvements. SetIron's kernel is a fine example. Stuff is happening at a much faster pace than it was when I got my phone 2 months ago. There are twice as many ROMS if not more. Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming. If we're lucky Froyo and Gingerbread will share the same kernel so porting IT won't be a big deal either.
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
rfarrah said:
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
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Click to collapse
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
bradasmith said:
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Thank you for saying what I was trying to, but in far fewer words.
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
I have one issue with my phone, the GPS. While I'm mad it doesn't really work it's something I NEVER use. Other than that I'm running the latest Cognition rom and couldn't be happier.
gunnyman said:
.....Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is 100% the reason. I fully expect that there will be some amazing things done and some great roms released.
I don't know if it was mentioned or not already but the reason why there are so many beta versions of roms and why newer versions open up issues is for the same reason as above, no source code available. So be patient and I promise you'll be kicking yourself for making this thread.
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
i dont think apple is really copying xfce. ..macosx versions are terminal based and therefor unix like and very similar to linux. x11 window environments have been around for many year. xfce doesn't offer that much that i know of that isn't in others window managers. it is possible that the developers on all sides are taking ideas from each other, but i think since power user often have a lot of shortcuts setup to get through common tasks faster that they are implementing some of these things as presets. similarities can just as easily similar minds overcoming very common problems. granted many developers may be running alternate os's and may be inspired by the other. not that i dont believe in corperate espionage i certainly do but i think a lot of things are just obvious solutions.
the problem with phones is that the manufacturers can lock us out and the locks can be difficult to break. you are right that google doesnt own the os but the manufacturers have proprietary source along side the source that they must release because it was taken from google. at some point it makes development dificult. i think we need an emphasis on aosp to build roms from. not because i like the google software, i find it plain and ugly, but because once aosp is figured out there is more understanding of how it all fits together and ports become easier.
i just cant wait to see the day when we can custom order aosp compatible hardware and build phones based on what our priorities are and what we can afford. i know we cant actually solder the boards our selves with surface mount but it could be done on an assembly line with robots if a manufacturer decided to use them to there full potential.
vbhines said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with your more about your criticism about Samsung - but I'm not sure how this applies for Android as a whole. The closest thing you can say is Android fails to exclude poorly performing companies - but that's not much of a statement, is it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Dani897 said:
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EsotericPunk said:
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said Androiders!
+10
Then go wait on the sidelines for a cyanogen port. We, galaxy s phone owners. Don't and won't need huge steps beyond what we have. Your expectations are limited to what your old phone needed to perform.
You are right its silly. And unnecessary. Find a new hobby if porting roms isn't doing it for you.
vbhines said:
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I never flashed this ROM, though I must admit that it did look interesting feature/graphic wise.
It's sad to cease development on an open source compilation of code.. that's why even the renowned Design Gears is happily posting his source to his github
I do admit that with the push of android to the young populous, there's a lot of *young* android adopters.. consequence being the immaturity and inconsideration of spreading pirated software, leaking releases, and the lost of respect instilled in the media today towards the youngsters.
Respect is what parents should be raising their children with, not some TVs and Gameboys.
Bowsa2511 said:
I never flashed this ROM, though I must admit that it did look interesting feature/graphic wise.
It's sad to cease development on an open source compilation of code.. that's why even the renowned Design Gears is happily posting his source to his github
I do admit that with the push of android to the young populous, there's a lot of *young* android adopters.. consequence being the immaturity and inconsideration of spreading pirated software, leaking releases, and the lost of respect instilled in the media today towards the youngsters.
