Related
I been mirroring things.
We have fission, etc- everything to SBF (Saved my ass, laptop broke- had to use someone else's- I enjoy my fast as hell easy to use repository )
So anyways then I read about new full SBF isn't released yet because of it's motorola proprietary code?
In that case I'll probably start a droid repo only on servers in a country without DMCA laws
Let me know- and if some guys want to set up and have access to publish files on this node I'll give certain people access. I don't have a PC setup yet but you can email me at chris aaaaat evilpuma.com
I've donated dozens of terabytes over the years, don't thank me but assist me in helping others. Tis was a pain in the arse to even get the SBF files the first time- glad I mirrored it.
(Sidenote since I'm sure devs only wont read: I don't want to host copyrighted apk's and what not. Not because I can't but because it's rude to the nice people who created that software. Get those apk's that cost $$$ from google and save them on your SD card- never need to DL again )
cmanns said:
I been mirroring things.
We have fission, etc- everything to SBF (Saved my ass, laptop broke- had to use someone else's- I enjoy my fast as hell easy to use repository )
So anyways then I read about new full SBF isn't released yet because of it's motorola proprietary code?
In that case I'll probably start a droid repo only on servers in a country without DMCA laws
Let me know- and if some guys want to set up and have access to publish files on this node I'll give certain people access. I don't have a PC setup yet but you can email me at chris aaaaat evilpuma.com
I've donated dozens of terabytes over the years, don't thank me but assist me in helping others. Tis was a pain in the arse to even get the SBF files the first time- glad I mirrored it.
(Sidenote since I'm sure devs only wont read: I don't want to host copyrighted apk's and what not. Not because I can't but because it's rude to the nice people who created that software. Get those apk's that cost $$$ from google and save them on your SD card- never need to DL again )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SBF 2.3.20 is out.
I been going forum to forum, so it's not copyrighted?
Sorry I read that it can't be released fully, so the full SBF is out?
My question is it legal to host SBF's in USA or not (& wheres the 2.3.2 at, MDW?)
thanks echo- been kinda out of the loop. Glad to see fissions hit 2.x!
cmanns said:
I been going forum to forum, so it's not copyrighted?
Sorry I read that it can't be released fully, so the full SBF is out?
My question is it legal to host SBF's in USA or not (& wheres the 2.3.2 at, MDW?)
thanks echo- been kinda out of the loop. Glad to see fissions hit 2.x!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes MDW. They have it linked to a megaupload. Check your pm.
Ah yes thats where I was reading bout it needing permission to be released haha
It technically is copyrighted and does contain proprietary code. However, the internet is flooded with SBF/SHX files from motorola as well as their RSDLite, RSD General, and other softwares, and I never once heard of anyone or any site getting a take down for having or posting them. Motorola generally plays nicely with the modding community (aside from locking down their phones).
Now, LG on the other hand...
bladearronwey said:
It technically is copyrighted and does contain proprietary code. However, the internet is flooded with SBF/SHX files from motorola as well as their RSDLite, RSD General, and other softwares, and I never once heard of anyone or any site getting a take down for having or posting them. Motorola generally plays nicely with the modding community (aside from locking down their phones).
Now, LG on the other hand...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
They are very serious about protecting their IP and doing everything possible to make all of what has been done so far on DX and D2 useless or of very limited value going forward. That is why they are including a new bootloader with every release now to prevent going back to prior versions.
Blanket statements about their willingness to allow such things to be posted are not valid unfortunately.
cellzealot said:
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
They are very serious about protecting their IP and doing everything possible to make all of what has been done so far on DX and D2 useless or of very limited value going forward. That is why they are including a new bootloader with every release now to prevent going back to prior versions.
Blanket statements about their willingness to allow such things to be posted are not valid unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Historically, it's never been motorola against the modding community. If we're gunna point fingers at those responsible for the current closed model push, I think we need to start with the carriers...
bladearronwey said:
Historically, it's never been motorola against the modding community. If we're gunna point fingers at those responsible for the current closed model push, I think we need to start with the carriers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
History unfortunately does not reflect the current situation.
I have always felt that there was tacit support from inside Motorola for the modding and hacking community. I don't know if that was actually the case or if it was simply lax security and apathy, but it all changed when Sanjay Jha took over a saved Moto from oblivion. He is a former Qualcomm exec and is by nature extremely security conscious and this new push for control and lockdowns of the new phones is entirely his initiative and not coming from VZW at all.
He is committed to this new regime and sees protection of Moto's IP as key to the future success of the company. They are trying to establish themselves with a secure platform for enterprise use and wrestle that market away from RIM. The coming move to LTE will only solidify this position and all of these new methods they are using are just a prelude to even more ironclad security measures for those devices.
There is a lot more to it than I have touched on here but I have it on very good authority that this is how it's going to be for the foreseeable future.
We will have our hands full trying to keep up I am sure...
cellzealot said:
History unfortunately does not reflect the current situation.
I have always felt that there was tacit support from inside Motorola for the modding and hacking community. I don't know if that was actually the case or if it was simply lax security and apathy, but it all changed when Sanjay Jha took over a saved Moto from oblivion. He is a former Qualcomm exec and is by nature extremely security conscious and this new push for control and lockdowns of the new phones is entirely his initiative and not coming from VZW at all.
He is committed to this new regime and sees protection of Moto's IP as key to the future success of the company. They are trying to establish themselves with a secure platform for enterprise use and wrestle that market away from RIM. The coming move to LTE will only solidify this position and all of these new methods they are using are just a prelude to even more ironclad security measures for those devices.
There is a lot more to it than I have touched on here but I have it on very good authority that this is how it's going to be for the foreseeable future.
We will have our hands full trying to keep up I am sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems consistent from what I've read and heard as well.
