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It is truly amazing what we put up with as consumers of electronic devices. The fact that a certain technology is readily available and has been for years does not necessarily mean that we are allowed to put our hands on it. Instead there is a huge secluded group of executives that meet off the books periodically to decide how long they will string out the public with this specific device or set of hardware spec, and which years in the future they will finally decide to release what they already have in hand and are using themselves as "prototypes".
I have an uncle who works for an integrator who makes all the internals that go inside these cell phones, and laptops, and other electronic devices, and he has showed me again and again the kind of technology that is available, and could be in the hands of the public for pennies on the dollar, but from a sales/profit standpoint it would not make sense to release this stuff. We are talking about phones that exist now, but we will not see until 5 years from now, that can already be as powerful as your 3.0ghz core2duo desktop computer. The same goes with laptops. Just as an example, in 2001, I had a Dell Latitude c840 Laptop, with 2GB RAM and a 2.4ghz processor. Come on, that was 7 years ago! Yet that is still the norm for average/decent computer these days that sells for $1,000.
The intentional slowing down of technology release to the public, and the huge gap between what is easily possible and what is readily available is just getting bigger and bigger. Think about it...allowing a cell phone board to handle 512mb instead of 256mb...come on, that is an overnight programming/hardware fix job...not 2-3 years. We have been trained by these corporations to expect it to take a year or two to come up with new hardware, when in fact it takes weeks, and max 2-3 months to invent this stuff. Companies like Intel and AMD have been providing other companies like SiliconImages with 8-16 core computers for the past 8 years...why are we, the general public, so low on the totem pole to these executives? We have it well within our power to shut down the system in less than a week by refusing to buy this cheap, dumbed down hardware.
Frankly I am sick of it, yet there is nothing I can do as a consumer to change it. We are scum and nothing in the eyes of the giant electronics corps, and right now we are eating up their tables scraps like it is the best invention we have ever seen. Come on - The TouchPro 2 from HTC could have been in my hand 5 years ago, yet we still right now are "waiting" for it, and will pay $500, $600, or $700 for one, a device that costs them $50-$100 to manufacture. They hold on to hardware as long as they possibly can to make as much money as they can. Yes, that is a good business strategy, but in the meantime we are left with crap hardware that just gets repackaged into a new plastic shell and given a different name, and we are supposed to drool over it...? Please. This just blows me away, the fact that we put up with this treatment is beyond me; and, it has gone on for so long that it is par for the course now, nobody can change it. We will continue to get low quality electronics when 10x more advanced devices are sitting on CEO's desks just gathering dust.
Well said. That is why I ain't investing on any phone unless it has about 1GHz of processor power.
Of course it's about cost issues. There are multiteraflops computers in this world, but why can't we get our hands on them? Because they cost too much, duh.
Think about it. Do you want to pay $500,000 for a phone? Just because it contains chips that will economically viable in about five years?
Soaa- said:
Of course it's about cost issues. There are multiteraflops computers in this world, but why can't we get our hands on them? Because they cost too much, duh.
Think about it. Do you want to pay $500,000 for a phone? Just because it contains chips that will economically viable in about five years?
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But that is exactly my point, it really does not cost that much. You have been conditioned to think that it costs hundreds of tousands of dollars for this stuff.
This was exactly my point. Consumers have been trained to believe that this stuff really costs SO much money when in fact it does not. So we just put it out of our mind as unaffordable, and settle for a much more mediocre device.
For example, a 60" Plasma Flast Screen TV made by Pioneer (the best HDTV maker on the market) costs then about $200-$300 to make...they charge over $1,500 to $2,000 now. Do you also remember when that same 60" Plasma costs over $10,000 to make back in 2000 or 2001? Well they were not using any different or better parts back then, in fact probably worse parts than the new ones, however the price came from the "idea" of what HDTV was, and not from the actual cost/prices.