Respect is what parents should be raising their children with, not some TVs and Gameboys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+10...............................
sigh, I really liked Axura ROM and their dedication. I think I'm done with flashing since this amount of drama detracts from all the collegial spirit that should be present in this type of activity.
yeah i have axura and i'm happy with it at this point. i am going to live in denial for a while and keep checking back hoping they change their tune and start dev'ing again
It was the best
I loved this ROM and not to be too harsh, but whoever thought that would ever be okay is just a......ill keep it G rated, but yea! Seriously, its not your work and you have been asked not to post it or use it w/o express permission! I am glad to hear that they have been banned from the forums (via Master's Twitter) but seriously let this be a lesson to all of XDA, respect peoples work. Especially the people who are taking our phones from okay to the best out there! This is just rude and I am really hoping the XDA community learns from this and from here on out keeps flaming and crap like this to a minimum. Dev's can disagree and people can have their differences but that does not trump respect, and on that note if your not a Dev(which I am not) then lay off the devs a little, give them ideas/feedback but dont piss all over their work if something isnt exactly right. For the love they are building these ROMs from scraps and leaked incomplete releases! If you cant fix it yourself.....don't complain just let the Dev know and HOLD YOUR HAPPY .... ON UNTIL THEY FIX IT!
P.S. Dont know if hansmrtn will read this but if you do then thank you for standing up for us and trying to let Master agree to release the newest version to us! You rock, you didnt have to try but you did anyway. Thanks!
hey sorry guys i know this is like a super noob question and i may get flamed for this but im willing to accept that lol but from reading all this i have one main question: does this mean i cant get Axura anymore from anywhere? i dont even have my Captivate yet but i should be getting it on Monday but im planning to go straight to a ROM from the get go and i was planning to use Axura but now after reading all this im pretty sad. i know i could go with Perception v7 but id still much rather get Axura, is there any way i can still get it?
hey man
Yea as of now all Auxra Roms are gone. People probably have them on their computer but no one should, esp after this post them or give them up. Sorry man!
ice3186 said:
Yea as of now all Auxra Roms are gone. People probably have them on their computer but no one should
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Click to collapse
love the axura rom..glad i was able to hop on the bandwagon while i could
There are a lot of people who get rubbed the wrong way on here. I have to admit sometimes it gets pretty bad. But I also find it refreshing that the mods don't really step in to often to clean things up.
One thing i don't get is the mindset of a rom dev. I was under the impression that they have the device and have the abilities to make it better then what it is. I always thought them sharing it was a gift. With that being said i would think they would listen to suggestions but ultimately they make what they want, we are along for the ride.
I know if i were making something for myself and then sharing it to the world, I wouldn't give two poops what anyone has to say because it was made for me and to each his own.
As per releasing betas or alphas... your always going to have pirates, jerks and people who want some fame. It happens. That is why companies have nda's. Just find yourself 4 or 5 trustworthy chaps and dev dev dev!
These roms should be made for self gratification, not for kudos from xda members. You will always get crap for your hard work.
that is my piece, you may not agree.
This is a kick in the nuts to those who donated to hansmrtn, this whole fiasco had nothing to do with the captivate rom, so for him to seize development makes no sense.
This my friends....has made me so much more cautious in my donation.
I donate because I feel that it is important to show those people that do this on their free spare time, should feel like they are being appreciated for their time and work.
But their is a catch to this, if you are willing to ask for donation to a community that your a member of, I believe YOU are obligated to show some sort "code of ethics". I want to feel that I have donated to a cause of future development and support.
NOT....
News: D4A is closing at the end of the month due to the disrespect from several XDA members
I will not post the link to the website. Deserves NO recognition.
Really...? This is what your gonna give me for an explanation for why my donation on good faith was wasted! Childish.
Bad business, shows that your maturity level for this community has showed it's true colors, selfish and lack of respect for one self.
Am I asking for a refund, by all means, no. Seems like you need the money more than I do.
Am I being a little harsh, no. You have to understand, you have to look at this more on a business stand point. You advertise the donation button, which basically asking for peoples hard earn money, and you take it away just like that (doesn't matter if it is for 1 cent, still wasn't your money to begin with), ...and you feel disrespected...? Come back and ask the community the same please.
Just note that you let a lot more people down than people that you feel that disrespected you. But we'll still call the kettle black...
That's my 2 cents, back to seeing whats new.
Tried following the excuses given for pulling development on this rom. I get it that things happen and are said on this forum that are not respectful, but the greater good of the commity should out way a couple bad apples. Still using the rom. Will do so till I am bored. Allot of drama in the last couple of days
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
As far as the reasons goes some people are dicks, life sucks, get over it.
