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microsoft is flexing some muscle to cripple the competition!

We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.

Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!

Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.

They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
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What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.

They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.

z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
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So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
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So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.

Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
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In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
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Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.

z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
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You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
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But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
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That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
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Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.

I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.

GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
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If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.

z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
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I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.

GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
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I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.

z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
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Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.

A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.

I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."

ITC Judge Rules in Favor of iPhone against HTC

Anybody seen this yet? I wonder what it means in the long run...
ITC Judge Rules in Favor of Apple in HTC Patent Case
http://www.newsy.com/videos/itc-judge-rules-in-favor-of-apple-in-htc-patent-case
**Sent from my Ziggy powered Thunderbolt, INFECTED by Synergy, the only Virus that doesn't need a cure!**

*refers the op back a page in the general section to: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1171256

yareally said:
*refers the op back a page in the general section to: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1171256
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Ah, thank you. My apologies, I generally spend my time in the development and/or mod section. I posted it here cos it has no relevance in either.
**Sent from my Ziggy powered Thunderbolt, INFECTED by Synergy, the only Virus that doesn't need a cure!**

CLoft239 said:
Ah, thank you. My apologies, I generally spend my time in the development and/or mod section. I posted it here cos it has no relevance in either.
**Sent from my Ziggy powered Thunderbolt, INFECTED by Synergy, the only Virus that doesn't need a cure!**
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sure no problem, lol

yareally said:
sure no problem, lol
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that judge has his hand in apples pockets.

bthomp21 said:
that judge has his hand in apples pockets.
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Wasn't a judge or even in east texas. The International Trade Commission ruled on it, but HTC has already appealed it.

Patents are getting out of hand...you can patent anything and everything, and its becoming a hinderance on development of new technologies. Sad really.

marlin29311 said:
Patents are getting out of hand...you can patent anything and everything, and its becoming a hinderance on development of new technologies. Sad really.
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Yea the worst part of all is companies like *cough* Apple patenting things are are pretty much the concept or idea of a small company and call it their own. The small company doesn't have the means to fend for itself.... Sad really...

I have Thunderbolt and I love it, but lets be honest... There were no phones that offered the iPhone user experience before iPhone. Everyone really came just after trying to ride the wave and a lot of things just got well lets say "borrowed".
No hard feelings, it's the simple truth wether we liked it or not.

milan03 said:
I have Thunderbolt and I love it, but lets be honest... There were no phones that offered the iPhone user experience before iPhone. Everyone really came just after trying to ride the wave and a lot of things just got well lets say "borrowed".
No hard feelings, it's the simple truth wether we liked it or not.
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Everyone borrows from everyone. Always do and always will. Apple is just the least likely one to admit they do (which they do and always have [just google xerox gui os apple])

All it means is HTC will have to make payments to Apple. No doomsday stuff.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

yareally said:
Wasn't a judge or even in east texas. The International Trade Commission ruled on it, but HTC has already appealed it.
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ITC Judge Rules in Favor of Apple in HTC Patent Case
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oh ok! sorry i must have missed that.

well........
milan03 said:
I have Thunderbolt and I love it, but lets be honest... There were no phones that offered the iPhone user experience before iPhone. Everyone really came just after trying to ride the wave and a lot of things just got well lets say "borrowed".
No hard feelings, it's the simple truth wether we liked it or not.
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As someone else said, everybody copies everybody else.......
Some fact to clear things up.
The first touchscreen phone was the IBM Simon, launched in 1992. During this decade the popular iPaq (not made by Apple by the way) was launched with touchscreens and optional phone attachments. In 2002, HTC, the leader in touchscreen phones, launched the the HTC Wallaby aka XDA (The first mass release touchscreen mobile phone). Later, the iPhone and makers of phones like the Nexus One launched their first touchscreen phone.
And, I don't remember where I got the following, but, it is absolutely true:
"We just couldn’t help but take a few minutes to point out some of the interesting announcements from Apple’s WWDC today. They brought forth iOS5 (well not until Fall), which basically introduced long-time Android feature after long-time Android feature – something we are finding to be hilarious. While I’ll try to refrain from tossing out too many little jabs since so many of the people in this world lack a sense of humor on the Apple vs. Android subject (“why you so bitter!?” -Twitter), I’ll just say that this marks a pretty important day for Android. It’s now clear that Android has moved well beyond Apple on the innovation scale when it comes to mobile software. For a company that continues to stand on stage and put up twisted statistics, one that claims to have invented everything, and one that takes cheap shots at every other company in the industry even while the rest of them have moved on, we couldn’t help but giggle a little.
With the introduction of notifications, OTA updates, tabbed browsing, cloud services, a mobile IM program, and the ability to activate a device without having to connect to a PC, the roars from the WWDC crowd could be felt across the interwebs. We can’t fault iOS fans for cheering today – after all, they should have been enjoying all of these features for years now. What we’ll do though, is remind them that swiping, notifying, tabbing, clouding and customizing became the norm if your phone ran on a green powered mobile OS years ago."

