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When I read the headline from WMPoweruser that WM7 is not going to have compatibility with apps from WM6.5 and prior, I did a doubletake. Admittedly, perhaps it was a bit presumptuous, but I had always thought Microsoft would work on Windows Mobile similarly to, well, Windows.
Or any other operating system, for that matter.
After hearing the news, I immediately went on my phone, and started counting all the apps which I consider of any importance. I have a total of 25 apps which I consider of any importance to the usage of my phone. Of those 25 apps, I consider 10 to be very important (apps I'd be hard pressed to give up). Of those 10, about 5 (possibly 6) will probably be updated for WM7, and there's a good chance I may be wrong on some of those.
Now, I've read theories that Microsoft will possibly create an emulator within WM7 that allows legacy apps to work or, at the least, develop a way for companies to easily update their apps to WM7 compatibility. I can't be sure what is right or even if the incompatibility is just a result of the OS being an early build, but to be honest, I can't imagine myself giving up all the apps I've gotten used to.
Any good application coder would re-write his/her apps imo. If you really want WM7 to be brand new, some things have to be left behind. And yeah an emulator or something like WINE would work nicely.
Not a problem for me. There are enough apps needed a update for YEARS....
So it is a good chance for a clean restart with new software, services and fun.
This needs to be done, otherwise it'll just keep getting worse and worse.
JRK-Scope said:
Any good application coder would re-write his/her apps imo. If you really want WM7 to be brand new, some things have to be left behind. And yeah an emulator or something like WINE would work nicely.
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I do agree with you that a developer who wants their software to have the best optimization will rewrite it, but realistically speaking, it probably won't happen. Speaking from experience of similar things happening elsewhere, the only apps likely to get updated are the apps which are regularly updated anyway.
Apps which haven't receive an update in years aren't likely to be rewritten for an entirely new OS. Apps which have active developers may still not get an update anyway because the developer may not see it as cost effective (if it's a paid app) or if the developer lost interest (free app).
I mean, hell, there's still a large number of WinMo apps I come across all the time still listed as only WM5/6 compatible (although they seem to work fine with WM6.1/6.5). Meh, looking at the responses, I guess this isn't such a big deal for others as it is for me.
Yeah it is like old 16 bit games will not work in windows environment but better 32 bit games are available.. but there hacks to run 16 bit games and programs so it wil not be a issue.
Also this is good for Windows mobile community as old programs were degined with stylus in mind so new apps will utilize upcoming capacitve screens and other sensors.
lets wait till feb to make any presumptions. i read the article. that guy is supposed to be like a guru but he says android version numbers wrong, retells a bunch of strange rumors, and has no screenshots.
Who cares, as long as this means games will be nicer use the compass, accelorometer, lightsensors and gps with finger friendly fancy UI's.....and comes to the HD2 at least
I would take this "news" with a massive pinch of salt, guys.
One very important thing to remember about Microsoft. They have NEVER EVER written a new version of any of their OS's that WASN'T compatible with the previous version; EVER.
If they decided to do that with WM7, they would be shooting themselves in the foot, big time.
Also, remember. The ONLY people that have seen or know ANYTHING about WM7, are under a strict NDA. If this guy IS one of those, MS would already have slapped him with a lawsuit for breaking it by now.
Just wondering people's thoughts here. With some of the limits Windows Phone 7 will have, like file access or installing your own apps, how long do you think these features will take to open up.
I'm guessing under 6 months but, that's just me.
you ?
No way to tell exactly until someone gets the final release in their hands, until then it's all speculations.
As many geeks as there are on xda forums im not worried. A week or two maybe.
A month or there about...after the final release
Few months after the final release of wm7 officially
One thing is for sure, it will be jailbroken and hopefully microsoft will realize that the users want those features, but I'm not to sure about the latter thing.
Has the most recent Zune been broken yet? I know versions 1 and 2 were, but I think since version 3 going forward no one has been able to hack it. So WP7 may be locked down pretty tight.
I'm sure there will be way more people trying to break WP7 then there are Zune, but it may be tough.