The reaction is a slap in the face to all the donators and hansmrtn.
In the open source world, when this **** happens the way forward is to fork and move on.
All too often I've seen the devs at XDA get disrespected. And I see it way too much, these folks put countless hours into what we reap the benefits of. It's not their jobs, and if it was their jobs, then the disrespect becomes a bit more "tolerable". But it's on their free time they make our devices better than anything the manufacturers could produce.
As far as Axura and the devs involved in it. I felt they did some truly amazing stuff. It was brilliant work, and as it moved along it was getting really exciting to see it get better and better. I was thrilled at where it was going, it made me want to contribute to it, not in money, but in my own abilities.
The thread was a really great place. After the dev change, I can say I only saw 1 person get a bit out of line. There wasn't the bashing and BS from people coming down on noobs. It was refreshing to see for a change. Hopefully the people moving from Axura to the other ROM threads out there will carry on this to their new ROMS
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this ROM. Both in the development and in the feed back to the devs, who could then make it better for all of us
Can someone explain me in a short what exactly happened. I have red the convo with but I don't get what exactly happened. Since I switched to nexus one this forum is going nuts!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
mac208x said:
Can someone explain me in a short what exactly happened. I have red the convo with but I don't get what exactly happened. Since I switched to nexus one this forum is going nuts!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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I'll let Urban Dictionary do the talking:
"I'm going to take my ball and go home!"
"I want to be in control of the situation and if I can't then no one is going to be allowed to be happy about the outcome."
The expression comes from the playground where one kid, the one who owns the soccer ball or basket ball, doesn't get his way in the game. If he doesn't get his way then he gets mad and punishes those who are unwilling to accept his mandate. He does this my taking his ball and going home thus ending the game and any fun the participants were having.
The expression "I'm going to take my ball and go home" when directed at an individual is used to illustrate the individual's immaturity when that person can't get his way and no longer wants to be a participant in the conversation or a contributor to solving a problem.
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^^ I agree, it seemed like the issue was more about removing axura from XDA as the one individual wanted it to be exclusive to his website.
Also, it appears it is closing up because of sheer frustration. As a web host you cant be so quick to quit!
A ROM will be leaked, do you see AT&T stopping the development of FROYO because we are all spreading it around like wild fire? No.
Good thing I downloaded the rom a day before it was taken down.
After reading the convo, I was just like WTF, really?
Yeah, devs deserve respect. No one can argue otherwise. They make these roms in their free time, hoping to please themselves and other people by sharing it here. They don't have to do it, yet they still do even though other members give em **** for it.
Now, as to what Master did.
Let me ask you this question. (If you read this.)
Did you REALLY expect nobody to give you **** for your work? Were you really so NAIVE to believe that there would be no piraters, leakers, etc.? Do you REALLY think it's fair to punish YOURSELF and EVERYBODY ELSE around you just because one or two people disrespected your work?
Unfortunately, this life can be unfair. Deal with it. There will be immature douchebags that will disrespect you. That's just how life is.
What you have done is highly immature. Now hans can't develop the CE Axura anymore even AFTER he put so much work into it. Is that not disrespect? What about all those who donated to you, you just leave them in the dust just because one or two people disrespected you?
Anyways, that was my 2 cents.
Of course, being the dev, he can do whatever he wants with his rom. Remove it, put it up, it's all up to him, and, like I said, devs do this on their free time and we have no right to be disrespectful to them or to demand anything from them.
I think it was due to how it was handled which is why Master wanted it removed from XDA. However, that's not fair to Hans as he put alot of time and effort into it and he didn't want to shut it down. If anything, I think Hans should be able to release it here because it had little to nothing to do with this fiasco.
I understand why Master pulled it but sheltering it won't don't anything but hurt the rom due to very little exposure. I hope that Hans continues to dev whether it be Axura or something else.
MikeyMike01 said:
I'll let Urban Dictionary do the talking:
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^^^QFMFT!!!
