Database Info

SBF/Other proprietary code (devs only pl0x-help me help)

I been mirroring things.
We have fission, etc- everything to SBF (Saved my ass, laptop broke- had to use someone else's- I enjoy my fast as hell easy to use repository )
So anyways then I read about new full SBF isn't released yet because of it's motorola proprietary code?
In that case I'll probably start a droid repo only on servers in a country without DMCA laws
Let me know- and if some guys want to set up and have access to publish files on this node I'll give certain people access. I don't have a PC setup yet but you can email me at chris aaaaat evilpuma.com
I've donated dozens of terabytes over the years, don't thank me but assist me in helping others. Tis was a pain in the arse to even get the SBF files the first time- glad I mirrored it.
(Sidenote since I'm sure devs only wont read: I don't want to host copyrighted apk's and what not. Not because I can't but because it's rude to the nice people who created that software. Get those apk's that cost $$$ from google and save them on your SD card- never need to DL again )

cmanns said:
I been mirroring things.
We have fission, etc- everything to SBF (Saved my ass, laptop broke- had to use someone else's- I enjoy my fast as hell easy to use repository )
So anyways then I read about new full SBF isn't released yet because of it's motorola proprietary code?
In that case I'll probably start a droid repo only on servers in a country without DMCA laws
Let me know- and if some guys want to set up and have access to publish files on this node I'll give certain people access. I don't have a PC setup yet but you can email me at chris aaaaat evilpuma.com
I've donated dozens of terabytes over the years, don't thank me but assist me in helping others. Tis was a pain in the arse to even get the SBF files the first time- glad I mirrored it.
(Sidenote since I'm sure devs only wont read: I don't want to host copyrighted apk's and what not. Not because I can't but because it's rude to the nice people who created that software. Get those apk's that cost $$$ from google and save them on your SD card- never need to DL again )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SBF 2.3.20 is out.

I been going forum to forum, so it's not copyrighted?
Sorry I read that it can't be released fully, so the full SBF is out?
My question is it legal to host SBF's in USA or not (& wheres the 2.3.2 at, MDW?)
thanks echo- been kinda out of the loop. Glad to see fissions hit 2.x!

cmanns said:
I been going forum to forum, so it's not copyrighted?
Sorry I read that it can't be released fully, so the full SBF is out?
My question is it legal to host SBF's in USA or not (& wheres the 2.3.2 at, MDW?)
thanks echo- been kinda out of the loop. Glad to see fissions hit 2.x!
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Yes MDW. They have it linked to a megaupload. Check your pm.

Ah yes thats where I was reading bout it needing permission to be released haha

It technically is copyrighted and does contain proprietary code. However, the internet is flooded with SBF/SHX files from motorola as well as their RSDLite, RSD General, and other softwares, and I never once heard of anyone or any site getting a take down for having or posting them. Motorola generally plays nicely with the modding community (aside from locking down their phones).
Now, LG on the other hand...

bladearronwey said:
It technically is copyrighted and does contain proprietary code. However, the internet is flooded with SBF/SHX files from motorola as well as their RSDLite, RSD General, and other softwares, and I never once heard of anyone or any site getting a take down for having or posting them. Motorola generally plays nicely with the modding community (aside from locking down their phones).
Now, LG on the other hand...
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Click to collapse
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
They are very serious about protecting their IP and doing everything possible to make all of what has been done so far on DX and D2 useless or of very limited value going forward. That is why they are including a new bootloader with every release now to prevent going back to prior versions.
Blanket statements about their willingness to allow such things to be posted are not valid unfortunately.

cellzealot said:
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
They are very serious about protecting their IP and doing everything possible to make all of what has been done so far on DX and D2 useless or of very limited value going forward. That is why they are including a new bootloader with every release now to prevent going back to prior versions.
Blanket statements about their willingness to allow such things to be posted are not valid unfortunately.
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Historically, it's never been motorola against the modding community. If we're gunna point fingers at those responsible for the current closed model push, I think we need to start with the carriers...

