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Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)

Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?

dont let the door hit you on your way out.

my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?

Prodigal Son
We'll see you back here in a couple of months once you're bored out your face with the iphone...While your enjoying the music,pictures and the touch screen on you iphone , we'll be developing real useful things for our mobile devices....C'mon You know this already......

navymarvin said:
i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! What a long sentence!

navymarvin said:
my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea i agree, winmo devices are def. more business oriented while the iphone is just for anyone that can use a phone...and plus it's apple!

you yourself call it the "darkside", so i dont think that be a good move...winmo is the "force"

I think its funny you just joined, and your first post is this...
I'm right there with you though, kaiser (tilt) is gone as soon as the 3g iphone is out.
I love everything winmo can do, but iphone does it out of the box. Atleast what I want it for, except mms(wtf?).
There will be tons of apps out for it soon enough, and im sure plenty of them will do the same type of things winmo can do.
caned said:
Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I-Phone= Fun device for people who want to be told what to do (and yes it does kick Windows Mobile device in functionality from here to India).
Win Mo Phones= Not being told what to do
I my friend am not a replicant.

Is this person trying to advertise to us or what? First post ever is this?? Have fun with your still limited iPhone. Forget about internal memory, my 160MB is more than enough for all my apps with over 50 left, I'll use an 8GB SDHC for all my music and movies, and if I want more memory, I'll use another! But, can anyone honestly tell me why this phone might be better? This new model pretty much hits the bottom of the list on what our devices have been doing.

Moving On...U were never Here! Good Luck if U ever have to replace the battery!

It’s funny how some people look on the iphone as the evil enemy without even giving it a chance. You see the same in many other formats, Intel vs amd, ati vs NVIDIA or even the Xbox 360 vs ps3. Some people pick a side and follow it almost like a religion even when the product is totally out done by the opposition. Intel vs amd is a good example. Why would anyone buy an amd processor at the moment is beyond me lol but they still do! amd kicked arse a few years back I must admit.
I’m still very tempted to try the touch pro as it looks a very nice phone that can be expanded to 8gig with micros sd but I guess lots of damage was done with all the problems I had with my Kaiser. Let’s hope roms of the htc diamond improve and we get a nice speedy interface similar to the iphone.
I didn’t mean to make this post sound like a I hate windows mobile I think Microsoft’s only just realised how important this market is so I have high hopes for windows mobile 7 and new htc devices in late 2008 early 2009 and the new NVIDIA apx2500 chip looks amazing! Check this out!
The CPU integrates an Ultra Low Power GeForce GPU that supports both OpenGL ES 2.0 and Direct3D Mobile, to provide sophisticated 3D interfaces. The design, based on the ARM11 750MHz processor, will be built on a 65nm manufacturing process and sport 256KB of level 2 cache.
According to the company, the APX 2500 device can play 10 hours of video or 100 hours of audio from a single charge of an iPhone-size battery.
Perhaps controversially, the APX 2500 CPU will only support Windows Mobile. Humber confirmed that this was a marketing, rather than technical choice. "We feel that Windows Mobile is placed for real growth right now
If only we had windows mobiles devices with this chip now as it really would kick the iphones ass!

I was once torn as you but now with the touch pro on the way, we will have everything we ever needed! The touch flo will be perfected, the ram, the mhz, the keyboard... Finally an interface (touchflo 3d) that is smooth! (we hope better than the diamond) And I'm sorry to say as many of you are GSM lovers including myself, if the touch pro hits the Sprint CDMA network with REV-A, That baby is gonna blaze with apps like youtube, and video streaming like sling box, etc, etc. better camera with flash, same size as tilt (almost) which was a great size for what it was packing! I truly feel that the touch pro will open the doors wide open for WM in 2008. Carriers like at&t and sprint would be fools not to pick this device up. I am sure it will be a hit any all the major carriers will have it. You will see!

iPhone is an iPhone and Windows mobile phone is a windows mobile phone. Stop comparing between WM devices and iPhones. WM devices are great but sometimes it tends to hang every now and then. iPhone seems to be too sweet but then it doesn't over the versatility of a phone (unless you're more into multimedia oriented ). flame me if you wish , its just like comparing apples and oranges together.

I am in the same situation as Caned's. I, too have been a windows mobile believer for as lomg as I can remember. I started with Casio cassiopeia, then a HP Ipaq, then a Blue Angel, then a Wizard, then a Hermes and now with a Kaiser for 10 months or so. I must admit the OS has barely been improved over the past err... 10 years (!), I agree with Caned it has been neglected by MS and I am now fed up of it. IE is appalling, and although there are alternatives to IE, they tend to run in a sluggish way (Opera Mobile) or have serious limitations (OperaMini, for example).
To Apple's credit, the iPhone has changed the way people view and use their phone, and although its market share is very low (Apple is not even among the top 5 mobile manufacturers in the US where its popularity is atits highest), it led mobile phone manufacturers to reconsider what a mobile phone stands for.
For the first time in 10 years I am now thinking of leaving WinMobile and switching to an alternative with a much more user-friendly, attractive OS. The iPhone 3G fits the bill. I never thought much of the iPod when it was released, but I won a nano recently and I must admit I am impressed.
The only thing that stops me from queing on 11/07 outside a O2 store here in the UK is the inability to use the iPhone as a 3G modem with my laptop. I can live with all other limitations of the phone (cant send MMS, camera of only 2MP, text forwarding) and the various ways in which the iPhone delivers a superior user experience relative to HTC phones. WM6.1 was supposed to improve WM6 which was (supposedly) better than WM5 which itself was (supposedly) better than WM2003SE and WM2003. Comparing WM2003 with WM6.1, I can hardly see the difference..!
Sorry guys, but talking to some who defected to the iPhone from winmobile do not regret the switch. Lets see what comes next, but it is time for MS to put its money where its mouth is and deliver a product that, finally matches the user experience delivered by competitors.

