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Hi Guys
My first introduction to Android world was through the Samsung Galaxy S. I have to say that my experience with android on the galaxy S was unpleasant as the phony UI would be smooth at boot time, but it would get laggy as you use the phone, and after sometime it gets so laggy that a reboot is needed.
There was a big debate on the Galaxy S forum here and the conclusion was that lag was due to the file system that Samsung used (RFS) and the unoptimized touchwiz interface, not to the Android OS itself
I have been tracking the release of LG Optimus 2x which is supposed to be a beast in terms of CPU and GPU power, and when I asked the guy who owns a test unit about the same topic as above, his reply was that he faced lag and had to reboot after using the phone for sometime. Check link below post # 14
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=935909&page=2
So might there be a possibility that lag is pertinent to the Android system itself as lagging seems to be there in most android phones ????
I am posting this topic as i am planning on buying a new phone and i have to decide whether i should buy one of the new Android phones (Motorola Atrix, Samsung Galaxy S2, LG optimus 2x, etc) or try another OS.
Thanks for your feedback
I've noticed it in all Android devices that i've played with. It's even visibly noticable in videos where others are demonstrating their handsets. For me it's most noticeable in scrolling, whether it be through a list, changing homescreens, or using the browser.
Some Android users vehemently deny it exists even though i can see it while they use their phone in front of me! Fortunately we're not the only people to see this as there are many others with similar experiences.
For now i'm just chalking it up to the relative immaturity of the platform.
I own a Galaxy S also and when im on custom roms there is no lag. However stock galaxy s is super slow and laggy. I find that the droid phones are also very laggy! And don't get me started on the web browsing! the iPhone has the smoothest web browsing I've seen. Web browsing on android is a joke!
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question
Has anyone owned an android device before and not experienced lag at all ?
how about HTC, the new devices like the Desire HD, does it lag too after a couple of hours of usage ?
I've had a desire HD for about 2-3 weeks, so far i've had to reboot at least 5 times, a friend also got one at a similar time and I know he has had some issues with lag aswell, I'm tempted to install a custom rom and see if that helps, even if it doesn't at least it will get rid of all the [email protected] software which is installed by HTC & Orange by default..... (think amazon MP3, the stock games and Orange app store etc)
Surely lag exists, as I've experienced it myself. But I've never gotten lag to a point where I would have to reboot to make it smooth again. I've had a few (< 10) crashes where I had to force the phone to close, but it's not such a nuisance for me.
I've also never owned a phone wherein I didn't have to flash anything (probably because I've always sticked to Samsung even though their software isn't on par with the others). However I find that once I start to use custom ROMs, most if not all the lag and problems disappear. I think it could be attributed to a lot of factors, not just the OS itself.
YMMV, though.
codewisp said:
Surely lag exists, as I've experienced it myself. But I've never gotten lag to a point where I would have to reboot to make it smooth again. I've had a few (< 10) crashes where I had to force the phone to close, but it's not such a nuisance for me.
I've also never owned a phone wherein I didn't have to flash anything (probably because I've always sticked to Samsung even though their software isn't on par with the others). However I find that once I start to use custom ROMs, most if not all the lag and problems disappear. I think it could be attributed to a lot of factors, not just the OS itself.
YMMV, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What other Factors ? Every android device from vendors like samsung, htc, etc lags
How about the pure android experience like the nexus one or nexus S, has any one noticed whether they lag or not
DirkGently1 said:
I've noticed it in all Android devices that i've played with. It's even visibly noticable in videos where others are demonstrating their handsets. For me it's most noticeable in scrolling, whether it be through a list, changing homescreens, or using the browser.
Some Android users vehemently deny it exists even though i can see it while they use their phone in front of me! Fortunately we're not the only people to see this as there are many others with similar experiences.
For now i'm just chalking it up to the relative immaturity of the platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The lag you experience is because of a UI driven by CPU instead of GPU (iOS, WP7). Android 3.0 Honeycomb adds advanced hardware acceleration, this will absolutely make lag on Android history.
i own a droid eris and i rarely experience lag. This is due to a very devoted developer we have (punkaos). Anyway, my point is that with a good rom any phone can be lag free.
Alexander6501 said:
The lag you experience is because of a UI driven by CPU instead of GPU (iOS, WP7). Android 3.0 Honeycomb adds advanced hardware acceleration, this will absolutely make lag on Android history.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand from your note that iOS and WP7 use the GPU not the CPU for driving the UI, that is why they are much smoother
I have to disagree as lag is incremental and increases as you use the phone further (open and close applications), it gets to the point where sometimes you have to reboot
If what you said is true then lag severity is constant throughout and does not increase with time, which is not the case
I'm on HTC desire and I believe e what most are talking about is transitions not lag,I think the way Android handles transitions or lack of having them is what you see as lag, for example when I open safari on my iPhone there's a beautiful transition that's silky smooth were it expends from the icon, its fast and smooth but it takes time
Now recently on the desire I installed the fly in transition and set window transitions to slow and the results are very smooth, but I still don't have an exit transition or a modified one so any notifications just disappear instead of floating away . Plus this is only for android menus and like the market. Also install task killer and set it to stop extra apps that are left running every hour.
I reboot my phone probably once a week if that's too hard for people they shouldn't use phones or computers . At the end of a week ny phones just as fast as at the beginning
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Transitions are only a small part of lag. The lag I am referring to has to do more with very bad memory management
Alexander6501 said:
The lag you experience is because of a UI driven by CPU instead of GPU (iOS, WP7). Android 3.0 Honeycomb adds advanced hardware acceleration, this will absolutely make lag on Android history.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep.
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
I am torn between the Samsung Focus and Samsung Captivate. I like the look of WP7, but I also like the rich features of Android. I have tried out both, and honestly I like the WP7 interface and keyboard better. I am 14 so I do lots of texting and the WP7 keyboard beats Android's by a long shot, but I like the widgets and general openness of Android. Can you give me any suggestions?
Well, I also had the decision between Android and WP7. I took WP7 because Android felt a bit laggy =/ Windows Phone 7 looks simple but is very stable and there are lots of features (and the next Update will bring about 500 new ones).
I had to choose between WP7 and Android 6 month ago. I took a WP7 (an Omnia 7 because Bouygues Telecom didn't have the HTC 7 Mozart that I wanted).
I made my choice for the UI of WP7, very simple, all apps have the same UI, and no complicated non-intuitive menus. But I can't share contacts via Bluetooth or use my phone like USB-key; Generally this actions happen rarely but I see and use Metro UI and Metro UI apps every days.
I hope that my English will be good enough.
I am having HTC desire, just ordered HTC Mozart, android though good but is very laggy sometimes with horrible battery life, hope Mozart has better battery, the WP7 UI is good and simple am amazed with new features coming in Mango
I used WP7 for 3 months. Liked it very much but limitations made me crazy. It was LG Optimus 7.