bladearronwey said:
Historically, it's never been motorola against the modding community. If we're gunna point fingers at those responsible for the current closed model push, I think we need to start with the carriers...
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Click to collapse
History unfortunately does not reflect the current situation.
I have always felt that there was tacit support from inside Motorola for the modding and hacking community. I don't know if that was actually the case or if it was simply lax security and apathy, but it all changed when Sanjay Jha took over a saved Moto from oblivion. He is a former Qualcomm exec and is by nature extremely security conscious and this new push for control and lockdowns of the new phones is entirely his initiative and not coming from VZW at all.
He is committed to this new regime and sees protection of Moto's IP as key to the future success of the company. They are trying to establish themselves with a secure platform for enterprise use and wrestle that market away from RIM. The coming move to LTE will only solidify this position and all of these new methods they are using are just a prelude to even more ironclad security measures for those devices.
There is a lot more to it than I have touched on here but I have it on very good authority that this is how it's going to be for the foreseeable future.
We will have our hands full trying to keep up I am sure...

cellzealot said:
History unfortunately does not reflect the current situation.
I have always felt that there was tacit support from inside Motorola for the modding and hacking community. I don't know if that was actually the case or if it was simply lax security and apathy, but it all changed when Sanjay Jha took over a saved Moto from oblivion. He is a former Qualcomm exec and is by nature extremely security conscious and this new push for control and lockdowns of the new phones is entirely his initiative and not coming from VZW at all.
He is committed to this new regime and sees protection of Moto's IP as key to the future success of the company. They are trying to establish themselves with a secure platform for enterprise use and wrestle that market away from RIM. The coming move to LTE will only solidify this position and all of these new methods they are using are just a prelude to even more ironclad security measures for those devices.
There is a lot more to it than I have touched on here but I have it on very good authority that this is how it's going to be for the foreseeable future.
We will have our hands full trying to keep up I am sure...
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Click to collapse
Seems consistent from what I've read and heard as well.
Really, all you have to do is read the lawsuits over patents and positioning of IP BS - "we made this and you didn't" vs "well we made this and you can't use it" - to see that these companies have all mapped /flex to their spacebar.

cellzealot said:
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
</snip>
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So generally speaking it'd be good to start a mirror in this 3rd world country server location for SBF's and such?
Considering I can host windows iso's publicly... I don't know what I couldn't host there LOL
I've not got a C&D from my mirror of 2.2.2? sbf but I havent pushed that file around much.
Are they getting a C&D for posting link or hosting? I dislike that sorta thing, I don't mind putting up a lil battle but I'm def going to host these files non-usa then.
I posted this thread so whoever has access that wants me to setup a safe repo I can do so and give them/group access

Apathetic towards Viewsonic (June 2011 update)