On the "lighter side" of things, I remember going to the "dark side" of winmo from my palm lifedrive, because I only wanted one device. So, I guess "ds" is a matter of perspective. Symbian, or android, anyone? jk, I like wm6.1 for now

i've been using wm for like 8 years now. the only time i moved to "the dark side" was when i tried out the nokia n95. but as per my signature below, i saw the light and moved back to wm =)

Uh, you will be missed..
This seems like a reoccurring post here. My original response to a similar thread:
The iPhone is still just for the 12 and under crowd and hippies too dumb to understand WM based phones. We will always need the iPhone for the same reason we will always need the big tag on the hair dryer telling us not to use it in the tub!

I have to agree with Caned here, whatever is released by HTC etc is just the same old windows mobile skinned up. Until v7 with multi touch comes out and the devices are built to support it then I think its time to look elsewhere for a while - probably an N96 in my case. I have no doubt that I'll be back for another WinMo device but I don't think it will be before the huge overhaul that M$ have been promising for months/years. The only aspect that makes WinMo vaguely usable is that people here write such amazing additions for it and give us access to ROM updates that networks etc don't want us to have.
In short, M$/HTC started a great trend for devices that cover all needs, unfortunately M$ slowed development and the competition (Apple/Symbian) have caught up/overtaken.

Xoom vs Gtab vs iPad impressions from three IT nerds

Summary: Honeycomb UI great but buggy
Xoom hardware and build quality feel excellent but the screen isn't what it should be (iPad is better)
Xoom vs iPad vs Gtab ... FIGHT! (The Gtab lost... big time)
--------------------------
So I left work early with a couple of co-workers to scout out the Xoom. We are all work in technology so we have a pretty good idea of what we want, but we all have different perspectives.
I am the lead Internet Infrastructure Enterprise Engineer for Continental/United Airlines and I own the G-tablet, running VEGAn 1.0.0 beta 5.1.1 and the original Droid 1 running Ultimate Droid 3.0.1 (Gingerbread).
Nick, the iPad/iPhone 4 owner with us is a lead Systems Enterprise Engineer who's focus is Enterprise Active Directory with oversight of the Systems Engineering approval process.
Cory was third member of our scouting party was a Systems Project Engineer whose focus is on consolidation of physical server chassis into Virtual Servers. He currently owns a Droid X, switching to Android from the iPhone 3GS. He and I were looking to potentially purchase the Xoom.
-------------------------------
Our collective impressions:
Positives:
-The Honeycomb interface is more efficient than the iPads adaption of the iPhone UI.
-Xoom hardware felt very solid and reassuring to hold, much better feeling in the hands than a Gtab. It made my Gtab feel plastic-y and bulky.
-You could certainly tell there was a Tegra 2 behind the scenes at work.
-A few of the built in, tablet optimized apps, were refreshing to see on an Android device.
Negatives:
-Screen quality lacked something to be desired, specifically for an $800 device. While it was usable, the nearly year old iPad still had a superior display.
-There is still some work to be done on the software side. The built in browser did not do well at all with large images in websites. ESPN home page was very jumpy and really choked up when zooming in on images, Where as the iPad and my Gtab running Dolphin were relatively smooth.
-The Market is currently lacking many tablet optimized applications, as we all know too well.
-We couldn't determine the sound quality because of an apparent bug. Either the device as 100% volume and very distorted or the sound was off. Changing the volume up or down made no change until you had gone all the way down and the sound turned off.
-----------------------------------
From an enterprise support perspective, Honeycomb still has a ways to go before we could deploy Android tablets as a supported enterprise class device. Much for the same reasons that we do not deploy iPads. I hope that they address enterprise class authentication with user control so we can look at deploying these as enterprise devices. A small side note, Continental has both iOS and Android applications for customers to use but we also have in house iPad applications for ticket agents to use in assisting customers. The application is supported on the enterprise but the iPads themselves are treated like a dumb terminal and are not an endpoint on our network.
From a user/consumer perspective, the device certainly has potential but I feel that the price tag combined with the lack of application support and general software polish make this a niche product for uber geeks at best.
Cory did not end up walking out of Best Buy with the Xoom after all. Instead he decided to keep waiting patiently for a tablet that is more refined with a higher quality screen at that price point or to see what software updates may bring in conjunction with a price drop.
I personally will be hanging on to my Gtab for the time being, patiently waiting for a Honeycomb ROM (I'll certainly be donating to the devs who bring it to us)! I would like to see what the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 and the LG tablet bring and/or a sub $500 Xoom option before making the switch.
Edit: Steve Jobs had already informed Nick that he will be purchasing an iPad2... and Nick does the bidding of Steve for he is an iSheep under the watch and care.