Than I took SE Arc and man that's awesome. Android is miles ahead, whatever WP7 offers. And you know, battery life is a myth now. Arc is working even longer on one charge than WP7 device. As well as lagginess, it's also a myth now.
However it's a matter of personal choices.
And be careful, this thread can turn into war soon
WP7 of course!
Even had a SGS 2 for two weeks but was really disappointed with Android.. so i just bought a WP7 phone and im not chaning back anytime soon! All the features im missing will get fixed in Mango so.. =)
WP7 for me
Hi Laura331,
I originally chose Android and purchased an entry level ZTE Blade handset (also known as the orange San Fransisco) and was not very pleased with the supplied O/S so i decided to root it and run the Cyanogen mod. It was nice looking and functional but it did lag quite a bit and then i found that one of the cyanogen mod updates had a virus written into it and that my telephone bill went through the roof due to a rogue auto dial application, needless to say the device was wiped and i started again with the Japanese Jellyfish mod (also nice looking but performance was worse than Cyanogen)
After all this i was of the opinion that Android is much the same as the old WM6.5. Choose a ROM, Build, squash bugs, wait for decreased performance, wipe and repeat.
Now i still have the Blade but sorry Dom (above) i have to disagree about the resolution of the bugs that i am still seeing with every Android rom, maybe its the entry level handset. However if that is the case the argument for better hardware being needed to run Android rings true.
Anyway i then bought an HD7 and although there were a few important things missing for me i have found that i can quite easily use it as a daily driver, its smooth, literally bug free (no restarts or ROM wipes) and is very tactile, infact its everything that WM6.5 and Android isnt. Add to this the plethora of tweaks and improvments coming with Mango and you have a mature O/S (that has hit the scene amazingly quickly) almost at a par with the years old and very experienced apple iOS, i fear Android may be running to catchup sooner than expected.
Either way my personal preference is the WP7 O/S but i suggest you try both handsets and utilise the 30 day cool down period with each handset to properly make your decision.
Kind Regards,
Creamy
creamy said:
Hi Laura331,
Now i still have the Blade but sorry Dom (above) i have to disagree about the resolution of the bugs that i am still seeing with every Android rom, maybe its the entry level handset. However if that is the case the argument for better hardware being needed to run Android rings true.
Creamy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without a doubt these problems exist. But as you pointed, Android exists on so many different devices, also on phones with lower specs which are ALWAYS quite buggy/laggy and much worse in performance. You have no idea how WP7 or iOS would behave in those circumstances just because there is no comparison. There is a reason why 1st gen WP7 had such strict hardware limitations.
As for speed - SE Arc is exactly the same hardware as WP7 but it's even snappier.
doministry said:
Without a doubt these problems exist. But as you pointed, Android exists on so many different devices, also on phones with lower specs which are ALWAYS quite buggy/laggy and much worse in performance. You have no idea how WP7 or iOS would behave in those circumstances just because there is no comparison. There is a reason why 1st gen WP7 had such strict hardware limitations.
As for speed - SE Arc is exactly the same hardware as WP7 but it's even snappier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you there.
I had an Arc (got it with my contract) along with my Omnia 7(bought it loose before), and it is not smoother than my Omnia.
While you can argue that Android has more functionality, WP7 is just smoother and far more pleasant to use (for me, IMO).
doministry said:
Without a doubt these problems exist. But as you pointed, Android exists on so many different devices, also on phones with lower specs which are ALWAYS quite buggy/laggy and much worse in performance. You have no idea how WP7 or iOS would behave in those circumstances just because there is no comparison. There is a reason why 1st gen WP7 had such strict hardware limitations.
As for speed - SE Arc is exactly the same hardware as WP7 but it's even snappier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SE Arc has not the same hardware, it has a MSM8255 and WP7 has a QSD8250
45nm vs 65nm and Adreno 205 vs Adreno 200 (205 is a GPU 2x faster than the 200)
if you want lag on your phone on a regular basis, android is your best bet.
all that lag on android is now a myth, is a myth.
...if you like to spend hours fiddling with your phone, flashing, tweaking, than Android is your best choice. If you like something smooth and easy to use, with maybe for the time being a little less functions, then I recommend WP7....
I used to be a WM "power user", the todays equivalent of Android, flashing and customizing whatever I could get hands on, but I now enjoy the relaxing smoothness of my HTC Mozart, just doing what I need, right out of the box....
FTC said:
...if you like to spend hours fiddling with your phone, flashing, tweaking, than Android is your best choice. If you like something smooth and easy to use, with maybe for the time being a little less functions, then I recommend WP7....
I used to be a WM "power user", the todays equivalent of Android, flashing and customizing whatever I could get hands on, but I now enjoy the relaxing smoothness of my HTC Mozart, just doing what I need, right out of the box....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I kept my Blade for flashing and playing with O/S's as that is what Android is best at, however if the stock ROM's do not improve significantly (for all android hardware) Android will be viewed by many as an alternative to WM6.5 not WP7.
It will never be my daily driver due to the virus i had, potentailly compromised open source apps without a decent antivirus (which will no doubt crucify the O/S and HW) cannot be trusted.
I guess there is an advantage to closed source
Regards,
Creamy
Xylias said:
Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you there.
I had an Arc (got it with my contract) along with my Omnia 7(bought it loose before), and it is not smoother than my Omnia.
While you can argue that Android has more functionality, WP7 is just smoother and far more pleasant to use (for me, IMO).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but equally WP7 is slooower in many areas like scrolling for instance.
dada051 said:
SE Arc has not the same hardware, it has a MSM8255 and WP7 has a QSD8250
45nm vs 65nm and Adreno 205 vs Adreno 200 (205 is a GPU 2x faster than the 200)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay thanks for correction.
doministry said:
Yes but equally WP7 is slooower in many areas like scrolling for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scrolling??
Are you sure young man? Android scrolling is an abomination in comparison with WP7, infact i think it was the smoothness of operational functionality like scrolling that Xylias was referring to.
Regards,
Creamy
To the OP, Doministry is correct to say you should check out both and go with what you prefer, the ony caveat to that is that any WP7 you try right now does not have Mango which will add a ton of new features to WP7 in a couple of months time.
laura331 said:
I am torn between the Samsung Focus and Samsung Captivate. I like the look of WP7, but I also like the rich features of Android. I have tried out both, and honestly I like the WP7 interface and keyboard better. I am 14 so I do lots of texting and the WP7 keyboard beats Android's by a long shot, but I like the widgets and general openness of Android. Can you give me any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have Vibrant which is related to captive an these has to be the best phones out there an there almost a year old the gpu blows anything out there out of the water an u can flash roms which makes it feel like u have a new phone every time an android is pretty smooth even do it doesn't have hardware acceleration an really wp7 is boring :-/ an future look dim an android has ics coming which is gonna add hardware acceleration also app store sucks actually my friend had WP7 an he brought it back 2 days later to get droid X
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Don't get the captivate. I rather you suffer WP7 limitations. However if you could afford a SGS2 or a HTC Sensation 4g, go for it . No lag, twice as smooth, no restrictions, better apps, real multi player games, docstogo which is pawning unreleased mango office. On the HTC you can even remove bloat without root, and it has the HTC hub.