1- OTA updater has been broken for six days, now (it started on Monday). This is completely unacceptable, given that this is the ONLY way to get updates from them officially. What if you got the item from Tiger Direct in the last week at $299, and have build 2963 on it? If you didn't go to XDA and fix this manually yourself, you'd be SOOL.
2- The last official firmware was in mid January. We are going on three months since the last stock update. We know there was a UAT that was significantly better than the one in January, but it was never released (and eventually pulled from the TapnTap servers) with a "TBD" for the new ETA.
I'm going to very blunt, and I hope that Viewsonic is reading this. I'm very disappointed in how this is all going down, ESPECIALLY given that you've had a big bump in user numbers in the last two weeks or so. You and I both know this, and yet you can't seem to get your act together, here.
I'm not your developer - you are not paying me, or XDA, to do your support work for you. And we certainly should not be the place to send users to get their stock updates - that's just ridiculous. Please get a meeting together with TapnTap, or whoever you need to, early next week and get them to fix these issues, please. If I were running the show over there, I'd have them on the phone a week ago asking for an ETA ASAP, and updating that web site with details on what's going on and when it will be fixed. Seriously, your web site still talks about the December firmware release (the one, btw, that the poor Tiger Direct users haven't been able to even get, since Monday) - are your web developers asleep over there?
If it wasn't for the user base here in XDA, my device would have probably been wiped and cleaned up right about now, and I would have put this thing up for sale. I actually know at least one dev here in XDA who's already done this. And, as time goes on, I'll be more inclined to do this if you've made the decision to completely abandon this device. Because, to be blunt, this is the perception that I'm starting to get, as the days drag on with no resolution.
I'm not asking for Honeycomb - I just want you to get your current problems fixed and at least get that 1.2 dev branch released. I know you have an account here, so maybe a reply to this thread would set all our minds at ease.
Thank you.
4/11/2011 EDIT -- agree with me and want your voice heard?
twitter: @viewsonic
contact us page: http://www.viewsonic.com/contact/
Phone Number: 866-501-6405 / 310-228-4000. (thanks snapz54 and chili_red!)
4/12/2011 EDIT -- OTA updater is still borked, as of this writing. And the next firmware update, as per their web site, is now "anticipated" in May.
4/13/2011 EDIT -- Even more details on who you can contact (thanks snapz54!): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12843221&postcount=189 The OTA Updater is still down, but should be up tomorrow (allegedly).
4/14/2011 EDIT -- OTA updater is up, finally. Showing "3588" as the latest, so no new update (this was not a surprise).
4/15/2011 EDIT -- I think it's time to change the title of this post.
6/22/2011 EDIT -- Thread is still alive? 4349 was pulled in mid-April, still no word on an update from them 2 months later. 3588 (from January) is still technically their "latest", as per the OTA updater. I am actually beyone aggravated, I am apathetic at this point.

I am going to return mine soon too, even at 299.99 , lack support = nth

Op why did you post this in the dev section
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

roebeet
+1 from Russia

roebeet said:
1- OTA updater has been broken for six days, now (it started on Monday). This is completely unacceptable, given that this is the ONLY way to get updates from them officially. What if you got the item from Tiger Direct in the last week at $299, and have build 2963 on it? If you didn't go to XDA and fix this manually yourself, you'd be SOOL.
2- The last official firmware was in mid January. We are going on three months since the last stock update. We know there was a UAT that was significantly better than the one in January, but it was never released (and eventually pulled from the TapnTap servers) with a "TBD" for the new ETA.
I'm going to very blunt, and I hope that Viewsonic is reading this. I'm very disappointed in how this is all going down, ESPECIALLY given that you've had a big bump in user numbers in the last two weeks or so. You and I both know this, and yet you can't seem to get your act together, here.
I'm not your developer - you are not paying me, or XDA, to do your support work for you. And we certainly should not be the place to send users to get their stock updates - that's just ridiculous. Please get a meeting together with TapnTap, or whoever you need to, early next week and get them to fix these issues, please. If I were running the show over there, I'd have them on the phone a week ago asking for an ETA ASAP, and updating that web site with details on what's going on and when it will be fixed. Seriously, your web site still talks about the December firmware release - are your web developers asleep over there?
If it wasn't for the user base here in XDA, my device would have probably been wiped and cleaned up right about now, and I would have put this thing up for sale. I actually know at least one dev here in XDA who's already done this. And, as time goes on, I'll be more inclined to do this if you've made the decision to completely abandon this device. Because, to be blunt, this is the perception that I'm starting to get, as the days drag on with no resolution.
I'm not asking for Honeycomb - I just want you to get your current problems fixed and at least get that 1.2 dev branch released. I know you have an account here, so maybe a reply to this thread would set all our minds at ease.
Thank you.
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This is an IMPORTANT post!! I think it should be voted to the front page. Viewsonic and for that matter all suppliers should have a commitment to their users/buyers. Our $$$$ is what support them and they should respect the user community. If they want to be selling more they should make what they have work!!!!
Please vote the post to first page, have them take note and take us seriously.
Thank you roebeet!!

roebeet
+1

I suppose if I wanted to keep it stock I'd be mad too, but I purchased this device specifically due to the hardware specs and the decent set of developers here at XDA.
My tab was rooted as soon as the battery was fully charged.
My Moto droid was rooted about a month into ownership and is currently running a gingerbread rom Moto claims the device can't handle (so we can go buy a new one).
What I'm trying to point out is that there is little incentive for companies to spend time and money supporting equipment that is out in the field unless somehing is seriously wrong with it.
Viewsonic's decision to cripple (lack of full market, etc...) the stock device is really similar to VZ's decision to do the same to their phones (bloatware, etc...).
My advice to you is follow the simple instructions posted here and elsewhere on the net and install a custom rom (vegantab 5.1 is a very nice place to start).
It is very difficult to screw up and your device will be all it can be months if not years sooner than it would be waiting for a stock upgrade.