bmangold said:
From a user/consumer perspective, the device certainly has potential but I feel that the price tag combined with the lack of application support and general software polish make this a niche product for uber geeks at best.
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Click to collapse
Remember that the Tegra 3 will be out second half of this year which will be the equivalent of a Quad Core chip. I "personally" was happy enough with my G-Tab (which replaced my iPad) to recently buy a second one. I think this will tide me over until Thanksgiving when you can expect Android 4.0 on a Tegra 3 to truly wipe the floor

Thanks! Good stuff....

EwanG said:
Remember that the Tegra 3 will be out second half of this year which will be the equivalent of a Quad Core chip. I "personally" was happy enough with my G-Tab (which replaced my iPad) to recently buy a second one. I think this will tide me over until Thanksgiving when you can expect Android 4.0 on a Tegra 3 to truly wipe the floor
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Click to collapse
I can't wait for Tegra 3 plus Android 3.1. I've been saying that Android 3.1 could be the beginning of the end for Windows in the consumer space. When people have a phone powerful enough to replace their Windows machines, that has a UI that scales from phone form factor up to tablet/netbook scale... not many people are going to care about buying a new computer.
I'm too much of a PC gamer to ditch Windows currently, but if Android tablet game development takes off... watch out.

Nokia/WP7- Is anything new being brought to the table?

Microsoft, a titan of the software industry, entirely unmatched. Nokia, once THE hardware giant in the mobile industry, fallen from graces due to poor software. Sounds like a romance etched in the stars for bards to write soliloquys about until time dth end, right? Well, according to the press, this is just a terrible idea.
Earlier this year, Microsoft announced an exclusive partnership with Nokia granting them more power over an already beautiful OS. Numerous jobs were lost, the bad press was everywhere, but Elop and Ballmer were smiling for the camera. Things died down, a few even began to see the bright side of what such a merger might offer, but with the release of the technical specifications of nokia's new windows phone devices, windows phone users everywhere froze. They seemed to offer nothing that the other OEMs couldn't. Some were expecting Nokia to blow us away with the use of a dual-core processor on a windows phone flagship device, my only thought, why?
Nokia is a hardware company not known for excessive hardware, but rather how they use it. While android was running sluggish on a 1 GHz snapdragon, symbian was smooth on a much lesser chipset. Nokia never was the greatest manufacturer for the power in the phone, just great execution be it their battery life which is absolutely phenomenal opposed to that of most smartphones, or their build quality, which provides a durable, polished, and attractive device. Don't even get me started on the camera's they've so often been praised for since the early days of smartphones. Nokia is a hardware company to be revered, even if not for their power.
Now, with WP7's strict hardware limitations allowing very specific chipsets in their devices, the chipset is not the issue by any means. What Microsoft needs now is a beautiful device with a great camera to take advantage of the fastest camera app out there, a great battery life to provide hours of smooth, lag-free browsing, and a polished build quality to match the polished OS.
Do I think WP7/Nokia could be a game changer? I'd like to think so, but only time will tell. For now, I'll just continue salivating over the new Nokia 800.

Lol... dude... I admire your "eff you all I will still create useless threads" attitude.

Nothing useless about this thread. Please don't continue to troll it. I'm looking for valid opinions and responses.

K here is one.... I totally agree that Nokia makes great phones, and uses the OS nicely, just wish that OS wasn't windows based. Because I hate windows. Its slow, outdated, and cumbersome and lags incessantly when executing the smallest of tasks.
And cool the camera is nice!?! Polished turd.
---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 PM ----------
and to answer your question in the thread title, I will go out on a very strong and healthy limb and say no. Just look at junk devices of past like the dell venue pro
---------- Post added at 03:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------
Should have called it the semi pro
---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------
or the all cons and no pros

You may call me a mad conspiracy theory believer who wears tin foil as a hat and disconnect ethernet cable and delete all the history after using Internet, but
I really believe that Elop is a trojan sent by Microsoft.
Look. N9 is doing great. MeeGo is promising and the hardware is critically acclaimed. But no - Elop says they are ditching MeeGo in favor of WP7. They put ridiculous pricetag and limit availability in other countries such as Europe and other American cities. (trollmao).

I mean the opinions of people who can discern the difference between windows phone 7 and the desktop OS windows7. The Dell Venue is an android device, the Dell Venue PRO is a windows phone 7 device and somehow I feel that prior to reading my signature you were unaware of the existence of either. You're a troll, and not even a well-educated one.

or the prohibits... because it prohibits you from having a good mobile device experience

Jaunzems said:
You may call me a mad conspiracy theory believer who wears tin foil as a hat and disconnect ethernet cable and delete all the history after using Internet, but
I really believe that Elop is a trojan sent by Microsoft.
Look. N9 is doing great. MeeGo is promising and the hardware is critically acclaimed. But no - Elop says they are ditching MeeGo in favor of WP7. They put ridiculous pricetag and limit availability in other countries in Europe and other American cities. (trollmao).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The primary issue with MeeGo is that regardless of how well it did, it could only be a second-rate android. They wanted a software that could play on it's own field and it does. Plus as someone who attempted MeeGo development I can assure you, it never would have had half of the developer support that even a budding OS like Windows Phone 7 does. The developer tools were an abomination and with the base OS code it would not have taken too much to get sluggish.