No need to flash roms or fiddle with your phone. Unless you want to, you have the option.
Edit
I have a vibrant. Had a HD7.
Valid arguments can be made in either direction so, ultimately, it comes down to personal taste. What do you want from your phone?
I personally feel that, compared to WP7, Android is "boring". We've had static icons since the days of Windows 3.1. Aside from Live Tiles, there is so much built into the OS that just works right out of the box...and works well. Apps will come, if that's your thing, but i wouldn't base your purchase on that.
WP7 offers a very fluid experience and does it with style. Just about everything that other phones can do will be there soon except it will be in a different context. One that i find to be new and exciting.
I'm not saying "Android Sux" or anything as it does have it's merits, it just wasn't for me. Just more "same old same old".
PRESS THANKS IF YOU LIKE THE POST!!
The news comes straight in the form of two posts over on Google’s struggling social network Google+: one by a Google engineer who talks about how graphics work on Android and the other by a 3rd year software engineering student in reply to the first post. Both are pretty lengthy and can get pretty technical, so we’ll try simplifying it as much as we can.
We’ll start off with Google engineer Dianne Hackborn’s post. She states that hardware acceleration – i.e. using the GPU, instead of CPU alone, to render the user-interface – has existed on Android since version 1.0 for things such as sliding the notification bar, pop-up dialogues etc. Full hardware acceleration only came with Android 3.0 Honeycomb and, unsurprisingly, Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich actually has the same kind of hardware acceleration and this won’t necessarily sweeten things up.
Hackborn states that hardware acceleration “is not all full of win” since it takes away a lot of RAM when used for devices like Nexus S, Galaxy Nexus with OpenGL. Each process takes about 8MB of RAM and “isn’t worth it” considering the minimal effect it has on how “smooth” the UI looks after implementing it. So yes, hardware acceleration certainly helps, but it takes far too much processing power for it to be implemented to all parts of the UI.
She ends her post on how full, complete, A-to-Z hardware acceleration that results in 60 frames-per-second graphics is simply not possible, even with powerful chips like the Tegra 2.
Now, the question arises: why is it that even seemingly outdated phones like the iPhone 3GS offer a smoother UI than the latest Android smartphones? iOS uses hardware acceleration and that too on weaker hardware. How does Apple’s engineers manage to pull it off, then? Why can’t Google do the same?
That has been answered by Andrew Munn – software engineering student, ex-intern at Google and future intern with Windows Phone 7 team at Microsoft – who states that UI rendering processes in iOS occur with dedicated threads with real-time priority whereas on Android, UI rendering processes occur along with the main thread with normal priority. Whenever an iOS devices detects touch, it stops other processes and focuses all attention to rendering the UI. Android devices don’t do this, instead general processing and UI rendering occurs concurrently which results in choppy UI.
OMG....now developers...any help!!
First of all, it's all in our minds that gingerbread and ICS are all so much better than their predecessors. In reality, if you want 99.99% lag-free, just flash froyo 2.2.1 onto your Galaxy S. I've used JVQ, JVR,JVS, JVT, L41D's ICS and a bunch of custom roms, but the most lag free of all roms was Froyo ZSJPK.
So full acceleration will be in ics OK.
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Drift spunk said:
So full acceleration will be in ics OK.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No... The article said they will try to compensate for it with ram. Hardware acceleration well be turned off if it in fact makes the phone slower.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
To my mind, the Android way is the only real multitasked way (if what the intern says is correct...)
Sounds rather silly to stop all background tasks if you touch the screen?
k|zer said:
To my mind, the Android way is the only real multitasked way (if what the intern says is correct...)
Sounds rather silly to stop all background tasks if you touch the screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude which background process is using your GPU??
It sounds correct, and like some one says, its really random, i mean... you may use a GB and is super smooth, or an ICS and everyone claim it to be super smooth, and for me, is not, and is not by any mean... lets hope, in some ways this things to be corrected at some point...
k|zer said:
To my mind, the Android way is the only real multitasked way (if what the intern says is correct...)
Sounds rather silly to stop all background tasks if you touch the screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, but obviously Apple obviously value smooth UI above strict task scheduling... personally I don't care for style over substance... But if it's THAT important to someone buying a phone for it to look far better than it actually functions, they buy an iPhone!
I LOLd... then I LOLd again. Then stopped, had a deep breath and LOLd for the 3rd time.
So iOS is better because it gives priority to UI rendering, meaning that if you touch the screen like you're possessed, you get low framerate, and that sounds ok to you.
Ok.
That's a different approach, and may I remind you that multitasking was added (well, kinda...) to iOS in... like... 4.0? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS#Multitasking
next gen phones with 2 gb ram
absro said:
So iOS is better because it gives priority to UI rendering, meaning that if you touch the screen like you're possessed, you get low framerate, and that sounds ok to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about?
There are no fps drops.
Actually iOS (and WP7) is incredibly smooth, unlike android.
And to be honest that's a huge advantage for those OSes.
It just feels better.
Android seems to be targeting quantity rather than quality.
At least for now.
The only reason android lag is because of low ram. My galaxy s lags when on JVT and ICS because the free ram is always less than 120mb, hence the cpu has to constantly close and reopen background processes. But on froyo 2.2.1, I always have more than 150mb of free ram and it never lags.
---------- Post added at 01:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ----------
k|zer said:
To my mind, the Android way is the only real multitasked way (if what the intern says is correct...)
Sounds rather silly to stop all background tasks if you touch the screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me, the only true multitasker that doesn't sleep your programs without your permission or keep programs running when you actually want to exit them are symbian and maemo. At least on those two, when you exit an app, it really exits and when you minimize an app, it really minimizes.
On a multi (core) cpu only bandwidth should limit performance. Using a proper kernel / scheduler it is possible to dedicate a certain amount of processing power to any thread. Why not to the ui?
never say never.
ICS on my galaxy nexus is incredibly smooth.
zyo said:
never say never.
ICS on my galaxy nexus is incredibly smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
teamhacksungs ICS on my i9000 is pretty darn smooth already- Not having seen it on the Galaxy Nexus in person, I can imagine it runs like a dream
moonbeamsyndicate said:
teamhacksungs ICS on my i9000 is pretty darn smooth already- Not having seen it on the Galaxy Nexus in person, I can imagine it runs like a dream
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not smooth. Don't be a dreamer. But it will be smooth. We are sure.