Samsung and Microsoft settle Android licensing dispute

Samsung and Microsoft settle Android licensing dispute
why does it sounds like Microsoft is almost like begging for money here?
just because Android sales are waaaaaaay better than their windows phones
Samsung, htc, and Motorola have to pay back royalty fees to Microsoft for selling non Microsoft products?
what a load of crap
not much better than Apple playing a similar card with all those product bans
simply lame
they can't compete in tech innovation, so they'll use any means necessary to kill Android.... sad world we are in

What all has been happening these days!
Weird things!!!

AllGamer said:
why does it sounds like Microsoft is almost like begging for money here?
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Not begging. Extorting. I mean, is it even about some specific patents? Because at least publicly, it totally looks like MS is doing this: "Nice phone you got there... would be a shame if something, you know, happened to it..."

that too
basically it almost as if they (HTC, Samsung, Motorola, Viewsonic, Acer) are not paying Microsoft, they are not able to sell Android phones.... WTH is that?
Android is open source, Google is not charging for it, yet Microsoft is extorting the manufactures for using Android instead of Windows????
if they produce also Windows phone they only pay $10 per phone, if they don't produce any window phone, then it goes up to $15 per phone!
it's like WTF is going on?!?!?!

AllGamer said:
they can't compete in tech innovation, so they'll use any means necessary to kill Android.... sad world we are in
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You could also look at it the other way - actually the way Samsung, HTC, and the legal system in several different developed countries sees it:
"Google couldn't compete with innovation - so they go steal something from Apple, something from MS, and make Android... bRRRRRRRRiliant."

The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.

z33dev33l said:
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
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Another useful post from the ultimate android troll...hates android so much and yet can't stay out of any thread that mentions it!

Not at all, just correcting his mistake. It's not a lack of innovation on Microsoft's part that's making oem's have to pay to use android. That's androids patent infringement. Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft. Then again, winmo 6.5 would've been just as good as android today had they had a decent app catalogue and more importantly an easier way to reach said apps.

z33dev33l said:
Not at all, just correcting his mistake. It's not a lack of innovation on Microsoft's part that's making oem's have to pay to use android. That's androids patent infringement. Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft. Then again, winmo 6.5 would've been just as good as android today had they had a decent app catalogue and more importantly an easier way to reach said apps.
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Exactly.
Its amazing how people think there must be a global conspiracy or something against Android. Its illegal activities that are costing the OS dearly.

z33dev33l said:
Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft.
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Ok, if you're "just correcting" other people, then I will correct you.
You're talking as if those patents are about some great innovations. But that is complete BS. Those patents are about generic totally obvious things, like "method to update the address book". And I'm not kidding with that, "method to update the address book" is one of the patents in the Microsoft vs. Motorola dispute.
Yeah, updating the address book is serious, serious innovation and Google is totally being the big bad non-innovator by daring to create an OS where you can update the address book. I mean, how dare they!!

z33dev33l said:
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
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Lol...
So if you cant innovate , u should pay royalties?
This way ford should have been more capital worthy then Exxon since they where first to build cars.
Even Einstein,built upon others idea and refined it.
God ppl need to be more broad minded.
Op just asked why is Microsoft seeking money from an OS which is not even related to them, and you throw random bull of your innovative crap
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App

jags_the1 said:
Lol...
So if you cant innovate , u should pay royalties?
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Actually yes. If I can't make a hamburger - I pay McD to do it. If I can't sow some jeans - I go and pay CK to do it. If I can't make an OS by myself - you guessed it - I pay someone else who did it.
Property is property. Period.

Exactly. But now with Samsung and HTC paying royalties to MS based off Android, it would seem like this is the case going forward. That's pretty much every major OEM accounted for(except LG since Moto is now Google's). Having custom hardware and UI's did nothing to prevent the courts from agreeing to licensing fees. Android is not free in absolute terms anymore

krale said:
Actually yes. If I can't make a hamburger - I pay McD to do it.
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But even if not you personally, a lot of people *will* make hamburgers. And will McD go collecting royalties from them? Of course not, that'd be beyond ridiculous.
krale said:
Property is property. Period.
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Exactly. Property is property. But then there's also this other thing called "intellectual property". I personally cringe at that, because it's a total misnomer, but oh well.

krale said:
Exactly.
Its amazing how people think there must be a global conspiracy or something against Android. Its illegal activities that are costing the OS dearly.
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Krale, just click on his name and look at his previous posts before you get into a conversation that you know nothing about...lol. His posts are all the same. He sees a post about android and goes in and bashes it. Well, I am done with this thread seeing how you people have given him what he wanted...arguments and controversy.

