Related
While I know this might not be the greatest place to put this here, and I'm not trying to start any flame wars, but I figured because this topic implies the bettering of our phones, I thought I should put this here.
With the recent Google affair about not releasing the source code on Honeycomb, how open can we expect Android to be? Technically speaking, the only open thing about Android is the app store, and even that has seen better days.
While some people think that Google is doing this just because they feel like it, I honestly believe that they rushed somewhere and need to patch the hole before more malware-like apps enter the app store and wreak havoc on Honeycomb.
So I leave the question here, what do you guys think about this whole ordeal, and has this effected your views on Google in anyway?
They will release it
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
They have to release it, it is open source.
liorweitz said:
They have to release it, it is open source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they don't if they dont want to!
Go and read up on the Apache Software Licence, which Android is licensed under.
That being said, I fully expect Google to release the source code when they are good and ready.
Regards,
Dave
I also believe that they abuse the term open, anyway.
Sent from my Droid using XDA Premium App
Protocol 7 said:
I also believe that they abuse the term open, anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Openness means, among others, that you can grab sources, close them and release only binaries. Otherwise it would be copyleft, not true openness.
The title says it all. WTF Google??
Started a support thread here. (WARNING: strong language)
Edit: Other threads/links of similar interest:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1098192
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1098023
http://androidforums.com/android-applications/343376-yongzh-emulators-gone-market.html
SlideMe page where he is temporarily offering his emulators for free: here.
Edit: Some more interesting info here:
http://www.zodttd.com/wp/2011/05/it-hit-hard/
Strong language is an under statement. Lol. I never noticed cause I restore my apps after flashing a Rom
I noticed coz may 26th he was going to re-release N64oid with much higher compatibility. He spent a good 2 months working on N64oid and google removes all his apps the day he was gonna release it. Dirty
How does that work exactly, considering we PAID for these apps? (I bought NESoid when it first came out, I flashed a new ROM and now I don't have it anymore which pisses me off)
jlukek89 said:
I noticed coz may 26th he was going to re-release N64oid with much higher compatibility. He spent a good 2 months working on N64oid and google removes all his apps the day he was gonna release it. Dirty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very dirty.
uoY_redruM said:
How does that work exactly, considering we PAID for these apps? (I bought NESoid when it first came out, I flashed a new ROM and now I don't have it anymore which pisses me off)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read that those who've emailed the developer had the apks sent to them. Worth a shot, Yongzh is a respectable dev and I'm sure he'd help you out.
They are all available on the Slideme market for free (for a little while atleast). He set them to free so those that had purchased them would get a chance to reinstall without having to pay again. This includes N64oid.
He stole the source code from here and there and sold it as his. He deserved it.
Quit your *****ing. He based his work of GPL licensed FOSS programs and didnot GPL his code or display the previous code licenses. He's an asshat.
bobtentpeg said:
Quit your *****ing. He based his work of GPL licensed FOSS programs and didnot GPL his code or display the previous code licenses. He's an asshat.
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Click to collapse
And you really think this is why they were removed? I highly doubt it.
negroplasty said:
And you really think this is why they were removed? I highly doubt it.
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Click to collapse
Actually, I would be highly surprised if this wasnt related to their removal. The FOSS project heads have complained in the past to Google. And despite what you may think, Google takes license violations very seriously. Because the Market servers are separate from the Android project, Google is liable for them separately, and have in the past removed applications that fail to follow the lience requirements.
bobtentpeg said:
Quit your *****ing. He based his work of GPL licensed FOSS programs and didnot GPL his code or display the previous code licenses. He's an asshat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you know that? I somehow could not find any references about him basing apps on open source code prior to this incident.
I wont say he has or hasnt made any violations, but I will say his emulator for N64 functions almost EXACTLY like mupen64 does in ubuntu(glitches I've seen and all). Also If he is writing from scratch by himself, I'm confident that it would take much longer to make one like N64oid then it has. Again, he may have done all this work and is getting alot of crap for it for no reason. I still think the emulatos hes made work great and I activly use them, but I think he needs to make some sort of statment on the issue to clearify things.
http //www reddit com/r/Android/comments/hmwj7/android_markets_most_popular_emulators_disappear/
http //www snes9x com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4454
http //www gp32x com/board/index.php?/topic/58889-n64-for-android/
Sorry about the links. I don't have the minimum post count. I'm mostly a lurker.
all right then, pitchforks and torches it is..
otakuloser said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/hmwj7/android_markets_most_popular_emulators_disappear/
http://www.snes9x.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4454
http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/58889-n64-for-android/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Made links clickable.