I spent all day trying to get a PC to flash Odin finally get it load up this ROM and what happens? It gets removed in a manner that even my kid thinks is hella immature. I feel bad for Hans because of all of the hardwork he put into it after the last feet stomping tantrum....or so I've heard. I'm just disappointed in the whole thing..
http://m.gizmodo.com/5831176/steve-kondike-cyanogen-of-cyanogenmod-fame-joins-samsung-mobile
This post brought to you by Voodoo.
So how are we supposed to get Cyanogen now? Oh wait, there are teams I really hope this means better Samsung roms...and rejected poopie UIs.
Sent from my Droid Charge running GummyFroyo 1.9.1
Awesomeness and congratulations to Cyanogenman!!
kvswim said:
So how are we supposed to get Cyanogen now? Oh wait, there are teams I really hope this means better Samsung roms...and rejected poopie UIs.
Sent from my Droid Charge running GummyFroyo 1.9.1
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I am sure he will get his fair share of "licks" in, but I seriously doubt they will let one guy dictate every decision related to the UI for Samsung devices. That would be nice, but I seriously doubt that is the case. This definitely can't hurt though.
When you work for a big organization like that you aren't given the freedom to do things like you can accomplish on your own, doing it your own way.
xceebeex said:
I am sure he will get his fair share of "licks" in, but I seriously doubt they will let one guy dictate every decision related to the UI for Samsung devices. That would be nice, but I seriously doubt that is the case. This definitely can't hurt though.
When you work for a big organization like that you aren't given the freedom to do things like you can accomplish on your own, doing it your own way.
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What they should make him is the lead developer. Give him four weeks with a team of 4 or 6 and it would be the most awesome thing ever for an Android phone.
I think we need to understand who was there before him. A whole bunch of people who are working for the money? Cyanogen is doing what he is doing (previously) for a hobby and donations. Those other folks probably don't "put their hearts in to it" like hopefully he will.
I hope they give him the lead to make stuff work like a champ.
Khanusma said:
What they should make him is the lead developer. Give him four weeks with a team of 4 or 6 and it would be the most awesome thing ever for an Android phone.
I think we need to understand who was there before him. A whole bunch of people who are working for the money? Cyanogen is doing what he is doing (previously) for a hobby and donations. Those other folks probably don't "put their hearts in to it" like hopefully he will.
I hope they give him the lead to make stuff work like a champ.
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Yes, but now he is doing this for money since they hired him. He will follow their rules or not have a job to support him being able to do the things he enjoys doing for donations. I guarantee you that he had a real job prior to being hired by Samsung because donations don't support someone.
I am not trying to sound negative, because like I said, this can only help but I think people need to understand that he alone will not convert TouchWiz to CM7, etc.
Converting TouchWiz to CM7 isn't the plan, anyways, as he said CM7 remains an unaffiliated side project.
Still, no matter how you slice it, this can only be seen as a good thing. It doesn't even matter why he's doing it -- the simple fact is, he's one of the most respected and talented Android developers in the world. If any single hire can make a difference, he's it.
When I bought my first Infuse back in July i was pretty excited to learn how to use it and get into developing for Android. It was my first Android phone so I didn't know enough to know that I was buying Samsung's red headed step child. Since then I've been working on learning the various ins and outs of the phone. I've read all the posts in the Infuse forums, and looked through the githubs of the various amazing dev's who have worked so hard to give us the awesome roms we have. I feel pretty comfortable with the phone, and I'm still excited to take things to the next level.
Yet I can't help but feel discouraged. I have very few doubts about my ability to get ICS working on the Infuse, but I'm getting pretty tired of seeing nothing but naysaying from the last wave of experienced dev's. Obviously there are going to be hurdles, but how about offering encouragement to those of us who haven't given up yet? Isn't XDA about making the impossible happen? I have other phones I could focus on. I bought a Nexus 4G so I could learn how ICS AOSP is supposed to work and look before I bothered trying to blindly get it running on the Infuse. It is a ton of fun developing for that phone and I've already been able to do some pretty nifty things. I bought an sgs2 so that I could have a phone that had current dev work being done on it. I bought a rezound so that I could have a good solid daily driver (man I love that phone). In spite of all that, it is the Infuse that I want to do dev work for because it was my first love, and because it will be a fun challenge.