TriAxisFL said:
Has the most recent Zune been broken yet? I know versions 1 and 2 were, but I think since version 3 going forward no one has been able to hack it. So WP7 may be locked down pretty tight.
I'm sure there will be way more people trying to break WP7 then there are Zune, but it may be tough.
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I do believe they got native code running on it. Not full rom flashing or anything but better than nothing.
The big difference between WP7 and Zune is the hardware ecosystem. Zune is tightly controlled by Microsoft; they're able to keep everything secret and put security controls on the boot loader and other stuff. This wouldn't be feasible on WP7 as they have to provide BSPs and other technical details and bits to OEMs. Also, it has to work on a much wider range of hardware that Microsoft can't control so there's less hardware security. Lastly, the platform as a whole is much more open. OEMs can write native code (albeit still in controlled manners) and it's much easier for 3rd party devs to make apps available to users. So basically this leads them to be left with a platform that is inherently less secure. I'm sure they have some tricks up their sleeves, particularly with digital signatures, so we shall see.
it will not be harder than iphone os4 jailbreak...so it will take a few weeks.(I hope)
^ that's one phone. WP7 will have many with different hurdles of their own.
Why is everyone predicting weeks?
Has anyone heard of a dev device being successfully 'jailbroken'? There's almost 10k phones that are probably in the hands of the same people that are likely to jailbreak the thing in the 1st place. I know it's not final software or hardware, but I can't see either being vastly different.
If it were weeks a dev device would have been broken by now.
gom99 said:
Why is everyone predicting weeks?
Has anyone heard of a dev device being successfully 'jailbroken'? There's almost 10k phones that are probably in the hands of the same people that are likely to jailbreak the thing in the 1st place. I know it's not final software or hardware, but I can't see either being vastly different.
If it were weeks a dev device would have been broken by now.
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Not defending the "weeks" vote but it is very possible that someone has done it but is just keeping it close to the vest so that MS won't patch it before devices are even available.
RustyGrom said:
Not defending the "weeks" vote but it is very possible that someone has done it but is just keeping it close to the vest so that MS won't patch it before devices are even available.
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could be true, I've heard speculation that it wouldn't be much different than unlocking 6.5
sprinttouch666 said:
could be true, I've heard speculation that it wouldn't be much different than unlocking 6.5
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Possibly, but MS seem to be going to greater lengths to make it harder for people to tamper with the phone. For example ROM cooking is probably made more difficult..each device is given a certificate, if that certificate isn't present the device will not work.
RustyGrom said:
Also, it has to work on a much wider range of hardware that Microsoft can't control so there's less hardware security.
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All hardware is pre-ordered HTC,LG etc are just designing unique chassis. It's just the software we will have to jailbreak/root/flash.
I think The new jailbreak will be released after Mango update
Mango will still not allow native code, and sandboxing every third party application has a huge effect on how easily the OS can be jailbroken. Android and iOS don't do that. That's why they're typically hacked within days of a patch being released. I don't think Mango will change anything for WP7. It will still be hard to jailbreak and even if it does happen Microsoft will have a patch on the way rather quickly and it can be months before a new jailbreak is found.
Being able to jailbreak an OS means you have critical security vulnurabilities in the OS, and I think Microsoft's design is a bit clever in that sense. Yes, an app may have a vulnurability, but it's Jailed...
rouzbehali said:
it will not be harder than iphone os4 jailbreak...so it will take a few weeks.(I hope)
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It's much harder to jailbreak WP7 than iOS or Android.
Microsoft limiting Native Code has made it very difficult, comparatively speaking. The surface area for attack is much much smaller in WP7.
Double Post.
N8ter said:
Mango will still not allow native code, and sandboxing every third party application has a huge effect on how easily the OS can be jailbroken. Android and iOS don't do that. That's why they're typically hacked within days of a patch being released. I don't think Mango will change anything for WP7. It will still be hard to jailbreak and even if it does happen Microsoft will have a patch on the way rather quickly and it can be months before a new jailbreak is found.
Being able to jailbreak an OS means you have critical security vulnurabilities in the OS, and I think Microsoft's design is a bit clever in that sense. Yes, an app may have a vulnurability, but it's Jailed...