For me 2.3.6 is the most stable stock rom I have ever used. And after adding tweaks and semaphore on deodexed jvx its just better. It dances on my fingers but still their are things which are not as smooth as they should be or can be. I don't think it's is that smooth, windows 7 is smoother(ios Is also pretty smooth but after using them personally I found that wp7 is smoother) . But whatever it is, android is just getting better and better so no problem. Regarding cm9 or ics ports, they are not as good as some people claim. They are good but the best ics will be from samsung. Still I am pretty sure cm 9 will be very good once it goes into nightly.
burakgon said:
It's not smooth. Don't be a dreamer. But it will be smooth. We are sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes not smooth but has less fc's all over other android versions
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zyo said:
never say never.
ICS on my galaxy nexus is incredibly smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got one as well. It's not that smooth, in fact it seems less smooth than my Galaxy S II.
If it is just about priority, will this app help ?
https://market.android.com/details?...SwyLDEsInNvYXBib3guc3ltM3RyeS5tcm5pY2VndXkiXQ..
Before I begin, I am fairly new to posting actively on XDA but I am far from new to XDA and Android. Please also note that I am not a developer or Android coder I am a Grad Student with much interest in technology and of course the Nexus S being it's my baby
So, this is all in reference to two things, one is this artical posted by a ex-Google intern, in reply to a former Google Android engineer. https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS and two, the latest and greatest Ice Cream Sandwich.
The post is about why Android phones UI is generally more laggy compared to the likes of Windows Phone, and iOS. I am not going to go into details much on this so please read the link, it is really quite interesting.
Here are my two cents on the whole UI Lag discussion that I thought I would bring up here to see what you guys think.
I am currently using a normal Nexus S rooted and running the Crossbones ICS ROM, and I have used many other ICS ROMs as well. Before I rooted my phone and tried out some custom ROMs, I was using stock Android 2.3.X for several months, and I was satisfied... but not impressed with the visuals Android had to offer. True I knew all about Android before buying the phone but I was expecting a little more from Google' flagship device (At the time) and was wanting a little more eye candy: Thus leading to me rooting the phone after much debate of waiting for ICS to officially come out or skipping into the joys of early betas and amazing 2.3.X ROMs. Now, being a person who likes a good looking ROM and all the smooth eye candy I went over to MIUI for quite some time (BrainMasters 2.3.7 version) and I stuck to it for a fair time. MIUI was a vast improvement in the browser, UI and everything in general which is why I liked it so much, yet it was still totally stable and very fast.
Moving on to ICS, now in fairness I am not using a official ICS ROM but all the ones I have tried were identical in overall differences that I may mention.
With Android 4.0 I noticed that there was a IMMEDIATELY noticeable difference in the design (I really love a good looking ROM) and more importantly the smooth performance of... EVERYTHING! To more clearly state my point here is what I mean mostly...
Android 2.3.X
Load up desktop version of YouTube and I scroll around finding...
-Delay in response time
-Drop in FPS
-Video and flash content is very choppy and doesn't hold to frame well
-Pinch to zoom works smooth but initial response is delayed
etc.
Android 4.0.3
Load up desktop version of YouTube (Or ANY webpage I have tried on it) and see...
-Response is immediate and very smooth on scroll
-DOES NOT JITTER WHEN FULLY ZOOMED OUT
-Pinch to zoom works 100%
-Maintains high FPS no noticed drops
-(Amazingly...) Flash content on all sites tried stays not only in frame and in tact with the page but video plays at a CONSISTENT FPS (Something Dual-Core 2.3 phones suffer on!)
-Sometimes has to reload certain areas once panned and or zoomed.
I encourage you to test this yourself if you can on both versions
The battle claimed in link I posted is that you can have a smooth UI but background processes suffer, well on Android 4.0.3 it seems they have both, because it is smooth (As your eyes will tell you) and it loads say for example images on a website AS you scroll and zoom where as in iOS sometimes pinch to zoom or scroll will stop all loading. Websites with timers are a good example...
iPhone/iOS
Zooming/Panning with a timer on the webpage FREEZES the timer.
Android 2.3.X
Zooming/Panning with a timer may stop the timer, but when fingers are released countdown continues depending on how many seconds you held your finger down.
Android 4.0.3
Zooming/Panning with a timer keeps timer going and displays it accurately.
Basically what the engineer claims is that iOS prioritizes the look, and animation rendering thread, over anything else, and Android runs it along with everything else, and if Android chose to change this, then they would need a total framework re-write (Almost out of the question considering the consequences of such) Yet to me it seems like those Google engineers have worked out both?...
I am again not a coding person so if you are I would love to hear why this is?
Any input on this from your perspectives?
Reserved
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
Shark_On_Land said:
Reserved
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do people reserve on here?
LGIQEXPO said:
iPhone/iOS
Zooming/Panning with a timer on the webpage FREEZES the timer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It think it's kinda normal. The iPhone is not multi-task at all, when you do something, everything is paused and the processor is only working on what you're doing.
It's designed so.
Interesting though, thanks for the share.
kooskoos1814 said:
It think it's kinda normal. The iPhone is not multi-task at all, when you do something, everything is paused and the processor is only working on what you're doing.
It's designed so.
Interesting though, thanks for the share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So its a bfs kernel?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
LGIQEXPO said:
Why do people reserve on here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this Knowledge is key.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
LGIQEXPO said:
Android chose to change this, then they would need a total framework re-write
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's basically the TLDR.
Now, what will Google do? Probably nothing, quad cores are around the corner and rumors of today are, they'll start with their own HW.
They need to focus really fast, if they don't want to become the next Microsoft. Android has a large user base by now, but in this year, WP will come closer and closer. More and more larger apps from iOS & Android are now ported on this platform, which doesn't have UI framework issues and is quite well polished to run on older HW (comparison: HTC Desire vs HTC Trophy).
I was saddened to realize that Apple did the multitasking right. Why ?
Well, multitasking on the PC is not the same as on the phone. You don't have apps side by side.
So when I'm interacting with an app, I want full UI response and don't care what's running in the background or what system is doing. It should listen to ME and STOP anything else. That's why the iOS is so fluid.
Androids Intent system is brilliant, also the notification stuff. But as in UX, Apple (and MS - they went more Apple style here) knows what they're doing.
The older Androids suffered from the effects of a true multitasking system, though even the now dating single core Nexus S can easily and happily runs the latest and greatest practically lag free. The biggest factor in all of this is the kernel - the only one which i find noticeable lag in is the stock kernel. This should be the first place google looks at in upcoming devices, even though such enhancements aren't even needed anymore (all SGS2s i've used are comparable to the iphones fluidity).
In the coming years apple will likely fall behind. Phones are becoming like computers, and hell so many people are using phone OSs as a computer replacement (i'm looking at you, tablets).
