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[Q] Has anyone received a refurbished inspire from att yet?

After returning my captivate for various issues 4 times, att offered me a different model refurb phone, but all of the options they offered me were very unimpressive. The CSR said they would be able to switch me out for an inspire as soon as they got refurbs in their warehouse. This was about a month and a half ago and every time I call them back it takes at least a half hour for someone to finally tell me they dont have any inspires yet. Anyone know how long it takes for them to get refurbs in stock and when I can switch for an inspire?

i'm not sure if i am getting refurbs or not through the ATT insurance, but they allowed me to switch my shattered captivate out for an inspire. Do all refurbs come in a dedicated ATT refurb general box?
The 2 Inspire's i have received from them have both been in the original packaging with everything wrapped in original packaging, all manuals, original plastic cover on the phone, etc. But, the both boxes had been opened, the sticker was torn. The refurb captivate i got from them was in a box that said "refurb" on it and didn't have original packaging and such. 90 day warranty on the captivate, 1 year warranty on the HTC from what they have told me.
So to answer you, yes, i believe there are refurb Inspires out there. Imagine how many people have switched between all the new android phones trying them all out. Those get used as refurbs too.

When did they send you the inspire for the captivate? I have not tried calling them in about a week or two. Also do you have the insurance that you pay for or was that exchange just through warranty?

i received my first inspire about a week and a half ago....second one was this past monday.
and yes, this is through the $5 insurance offered by ATT through a company called Asurion or something. Great company to deal with actually. a shattered captivate + 125 bucks is much better than paying for an early upgrade/using an upgrade/buying used

Well, as I see it, this is indicative of a good quality phone that people are happy with and keeping, for the most part.
I'm on my second inspire, but the first one went back for something rather minor, yet not proper... loose camera lens cover.
Having had a Captivate, it was a different situation altogether. There were obviously fundamental hardware defects that affected a large number of units. Random shutdowns and nearly non-functional gps, along with other inconsistencies from batch to batch.
Sent from my Inspire using XDA Premium

secretsquirrell said:
After returning my captivate for various issues 4 times, att offered me a different model refurb phone, but all of the options they offered me were very unimpressive. The CSR said they would be able to switch me out for an inspire as soon as they got refurbs in their warehouse. This was about a month and a half ago and every time I call them back it takes at least a half hour for someone to finally tell me they dont have any inspires yet. Anyone know how long it takes for them to get refurbs in stock and when I can switch for an inspire?
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YAY!! It's not just me! LOL!! Sorry - I've been dealing with this same problem for YEARS with AT&T's refurbished Pieces of crap!! SO, I Feel your pain!
I just ditched my X10 for the Inspire...And had to go all the way through Retention to get it. Ended up upgrading my line and my wife's line to new phones, and only ended up paying $79 bucks for each phone (She got the Torch, since she doesn't like NOT having a keyboard) then they paid for overnight shipping and we called it good.
I've found (through dealings with them A LOT) that the easiest way to get problems handled is through their retention people...while most of them will be MORE than willing to help you, After your 4th Device exchange, you SHOULD have been eligable to get a new phone PERIOD...or at least, that's what I've gone through with them.
Good Luck though - Maybe try their retention people and see what they can do for you...Just go through all the trouble shooting BS with them, and get to a point where you tell them that you want to Cancel...They are required (by some policy) to send you to that department...THERE is where good things happen