It's much harder to jailbreak WP7 than iOS or Android.
Microsoft limiting Native Code has made it very difficult, comparatively speaking. The surface area for attack is much much smaller in WP7.
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Uh no. Jailbreaking the device means that users like us are happy. These so called security vulnerabilities are rarely if ever used by so called hackers and malware authors.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I know this post is coming out a little prematurely, but I couldn't help but notice that the Samsung Focus and the Samsung Captivate are identical phones... not only are they identical but they are running on the same network (modem drivers and such would be the same) ... does anyone know if this port would be possible?
They are not identical phones. Samsung's WP7 devices (the Focus and Omnia7) use Qualcomm's Snapdragon 1GHz processor. The Galaxy S series uses Samsungs 1GHz Hummingbird processor. I'm guessing we would need WP7 drivers before we could port anything. But even with that, I bet there are other hardware differences.
Why is everyone so hyped about WP7? Doesnt anyone remember how lame windows mobile was? Everytime I see someone post about WP7 its like its going to revolutionize smartphones. Theres not much they can do that already isnt being done. WP7....so lame. And it looks like ATT is trying to jump on that ship first and offer a big selection of handsets at launch....go figure. At least they got something right and got one of the best android phones available for now. Its not great out of the box but with all the roms and mods on XDA its starting to show some real potential.
Smallsmx3 said:
Why is everyone so hyped about WP7?.
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Have to disagree here. Windows Phone 7 is a completely different beast than WM 6 or 6.5. You can't compare the two. Different UIs, different use cases, different applications and core technologies. Everyone's hyped because it seems Microsoft might have finally done something right when it comes to mobile devices. Every tech journalist I've heard talk about their preview WP7 devices has been very happy. And as someone who picked an Android phone because I wanted a choice in how I use it, the possibility of WP7 running on it just adds one more choice.
Why on earth would you ever want a car that's not colored black?
Sending a rocket ship to the moon is preposterous!
Nobody will ever need or want more than 1 MB of RAM on their computer.
I love it when people shoot down ideas without thinking it through to all possible conclusions beyond their own.
I wouldn't mind seeing WP7 getting ported some day. Choices are good.
multi-boot Android, WP7, and IOS4.... Sound kind of cool to me.
hashish16 said:
multi-boot Android, WP7, and IOS4.... Sound kind of cool to me.
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Just add a good DOS emulator (I know DOSBox was being ported some day) in that list and I'll be totally excited.
Windows (and the Windows/Microsoft mentality, design-philosophy and school-of-thought) belong on cell phones even less than it belongs on desktop PCs.
For the love of all that is sane and proper, let cell phones be the clean slate which allow us to break free from Microsoft inertia and influence. Let the handful of remaining Microsoft fanboys fondle their WP7 phones and Zunes while the rest of us move forward.
And linux, unix, posix apps belongs on them even less. Oh, wait...
Stop trying to start Fanboy discussions and OS flame wars. Do you run your phone completely in Terminal? Do you expect a WP7 device to have a start button on the screen? Get viruses? Blue Screen?
Each platform has merits and competition is a good thing in almost every case. Choice on a device designed for one platform being able to run another offers bragging rights for the developers and gives more power back to the community.
I'm for the phone that gives me what I want it to do and the freedom to do it.
IOS = locked into the iWorld of iTunes, extreme DRM, and I can only use the device.
Android = the freedom I wanted at a price. Custom flashing ROMS to even get my device to work as intended. But I can do whatever I want with it and don't have to worry about DRM.
WP7 = locked into the M$ world. Again I think it will be highly restrictive on what you can do. I'm sure there will be people (here on XDA) that will hack it.. but it will still be Windows for your phone - and therefore limited.
I'll stick with my single boot Android device - Although it would have that "nerdy cool factor" to have multiple OS's to boot my phone into... I'd rather have one working OS than 2 or 3 that were buggy as hell.