Really, all you have to do is read the lawsuits over patents and positioning of IP BS - "we made this and you didn't" vs "well we made this and you can't use it" - to see that these companies have all mapped /flex to their spacebar.
cellzealot said:
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
</snip>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So generally speaking it'd be good to start a mirror in this 3rd world country server location for SBF's and such?
Considering I can host windows iso's publicly... I don't know what I couldn't host there LOL
I've not got a C&D from my mirror of 2.2.2? sbf but I havent pushed that file around much.
Are they getting a C&D for posting link or hosting? I dislike that sorta thing, I don't mind putting up a lil battle but I'm def going to host these files non-usa then.
I posted this thread so whoever has access that wants me to setup a safe repo I can do so and give them/group access
Just saw a series of tweets from @P3Droid saying they're looking for a soft-bricked D2G or Pro to test SBF files on. He said he's in the Phoenix area so do yourself and everyone else a favor if you've got a phone to send him and get that sucker fixed!
Edit: At 11:30 p.m. EST on 1/2/2011, @P3Droid tweeted that they will be publicly releasing the SBF files for both the D2G and Pro within the next 12 hours. I'll post a link to their posting once it's up. Note that they caution you to grab the stuff ASAP as it will likely be taken down by Moto via C&D (not that there won't be plenty of mirrors after that)
Edit2: It looks like links are up on Team Black Hat's forum. I assume since this is now for free there is no issue linking to their forum but if anyone better versed than I in the rules disagrees, please say so and I'll take the link down.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...id-2-global-sbf-file-2-4-29-full-rsdlite.html
Again, thanks to Team Black Hat for the great work they do and for the decision to rapidly release this SBF publicly. Hopefully the short window between it being kept exclusive to their app and the public release will not deter folks from supporting the cause.
bout time. This will really get the modding community going for the global finally. Hear that all they need to do now is test it and they'll be set.
Yes this is very good news.
See my post down further as to see why I say this isn't good news.
Hint: This smells like a scam.
i hope that this is true, then we could start seeing a lot more modds dfor the d2g
Of course, 2 days after i send my brick in to verizon. good news tho
If you check the twitter account it says that the phone must be mailed just like the band unlock guy... I smell a scam and I for one do not recommend sending any phones by mail to anyone you don't know. You're just asking to have your phone stolen.
I wouldn't trust anyone who says that you must mail the phone to them or that you must meet them in person. If they really want to be trust worthy they will just give you the link to the file straight up. If they needed testers then they can setup a private channel on irc or something.
This is not a scam.
All of the members of TBH have NS(Non Secured) flash dev phones because that is what we personally chose to spend our own money on.
We also have consumer hardware test phones for other models but not the D2G or Pro.
We cannot test the SBF files we got recently on our phones and cannot afford to purchase these models at full retail to test the files.
We are well established in the community and have provided virtually all of the leaked SBF files for all of the Droid devices in existence.
Our record of community service stands for itself and has no comparable parallel.
Everybody wants these files and we want to release them so users who have soft bricked can recover and everyone can breathe a little easier modding these phones.
I would ask anyone who questions our motives how much of their own money they have spent on providing the community with such valuable resources as these files?
Anybody?
I thought so...
cellzealot said:
This is not a scam.
All of the members of TBH have NS(Non Secured) flash dev phones because that is what we personally chose to spend our own money on.
We also have consumer hardware test phones for other models but not the D2G or Pro.
We cannot test the SBF files we got recently on our phones and cannot afford to purchase these models at full retail to test the files.
We are well established in the community and have provided virtually all of the leaked SBF files for all of the Droid devices in existence.
Our record of community service stands for itself and has no comparable parallel.
Everybody wants these files and we want to release them so users who have soft bricked can recover and everyone can breathe a little easier modding these phones.
I would ask anyone who questions our motives how much of their own money they have spent on providing the community with such valuable resources as these files?
Anybody?
I thought so...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beautiful post and well said!
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App
cellzealot said:
This is not a scam.
All of the members of TBH have NS(Non Secured) flash dev phones because that is what we personally chose to spend our own money on.
We also have consumer hardware test phones for other models but not the D2G or Pro.
We cannot test the SBF files we got recently on our phones and cannot afford to purchase these models at full retail to test the files.
We are well established in the community and have provided virtually all of the leaked SBF files for all of the Droid devices in existence.
Our record of community service stands for itself and has no comparable parallel.
Everybody wants these files and we want to release them so users who have soft bricked can recover and everyone can breathe a little easier modding these phones.
I would ask anyone who questions our motives how much of their own money they have spent on providing the community with such valuable resources as these files?
Anybody?
I thought so...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do apologize as I'm new to having a Motorola device and thus do not know all of the developers yet for this brand of hardware. I recently came over from an HTC phone which has the Unrevoked team behind it for rooting purposes and so forth.
I only claimed that this seemed like a scam as I'm cautious about these short of things and your request asking for phones to be mailed seems very much so a tail tell sign of a scam. Again I apologize if this is your preferred operating procedure.
If I had better information about your group/organization then I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If I had a soft bricked phone and had this information before hand I would have been more willing to help out. Though I personally still do not want to ship any phone via the mail. I would prefer an in person meeting where this test could then be conducted.
I too understand these phones are not cheap and it's not easy for developers to obtain consumer devices for testing purposes. Since these phones cost so much is why I'm cautious when it comes to someone asking for a phone to be mailed in.
I think the best way to test whether its an sbf or not is to make a new thread with links to it and a disclaimer, if it works, hey, that's awesome, if it doesnt, who cares, the phones its being tested on are already softbricked anyhow.
My question is, what if it is the sbf? Besides fixing softbricked phones, what more can be done with it?
Sent from my WICKED FAST Droid 2 Global with fission using XDA app
boomertwo said:
I do apologize as I'm new to having a Motorola device and thus do not know all of the developers yet for this brand of hardware. I recently came over from an HTC phone which has the Unrevoked team behind it for rooting purposes and so forth.