Seriously you sound like barrack Obama when you argue. No valid points just vague descriptions

z33dev33l said:
Microsoft, a titan of the software industry, entirely unmatched. Nokia, once THE hardware giant in the mobile industry, fallen from graces due to poor software. Sounds like a romance etched in the stars for bards to write soliloquys about until time dth end, right? Well, according to the press, this is just a terrible idea.
Earlier this year, Microsoft announced an exclusive partnership with Nokia granting them more power over an already beautiful OS. Numerous jobs were lost, the bad press was everywhere, but Elop and Ballmer were smiling for the camera. Things died down, a few even began to see the bright side of what such a merger might offer, but with the release of the technical specifications of nokia's new windows phone devices, windows phone users everywhere froze. They seemed to offer nothing that the other OEMs couldn't. Some were expecting Nokia to blow us away with the use of a dual-core processor on a windows phone flagship device, my only thought, why?
Nokia is a hardware company not known for excessive hardware, but rather how they use it. While android was running sluggish on a 1 GHz snapdragon, symbian was smooth on a much lesser chipset. Nokia never was the greatest manufacturer for the power in the phone, just great execution be it their battery life which is absolutely phenomenal opposed to that of most smartphones, or their build quality, which provides a durable, polished, and attractive device. Don't even get me started on the camera's they've so often been praised for since the early days of smartphones. Nokia is a hardware company to be revered, even if not for their power.
Now, with WP7's strict hardware limitations allowing very specific chipsets in their devices, the chipset is not the issue by any means. What Microsoft needs now is a beautiful device with a great camera to take advantage of the fastest camera app out there, a great battery life to provide hours of smooth, lag-free browsing, and a polished build quality to match the polished OS.
Do I think WP7/Nokia could be a game changer? I'd like to think so, but only time will tell. For now, I'll just continue salivating over the new Nokia 800.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all of the above, makes the phones very boring
i don't see a future for Nokia, at the very least they got MS to bail them out if they do go under after this epic fail

Development in MeeGo is in Qt framework, and it means easy porting to other platforms - you can easily recompile apps to Symbian, Debian, Tizen or even Android if you like to.
I'm surprised that the board of shareholders hasn't kicked Elop out to the moon yet.
I think your happy times with WP7 has been very damaging to your critical sense, and you ar starting to sound like these ignorant iOS fanboytrolls. OK, you love your Venue Pro, it suits your needs and it makes you happyface. But you can't say that WP7 will suit everyone, or will make unicorns and magnets, solve the African lack of food and cure cancer. Your needs != needs of everyone.

I just realized why Nokia may not have gone the Android route. It's possible Nokia knew that Android was stolen and didn't want to get involved with it.
Now, about Nokia hardware, I believe the partnership of MS and Nokia was good and will bare fruit. I believe Nokia can be MS's "iPhone" producer. And I think this is what MS is doing by keeping the size down. They are building high-quality, highly polished devices that don't blow anything away but establish a reliable brand, instead. But My opinion is, Nokia needs to step it up a bit in some of the hardware. The pentile-based AMOLED they will be using with the 800 is much lower level than the top-end Retina display the iPhone 4 uses. If MS wants Nokia to be their iPhone" producing brand, the hardware needs to be higher level.

Can someone check his ip or something to see if he's Steve Baldmer?

z33dev33l said:
The primary issue with MeeGo is that regardless of how well it did, it could only be a second-rate android. They wanted a software that could play on it's own field and it does. Plus as someone who attempted MeeGo development I can assure you, it never would have had half of the developer support that even a budding OS like Windows Phone 7 does. The developer tools were an abomination and with the base OS code it would not have taken too much to get sluggish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Meego was born because nokia didn't want to go Android like others did, but still it was a very desperate try. Personally i can't think of a Nokia powered Android device, basically because Nokia has always managed its software like a control freak (similar to Apple's approach), they don't wanna see their precious hardware messed up by third party apps and unsupported firmware. WP7 was actually the only way to go for them if you ask me. I really, really hope this will be a success, i had so much love for my old Nokia phones: i still have my N95 in a drawer and it still feels like he's the king...that bad boy was a masterpiece, i definitely want more from Nokia

Nokia didn't go the android route because then they'd be just another mid-sized fish in an ocean of OEM's rather than the big fish on something new and promising.
Jaunzems, aside from the people who feel the need to mod I most certainly can. The developer tools are infinitely better than any other OS, it does everything pretty much anyone would need for a phone, and does it faster than the rest, not to mention the seamless integration for social networking which is an oh so integral aspect of everyday life in these times.