A couple of rough years with weaker-than-preferred hardware are, in my opinion, worth it for getting a several year headstart. I'm normally not for an OS requiring lots of hardware to keep up, but the damn thing has more pretty effects than my windows desktop. Try running windows xp with 512mb of ram and a 1.4ghz celeron processor and let us remember what progress requires.
Harbb said:
The older Androids suffered from the effects of a true multitasking system, though even the now dating single core Nexus S can easily and happily runs the latest and greatest practically lag free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but anyone saying any Android is lag free, compared to 60fps iOS fluidity - needs to get an eye surgery.
madd0g said:
Sorry, but anyone saying any Android is lag free, compared to 60fps iOS fluidity - needs to get an eye surgery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lags in certain apps. Like twitter. However general UI is lag free. Lag comes here and there however.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
In general comparisons to an iphone 4 it really is not far off. Browsing around home screens and app menu and working with them is on par. Switching back and forth in the settings menu takes its time in comparison, which is definitely a pain, as well as lag when doing something that hasn't been done in a while. Some apps tend to fail with scrolling lists for reasons i do not know; not caching images maybe?
The iPhone definitely is better with the UI, there are no doubts here. But in a couple of days of switching back and forth it is starting to seem more fluid because of how iOS reacts with scrolling and the likes - it's very sensitive and flings around for a long time. I noticed this when playing with a 3gs and 4 next to each other, the 3gs was lagging but still felt very fluid - somehow.
Multi core cpus are the cure to this lag. Simple. I experience this lag on minor occasions with my nexus. I'm sure if I had a gnex I'd never notice it at all. Android does so much more than ios. As so, its not gonna run as smooth no matter what. I'd take a slightly laggy, fully functional ui over a closed in, non multitasking, uncustomizable heap of hipster trash anyday.
pwnd by my ns4geee yo
madd0g said:
That's basically the TLDR.
Now, what will Google do? Probably nothing, quad cores are around the corner and rumors of today are, they'll start with their own HW.
They need to focus really fast, if they don't want to become the next Microsoft. Android has a large user base by now, but in this year, WP will come closer and closer. More and more larger apps from iOS & Android are now ported on this platform, which doesn't have UI framework issues and is quite well polished to run on older HW (comparison: HTC Desire vs HTC Trophy).
I was saddened to realize that Apple did the multitasking right. Why ?
Well, multitasking on the PC is not the same as on the phone. You don't have apps side by side.
So when I'm interacting with an app, I want full UI response and don't care what's running in the background or what system is doing. It should listen to ME and STOP anything else. That's why the iOS is so fluid.
Androids Intent system is brilliant, also the notification stuff. But as in UX, Apple (and MS - they went more Apple style here) knows what they're doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but none the Apps I use are on Windows Phone. I've even ask developers to port some apps over, and their answers were all the, "its not worth it".
Yeah its smooth, but that's it. I'll buy a iPhone if I want looks over function.
Fyi, everything is not 60 fps on IOS, just like Android.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
RushAOZ said:
Multi core cpus are the cure to this lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just a poor excuse for bad OS architecture planning and inefficient coding. A perfect proof for that is the above stated comparison of HTC Desire & HTC Trophy. Same hardware, totally different UI response.
And HW ain't the solution, unless they suddenly make a magical battery that lasts longer. You can't just stuff hardware and hope for the best. That's why proper coding on embedded devices is so important.
---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
vetvito said:
Sorry but none the Apps I use are on Windows Phone. I've even ask developers to port some apps over, and their answers were all the, "its not worth it".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, at this point. But I see more and more apps that were ported first from iOS to Android, now being ported to WP and the number of major apps IS rising, even faster then it was for Android in 2009/2010.
Google can't sleep now, when he's still on the top.
Another point: they have more and more inconsistency issues then ever, just see the Nexus line. New device is on an older 4.0.2 , old dev phone is on 4.0.3, but not the 4G version. Hilarious. They managed to get their own phone line fragmented.
They start many different new services, then they get behind with trying to fit them all together, UI wise or function wise. Then in the middle they change the UI look. Like chasing their own tail.
We could go on and on, but if they want to make drastic changes for anything on the OS, now it's still the time. Specially since now there's an opportunity when they develop the next Android version.
madd0g said:
That's just a poor excuse for bad OS architecture planning and inefficient coding. A perfect proof for that is the above stated comparison of HTC Desire & HTC Trophy. Same hardware, totally different UI response.
And HW ain't the solution, unless they suddenly make a magical battery that lasts longer. You can't just stuff hardware and hope for the best. That's why proper coding on embedded devices is so important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do understand how hardware grows? Smaller chips equal less power consumption. Like how the gs2 has better battery life than my nexus.. hardware IS the cure. This is why quad cores are being brought in so early. Do you not think Google knows this? Besides is this "lag" that big a deal to you folks?? Its barely noticeable on my nexus. My buddy just switched over from an iPhone 4 to an epic touch 4g and he wont stop talking about it. He's owned it for a month now and he always rubs in my face how fast it is and how lag free it is compared to his iPhone 4.
pwnd by my ns4geee yo
RushAOZ said:
You do understand how hardware grows? Smaller chips equal less power consumption. Like how the gs2 has better battery life than my nexus.. hardware IS the cure. This is why quad cores are being brought in so early. Do you not think Google knows this? Besides is this "lag" that big a deal to you folks??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it grows slowly, because the makers of HW want to collect $ from each iteration. HW is not the cure, it's one part of the equation. Power is nothing without control.
Yes, I think any micro lag is a BIG thing. Have you ever worked behind the PC with a ****ty/old mouse with the ball + a worn out mouse pad ? It stuck, skipped etc. Or consider moving your mouse around in on the desktop and the cursor stutters from the time to time. It's like someone slapping you in the face every single time. And that not what I expect from a couple hundred dollar device.
madd0g said:
That's just a poor excuse for bad OS architecture planning and inefficient coding. A perfect proof for that is the above stated comparison of HTC Desire & HTC Trophy. Same hardware, totally different UI response.
And HW ain't the solution, unless they suddenly make a magical battery that lasts longer. You can't just stuff hardware and hope for the best. That's why proper coding on embedded devices is so important.
---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
True, at this point. But I see more and more apps that were ported first from iOS to Android, now being ported to WP and the number of major apps IS rising, even faster then it was for Android in 2009/2010.
Google can't sleep now, when he's still on the top.
Another point: they have more and more inconsistency issues then ever, just see the Nexus line. New device is on an older 4.0.2 , old dev phone is on 4.0.3, but not the 4G version. Hilarious. They managed to get their own phone line fragmented.
They start many different new services, then they get behind with trying to fit them all together, UI wise or function wise. Then in the middle they change the UI look. Like chasing their own tail.
