so the g2x has a duel core processer that gingerbread does not support? so i'm only useing one. and ics does support duel cores. the only way i'll get ics is to root my phone and wait for on of the devs to get an ics rom working on the the g2x. thanks in advance
In a nutshell
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
It controls the two CPUs as one, it doesn't just use one. The rest I believe is correct.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
I think even rooting the phone and waiting for ICS from here will still not use the dual core properly as it will not have the Nvidia drivers till after it is released by LG.
GTWalling said:
I think even rooting the phone and waiting for ICS from here will still not use the dual core properly as it will not have the Nvidia drivers till after it is released by LG.
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Click to collapse
WOW, thats pretty weak.
It's not that you're only using one core, it's that the two cores cannot function independently. They both focus on the same task and clock at the same speed, all the time. So you do notice an increase in performance above, say, a Nexus S, but it's not as good as it could be.
This is not a limitation of Gingerbread per say, but more a limitation of the drivers. Since nVidia does not release their driver source, we have to wait for them to provide better ones, which in all likelihood will never happen.
Two processors, one task
Due to resource sharing (cache, memory, mass storage, I/O), it is VERY hard to get two processors to work on one task. Some manager/executive would have to partition or parallelize the work between the two processors. And most tasks have many serial operations - what mechanism is going to serialize the tasks amongst two processors? I have yet to see a linux kernel expert on these forums declare Froyo or GB his a linux kernel that supports this.
The procs have dedicated L1 cache, and a shared L2 cache - stale cache blocks (aka cache miss) would be a nightmare if two procs were working on the same task - it would actually be slower.
Symmetric multi-core is made for multiple tasks or threads, not trying to parallelize a single task. I thought this was discussed in another thread...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1129074
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albertorodast2007 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1129074
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the forward
edit:so i was reading the forwarded link and i ran in another like
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...alcore-1015/&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13219228920753
and in this link it says the tegra 2 didn't use the asynchronous duel cores because nividia says it loses 10-15% performance. so i'm led to believe there not working independently. unless i'm misunderstanding.
Both cores are running just not as efficiently as they could with multi-threading. ICS will multi-thread and properly use the dual cores.
Thread scheduler
So does anyone know what mechanism handles thread scheduling? I guess it'd have to be at the Android layer... And I thought that was introduced in 3.0?
Related
im just curious to kno when we over clock this phone with temp root ...are we only over clocking one processor? im asking this because I've been reading that gingerbread doesn't even use both cores...and we have to wait until ice cream sandwich for both cores to be used like there supposed to be...I kno some games utilize both cores, but for the most part we only have a "single" core phone?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
I'm interested in underclocking/disabling a core. Seeing how that would play out on battery life.
A post I found online says it nicely:
Right now, the android sdk (2.3) provides no means to use more than one CPU core.
Still, multicore CPUs will increase performance because background processes can use CPU time on the core not being used by the running app.
This also applies to garbage collection (GC) which happens periodically (I guess you can trigger it manually too) whilst an app is running. With more than one core, the GC won't block the app which makes it feel "smoother".
I remember reading about Google's plans to improve multicore-support in android 2.4. It will take some time for existing apps to use it though (like it's happened with desktop applications).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you can now see, even though the device is dual core, the OS and any applications won't make -full- use of both cores until they are designed to do so. Just like most applications these days won't utilize a quad core processor on your desktop. You are correct in saying that some games are designed to use both, which is noticeable. I don't see why an overclock wouldn't affect both cores.
By the way, your title is full of fail "Gingerbread only using one core?" would have been more suitable, since the device itself has nothing to do with how the OS utilizes its hardware.
I wonder if within the development here we can actually get that working?
xamadeix said:
I wonder if within the development here we can actually get that working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get what working, the overclock on both cores? Or Gingerbread using both cores?
If A: Yes (once S-OFF update comes, or temporarily with Fr3vo until then)
If B: No.
haha I thought about that after I posted..I kno how some pple are on here...easy to flame ya...which is why I don't post often..just read...but thanks for the info...I figured that was the case...can't wait to see what this phone is really capable of....s-off will be here sooner then later
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dontw said:
I'm just curious to know when we over clock this phone with temp root ...are we only over clocking one processor? I'm asking this because I've been reading that gingerbread doesn't even use both cores...and we have to wait until ice cream sandwich for both cores to be used like there supposed to be...I know some games utilize both cores, but for the most part we only have a "single" core phone?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I agree with you.