Huge advancements in technology are being withheld from us under the guise that it costs a lot of money, when in fact it costs Intel no more money to manufacture and 80core chip than it does for then to manufacture a single core chip. Perhaps a few dollars more, but we're talking about 5% or 10% of the price they charge as their costs here. Why do you think electronic companies never go out of business? I mean the names like LG, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonioc, Sony, Motorola, etc....these have been around forever, and always will be because they are pulling the wool over our eyes.
I get sick evertime I read a press release from one of the big electronic giants about a "new" technology being introduced into the market, and although the price is sky high, some peiople will buy it. All I can sit there and think about it "Wow, how many decades did they wait to show this to us, only to tell us it was new and charge us out the butt for something they have had in their possesion for years?"
GRR! I will stop venting now.
"1GHz of processor power."
Ghz is pointless it's easy to make a 1Ghz cpu but to get to perform
better then what you got is the task
clock is only the pace how much is don at each tick is what matters
like a 500Mhz arm based cpu don't performe as a 500Mhz x86 based cpu
and a p4 2.4Ghz dont performe as a core duo 2.4Ghz
Could intel make a 16 core chip right now? Yes! they could! it would use over 400 watts, have to be clocked pretty low, and cost 2,000 because of very low yields (what % have all cores functional) and low demand. The desktop PC CPU market is not holding out on us. Why are the chips still clocked around 3ghz or lower? because the new chips have a focus on efficiency. They make the chips do more work at lower mhz to reduce power usage and allow them to keep advancing. An E6600 for example is supposed to be equivilent to a P4 at 6.6ghz, though they have gotten a bit bad with those ratings and they don't really offer a good comparison any more. I will put it this way though, if you benchmark a 2.4ghz P4 against a 2.4ghz core 2 based chip, the P4 chip will get curb stomped.
LCD panels for HDTVs etc.. weren't being held back, they were just being gouged to high heaven. Hence all of the recent price fixing suits coming up.
Phones, we really are being held back. I really don't know why. Probably atleast partly to do with batteries not being good enough, but even with our current batteries we should have much better phones. I live in the US, we get shafted on phones above and beyond the normal shafting. A lot of the good phones dont support our carriers and the ones that do often dont support our 3G bands.
its the same situation with cars! churning out the same repackaged stuff and charging the earth for it..
i wonder if this could run on Gtablet.. Lol. D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I&feature=player_embedded
amazing UI..
but i'm still loyal to android.. D its an OS WAR on 2012 ,
iOS 5, Google Icecream Android, Windows 8..
That looks like a hell of a lot of processing power for a mobile device.
well tegra 3 is on the way...
boltgd said:
well tegra 3 is on the way...
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But it's not compatible with windows.
Eh. Its a Mickeysoft product. Overpromise, Overhype, and Underwhelm. There are promised features from Vista that have yet to be developed and introduced. So I am not gonna hold my breath.
yeah they have a lot of work to do.. since the release is way too far ahead, 2012.. i guess ICEcream won't give up easily with this kind of UI..
Impress us GOOGLE.. your'e still my bet.. LOL
juntunen said:
Eh. Its a Mickeysoft product. Overpromise, Overhype, and Underwhelm. There are promised features from Vista that have yet to be developed and introduced. So I am not gonna hold my breath.
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What features, exactly, are you referencing? I only ask because I have been Alpha and Beta testing MS operating systems for almost 20 years.
And why on earth would they work to introduce features on an OS that was replaced by a better one only about a year after release (thank god)?
Kind of like saying "when is Android 1.6 going to support HTML5?" Not going to happen because Android 2 added that support.
Maybe you should hold your breath.
That actually looks pretty amazing, Google has some work to do, they are the modern day version of the old Microsoft with the bugs and such, seems the new Microsoft has figured out that making it work is more important, so now google ditch the Linux kernel and find your own way. I am an Android fan and a GTab owner, but I have to say I hate tinkering with this thing and would rather it wake up and do what I want it to do, and do it consistently. I don't even mess with my GTab anymore, I hate to say it but I have reverted back to my iPad, simply it works consistently. Just my 2 cents.
goodintentions said:
But it's not compatible with windows.