I just don't know if it is worth the effort any more. Are there enough positive people still left here that I would want to care about? I'm going to work on the phone regardless, but as it stands now, I don't see anything to gain from continuing to grow to be a part of this community.
I keep reading that things can't be done because we don't have the right drivers, or the right sources, or bad sources or etc etc. Is it true that it can't be done at all? Or is it true that it can't be done because no one wants to (or can) put in the amount of time that it will take to get things working?
Meh, you cant get something down with out the right equipment, the equipment being the codes, drivers, and sources. it could be possibly done, but you got to understand that the people who dev for this phone, got lives too. they cant just be stuck to a computer trying to get something to work.
Put it like this... we have an amazing hardware... we have software ready to be used... but we don't have the interfacing unit with us... and this is what is holding back the devs
If it is just a matter of time then great. Obviously it takes time to write the right drivers/driver wrappers etc etc. That just isn't the tone of most of the posts. "It can't be done" tends to be what it is said.
jefffeely said:
If it is just a matter of time then great. Obviously it takes time to write the right drivers/driver wrappers etc etc. That just isn't the tone of most of the posts. "It can't be done" tends to be what it is said.
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Drivers can't be written without documentation.
That's the problem - there are a lot of proprietary binary blobs required to support various hardware, for which there is no documentation. Reverse engineering these would be hundreds of hours of effort.
See Bluetooth on CM7 as an example.
Entropy512 said:
Drivers can't be written without documentation.
That's the problem - there are a lot of proprietary binary blobs required to support various hardware, for which there is no documentation. Reverse engineering these would be hundreds of hours of effort.
See Bluetooth on CM7 as an example.
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I agree with this. But given that we already have CM7, shouldn't we be able to look at that code and use it to translate to the changes in ICS? I'm not being able to describe very well what I'm thinking. Something like using the CM7 code as a HAL?
its a crapshoot maybe it will work out like cm7. maybe it wont. I wish you luck. Im simply not a programmer. if I was I'd offer help. it depends a lot on what can and can't be used or adapted from gingerbread.
Entropy512 said:
... Reverse engineering these would be hundreds of hours of effort....
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So you're saying there's a chance. --Lloyd Christmas.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Should we pool in for an AOSP ICS build for the skyrocket? Whichever dev comes up with it, gets the cash.
To Developers : PM me and i'll give you the details on how it's going to be ran. I've got a rough draft of a guideline that I think will get a lot of people to donate for the cause.
Update : If I get this up and running, there are going to be some pretty cool, exclusive and interactive things that only backers of this program will experience while the developer works on the roms!
Few facts :
I will not have access to the money raised
If the goal is not met, you will get your money back
The community will choose the winner
Exclusive early access for users who donate
Would that be the first AOSP that works 100% without bugs or the one that is full of little bugs or the one that is delivered half working.
Or maybe the first one that is promised days before it's delivered?
I'd pitch in $5-10 for this. (no idea what a normal contribution would be)
ojx said:
Should we pool in for an AOSP ICS build for the skyrocket? Whichever dev comes up with it, gets the cash.
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Your to new to know this bountys are frownd upon donations are fine and all but bountys are bad juju
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
CZ Eddie said:
Would that be the first AOSP that works 100% without bugs or the one that is full of little bugs or the one that is delivered half working.
Or maybe the first one that is promised days before it's delivered?
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Works 100%. Minor bugs are okay. The community will decide which dev will get the lump-sum based on best functionality and fluidity of the AOSP rom
edgex said:
I'd pitch in $5-10 for this. (no idea what a normal contribution would be)
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That would be great.
nrm5110 said:
Your to new to know this bountys are frownd upon donations are fine and all but bountys are bad juju
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I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time comprehending you. I'm not new to this board, just never made an account until January. Previous bounties might've gone bad due to bad management. But as long as it's managed properly and have a well thought-out guidelines, I can guarantee it will work.
ojx said:
Works 100%. Minor bugs are okay. The community will decide which dev will get the lump-sum based on best functionality and fluidity of the AOSP rom
That would be great.