This has been gone over to death, Will it happen?.....Maybe. Will it be soon I dought it. I left WM for Android due to seeing the road M$ was going down with WP7. I have yet to lay Judgment on WP7 till I can get some hands on time with it but to tell the truth I dont see it being an option for me personally as I hot swap SD cards all time due to diff projects, Class, Work, Music...ect. The inability to do so with WP7 is just a deal breaker for me, not to mention no ETA on copy and past. I see WP7 as an early version of IOS, locked in to many ways while they try to get base functions to work right.
Nobody will ever need or want more than 1 MB of RAM on their computer.
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LOL...once upon a time I had a computer with a 2 gig HDD...I told a friend of mine "There's no way I'll EVER fill this up!!"
sremick said:
Windows (and the Windows/Microsoft mentality, design-philosophy and school-of-thought) belong on cell phones even less than it belongs on desktop PCs.
For the love of all that is sane and proper, let cell phones be the clean slate which allow us to break free from Microsoft inertia and influence. Let the handful of remaining Microsoft fanboys fondle their WP7 phones and Zunes while the rest of us move forward.
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Microsoft being the maker of WP7 has almost nothing to do with Microsoft Windows. How much of Mac OS do you see in the iPhone? Just because someone doesn't like Mac does not mean they will hate the iPhone.
I was thinking this too...
Hardware agnostic smartphones... I wrote about it over at my blog TheProfessorNotes
Excerpt: Since the start of the smartphone experience, the hardware and the operating system have been so tightly integrated that one is hard to distinguish from the other. This started as far back as the Springboard Sprint phone hardware attachment for the Handspring Visor, and continues today with the Windows 7 phones, the iPhone and in reality the Android phone. But what if the phones (hardware) and the soul of the phones, the mobile OS’s, could be separated?
emuneee said:
They are not identical phones. Samsung's WP7 devices (the Focus and Omnia7) use Qualcomm's Snapdragon 1GHz processor. The Galaxy S series uses Samsungs 1GHz Hummingbird processor. I'm guessing we would need WP7 drivers before we could port anything. But even with that, I bet there are other hardware differences.
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Did they prove that the Focus has a snapdragon? I knew the Omina7 did, but the last spec sheet i saw said the Focus was unknown. It would still be a pretty darn close match with the graphics being the only potential problem....
Everyone keeps bashing on Microsoft but I see no problem with them? I'm currently on Windows 7 and I can customize the daylights out of it. So, is there really a problem?
Besides, Windows 7 is going to be a serious gaming platform, as this is Microsoft's entry into the mobile gaming world. So...the most powerful phone out...with a gaming OS...sounds like a major win to me!
I'm just a little shocked to hear some people that use Android, meant to enable freedom to the user, say that our Android phones shouldn't be allowed to run other software that's not Android.
That simply baffles the mind.
"I don't like Microsoft, therefore nobody else should be able to run Microsoft products on their Android phones even though it will in no way affect the usage of my own phone."
*sigh*
sschrupp said:
I'm just a little shocked to hear some people that use Android, meant to enable freedom to the user, say that our Android phones shouldn't be allowed to run other software that's not Android.
That simply baffles the mind.
"I don't like Microsoft, therefore nobody else should be able to run Microsoft products on their Android phones even though it will in no way affect the usage of my own phone."
*sigh*
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I'll drink to that
The hardest part would be getting the hummingbird processor to work with the windows 7 platform. I wouldn't mind a dual boot phone though. Android/wm7/ios.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
WP7 OS requires a hardware PVK chip on-board in-order to function at all. That will be the hardest part. Even the ppl hacking HTC HD2 can only get it to operate in DEMO only mode because of the lacking of that chip.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/21/microsoft-to-announce-arm-based-windows-at-ces/
This is good news for all who want alternative os. i love android personally but there are still some things that can only be done in good ol M$ sorry to say.
Ha! I totally called this the other day. An ARM-based windows would be amazing, but it looks like it won't be here for another 2 years. I probably won't even own a g tablet at that time, but this is good news nonetheless.
[sarcasm]
YES!
I can now have the famous "Blue Screen of Death" on my tablet.
