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HTC Strikes Back!

Honestly, I expected this to happen at some point in time
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1220790320100512?type=marketsNews
...it's Apple bashing time

Does anything ever come of this crap? I've seen countless patent complaints like this leveled between warring companies that come with the request for the courts to completely ban the sale of either companies biggest products.
I'd love to hear an example of a case where such a ban was actually enforced by the courts for a significant period of time. I'm sure someone here must know of some.
I realize this is mostly tit-for-tat legal posturing, I just find the resultant headlines amusing. The full earth-shattering consequences of the shuttering of all iPod/Phone/Pad products or every single HTC designed smartphone is never really contemplated in the body of said articles.
Imagine...."TARGET SUES WALMART OVER STORE RELATED PATENTS, REQUEST IMMEDIATE CLOSURE OF ALL WALMART SHOPPING CENTERS"
Good luck with that.

Hope HTC (and their mate MS) kick apples butttt!

MooGoo said:
Imagine...."TARGET SUES WALMART OVER STORE RELATED PATENTS, REQUEST IMMEDIATE CLOSURE OF ALL WALMART SHOPPING CENTERS"
Good luck with that.
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very true

good old patent wars...
Sent from my HERO200 using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

Don't think HTC is alone in this. From what I understand how the corporate world works, Microsoft and Google are surely helping HTC behind the scene a lot.

Burn apple burn lol

Court asks Samsung to give samples to Apple

Court asks Samsung to give samples of Galaxy S2, Tabs, Infuse 4G, Droid charge to Apple
http://androidos.in/2011/05/court-a...laxy-s2-tabs-infuse-4g-droid-charge-to-apple/
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/05/19/36708.htm

"Because these claims are subject to consumer confusion and "ordinary observer" standards, the products themselves and the packaging in which they are sold are likely to be central to any motion for preliminary injunction" -apple
consumer confusion?? what kind of BS is that?
do you see people confusing a Hyundai as a Mercedes?? (hyundai cars look very similar to Mercedes!)
do you see people confusing sony "move" as nintendo wii? (sony "move" very similar to Wii)

And people wonder why soo Many people hate Apple. Ok lets make a triangular phone so we don't get sued or maybe a octagon?
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To be fair, Apple did copyright designs. So you may not like Apple, but if this were any other company people probably wouldn't care.

this just sounds real greedy of apple

Really?
ok so maybe samsung will have to pay up to everybody who ever made a cell phone, now. seriously. its a money thing.

So probably Samsung sales are going to stop in the US, because of USA-smartass patents. Software patents, seriously?
Though I don't really care.

This is just disgusting, plain and simple............i hate that company to its core (yay pun!)

Apple throwing power around, what a surprise.
Still rocking the Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

So what it's not like Apple is capable of making anything on their own. They're at the mercy of Samsung, LG, ect to make their junk for them. 5 years from now Apple will be a broken company like they were in the 90's.

I know =/ its just frustrating that they're allowed to do this kind of crap, i know corporate law and suing one another go hand in hand, but i mean come on linux and various other company's hold many patents over apple, which they pay to use (and some which they even tried to sue other companies over, even though they didnt even invent the item for which they were suing), but regardless its just stupid that they throw their power around so easily and aren't met with much resistance........sad days

Exador said:
So what it's not like Apple is capable of making anything on their own. They're at the mercy of Samsung, LG, ect to make their junk for them. 5 years from now Apple will be a broken company like they were in the 90's.
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What's saving them is Steve Jobs. He's one of the last people who really knows how to advertise a product, and "make people believe that they need and can't live without his product".
Most of the other companies employ young and inexperienced people, that's why their sales fail.
When Jobs leave Apple, it'll be just like any other company, coming towards customers instead of making customers come towards them.
That's the idea that Jobs found out in 70s, 80s... there's a movie about Jobs, Gates, Wozniak, and Ballmer, I can't remember its name, which clearly shows their success.

