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I can't believe I'm saying this, but the iPhone is amazing (Long post)

I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?

I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.

Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.

I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.

thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
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Click to collapse
Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.

I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V

8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
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Click to collapse
Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good

vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?

The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4

This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.

jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?

poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.

crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.

Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.

new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.

nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.

Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V

My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!

vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.

8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.

how to make the touch pro as smooth as an iphone

iphone speed and scrolling is very impressing. is there anyway to speed up the touch pro to get such speeds ?

To be honest, I don't think the iPhone is as fast as it seems. Part of the loading time is masked in the animations it uses (like when you touch an icon, it takes a little bit of time to expand teh window). It's fast, but not as fast as everyone thinks it is.
But regardless, the touch pro probably won't be as fast and smooth as the iphone, but try flashing a custom rom like Energy rom. It's built to be really fast. And having WM 6.5 gives smoother scrolling (not as good as the iphone though).

FireGX said:
To be honest, I don't think the iPhone is as fast as it seems. Part of the loading time is masked in the animations it uses (like when you touch an icon, it takes a little bit of time to expand teh window). It's fast, but not as fast as everyone thinks it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but you still have to admire the research/QA/testing they went through to make the iPhone seem as fast as possible...
that saying, you won't get that with WM... WM, apps share memory/processing power(while in iPhone, only ONE app gets all the resources at a time, except the music player that Apple can optimize as best as possible)...

They are two different beasts, you won't get them to act exactly the same
That being said, I must admit that I am quite enjoying EnergyROM 3.0 "Warhawk" - It is the fastest and smoothest WM 6.5 Rom i've installed yet (not saying i've installed much else besides energyroms, but I am quite happy with it, and looking forward to what else he releases next for the Touch Pro

cool, i might try it out
I have juicy 8, but i might try enerygy
i cant stand juicys 8 start menu and how the scrolling is so limited and every single thing is in the start are scattered.
but the touchflo is quick ...
but i use mobile shell lol...
i hate the scrollin lags on this phone
i checked out my buddies iphone and almost considered the switch. if the iphone had a keyboard, i would have switched.
its just such a quick and smooth phone.

i think my phone runs faster than an iphone.. atleast faster than my ipod touch. Running NRG's Warhawk since Aug 11. and its still smooth as the day i flashed the rom!
I think your noticing the difference in scrolling because of the screens, capacitive vs resistive.

FireGX said:
To be honest, I don't think the iPhone is as fast as it seems. Part of the loading time is masked in the animations it uses (like when you touch an icon, it takes a little bit of time to expand teh window). It's fast, but not as fast as everyone thinks it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct. The iPhone uses a lot of neat tricks to to give the perception of speed and it absolutely works. However, make no mistake about it, the iPhone really is more powerful than WinMo phones.
Aside from the new 3GS using the Cortex A8 (which only the WinMo-based TG01 can match), the OSX Mobile can also utilized the newer tech in modern CPUs unlike Windows Mobile.
I have to agree with some others, though. As someone who tried the 3GS, the fastest WinMo can come is easily EnergyRom. It is probably the smoothest WinMo ROM I know of.

8525Smart said:
You are correct. The iPhone uses a lot of neat tricks to to give the perception of speed and it absolutely works. However, make no mistake about it, the iPhone really is more powerful than WinMo phones.
Aside from the new 3GS using the Cortex A8 (which only the WinMo-based TG01 can match), the OSX Mobile can also utilized the newer tech in modern CPUs unlike Windows Mobile.
I have to agree with some others, though. As someone who tried the 3GS, the fastest WinMo can come is easily EnergyRom. It is probably the smoothest WinMo ROM I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only the iPhone has an ap for this:

The iPhone was designed from the ground up to be a touch screen friendly device, which is why it works so well. As others have said a lot of software optimization adds to that speed. I just got my wife a 3GS and have been playing around with it. It slow's down if you push it too hard.
If Microsoft would actually do something new with Windows Mobile instead of upgrading code from WM5 or older versions our phones would easily out perform it with multiple apps running. Especially with the 1ghz chips and Nvidia processors coming.
I tried other ROMs but for me the stock ROM worked the best. With the HTC update it is much faster than ever before. Keeping your memory clear your phone can be just as good as the iPhone and better in many ways. There are a lot of things the Touch Pro can do that the iPhone never will thanks to how proprietary Apple is.
If only Microsoft would stop sitting on their hands and release a brand new OS and stop upgrading....