Even if Snesoid and N64oid were ripps that still doesn't answer why everything was pulled...
negroplasty said:
Even if Snesoid and N64oid were ripps that still doesn't answer why everything was pulled...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, because when not one, but two of his apps are confirmed as rip-offs, the benefit of the doubt wears pretty thin as to whether the rest of them are also rip-offs. Besides, aren't two violations good enough reason to ban him and all of his apps? This is all speculation though, as Google won't say exactly why his account and apps were removed.
An interesting read for those talking about open source licenses:
http://www.zodttd.com/wp/2011/05/it-hit-hard/ (also added to the OP)
negroplasty said:
An interesting read for those talking about open source licenses:
http://www.zodttd.com/wp/2011/05/it-hit-hard/ (also added to the OP)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given a number a license holders (see above links) say they never heard from/were working with either of the developers, I call bull****.
Guys search the market for Real64, It's a N64 Emulator, It looks like someone has just ripped of N64oid and repacked it even the icon is the same
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.advcaveman.real64
So..
Does it have rumble?
Sent from my Xperia PLAY R800i using XDA App
The author claims it's a port of mupen64plus, an open source emulator, and he seems really intent in describing the components of the emulator. Either he's a very cheeky ripoff or it's the real deal.
Its clearly a rip off. the Gui and even the app icon is a complete copy of yongzh's n64oid.
heres the legit n64oid http://slideme.org/application/n64oid
edit: heck even the version number is the same!
Logseman said:
The author claims it's a port of mupen64plus, an open source emulator, and he seems really intent in describing the components of the emulator. Either he's a very cheeky ripoff or it's the real deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The description is a simple cut-and-paste of yongzh's description.
If you guys looked closer, youll see about 6 or 7 N64oid's uploaded to the market, just look at the other emulators screenshots, they didnt even bother using their own! That is seriously not fair that a legit dev like yongzh gets booted from market but the android market team still lets this drivel stay. *sigh* I dont care if he didnt use his own source code, he was the first to actually bring us a n64 emu to android and he did that very well. Damn.
I stand corrected.
He's going to get banned from the market for the same reason Yongzh did. You can't repack or port an open source project and sell it for personal gain. That's the whole point of an open source license.
Don't get your hopes up on buying this and getting a constantly evolving or improving emulator.
Clyzm said:
You can't repack or port an open source project and sell it for personal gain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A common misconception:
A program is free software if users have all of these freedoms [The 4 Freedoms]. Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere.
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Click to collapse
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Probably is the guy who was pretending to have a ps3 emulator in dev and asking for donations.
He even added yongzh to his credits.
Since yongzh's version was paid, isn't it illegal? You can't exactly take paid software, rip it off completely, then sell it for your own profit, right?
speedyink said:
He even added yongzh to his credits.
Since yongzh's version was paid, isn't it illegal? You can't exactly take paid software, rip it off completely, then sell it for your own profit, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yongzh took somebody elses work (mupen64plus) changed it and sold it for money which he shouldn't really do (although his emulator is awesome!). this dude stole yongzh's work and made absolutely no changes, which is alot worse imo. it even seems insulting and lazy that he would use the same icon and description.
bubblegumballon said:
Yongzh took somebody elses work (mupen64plus) changed it and sold it for money which he shouldn't really do (although his emulator is awesome!). this dude stole yongzh's work and made absolutely no changes, which is alot worse imo. it even seems insulting and lazy that he would use the same icon and description.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm completely aware of his ripping off mupen64plus, but this is different, he at least put SOME work into it in order to make it compatible with android. He also needs to keep putting in time to update it, so I'll pay him as incentive to keep working on it.
Logseman said:
A common misconception:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging a fee for distribution is a very different thing from re-packing an existing program and selling it.
Buying an Ubuntu disc is paying for distribution. Buying Ubuntu and giving the distributor profit is misuse of open source.
Yongzh's account was pulled from the market because his Super Nintendo emulator was pretty much a repacked version of Snes9x and sold for profit. Yongzh can now make the same claim about Real64 if he actually ported Mupen64 properly himself, and it wasn't just another Java wrapper.