Gumby,
Roebeet is a dev here. He's responsible for the TNT Lite and GADAM ROMs and was involved with Vegan as well. He's concerned about his ability to support us, not the performance of his tablet.
I believe the majority of modders are on TNT Lite because it is the most stable and well-supported ROM available. Viewsonic/TapnTap are making his job difficult. I'm guessing, but Viewsonic/TapnTap are probably stretched trying to deliver their next devices and have basically let GTablet development come to a screeching halt.
This is a shame and will probably cause many of us to look elsewhere for our next slate.

100 % Agree
Roebeet, thanks for bringing this up. I have been discussing this we others this past week. We were wondering exactly the same thing - Where is Viewsonic? They have not put out any updates or updated the website nor given us any information. I personally cannot understand this. They have a great product and could take the lead in the tablet market but are doing nothing.
Thanks for bringing this to everyones attention Roebeet. I am behind you 100%.

The fact it is on sale at woot and tigerdirect should be enough clues that viewsonic is moving dev resources away and probably to their next tablet product.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

We aren't waiting for stock updates, the updates just give the devs more goodies to work with.
thank you roebeet, for making it feel like this community has a voice. My other device is a Locked down droid X so I know the feeling of being abandoned and laughed at by the manufacturer of your product. All these companies get a little success, but they quickly forget where they came from. I don't see anyone rushing out to line up for a viewpad and maybe it will stay that way if we continue to voice our opinions and the truth about viewsonic.
I think these companies think they can operate on the standalone GPS model of update frequency, once a year. That is not the world we live in though. I'd say two years is fair support table with a firmware update a minimum of every six months and above all else, CONSTANT OPEN COMMUNICATION WITH THE COMMUNITY THAT DEVELOPS AROUND YOUR PRODUCT.
We will fall off gradually at first, then a bit quicker, then a bit quicker still until there is an avalanche of gtabs on ebay and craigslist. Selling at 40 dollars each and being repursposed and sold as digital frames to the housewives of the world.
You've been warned Viewsonic, this is a direct clear threat. Come to the community or lose your established base and hope for anything more than a bargain bin future.
Think of how many people would have returned this product day 1 without a community, seriously consider that, the number is high. If not for the selfless efforts of people like roebeet. With no where to go, the people give up hope.
So what is it going to be?

Thanks Roebeet, very well stated. They do need to get their **** together. We know right now the product isn't up to par with competition so if they want to compete it better be in the way of support. All we ask Viewsonic, is to keep us informed!

doctorisin said:
Gumby,
Roebeet is a dev here. He's responsible for the TNT Lite and GADAM ROMs and was involved with Vegan as well. He's concerned about his ability to support us, not the performance of his tablet.
I believe the majority of modders are on TNT Lite because it is the most stable and well-supported ROM available. Viewsonic/TapnTap are making his job difficult. I'm guessing, but Viewsonic/TapnTap are probably stretched trying to deliver their next devices and have basically let GTablet development come to a screeching halt.
This is a shame and will probably cause many of us to look elsewhere for our next slate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... didn't know he was a dev. Appologies, but the main points of my post are still valid (as you also noted in your speculation about their lack of support).
I guess I am wondering what they need to update that is holding up development of anything else? GB roms are out there now (and honeycomb ones won't be far off either) so what froyo fixes are showstopping?