A lot of the UI in the iPhone is graphics accelerated, very much UNLIKE Windows Mobile. Additionally, because it uses Quartz Express, it's a heck of a lot more optimized than practically any UI available for Windows Mobile, including HTC TouchFLO 3D.
I sincerely hope that this is improved in Windows Mobile 7. It has a lot of potential to provide the same smoothness as Apple delivers right now. I picked up an iPhone 3G today, and it's silky SMOOTH, but not necessarily fast...

After having qtek s100, htc touch dual, htc touch,htc diamond and htc touch pro I've finally ordered an Iphone 3GS. I've been able to have it during 2 days and have to admit it is really smooth and beautiful ! It does exactly what you want no annoying bug etc...I'm fed up with WM. Too slow, too laggy. Hopefully some like NRG has managed to make it better !

10332007 said:
If Microsoft would actually do something new with Windows Mobile instead of upgrading code from WM5 or older versions our phones would easily out perform it with multiple apps running. Especially with the 1ghz chips and Nvidia processors coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the new WinMo7 I think, and really hope, that they are rewriting the code and not just upgrading. I am anxiously awaiting the release of WinMo7 to see if it comes up and kicks some iPhone butt!

I have both devices right now and the apples scrolling is better for sure but you have to remember that only one app can run at a time. Much more performance is given to the apple vs wm.
That being said I love the fact that I can actually MULTI TASK on Windows Mobile. Which is why I upgraded to this phone. Scrolling isnt a big issue for me I think its alright (using energy rom)

Well I have been using the latest energy ROM and it is by far the fastest Rom I have used. I'm not saying it is as fast as the iPhone's animations but the rom runs smoother and faster than any other Rom I have seen befor. I'm using the 6.5 Genesis ROM.

eddyg519 said:
I have both devices right now and the apples scrolling is better for sure but you have to remember that only one app can run at a time. Much more performance is given to the apple vs wm.
That being said I love the fact that I can actually MULTI TASK on Windows Mobile. Which is why I upgraded to this phone. Scrolling isnt a big issue for me I think its alright (using energy rom)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can Multi Task on Iphone thanks to Jailbreak......and don't tell me jailbreaking is not safe cause CID and HardSPL unlock + flashing with a new ROM is the same

flashmp3 said:
You can Multi Task on Iphone thanks to Jailbreak......and don't tell me jailbreaking is not safe cause CID and HardSPL unlock + flashing with a new ROM is the same
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just gonna say that. Even after jailbreaking and multi-tasking I still feel the iPhone is more responsive than any WM device.

But the iphones are really make explosions . Win mo don`t

I dunno.... have you ever tried turning on bluetooth, gps, and wifi at the same time? My fuze gets so hot you can't touch it, I've pulled the battery before just to cool it down.

Please Mods, I implore you, close this pointless thread!
Who give a %&$* which one you like, this site is to support HTC devices which run WinMo and Android OS.
Applechians please go waste Apples bandwidth with your pointless rhetoric.

Bruce Inman said:
Please Mods, I implore you, close this pointless thread!
Who give a %&$* which one you like, this site is to support HTC devices which run WinMo and Android OS.
Applechians please go waste Apples bandwidth with your pointless rhetoric.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
get a life

The Android Lag Issue...

So I convince my sisters husband to trade in his iphone 3Gs for an HTC Desire HD. Within a week he is selling it on ebay, siteing very weak battery performance, poor multitouch implementation and general Lag as the main issues. He's actually gone back the 3GS.
I am an android fan an user. But while the poll seems to suggest the Desire HD is the best android phone of the year personally I disagree. The battery life on this device is absolutely appalling. Whats the point in having all those features when you MUST disable pretty much all connectivity/widgets etc to get a days use out of it? Personally I think it's poor engineering on HTC'S part. This in my mind shows a lack of thought as well on HTC's part.
How is it also that a device with the most ram on the market and one of the most capable CPU's is still laggy? I've seen it myself, it does pale in comparison to an iphone 4. And the multitouch implementation is also not as smooth. Now these issues wouldn't bother me as much because I love the android platform but for regular more superficial consumers who aren't looking to hack their device (like my sstsres husband) these are obvious problems and perceived as a direct indication of the superiority of apple devices.
I used to be an HTC fan but I am now becoming skeptical. My next android device will almost certainly not run sense UI as I think it is a contributing LAG factor and provides little actual benefit due to the Weak battery performance on most high end HTC devices.
So can anyone explain to me why all high end android devices are considerably more laggy and the UI's less fluid than the Iphone 4 and even the 3GS? Is it the software coding? Graphics engine? Manufacturer specific optimizations? The platform as a whole? Multi tasking? Hardware/Software integration? The way the transitions are implemented?