You know what, I stand corrected:
GNU Article said:
You may have paid money to get copies of free software, or you may have obtained copies at no charge. But regardless of how you got your copies, you always have the freedom to copy and change the software, even to sell copies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However, having read through that, there's a few more infringements here. Both Yongzh and this new developer of Real64 are distributing a version of Mupen64 (and in Yongzh's case, Snes9x) without consent of the original developers, and for profit. If the Mupen64 devs decide to go after them and prove that their software is similar enough, this can still be taken off the market. At this point it's less of an open source issue and more of a copyright issue.
Clyzm said:
Charging a fee for distribution is a very different thing from re-packing an existing program and selling it.
Buying an Ubuntu disc is paying for distribution. Buying Ubuntu and giving the distributor profit is misuse of open source.
Yongzh's account was pulled from the market because his Super Nintendo emulator was pretty much a repacked version of Snes9x and sold for profit. Yongzh can now make the same claim about Real64 if he actually ported Mupen64 properly himself, and it wasn't just another Java wrapper.
You know what, I stand corrected:
However, having read through that, there's a few more infringements here. Both Yongzh and this new developer of Real64 are distributing a version of Mupen64 (and in Yongzh's case, Snes9x) without consent of the original developers, and for profit. If the Mupen64 devs decide to go after them and prove that their software is similar enough, this can still be taken off the market. At this point it's less of an open source issue and more of a copyright issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do i go about getting a refund for this?
I bought it the other day but can no longer download via the market.
-RR
h20wakebum said:
How do i go about getting a refund for this?
I bought it the other day but can no longer download via the market.
-RR
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be my fault It was there yesterday before i wrote an email to google complaining that it's a rip off of n64oid and even if its not, it's breaking the GPL rules sorry
Logseman said:
A common misconception:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The overlooked 5th rule. Feel free to take the work that was taken and sold for personal gain if it is against your personal morals.
NeoandGeo said:
The overlooked 5th rule. Feel free to take the work that was taken and sold for personal gain if it is against your personal morals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does this mean I can take N64oid and add touch pad support and sell it ?
Because that seems to be what n4oid did
subcu1ture said:
So does this mean I can take N64oid and add touch pad support and sell it ?
Because that seems to be what n4oid did
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'd buy it from you...
in the dark alley of course
Clyzm said:
Charging a fee for distribution is a very different thing from re-packing an existing program and selling it.
Buying an Ubuntu disc is paying for distribution. Buying Ubuntu and giving the distributor profit is misuse of open source.
Yongzh's account was pulled from the market because his Super Nintendo emulator was pretty much a repacked version of Snes9x and sold for profit. Yongzh can now make the same claim about Real64 if he actually ported Mupen64 properly himself, and it wasn't just another Java wrapper.
You know what, I stand corrected:
However, having read through that, there's a few more infringements here. Both Yongzh and this new developer of Real64 are distributing a version of Mupen64 (and in Yongzh's case, Snes9x) without consent of the original developers, and for profit. If the Mupen64 devs decide to go after them and prove that their software is similar enough, this can still be taken off the market. At this point it's less of an open source issue and more of a copyright issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do not need to ask for consent from anyone, including the authors. The GPL allows you to sell the software, not just for distribution. Jesus, it's all in the document if you'd read it. SNES9x's license allows it as well.
Read, educate yourself: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
subcu1ture said:
So does this mean I can take N64oid and add touch pad support and sell it ?
Because that seems to be what n4oid did
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, as long as the source that you changed would be licensed under the GPL and freely available.
So far, I've tried the tiger emulators, and a couple of the oid ones.
Anyone know of some that are efficient and thus great for battery life? Any that support cheat codes? Tiger tried adding cheats but they didn't work, and his apps were pulled from the market.
Sent from my R800
I just played Zelda for 5 - 6 hours on N64oid and battery is down to 15%.
Which version are you using? Zelda won't run properly for me, and I sure as hell don't get that kinda battery life playing Mario
Sent from my R800
Orcania of Time.
Are you the guy who is still on 2.3.2?
subcu1ture said:
I just played Zelda for 5 - 6 hours on N64oid and battery is down to 15%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all have to cope with this. Emulators require 10 times the processing power of the host. Which in this case is the n64.
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
subcu1ture said:
Orcania of Time.
Are you the guy who is still on 2.3.2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant which version of n64oid lol
I just updated to the latest and suddenly everything runs perfectly.
Sent from my R800
captain67 said:
I meant which version of n64oid lol
I just updated to the latest and suddenly everything runs perfectly.