I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time comprehending you. I'm not new to this board, just never made an account until January. Previous bounties might've gone bad due to bad management. But as long as it's managed properly and have a well thought-out guidelines, I can guarantee it will work.
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ok guy if you think your the first evil genius and gods gift to the human mind why rush something that's actively being worked on mostly by a group how about patience I know you noobs are bad with that concept but whatever kid waste your money as you see fit me I'll stick to using my money not on the first but the best
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
nrm5110 said:
ok guy if you think your the first evil genius and gods gift to the human mind why rush something that's actively being worked on mostly by a group how about patience I know you noobs are bad with that concept but whatever kid waste your money as you see fit me I'll stick to using my money not on the first but the best
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I'm not saying I'm some genius trying to take over the game. I know it requires quality time to make something perfect and I'm not trying to change that. You do have to agree if there is a great reward in the end, people will try their best to get it. If you're here to shed some negativity, that's your free-will, I'm not here to stop you. As for money being wasted, there will be none. This fundraiser will only generate interest with the developers and boost productivity thus creating the final piece of work in a timely manner. All the proceeds will go to the winning developer and I will not take ANY cut from it. Say what you will, but I'm only trying for the best of the Skyrocket community.
ojx said:
I'm not saying I'm some genius trying to take over the game. I know it requires quality time to make something perfect and I'm not trying to change that. You do have to agree if there is a great reward in the end, people will try their best to get it. If you're here to shed some negativity, that's your free-will, I'm not here to stop you. As for money being wasted, there will be none. This fundraiser will only generate interest with the developers and boost productivity thus creating the final piece of work in a timely manner. All the proceeds will go to the winning developer and I will not take ANY cut from it. Say what you will, but I'm only trying for the best of the Skyrocket community.
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I'm not trying to shoot you down bro just saying in the past these things have gone bad at one point mods were squashing these before they could start. The problem is that these guys already do this on their own time on top of having familys, scool, jobs, etc. If you really wanna bolster development buy the guys doing this a beer a bounty never improves quality while speeding things up it just speeds things up with a bare minimum quality I know you have provisions and such but still id say find a dev you trust throw a few his way and watch I don't speak from ignorance good sir only from experience
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
Good thought!
But I feel like you clearly do not know the purpose or the theme of XDA Community! Most of the devs and themers work on their project part time and do not ask for money its their hobby! And most of the devs hate when they are being asked for ETAS! So Good Luck On Your thought!
appdroid said:
Good thought!
But I feel like you clearly do not know the purpose or the theme of XDA Community! Most of the devs and themers work on their project part time and do not ask for money its their hobby! And most of the devs hate when they are being asked for ETAS! So Good Luck On Your thought!
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Appdroid you sir always pop in at wonderful moments
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
appdroid said:
Good thought!
But I feel like you clearly do not know the purpose or the theme of XDA Community! Most of the devs and themers work on their project part time and do not ask for money its their hobby! And most of the devs hate when they are being asked for ETAS! So Good Luck On Your thought!
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I understand this. I understand that they have busy lives and this is something they do on a part time. This will only happen during a short period of time and they will be rewarded for their hard work. I'm only here to try gather the reward for their hard work. It's not everyday that you get paid for something you love doing on your own time. While I understand some devs hate questions regarding ETAs but something in this case, they surely will be rewarded and have fun in the process. I have some very interesting plans for this and only want nothing but the best outcome for the Skyrocket community.
The way I'm going to run this should be a fun experience for people who are donating to this cause!
I have messaged 5 developers about this idea. Depending on their feedback, I will either go forth or scrap the idea altogether. No harm done. I do appreciate nrm5110 and your concerns though.
ojx said:
I understand this. I understand that they have busy lives and this is something they do on a part time. This will only happen during a short period of time and they will be rewarded for their hard work. I'm only here to try gather the reward for their hard work. It's not everyday that you get paid for something you love doing on your own time. While I understand some devs hate questions regarding ETAs but something in this case, they surely will be rewarded and have fun in the process. I have some very interesting plans for this and only want nothing but the best outcome for the Skyrocket community.