sere83 said:
So can anyone explain to me why all high end android devices are considerably more laggy and the UI's less fluid than the Iphone 4 and even the 3GS? Is it the software coding? Graphics engine? Manufacturer specific optimizations? The platform as a whole? Multi tasking? Hardware/Software integration? The way the transitions are implemented?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate I can't be of assistance but I have not experienced lag on my high-end android device.

I see lag and have a HTC Evo. It lags while scrolling through web pages and it lags while scrolling through the apps. This is because of the Android OS. Open up system panel and scroll up and down in the open apps and watch the cpu spike to almost 100%...WTF. This is what causes the stuttery look. It's not smooth at all compared to the Iphone.

So can anyone explain to me why all high end android devices are considerably more laggy and the UI's less fluid than the Iphone 4 and even the 3GS? Is it the software coding? Graphics engine? Manufacturer specific optimizations? The platform as a whole? Multi tasking? Hardware/Software integration? The way the transitions are implemented?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The software isn't coded to efficiently offload to the GPU.
Dalvik isn't as great as other VM implementations (like .NET CF, I'm not sure if Apple uses a VM implementation - I have used, but never owned, an iOS device).
Manufacturer additions can clog the device up.
Also, Location services running in the background (even with GPS off) use your Cell Radio - draining battery. C2DM is nice and all, but most applications are coded also to work with 2.1 devices and tend to fail at choosing which one to use exclusively on FroYo devices. This leads to more battery drain.
Widgets use too much battery power. They need something similar to Live Tiles or PUSH-based updating instead of polling for widgets. If Google would develop decent stock Widgets, we'd be less dependent on these battery draining third-party or manufacturer widgets.
Most Android phones poll for Facebook/Twitter/etc. updates at specified intervals, using up battery. In addition, the Official (and third-party) Facebook/Twitter apps poll alongside the Android integrations, using up double the amount of battery power needed to update 2-4+ separate entities with the same data. Manufacturers should just integrate the official apps, instead of making redundant integrations into the base system. Waste of resources and battery power.
The base Android system is simply less efficient than something like Symbian when it comes to conserving data and Android developers generally don't worry about these types of things until after their applications are released, and it can take them months to remedy the issues due to the inefficiencies in the code, etc.
Akulamenuri said:
I hate I can't be of assistance but I have not experienced lag on my high-end android device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then don't respond.

Thanks N8ter, nice for someone to finally shed some light on the subject. Really think they need to address some of these issues, especially if they are to change the mainstreams perceptions of the OS.
Any chance this little update's gonna help you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3pdWBlZ34&feature=player_embedded

I've yet to see any great lag on my Desire Z.
Sure, it can lag from times. But usually doesn't. This is probably because of OC and using a non-rosie rom.
Using a non-sense rom would help even more, as Sense itself causes lag.

I don't get lag on my gt540.
And thats a low end phone running 2.1.
Why you getting lag?

Well,it's mostly due to lack of UI hardware acceleration.The iCrap had it first because Apple needs to develop their OS for only one piece of hardware,which means it can be optimized in every possible way.Android and other platforms(although I think WP7 also has hardware acceleration) lack this and all of the UI is for the CPU to handle.Software rendering is zip compared to hardware,as GPUs are far more powerful than CPUs,they just use a limited instruction set,but they need no compiler.
Hope I helped!