Sent from my R800
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
obviously most people will be using n64oid version 2.2.3 the latest version. Unless they pirated it
AndroHero said:
obviously most people will be using n64oid version 2.2.3 the latest version. Unless they pirated it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or you keep deleting the slideme.org app
2.2.3 is the version i am using.
But i was meaning are you still on 2.3.2 gingerbread?
subcu1ture said:
I just played Zelda for 5 - 6 hours on N64oid and battery is down to 15%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow.. Thats grand!
Sent from my Xperia PLAY R800i using XDA App
AndroHero said:
obviously most people will be using n64oid version 2.2.3 the latest version. Unless they pirated it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean pirated from a guy who stole open source software and is reselling it?
It is free software, and there is nothing wrong with going around paying for this particular piece of software.
Free open source software, in the FSF sense of the term, includes reselling it among its freedoms. What license does Mupen 64 have?
It's just my personal belief that open source stays free throughout anyone trying to do anything different with it. It's the only thing I will take without paying, and not feel guilty for.
NeoandGeo said:
It's just my personal belief that open source stays free throughout anyone trying to do anything different with it. It's the only thing I will take without paying, and not feel guilty for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
End of the day yongzh spent time and effort porting the emulator, and he continues to spend his time and effort to improve the emulator.
Imo this constitutes a job. And in a civil society where people have morals. People get paid for there hard work. Your morals might be diffrent though
How would you feel if your boss said. Dya know what, I've decided i'm not paying you for the last weeks work?
That is a little different, and I have learned to stay away from analogies as they can all be picked apart no matter how much one invests in believing it is the be all end all.
I will only see fit to pay for his work if he creates a project himself, and not take another free project tweak it and charge for it. I believe that Google made the right decision on not allowing him to charge for a free open source project, and that allows me to use the "free" work with a clear conscience.
NeoandGeo said:
That is a little different, and I have learned to stay away from analogies as they can all be picked apart no matter how much one invests in believing it is the be all end all.
I will only see fit to pay for his work if he creates a project himself, and not take another free project tweak it and charge for it. I believe that Google made the right decision on not allowing him to charge for a free open source project, and that allows me to use the "free" work with a clear conscience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet google allow people to sell real64 on the market. There application is clearly stolen off yongzh.
Ooh i just checked I think my email to google got real64 kicked off the market
Either way compare the two
http://www.appbrain.com/app/real64-(n64-emulator)/com.advcaveman.real64
http://slideme.org/application/n64oid
The Real64 app was worse than what Yonghz did. But both of these are in the wrong. N64oid should not be paid for at all unless we get something in writing from the original Mupen64 team signing off on him charging for the emulator.
Until then, we should all treat it as fair game.
This thread is gonna end up getting locked like the last one at this rate.
Sent from my R800
NeoandGeo said:
The Real64 app was worse than what Yonghz did. But both of these are in the wrong. N64oid should not be paid for at all unless we get something in writing from the original Mupen64 team signing off on him charging for the emulator.
Until then, we should all treat it as fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mupen64 is licensed under v2 of the GPL, which allows the sale of software licensed under it.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic
He's allowed to sell it. He just needs to make the source available in some way if he made any direct changes to it. Simply creating an Android wrapper that makes calls to the software in question wouldn't violate that. Even offering the source only by snail mail is enough to satisfy the GPL.
If you were right, commercial Linux distributions wouldn't be able to sell retail copies of their distros - and they do and have for years with no complaint from anyone.
So yeah... /thread.
So it is alright if it is obtained by not buying it. Which we should all do, instead of encouraging people to throw their money away at this developer.
NeoandGeo said:
So it is alright if it is obtained by not buying it. Which we should all do, instead of encouraging people to throw their money away at this developer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, what don't you understand?? Your not allowed to steal it, and Yonghz is allowed to sell it. The reason Yonghz and his emulators were kicked off the market, was that he didnt make the source code available on request, as per the GPL rules.
We need to bomb HTC's website with comments to encourage them to release the kernel source code for our device. I suggest we all go to the following link daily and request its release;
http://htcdev.com/contact
HTC just sent me a link to take a survey, another good tool to blast them with.
http://survey.htc.com/worldwide
Code has been released, I like to think all our complaints helped. Feel free to lock this thread if need be!
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
We have been. I've sent them several notices on a near daily basis.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
I doubt that that link is anything more than a placebo.
http://www.htc.com/us/about/contact-by-email
Say something along the lines of "you're in violation of GPLv2 which requires that source be released along with binary. GPLv2 does not allow for anything besides release of source NOT being ANY LATER than binary distribution."