We could go on and on, but if they want to make drastic changes for anything on the OS, now it's still the time. Specially since now there's an opportunity when they develop the next Android version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, windows phone isn't targeted at the Android market. Windows Phone is clearly after the iPhone market, however it fails big time. Its 2012 and still requires the use of cords. The major apps are pathetic, ever tried WhatsApp? Tango really sucks, angry birds doesn't even have all the levels, I could go on and on. Those are just the major apps, the other apps are even worse.
But yeah, its smooth. The UI gets beyond boring after a couple of weeks. I actually missed my static icons on Android. Hell the iPhone started looking good to me after dealing with my hd7.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
All of you are saying that Windows Phone and iOS have different priorities over Android and this is true. Apple believes in making everything look and function nicely with out actually adding anything new. Android is more like the true computer if anything. I think that in coming years with quad core phones Android will soon be able to dedicate a whole core at 1000mghz to the UI if they wanted to opposed to the current 100ish it has.
LGIQEXPO said:
All of you are saying that Windows Phone and iOS have different priorities over Android and this is true. Apple believes in making everything look and function nicely with out actually adding anything new. Android is more like the true computer if anything. I think that in coming years with quad core phones Android will soon be able to dedicate a whole core at 1000mghz to the UI if they wanted to opposed to the current 100ish it has.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh. A laymans solution without thinking constructively.
You can throw 100 cores in if you want, but then what happens. On current dual core phones, the 2nd core is active only when needed. Battery life would be hammered down if it wasn't. Now imagine the same scenario for a quad. 1 core for UI animation ? Yeah, right for 4h of battery life perhaps.
This is from Cayniarb (http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=2634309), question was if you can enable the 2nd core to be on all the time instead of just when needed :
"People forcing cpu1 (the second core) to be online all the time will destroy your battery life and very possibly cause permanent damage to the chip in your device. The second core comes online under load. It is supposed to work that way. The architecture here is multi-processor - not the same as the multi-core architecture people are more familiar with in desk/laptops. This means that it is 2 pretty much entirely independent CPUs cast on one piece of silicon (as opposed to 1 CPU with multiple processing cores). This architecture allows the second core to be 'hotplugged' offline. It saves on power consumption, reduces heat output, and increases the longterm stability of the chip. Additionally, the Snapdragon S3 is the only aSynchronous Multi-Processor (aSMP) available. The critical difference there is that when cpu1 comes online it operates fully independently of cpu0.
The problem that aSMP and SMP chips have in android is that the core operating system is not designed to distribute processes across multiple cores/processors. Effectively, what you get here is a single core phone clocked at 1.2Ghz except when you really push it, there is an extra 1.2Ghz available on top. It's still only working one thread at a time, so it is not multiprocessing.
In order for anyone to experience the real power and benefit of dual-core phones, the core operating system needs to be completely reworked to include multiprocessing support natively... Oh wait. Isn't that happening like next week or something?""
Not many apps are coded right now to properly use 2 cores and they exist almost for 1 year now. How long would it take to redone this for quads? Again, HW is nothing without coding it right.
Is this not just history repeating itself? Patience, the future will answer our concerns.
As a long time Android user (OG Droid) I cannot believe I am about to ask this. I know it will spur alot of hate my way, but I guess I can take it...
I am thinking of upgrading to the next Iphone (5).
I haven't thought lightly about this. As previously stated, I have used Android since the motorola droid 1 and since then I have rooted every phone and installed countless roms.
The common theme in all the phones and roms I've encountered is intermittent lag. Every phone, every rom, has had lag from time to time. I'm talking about having to wait 3-10 seconds for the dialer or home screen to come up.
I have tried all different homes, scripts, etc to improve it, but the problems remain. The problem is it's intermitent, that's why it's hard to isolate the cause.
Also, the only root privledges I really enjoy are removing apps and wireless tethering.
So a few questions for you guys:
Who here also has an iphone 4, 4s?
Does it have any lag at all?
Is there a way to bypass itunes to transfer music/vids to it?
Anyone convert to iphone and then regret it?
What limitations besides flash are there?
Is there a way to wirelessly tether?
Flame on, I'm ready
Galaxy Nexus and done
A few of my buddies have iPhones, dating back to the iPhone3G. They have all had problems at one point or another. All of them. Lag? Have you ever used an iPhone? Two of my friends have jailbroken iPhone4s that lag more than my OG Droid. They look at my Charge and drool. My friends with stock iPhone4's seem to have better performance.
iPhone3G had some of the most ****ty battery life I've ever seen on a phone. This was back in 2008. Everyone I knew who owned an iPhone3G had multiple chargers (office, home, car). Also, the iPhone3G didn't handle the OS updates as well as the 3GS and above. My friend who used an iPhone3G was basically crippled at times.
I've seen plenty of lag on the iPhone3GS as well. I have the iPod Touch (3rd gen) and have seen lag. My iPod Touch also likes to skip tracks whenever it feels like it.
I can't speak for the performance of the iPads, but I can offer my opinion: they're giant iPod Touches. NOT revolutionary in the least bit. I seriously hate iPads and hate Apple for ruining what "tablet computers" are. Even my supernerdyApplefanboy coworker got upset when the iPad was showcased. He was hoping for an actual tablet (he's an artist), and not just a giant iPod Touch.
EDIT: I'm surprised you haven't complained about your PC lagging.
I hardly ever have lag on my phones, and when it does happen its not extreme and doesn't last long usually just a stutter...
on a related note it bugs me when I watch/read reviews about android phones and all I see/hear is LAG LAG LAG LAG DERPY DERP DERP LAG then the reviewer proceeds to do a demonstration of it and it looks COMPLETELY NORMAL, like they're calling the two milliseconds screen transition lag and afterwards continue to say how horrible it is compared to iOS, which is retarded because they are two completely different os's and everyone knows iOS has its faults as well (one of which, surprise surprise, is LAG)
/end rant
Being that I am not a fanboy in either direction, I will give my input, and experience.
Lag. Not normally seen in a stock iphone, but ever so present of jailbroken.
Bypass itunes? Nope. And if you have never used itunes to sync, then coming from android, you may have a hard time getting used to it.
I have used android and ios. Regret it, no. but I prefer androids openness. If I was forced to only user ios would I be miserable? Not from the reliability standpoint. Personally I get bored easily, so I love flashing different roms with android.
Limitations? Ability to change roms. If you jailbreak then you can load up winterboard for themes, but you are still on the same os.
Tether? Possible, yet easier to track, and apple has been known to break this feature easily from their end at carrier requests.
My additional input. Unless the iphone 5 has at least a 4 in screen, and better battery to compensate, I will pass. The small screen does annoy me
I went from Windows Mobile 6.5 -> iOS -> Android.
Even a jailbroken iPhone still needs to call home (your PC) whenever you want to update it. You mentioned bypassing iTunes for adding music. While I am no expert on iOS, there is no method that I've discovered to do this on my Touch 4G. With the exception of my SD backup last night, I cannot remember the last time I needs a PC in front of me to do anything on my phone.