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Win 8 will be compatible with ARM processors.*
*Not official, but one of the demos of Win8 a few weeks ago was running on an ARM. Before you ask, the Tegra2 (and Tegra3) is an ARM processor.
scrantsj said:
Win 8 will be compatible with ARM processors.*
*Not official, but one of the demos of Win8 a few weeks ago was running on an ARM. Before you ask, the Tegra2 (and Tegra3) is an ARM processor.
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That could change everything then.
Android better get way better, way faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MnEndww2YQ&feature=player_embedded#t=0s
I am going to try to hold on to my G-Tablet until the Tegra 3 tablets are out. Should be able to put Win8 on it, maybe even dual boot Android.
I also saw a video somewhere of a Xoom running build 7955, and it ran really well. 1 ghz processor with 1 gb ram should be the system requirements for ARM and Tegra 2 chips. IOS is dead.
Honestly that ui looks like a windows phone to cartoony for me and childish. They really need to do something more innovative take ie9 for example just a down right copy of chrome ms is just worried about market share. Not to mention everything here lately from them has nothing but bloated kernels and fail coding.
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I am going to try to hold on to my G-Tablet until the Tegra 3 tablets are out. Should be able to put Win8 on it, maybe even dual boot Android.
I also saw a video somewhere of a Xoom running build 7955, and it ran really well. 1 ghz processor with 1 gb ram should be the system requirements for ARM and Tegra 2 chips. IOS is dead.
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speaking of dead... I saw a picture of Steve Jobs.. I didn't know he was gay.. I saw a pic of his 'man' having to hold him up as they took a picture of him... he looks like death.. so thin, looks so old... poor guy... well I guess Apple wasn't good to him after all...
IOS/SJ RIP together?
that could be possible that win 8 will run anywhere... the OS core is going to be cloud base, and while most devices run a java, or specialized VB, a simple modification to be able to get market share, why not? MS wants you... With the way WP7Mobile is, and how bad of a phone it is, MS has a bigger picture in mind... and they are a lion in waiting.... and with all ur data on a server that you may have to pay 4.95 (beginning charges on MS) Money is about to come back rolling in... and since cloud based... illegal apps are going to be difficult to run... just as they can turn off your development key in MS, they will be able to turn off your system from processing as they hold all the cards... so be ready... Apple is doing same for 2012. lets hope Android won't follow, although MS has a big stake in it... we shall see.
cmiuc said:
Quote
speaking of dead... I saw a picture of Steve Jobs.. I didn't know he was gay.. I saw a pic of his 'man' having to hold him up as they took a picture of him... he looks like death.. so thin, looks so old... poor guy... well I guess Apple wasn't good to him after all...
IOS/SJ RIP together?
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I give him two months - not a slant on the man, but when you step down as the CEO of the most profitable company in the world, there's a reason behind it. And given how he looked in June, I suspect that the cancer is back and he's terminal. I feel very bad for him, and for his family.
juntunen said:
Eh. Its a Mickeysoft product. Overpromise, Overhype, and Underwhelm. There are promised features from Vista that have yet to be developed and introduced. So I am not gonna hold my breath.
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O O and U -- sounds like Android, to me.
I am looking forward to Windows 8, as I think both Google and Apple need a shot in the arm. My only concern is that MS has never done well in the mobile space. But they have surprised me with Windows 7 so maybe they can work their magic again.
Windows 8 Tablet Reach Developers Soon
Windows 8 tablet builds are rumored to be coming to developers as soon as this fall, so within the next 2-3 months, maybe even sooner. This means that a Windows 8 build is close to finish and Microsoft can expect to make a Windows 8 shipment sometime next summer in 2012. There is also a Microsoft Build event on September 13-16. The Anaheim California conference is focused on Windows hardware and software developers. Supposedly, it is expected to be Microsoft’s Windows 8 coming out party to get partners and OEM’s started on developing devices and apps for Windows 8.