I only claimed that this seemed like a scam as I'm cautious about these short of things and your request asking for phones to be mailed seems very much so a tail tell sign of a scam. Again I apologize if this is your preferred operating procedure.
If I had better information about your group/organization then I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If I had a soft bricked phone and had this information before hand I would have been more willing to help out. Though I personally still do not want to ship any phone via the mail. I would prefer an in person meeting where this test could then be conducted.
I too understand these phones are not cheap and it's not easy for developers to obtain consumer devices for testing purposes. Since these phones cost so much is why I'm cautious when it comes to someone asking for a phone to be mailed in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rusty815 said:
I think the best way to test whether its an sbf or not is to make a new thread with links to it and a disclaimer, if it works, hey, that's awesome, if it doesnt, who cares, the phones its being tested on are already softbricked anyhow.
My question is, what if it is the sbf? Besides fixing softbricked phones, what more can be done with it?
Sent from my WICKED FAST Droid 2 Global with fission using XDA app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We will not release anything until we have had a chance to thoroughly test it for ourselves, not all things we get are worth releasing.
To be honest this thread started good but really went silly rather quickly. Neither Cell nor myself need to defend the work we have done for the community and to state that we are scamming is asinine. As Cell stated we have lots of devices in many different flavors, they are not consumer phones therefore we can not always test things that we would like to.
I'm sure you know what TBH does and what we have done, if not you can most likely find 1 or 2 posts about us online somewhere. This is not a question of us not knowing what the files are, we know what we have in hand therefore that is not the question being asked. The request is for a consumer device to test this on.
So if you know someone with a phone that is inoperable have them contact us, so we can help them out and in return help out the entire community.
P3Droid
TBH
Has anyone offered to send a phone to you yet? Where are you located?
No, I went and bought a new D2G from VZW tonight so I can manage this myself.
Once testing is complete we will decide when and how to release the SBF file.
You're welcome...
sorry if I came off as a bit "silly" i do know about tbh and their contributions to the droid community. i was just suggesting an alternative way of testing this, but i understand your concern about releasing it publicly, it may cause more harm than good.
while im here, might i ask if the 3g mobile hotspot patch can be made for the d2g, seeing as how you have a d2g now? ive been waiting a while hoping that someone can make the patch for the d2g.
cellzealot said:
No, I went and bought a new D2G from VZW tonight so I can manage this myself.
Once testing is complete we will decide when and how to release the SBF file.
You're welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys, sorry for the harassment/doubters. Unfortunately, the couple of posters who got on here were too lazy to follow the links on your twitter account to the website where it can be clearly seen just how crazy active you guys are on the Android scene and how reasonable you are with these types of requests.
Thanks so much for all the work you do to make Android phones do what they're supposed to do (stupid carriers with their stupidity). You guys do great work and I, for one, appreciate it a lot! Looking forward to the release
cellzealot said:
No, I went and bought a new D2G from VZW tonight so I can manage this myself.
Once testing is complete we will decide when and how to release the SBF file.
You're welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is very generous from your side!
I don't know about others, but I think we should establish a fund or something like that to cover such expenses for our development teams. I am totally willing to shell some money for having the peace of mind of having the SBF file for my D2G laying around ready shall the need arise.
Right now (without SBF) I am reluctant of touching anything on my phone due to lack of safe way out. I am not in the States and exchanging the phone will cost me considerable amount of money and efforts.
Not sure if I should start a new thread for this as cellzealot already bought the phone, but I if this gets somehow organized, I am in with $20 to offset the expense. $20 is much less than what I would have to pay to ship the phone anywhere for whatever reason.
cellzealot, does your team have a paypal or something we can use for the purpose?
I have a Droid2Global that boots but is stuck at the stupid Backup Manager screen and doesn't allow me to go anywhere else. If you want, I'm more than happy to try the SBF out on that D2G if you send me the SBF. PM me if you want me to try it.
@leobg: Thanks for the offer of support.
We really don't care for the practice of plastering donate buttons all over in every forum where we post...so we don't do it.
The best way to support TeamBlackHat and the continued availability of these files and our other development projects is to purchase our app in the market for the extremely reasonable sum of $2.00 US. It is just a downloader that provides our users with access to all of the various leaks and other files. There is a filter that only presents content for the specific connected device.
There is also a donate button at the top of the screen for further support if you are feeling generous, thanks. The files are made available via the app exclusively for some period and then posted publicly for everyone later on MyDroidWorld. http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/forum.php
That is our way of providing a perk for our supporters and also assuring that all content is made available to the entire community.
This also prevents us from being accused of "selling leaks", despite the fact that those making such accusations have no clue whatsoever how these files are acquired or at what cost.
This is what we do and have been doing for most of the past year or so since the advent of Motorola Android phones with the original Droid.
There is no profit in this at all...trust me...it's just a way for us to absorb some of the cost of our passion for these devices and serve a unique and critical function to meet need for these kinds of files.
Nobody else has consistently proven to have access to these files except us and we have released every flash file for every Motorola Droid device in existence with the exception of two that RootzWiki released.
We don't do a lot of self promotion and prancing around on forums attracting attention to ourselves, that's not our way.
Thanks again for your interest and support!
Just sent you a donation for your work on the droid 2 global sbf. Your work is much appreciated!
THANK YOU!
-Strandedhuman
I have just purchased the TBH app from market. Plan to use the donate link there very soon. I really appreciate your efforts guys!
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL
http://www.wix.com/palmercurling/project-bootloader-freedom
seems that kexec methods works...and probably today or tomorrow source code will be released....
if that's true, then it'll be good news
that will make Dexter porting of 2.2 even easier
Hm... Maybe if this work.. Dexer can try with 2.3
grigorbg said:
Hm... Maybe if this work.. Dexer can try with 2.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dexter already explain why 2.3 is not going to work
He didn't say it's not gonna work, he say it MIGHT not work but he'll test it. That's what he said.