O
Blagus said:
What's saving them is Steve Jobs. He's one of the last people who really knows how to advertise a product, and "make people believe that they need and can't live without his product".
Most of the other companies employ young and inexperienced people, that's why their sales fail.
When Jobs leave Apple, it'll be just like any other company, coming towards customers instead of making customers come towards them.
That's the idea that Jobs found out in 70s, 80s... there's a movie about Jobs, Gates, Wozniak, and Ballmer, I can't remember its name, which clearly shows their success.
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"The Pirates of Silicon Valley" right?
Sent from my Captivate. Andromeda 3, Onix 2.0.5 @ 1.2Ghz

Dislike Apple? ITC Rules HTC Violated 2 Apple Patents, Bad News for Android?

I saw this in another forum and thought I would also share it here in the Sensation Forum.
Well I'm not a Apple or MS fan, but Apple is throwing all it's punches towards Android it seems. Just shows how much of a impact Android has had on them and will have in the future.
Anyway read this article about the ITC and HTC violating Apples Patents. I hope HTC comes back a wipes the **** out of Apple in the end.
http://allthingsd.com/20110715/itc-rules-htc-violated-two-apple-patents/?refcat=news
And here http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/

Apple is just full of crap.
This will blow over, it wont have a huge impact, they wont be able to sue much for damages even if HTC did loose. Android is open source, they will either find a loop hole or just work around it for future releases. No worries here.

That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation

They are very paranoid of all the Android success...hope HTC wins the appeal!

Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
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I like to see Apple suing more OEMs so they will gang up on Apple and sue back togather in revenge, and if at the end of the day HTC loses and got banned from selling Android devices in the US market, American consumers will probably be stuck with smuggled products.

Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/

dhumil said:
That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation
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They're that old??
Hmm.....IIRC,international patents last 17 years.
Two years of appeals....
I suspect that in the end,Apple will get theirs.
The sad part is that I don't dislike Apple,they just don't impress me.

It was only judge who ruled in Apple's favor. It's still going to be reviewed by the whole panel of judges. This isn't even close to a "victory" for Apple. Yet.

BarryH_GEG said:
Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
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Thanks for the link, I added it to the first post as well. It looks like HTC might be buying the patents as defense.
Like others said it is a long way from over.

everyday48 said:
Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
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It really sucks they lost out on the Nortel patents. It would have helped a lot. But honestly, this patent trolling has to stop. It's getting ridiculous now.

The only reason why android is getting all these random lawsuits is because its a threat.. Apple never cared before Google bought android. YES android existed before the G1 from Google, Google bought android out and took it to new levels, which we all thank lol.. The big players do this all the time, Apple Vs Microsoft, Apple Vs. Samsung, Apple Vs. Android... Well microsoft owns part of Apple's stocks, and vise-versa, its a way to move money around without being blunt obvious..

aNYthing24 said:
this patent trolling has to stop.
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+1
Even if HTC loses, it won't really change anything except their profit margin. They'll end up paying Apple something per handset for use of their intellectual property but won't have to redesign the handsets. But now that they own patents that Apple's theoretically infringing on the whole thing could be a draw anyway.

Apple has resorted to patent trolling hopefully...the appeals court will overturn the ruling

Bloody Apple...why don`t they just create great products instead of suing competitors. Stupid American thinking - if you can`t beat your competitor, sue him.
But no to worry - Google reported that every day there are 550 000 Android devices activated.

I cannot believe that Apple is actually trying to claim that they invented SCROLLING and TOUCH SCREENS. And all this as they're blatantly copying Android's notifications for iOS 5. I hope Google sues the living **** out of them.
This company is the very definition of scum.