The way I'm going to run this should be a fun experience for people who are donating to this cause!
I have messaged 5 developers about this idea. Depending on their feedback, I will either go forth or scrap the idea altogether. No harm done. I do appreciate nrm5110 and your concerns though.
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I appologize if I insulted you but I just wanted you to be aware man you know what your doing if the devs are cool then by all means
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
It's okay. The end goal (I hope) is that we, Skyrocket users, will have a smooth running AOSP ICS build! It's a win-win for both devs and the community!
As long as the community has the same desire for an AOSP build as much as I do then there isn't any doubt that this will work out. You don't know how much I HATE TouchWiz. The hate has been refueled ever since I flashed the leaked ICS build. There's no way out for us ICS users right now.
How about this, just an idea. Get a dev who is willing to make Aosp for Skyrocket and get him a skyrocket! Just like what we did for other two devs! Like t989 ppl got raver a t989 and now he is working on aosp. Let's get a dev from other section!
i also would chip in, but i wouldnt trust someone with 53 posts...sorry, i just need someone with a little more rep, unless you set something up that wouldnt involve you having the money
He was one of the 5 dev I've contacted. Since giving the devs a skyrocket in previous cases (as you have stated) has not really worked, this program will get a final build within a month and a half of time with (hopefully) a bigger payout in the end.
polish_pat said:
i also would chip in, but i wouldnt trust someone with 53 posts...sorry, i just need someone with a little more rep, unless you set something up that would involve you having the money
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I will have something set up where I won't have access to the money (no paypal or other shady outlets). I understand your concerns and I already have devised a strategy to give the users who donate confidence that this program is not a scam. Like I've stated before in this thread, participating users who donate will get interactive exclusive access throughout the process. If for some reason that this programs goal is not met, everyone will get their donations back. It's a win-win-win situation. It will be an experience you'd most enjoy! (if it launches)
If you haven't noticed by now, I have started a Skyrocket section over at reddit and manage it with the most up-to-date information about the device (link in my signature). I only care about our community having the best that there is.
Couldn't help but notice you had this posted in your "skyrocket" subreddit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/com...le_to_launch_android_50_jelly_bean_in/c3ruc2t
Now, how are we to trust you again?
thisguy2431 said:
Couldn't help but notice you had this posted in your "skyrocket" subreddit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/com...le_to_launch_android_50_jelly_bean_in/c3ruc2t
Now, how are we to trust you again?
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Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Take it with a grain of salt. That link was an opinion about how a "Forum" system is outdated for advancements in the Android platform. Some threads are bombarded with irrelevant information about the original post that the conversations gets so diluted that it confuses the users.
If I gain interest with the developers I've contacted, I'm pretty sure we can all make this work and will have backers to support the cause.
thisguy2431 said:
Couldn't help but notice you had this posted in your "skyrocket" subreddit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/com...le_to_launch_android_50_jelly_bean_in/c3ruc2t
Now, how are we to trust you again?
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Oh, that's nice! Bashing the whole community, outstanding!
ojx said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Take it with a grain of salt. That link was an opinion about how a "Forum" system is outdated for advancements in the Android platform. Some threads are bombarded with irrelevant information about the original post that the conversations gets so diluted that it confuses the users.
If I gain interest with the developers I've contacted, I'm pretty sure we can all make this work and will have backers to support the cause.
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Well the poster of that comment clearly doesn't understand what XDA is. It is a community of hobbyists that do this in their spare time. They are free to do it however they please and condemning them for sharing their work that they could very well just keep to themselves is just arrogant and obtuse. If you truly appreciated XDA for what it was then that wouldn't have been there.
You are most definitely right that everyone is entitled to their opinions but if your opinion is that XDA is a 90's style development community then by all means, go elsewhere.
Thats just MY opinion