secretsquirrell said:
After returning my captivate for various issues 4 times, att offered me a different model refurb phone, but all of the options they offered me were very unimpressive. The CSR said they would be able to switch me out for an inspire as soon as they got refurbs in their warehouse. This was about a month and a half ago and every time I call them back it takes at least a half hour for someone to finally tell me they dont have any inspires yet. Anyone know how long it takes for them to get refurbs in stock and when I can switch for an inspire?
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^I don't want to burst your bubble here, but most likely a refurbished unit is going to have *something* wrong with it. Every single Inspire I've played with at AT&T stores has had something wrong with it that has annoyed me, from slightly mis-aligned screens, to the volume/rocker buttons that are too recessed, to loose/creaky sim/sd covers, so the loose/wobbly cameras. Same for the captivate - the screen will be too blue, the side rails of the phone will bow out at weird places and then there's the obvious Achilles heel with the GPS. Even the 'magical' IP4 has certain problem areas like creaky home buttons and overly sensitive volume rockers.
I think your best bet, if you want the Inspire, is to press ATT for a new one, and pick it up at the store and inspect it before you take it home. That's probably the only way you'll get out of the seemingly endless return/exchange loop you've fallen into. And make no mistake, ATT keeps track of every phone you have swapped, regardless of whether it was their fault or yours and all of that is stored in a customer index score which may or may not prevent you from receiving 'consideration' in the future as you're definitely costing them more than the average customer due to these equipment exchanges.
I am in a similar boat, having swapped the Captivate now three times. I finally have a 'decent' one, as in the three-button combo works; the screen produces natural whites, and the GPS almost works. I'll take my chances with this as ATT will not swap for an Atrix (and judging from those forums, the build quality of that device is also questionable) and it seems the Inspire has similar teething issues. Not to mention the battery life/battery door/other annoyances that would just supplant the current ones with the Captivate.

(btw, see this post for an issue I'm sure neither of us would be too happy to encounter on our nice "new" refurb'd Inspires...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1032783 )

[Q] Black Tie Program on Broken Inspire

Ok so heres my situation... I bought the inspire from best buy about 20 days ago on an upgrade, I decided to not get their black tie plan because I did not cause any physical damage to my old captivate so I thought I would be alright to pass on it this time. Until today that is... I had the phone in my back pocket and when I sat down I must have applied some extra pressure to the front and in result the screen in mostly shattered.
So I have decided to come to you guys in search for a few solutions. I noticed that you can add the black tie on up to 30 days from the purchase of your phone but I am doubting whether or not I could convince them to put it on my phone even though the phone is already broken but I was wondering if anyone here has ever had any luck getting this plan on after the damage had been done?
I would hate to think the best buy would really be so ignorant as to make me keep a phone with a shattered screen for the remaining 2 years that is on my contract (granted it is my fault it broke), I would like to think they would help someone in my position out to keep me happy and wanting to return back to their stores.
If there is no chance for this, then what would you guys recommend I do to get this fixed for as little cost as possible.
THANKS!

I just took a captivate that wouldn't turn on and they replaced it with an inspire. So I think they're pretty good about exchanging phones. Unless I just got lucky haha
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App

The way these employees can be,especially at bestbuy,seems unlikely. But give it a shot hello y not
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App

Neathawk49 said:
Ok so heres my situation... I bought the inspire from best buy about 20 days ago on an upgrade, I decided to not get their black tie plan because I did not cause any physical damage to my old captivate so I thought I would be alright to pass on it this time. Until today that is... I had the phone in my back pocket and when I sat down I must have applied some extra pressure to the front and in result the screen in mostly shattered.
So I have decided to come to you guys in search for a few solutions. I noticed that you can add the black tie on up to 30 days from the purchase of your phone but I am doubting whether or not I could convince them to put it on my phone even though the phone is already broken but I was wondering if anyone here has ever had any luck getting this plan on after the damage had been done?
I would hate to think the best buy would really be so ignorant as to make me keep a phone with a shattered screen for the remaining 2 years that is on my contract (granted it is my fault it broke), I would like to think they would help someone in my position out to keep me happy and wanting to return back to their stores.
If there is no chance for this, then what would you guys recommend I do to get this fixed for as little cost as possible.
THANKS!
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With a phone that unquestionably has suffered physical damage, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to go that far in wanting to keep their customers happy.
Unless this "black tie" thing pretty much effectively says "sure, throw your phone off a cliff, drive over it with a semi, we want you happy, so we'll keep giving you phones," then I wouldn't get your hopes up.
But like Matt said, you got nothin' to lose and everything to gain at this point...