I don't like Apple at all
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

When your own pool of innovation has run dry, sue the other guy for having a bigger pool
Steve Jobs fostered this sort of thinking by Apple back in the garage days, and although they have found ways over the years to manipulate their groupthink disciples and the non-techie commonman into believing that they have changed, it's never really been any different. Small wonder, since Microsoft and Apple basically created each other, and forged their own business personas together... an endless game of backstabbing between two foul companies, whilst at the same time they attempt to destroy anyone else in the middle.
Companies like Microsoft and Apple make me wish that anti-trust investigations were more centered around *groups* of corporations, rather than simply individual ones. A lot more of the real dirt going on in the tech markets would maybe get scrubbed off of the floor, so to speak

HTC infringes 2 Apple patents, could see all Android devices banned

Specifically, the judge found that HTC infringes patents 5,946,647 and 6,343,263. The first relates to receiving information that can then be used by a single interaction from the user, e.g. receiving a phone number, automatically highlighting it, and tapping the screen to call. The second relates to the processing of real-time data on a handset.
The issue this causes is much bigger than just impacting sales of HTC device as the patents relate to Android, not just HTC hardware. If the ruling stands, then Apple could quite rightly go after every manufacturer that uses Android, be it a smartphone or a tablet, and demand their device be banned from sale in the U.S. In effect, Apple would stop Android in its tracks and remove its biggest competitor from the field of play.
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http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile...ould-see-all-android-devices-banned-20110716/

great, american consumers will be stuck with smuggled android devices.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA App

Will Apple get the ban hammer someday?

Apple has lost the race to android so now they are suing every android maker
...

cdesai said:
Apple has lost the race to android so now they are suing every android maker
...
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Precisely. It's funny that they have the nerve to do this, when many "new" features of iOS5 are clear rip-offs of Android features.

£q

Ginosaji said:
Most of these patents are a blatant exploit of the system. I wouldn't be surprised if most, if not all of them are thrown out.
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Indeed these patents have only a few years left in them, yet for the first one loads of phones and computer programs have incorporated text recognition and processing, yet I don't recall Apple getting uppety about it.

technology will be slow if all patent not colaborate

mr.hary said:
technology will be slow if all patent not colaborate
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Only in America, for Americans. The rest of the world doesn't have this problem with idiot patents grabbing "ownership" of massively vague concepts. It's not really a problem for the rest of us, America is just a small corner of the worldwide market.

great,,,,,,,,,...

MAD I tell you!
If Apple were to get Android banned, I would imagine Google will fight back by removing all their apps from iOS.
There goes Google maps, youtube, and gmail.
We would live in the smartphone dark ages.

bleach168 said:
MAD I tell you!
If Apple were to get Android banned, I would imagine Google will fight back by removing all their apps from iOS.
There goes Google maps, youtube, and gmail.
We would live in the smartphone dark ages.
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I don't see that happening. If anything, Apple will license their products to Google for a fee or Google will pay royalties. That is if anything comes of it.

Apple is pushing too hard.
These are normal things, which everyone uses, has used and will use. All droid companies gotta do is bring up a small update for the call thing and then smear it in apple's face, idk about second one though.
This is no way near to banning androids all over usa, indeed apple just changes a few things, while using android stuff.
They have been holding out on new iphone, probably cause of this patent thing.
Android made it through the multi touch patent, this should be a piece of cake.

hateem said:
Apple is pushing too hard.
These are normal things, which everyone uses, has used and will use. All droid companies gotta do is bring up a small update for the call thing and then smear it in apple's face, idk about second one though.
This is no way near to banning androids all over usa, indeed apple just changes a few things, while using android stuff.
They have been holding out on new iphone, probably cause of this patent thing.
Android made it through the multi touch patent, this should be a piece of cake.
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There hasn't been anything done by Apple on the multi-touch capacitive mobile display tech yet. Apple was just awarded the patent last month. In all likelihood Apple will wait to see what happens with all of its current litigation before determining what to do with its nuclear bomb.