It would be nice if both cores ramped up to full speed when even only one is needed.
So in basic terms..
SGSII is a monster of CPU power....
you say its only using 1 core, and SGSII scores about 2-3 times more than our HTC Sensation...
When icecream will be released, the samsung galaxy S ii will socre even higher than our sensation....
I do not think android 2.3 is using one core for sure its using both .( even if the OS doesn't support )
tomeu0000 said:
I do not think android 2.3 is using one core for sure its using both .( even if the OS doesn't support )
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Click to collapse
Wait, huh? Are you saying that you think the GS2 is using both cores, and the sensation is only using one? That would completely explain the benchmark scores. Bring on 2.4
tomeu0000 said:
So in basic terms..
SGSII is a monster of CPU power....
you say its only using 1 core, and SGSII scores about 2-3 times more than our HTC Sensation...
When icecream will be released, the samsung galaxy S ii will socre even higher than our sensation....
I do not think android 2.3 is using one core for sure its using both .( even if the OS doesn't support )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you see a benchmark score where the SGSII is 2-3 times higher than the HTC Sensation?
The only one that I have checked was CF-Bench (which supports dual core) and the SGSII was about 20% higher. Certainly not 200%-300% higher.
tomeu0000 said:
So in basic terms..
SGSII is a monster of CPU power....
you say its only using 1 core, and SGSII scores about 2-3 times more than our HTC Sensation...
When icecream will be released, the samsung galaxy S ii will socre even higher than our sensation....
I do not think android 2.3 is using one core for sure its using both .( even if the OS doesn't support )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
this is gonna be a forever argument between the sensation and the gsII...on paper the sensation has better hardware ..Google it..its all over the forum ...the software is not optimized for the phone.with that being said..neither is the gsII...unless its running honeycomb somehow or ice cream sandwich ...gingerbread its self is the issue...now touchwiz may utilize both cores..im not sure..that may be why the gsII seems way smoother....just wait until this BL is unlocked...this phone will be monster
Do any of you guys remember this: MS update - KB896256?
I remember what that did for my laptop.
Worked real well.
so we have this powerhouse of a phone but no apps to actually justify it? It'd be good to see any app (games most probably) that could show me what my phone is capable of. I do not want to use chainfire and run tegra 2 games on it, even though i could, its besides the point. Its been a couple of months since this phone came out, But a dire lack of app support for it
And not just a lack of support by the apps also android doesn't support dual core yet, that's what ICS will bring and also a lack of support by HTC giving us adreno200 libs for an adreno220 chipset..
HTC Swyped from my Sensation using XDA Premium
Linux has supported SMP for over 15 years. So long as an android device has two CPU intensive applications running at once, it's using both cores. Even the most basic, single threaded application can benefit from multiple cores if it depends on additional services such as sound, video, or networking because the second core will manage the additional services independently.
In other words, at a systemic level, your dual core phone will be utilized, regardless of the threadedness of the application.
An additional byproduct of single threaded applications on a multicore system, stupidly CPU intensive applications such as flash will only be able to hog 50% of your performance, allowing your other applications to run less affected than if flash were on a single core system of twice the speed.
*damo* said:
And not just a lack of support by the apps also android doesn't support dual core yet, that's what ICS will bring and also a lack of support by HTC giving us adreno200 libs for an adreno220 chipset..
HTC Swyped from my Sensation using XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*damo* said:
And not just a lack of support by the apps also android doesn't support dual core yet, that's what ICS will bring and also a lack of support by HTC giving us adreno200 libs for an adreno220 chipset..
HTC Swyped from my Sensation using XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is ICS, and when will it arrive ( proper dual core support ) ?
Thanks.
Ice Cream Sandwich - the next version of android, reported to be a sort of mix of ginger and honeycomb to be used on phones and tablets.
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thing is, i would just like to see one app with which the sensation can show its superiority over the dhd.
even dungeon defenders isnt fixed for the sensation
How can you tell if your using both cpu cores???
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Or the flip side of that coin, can I power down one of my cores?