Im_Gumby said:
Hmmm... didn't know he was a dev. Appologies, but the main points of my post are still valid (as you also noted in your speculation about their lack of support).
I guess I am wondering what they need to update that is holding up development of anything else? GB roms are out there now (and honeycomb ones won't be far off either) so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude, do you realize everything you say has no basis in fact? You are telling one of the guys that is our only hope of possibly running honeycomb on the gtab his own future. How do you know we'll get the source code? How do you know it will be usable? How do you know there will be a similar device we can port from? How do you know anything?
the simple answer is you don't. You seem to be arrogant and uneducated on the subject, so kindly back out of this conversation unless you have something relevant to add. You're stealing focus from an important topic.

Im_Gumby said:
..... so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
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Click to collapse
How about in sleep mode the gTab sucks up the battery like there's no tomorrow?
Hey Roebeet, I always thought it was SOL? But I do agree with you.

Exactly right, lets not lose focus... The scariest thing to me is that Robert is the originator of this thread. If he feels this way, then we may all be screwed as far as future support is concerned.
@Robeet -thanks for leading the charge and giving us a voice.
@Viewsonic. Please respond to this thread and keep an open dialogue with this community.

seems as if @roebeet got viewsonics attention on twitter?
any contact?

snapz54 said:
dude, do you realize everything you say has no basis in fact? You are telling one of the guys that is our only hope of possibly running honeycomb on the gtab his own future. How do you know we'll get the source code? How do you know it will be usable? How do you know there will be a similar device we can port from? How do you know anything?
the simple answer is you don't. You seem to be arrogant and uneducated on the subject, so kindly back out of this conversation unless you have something relevant to add. You're stealing focus from an important topic.
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You are right... google COULD decide not to release any more source codes.
And you might decide to be less of a tool.
Neither seems very likely.

My bad on the location - I thought I was in General when I posted this.
If a mod could move this, I'd appreciate it.
doctorisin said:
Gumby,
Roebeet is a dev here. He's responsible for the TNT Lite and GADAM ROMs and was involved with Vegan as well. He's concerned about his ability to support us, not the performance of his tablet.
I believe the majority of modders are on TNT Lite because it is the most stable and well-supported ROM available. Viewsonic/TapnTap are making his job difficult. I'm guessing, but Viewsonic/TapnTap are probably stretched trying to deliver their next devices and have basically let GTablet development come to a screeching halt.
This is a shame and will probably cause many of us to look elsewhere for our next slate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You nailed it. TNT Lite is basically an extension of stock - it gets updated, in general, when stock gets updated. If Viewsonic development dies, then TNT Lite dies - it's that simple.
We need the vendor to keep on top with updates as there are things that they can do for us, even to this day. UAT 3991 build was a perfect example (before they pulled it) - it's a MUCH better baseline to work off of than 3389 / 3588.
I know many are using the GB mods, and those would survive even if the vendor abandoned the device. But TNT Lite and anything else based off stock would fall by the wayside, and we really don't want that. Options are a good thing.
I want a response from them tomorrow or Tuesday - I don't like how they are treating their userbase right now (which includes me, as I own one) and I think we deserve an explanation and an ETA, at this point. If this happened at my day job, heads would be rolling by now.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about -- Pandigital. Their "Novel" white device was released in May and they are STILL releasing updates to it, to this day. Granted, they are still stuck on Android 2.0, but the fact they they just released an update a few weeks ago is a good sign that they haven't abandoned the device, yet. This is what I'd like to see from Viewsonic.
Im_Gumby said:
Hmmm... didn't know he was a dev. Appologies, but the main points of my post are still valid (as you also noted in your speculation about their lack of support).
I guess I am wondering what they need to update that is holding up development of anything else? GB roms are out there now (and honeycomb ones won't be far off either) so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you lose your XDA devs, then there IS no more development for this product. One dev here has already sold their device, and mine has been relegated as a dev unit since February (which I'm A-OK with, btw). If Viewsonic abandons this product, then the developers will eventually move on. In my case, stock updates are critical to keep TNT Lite relevant - once those are gone, TNT Lite will become stale and die. gADAM can stick around as long as Notion Ink supplies updates, and that remains to be seen as well. So don't think vendor support isn't important, because it actually is.