Apple will never be able to put a finger on with the current models. Probably a royalty.
I was under the misinformation that apple got the patent a year ago.
'Apple was just awarded the patent last month.'
I am sure there is a law that stops patented technology from going forward against the technology which is present at that time

Actually doesn't iOS already steal Android's notification system? Hahahaha...

popular products never actually get banned from sale. What actually happens is that the parties agree to a match of chess after they get bored of the court, and the lower pays the winner a random amount of money.

hateem said:
Apple will never be able to put a finger on with the current models. Probably a royalty.
I was under the misinformation that apple got the patent a year ago.
I am sure there is a law that stops patented technology from going forward against the technology which is present at that time
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Apple applied for the patent around the time the first iPhone came out, about 3 years ago. The government just now found time to award it to them. I guess it took the government 3 years to study its validity.

I think Apple just wants some money - royalties - from HTC (or Samsung... or any other manufacturer).
There would be a big backlash against Apple if they were able to ban any android devices from the United States.
It's all about the money.

FloatingFatMan said:
Only in America, for Americans. The rest of the world doesn't have this problem with idiot patents grabbing "ownership" of massively vague concepts. It's not really a problem for the rest of us, America is just a small corner of the worldwide market.
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That's why I love my dear Brazil... ahh soooo great! haha

Apple Sues Again

Well, sadly, in another thread regarding the shipment delays I made the poor mistake of defending Apple and claiming the shipments being held by the ITC was likely a routine screening and not being held up because of Apple.
Turns out, I was wrong. Apple has filed a formal grievance with the US ITC today saying that HTC hasn't actually resolved the software issues and should meet as an emergency and re-enact the ban blocking imports of HTC phones.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=10560
This is just more over-aggressive bull**** lawsuits for no reason. HTC is in no position to even directly compete against Apple in the market, and ultimately is doing some of the most unique software and hardware design in the industry.
At what point does this whole mobile lawsuit nonsense come to a boiling point?
Also, as a point of full disclosure, and because I don't really want to ***** about Apple being the worst company on earth, I do own use and love my iPad, Macbook Air, and iMac. I do own an iPhone 4S but as of recently it sits off in a drawer while I use my HOX.
This thread was not started with the intention of people piling in to say how Apple is terrible, or builds ****ty products, but rather have a conversation about the challenges of the mobile industry moving forward. As each company tries to innovate and release compelling products the likelihood of overlapping features and functionality is inevitable. How does the industry encourage innovate without trampling intellectual property rights? (or in other words, **** Software Patents)

Apple is just pissed the one x is better than the iPhone
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

This is so ridiculous...

What gets me is how many of these patent disputes are actually FRAND (fair use) issues.
I'm waiting for some judge to put down his iPhone and see things clearly. Patent law is out of control and companies are only using it to maintain a monopoly or remain profitable to their stockholders when their product is actually no longer inovative and has lost market share (see also TiVo)

Apple sees a threat in Android a threat that will screw the company I hate apple but now its the devil to me .
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But this is bs! Why would they do that, apple needs competition, its basic business 101. Does apple think since I can't get a htc one phone imma get me some ios?? Hell no and im sure like me, that's just gonna piss others off and make it a point NOT to buy any apple products.
Maybe a boycott of apple is in order.
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
.
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They should start focusing on a new iOS or putting something extraordinary in the iPhone 5 instead of law suites. Hop off android. Power users choose android and the rest use iOS their lawsuits won't convert anybody. They're always suing somebody haha. Samsung, HTC, might as well sue Google and the rest of the world.
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This has little to do with rightfully protecting intellectual property, and everything to do with patent trolling and using the law to attack competitors.
Android has gobbled up market share due to the fact that manufacturer are willing to give people variety and choices. Meanwhile, Apple is trying to lock everyone into one device form factor.
This also more represents Apple's failure to innovate, rather than the opposite. The iPhone has hardly changed its looks after 5 iterations. Aside from different backing material, it has looked almost exactly the same. And few internal hardware innovations as well. Aside from moving to a better screen, and a better camera, the hardware has only had incremental improvements (CPU and memory) over its entire lifespan.
The one form factor business model has benefited them in many ways, but we've come to a point where people now want bigger screens on their smartphones. Apple has simply run out of new ideas in the present form factor. Their biggest recent innovation. . . Siri (chuckle). They are stuck and they know it. If they move to a larger iPhone (and also a smaller iPad, or "iPad Mini" as its rumored) they begin to experience some of the OS fragmentation that they have criticized Android for so many times in the past.
I don't mean to complain about Apple so much, or sound like a hater. They make some nice devices, and have contributed some nice interface design to the smartphone world (earlier in the iPhones history). But its clear that they have stopped innovating. Instead of coming up with new ideas, they have chosen to use petty methods of attacking their competitors.