It's a serious design flaw the needs to be addressed. Use the GPU, Luke! It feels awful using an Android handset, especially if you come from the perfect (albeit "limited" in some respects) world of another platform (I don't want to mention its name here). This problem completely shatters the user-experience.
If you, like millions of others, want to see this design flaw addressed, then cast your vote here:
(I can't post links, just search for "Android Issue 6914" - should be the first result).
Also, looks like Samsung are doing something about it with their latest Android 2.2.1 update that should be hitting the UK soon:
(again, can't post links, go to YouTube and tack this on the end of the URL: "watch?v=JpH3oX9RhIE").
(Youtube: watch?v=MkZZXeF5uV8)
At the moment, "Android" in synonymous with "lag" and "sluggishness". The above YouTube links of 2.2.1 on the Galaxy S show Android the way nature intended it to run! They show that things can be different, and we don't have to suffer that shame and embarrassment of sub-standard UI performance that's a far second to (you know who)!!
I for one am hoping Samsung's example with 2.2.1 is a sign of things to come (I've been hoping this for over 2 years now - sigh...).

I hope so as well. Lay is a major issue and to me waste battery life.

I get no lag with my vibrant even with little storage left.

I rarely ever get lag, only time I have on my Inc is when I downloaded an app that didn't agree with the phone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using......blah blah you get the idea.

Had no lag on my Nexus One with Froyo or now with Gingerbread.

galaxys said:
Had no lag on my Nexus One with Froyo or now with Gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go try the Microbes LWP. You'll soon see it

DirkGently1 said:
Go try the Microbes LWP. You'll soon see it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HaHa! I'll take your word on that one and stick with my stable rom...for now

Samsung Fascinate. No lag. Battery about the same as an iPhone unless put through rigorous usage. Amazing screen / multitouch.
Screw HTC.
Samsung Fascinate, Verizon
EB01 Superclean 2.4
Kenesis' TransMyst GBKB (EPIIIIIC)
Mob87's Honeycomb Theme
Stock Kernel

I guess you guys have less than 50 apps..I understand..really.

On my at this point low powered Eris I'm running with sense and have 60 apps installed with almost no lag
Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

I have 104 ..

My dad is using a stock Mytouch 4G and I noticed some lag when I was playing around with it, and we've only had our phones for about a month . I am running CM7 RC2 on mine and I think it's safe to say that sense is what causes a good part of the lag. I think GPU acceleration is what is needed to keep android from running dry due to laggy devices. I know a couple of people who immediatly opted to get the iPhone over android because the devices were faster.

Your opinions on ALL OSes

Ok, basically my wife is looking into a new phone and our options are more or less limitless, she just wants advantages and disadvantages of each OS. She's not picky and doesn't always need the most popular OS, she wants form, factor, and function. I am looking for a phone that will take a sim so trying to avoid Verizon and Sprint phones. Heres my opinions on the ones I can think up.
iOS-I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole personally but regardless of my personal feelings if it's jailbroken it's not actually a terrible OS just a bit bland. The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
Android- Good but often laggy even with a snapdragon. The UI customization is nice but they're killing themselves not allowing a GPU accelerated UI. I have a Dell Streak for my "fun phone" and though I love it it does seem more appealing to have a phone that "just works" for her. I dont think android will be quite as long-lived though its doing well so far. How can one expect a UI to have devoted developers when you can get anything you want free.
Windows phone 7- Perfect business device, still in what seems almost an open beta phase and lacking a lot of basic features. More promise than any other OS but for the time being it's not living up to the hype.
BadaOS-Support? What support? plays out like a bad WebOS ripoff
Blackberry-Just the most boring thing in the world. Aside from battery life I cannot seem to realize how this OS sells well outside of the old people who dont really know how to use a phone but want something high end...
WebOS- It had it's day in the spotlight and that didn't last too long... I mean its functional but feels almost dirty compared to the more modern OSes
WM6.5- Great OS for someone who wants to devote hours and hours and hours to customizing it to be the most functional OS. Sadly the only device worth having thats wm6.5 anymore is the LEO/HD2.
These are all opinions of mine, she just wants to know the opinion of others. Thanks for your input.

What is her level of technical expertise?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Moderate, a gaming device would be great but something with a pleasant UI is more appealing

If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.

joeearl13 said:
If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thank you for your reply my wife still wants WP7 but I keep trying to tell her that even though I use it it could take time to work the kinks out. She is considering android but samsung devices are hard to go with especially the galaxy S devices due to the buffer overrun issues. I think we've more or less narrowed it down to those two its just hard to pick which though she is in love with the netflix integration. I think its between the mytouch 4g and the samsung focus

The MT4G is a fantastic device. I'm sure she'd have more fun with it than WP7 and its limited options.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Now when you say limited options what do you mean? I only ask because I recently converted to windows phone 7 after tinkering with android for 2 years and never once having something that felt 'complete.' Also is there any site that I can make one of those phone histories on or do I have to use paint?