Having said that, the issue for the tablet is not just performance but design. Apple junkies love the design, the apps, and the uniqueness of the product. It stands apart. While Microsoft may be able to make a competent and reliable product, can they make one that consumers will fall in love with?
The question comes up is what is the Quad Core processor that is supposed to run on tablets? That isn’t clear and running the tablet with a laptop processor wouldn’t be a good move since the battery life would be limited. Note, however, earlier this year three developers NVIDIA, Qualcomm, and Texas Instruments each announced quad-core mobile chips and announced that they’d arrive before the end of 2011. Nvidia is supposed to make an announcement soon about the state of a quad-core table. Nvidia, by the way, is an ARM chipmaker, which is the preferred Windows 8 OS chip of choice, (although x86 based chips will still be used).
Windows vs Android
cotangent05 said:
i wonder if this could run on Gtablet.. Lol. D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I&feature=player_embedded
amazing UI..
but i'm still loyal to android.. D its an OS WAR on 2012 ,
iOS 5, Google Icecream Android, Windows 8..
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Click to collapse
I love my gTablet (and other tablets) and Android is really slick, but Android is to Windows like a toasteroven to a double oven with range and griddle. Android is made for a few functions and to be really small and compact. Again I love my tablet but it doesn't really do what my netbook does with ease. On the other hand, my netbook isn't as convenient or as much fun as my tablet.
That said, if you put my netbook with a slick, capacitive touch screen and it could do all the things my netbook can do - then wow! That would be very nice.
---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------
Gilpinreid said:
Windows 8 tablet builds are rumored to be coming to developers as soon as this fall, so within the next 2-3 months, maybe even sooner. This means that a Windows 8 build is close to finish and Microsoft can expect to make a Windows 8 shipment sometime next summer in 2012. There is also a Microsoft Build event on September 13-16. The Anaheim California conference is focused on Windows hardware and software developers. Supposedly, it is expected to be Microsoft’s Windows 8 coming out party to get partners and OEM’s started on developing devices and apps for Windows 8.
Having said that, the issue for the tablet is not just performance but design. Apple junkies love the design, the apps, and the uniqueness of the product. It stands apart. While Microsoft may be able to make a competent and reliable product, can they make one that consumers will fall in love with?
The question comes up is what is the Quad Core processor that is supposed to run on tablets? That isn’t clear and running the tablet with a laptop processor wouldn’t be a good move since the battery life would be limited. Note, however, earlier this year three developers NVIDIA, Qualcomm, and Texas Instruments each announced quad-core mobile chips and announced that they’d arrive before the end of 2011. Nvidia is supposed to make an announcement soon about the state of a quad-core table. Nvidia, by the way, is an ARM chipmaker, which is the preferred Windows 8 OS chip of choice, (although x86 based chips will still be used).
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As far as power, I have to say my 160 GB netbook runs for over 6 hours on wifi and with pretty heavy use on a charge. The processor will/can be improved, I;m sure, but the biggest (and maybe only) issue is getting windows capabilities with a capacitive touch screen. The Atom at 1.6 is about the same capability as our Tegra2 at 1 - although I'm not sure about the video side of things.
If I were designing the new system I'd make it about the same size as the current netbooks with a keyboard that folds all the way behind kind of like the Pocket Edge, whenever you only wanted to use touch but could fold around like a netbook when you wanted to rest it on a counter or use the keyboard/trackstick.
Windows and mobile
I am looking forward to Windows 8, as I think both Google and Apple need a shot in the arm. My only concern is that MS has never done well in the mobile space. But they have surprised me with Windows 7 so maybe they can work their magic again.[/QUOTE]
I sure wouldn't want to counter anything you said as you're the king of the tablets as far as I can tell, but I think you're comment about MS (which is an opinion shared by many) is heavily influenced by very recent history I think. Up until the full blown development of the capacitive touch screen in the Apple phone Microsoft's Mobile OS was the preferred choice. I had an Axim 5 which did most everything we're talking about with tablets but with a lot less elegance and functionality. Microsoft was the first major manufacturer to advance touch screens in portable devices. I had a Fuji "tablet" computer years ago and it was pretty slick BUT it used a resistive touch screen which made touch features less than elegant.