From my understanding both cores run in sync, meaning they both run all the time at the same speed. It is the tegra 2 design. Other dual core chip sets run asynchronous
jcbofkc said:
From my understanding both cores run in sync, meaning they both run all the time at the same speed. It is the tegra 2 design. Other dual core chip sets run asynchronous
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure that answers either question - just because both cores are running on the same clock doesn't mean they are both doing work. Obviously, two cores can't work on the same thread or process at the same time. Some executive has to manage the work load and the associated resource sharing. Does GB really do any multi-core? Does ICS?
All good questions. I was wondering the same thing.
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namklak said:
I'm not sure that answers either question - just because both cores are running on the same clock doesn't mean they are both doing work. Obviously, two cores can't work on the same thread or process at the same time. Some executive has to manage the work load and the associated resource sharing. Does GB really do any multi-core? Does ICS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent points. I found this.
http://www.tested.com/news/dual-core-vs-single-core-arm-what-does-an-extra-core-really-get-you/2337/
In Android 2.2 Froyo, there are no dual-core optimizations at all. The system just sees a fast SoC, but Is unable to thread processes effectively. Even in the newer Gingerbread build of Android, there is virtually no support for dual-core SoCs. The ext4 file system added to Android 2.3 sill see a modest boost in the area of I/O performance, but that's about it. Right now, Android on phones does not understand dual-core chips.
A dual-core device might be a really snappy experience, but that's not because of the number of cores per se. The SoC is just fast, even without proper process threading. You can get a similarly responsive device with a regular old single-core SoC. Yes we know, how quaint.
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Click to collapse
Howdy everyone,
i happened to come across an app on the market called CPU Gauge and this demonstrates to you exactly what each core on your phone is doing at all times, even in your notification bar at all times. Now i have noticed no matter what i do there only ever seems to be 1 core running which is pretty pants i reckon. how can i enable it to run dual cores all of the time? i dont understand it personally, why have a dual channel architecture if its hardly ever used? and surely it having to decide whether to use one core over two and to send data down both channels or just the one is probably a reason why we get lag? i am probably completely wrong but id rather the cpus always be on and drain battery if it improves overall performance
androidfanboi said:
Howdy everyone,
i happened to come across an app on the market called CPU Gauge and this demonstrates to you exactly what each core on your phone is doing at all times, even in your notification bar at all times. Now i have noticed no matter what i do there only ever seems to be 1 core running which is pretty pants i reckon. how can i enable it to run dual cores all of the time? i dont understand it personally, why have a dual channel architecture if its hardly ever used? and surely it having to decide whether to use one core over two and to send data down both channels or just the one is probably a reason why we get lag? i am probably completely wrong but id rather the cpus always be on and drain battery if it improves overall performance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though a mod will move this thread please post questions in the general section this is for development purposes only..
But if what you say is true i will have to look into this. What rom are you currently running?
Just a rooted/overclocked LG stock gingerbread rom.
For me it shows 2 Cores working ,but second is ON only when needed (as it should be) So its OK. Lags are because of poor ram managment on LG software, I recommend Rushdroid ROM.
What I know, Android 2.3 and below does not provide a support for multi cores. However, ICS does support it. So, I think the phone will run much better when the ICS update comes.
abo_mara7 said:
What I know, Android 2.3 and below does not provide a support for multi cores. However, ICS does support it. So, I think the phone will run much better when the ICS update comes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope. thasts only an urban legend But it can improve performance at some points, but I would be rather sceptic. Custom roms must be always better (what they are doing making software, making it slower on purpose? go Samsung way and hire cm team members)
In games it uses both cores but im dissapointed that when testing swapping between different apps and web browsing seemed to all be using just the one core, and that was with lags inbetween swapping from for instance gallery to browser. I love this phone great specs but it annoys me more and more to think LG really did have no clue when it came down to putting it all into action. is there any way to have 2 cores on at all times or atleast change the values that decide when to use second core/channel.
If anything it makes for an interesting discussion
IFLPI said:
nope. thasts only an urban legend But it can improve performance at some points, but I would be rather sceptic. Custom roms must be always better (what they are doing making software, making it slower on purpose? go Samsung way and hire cm team members)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has a partial support, not 100%, and the proof is that all dual core phones which received ICD update, got a huge improvement in the performance, as their users said.
androidfanboi said:
In games it uses both cores but im dissapointed that when testing swapping between different apps and web browsing seemed to all be using just the one core, and that was with lags inbetween swapping from for instance gallery to browser. I love this phone great specs but it annoys me more and more to think LG really did have no clue when it came down to putting it all into action. is there any way to have 2 cores on at all times or atleast change the values that decide when to use second core/channel.