WM: The most tested OS good and stable for business, thousands of apps, tweaks, themes, etc a lot of knowledge.
Android: Nice to play with as all is new and free but I got easily bored
WP7: So new, needs more time to get mature. Too closed similar to apple

The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they aren't. The 2g is stuck on Ios 3.2, while the Iphone 4 is on 4.2. Plus the hardware in the Iphone 4 is just about as fast as Snapdragon, and cortex. Hell, the A4 is a Cortex A8.
Android- I like Android a lot, but some of the manufactures don't take it as seriously as I like, and some manufactures are terrible with updates.(Samsung) And the UI isn't hardware accelerated AFAIK. But very easy to customize, I like that. Manufactures can make Android great, or bad.(Motorola, I'm talking to you with your Motoblur crap)
Ios- I like Ios too, but there are a few issues with it. AT&T is the big one, and the second issue because of that is limited data. I can't say that it's a bad thing that to make it useful to my standards, you have to jailbreak it because every Android phone I've had I've rooted for it to work great. I wish Apple would come out with an Iphone with a screen bigger than 3.7inch. And I wish Steve would not have so much hatred towards Adobe, because that means no real flash for Iphone while it's fully capable of it. Frash is okay for the Iphone, but real flash would be better.
BB Os- I'll tell you the same thing I tell people I sell these to. Blackberry is a business phone, so don't expect the fun and colorful UI you see in other OSes. It is very simple to use though, but RIM is stuck on hardware that was released almost 2 years ago. The Pre is originally clocked at 600 mhz like the Droid, the chip inside the Torch which is the newest Blackberry is only at 624 mhz, like the Storm, the Storm 2, the Bold, etc etc. Also, Blackberry does not like to update their phones to the current OS, despite most of the phones having the same specs. It is what it is.
Windows Mobile 6.5- Not bad, but not great. A nice business OS though.
Windows Phone 7- I like it a lot, but no flash support right now is a killer. I don't mind it not having things like bluetooth transfer since I really don't use it, but I would like copy and paste. Also they need to hurry up and expand to different carriers! D:
Symbian- Personally I never used it, but people say it is very versatile.
Webos- I like Webos a lot, I really do. But there simply isn't enough support behind it from developers, which means a huge lack of apps compared to Android and Ios. The big thing that kills me about it, is the fact that the Pre only has a 3inch screen, even the Pre 2 has a 3inch screen despite having specs that can be compared to the Droid 2!
Bada- Samsung, so I can't expect too much from it. I haven't tried it though, and I really don't want to.

What kind of user is your wife? If she wants a phone that does games, txt, email etc... then you have to take into consideration what is the best at these?
IOS even with it's limitations is probably the most "polished" out there. Has a huge base of followers, tons of apps, and it does work out of the box. Sure it's bland in its interface and your locked in with AT&T and the iWorld of Apple. Not to mention that you can't do anything with the hardware itself.
Android: Catching up to Apple - but still not the "iPhone killer" - yet. I personally love Android - and with enough tweaking I don't experience lag on my Captivate. But.. I would highly suggest NOT getting a Galaxy S phone. Too many issues with the devices to merit getting. I would go with an HTC.
Win Mobile 7: Although this looks promising.. if I wanted a boring interface and all the junk that goes with the OS? I'd have an iPhone. And not to mention it's still in its infancy - so who knows if it will go the way of the Do Do bird?

Should also mention about Android, if she gets an Android phone but doesn't root it, then she'll have to deal with all the bloatware the carriers put on the phone.

Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.

For the simple love of sharing!!!
As it have been done for many years in WM
z33dev33l said:
Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Windows Phone Mango, how'd you get so full of win?