What microsoft (and others) missed was the capacitive touch screen and how it changed the world. Apple had an early in to this technology since they first adopted it for their iPod controller wheel and that led to their incorporating it into the main display. Capacitive touch screens had been around a long time but they couldn't be controlled precisely until recently (can't remember the company who did it first but it was Apple's key supplier to iPod wheels). So in the blink of an eye the slickest Blackberry or windows smart phone looked crippled compared to the slick interface the multi-touch capacitive touch screen apple produced. Since then resistive screens have actually gotten pretty good, but the technology of choice is multi-touch capacitive.
I don't know if MS will do the Windows 8 with a trimmed down tablet version or not, or even if they do it, will they do it well. But, I do know they have many more engineers than Apple and a base kernel in Windows which is fabulous to build on. Heck if they just gave me that interface on my current netbook I would be thrilled.
Why Microsoft was so late to the mp3 player and why they let Mobile Windows falter is a mystery. I did have one MS engineer (proj mgr on Office at the time) told me they took their eye off the ball on mobile as they kind of looked to the entertainment (xBox) div to push that stuff and they just never got beyond game systems.
Microsoft also missed on the spreadsheet for many years and had a couple attempts which didn't cut it (multiplan was nifty but too hard to use) but when they came out with Excel they conquered. Same with Word. Same with console game boxes, and even to some extent with keyboards and mice and web cams.
You'd think I "liked" MS. I don't really. I much prefer Linux and the whole GPL scheme of things, but I give the devil her due. I use microsoft products every day and I have to say they do a terrific job. No other tech company I know of could match them on taking care of their past customers. That legacy in many ways has been a blessing and a curse. That said, I wouldn't count them out by any means and they will do very well in mobile/tablets when they embrace the touch interface. I'm not sure about phones. I've never really seen the vision of a phone-size computing device. To me a phone size is all about sync and media (photo, music, and light video media), and of course, phone. Tablet is your GPS, planner and organizer, newspaper and email, heavier duty mobile media consumption and phone (skype). Laptop is the primary working device to actually earn an income from, and the desktop is simply a legacy for all that stuff you still want to interface with and stream on your local network.
I think MS's mobile image was damaged quite a bit by them virtually abandoning Windows mobile, the low takeup of the Zune and the piling on of the apple community. That caused MS to go after a phone which was a disaster. In a nutshell there wasn't a failure of note until the iPhone in the middle of 2007 which has led (largely) to a remake of the MS image in this arena. They certainly deserve their lumps, but like you pointed out Win 7 was great and if they do get that interface they are showing on Win 8, watch they roar back in the mobile space.
I do wonder about another competing "app" development framework. It would have been nice to see that part of the interface somehow stick with the Android model. I'm sure MS will produce a free dev kit of some kind but that doesn't replace all the work for good developers to get up to speed.
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Well, screensize is a matter of personal preference. Millions of iphoners can attest to that.
I, personally, won't pass judgement on the Titan's screen until I see it in person.
Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend either waiting for Nokia devices or take a look at Samsung Focus S when it hits.
Although, I do agree that OEMS have been less than forthcoming with their cutting edge devices thus far. The Venue Pro could have been such an animal had it not had a myriad of issues early on.
Okbye.
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
I think the screen sizes between 3.5 and 4.0 are awesome :-D just the way I want the screens to be;-) still hoped for some dual core, but wp is designed especially for one type of processor, so It's probably therefore it is still singlecore
sent with love from me to you
domineus said:
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
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The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
andrewkeith5 said:
Cut for size
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I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Xodium said:
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
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Thanks! You can probably tell that little rant has been brewing up for quite some time reading some of the posts on here!