I.e., though GPLv2 doesn't specify an exact time frame, the implication of this is that the source must be made available by the EXACT MOMENT that the binary is distributed. It *does* allow for the source to be released BEFORE the binary, but does NOT allow for the binary to be released before the source.
IMO, the kernel source archive should be included within the system partition of the phone, at least for early releases while there is sufficient storage space for it all to fit. This would greatly simply source distribution.
Even though I went to that page and asked for the kernel source code to be released, it looks like they're on a pretty routine schedule as far as what and when they release things and we're probably still a little ways out on the source code. But it can't HURT to keep trying, right?
Submitted. Hopefully they'll listen up.
BiggJurk said:
We need to bomb HTC's website with comments to encourage them to release the kernel source code for our device. I suggest we all go to the following link daily and request its release;
http://htcdev.com/contact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we have been. As unclespoon said they are on a fairly set release schedule that they must be comfortable with [legal-wise].
Read my replies here, there is another link that got me a response that was from a human:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1247374
HTC does this **** on purpose. They have a bunch of new devices coming out and if they were to release the code that would impact there profit margins. This processor can handle 1.5 ghz as a daily driver. The new HTC amaze has exact same processor but is overclocked 300mhz more then our device. And it has a 1gb of RAM. Samsung has gotten great at releasing there code within 1 week or even earlier. HTC PLEASE TAKE NOTES FROM SAMSUNG.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
FYI
I filled out a customer service survey from HTC and gave them all bad ratings in regards to their non-response for the kernel source code. A representative just personally called me and is trying to get an eta on the release if not email me a copy of the code. I would suggest everyone completes a survey with negative comments at the following location:http://survey.htc.com/worldwide. I know surveys like this affects their metrics and gets managements attention. The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
Regards,
Filled out the survey.
Let's see if they respond.
cal3thousand said:
Filled out the survey.
Let's see if they respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it took them 2 weeks to get back to me.
BiggJurk said:
I think it took them 2 weeks to get back to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess is that they'll "get back to you" in a month or however long until they would have normally released the source code. I think they're too big to be bothered by people complaining about lack of source code. Bottom line is there probably won't ever be any "consequences" as a result of them taking their time on releasing kernel source. We only complain because we want it, but it's not like they are really doing anything wrong by just releasing it on their own schedule.
BiggJurk said:
The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard that before, but I don't see how that's possible since Android is based on Linux. If it were based on BSD that'd be another matter.
BiggJurk said:
The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, congrats to phone guy!! Unfortunately, either he was trying to get you to shut-up or misunderstood what you wanted them to release. Google mostly licensed Android with the Apache 2.0. This allows others to customize Android and they don't have to release their changes i.e. customizations made by phone manufacturers (it means other things too but this was Google's main reason for this license). HTC doesn't have to give us their Android source. The Linux kernel is GPL - there is no way around that. The GPL states that the source must be released at the same time as the binary is released to the end-user (it even states that the source should be no harder to obtain than the binary is i.e. we should get the kernel source with our devices - on the sd card or something). Still have no idea where HTC gets 90-120 days from the GPL wording.
I sent a note to EFF asking if they were aware of whats going on. They said they were and were researching the situation.
---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------
unclespoon said:
but it's not like they are really doing anything wrong by just releasing it on their own schedule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are though. They are directly violating the GNU GPL but you are right - there are too few of us who actually want the kernel source for them to really worry. Can't believe one of the actual Linux kernel devs hasn't caught wind of this and made a statement.
I sent a couple of requests. Let's hope they move their asses.
Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
HebrewToYou said:
Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you were the first one to find it. I thanked you elsewhere you've mentioned it as well.
Maybe the OP can come through and update the thread title.
Edit to add - download reads 94.0MB on the HTC page, but my download over Tmo 4g is saying out of 89.6MB and my home pc is saying 89.7MB...so we'll see what's up when I get it.
YES!!! Time to OC this bad boy..
Please get on it Devs..!!!
RazoE said:
YES!!! Time to OC this bad boy..
Please get on it Devs..!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All ready on it
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium
That's funny.
I just received the HTC reply to my request. I'm going to play like my request was the straw for that camel's back... Your Welcome Everybody!!!
j/k. This is wonderful news though. I'm stoked
Thread locked by OP request