You never know what they will do. In December I upgraded to an Aria for $0.01, I did get the black tie coverage. There was a slight issue with the earspeaker and I took it somewhere local so I wouldn't be without my phone for a matter of weeks. Needles to say, that was a mistake. The repair place screwed it up. I took it to best buy and long story short, after sending it off for repair 4 times they have me an Inspire.
I think it is a very good thing to get to know the ppl that work in mobile and not be one of those customers they hate to see come into the store. They all knew me by my first name.lol They have me my choice of phones and I chose the Inspire and have never looked back!
BB its usually quite eager to please the customer, they know if you are happy with their mobile dept. you may buy your next tv there also.
Sent from my stock HTC Inspire 4G

Perseids said:
You never know what they will do. In December I upgraded to an Aria for $0.01, I did get the black tie coverage. There was a slight issue with the earspeaker and I took it somewhere local so I wouldn't be without my phone for a matter of weeks. Needles to say, that was a mistake. The repair place screwed it up. I took it to best buy and long story short, after sending it off for repair 4 times they have me an Inspire.
I think it is a very good thing to get to know the ppl that work in mobile and not be one of those customers they hate to see come into the store. They all knew me by my first name.lol They have me my choice of phones and I chose the Inspire and have never looked back!
BB its usually quite eager to please the customer, they know if you are happy with their mobile dept. you may buy your next tv there also.
Sent from my stock HTC Inspire 4G
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Well, there's a teeny tiny bit of difference between a bad ear speaker and a "mostly shattered" screen, but, who knows...

brick it ..... That is the only solution O.O. I remember while back best buy told me if I bought their protection plan, I could walk out side drive my car over my phone bring it back in and get a new one/ fixed, never tested it though.

Obviously don't buy the Black Tie plan and then immediately whip the phone out of your pocket.... If it was me, I'd take the receipt in and say that I decided to go with the black tie plan after all. Then I'd take it in the next day, or the day after that. It might still look suspicious, but not as.

I took the black tie protection for my laptop and TV. Laptop got its hdd replaced twice, without a question. He opened it, took the old one out, put in the new one, and gave the old one back to me.
In my opinion, its worth the trouble/hassle for 3 years.

Thanks for your help and suggestions guys, I will hopefully go up there tomorrow and basiclly beg thats what I get for not adding it on when I got the phone, just my luck. Btw, I wasnt trying to say that they owed it to anyone to replace it, I was just saying would be a kind gesture to someone,who messed up. All they would have to do is change the screen then sell it refurbished for about 50dollars less than a new one.
Also, why do they allow you to add the black tie within the first 30 days but your excluded if you have already broken it then your not allowed to have it anymore. Just my thoughts on it, please pardon my ramblings..
Thanks again for taking the time to respond though!

mudknot2005 said:
brick it ..... That is the only solution O.O. I remember while back best buy told me if I bought their protection plan, I could walk out side drive my car over my phone bring it back in and get a new one/ fixed, never tested it though.
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Well that's actually encouraging for the op, then. Unless of course they were exaggerating for purposes of selling the program.
I guess the only thing that would concern me is the amount of time the op takes between signing up for the program, and "cashing" in on it, so to speak.
I also don't know if they would require physical inspection of the phone when signing up, if done after the initial sale, when of course the brand new phone is there in front of them...

Just a quick update, I took it in today and they were very kind and helping and because I had the protection plan on my old phone they said they could add it back and and say that the person who sold me the new phone had forgotten to transfer the plan to the new phone.
They told me to wait 2-3 before I bring it back in for repairs because they are usually not allowed to do this to an already broken phone but the manager gave the approval.
Just thought that I would poke back so anyone in this situation in the future will have a bit of hope. And that this is another reason why I continue to get my phones at best buy... great customer service (most of the time) and a protection plan that is too good to pass up.

Neathawk49 said:
Just a quick update, I took it in today and they were very kind and helping and because I had the protection plan on my old phone they said they could add it back and and say that the person who sold me the new phone had forgotten to transfer the plan to the new phone.
They told me to wait 2-3 before I bring it back in for repairs because they are usually not allowed to do this to an already broken phone but the manager gave the approval.
Just thought that I would poke back so anyone in this situation in the future will have a bit of hope. And that this is another reason why I continue to get my phones at best buy... great customer service (most of the time) and a protection plan that is too good to pass up.
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Congrats. Great news for you.
Try not to shatter the screen on the next one, will ya?
And thanks for posting back. It's always good to hear how these things play out.