Vistaus said:
He didn't say it's not gonna work, he say it MIGHT not work but he'll test it. That's what he said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, he said that 2.3 may need newer kernel, not an 2.6.29 that works on xt720, cause of bootloader...
So, i hope that will helps!
That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. He said MAY need a newer kernel, but it's not clear yet 'cause he doesn't have the XT720 yet nor 2.3, so maybe it'll work.
And btw, I dunno if you guys actually read the first post in this thread but if the bootloader is cracked in some way, then it doesn't matter anymore 'cause we can flash any custom kernel then.
Sure, it's only was message about why Dexter says it's not going to work.
People from droid-developers.org also already tried much attemps... with kexec also...
For now.. no success =(
Motorola just marked the request to unlock the Droid X bootloader as "Implemented" here!!!:
http://getsatisfaction.com/motorola/topics/please_unlock_the_droid_x_bootloader
This may be related to:
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/01/1...bootloaders-looks-to-partner-with-developers/
which links to a Facebook response by Motorola that reads:
Motorola - We apologize for the feedback we provided regarding our bootloader policy. The response does not reflect the views of Motorola.
We are working closely with our partners to offer a bootloader solution that will enable developers to use our devices as a development platform while still protecting our users’ interests. More detailed information will follow as we get closer to availability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm incredulous. I really don't want to get my hopes up. We need a "support group" and seven step program.
Edit: More coverage of the incident
http://androinica.com/2011/01/19/motorola-unsure-of-its-own-bootloader-policy/
http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/01/20...m-users-to-go-away-then-begs-for-forgiveness/
why is the bootloader so difficult to crack?
Why is the bootloader so difficult to crack?
c_urbanek said:
Why is the bootloader so difficult to crack?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The short answer is that the security in the bootloader is based on very high quality mathematics.
Basically it's what's called a NP-complete problem (I think, I'm an armchair cryptographer only). Think of this this way, we have some sort of algorithm (equations are a kind of algorithm):
45 * x + 32 = 76
Now, there are two ways to find values of x that satisfy this equation. The way we are taught in school is to use the rules of arithmetic to convert the algorithm into a simpler algorithm that yields an expression we can evaluate directly. That's pretty fast.
Now assume you didn't learn how to do that and that nobody in the world knows how to do it. The other way to solve it is to try plugging in values of x on the left-hand side until you find a value that when evaluated gives 76. That way could take a very long time. In fact, you can calculate how long you expect it will take based on how long it takes to test a single value and the expected number of values you'll have to test. (On computers, numbers can be very large, but they can't be infinite)
Fundamentally, this gets to a very important unanswered question in computer science and mathematics called "P ?= NP" which essentially asks: can every possible algorithm be simplified somehow to be solved faster than plugging numbers (over simplified a bit) or are there some algorithms that can only be solved by trying different values until one works. Digitial cryptography is based on finding algorithms that can't be solved easily with current knowledge (the research question is can you find an algorithm and prove that it can never be simplified--again oversimplified a bit).
The bootloader uses one of these algorithms (in the sense that publicly nobody knows anybody that can simplify it--insert NSA conspiracy theories). I think I read somewhere that based on the keysize and using the best algorithms available to search the keyspace, the expected amount of time required to crack the key using all of the available computing power in the world is something like 15-30 years. There was the distributed cracking effort, but they were using very inefficient algorithms that supposedly would take at least over 1000 years (some people said it would take longer than the life of the universe). Some have said that hardware that should be available in five years should be able to break it in five years or something like that. I'm probably remembering the details wrong, but in any case it's not good news.
So, that leaves us with essentially five ways to crack the bootloader:
(1) Look for the key with the expectation to never find in the lifetime of the device,
(2) Find a bug in the implementation of the the bootloader itself (could be either a hardware or software bug),
(3) physically modify the phone to disable the check,
(4) find an efficient attack on the algorithm (i.e. prove this particular encryption isn't one of the mythical unsolvable ones),
(5) convince Motorola to just give it to us.
I picked this XT720 phone over iphone as it will be better with open source community will do new tech y things I will learn and enjoy best we can ever have as in phone. Motorola did tried to diminish the impact for product with the poor upgrade support. I was thinking of selling ( as most of us did thought before Dexter the man behind the rescue operation and best of this community ) my phone. Now i must say it has much better response, satisfaction and relief. This new news has now pumped up everything that we are going to be best in this competition. I think only we have to look for is the alternative for front camera ( something like usb camera attachment or something like that.. may be silly of me I am dreaming ) and this will be best product in the line. Love you people for making my wrong decision worth. Cheers to my XT720 community.
Thanks to all who joined hand for better:
@Mio: Indeed. Btw, number 3 or 4 is already solved by booting a ROM via 2nd init. That is what ROM-bakers do on the Milestone 2 and the Defy. We could do that too.
We need a top noch developer to crack this bootloader that's it.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I'm trying to get Samsung to release the source for their ar6000.ko ethernet kernel module as well as the source they used for wpa_supplicant (which contains extensions to wpa_supplicant.) To that end, I've sent them a few messages making those requests. Here was their reply (edited)
1. about 'ar6000.ko'
: source code of atheros chip set is not GPL.
We get BSD/GPL dual license from Atheros company.
We choose BSD license, so we do not have any obligation to publish source codeof it.
2. wpa_supplicant
Wpa_supplicant is also BSD/GPL dual license. (and we also choose BSD license)
________________________________________________________________
WPA Supplicant
==============
Copyright (c) 2003-2008, Jouni Malinen and contributors
All Rights Reserved.