Well said, roebeet.

[SUGGESTION] Setting a Bounty on the bootloader.

As most of you would know, we have learned quite a bit about Defy bootloader during the last week.
We always thought that Motorola don't have a method to unlock production defys (defys shipped to end users). Well we have sufficient information now to prove that Motorola have a method, and that it converts production defys to engineering defys (Phones used by Motorola engineers to make ROMs and other stuff)
This is actually better than a simple unlocked boot-loader because eng defys have unlimited applications (because we have direct access to MOBO/CPU) like overclocking gpu, installing other OS like Ubuntu, Debian, WP7 etc. into NAND and a lot more.
So the problem here is that the tools required for ENG switch is only available to Motorola employees. Till now we have no further information on it. The tools are TI OMAP BOARD CONFIGURATION TOOL and a 16MB .bin file. Other significance of this method is that it might also unlock other phones with OMAP(3xxx/xxxx?) board. Also this method seems to be very stable.
So the good news is that this software is available for most Motorola repair centers. That means it would be easier to get a leak. Of course the highly paid Motorola engineers with 6digit paycheck wont leak it but we should consider low level repair executives (they already leak sbfs and RSDlite).
So my suggestion is we start a bounty thread in XDA to tempt them.
If you have a solution and if you are concerned about anonymity, please PM me.
PS : There are lots of bounty threads in xda.

Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"

the|gamer said:
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm. It depend's on which country you are from.

I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this). And someone with access to Motorola's employees (I think the user racca works on a Moto distributor, but I'm not sure of it, I think he mentioned it in some thread a few months ago) could rush and "bribe" them. If people could be a bit more clear about which kind of employees should have access to this software, I could try and convince one of them (you know, people here in Brazil aren't that much into honesty, but are a lot into money) about heading us a leak from TI's software. I'll have to take my phone to MOTOAssist soon ("menu" and "back" keys' backlights are weaker than normal), so I'd have at least an actual reason to talk to an assist technician (assuming they have access to the board configuration tool).
Yet, since I'm no hacker (yet, I'm planning on getting a Nook Color - which community here in XDA seems to provide all you need to start your own ROM - and starting messing around with it) nor coder (know only a little about C programming), I would not try and mess around with TI's software, but only upload it somewhere and give you guys a link for it.

K3n bH1mur4 said:
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).

royale1223 said:
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno, since it's illegal, it may not be the best option to promote it. Obviously, it's still not immoral, but we all know that morality and law often do not converge, so it may be better to go rogue, talking in private with motoassist technicians and stuff like that, because, even if we're just fighting for our rights, we're still using non-legal ways, and risking to be sued for it.

I don't think promoting a website is illegal. What's illegal is hosting an illegal one.

Promoting a website who promises cash for employees of a corporation who leak internal software used by that corp. might be considered illegal in most places. Fortunately (or not, I'll explain why), we have jurisprudence to embase of: in september 1st, last year, a judge here in Brazil condemned Moto to update a customer's Dext/CLIQ to Android 2.1 (Moto did not provide this update here in Brazil, even though it did in many countries) without voiding the warranty.
I know it's just one case, in just one country, and updating an android version is way different than providing unlocked bootloaders (or the tools for users to do so). And, yes, I agree with placing a bounty at the tool. Yet, if we get caught, Moto can still argue that we had other ways to pursue our rights, and we should have used the justice system to do so, if we believed we were that right. Yet, they're a multimillion-worthy company (even bigger after being purchased by Google), and we're a bunch of broke users, at most devs making a couple thousand dollars, and would have little chance against their lawyers. Last, but not least, employers who help us may get caught and fired because of us, and I sincerely want nobody (ok, maybe a few of the highest executives) to get fired just for me to get an unlocked BL.
So, my point is: let's make this a stealth action. Get a reason for your phone to be taken to Motoassist (no intentional bricking, please! You must flash an official SBF before taking it there! - at least if your phone is still under warranty), get to talk with one of their technicians, and mention - indifferently - that some guys are giving alway big money for any Moto employee who leaks that TI OMAP software. Something like this: "hey, did you hear that crazy devs at this dev forum are paying the first moto technician to hand them some sort of software? Something OMAP-related, I don't know for sure. All I know is that the reward is some nice cash."
When the word spread, we could have an unlocked bootloader within a month.
Yet, we got a single issue to deal: how to ensure the person who gives us the SW first will actually receive the cash? I've seen a few bounties here before, but them all were settled by XDA devs (so the bounty keeper could just donate the sum to that dev), never saw something like paying "outsiders".