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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I sort of agree, but only a little. For WP7 to be successful, they need to push out some hardware that blows people away. Not necessarily in specs, but in design. The new Focus S or whatever it will be called is pretty impressive, but they need to stop developing behind the curve and start innovating on some hardware. Maybe that's MS's plan with Nokia and the newly signed HTC and Samsung contracts. I know that WP7 will outperform a dual-core Android with nothing more than a few generation past snapdragon, but why not throw in a dual-core anyway? My Focus is buttery smooth 99% of the time, but a dual-core and some extra RAM will speed up app loading immensely.
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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hey buddy, please correct your words...we didn't say that WP7 running on single core is slow,please get us right...the reason why we want dual-core is more future proof...
future proof,read it again...microsoft has disappointed me twice since I just love WP7 like you,1st is the HTC HD2 and it can't run a real or proper WP7 due to microsoft don't want to support it.Then,i went for Mozart just for wp7,and now Microsoft says that only one major update per year, therefore, I don't think mozart is up for the next update no new feature,secondary camera, gyroscope for better augmented reality, kinect integration&etc....
So, get us right,before you write man...everyone knows that WP7 is fast on single core,but no future proof...not everyone is rich a$$ and able to buy new mobile phone every year. We want something can last for at least 2 years.
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Yes, WP7 has to catch up. Software isn't the only way they need to catch up. They need to catch up with device specs as well.
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release. The state of the OS had everything to do with that. It's one thing to be told something. It's another thing for people to see what it really performed like when they went in the store (and by performed, I'm not talking about raw speed).
Even now that Mango is out. So little apps are taking advantage of its new features that they need to really push for developers to get on the ball to updating their apps and supporting them. To a consumer trying devices out in a carrier store (only choice for a lot of them, since most of their friends don't have WP7 devices), a lot of Mango's changes seem purely cosmetic because of that. Microsoft haven't even updated most of their own apps on the marketplace for Mango...
N8ter said:
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
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Very true. My sentiments exactly.
Part of it is good: They've added a lot of integrated functionality that reduces the need to install 3rd party apps. Shazam is useless on WP7 for me, for example (just one example).
Part of it is Bad: There are a lot of good apps on other platforms that seem like they don't care, and apps that were released early on, like Twitter/Birdsong that seem to have fallen out of support. Maybe the dev of Birdsong made enough cash and don't feel the need to update the app anymore?
Board Express Pro hasn't updated their app in forever as well, and that's a $3 app.
IMO, if you don't plan on supporting your app in the marketplace, it shouldn't cost anything. I have tended to ignore paid apps (don't even consider them, and don't even look at them) now unless they're a reputable app from a reputable developer. I'll buy BeejiveIM if it comes to WP7, I'll buy TapaTalk if it comes to WP7. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy Birdsong or Board Express Pro.
My days paying for apps are numbered. It's the developers' fault, too.
I think a lot of Microsoft's initial goal was Conversion of non-smartphone users. I don't have anything to prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Android's marketshare comes from mid/low range devices.
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mlococo said:
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
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oh yes and the incredible spec'd devices that were on windows mobile were blockbusters in the market
Microsoft again will lose money if this is all about a specs war, and specs weren't the reason why android was (and is) successful. It's a part, but not the complete package.
Android is diverse enough to reach several different price points to be pawned and given away for pennies. In America, that's important. The only one that feels the need to compare the specs is a bunch of idiots like you and me to see who has the bigger e credit
And I bet anyone on xda devs has done that once
But guess what? We're a growing population, but we are still a blip in comparison to the mass consumer. Go on, ask anyone if spec's matter. To many the answer is possibly, but when a person is selling a phone, they don't say
Hi this phone has a 1.5 gig dual core qhd screen.
They dumb it down to make it sound nice. If you speak techie 24x7 selling a phone, not many sales occur. Again, its about the casual customer.