Put it this way its like buying a car with out "protection" and just that one day after the 30 days you run into a wall.. Take the car back and say hey I would like to get the protection plan. 99.99% they will ask let me see the car. Just as in example. Its a business. But I have the Black tie and the buy back on my phone because just in case I do drop it its cover, I had it on my last phone they sent it out for a repair go it back in like a week brand new could not even tell. Rather then going through att paying 5$s on it if it get stolen and having to pay a delectable. Heck I even got water on my phone and it was covered. So its worth it to me. On the phones think about its your MOBILE phone you have it on you all the time rather it be in your pocket in case or in case on a belt clip you always have that chance of missing your pocket and your phone slips. and BOOM broken screen. And then your like AHH!! FML! lol

I would like to post one last time just to say Fallout 3/New Vegas FTW (i know off topic but had to give a shout out to a fellow vault dweller!)

Neathawk49 said:
I would like to post one last time just to say Fallout 3/New Vegas FTW (i know off topic but had to give a shout out to a fellow vault dweller!)
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Hell yeah man Im thanking you for just that my friend.. FTW man! PC/Console
sorry of topic I think Ill start a game thread about something like this if its not already start.. thanks your way

I work at Best Buy. The plan is accidental coverage. I walked into a freaking lazy river at Six Flags with my old iPhone and it was replaced rapidly.

tribestros said:
I work at Best Buy. The plan is accidental coverage. I walked into a freaking lazy river at Six Flags with my old iPhone and it was replaced rapidly.
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I dont know about rapidly, but they have always been good about replacing my damaged phones. I went through 2 captivates (both took a swim) and they replaced them both, but the process took over 2 weeks. And on my last captivate they let me switch to the Inspire since the Captivate was out of stock.

Here is my update, I took it in a few days after I got the plan added and the guy who helped was very nice. They said that they were doing to do a rapid exchange (still not quite sure what that means but I think it is something along the lines of receiving a refurbished phone) and that they would get my "new" phone in within the next few days which is better than the 27 days I waited to receive my Captivate from being fixed a while back.
What sucks is that I am using my miserably slow iphone 3g until I get the new phone in.
One last question, if I am on the best buy reward zone silver level, does the extended 45 day return policy apply to cell phones? And if so, would I be able to exchange the refurbished inspire for the infuse and pay the difference even though they would have technically given me a refurbished phone?
Thanks!

How long did it take LG to repair/replace your phone?

For those who sent your phone to LG directly (Stellar Wireless) for a repair/replace, how long did it take them to get a phone back to you?

andrewNY said:
For those who sent your phone to LG directly (Stellar Wireless) for a repair/replace, how long did it take them to get a phone back to you?
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It took me about a week for them to repair it once they received it. I sent from NY to Texas Priority US Mail on Monday. They received by Wednesday. They fixed it by the following Wednesday and i received it back by that Saturday three days later. They are pretty speedy.
One thing I would stress though is that you do not want a refurbished phone. I have read somewhere on the internet that if LG sends you a refurbished phone that you cannot update it to Gingerbread for some reason. I cannot confirm that this is true but that's what I've heard.
I am kind of pissed off at them my self. They did send my original phone back to me but they said if worse case they can not fix it, they will send a refurbished one. I told them F no. I paid full price with tax $600 and I expect either my phone or a brand new one if the repair can't be made. I would have purchased a refurb off ebay for half that. They claim that refurb is just as good. I say bullshyt. A refurb is someone else's probem that they finally fixed but couldn't fix at the time of that persons mail in. And besides, if a refurb was the same, then LG or the Tmobile store that I have originally purchased the phone from would have given me a brand new one on the spot. Suck it. Don't accept a refurb. They did not budge though. They said repair or refurb. Good Luck with LG Scum. They did fix the restarting issue, but when I got it back I have a GPS Lock on issue.

Thanks! I sent my phone by Priority Mail last Monday and they got it Wednesday, so I guess I'm looking at getting it back by next weekend.

I sent mine to them on a Thursday they got it that Friday (one state away). Just got it back today (Thursday. There turn around time seemed very quick to me. It has the latest version and baseband on it. It however is not the phone I sent them.

I sent mine off July 22 via FedEx and just got it back today. Oddly enough, the repair ticket enclosed with my phone said they replaced the touch screen and the reason for the repair was a faulty touch button. The actual reason was because the LG Tool erased my baseband after it said I had a successful update so I couldn't use the T-Mo network, only wireless.
Not sure where the faulty Touch button information came from, but I guess it's good I got a new touchscreen if something showed up during their "quality" check. I checked the IMEI and Serial Numbers, and they match my original box, so it's the same phone repaired, not a refurb swap.
It seems to be working ok so far, so I'll know for sure in a few days.