[/sarcasm]
acuralegendz said:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/21/microsoft-to-announce-arm-based-windows-at-ces/
This is good news for all who want alternative os. i love android personally but there are still some things that can only be done in good ol M$ sorry to say.
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Sounds like this is aimed squarely at Cortex-A15 due out shortly and targetted at servers. M$ is running scared, crapping their britches as they had dropped support for everything but x86 which would have meant big business for linux and other OSes with broader CPU support...
(Back in the day, M$ used to support PowerPC, ARM, MIPS, etc. but nobody running anything halfway powerful ruined it by running Windows NT on it... so since nobody bought it, M$ dropped support...)
As to things you can "only do" in Windows: That's unlikely as what you probably want to do will only be available in x86 compatible binary form...
wasserkapf said:
[sarcasm]
YES!
I can now have the famous "Blue Screen of Death" on my tablet.
[/sarcasm]
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Lets be fair here. Force closes on android might as well be a blue screen. And most of us still report issues with having to power cycle the Gtab daily to prevent excessive slowdown. Not that apple is no picnic either. I was plagued by crashing apps constantly on my ipod touch when I had it.
I can definitely see windows being useful to use REAL MS office for documents as well as a whole pile of other "apps" that are just stripped down versions of the desktop version with bugginess to show it. Plus, Microsoft's development model is designed around making windows work(or 'work' if you prefer ) on any piece of hardware you through at it that belongs to a supported chipset family. This SHOULD mean much simpler out of the box installs for people adding windows to their tab on their own accord.
Sure, it's not going to be a solution for EVERYONE, but there is definitely good reason to release it.
TheMongol said:
Lets be fair here. Force closes on android might as well be a blue screen. And most of us still report issues with having to power cycle the Gtab daily to prevent excessive slowdown. Not that apple is no picnic either. I was plagued by crashing apps constantly on my ipod touch when I had it.
I can definitely see windows being useful to use REAL MS office for documents as well as a whole pile of other "apps" that are just stripped down versions of the desktop version with bugginess to show it. Plus, Microsoft's development model is designed around making windows work(or 'work' if you prefer ) on any piece of hardware you through at it that belongs to a supported chipset family. This SHOULD mean much simpler out of the box installs for people adding windows to their tab on their own accord.
Sure, it's not going to be a solution for EVERYONE, but there is definitely good reason to release it.
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FCs are NOWHERE near as bad as BSODs... and they're pretty uncommon in a well built Android implementation...
As to apps, I wouldn't get your hopes too high, as I mentioned above this is likely aimed at servers which don't need "Office", and even IF it does show you can bet that there are going to be TONs of apps that just never get ARM versions. I expect this to end up like M$' last experiement in non-x86 arch, i.e. a dismal failure.
M$ is just grasping at straws now as it slowly withers away.
First off, let me say I love AOSP. I also used Mac's exclusively from 1984 to 1991. I'm no fan of apple's closed ecosystem, however. Although I primarily use Windows-based systems, I always maintain a dual-boot with Linux.
I think Microsoft gets bashed way too much these days. The BSOD reference, although funny, isn't really fair. Win7 is a solid operating system and their Mobile7 OS looks very good too.
What really attracts me to AOSP is nearly identical to what got me to switch from apple to PCs (i.e. Microsoft OS) back in 1991--the inherent flexibility of the OS. No doubt Microsoft is in a tough position these days, but I just hate to see them get bashed unfairly--they've done a LOT of stuff right, and continue to do innovative stuff (Kinect, Mobile7).
zerozed99 said:
First off, let me say I love AOSP. I also used Mac's exclusively from 1984 to 1991. I'm no fan of apple's closed ecosystem, however. Although I primarily use Windows-based systems, I always maintain a dual-boot with Linux.
I think Microsoft gets bashed way too much these days. The BSOD reference, although funny, isn't really fair. Win7 is a solid operating system and their Mobile7 OS looks very good too.
What really attracts me to AOSP is nearly identical to what got me to switch from apple to PCs (i.e. Microsoft OS) back in 1991--the inherent flexibility of the OS. No doubt Microsoft is in a tough position these days, but I just hate to see them get bashed unfairly--they've done a LOT of stuff right, and continue to do innovative stuff (Kinect, Mobile7).