Its legal extortion. Tell me why M$ isn't going after "GOOGLE "?
Its the same tactics they use to force OEMs to license Windows for PCs.
M$ sucks at innovation and sales especially in the consumer sector.

I believe the reason they can't go after google is because they don't charge money for android. the manufacturers though, charge US through the sales of phones.
google gives android for free
samsung, htc, etc sells us android phones
Microsoft can say these manufacturers are taking my ideas and selling it and can't say the same thing to google

**** . And the arguement ensues......
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App

..........
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App

lowandbehold said:
Krale, just click on his name and look at his previous posts before you get into a conversation that you know nothing about...lol. His posts are all the same. He sees a post about android and goes in and bashes it. Well, I am done with this thread seeing how you people have given him what he wanted...arguments and controversy.
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no, I see a thread where Microsoft is made to look like the bad guy for not letting themselves be walked all over and I defend them. It's not a matter of fanboyism or what OS I favor. It's just what's right.

So umm, who's the sheep?

First of all, this is strictly an observation and will likely be locked and/or deleted by a mod (my money is on orb3000) but I have been a member of the XDA community since it first came to light, originally as a lurker and, after picking up my old ppc6800, a member. I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Now, since the g1 came out (and even before that in some winmo crowds) iPhone users have been referred to as sheep. The implication is that they blindly follow Steve Jobs and instantly accept whatever he says as a law that cannot be challenged. It also implies simple-mindedness.
As of late, I have witnessed more of this behavior coming from android fans than iOS or any other OS (and before it's implied it physically pains me to say anything positive about that jumbled mess of an OS). If you look in any android related thread that exceeds three pages, namely the "google vs...." threads then you'll witness, first of all a number of unnecessary posts. A good portion of android fans come in simply to state something along the lines of "yay google" or, "android all da way." The levels of literacy, or lack thereof, paired with the simple-minded approach of their posts is pretty much the very definition of a "sheep." Second, and in my opinion even worse, are the people who enter these threads, are fully aware of what is going on, and still treat the situation as though google is in the right and they don't deserve to get sued just because everything they are as a company is stolen. The most common argument in this type of post is that the patents are bull****. They are for trivial things that we do passively. The fact of the matter though is that this was not always the case. Case in point, I just had a discussion with someone who said that the way that we update our address book is not a valid patent. Now, in modern times updating our address books on our phone or computer is something we do in passing. However at some point the ability to do so was unheard of until someone came up with it and filed a patent. Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine? The blind following is the other side of this "sheepish" behavior.
Though I'm absolutely certain it will, this was not intended to start any wars. It's more or less a cautionary measure. Don't turn into that which you so desperately hate.

Agree. My first 'smartphone' was a temporary g1 while my Nokia(can't remember the model no. but a small metal one...) was being repaired. It WAS a revelation, but behind the then current iPhone in many ways. I subsequently went for an X10, and now an Xperia Arc despite the initial poor support from SE. I still prefer the android OS for several reasons, but ultimately the iPhone is very good at what it does. There will always be a huge argument over the open/closed OS and who are the sheep, I was pretty anti-Apple years ago but in retrospect it was just pettiness.
sinkster©

For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.

Most of the "Android ftw" or "Android is much better" posts are from people desperately trying to reach 10 posts so they can ask some question in the devs sections which has probably been asked before.
Just look at the Steve Job's or battery related threads in OT, they're full of it.