MartyLK said:
I just realized why Nokia may not have gone the Android route. It's possible Nokia knew that Android was stolen and didn't want to get involved with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Android isn't stolen. Does Andro has Springboard? Syncronizing with iTunes? Did iOS have Notification area before Andro? Multitasking? Cut-copy-paste?
2) No, they moved away from Android, because using Android would be, citing Anssi Vanjoki, "peeing in their pants" like Finnish boys do to keep warm. Everyone uses it because it's cheap and fast way to get into the smartphone market and Nokia thinks that if they would choose Android, they would be treated like
And, despite the fact Nokia has very good software dev team, stock android unstableness and chaotic battery management would be too tough chalenge for loyal Nokia clients to take - business customers, "sunday" users etc.
Also there is a part in their agreement with Microsoft that states they get a big bunch of money if they never ever look towards Android.

Jaunzems said:
1) Android isn't stolen. Does Andro has Springboard? Syncronizing with iTunes? Did iOS have Notification area before Andro? Multitasking? Cut-copy-paste?
2) No, they moved away from Android, because using Android would be, citing Anssi Vanjoki, "peeing in their pants" like Finnish boys do to keep warm. Everyone uses it because it's cheap and fast way to get into the smartphone market and Nokia thinks that if they would choose Android, they would be treated like
And, despite the fact Nokia has very good software dev team, stock android unstableness and chaotic battery management would be too tough chalenge for loyal Nokia clients to take - business customers, "sunday" users etc.
Also there is a part in their agreement with Microsoft that states they get a big bunch of money if they never ever look towards Android.
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Yes, Android...the technology that makes it up, or its foundation, is stolen...from Apple. That being the case, anything Google invents or produces with and in Android belongs to Apple. That means the notification bar that Apple is using and the notification bar that Android is using belongs to Apple.
http://www.dailytech.com/Steve+Jobs...Because+Its+a+Stolen+Product/article23077.htm

I didn't find in that article, what's exactly stolen from iOS.

Jaunzems said:
I didn't find in that article, what's exactly stolen from iOS.
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But the fact that Schmidt tried to make a deal with Apple is proof of stolen goods.

MartyLK said:
Yes, Android...the technology that makes it up, or its foundation, is stolen...from Apple. That being the case, anything Google invents or produces with and in Android belongs to Apple. That means the notification bar that Apple is using and the notification bar that Android is using belongs to Apple.
http://www.dailytech.com/Steve+Jobs...Because+Its+a+Stolen+Product/article23077.htm
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as much as I agree that android is largely stolen property you really can't use a quote from Steve Jobs as a source for such an argument.

sold out, but how many?

I see Microsoft reported on version of the surface sold out of pre order. initial estimates were 2-5 million units (including all the models) were on hand for pre order.
I'm curious if anyone has seen links to estimated numbers of sales of the sold out units. a million,100000, 10000?
haven't seen a big grinning "I told you so" mug from balmer yet... hmmm
post whatchafind here.

I'm sure that the stock they have made available online is nowhere near the number of units that they have actually produced for availability. The online stock was probably a small quantity. Of course, I'm sure we won't know much about numbers till after launch.
Don't forget they need to have units available to ship to other retailers and they need to have units to ship to their own stores. I think at this point, pre-ordering at a Microsoft Store is your best bet.

The number would be really small maybe even not an amount but a clever marketing person going after x amount of time we will display the cheapest version as out of stock! This then creates a panic in the wait and see crowd who then jump in and pre order the higher models. Basically I wouldn't believe anything you see till they produce numbers as this is the typical rubbish people pull. I mean isn't it amazing how EVERY xmas the current games consoles go out of stock only to all of a sudden have loads in the last couple of weeks??? They know that loads of people would want to wait and see but if they do then you don't get high first sales and you stall but if you make people think they might miss out its amazing how many people will jump at it.
That said I hope they have sold loads and cant wait to get mine, after an initial worry on pricing I have decided its worth it, after all you can run bluestacks for apps so that's now not a problem

lumpaywk said:
The number would be really small maybe even not an amount but a clever marketing person going after x amount of time we will display the cheapest version as out of stock! This then creates a panic in the wait and see crowd who then jump in and pre order the higher models. Basically I wouldn't believe anything you see till they produce numbers as this is the typical rubbish people pull. I mean isn't it amazing how EVERY xmas the current games consoles go out of stock only to all of a sudden have loads in the last couple of weeks??? They know that loads of people would want to wait and see but if they do then you don't get high first sales and you stall but if you make people think they might miss out its amazing how many people will jump at it.
That said I hope they have sold loads and cant wait to get mine, after an initial worry on pricing I have decided its worth it, after all you can run bluestacks for apps so that's now not a problem
Click to expand...
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BlueStacks is a regular desktop application - RT does not run desktop applications, unfortunately.

Valerianus said:
BlueStacks is a regular desktop application - RT does not run desktop applications, unfortunately.
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Click to collapse
Please check this link http://bluestacks.com/technology/ You will see that there will be an ARM bluestacks for windows 8 launch (maybe a small wait).
"•Android on Windows (for ARM):
Run Android on Windows on ARM architectures starting with the Windows 8 release"

lumpaywk said:
The number would be really small maybe even not an amount but a clever marketing person going after x amount of time we will display the cheapest version as out of stock! This then creates a panic in the wait and see crowd who then jump in and pre order the higher models.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The trouble is that the higher models of the Surface are now on backorder too. Some people may not bother preordering, anymore.