This program is dual-licensed under both the GPL version 2 and BSD
license. Either license may be used at your option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly, they seem to have failed to meet the conditions of the BSD licensing as well. I've sent them another message stating this:
Concerning the atheros AR6000 driver and the wpa_supplicant binary. In denying the making available source for both the ar6000 module and the wpa_supplicant binary, you state that you get both of these with dual GPL/BSD licensing and choose the BSD license. That is fine, however you failed to meet the terms of the BSD license. In particular, for both items, the BSD license states: " Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution." You have failed to state your licensing terms and this disclaimer in reference to the above stated items in either the printed documentation or the legal licensing screen embedded within the settings app on the device. As a matter of fact, you've failed to provide any licensing notice for GPL or BSD licensing for either item.
Regardless, I'm asking for these items in order to attempt to FIX BUGS that have been left in the device. It's been well documented in the forums for users of these devices that the wifi chipset drivers are causing crashes, freezes, "sleep of death" situations, etc. Samsung's support has been EXTREMELY unresponsive in attempting to resolve these issue, and I'd be willing to bet that reports of these issue aren't even getting through to your development teams.
Therefore, I once again ask that you release the source for the ar6000 module and wpa_supplicant binary that you have NOT followed the licensing terms of (regardless of which license you've chosen.) Oh, and there's no licensing string embedded in the ar6000.ko module either. modinfo ar6000.ko reveals nothing (for the ar6000.ko module on the GT-P6210 with KL1 firmware.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I don't expect for Samsung to be responsive and/or helpful. I think the best that anyone can expect is that they release an updated firmware that includes the proper licensing information.
Gary
Check and mate Sir. I despise these OEMs. You GO gary. Whatever happened to opensource? What are they so afraid of?
Anything we can do to help, let us know. Even if it means just spamming their inbox.
It's not like I buy the tablet because it has such an epic driver....
I buy it for the hardware...
When your entire OS is practically open source... not open sourcing the drivers for the wireless chip seems like shooting yourself in the foot just because you can.
Thanks garyd9 for fighting the good fight.
When companies do stuff like this for critical things, it _really_ makes me want to spend my money elsewhere.
In regards to the SOD issue, I've noticed that quite a few honeycomb tablets have this issue or something similar to it. I've only personally seen it with Samsung branded ones (10.1 and 7.0+), but have heard similar issues with asus and and acer.
Perhaps its a honeycomb issue?
Gary
give em hell!
If you'd like to help, please click the link near the top of the OP to submit the article to the XDA portal. Perhaps if this issue is shown on the front page, and enough people notice, Samsung could be convinced to "choose" GPL over BSD.
Thank you
Gary
Did you get any useful /proc/last_kmsg dumps of SoDs? Enabling wifi may only be making a difference because of the wakeups.
That said - I am completely shocked that Broadcom's drivers are open source and the ar6000 driver isn't. I've lost a lot of respect for Atheros AND for Samsung over this. I can understand if it's BSD - but seriously, what trade secrets could Samsung have in a freaking Atheros driver, and for something like this, what possible business reason could they have for witholding source for that ONE module? It's freaking stupid.
I was hoping that they'd start becoming more developer-friendly as a result of hiring Cyanogen, but they're being asshats at this point. They donated a device to Codeworkx (or someone else on Teamhacksung) to get CM7 ported, but have not given him a shred of assistance with the porting effort. Basically, trying to get "Supported by CyanogenMod" credits without ANY significant effort.
As much as I hate Sony - SE seems to be doing the best of any manufacturer in terms of supporting people doing platform-level development.
Edits:
You know, this is proving to be a clear and recurring pattern. I have never seen XDA get anything useful out of SamsungJohn for example, all he does is come over, tease us with something, and never follow up.
Over in the Captivate forums - he came in and posted that source code was out, then left without any followup - by the time he made this announcement, people had already found the source and were working with it - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=997098
He then came and teased us with the Samsung Developer Program - guess what, it provides NOTHING for developers doing platform work - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1392847 - John also didn't come and respond to any of the feedback
Prior to that there was the Samsung Developers Conference tease - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1291758 - nothing useful came out of this for anyone doing platform work. In fact, John just dropped off the face of the earth, I'm assuming that not a single person from XDA actually was brought by Samsung to the event, otherwise there would've been a followup/debrief post. Anyway, the "big announcement" was just the Galaxy Nexus release announcement. Big deal - that's a dev phone because Google forces it to be one, it's more of a Google product than a Samsung one.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=954896 (and many similar posts) - He just crossposted to a ton of forums saying something awesome was coming. Something awesome never came. The linked thread from many of his posts doesn't even exist. Actually, most of his 67 posts are just crossposting this tease - NOTHING ever came out of it.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/08/samsung-shows-affection-to-cyanogenmod-gives-its-devs-a-free-ga/ - As a PR stunt, Samsung threw a Galaxy S II over the wall to one of the CM developers. Without a doubt, Dan Hillenbrand (codeworkx) and Atin Malvaya (atinm) have not received any support from Samsung since Sammy threw a device over to them. The GSII is likely to be codeworkx's last Samsung device, he has become so frustrated with Samsung (Check his posts in the CM9 thread for I9100). Compare this to Sony Ericsson's effort here - http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/wp/2011/09/28/sony-ericsson-supports-independent-developers/ - They have given FreeXperia MASSIVE amounts of support, and it shows - http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/sony-ericsson-xperia-support
imnuts07 asked for some help regarding Droid Charge kernel source issues - https://twitter.com/#!/SamsungJohn/status/152835654303236097 - All he responded with was "how can we help" - no further response, imnuts07 didn't get anywhere until jt1134 gave him some pointers. (It turned out to be more proprietary module vermagic bull****...)