LG employee here- Refurb is kind of a misleading term. I deal directly with Stellar and providing them parts, and when they say refurb, it might as well be a new phone. I mean, they replace a lot of stuff and run it through a gang of tests. Do things slip through the cracks? Absolutely. But, in all honesty, by the time they get done with refurbishing a phone, it is just as good as a new phone. Now, if you go through some further removed 3rd party refurb centers, you will see issues, but Stellar is in the same building as us, so we keep a pretty tight watch over their work.

affenzeit said:
LG employee here- Refurb is kind of a misleading term. I deal directly with Stellar and providing them parts, and when they say refurb, it might as well be a new phone. I mean, they replace a lot of stuff and run it through a gang of tests. Do things slip through the cracks? Absolutely. But, in all honesty, by the time they get done with refurbishing a phone, it is just as good as a new phone. Now, if you go through some further removed 3rd party refurb centers, you will see issues, but Stellar is in the same building as us, so we keep a pretty tight watch over their work.
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I was fortunate enough to get mine fixed by the Stellar folks, and what great work they did. I thought I had a pretty decent phone before the fix, but now it is pure fantastic. So far no unexplained reboots or other oddities and I have really been putting it through its paces.
Please pass along my thanks to the "stellar" Stellar Wireless Technology techs.

octoplus is a nice solve tool for LG fault
Recently, i purchased an new Octoplus from china ,it is a nice experience, fast shipping and especially technical support, and i know they own a shop in amazon, as for the web, i should obey their's rule....

Replacement phone question.

I've had my shift since feb. Rooted since day one.
Phone works, keyboard works, speakers work, everything works. Battery seems to drain faster, but hell, its a year old and gets used extensively.
I have the $8 insurance thing through them since day one. Never once used it.
My phone has been dropped more times than a $10 crack whore. Dented, scratched, chipped, etc. But as I said, all works.
Do you guys think sprint would replace it with a new phone under the insurance plan? Has anyone done this? Does it have to be broken to be replaced? Does the deductable apply? Should I try to replace it in a sprint store, radio shack, or does it have to be done via phone/snailmail?
Sent from my PG06100 using xda premium

If the phone is still in good working order, cosmetic damage will not get you a replacement. Unless that damage is to the screen ( cracked screen ) . If your screen is just scratched they will not do it. As for a good place to try and possibly get a replacement. I would try the Sprint Authorized Repair CenterIt's where when I've had an issue with my phone It's been resolved every time. But experiences vary a lot from what I've heard.

Or if you really want a new phone just throw it on the floor till it does break and say someone tried stealing it and it fell in the middle of the street while a car ran over it

Find a friend at a sprint store and have them send you a REPLACEMENT. ASURION IS A LAST RESORT.

Thanks guys. I don't know if there's a repair center around here, but I'll check.
As far as the "accident", I've considered many options. Such as a drop in the potty during #2... and bringing it to the store in a bag with poo attached. Bet I wouldn't even have to unroot!!!
I will probably try the replacement path first. The salesman I used was a straight up guy, or seemed to be. I may take a ride up to huntsville this weekend and see if he still works there. Hopefully.
I guess I'm foolish for not knowing, but the insurance that comes from a true sprint store, is that assurion? I thought it was something they handled directly. I guess the confusion comes from different posts I've seen here. Didn't one of you guys break hinges a while back and get a new phone? What was your situation as far as sprint, insurance, etc.?
Sent from my PG06100 using xda premium

Well the cofusion usually comes from Sprint spliting up what they do " in house " , vs what they call an " insurance claim ". Although from my understanding if you do not have T.E.P. , then you cannot make an insurance claim. They do have guide lines, but I've seen different stores interperate them differently. The biggest thing IMO is that if they do not resolve the problem in house ( at the repair center / store ) then they try and make it an insurance claim. You then have to contact Insurian, that realy sucks. Because then you most times end up paying the deductable, which is now $100 .

my earpiece went out last saturday. i brought it to a repair center and they kept it for a few hours. They told me they couldn't fix it, so they ordered me a new one, but it was on backorder and didn't know when it will be in. Been calling everday and a no go.