Looks like the last week of October will be a fun week. All three of the Big Boys (APL, MSFT, GOOG) will be releasing new toys: iPad Mini, Surface RT, and rumored Nexus 10 by Samsung.
The Samsung Nexus 10 if true should be a beast. 2560x1600, likely Exynos 5 Dual (5250) based on Cortex-A15. Base pricing should be same as iPad. If so, we'd be looking at three 10"-ish tabs from the three platforms at the same $499 price.
Out of the three, Nexus 10 would win on hardware, iPad on software (apps). Doesn't look good for Surface RT, no matter how MS spins the "low-res is just as good as hi-res".

e.mote said:
Looks like the last week of October will be a fun week. All three of the Big Boys (APL, MSFT, GOOG) will be releasing new toys: iPad Mini, Surface RT, and rumored Nexus 10 by Samsung.
The Samsung Nexus 10 if true should be a beast. 2560x1600, likely Exynos 5 Dual (5250) based on Cortex-A15. Base pricing should be same as iPad. If so, we'd be looking at three 10"-ish tabs from the three platforms at the same $499 price.
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Click to collapse
Meh... It's still just Android, only on a bigger, high-res screen, running smartphone apps... Double meh for iPad Mini and the same boring UI on a 7" screen...
Although, I do agree on the screen resolution. I don't understand why MS didn't specify at least a 1080 screen on the RT especially with Office pre-installed. Windows Phone 8 on a 4"-5" screen, Windows 8 RT on a 10" tablet, Windows 8 Pro on a 27" desktop, Xbox w/ kinect on a 50" TV and SmartGlass to connect them all... what more do you need?

>I don't understand why MS didn't specify at least a 1080 screen on the RT
I think it's because of a long development cycle. The Surface specs were probably finalized some time last year, when 1280x800 tablets (and the $499 price) were still the norm. The low-priced KFs and N7s didn't exist then.
BTW, here's a good read on Steven Sinofsky, the exec in charge of the whole Windows initiatives, including Surface. His rigid management style, as depicted in the piece, may be the underlying reason for Surface's current state.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57536905-75/steven-sinofsky-microsofts-controversial-mr-windows-8/

e.mote said:
>I don't understand why MS didn't specify at least a 1080 screen on the RT
I think it's because of a long development cycle. The Surface specs were probably finalized some time last year, when 1280x800 tablets (and the $499 price) were still the norm. The low-priced KFs and N7s didn't exist then.
BTW, here's a good read on Steven Sinofsky, the exec in charge of the whole Windows initiatives, including Surface. His rigid management style, as depicted in the piece, may be the underlying reason for Surface's current state.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57536905-75/steven-sinofsky-microsofts-controversial-mr-windows-8/
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Click to collapse
I think also going with a higher res screen has its tradeoffs - requires more battery consumption(screen is the main factor in battery life) and smoothness of the OS. Isn't this an issue wit hthe Ipda3 vs the Iad 2 - I head battery was worse. My wife has a Nexus 7, and the great thing about it is the OS is snappy, partially because its only a 7 inch screen but running a quad core to drive it.
I know the screen display has become a big issue with Apple - But the Surface is at least better than the Ipad 2 (maybe not the Ipad 3) but again, aren't we all getting caught up in specs without knowing implementation and real world use. Its funny how Apple is focusing on how their screen is better, but they are still running a dual core processor, and fall short in so many other areas including usb, micro SD. But one thing I am curious about is implementation of USB devices on RT - how compatible will it be considering there may not be drivers for everything.
I do agree with MS that resolution alone isn't everything - Contrast has a lot to do with it. I am still running a 2005 50" Panasonic plasma at home that is only 720p but I have to tell you it looks just as good as some cheap 1080ps I have seen lately. There's the same argument when it comes to megapixel counts on camers with cheap CMOS (More is not always better).
We have to remember we are also just talking about a 10" screen.
I have my 64gb Surface with touch cover on orderand will have on or before 26th (Ordered it before the backorder came on). I Am curious what the return policy is for Microsoft Online store if this thing turns out to be a dud after all.