freakboy13 said:
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
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It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.

I really tend to agree. While no one can argue that iOS and the iPhone were amazing innovations, and helped spur the mobile industry as it stands now, iOS has really stagnated on innovate.
There haven't been amazing new features / innovations to the platform in awhile and it seems Apple cares more about others not doing what they have done in the past then focus on what they can do in the future.
I think everyday there are more examples of software design that should be open and licensed rather than closed IP. Things like "pull to refresh" and "pinch to zoom" are functionalities that exist in natural user interface and simple should be able to freely licensed to all software developers.
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
I just feel like software patents are going to be increasingly difficult to develop and protect and that these major players in the market need to understand there will be functionality overlaps. As such I want to see this bull**** end and cross-licensing begin.

fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
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That is rational. Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP. They have so much cash that they don't know what to do with it and there is no sign of their revenue stream stopping any time soon, so they don't need the money. This is just a pissing match at this point. Apple's intention is total "Thermo-Nuclear-War" annihilation of Android. Things might start to get a bit different now that Steve Jobs is not around...but perhaps it is too soon. Not that I agree with Apple.
I just think patent reform is needed. Competition is good though. In some ways I think Apple has helped HTC. Now HTC has notoriety. Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband. This HTC One X is now notorious. So even though sales were stopped because of customs I think more people now know what HTC is and that it represents a credible threat to Apple. People will want what they are told that they can't have....human nature.

This is why i got away from apple products not going to support their lawsuits... im tired of hearing this stuff but of course its not going to stop...

Instead of innovating they use wide spread patents to squash competition.
It's not just a problem in the phone industry, patents are way too wide sweeping, long lasting, and powerful these days. Try and remember patent law was created to promote innovation not crush it.

galfert said:
Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband.
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I have experienced this too and with my old Samsung Captivate as well. When people see an Android phone they are wowed by it and by the ability to make it what YOU want. When they see an iPhone, it's just another iPhone, there's nothing special anymore, nothing "magical." I used to get excited over iPhone announcements back in the days where I was a poor high school student yearning to have a smartphone. Now, howveer, I find the annoucements boring because really, there's nothing to be excited about anymore.

Apple where we invented the lawsuit
Sent from the Darkside of the Force

fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
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galfert said:
Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP.
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Well, it looks like that's exactly what happened, and HTC refused to license.
"Apple reportedly asked for $5 - $15 per device to settle Android patent dispute" (I'm not 'allowed' to post my source link, but if you google that headline, you should find it on the Dow Jones website. Article is dated May 5th, 2012.)
So HTC just went on their merry way and knowingly infringed on the patent. If they didn't see this coming, then they're idiots.
That said, I LOVE this damn phone! I see why Apple might have a little envy smeared on their faces!

Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?

kilo89 said:
Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?
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Money plain and simple friggin monopoly
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

galfert said:
It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.
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Thanks for clearing up my ignorance, that's totally what I meant to say, (reference to the book by G.O.), and the point I was trying to make, lol.
I don't totally hate on apple my MacBook pro still best computer I have, and its almost 4yo, and still kicks ass media wise. But this lawsuit thing is just out of control.
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Boycott Crapple and encourage others to do the same. Enough already.
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