One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App

swapnil360 said:
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talk with this guy. If he has access to a copy of TI's SW, and handle it to us, I'm pretty sure we could him get a nice reward. Not as high as if putting a bounty, but definitely enough to make the effort worth it.
I mean, supposing that this is actually gonna help unlock EVERY OMAP 3 (and possibly all OMAP-based phones) out there, and that this way the process is reversible (at least to me, it looks like no eFuse is being blown there, you know, assistance technicians can't just blow eFuses like that - taking the phone to the assistance under warranty shouldn't void it, and that's what a blown eFuse would do), loads of people would help. Imagine a single dollar from every OMAP 3 XDA user (take a look here for an INCOMPLETE list of OMAP 3 devices with ~30 ANDROID ONLY phones/tablets), that would make a lot of money.

this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...

hailmary said:
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah we would ensure him that.

I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials

hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do u know motorola mobility service center in mbai?
we only hav private shops with motos certificate...
i dont think they can help...
all they say is we'll send it to factory(?)
Sent from my MB525 using xda premium

@hemil Please pm me.

hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey buddy... just wait for my call today...
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App

Putting up an ads offering money for violation the law may be a bit problematic. No website will be excited to host it. Another issue is that in the end someone will have to actually post it, someone in particular. And that one person will be in danger of being a subject of interest of various law enforcement agencies. You know, at the end of the day they always want someone to put the responsibility on, the culprit, a scapegoat. So you make heat and you put some particular person into it even before there is any result.
I would prefer to focus more on personal face to face private communications with the service guys. It's harder to prove and if something goes wrong (the guy records it etc.) our guy can always say he was just kidding, bullshitting, bigmouthing.
Anyway, if you are thinking about this seriously, here are few remarks.
don't offer the particular sum, it's not tactical; not even here should be mentioned any particular number; instead, let the service guy ask his price
if the first contact with a potential source is established, ask first for a proof; specify what the proof is supposed to be (a screenshot? a video recording of the software in action?)
figure out a way how to actually collect the money; people are willing to donate but they will not donate to anyone, only to someone trustworthy (but Epsylon will surely want to have nothing to do with everything even remotely questionable, let alone illegal); the "collector" will be under the lights, he may get attention of people we don't want to deal with
who actually will be allowed to donate? anyone? how to avoid an agent to donate and then simply track where the money is going?
figure out a way how to actually make a safe and smooth deal (money <-> software); will it be in person or electronically? how to verify we are given what we paid for? classical problem: no one of both parties is willing to make his move first, but we can't give away the money for a software we would start verifying not until the money is gone
figure out how to avoid being robbed (fake offers from people who would want to grab the money and run away) as well as being caught (fake offers from the dummy guy - LE agent); in both cases the correct proof might be given, though, but the intentions are wrong
For the particular mechanics of the exchange in person, one of numerous possible ways may go like this:
our guy comes with an intentionally bricked Defy repairable only with the software in question together with the ordinary USB cable (or without, if special USB cable is needed; in that case the cable must be part of the deal), and with an empty flash drive recognizable at the first sight; no money on him
our guy passes the flash drive and the Defy (and the USB cable, if no special cable is needed) to the "source" and watches closely
the source copies the software onto the flash drive, runs the software from the flash drive, connects the Defy via the cable provided and actually unbricks the phone (this must be more elaborated on; what if the software uses some libraries from the windows directories etc. which are not copied onto the flash drive? he may or may not have the installer, but just copying the installer isn't enough, he would have to copy the installer on the flash drive, then run the installer from it and install it back onto the flash drive and run it from there)
our guy gets the phone (and the cable) back, the source unplugs the flash drive and keeps it for now, our guy watches the flash drive is not connected to anything from now on
now the software is copied onto the flash drive and verified it's working, thus ordinary hand-to-hand exchange may proceed; our guy didn't bring the money to avoid being robbed, they both now may go grab the money or our guy may call his buddy with the money etc. (also needs to be heavily elaborated on)
Sensitive parts must be detailed in-depth, I am just indicating the outline, one of many possible. Still it's very far from perfect.
As you can see it's not that easy and there are many potential points of failure so this action may never really come to the practical realization.
What about a little bit different or alternative ways? Are there any? It would be useful to ask Epsylon what he would actually wish for the most - had he been able to wish for anything.

isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???

rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh !! think about moto when they actually ditch us with promises ? whats wrong if what we are screaming for last 1 year . and didnt get any updates ? huh think about tht before u speak about illegal stuffs . if moto is doing all sought of ways to keep us away from our rights . what we do undercover to get us right can no way be questioned when we have told thousands of times that we need updates .
more over the authority can question us only and only when they are themselves self guilt free .... but instead they are pretending to be saint sitting behind the curtains and doing all sought of locking stuff to deprive us of our rights

@jhonsmithx Let's not get ahead of ourselves. First of all lets concentrate on getting the source. Also I urge users to use a bit of social engineering to do that(using fb/g ). We'll put together a plan according to the situation after that. Also note that this is a pretty long shot. We might not get a source after all.
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could think of atleast 10 ways to share anonymously. Though I wont be posting them here.

The First XDA Phone

Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers

jimmymetis said:
Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.

zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried to find anything about this but didn't, could you tell me which thread talk about that?

zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this has been discuss already then you can close the thread. still didn't find anything on the subject, maybe i'm not using the good key words to find it. anyway thanx

Petition to Samsung.

Hi.
What kind of power we can have if we will make petition to Samsung software/developement team to do some updates of Android to our phone?
How many users are here that have this awesome mobile?
I always think is good idea to try than moan...

I e-mailed Yotaphone and asked if they would consider making a qwerty slider....
I think it would be beneficial if we all did the same.

It is not my intention, to find new device.
I am fed up going for new.
Old is good enough many times.
Our mobile is enough for emails, www etc. but the only downside is software.

It's not going to happen. Both the carrier (T-Mobile) and Samsung would need to agree that it's worth spending a lot of money to give this phone an upgrade. Given that both companies want you to buy a new phone every 5 minutes, neither of them want people to be satisfied with their old phone. And speaking of old, this phone is almost 3 years old and has a small user base. There are hundreds of more popular phones released between then and now which haven't seen updates, so no one's going to pay much attention to ours. The only way to get updates is to make them ourselves.

If we don't try - we will never know for sure.
How many registered users are in Relay section, can anybody check?

Check in

I am in business!

Here!
Sent from my SGH-T699 using XDA Free mobile app

I'm still using mine, but it's really a secondary phone at this point. Given that the flex cable is this phone's Achilles heel, I don't slide the keyboard out very often, either.

lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo

doitright said:
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to learn how to code but no one really has time to teach and i know there are plenty of guides but I'm afraid I'll kill my phone. I've already managed to kill my usb port, not from coding attempts, but nonetheless inoperable. As for donating, the relay is my only working t mobile phone so I don't want to give it up. I would, however would pitch in on one. From what I've seen they go for about 100 or so. I would like to be part of the solution in any way I can.

Another Relay user here...
Since this is one of the last good QWERTY phones around, figured it was time to stop just lurking this forum and sign up lol. I'd also be willing to test any new 5.x ROMs built, since I'll have an alternate phone in a couple of days that I can fall back to if I break this one.

I have a phone and I can code, however I need somebody who give me clue or some direction to follow. I've never coded for hardware, only business apps.

This one is not gonna be cheap, but if it runs android it will be amazing:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/02/blackberry-venice-slider-leak/

Wow! Extremely cool, man! Thanks for the info