That said, looking at the price points for android devices that are priced and have similar hardware to windows phone, windows phone does provide a far greater out of box experience. That matters, and it is a large reason why many ditched windows mobile and palm in favor for the iphone flavor in 2007.
Windows Phone has to be popular, and that is a key deterrent in both apple and android's success. This year is the year of getting Windows on equal footing with Android and apple in competitive pricing. Next year is popularity, and ironically, a lot of users will be looking to renew their contracts in America...that matters too
In other words
wait or use a different phone if you're after specs...It's what I used to tell my customers all the time
munkeyphyst said:
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
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I don't know about N8ter, but I complained before the official release, when Microsoft was pushing Mango updates into the marketplace, and their policy was that any app updated to Mango caused the NoDo version to be locked (no more updates allowed). We didn't know how long it would be until the official release, and we didn't know how many NoDo apps would be dead-ended in the interim.
But now Mango is officially out, and Microsoft has admitted that their policy was a bad idea and reversed it. So now everyone wins. People with Mango can get Mango apps, and people with NoDo can continue to receive updates (at least until their numbers are so few that it no longer makes sense).
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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I couldn't agree more, I think 16GB is plenty for almost all needs
MartyLK said:
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
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because of the fact that all the iNaives out there don't know better. people need to stop holding Microsoft to a higher standard than google and apple. the iOS5 betas so far have been unstable on the iPhone4 when compared to mango, also apple may not even release the iPhone 5 but more of a rehash of the iPhone 4,I've seen ur trolling on pocketnow over the mango update and u are just plain wrong, ur just mad because mango doesn't include ur precious Google- integration.
N8ter said:
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release.
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and this matters how? at&t,tmobile and vz all have data caps, what good is 42mbps when u can't even use them without being slowed or overcharged?
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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Who are you to decide what screen size is good for me?
"IS NOT NECESSARY" - who gave you the right to decide what is necessary? Don't be a smartass
So I've been playing around with my Transformer Prime and looking for the best games for it when I realized the PS Vita is coming out soon, I think today. When I first heard about it I was so excited about it and was going to buy it on the spot, but now that I have a quad-core tablet, I see less of a reason to own a dedicated video game handheld. Yes The PSV has better graphics and better games right now, but quad-core tablets just arrived. I see a lot of potential in this next generation of tablets. Is it logical to buy a PSV or a 3DS anymore?
To be honest I always thought it was a waste of money from the get go and thats before all these wicked ass tablets started to come out. I know it appealed to some peeps but I never got into it...I figure if I'm gaming it has to be on at least a 42" inch screen. From the little info I heard about the vita, it seems more of a novelty that anything else. I'd just stick to gaming on a tablet if anything. Just my two cents though lol
The big question I keep asking myself is, why should I buy a device dedicated to one thing? In a world when more devices are capable of performing a wider array of uses, it seems strange to have a device that is meant for a single purpose. I do a lot of college work so having a word processor is key, if a device doesn't have it than I'm less likely to buy it. I just want to find high quality games for my Prime, but unfortunately those are not out yet.
As of current development or better preferred term, Evolution, the current trend in the Android Phone genre is increasing the processor cores, size and resolution of the display etc. etc. But the real question is where they will stop.
First, there were the Single core phones like Samsung Galaxy S, iPhone 4
Now There are Dual Core like Samsung Galaxy S ||, LG 2X, HTC Sensation,
Now, it seems that even dual cores are not enough, that's why companies are launching Quad-Core phones like HTC's One X, LG 4X HD etc.
Now, the first question is,'' Do We Really Need Quad-Core Phones''
Nvidia started this buzz in the middle of the previous year with their Tegra 3, soon we heard Samsung joining this group with their announcement of their Exynos 5450.Having more cores means a faster phone, which everybody wants, is not a bad thing. Personally, i don't think that Quad-Core is the answer for mobiles, right now.