Lag has already been touched upon, and while I've seen it on occasion with Android, iOS 5.0.1 lags a hell of a lot more on my bone stock, with the exception on jailbreak, iPod.
There are plenty of ways to by pass iTunes, I prefer to CopyTrans Manager since it's free and simple.
http://www.copytrans.net/copytransmanager.php
There are wireless tether apps PdaNet, TetherMe, and MyWi for jailbroken iPhones on cydia. Be aware though that it is much easier for the carriers to detect tethering on IOS than android.
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
kvswim said:
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
Win...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA App
It really comes down to what you want in the long run.
My wife has the Iphone 4 and I have the charge. personally I like the charge better.
Its not in a locked environmet. If your phone lags, and all will it comes down to specs.
My next phone will have 1.5 gb cpu and 1gb ram simple enough for me. Then it will have to fall into a "can I mod it catagory".
kvswim said:
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This made me laugh. Never realized it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
tsitalon1 said:
As a long time Android user (OG Droid) I cannot believe I am about to ask this. I know it will spur alot of hate my way, but I guess I can take it...
I am thinking of upgrading to the next Iphone (5).
I haven't thought lightly about this. As previously stated, I have used Android since the motorola droid 1 and since then I have rooted every phone and installed countless roms.
The common theme in all the phones and roms I've encountered is intermittent lag. Every phone, every rom, has had lag from time to time. I'm talking about having to wait 3-10 seconds for the dialer or home screen to come up.
I have tried all different homes, scripts, etc to improve it, but the problems remain. The problem is it's intermitent, that's why it's hard to isolate the cause.
Also, the only root privledges I really enjoy are removing apps and wireless tethering.
So a few questions for you guys:
Who here also has an iphone 4, 4s?
Does it have any lag at all?
Is there a way to bypass itunes to transfer music/vids to it?
Anyone convert to iphone and then regret it?
What limitations besides flash are there?
Is there a way to wirelessly tether?
Flame on, I'm ready
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The main problem I have with the iPhone (my mom has it) is that its browser lacks text reflow. You can use alternative browsers that can increase font size, but this can backfire on certain websites (such as dslreports) where lines begin to overlap. Windows Phone 7 also lacks text reflow, and this is a serious issue for me.
Obviously there's Readability, or even Safari's own built-in "Reader" function, to strip ads out of web pages and display text in a very readable format, but that doesn't work with forums or comment pages such as xda or reddit (which are my favorite parts of the web). This issue is exacerbated on iOS's relatively small screen.
As for smoothness and lag, there's no doubt iOS is smoother in all facets. It also doesn't experience standby drain issues, which I've struggled with dealing on my Charge. Its browser is silky smooth, and touch input is prioritized over all other actions (like web page rendering), so you'll be able to move around a page that hasn't fully loaded (you'll just see checkerboxes).
I was hoping Google would fix Android's lag issues with ICS. I want them to eliminate the Dalvik VM framework (it would at the very least spare their OS's future from Oracle's lawsuits) and run things in native code. If you've used WP7 you've no doubt been surprised at how oily smooooth it runs even on outdated Cortex A8 single-core CPUs.
Unfortunately, responses from Google's own engineers are incredibly disheartening. Take this one for example: https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/XAZ4CeVP6DC
Dianne argues points about the differences between iOS and Android, and how this leads to performance issues with Android (security and sandboxing leads to slowness). But later on in the thread an iOS jailbreaker by the name of "Jay Freeman" utterly destroys every one of her claims, pointing out iOS goes above and beyond what Android does (in that specific instance).
If one of Google's own Android engineers doesn't even realize their excuses for performance issues is completely invalid, how is Google ever going to improve their OS?
So yeah, if it weren't for LTE and text reflow in the browser, I might have moved on. You also may want to consider those issues before switching.
Also as a disclaimer, I've flashed the "pre-alpha" ICS ROM on the Charge, and while the stock browser loads much, much faster than Gingerbread, it still stutters and lacks smoothness. Opera Mobile is still by far the smoothest, but even that occasionally experiences microstutters. Many people won't notice or care, but as a former high(ish)-level FPS player I notice these details and it drives me crazy.
To the person above me... Jay Freeman aka Saurik is the person who basically invented jailbreaking. He is the iOS god-the JT1134 of the iPhone.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
I thought this debate died a while back. I don't have lag on the Charge, period.
Get a good ROM, Fugu, V-6, change scheduler, freeze stuff.
Or get Apple. If you have to even ask, then you probably should get Apple.
Besides, by the time the iPhone 5 is out, just think where Android phones will be.
Lol, worst place to post this thread Maybe you should try an iForum
On a serious note, I know what you mean, the UI is smooth as silk, apps open quick and the UI is super speedy. Honestly though, I just upgraded from a milestone (international version of OG Droid) to a Galaxy Nexus, and I really can't complain. I haven't played with a 4S but I mean this phone is buttery smooth with no lag whatsoever. The screen is gorgeous and I love having so much more real estate than a measly 3.7' device. I also could never get used to such a boring UI such as the one present on the iPhone. I mean seriously, the same, overrated UI for 7 years? Although I love what Apple does, their UI is lacking some serious innovation and I for one could never live with that UI on my phone.
As per whether iTunes is required or not, I believe if you are jailbroken, you can use a desktop app called iFunbox. Not sure about this one, but I know you can navigate through the root of the device but not sure if it would play with the native music/video player
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
kvswim said:
To the person above me... Jay Freeman aka Saurik is the person who basically invented jailbreaking. He is the iOS god-the JT1134 of the iPhone.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy... *that* was Saurik? No wonder he was so knowledgeable about the ins and outs of iOS. I thoroughly enjoyed reading his posts. He somehow made it possible for even a layman like myself to understand what he was saying.
What frustrated me the most was that Dianne did nothing to follow up. She updated her post and admitted to being in error about iOS, but apparently didn't make the connection that her mistake made her entire argument completely moot.
I've always had high hopes for Android, but it's been frustrating me lately. The XDA community does an amazing job of tweaking, fixing, modding, speeding up, etc. to make Android run far better than even stock versions, but only a rewrite of Android's foundations will give it the power to run as ridiculously fluidly as WP7 does on 2009 hardware, let alone iOS on a single-core 600 MHz iPhone 3GS at 256 MB of RAM (albeit at low resolution).
As for Android being linux-based, Meemo is even more customizable and runs more smoothly, despite having less investment into it. Android deserves better. I want Google to stand up and say "we're breaking backwards compatibility to rewrite this OS". Take the lead, be bold, ignore the bleatings of the carriers and OEMs.