After all this, it's clear that with regards to platform developers, Samsung's intent is to do the bare minimum to meet their legal obligations with the GPL and no more. Even source code which they COULD release and have no valid reason for withholding is withheld if they are able to (such as the ar6000 module source code). I thought that the Galaxy S II was a step forward towards devices with 100% open source kernels, however it is clear that the GSII was just a fluke. I'm getting sick and tired of dealing with module vermagic headaches. I've spent at this point a few hundred hours of my spare time working on improvements to various products of theirs(maintaining kernels for three different products - Samsung Infuse, AT&T Galaxy S II, and Galaxy Player 5.0), and their consistent message back has been "go away, screw you, stop bothering us".
There may be a small bit of hope - I've been contacted by someone at samsung (perhaps due to your rant combined with my constant pestering on their open source website.) It isn't much, but the first line of collaborating is communication. They seem more interested in fixing the bugs than sharing code, but I'll take what I can get.
Oh, and the last_ksmg memory was corrupted when the one person who had adb, my kernel and root installed was able to check it. (As you know, the file won't be generated if header area for the ram console can't be found or is in bad shape.)
We'll see what happens, but I'm not going to hold my breath with the lunar new year coming up.
Take care
Gary
so how many people do we need to sue??
chrisrotolo said:
so how many people do we need to sue??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No lawsuits required. Although... that might explain the poor customer support from Samsung. Perhaps they've been afraid that Apple will sue them for patent infringement if they help a customer?
Not that I've ever had any GOOD support from Apple... mostly just clueless kids taking guesses. Even their so-called "geniuses" are mostly clueless.
In typing that, I realized that I'm probably one of the hardest people in the world to provide technical support to. When I have a question, it's only after I've exhausted the combined knowledge of myself and whatever google can provide... meaning the only good response from phone support would be "Would you like to cross-ship an exchange or wait for the repair?"
can we spook them with a (legal)letter they are in violation of the GPL/BSD agreement, and If it isnt provided in X amount of time, we will be forced to escalate?
I like to annoy people to (;
Speaking from personal experience ,when dealing (even on corporate high level) with Samsung there is nothing to gain but some weight due to stress.
They do care( up to a degree) about some customer relations and I've seen very nice, honest and helpful people there. But this is where it all ends.
The farther you go the worse it gets. Somehow they got this Apple attitude of profit and secrecy all over their structure. Apple calls themselves "innovators" to reason the secrecy, but Sammy are nowhere near. If I was to say they do act like copycat killers I risk getting called names- though they "adapt" almost everything, from design to business models. The Korean HQ has drawn quite strict regulations for the rest of the world.
We should remember that Samsung is a HUGE corporation. Android devices D&R is a tiny faction, ruled like in Middle Ages. They have the road map and they ever raise the stake every time. From my point of view, I sincerely understand those people for not jumping out with the source code. If you get paid 100k+, you don't help anyone but yourself. The decisions are not theirs. The people taking decisions don't give a rat's a55 about GNU or Linux, Minux or whatever. On top of that, there are some people that MIGHT have some influence in changing this policy ( the brown bearded, we call them) but those are the pride ridden SOBs.
You can read this from their mobile device history. They had to go into that, given the fact they build everything, from ships to home furniture. They got a share of the market because they were big and had some bright minds there. I know for a fact that, at the beginning, working @ cell phone dept was like sentenced to prison, only the undesirable but indispensable were sent there. Huh, those people left, some for Apple and some for others ( LG,Sony and Hyundai). Panasonic and Toshiba flops are some examples of how, in a degree, cultural burdens lead to a fail. HTC, a mobile phone company, depends on how much stir dev's can produce. On the other hand, Samsung can get a write-off for their mobile dept. without a blink. Bada is a perfect example. It was close to write off so they decided to make it open- see HP. They are too big to follow rules and beside being big, they hold the power few have- the power TO BEND rules, that is.
Getting any serious, development like help from Samsung is close to what ''Acts of God" are described in car insurance.
htc9420 said:
HTC, a mobile phone company, depends on how much stir dev's can produce.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are, obviously, an HTC fan or employee. Well, I have a samsung tablet, so I'm developing on a samsung tablet. At least the device was unlocked when I bought it and I didn't have to petition on facebook/twitter/etc just to be able to root it.
Unless you have something to contribute to solving a problem, please go elsewhere.
garyd9 said:
You are, obviously, an HTC fan or employee. Well, I have a samsung tablet, so I'm developing on a samsung tablet. At least the device was unlocked when I bought it and I didn't have to petition on facebook/twitter/etc just to be able to root it.
Unless you have something to contribute to solving a problem, please go elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't be so quick to judge him...
I just got the impression that the point of the post was to promote HTC while bashing everyone else.
Perhaps I spoke (typed) too soon. If so, I apologize.
No, the HTC thing was just one line, and what I perceived as some general comments on why some manufacturers (Panasonic, Toshiba) seem to have kind of flopped in the market.
There was definitive Samsung-bashing - but he's just joining with us in frustration.
Check PMs gary.
garyd9 said:
I'm trying to get Samsung to release the source for their ar6000.ko ethernet kernel module as well as the source they used for wpa_supplicant (which contains extensions to wpa_supplicant.) To that end, I've sent them a few messages making those requests. Here was their reply (edited)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Gary,
I'm the developer for a CyanogenMod port for the Samsung phone (GT-I5500). Samsung have released their source for an older version of the AR6kSDK, which I have put on github here: https://github.com/psyke83/AR6kSDK.3.0. This source is quite old, and doesn't support combo scanning, but it's newer than the ath6kl source release contained in the 2.6.35 kernel.
Last night I scoured the internet trying to find some newer source, and came across a release by Sony for one of their e-book reader products. I have uploaded the source onto github which you can check here: https://github.com/psyke83/AR6kSDK.3.1
The above git's description links to the location of the original source tarball on Sony's server, but if you prefer, just clone the git and checkout the first commit, as it's the unmodified source.