This is an interesting topic. I believe that you will find smart people and trolls in all OS camps. My belief as to why so much Android now is its success. The larger and more prominent an OS is the more backers it will have and with this comes the fools. The sheer volume of Android posts vs windows phone posts here suggests that there are more posters and thus more trolls. That being said Android 4 lyfe.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.

patents
z33dev33l said:
Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine?
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Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.

phones
z33dev33l said:
I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
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same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing

AllGamer said:
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
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I am awaiting the Galaxy Note and Galaxy Skin (I heard of the Skin from a local newspaper)
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App

lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment than in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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So true, so true

z33dev33l said:
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
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Even if I don't agree with your original point entirely I really agree with this right here.
I still refer to apple users as "iSheep" sometimes.
You just have to understand that when I say that, I am not saying that A. All apple users are sheep. B. there aren't users of microsoft or google who are sheep.
All brands have blind loyalist, all systems have flaws.
The problem I have with "iSheep" is that they don't research, think or care about what else is out there. They also accept products built to be restrictive towards them.
Sure android devices do have restrictions and flaws and fixing that voids the warranty, but at least the ground up design is based on allowing the user to do what they want.
Android is just as guilty of Apple of having followers with blind loyalty, I don't deny that nor do I ever try to.
I will also say that part of my critiquing of apple comes from the fact that apple markets directly to the users ego. They sell "cool" they don't sell devices. It is marketing gold, but as a person studying software engineering.. I absolutely abhor the way they don't market devices.. They market a reason to have arrogance and superiority complexes.
I am not saying users of other products are innocent, but nothing burns me up more than to have someone start being judgmental of my purchases because they were blessed by the all knowing god Jobs in the Apple store.
Ok, time for me to rip on android users for just a second.
Guys, I love android.. Can we get past the inferiority complex now? We have a lot of great options.. I don't care how the latest i-whatever compares.
I really don't care to see the i-whatever compared to every android product out there either. Quit treating it like an on going competition.
I mean really.. if we quit comparing devices at every single turn, we will all be that much happier.
I like to keep track of what is out and what is up and new.. But, seriously.. why even talk about i-whatever at all? they release a phone once a year.. Why compare brand new phones to ones that are in the electronics world almost legacy hardware.

this post should be moved to the question and answer forum, LOLOL

i concur iSheep vs. aSheep vs. mSheep (or wSheep?)
it's true, people should just focus on the fun thing about the latest and gadget being released.
after all that's why most of us are in here.
let the companies fight each other until there's no left
but until then as consumers lets just rip the benefits, and hack the crap out of the gadgets that we like the most.

Hey everyone I'm new to the forum. I was just reading this, and found it interesting haha. So what exactly is meant by the term "sheep"?

lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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It certainly was, though of the two posts I don't feel that mine was the only one with such intent.

AllGamer said:
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
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that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?

z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
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Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.

z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
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Should companies really be allowed to have vague and potentially ambiguous patents?
I would love to patent square box like objects then sue -
phone makers
tv makers
picture frame makers
every computer manufacturer
usb drive manufacterers.
Ect, ect, ect
I do wish people would quit worrying about what apple is doing..
On the other hand, to deny that Apple is a gigantic troll in a lot of ways is out right denial.
---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
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Another issue that I have, is patents hamper innovation.
What is the point of developing something new based on existing technology, if your only going to get sued for it anyway even if you are doing it totally different?
Now days being "inspired" by someone else is grounds for a law suit..

lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
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however, if you become noticed, become the biggest toothbrush manufacturer in the world, you can bet that whoever holds the patent will be down your throat as they should be.

according to Apple... it's no longer about patents
check out the latest court case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...duce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html
Apple also raised concerns that every Galaxy Tab sold would cost it future app sales as the users would become "Android people". Apple's iTunes App Store dominance would be challenged if customers were "seduced" or "sapped away by the Galaxy Tab and its infringements".
"They'll then be Android people and the investment in the apps that they make to purchase on their Galaxy Tab will be something they can't use on an Apple product," Apple's lawyer said.
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Samsung's lawyers have criticised the fact that Apple did not seek injunctions against previous Samsung products that would by their logic also infringe its patents. Apple's response to this was that, because Samsung is a significant supplier to Apple, it "engaged in negotiations in the first instance".
"We're not the first Android on the market and other people are getting in fast. It's critical that we're a first mover not dribble in behind everybody else. It's blossoming at the moment," Samsung's lawyer said.
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Apple real target is not really Samsung violating their patents, it's about afraid of losing market to Android, and afraid of people choosing Android over iOS, and people spending their money in Android Market than Apps Store
When Android first started with HTC and Motorola, they were not as advanced enough as the hardware spec offered by Samsung
which easily attracted a lot of people, myself included, i purchased it for the hardware.
so, clearly Apple only wants to slow Samsung down, just so people have less choices to be switched over to Android
Apple is preventing people from Choosing what they want to use, by their logic eliminating Samsung will drastically reduce the will to choose another better device and less chance of people liking another OS
so practically the same can be applied for the good phones being released by Samsung for Windows

Steve jobs hates android ??