Having a latest hardware is of no use until the Software or Opreating System (OS) can utilize it properly, but following the latest trend, the hardware department seems to be developing at a much faster rate than the software's. We have seen this similar scenario in other aspects of technology too, for e.g. There was a time when PC games were really demanding and investing in a dual GPU sounds smart, but today you can easily get away with a two year old graphics card without having to compromise too much. There's a lot of buzz that ICS is gonna be agame changer, but you can see, that it is not very different from Honeycomb, just better optimized. ICS is better optimised, for sure, but whether it will be able to utilize more than two cores properly, is yet to be seen. Even though Honeycomb was “fully” hardware accelerated, Tegra 2 ( yeah, i'm talking to you, XOOM ) just couldn’t translate all that power it had in to the real world, which translated into sluggish performance.
While Tegra 3 fixes some of these issues, putting it in a phone just does not make sense. To start off with, it’s still using the 40nm fabrication, which doesn’t exactly sip power. You’ll need a really chunky battery for this, which could explain why all Tegra 3 phones have large screens, so the phones have to be made bigger to accommodate the larger battery, while keeping it slim.
But don't forget main part, Battery Life. More processing power automatically translates into more power hungry devices, which impacts battery life quite badly. Tegra 3 uses a 5th Companion core to save power, Even if the new quad-core SoCs have the ability to put their cores in idle mode, it’s still consuming a small amount of power all the time, even if you aren’t using them. Android users struggle with battery life, as it is to get a full day’s worth of heavy usage on single-core phones, so don’t get me started on quad-cores.
Another issue we shouldn’t ignore is apps. About 90 percent of the apps, you’ll ever use on a smartphone work absolutely fine on a 1GHz single-core CPU. It’s just a handful of games (mostly from Nvidia) or specialized apps that actually take advantage of two cores. Realistically, you will very seldom be using these apps when you’re travelling, since these drain the battery like crazy, so your only option is to not use it, which defeats the whole purpose of having a multi-core phone.
P.S. It is my first post, suggestions are always welcome.....
They will stop - when the consumer stops foaming at the mouth to buy the newest, most cores/biggest screen piece of technology to brag to their iPhone owning friends about.
I agree with everything you're saying, however it's all about marketing.
Why would anyone buy a new phone if it comes out with the same specs as the phone they currently own? They won't. They'll hang on to their current phone until they break it, brick it, or lose it.
But if you can show them a new phone with better hardware and specs, they're going to feel like theirs is outdated or inferior.
And since the buying frenzy is driven by the unending need to have something better than everyone else, they will continue to facilitate the satisfaction of that need so that they, in turn, can line their pockets with our hard earned money.
Personally, the only reason I'm going to buy the next phone (Galaxy S3 perhaps?) is so that I can hand my SGS2 down to my wife, who currently has my original MT4G (which btw is still an awesome phone that runs everything like a champ). The only justifiable reason she would need the SGS2 IMO is because the hardware buttons on the MT4G will eventually wear out.
Once she has my SGS2, and I have my new phone, I doubt I will be interested in buying another phone for quite some time unless they introduce some completely new technology that I feel is worth the money (Like project glass, which really isn't a phone per se)
Just my two cents.
I agree completely. It's not about whats realistic or necessary. It's about making money. As long as they're making money, they keep churning out what's making them money. And people will continue to buy the bigger and the better specs because they're looked at with envy by those with last year's model.
I wonder the same when i see new cellphones every day on the news... do they sell all this stuff?
Very, very, very, very, very true!!!
I am also from the crowd who wants always the new phones. But whats the point.
They are keep convincing us like the car manifactures more HP better the car and less the fuel. Quadcore is like you have car with 700 HP but no road to drive?!?!
Optimization is the keyword.......
It would be nice if our hardware held value and prowess for more than 6 months. Although the technology advances are nice. The good thing about it, is that we can sell our devices to fund the replacement. It's a trade off I suppose.
Sent from my Galaxy Note (SGH-i717) using XDA Premium.
I don't know. I don't know ,whether their is a need for tablets, either. It seems like that the big companys found something that everyone wants to have, so they are just want to make money i guess.