I have to say that I am just wowed at the RTM version of Windows Phone Mango. I know that the drivers are not optimized for my Dell Venue Pro due to me forcing the RTM and I know that most of you dislike WP7 but WOW. It is undoubtedly even smoother than iOS and certainly beats out the smoothness of android. I didn't think you could get smoother than iOS as the hardware is built for the OS all by the same company but kudos to windows for how amazing a job they've done. The facebook, twitter, and linkedin integration clearly exceeds the social network integration of any other OS and the gaming is just amazing. I know iOS currently has us beat in that department but with Microsofts uncanny ability to throw infinite funds at whatever the hell they need to I don't see that being an issue for too long. Aside from that the OS is buttery smooth, the market place is filling fast, it's got everything an OS needs and then some and of all the OSes I've tried on the hundreds of devices I've had, I'm in love.

My brother has a Dell Venue Pro and he's had a hell of a lot of issues with it. He just finally managed to update it to the latest version the other day so I don't know if it's managed to iron out any of the issues yet.
So what I was wondering is have you had any issues with yours? And what about after updating it to Mango?

z33dev33l said:
I have to say that I am just wowed at the RTM version of Windows Phone Mango. I know that the drivers are not optimized for my Dell Venue Pro due to me forcing the RTM and I know that most of you dislike WP7 but WOW. It is undoubtedly even smoother 1 than iOS and certainly beats out the smoothness 2 of android. I didn't think you could get smoother 3 than iOS as the hardware is built for the OS all by the same company but kudos to windows for how amazing a job they've done. The facebook, twitter, and linkedin integration clearly exceeds the social network integration of any other OS and the gaming is just amazing. I know iOS currently has us beat in that department but with Microsofts uncanny ability to throw infinite funds at whatever the hell they need to I don't see that being an issue for too long. Aside from that the OS is buttery smooth 4, the market place is filling fast, it's got everything an OS needs and then some and of all the OSes I've tried on the hundreds of devices I've had, I'm in love.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow its smooth. Who cares? Its also ugly as hell, has annoying transitions (giving you your illusion of smoothness) and is incrdibly boring. My phone is smooth, (Even American Android ROM on SD is amazing) Runs multiple operating systems, has the benefit of multiple marketplaces, and other app sources as well as multi platform games. (from classic pc games to console emulators to mobile time wasters) is fully customisable, and most importantly IS FUN!!!!!!! The only downside is the battery life. (1 day on SD android which is fair enough as I have livewallpaper and tonnes of widgets) When microsoft produces a comparable phone please let me know, but untill then have fun scrolling around your boring menus smoothly.

lol, the op is a funny guy. He hates android and then goes fanboy on wp7.
I run wp7 on my hd2 myself, running YukiXDA's v5 NoDo, and its ok, it's not as great as Android and I do feel rather limited with the tiles and simplistic menus..

hungry81 said:
Wow its smooth. Who cares? Its also ugly as hell, has annoying transitions (giving you your illusion of smoothness) and is incrdibly boring. My phone is smooth, (Even American Android ROM on SD is amazing) Runs multiple operating systems, has the benefit of multiple marketplaces, and other app sources as well as multi platform games. (from classic pc games to console emulators to mobile time wasters) is fully customisable, and most importantly IS FUN!!!!!!! The only downside is the battery life. (1 day on SD android which is fair enough as I have livewallpaper and tonnes of widgets) When microsoft produces a comparable phone please let me know, but untill then have fun scrolling around your boring menus smoothly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugly as hell? No offense but what the **** are you smoking? WP7 is hands down the best looking mobile OS on the market. It makes iOS and Android look archaic and stale by comparison.
Android has it beat on features and app count, but as for usability? NOTHING approaches the usefulness or beauty of WP7. It's UI design is award winning for a reason--because it's great .

e334 said:
lol, the op is a funny guy. He hates android and then goes fanboy on wp7.
I run wp7 on my hd2 myself, running YukiXDA's v5 NoDo, and its ok, it's not as great as Android and I do feel rather limited with the tiles and simplistic menus..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no doubt Android is the more customizable OS with the bigger app catalog, but there's nothing "simplistic" about Live Tiles--they blow icons AND widgets out of the water, especially in Mango.
There's little question that WP7 is still in its infancy, but MS nailed the user interface dead on, and with Mango it only got better (ran an iPhone for 2+ years and run Gingerbread on a rooted Nook--I like 'Droid, it's a great OS, but WP7's UI is simply superior).