>I know the screen display has become a big issue with Apple - But the Surface is at least better than the Ipad 2 (maybe not the Ipad 3)
This is PR spin coming out of MS. Nobody knows how Surface RT fares in a head-to-head match against iPad 2/3, because MS still hasn't let anyone review it. May be the spin is right, and may be not, but I'd rather hear it from a less biased source.
Anyway, the spin falls apart when one considers that MS is pricing the RT against iPad 3 (actually higher than the 3), not the 2.
>aren't we all getting caught up in specs without knowing implementation and real world use
Sure, geeks tend to obsess with specs. Regular Joes care about other things, like screen image, size/weight/style, brand, price, and apps. RT loses in most if not all these categories.
>Its funny how Apple is focusing on how their screen is better, but they are still running a dual core processor, and fall short in so many other areas including usb, micro SD.
I thought we weren't going to talk about specs. About that, you do realize that the Teg3 used in Surface RT is a year-old design that's now used in the $200 Nexus 7, right? You also realize that the Exynos 5 dual blows away the Teg3 quad, right?
>I do agree with MS that resolution alone isn't everything - Contrast has a lot to do with it.
Here's a counterpoint: If low-res is just as good as high-res, then why not put the same low-res on Surface Pro?
Yes, the PPI thing is partly a marketing thing, just as was the megahertz war of yore. Part of it confers real benefits, part of it is hype. But understand that MS is pooh-pooh'ing high-res display because its own product use dated components. Surface RT has 2011 parts, and MS simply didn't keep up with the fast pace of advancing technology.
>I Am curious what the return policy is for Microsoft Online store if this thing turns out to be a dud after all.
http://google.com/search?q=microsoft+store+return+policy

e.mote said:
>I know the screen display has become a big issue with Apple - But the Surface is at least better than the Ipad 2 (maybe not the Ipad 3)
This is PR spin coming out of MS. Nobody knows how Surface RT fares in a head-to-head match against iPad 2/3, because MS still hasn't let anyone review it. May be the spin is right, and may be not, but I'd rather hear it from a less biased source.
Anyway, the spin falls apart when one considers that MS is pricing the RT against iPad 3 (actually higher than the 3), not the 2.
>aren't we all getting caught up in specs without knowing implementation and real world use
Sure, geeks tend to obsess with specs. Regular Joes care about other things, like screen image, size/weight/style, brand, price, and apps. RT loses in most if not all these categories.
>Its funny how Apple is focusing on how their screen is better, but they are still running a dual core processor, and fall short in so many other areas including usb, micro SD.
I thought we weren't going to talk about specs. About that, you do realize that the Teg3 used in Surface RT is a year-old design that's now used in the $200 Nexus 7, right? You also realize that the Exynos 5 dual blows away the Teg3 quad, right?
>I do agree with MS that resolution alone isn't everything - Contrast has a lot to do with it.
Here's a counterpoint: If low-res is just as good as high-res, then why not put the same low-res on Surface Pro?
Yes, the PPI thing is partly a marketing thing, just as was the megahertz war of yore. Part of it confers real benefits, part of it is hype. But understand that MS is pooh-pooh'ing high-res display because its own product use dated components. Surface RT has 2011 parts, and MS simply didn't keep up with the fast pace of advancing technology.
>I Am curious what the return policy is for Microsoft Online store if this thing turns out to be a dud after all.
http://google.com/search?q=microsoft+store+return+policy
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Click to collapse
Regarding return policy - I guess I was looking for a more real world understanding from someone. Had previously read the official, and it basically says that if its a computer, which it is, and it has been opened, then they won't take it back. So basically we are all screwed if we don't like this thing after opening it and bought it from Microsoft online.
not a very good return policy.

Nobody really knows about MS return policy, because this is the first time MS is selling a whole computer (as opposed to just peripherals). I think your best bet is to phone or go to a MS store and get the low-down on Oct 26.
Really, if you're unsure, just don't get RT on launch day. Wait for reviews, and to see what other choices are there. There'll be lots. Personally, I think once Clovertrail tabs show up at $499, that'll be the best option for Win users who want regular Windows on a tablet.
BTW, news peeps who went to the MS Surface "Hardware R Us" shindig have all gotten a Surface RT unit for review, and NDA should be lifted today (Tues Oct 23), so we should have a better idea of what Win RT is shortly.

e.mote said:
Really, if you're unsure, just don't get RT on launch day. Wait for reviews, and to see what other choices are there. There'll be lots. Personally, I think once Clovertrail tabs show up at $499, that'll be the best option for Win users who want regular Windows on a tablet.
.
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Or AMD-Z60 as it should be cheaper has more graphics ability (run call of duty at 30fps) and has better support for bluestacks. That said it uses more power gets hotter and needs more airflow.

Now that NDA is lifted, looks like the first Surface RT review is up. Unsurprising verdict: Still too many unknowns.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/23/microsoft-surface-rt-review/

REALLY REALLY wanted this to be a good tablet.

I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.

ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought a good tablet, mate. build quality and software is awesome, that's why u got interested in the first place.
On the other hand, will it get support?, i believe in time it will. My reasons is touch screen. Touch is the future, yes x86 apps already exist but they dont exist in touch. So the future being touch will revolutionize the existing apps for touch and this will make room for metro apps. And this is were rt will win.
Secondly the future is portable, x86 is not, rt is. Windows 8 is bridge to what will become sindows of the future, a touch only windows. Besides if MS fails in marketing RT, someone else will want a cut of the pie and market RT.
Lastly, modders will break this device before xmas, sideloading will b possible,emulation will happen and i foresee a future were android emulators will run on this beast. A lot will happen
RT has potential, surface may fail but RT will not cos its light weight and its future proof.

I think RT will not fail. PPL will wait till they see their lovely apps on it but they will come. Windows is used on more than 90% of the computers in the world. So I think its just a matter of time to developers finish and publish their apps. Even if winRT won't get as popular as win8, the code is almost the same which makes easy to publish the same app for Arm.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express

you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.