If anything it makes for an interesting discussion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The processor works as it should be, all cores when needed. Check System Panel app. Ram is the issue here. On stock it will be always laggy. On rushdroid and samba there is good ram management. Almost 250mb for the user. On stock i doubt if there is 130mb free available.
@up: there is no evidence that GB supports 1 core only and ICS multiple cores. A better performance on ICS can be due to the bigger optimizations, and hw support (that can be buggy) like gpu enabled scrolling etc.
But Ive heard that ics supports fully multicores, and that is an urban legend for me (no evidence) Ics can be just more optimized than gingerbread (and more like honeycomb which was quite fast)
IFLPI said:
The processor works as it should be, all cores when needed. Check System Panel app. Ram is the issue here. On stock it will be always laggy. On rushdroid and samba there is good ram management. Almost 250mb for the user. On stock i doubt if there is 130mb free available.
@up: there is no evidence that GB supports 1 core only and ICS multiple cores. A better performance on ICS can be due to the bigger optimizations, and hw support (that can be buggy) like gpu enabled scrolling etc.
But Ive heard that ics supports fully multicores, and that is an urban legend for me (no evidence) Ics can be just more optimized than gingerbread (and more like honeycomb which was quite fast)
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Click to collapse
you are correct cores are working as they should be not a problem here at... Gingerbread supports multicore and does use the cpu to the max when needed, you don't need to run both your cores all the time if that was the case you would need to charge your phone every 3 hours....
The issue with our optimus 3d is it needs ram tweaks to keep it smooth, 512mb ram is good i am not complaining because it's dual channel and so on so the ram speed is amazing just to free up ram we have tweaks...
Also the cpu is used to the max when needed, when you make a call you do not need both cores working at the same time that would be pointless. But when you play games, browse the net and bench your device all cores are used at the same time...
if you want to try it (see the difference) with both cores enabled ,(and cpu speed at max) try system tuner app , in cpu setting put governor to "performance" the first core will go to max speed , then go to active tweak and there is an option to force all cpu on , try it , it will be hard for the battery... when you put governor back to hotplug , the second core will return on demand (on/off) . if you want to do it again after you have to redo all step and turn the force all cpu on off and on again...
i'm on v21D on rushdroid 3.6.3. Both cores show up as working. 1 core ususally hits 1.4ghz and 2nd one upto 1ghz during regular processing. Great app btw tnx for letting us know
Which kernel you use on rushdroid @1,4ghz?
IFLPI said:
Which kernel you use on rushdroid @1,4ghz?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Titan kernal v21d
Sent from my LG-P920h using XDA
Its not neccessary to use dual core all the times ,using dual core for small task degrade the performance that increasing. Since our phone have dual memory the cache plays an important role in deciding which core should be used.
I got my hopes up for nothing as the Charge did not make the list
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/24/samsung-rolling-jelly-bean-toward-most-of-its-smartphone-tablet/
It has already been said that jb and touchwiz would never fit on our system partition.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
I think the bigger issue here besides getting 4.1 is... the mobile market needs to follow the model of the PC for the enduser.
I would be willing to pay some money to upgrade to the next major OS updates for my devices. Whether its my tablets or my phone. I wouldn't mind if I could only get vanilla android either.
It would put the power in the consumers hands. For example, I bought a laptop with windows vista and later upgraded it to windows 7 since my laptop could run it well. I hope someday android is able to do this as well. And sooner rather than later.
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bubarub said:
I think the bigger issue here besides getting 4.1 is... the mobile market needs to follow the model of the PC for the enduser.
I would be willing to pay some money to upgrade to the next major OS updates for my devices. Whether its my tablets or my phone. I wouldn't mind if I could only get vanilla android either.