hungry81 said:
Wow its smooth. Who cares? Its also ugly as hell, has annoying transitions (giving you your illusion of smoothness) and is incrdibly boring. My phone is smooth, (Even American Android ROM on SD is amazing) Runs multiple operating systems, has the benefit of multiple marketplaces, and other app sources as well as multi platform games. (from classic pc games to console emulators to mobile time wasters) is fully customisable, and most importantly IS FUN!!!!!!! The only downside is the battery life. (1 day on SD android which is fair enough as I have livewallpaper and tonnes of widgets) When microsoft produces a comparable phone please let me know, but untill then have fun scrolling around your boring menus smoothly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, your phone is smooth on wp7, runs 1 good OS and a few laggy ones with vast marketplaces, emulates (which is admittedly nice but with real high quality games on your OS who needs em?), is customizable, but regardless of customization will be laggy and ill-responsive, and if you're a crack flasher its fun. I like spending my time using my phone, not putting a new rom on it on a daily basis. I'll let you know that many years ago Microsoft released winmo5, it does all you apparently need minus the vast marketplace full of low quality apps and malware. Enjoy using a broken UI, I'll enjoy having a UI that moves when I want it to.

Racxie said:
My brother has a Dell Venue Pro and he's had a hell of a lot of issues with it. He just finally managed to update it to the latest version the other day so I don't know if it's managed to iron out any of the issues yet.
So what I was wondering is have you had any issues with yours? And what about after updating it to Mango?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the device had more than its fair share of issues before the official dell update, shotty camera, random reboots, and crappy connection all on account of poor drivers made by dell, now it's astounding. Mango just improved it, you won't find a smoother device out there.

hungry81 said:
Wow its smooth. Who cares? Its also ugly as hell, has annoying transitions (giving you your illusion of smoothness) and is incrdibly boring. My phone is smooth, (Even American Android ROM on SD is amazing) Runs multiple operating systems, has the benefit of multiple marketplaces, and other app sources as well as multi platform games. (from classic pc games to console emulators to mobile time wasters) is fully customisable, and most importantly IS FUN!!!!!!! The only downside is the battery life. (1 day on SD android which is fair enough as I have livewallpaper and tonnes of widgets) When microsoft produces a comparable phone please let me know, but untill then have fun scrolling around your boring menus smoothly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not ugly, its bold and informative.
Its not annoying transitions, its dynamic.
Its not boring, its simplistic and intuitive.
Your phone is laggy. Androids are laggy, even with supercalifragilisticexpialidocious hardware.
What's the point of running multiple OS's when you're not gonna use them all at the same time.
Emulators are lame, it can't beat the real thing.
Full customization means endless possibilities of making your phone look so good its wasting time, wasting time = waste of battery -> waste of money.
Its not fun because its laggy and ugh and yuck and spit.
Microsoft already went there, the most recent version of Windows Mobile that can be compared to andr-yuck is Windows Mobile 6.5, and then Microsoft moved on to WP7.
Have fun playing and flashing your phone.

z33dev33l said:
yup, your phone is smooth on wp7, runs 1 good OS and a few laggy ones with vast marketplaces, emulates (which is admittedly nice but with real high quality games on your OS who needs em?), is customizable, but regardless of customization will be laggy and ill-responsive, and if you're a crack flasher its fun. I like spending my time using my phone, not putting a new rom on it on a daily basis. I'll let you know that many years ago Microsoft released winmo5, it does all you apparently need minus the vast marketplace full of low quality apps and malware. Enjoy using a broken UI, I'll enjoy having a UI that moves when I want it to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm, that's going too far. Android is a great OS. It's UI is nowhere near as good as WP7's, but that doesn't make it a bad OS. Just a stale one

I sooo love the "Android is laggy" crowd. They're cute.
"Who cares about features, WP7 is smooooooooooooooth. Weeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!1111"
Erm, yeah, so is my CM7 (and I could swear the Eclair my phone came with was too).

jasongw said:
There's no doubt Android is the more customizable OS with the bigger app catalog, but there's nothing "simplistic" about Live Tiles--they blow icons AND widgets out of the water, especially in Mango.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it is just so boring, and yes, bloody ugly.
Why did MS get it's inspiration from a kid's toy? They sent out WP7's made of Lego so even MS think it looks blocky and dull. Heck they had to blackmail their staff into using WP7 handsets.
I'm sure there are a few people who are into lists and excessive scrolling, I'm one of the majority who aren't.
I do feel it's good that minority products are made though to cater for such interests.
Incidentally, have they fix the issue with listening to movies over Bluetooth with the Mango update or is it still lacking that basic feature?