I have made some changes already to get the module to initialize properly, but at present it's not even scanning properly. Perhaps it will work better for you without modifications, especially if your device is not AR6003_REV2 (which is the revision on my phone).
chrisrotolo said:
can we spook them with a (legal)letter they are in violation of the GPL/BSD agreement, and If it isnt provided in X amount of time, we will be forced to escalate?
I like to annoy people to (;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my friend mat has done this for me as he knows his stuff. it was a very powerful letter i must say haha. just waiting for a response
gary, thanks for all your efforts man! this is my first samsung android device, have they always been this bad in witholding source?
I know its so painfully obvious, but has anyone actually tried to contact samsung to get the development resources we need? Drivers and the such.
Beyond a doubt they left this phone to sink a long time ago, but the sidekick community is die-hard and all we want is the phone we thought we were getting. And we can have that phone, with no added work by Sasung - we have the devs and the will! We only need the way.
It would not be too difficult to draft a polite but demanding business letter/ petition and have all of us send it in. Shoot, if we got the story to the XDA mods we could probably get support site-wide for "dedicated sidekick/android enthusiasts want freedom for their phone - device never allowed upgrade from froyo". You guys might see this as stretching it, but a majority of people on XDA have samsung devices and would hate to see their own development halted by the company.
Strength in numbers. Not to mention, this kind of outcry would show samsung that the sidekick (keyboard devices) are still sought after and will be fought for. Somewhere in our petition should say the resources are just to hold us over until they release the next model which will NOT get treated like the red-headed stepchild the 4G did.
You'd be surprised what a small, vocal group can get done. If anyone has any background on this type of thing, say so. if nobody else steps up I will write it tuesday-Thursday and post it for any revisions, then we can each take a copy and send it. Even a simple facebook page or cheap website would add so much to this cause.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Tsloble said:
I know its so painfully obvious, but has anyone actually tried to contact samsung to get the development resources we need? Drivers and the such.
Beyond a doubt they left this phone to sink a long time ago, but the sidekick community is die-hard and all we want is the phone we thought we were getting. And we can have that phone, with no added work by Sasung - we have the devs and the will! We only need the way.
It would not be too difficult to draft a polite but demanding business letter/ petition and have all of us send it in. Shoot, if we got the story to the XDA mods we could probably get support site-wide for "dedicated sidekick/android enthusiasts want freedom for their phone - device never allowed upgrade from froyo". You guys might see this as stretching it, but a majority of people on XDA have samsung devices and would hate to see their own development halted by the company.
Strength in numbers. Not to mention, this kind of outcry would show samsung that the sidekick (keyboard devices) are still sought after and will be fought for. Somewhere in our petition should say the resources are just to hold us over until they release the next model which will NOT get treated like the red-headed stepchild the 4G did.
You'd be surprised what a small, vocal group can get done. If anyone has any background on this type of thing, say so. if nobody else steps up I will write it tuesday-Thursday and post it for any revisions, then we can each take a copy and send it. Even a simple facebook page or cheap website would add so much to this cause.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm for it. I think it's a great idea to sign a petition requesting to Samsung at least a test build of Gingerbread. :good:
Agreed broda's we have to do this.:thumbup:
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
I like the idea! I'm not a dev so I wouldn't be able to write the letter, but I can help edit.
I will write up a draft tomorrow after my studies, leaving the appropriate "technical" spots easily editable so that we can get exactly what we need from Samsung per the Devs instruction.
Thank you guys for your support on this, I truly believe good can come of this!
Maybe we can direct them to our sidekick wishlist thread while we're at it ;D
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
I would definitely help to, but English is not my main language. So i would try to help with the petition!
If samsung releases the driver source code I can make a stable CM6 and a BETA CM7 for this community. Butttttttt.....I don't see it happening.
Im up for it, count me in. Sure never doubt the power and determination of an online community especially an open source one like xda
I doubt anything would happen for sk4g. We did similar things in the sgs4g community. Samsung is more like honey badger...
Of course we should try, but i'm not sure that Samsung will help us after 2 years of doing nothing....
I'll post it up within the half hour - this week was busier than expected. And unless Samsung completely destroyed everything relating to our device, it should be as simple as a developers release right?
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Tsloble said:
I'll post it up within the half hour - this week was busier than expected. And unless Samsung completely destroyed everything relating to our device, it should be as simple as a developers release right?
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup
Here is draft one. Feel free to download the doc and make adjustments. Let's just be sure that the majority of our community agree on the final product and then we can take action. I will be sending out the story to Gizmodo/Engadget and stuff too... If this isn't an underdog tech story I don't know what is. You guys might think that's over the top, but it's just not right for a company to abandon their customer and it is never too late to make amends.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is a formal petition regarding the Samsung SGH-T839 device (T-Mobile Sidekick 4G).
We, the loyal consumers (and other), request through this petition that you kindly release development information & resources regarding the SGH-T839. This request is being made due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device since its launch April 20th, 2011. Please note that this device shipped with Android Operating System (Android from this point) Version 2.2 “Froyo” which was released May 20th, 2010. This is despite the fact that the SGH-T839 launch date was over four months after the release of Android Version 2.3 “Gingerbread” (released December 6th, 2010).
Not only was the device shipped with an outdated operating system, but a Kies / Over the Air Update to Gingerbread was never released. This came as a shock to all loyal consumers of the SGH-T839 as Samsung continued to update other devices to the new Android version and release new devices with Gingerbread already installed. In addition to the lack of support, the SGH-T839 had many bugs such as a keystroke logger within the system, the keyboard software missed keystrokes, and frequent Force-Close of applications.