Steve Jobs HATED Android. Right?
In recent weeks, Larry Page has come forward claiming that Steve Jobs' personal hatred towards Android was just a show. It wasn't personal, claimed Page, but was instead meant to prove to shareholder that the two companies were serious rivals. Page claims he maintained a cordial relationship with Jobs up until his death.
However, according to Jobs biographer Walter Isaacson, the late CEO of Apple really did hate Android's guts on a deep and personal level...no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Speaking last night at the Royal Institution in the UK, Isaacson provided context for Steve Jobs's Android-rage. He said that Jobs had been upset ever since Bill Gates adopted Apple's graphical user interface for Windows, then liscencing the OS to Dell, IBM and other manufacturers. And he felt like the rise of Android was a repeat of this unfair cycle of companies copying Apple's design and passing it off as if it were their own.
Jobs thought Apple devices were "almost copied verbatim by Android," Isaacson explained to the crowd. "And then they licence it around promiscuously. And then Android starts surpassing Apple in market share, and this totally infuriated him," the author added. "It wasn't a matter of money. [Jobs] said: 'You can't pay me off, I'm here to destroy you.'"
Of course, we all know where all of this hatred ended up: endless patent litigations between Apple and various Android manufacturers. Who knows if Page truly had a "cordial" relationship with Jobs, but I'm guessing not. Jobs really believed that Android had ripped him off, and seems to have completely ignored Android OS's major differences AND the fact that Apple later copied many of Android's best features.

Apple and Google have always been rivals to each other.

I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.

I Am Marino said:
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
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i never even respected him much .......... if you'd been privy to some of the internal industry scuttle butt about his manner and behaviour with employees and 3rd party partners you'd maybe feel the same way.
It was an efficient corporate manager ....... much like ebola is an efficient infection.
But mos of that efficiency was completely based on being beyond ruthless and having no regard at all for the effects his actions had on other individuals, as long as it furthered his goals.
Thats exactly why Apple gave him the boot back in the old days ..... its all documented.

Interesting little read, thank you.
I've always been intrigued about market spin on these so-called rivals, and the behind the scenes truth.

I just wonder where the anti-trust lawsuits are when Apple goes around trying to sue competitors out of existence while already having a pretty high market share in the smartphone sector.
Luckily there is an anti-trust suit going on right now about Apple fixing prices on e-books. Apparently the 50+ % markup on the iPad wasn't enough for them. I don't see how in this day and age Apple users still think Apple is morally better than Microsoft when they are really just as bad.

In technical and marketing fields, Steve was a genius.
In life, he wasn't so much lovable man.

playerpro said:
but still.. its because of Steve Jobs only i guess Android was evolved.
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No not even remotely ....... your buying into the commonly purported 'one man tech company' myth ....... anyone with a clue, who knows how a tech company actually works, knows that's utter garbage.
But is a very useful marketing/PR hook to hang the hat of a so called charismatic CEO on.
He was an efficient manager ....... with a good sense for grandiose phrasing.

i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me

rafa6571 said:
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
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Dude, grow up,
now please stop this google-apple hate-fest. What was going between Page-jobs, i think they better knew than us.

It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.

siravarice said:
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
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This is true. Its funny how apple is suing Google because they infringed on some copyrights but what about the fact that apple stole the notification pulldown. Its really kind of silly that they filed a lawsuit against Google because the froyo AOSP sliding tab lockscreen was similar to the iPhone slide to unlock lockscreen.
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Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?

He was just an angry guy, sad but true and most guys with brilliant minds who have massive ideas usually have abnormal side effects.

I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.

I Am Marino said:
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
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they're doing the exact opposite. they're like dumb kids in the sandbox throwing pebbles at each other. ice cream sandwich would have re-defined what andoid is in peoples minds, but sony/htc/samsung/etc wouldn't allow it.

It would be amazing if Android OEMs would work together and actually improve Android greatly. Sadly, they work separately and try to be better than the other OEM. This competition is good, but I think it would be better if they just worked similarly. As for Jobbs hating Android, very much expected. Just like him and Windows ;P

rdubyah said:
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
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Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?

porkchopexpress said:
Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
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I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
I have plenty of friend who have Macbooks, and they all have windows installed so they can do a lot of things, it's quite funny.
Regarding the OEM's fighting each other, they won't ever all come together to challenge Apple, especially if they can customise android to hell and back. Personally I feel if they couldn't customise it as much, the handsets would be customised more and we would actually see better, faster handsets.

siravarice said:
I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
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Most people are pleased as punch with their iPhones it seems, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps the iPhone isn't the best suited phone for YOU, but that doesn't mean its not the best suited phone for someone else.