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M$ is getting what they deserve.
I'll admit that Windows 7 is much better than Vista, but my only use for Windows is for games that won't run under wine.
BSOD: Android equivalent would actually be a kernel panic...
cutterjohn said:
FCs are NOWHERE near as bad as BSODs... and they're pretty uncommon in a well built Android implementation...
As to apps, I wouldn't get your hopes too high, as I mentioned above this is likely aimed at servers which don't need "Office", and even IF it does show you can bet that there are going to be TONs of apps that just never get ARM versions. I expect this to end up like M$' last experiement in non-x86 arch, i.e. a dismal failure.
M$ is just grasping at straws now as it slowly withers away.
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Quite frankly, BSOD is often just as bad as a FC for me. For me at least, when something force closes the whole system is starting to act slow and choppy. I end up having to reboot anyway.
I find many user experience to be subjective as far as BSOD goes anyway. Honestly, I can count on two hands the number of times I have had a BSOD since I stopped running win98(with the exception being when I had bad ram). Half of these were do to me testing win7& vista release candidates. The rest were due to my own errors with raid drivers.
I'm curious to see what happens with this initiative though. It is difficult to imagine where exactly they will draw the line between Windows Mobile and windows "lite" or whatever they call the new version. I wouldn't be surprised if they get in over their heads and change their development path to the likes of apple/android and expand the mobile platform to these "light" computer architectures.
At the end of the day, I dont think I want a tablet that needs a virus scanner
I just read this article, a good eye opener for those craving for ICS
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394929,00.asp
Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right. Compared to the grinding misery of the Android non-update schedule, Microsoft's transition from Windows Phone 7 to Mango is going pretty smoothly.
Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different OEMs and get its software approved by carriers. Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different form factors—phones with physical keyboards and without, for instance.
Yes, Apple gets it right too, but that's a little boring; Apple has only one OEM (itself) and a handful of models, so it's much easier to push out updates to iPhones and iPads.
Earlier this year, Google and its OEMs formed a consortium to pledge to deliver prompt updates, but absolutely zero concrete work has come out of that group. Every single U.S. Windows Phone will update to Mango within weeks. Two-year-old iPhones can get iOS 5. But owners of Android phones and tablets just a few months old have no clue when, or whether their gadgets will get Ice Cream Sandwich (or for that matter, sometimes still even Gingerbread.)
Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset, and doesn't allow manufacturers to skin the OS. I don't want to see Google take on the first requirement, as competition between chip manufacturers has been a major force driving Android's advances. But even if one chipset at a time got Android updates, it would still be a major step forward.
If manufacturer skins are really stopping updates, it may finally be time for Google to find a way to punish OEMs that can't keep up with the pace of change. Google likes to trumpet its openy-ness, but the company has always blessed and punished OEMs by giving or withholding the Android Market and Gmail apps that are necessary to have a decent Android device. Google needs to set a time limit for OEMs to implement changes.
Ice Cream Sandwich looks great. So when can we get it, how can we find apps for it, and how can app developers address the widest variety of Android devices easily? That's what Google needs to answer clearly and concisely.
and it made me think alot.
I'm an android fan, but i feel this author's opinion is quite true.
whats the point of having a good and new OS but its just available on a over priced nexus phone?
android updates are slow (i mean around 6 months or probably never). and silly manufacturers are further delaying it by their custom UI. This is just sad sad news for android.
i better stop reading news about ICS, just to make myself less miserable.
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
I agree, that's probably the biggest stumbling block of Android. When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
One thing though, Microsoft controls the hardware specs of WP7 phones very closely. Sure there's differences here and there, but not as far reaching as a Galaxy 3 vs a Galaxy S2.
Well, heres my opinion about this subject:
No, it will not make things worst, i have been using android since donut with an HTC Magic, from which i had tried 2.1 and 2.2. Never resourcing from HTC's official releases.
I'll put it simple, for someone who needs a smartphone, almost every verion of android will do, you get to manage emails on the go, music, photos, market+apps, you get the point.