z33dev33l said:
the device had more than its fair share of issues before the official dell update, shotty camera, random reboots, and crappy connection all on account of poor drivers made by dell, now it's astounding. Mango just improved it, you won't find a smoother device out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he's had more problems than just that; he can't even use the marketplace! Thanks for the reply though, might be able to convince him to get the beta even if he does have a tendency to avoid anything "not official". I'm currently just trying to keep my Omnia 7 unlocked (having problems with updating the diagnosis tool).
I'm going to avoid the fanboy flamewar that's started on this thread, though I will say that as much as I do love my WP7, I would like to get an Android alongside it. As for the iOS, well...I had an iTouch which I loved (sold it recently to get an upgrade), but I would never get it as a phone.
One thing's for sure though: They all have their pros and cons; they're all far from "perfect".

Gusar321 said:
I sooo love the "Android is laggy" crowd. They're cute.
"Who cares about features, WP7 is smooooooooooooooth. Weeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!1111"
Erm, yeah, so is my CM7 (and I could swear the Eclair my phone came with was too).
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one more updated android phone will always seem smoother than its predecessor but in comparison to a hardware accelerated UI they just aren't. I care quite a bit about features and with the release of Mango I have tons of features that I would've spent days finding on xda and the marketplace just to have a comparable device. These features are all right out of the box.

z33dev33l said:
one more updated android phone will always seem smoother than its predecessor but in comparison to a hardware accelerated UI they just aren't. I care quite a bit about features and with the release of Mango I have tons of features that I would've spent days finding on xda and the marketplace just to have a comparable device. These features are all right out of the box.
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erm coulda i swear cm7 is smooth, and if ya didn't know gingerbread android is hardware-accelerated, could be better, but it is .

Magic Oreo said:
erm coulda i swear cm7 is smooth, and if ya didn't know gingerbread android is hardware-accelerated, could be better, but it is .
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No idea where you're getting your information from but it's wrong... Samsung has modified it with the GS2 to make it about 90 percent hardware accelerated but that's about it...

I run MIUI with a custom kernel that is underclocked to .8 and it runs smooth as butter. Plus, its entirely themeable so if the UI gets boring, just switch it. I also get almost 2 days of battery with mild use. WP7 is cool but I think it still has a lot of catching up to do.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA Premium App

xaccers said:
But it is just so boring, and yes, bloody ugly.
Why did MS get it's inspiration from a kid's toy? They sent out WP7's made of Lego so even MS think it looks blocky and dull. Heck they had to blackmail their staff into using WP7 handsets.
I'm sure there are a few people who are into lists and excessive scrolling, I'm one of the majority who aren't.
I do feel it's good that minority products are made though to cater for such interests.
Incidentally, have they fix the issue with listening to movies over Bluetooth with the Mango update or is it still lacking that basic feature?
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I don't find it dull at all. I see where it could be, if you lumped all your same color tiles together, but I stagger them out and pin other apps with colorful live tiles to my start screen and it ends up looking very nice.
But issue #1 is simple usability. WP7 has it in spades, Android and iOS don't, at least not to the same degree. And as a 2+ year iPhone user and current iPad and Android on Nook user, I'll tell you this: I spend FAR less time scrolling in WP7 than in either of the other OS's.
As for A2DP, it works fine for me and always has.

Magic Oreo said:
erm coulda i swear cm7 is smooth, and if ya didn't know gingerbread android is hardware-accelerated, could be better, but it is .
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CM7 IS smooth, and it's a very nice OS. But it's not as smooth or as fast as WP7, especially Mango.

TheMavic said:
I run MIUI with a custom kernel that is underclocked to .8 and it runs smooth as butter. Plus, its entirely themeable so if the UI gets boring, just switch it. I also get almost 2 days of battery with mild use. WP7 is cool but I think it still has a lot of catching up to do.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA Premium App
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I agree that it has some catching up to do in the feature set, but Mango really does get it about 90% of the way there. It's removed every major ***** I had early on (and I had a lot ), and added features I didn't think I would care about but turned out to be fantastic. I truly can't see myself switching off WP going forward ever again.