jsp254 said:
I've had my shift since feb. Rooted since day one.
Phone works, keyboard works, speakers work, everything works. Battery seems to drain faster, but hell, its a year old and gets used extensively.
I have the $8 insurance thing through them since day one. Never once used it.
My phone has been dropped more times than a $10 crack whore. Dented, scratched, chipped, etc. But as I said, all works.
Do you guys think sprint would replace it with a new phone under the insurance plan? Has anyone done this? Does it have to be broken to be replaced? Does the deductable apply? Should I try to replace it in a sprint store, radio shack, or does it have to be done via phone/snailmail?
Sent from my PG06100 using xda premium
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updated reply from me: DO NOT REPLACE YOUR ORIGINAL PHONE IF THE ONLY PROBLEM IS COSMETIC DAMAGE.
I have swapped 3 Evo Shifts already. I speak from experience. I actually sent the last replacement back because the microphone did not work properly.

[Q] How do I go about getting a WORKING phone from t-mo?

I purchased the G2X about 4 months ago and it's been nothing but a nightmare. I've been with t-mobile for 5 + years now and I've never had a bad experience up until now.
The initial handset worked fine but then the wi-fi stopped working. I tried EVERYTHING. I sent it back, paid the $20 fee and got a new one a week later. That phone started messing up as well. It started with random reboots (even after factory resets to stock) along with it freezing overnight (on stock rom as well). Now, the funny thing is right before I go to send it back I spill a TINY amount of water on the back of the phone. Out of habit I immediately pull the battery out... What happens next? The small droplets of water on the battery slide down RIGHT ON TOP OF THE WATER SICKER! /facepalm. I got to eat a hefty fee for that.
ANYWAYS, back on track, I get a new one (my third and current phone) and it does the SAME thing again. Freezing overnight, overheating, wifi is sketchy. I OC'd it to 1.2 GHZ and it runs fine and then stops working. Regardless if I fried it the damn thing wasn't working to begin with.
T-mo is offering to send me yet another handset (and another $20 warranty fee im assuming) but I don't want another one of these ****ty phones from them! Not if they keep failing on me. I've expressed this each time and each rep won't listen to me (or maybe they can't understand my English since they're all from India). Is there anything I can do? Or do I just keep going through this process. I hate this phone. Hate.
Has anyone else been having problems with tmobile? I remember loving their service back in the day... Sigh.

So you've obviously had/have root are using custom roms/kernels mixing and matching things around? Some of these are lemons that's without a doubt. I have no issues but you might just want to ask to be transferred to a manager or supervisor, get the fee waived or try and get a different phone replaced.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium

Keep pressing them. I raised holy hell with them and they replaced mine several times. I literally went through about eight or nine. (But I never waited longer than two weeks though.) I lost count. Out of those, I got two good ones. Problem free they were. Both of which I dropped.....now I have another crappy one. sigh.
But there really are good ones. People here are more than happy to tell you all about theirs LOL. Maybe you'll get lucky.
If you don't want another, maybe you can try for a replacement and you'll luck out with a NEW unopened one. This could be sold unopened and the proceeds used to get a Sensation or Galaxy Nexus.
But there really are some good ones out there. My estimate is 25% are good. Maybe a higher percentage of the newer ones? But the problems you describe are classic.....been there done that.
consumerist.com is a good source for executive email addresses............the squeeky wheel gets greased.

Thank you so much for that link. I'll go ahead and start e-mailing trying to get this resolved. I'm so sick and tired of sending phones back.

When the water got on the Water Sticker and you had to eat it and buy a phone, why did you by a G2x instead of something else at that time?

GTWalling said:
When the water got on the Water Sticker and you had to eat it and buy a phone, why did you by a G2x instead of something else at that time?
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Because it was still under warranty and -ANY- damage that voids that will only cause them to charge you the $75 fee (+ tax). That was cheaper than buying my own parts to fix the screen or purchasing a new phone. They sent me a refurb one that is currently stuck in a bootloop =/

I have been through this before if you don't want the phone tell them to switch you into something that is the same in performance. They have to do it. After you have returned a phone more then 2times and don't let them tell you that you can't because its all bull go up the food chain if you have to
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium

You can also threaten to cancel your service and they will transfer you to customer retention department and they can do alot more than the ordinary cs rep with customer retention you should get some results