With WP7 and iOS not having full multi-tasking support, at least to the level that Android has it, that helps make them more fluid. If you don't have apps in the background taking up RAM and CPU time, regardless of how much or little of the system resources the app takes up, it is still wasted time. In return though, we don't have to worry about closing out music or the browser just to check a text message. If you want to remove the multi-tasking ability of Android, especially if done to ICS, I'm sure that it would be very smooth as well.
imnuts said:
With WP7 and iOS not having full multi-tasking support, at least to the level that Android has it, that helps make them more fluid. If you don't have apps in the background taking up RAM and CPU time, regardless of how much or little of the system resources the app takes up, it is still wasted time. In return though, we don't have to worry about closing out music or the browser just to check a text message. If you want to remove the multi-tasking ability of Android, especially if done to ICS, I'm sure that it would be very smooth as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think this is a fair argument. iOS multitasking is just done differently and has a scheduler optimized for mobile devices with battery constraints. However it is no doubt more limited, which is why I used Meego as an example. Meego has true multitasking, but is still extremely responsive to input with an extremely smooth UI. Even incomplete webOS is more responsive in the browser (although not smooth). And multitasking isn't the only issue with Android.
Take one of the poster's comments: "While the S2's browser is fantastic, other parts are not - such as an SMS inbox with a thread of 30 or so messages, or scrolling through a long list of contacts (it seems to 'stutter' when the ListView has to render headings while scrolling is occurring, so it's not 'fluid'). Third party apps suffer the same fate (i.e. IMDB: scrolling through 'Latest Trailers' or the 'Coming Soon' list, same app on iPhone - buttery smooth and flawless fluidity which makes the end-user feel good).
...
Or Skype: install Skype, chat with someone, then scroll up the chat. I'm not even going to start on viewing/panning around PDF files ;(."
Another poster with a custom kernel claimed smooth experience on a different app with similar functionality, but that speaks to xda's accomplishments, and not to Android's effectiveness.
Jay Freeman (aka Saurik... I had no idea) sums up the above mentioned issue here:
"http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3332357 <- check out the responses from Xuzz and ryanpetrich.
In particular, iOS in fact has a multi-window architecture: applications can be made up of multiple UIWindows, and you can have UIWindows from different processes on screen at the same time. When you click on applications in SpringBoard, the transitions you see are animations of windows, and it would not at all be difficult to implement (from a rendering perspective) a scheme where different processes registered something similar to Android's activities, where clicking links slid one process's content off-screen while sliding another process's content on, even while sharing a navigation bar.
The status bar actually used to be an example of this, but they changed it at some point (and honestly I do not remember why, but I do not believe it to have been due to a rendering issue); the notification center, however, is a good current example: the window for the notification center is in SpringBoard, but it is rendering over and at the same time as the window for the application you are covering. There is also no issue having these windows alpha composite onto each other: the little popups that happen from clicking the volume buttons are windows in SpringBoard.
The reason for this is that, like with most multi-window environments (including Android), there is a window manager that is handling all of the actual compositing. In this case, it is SpringBoard, the process that manages the home screen, task switcher, notification center, lock screen, and honestly almost anything that has to be "always happening". The way this works is that surfaces (backed by system or video memory) are managed by a driver that allows them to be passed between processes: applications can render directly to their surfaces, while the actual surface hierarchy is maintained by SpringBoard.
Honestly, though: around here is where my knowledge is really fuzzy, and can't be trusted; Ryan Petrich's knowledge can be, so I will quote his comment from Hacker News: """On iOS, all standard rendering is done in a single context by the Core Animation window server which lives in SpringBoard. Only when an app adds an OpenGL ES layer to the view hierarchy does a separate context need to be created. When that happens, the render graph is split into subgraphs that are rendered to surfaces and displayed as overlays (with SpringBoard rendering all the standard layers and the app rendering the OpenGL layer)""".
The result of all this is that your comments regarding iOS's inability to handle multiple applications sharing screen real-estate in an efficient and secure manner are simply false: the fact that Apple does not support the Android notion of seamlessly moving between applications, with a back-button instead of simply an up/home-button, is simply an irritating business decision they make. As mentioned by Xuzz on Hacker News, it would be a simple manner to, for example, modify UIKeyboard to be handled by a separate process from the app that was calling for it: the involved work would not be rendering complexity.
Finally, the reason why you need to be careful with your view hierarchy to get 60fps scrolling is due to the complexity of loading new table cells and rendering them for the first time: once they are rendered they scroll quickly as the entire layer is cached (afaik, and if I'm wrong on this it doesn't actually matter). The problem on Android is that, even in the best possible cases, where you are staring at a trivial table implemented by the Android team itself (such as the Settings/Preferences app), there is noticeable UI latency and slop while moving your finger over the screen. When you read threads like the response to your first article on Hacker News, you can see this is a serious challenge for Android."
Dianne Hackborne's response is to disregard these points by claiming all of this is due to the nature of GPUs on old Android devices: "Unfortunately for us, until recently we just didn't have GPUs that could do multiple contexts, so if our system worked like that we wouldn't have been able to ship. :}"
She uses the Nexus S as an example of a "newer" device that solved these problems: "For example, a Nexus S can definitely does 60fps on well written lists."
Sadly, my Droid Charge still stutters on lists and when opening the app drawer.
Jay refutes her silly claims and cites an article on lag in ICS on the GNex and lambasts her for attempting to spread the false claim that Android's lag is due to sandboxing and security issues. I've even seen Hackborne (or at least someone claiming to be her) posting on sites like ArsTechnica with various long-winded arguments like the one she posted on Google+. It's bizarre how unwilling she is to directly address these complaints.
Sorry for the long post. It's a wonderful thread with plenty of amazing back and forth arguments. I just want Google to recognize the issues and talk about them more in public. Talk about how they're specifically addressing them. I'm excited as the next guy to get ICS, but it's just not enough. I've seen videos comparing browsing in ICS compared to a single-core A8 WP7 phone. Scrolling and zooming... just no comparison. As much as I hate to admit it, the idea of an HTC Titan II with 4.7" screen and LTE makes me jealous. What I wouldn't give to have an Android phone with that kind of user experience.
Ok, thanks guys.
So from what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like a fundamental difference in user experience really. Sure you lose control unless you jailbreak, which causes iOS lag...
Most of what I want to do still seems doable. If I decide to go that route I would wait for the 5, as I have to have a bigger screen.
Next question for those that have experienced it. Is there anything comparable to Google navigation on iOS? I know Google has it on iOS, but it's crippled, I also believe there are paid versions, but is there anything free that's as accurate and reliable as the turn by turn Android Nav app?
How about theming? app drawers? I really don't like a cluttered homescreen with all my apps on it. I assume there is an app drawer app that can clean it up right? Oh, what about widgets?
I also want to thank you guys for the open and honest feedback without the usual dismissal that is usually found on some of these boards.
tsitalon1 said:
How about theming? app drawers? I really don't like a cluttered homescreen with all my apps on it. I assume there is an app drawer app that can clean it up right? Oh, what about widgets?
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Haha, personalization, what's that?