These problems, amongst others, have been thoroughly logged by the XDA Developers Community (www.xda-developers.com). Amazingly, there is a large community of SGH-T839 users that are dedicated to the device and have managed to correct many of the software-related defects that were shipped with the device. This petition requests that Samsung release the following development items to the XDA Development Community, that the loyal consumer of their product may be able to enjoy everything that the SGH-T839 is capable of:
We urge you not to overlook this petition, as it is being circulated amongst several online communities that are dedicated to the Android Open Source Project for support. The influence of these communities over Samsung’s broader handheld-device customer base runs very deep; the XDA Developers Community alone has over 4.7 million registered users. We, the loyal consumer (and other), anticipate a prompt response to this matter. We also look forward to increased involvement from Samsung pertaining to the Android Open Source Project and hopefully a future device with similar form-factor of the SGH-T839.
Sincerely,
Edit 2: Was just thinking maybe "Release source to XDA community should be create developers release pack or something?
Tsloble said:
Here is draft one. Feel free to download the doc and make adjustments. Let's just be sure that the majority of our community agree on the final product and then we can take action. I will be sending out the story to Gizmodo/Engadget and stuff too... If this isn't an underdog tech story I don't know what is. You guys might think that's over the top, but it's just not right for a company to abandon their customer and it is never too late to make amends.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is a formal petition regarding the Samsung SGH-T839 device (T-Mobile Sidekick 4G).
We, the loyal consumers (and other), request through this petition that you kindly release development information & resources regarding the SGH-T839. This request is being made due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device since its launch April 20th, 2011. Please note that this device shipped with Android Operating System (Android from this point) Version 2.2 “Froyo” which was released May 20th, 2010. This is despite the fact that the SGH-T839 launch date was over four months after the release of Android Version 2.3 “Gingerbread” (released December 6th, 2010).
Not only was the device shipped with an outdated operating system, but a Kies / Over the Air Update to Gingerbread was never released. This came as a shock to all loyal consumers of the SGH-T839 as Samsung continued to update other devices to the new Android version and release new devices with Gingerbread already installed. In addition to the lack of support, the SGH-T839 had many bugs such as a keystroke logger within the system, the keyboard software missed keystrokes, and frequent Force-Close of applications.
These problems, amongst others, have been thoroughly logged by the XDA Developers Community (www.xda-developers.com). Amazingly, there is a large community of SGH-T839 users that are dedicated to the device and have managed to correct many of the software-related defects that were shipped with the device. This petition requests that Samsung release the following development items to the XDA Development Community, that the loyal consumer of their product may be able to enjoy everything that the SGH-T839 is capable of:
We urge you not to overlook this petition, as it is being circulated amongst several online communities that are dedicated to the Android Open Source Project for support. The influence of these communities over Samsung’s broader handheld-device customer base runs very deep; the XDA Developers Community alone has over 4.7 million registered users. We, the loyal consumer (and other), anticipate a prompt response to this matter. We also look forward to increased involvement from Samsung pertaining to the Android Open Source Project and hopefully a future device with similar form-factor of the SGH-T839.
Sincerely,
Edit 2: Was just thinking maybe "Release source to XDA community should be create developers release pack or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we should ask for the release source for devoleping
I do not believe any of the official ROMs had the keystroke print statements enabled... someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not sure if I understand what you are asking Samsung for. Any partially complete work toward GB they might have laying around? Not to curse our chances, but I think they are not likely to release source for proprietary drivers.
Be very clear about what you're asking for. They might seriously consider one such request, if it is well reasoned, and within their power to grant.
One other thing to consider is sending this petition to T-Mobile as well. They can exert considerably more pressure on Samsung.
I left the "specific request" blank. It goes at the end of the 2nd to last paragraph after the colon. That's why it looks like I didn't ask for anything. If someone with the knowledge wants to give that list, it can be added and the other revisions can be made.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Good first draft. Keep in mind your audience, though. We're unlikely to get Samsung to help us by insulting them. For example, "due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device" should be replaced with a different reason. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Maybe something about how the device has great potential, especially with the physical keyboard, but has been limited by its operating system. Speaking of keyboards, didn't pretty much all or most ROMs at the time come with the so-called key-logger? Also, keep in mind that Samsung and T-Mobile have no interest in supporting the Sidekick because they don't make any more money off it. They make money by getting people to upgrade to new phones. So whatever we ask them has to be easy for them, like just releasing to developers whatever they have lying around that isn't proprietary. Lastly, it's a bit misleading to say there are X million XDA members. The vast majority of them couldn't care less about the SK; I'm sure the SK community is rather small. Maybe highlight this fact: there are a few of us developers who love the SK as a development machine but our hands are tied because we don't have the code, etc. etc.
marathonjon said:
Good first draft. Keep in mind your audience, though. We're unlikely to get Samsung to help us by insulting them. For example, "due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device" should be replaced with a different reason. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Maybe something about how the device has great potential, especially with the physical keyboard, but has been limited by its operating system. Speaking of keyboards, didn't pretty much all or most ROMs at the time come with the so-called key-logger? Also, keep in mind that Samsung and T-Mobile have no interest in supporting the Sidekick because they don't make any more money off it. They make money by getting people to upgrade to new phones. So whatever we ask them has to be easy for them, like just releasing to developers whatever they have lying around that isn't proprietary. Lastly, it's a bit misleading to say there are X million XDA members. The vast majority of them couldn't care less about the SK; I'm sure the SK community is rather small. Maybe highlight this fact: there are a few of us developers who love the SK as a development machine but our hands are tied because we don't have the code, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with this.
T-Mobile knows that they have everything because of loyal customers, not to mention how many of the hundreds of thousands of people who owned Sidekicks. Samsung understands this which is obviously why they decided to pick up the device two years ago.
Play this to our advantage. Tug on their heartstrings, so to speak.
Yeah, I agree. Haha I guess this letter wasn't the place to let my frustrations out ;P
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app