I think that the biggest hurdle for Windows RT is the WinRT runtime. It's horribly gimped. I was honestly amazed at how god awful and stunted C# was in WinRT. It's almost as if they intentionally limited it for reasons only MS knows.

First off, Microsoft haven't announced a halving of orders. It is merely conjecture. What they have announced is support for Surface RT until 2017 though we dont know any details around this.
I dont think that Windows RT will be a big platform in the way that other lightweight OS's are - iOS and Android - but I do think it offers something unique. If you use tons of popular apps on other platforms, you will be disappointed in the Surface RT. If you live in a web browser, you will love Surface RT. I am not sure this will change unless those apps come for Windows 8 and can also be cross compiled for Windows RT.
If a 10" tablet is what you want and it fits your life, I see only 2 usable options - an iPad or a Surface RT. Android is awful on 10" tablets.
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.

quoted:
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.
pro =$1000, 4ish hour battery life.
no sales numbers released from rt.
ruh roh.

What about the Lenovo Twist? Windows 8 Pro, i5, 128gb SSD 12.5 touch screen and it is a tablet and laptop.. I returned my Surface and bought a Twist for $699 on BF.. Hoping it will do it all....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

Got to agree with some of the above posts.
RT is the future of windows, it is the new NT, and some of us older users will remember how that was initially received...

The Surface RT is one helluva sexy tablet. In build quality, specs, and screen beauty it just is awesome. Really without software it is way ahead of the whole pack..... I played with it a long time....
But every time I interacted with the windows interface, there was just that familiar slow feeling. I am even now very serious about the Surface RT and am hotly debating buying it. But the software is just slightly underwhelming. I love the Metro interface, but not whats under it.
IF you do web browisng, games, movies and pics ONLY - this is an ABSOLUTELY must buy. The gorgeous experience is unbeatable. But the whole interaction at the windows level tends to wake me up from my dream. Having support for proper PowerPoint with HDMI ouput makes this a traveling presentation platform etc. But apps? apps? apps? You cannot entice people if the apps are missing - you cannot say " buy it now, I guarantee that apps are coming". It does not work with consumers. That it may lead to a slow down fro the Surface is one of my biggest fears.
On a tablet I browse the internet, listen to music, read books, email, and watch some sports. So by my own standard I should buy it. But Windows keeps me away...
One thing I do not agree about as said above - that windows desktop is not for touch. Using the touch laptops I find this to be quite intuitive, coming from a tablet world. Yes, on vertical screens one's hands can get tired to do a lot of touching - holding it up to the screen for extended periods. But I find it much more natural than trackpads - I hate trackpads, even Apple's "magic" trackpad ....
My 2 cents.... I need to decide if I just want a tablet, or a tablet that can double as a small laptop.

saryu said:
you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro

ctitanic said:
In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
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Click to collapse
After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.

ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It very depends on your propose, what you need for it.
for me, i do need a lot excel , ppt, word, and I tried do it on iPad, it sucks. I own a Macbook Air, but a bit trouble while checking something on street .....
After testing Surface for an hour, I love it. Of course if you looking for fun more than a working tab, its not a good choice at this moment as lack of apps support.
Just hope Chrome will come and get more apps soon , then will be the king of tablet im sure.

guitar1969 said:
After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. I can't put the damn thing down! The browser experience is sensational. And Xbox music is phenomenally good! I mean free streaming music, albeit with fairly unobtrusive add support.
And as for apps you needn't worry. The company I work for has figured out that Windows 8 is going onto every budget laptop from here on out and the Windows 8 marketplace presents a great opportunity. As such are having their iOS & Android app ported to Win8 as we speak.
Also as another example the impetus to get into Windows 8/RT the VLC Player devs are going to the extreme of going to Kickstarter for funding to hire full time devs to get VLC Player into the Windows 8 marketplace as fast as possible... http://www.wpcentral.com/vlc-starts-kickstarter-windows-8-and-beyond-development-funding
So I sincerely believe the WINRT app catalogue will really take off.
Also, you know it's a good device when the missus is continually wanting it off you!

I agree with others... The RT has a good life to it. The problem IMO, is that people are holding out to see the Pro, then they'll decide.
Honestly I think people will end up with the RT over the Pro.
You just can't use a 10" screen for full desktop applications. It doesn't work.
Also, and this is big, the Pro is not using a Run Time system, that means you must shut it down when not in use, it will suspend instead of sleep, and it will go through battery like mad (they expect 4 hours max).
If you like how fast the Surface RT turns on, and how your e-mails, status updates, and calendar reminders are there, kiss that goodbye with the Pro. It is, for all intents and purposes, a PC in a thin form factor. An engineering marvel for sure, but I think people will expect it to be like the Surface RT, iPad, or Android tab just beefier. When they find out it isn't, I think RT sales will shoot up.

I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.

guitar1969 said:
I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft will continue to optimise the base firmware of the device to improve performance. They've released one such update already and there will be plenty more to come.
Just look how far they've pushed the Xbox 360.