It would put the power in the consumers hands. For example, I bought a laptop with windows vista and later upgraded it to windows 7 since my laptop could run it well. I hope someday android is able to do this as well. And sooner rather than later.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that upgrading a phone will never be as straightforward as upgrading a PC. There's no one "Android Operating System" that exists as a general purpose OS. AOSP is the base, but even Google does more work to it before it goes on a Nexus device. Every phone has different hardware, which requires different drivers, and often, different close-source software and libraries, which means that every version of Android is a different embedded OS that is based on core Android. Making it generalized enough to run across the board on all hardware on the market would bloat it. It would make it memory, CPU, and power inefficient. We like to think of our phones as powerful miniature computers, but in reality, they don't even match the processor and memory capabilities of the average netbook. It's only through careful optimizations that it is able to run the way it runs, and you can't just slap a generic version of Android on a device and expect the same results.
Its not impossible...
And isn't every computer different from one another just like a phone or tablets?!
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bubarub said:
Its not impossible...
And isn't every computer different from one another just like a phone or tablets?!
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Shrike said - the phones are too small and don't have the capacity that computers do for memory, disk and processor. Even if they did, the power draw would be excessive. Everything is extremely customized to fit within the phone's tiny footprint.
BTW - every computer has it's own limits with respect to memory and cpu capacity. Yes, you can upgrade, but there is a point of diminishing returns. What's the point of installing the fastest processor if the bus can't handle it? It goes on and on.
Lastly, it will never be in their best interests (profits, new sales) to adopt the computer model. They don't like that you keep a computer for years. They want churn. They want planned obsolescence.
bubarub said:
Its not impossible...
And isn't every computer different from one another just like a phone or tablets?!
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossible? No. Highly impractical? Yes
A computer has enough memory, storage, and processor power that the larger footprint of the "everything and the kitchen sink" model doesn't bog it down the way it would a phone. Just look at storage space alone...when you don't know exactly what hardware you're going to encounter, you have to account for all possibilities. Just the extra storage is going to add tangibly to the cost. Then you have the extra power drain required for the more efficient processors that will be needed to run the more generic OS correctly, and the extra RAM needed to load all of it's parts. A smartphone is a modern example of the classic embedded system. When you have limited resources to work with, your OS has to be more focused, customized, and efficient to work in an acceptable way.
So, yes, it's possible in the broadest sense, but do you want to pay $1500+ for the device that can be upgraded at will and be out of date within 2 years? Or would you rather pay $100-$500 every two years for the latest hardware and OS, at the expense of a more limited upgrade path? Personally, I know where I'll put my money.
Haha good point on that last paragraph! I agree.
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Specs
It doesn't take much to look at the default off the shelf Dell box's specs and compare them to that of any phone. The Intel Core i7 or AMD FX-8150 processors would smoke any ARM on the market for mobiles. Memory in the desktop is 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz. Again crushing the Droid Charge and every other phone. 1TB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive, nuff said man won't be there for mobile for a while now. The power consumption would drain your mobiles battery in the time it takes to boot up. Let us also not forget that GHz and GB and TB don't all perform the same across the board. For instance a 1TB parallel ATA drive, 1TB SATA, and 1TB SSD differ vastly in performance. The NVIDIA Tegra 3 Quad core, 1.2 GHz, ARM Cortex-A9 processor in the Nexus 7 just doesn't hold a candle to the Intel Core i7-640UM Dual Core 1.2 GHz. It's about more than cores and clock speeds.
MikeAGriffey said:
It doesn't take much to look at the default off the shelf Dell box's specs and compare them to that of any phone. The Intel Core i7 or AMD FX-8150 processors would smoke any ARM on the market for mobiles. Memory in the desktop is 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz. Again crushing the Droid Charge and every other phone. 1TB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive, nuff said man won't be there for mobile for a while now. The power consumption would drain your mobiles battery in the time it takes to boot up. Let us also not forget that GHz and GB and TB don't all perform the same across the board. For instance a 1TB parallel ATA drive, 1TB SATA, and 1TB SSD differ vastly in performance. The NVIDIA Tegra 3 Quad core, 1.2 GHz, ARM Cortex-A9 processor in the Nexus 7 just doesn't hold a candle to the Intel Core i7-640UM Dual Core 1.2 GHz. It's about more than cores and clock speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could take the time to pick apart your post and make fun of you, but there isn't any point.
Kind of like your post.
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Time to just give up on JB or ICS for charge. I just upgraded to galaxy nexus. I love it and highly recommend it. Cheers!
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