Now for someone that takes "what version of android i'm running" into consideration, there are solutions to run the latest. Me for example, i do take it into consideration, and i'm running 2.3.5 on a LG2X which only has 2.2 officially.
If this was real reality, what about X86 OS's? i mean, win3.1, win95, win98, win98ME, win2K, winXP, winVISTA, win7 and now win8... And im only talking about microsoft.
Theres no such thing has fragmentation. As for the development problems regarding which target android version will "I" develop to. Cmon, theres good coding or bad coding. OFC theres some API's that are only available since version X of the android version, but still, good coding would prevent the use of this API even if it means having less functionality.
I believe android is in the right track, ICS looks to have some nice improvements, although the main development i saw was design ("Make me awesome"), i believe there has been some improvements regarding stability+smoothness+usability.
Next stop is: "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right." Wait a second, google has made the most successful mobile OS and it needs to look to Microsoft for *whatever*?
"Yes, Apple gets it right too" No! if in Sascha's opinion Fragmentation is a problem, Apple is having the same issue, but it is coming later than android, mainly due to the 23454345672384 OEM's android has versus the 1 OEM Apple has! I mean, 1 oem, 1 OS = iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPod Touch Xgen, iPad, iPad 2.. FFS! fragmentation? a single oem has made more devices than most android OEM's has! (not true, but quite)
[EDIT] Sorry im berserking.
"Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset" if this was done in the Android habitat, there would be no sense in making different versions, varying prices, and so on. Fragmentation is good in some aspects, one of them being the different prices devices can get.
As for the version and updates problem, how about attacking the OEM's itself instead of Google? Since google is the main "victim" of this article, google has made all it can do to get it "corrected" (if this is a problem) and it even does not own the OEM's companies! All phones launched by google have had some nice updates, keeping it with the most recent OS all the time. (Yes i'm talking about the nexus lineup, Nexus One is 2 years old, so i guess it will not get ICS, still iphone 2G will not get iOS 5 neither.)
[EDIT2] Now i'm haywire.
Just take a look at the article comments, the writer ends up having no arguments. FFS He's calling WP7 an example for updates! saying that the OS provider has the obligation the get OEM's in line...NO! thats the good thing about Android, it is free, free to use, and free to transform. Every OEM is responsible for what they do with the devices they sell, and the OS they ship it with.
Thats like saying that my Dinossaur pc doesn't run windows 7 and call it Microsoft's fault, because my PC only have 96MB of Ram! Isn't that almost Apple-fanboy talk? The os provider must develop the HW for it to run properly.
Logi_Ca1 said:
When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
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That is true, except for one thing. There is a response.
If you want iOS, you have the choice of black or white. If you want Android then you have the choice of hundreds of different devices. It's a trade-off that I am more than happy with. I prefer choice over regular updates, especially when the OS is already good enough anyway.
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
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drelite08 said:
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
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I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs. Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
Sorry but there's no apple fanboy like Joshua Toposlky, he is the only one in the world (sarcasm =P) that can see the bright side of both sides of the war.
Archer said:
I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs.
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Thats why i did say that for a smartphone user, every android version will sufice.
Archer said:
Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
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This is almost not noticeable in the android environment because of the OEM's, not google's fault
[EDIT] OMFG! Now this is stupid, this is SO STUPID! Check this out, he makes a table of the new features that the new iOS can do, an compares it to other OS's... so lets start:
Location Based Reminders: Only iOS
Quick Camera Acess: iOS and WP7
Advanced Photo Editing tools: Only iOS
Advanced Voice Commands: Only iOS
My answer to this is: I am not going to open another URL coming from PCmag
The way Android works is that Google do not have that much control over it after the OS is designed, it gets open-sourced then it is down to each individual OEM to build a rom and get their carrier partners to approve it.
Google have deliberately chosen to not do it the more formal way as it will defeat the entire original purpose that android had.
Obviously there is more complicated steps in the process when it comes to the licencing of Gapps....
However google and the other major partners have expressed their wish to reduce fragmentation and move to ICS as soon as possible, but that article was right in that we have not been given any strict words. However any phone currently running android 2.3 and is still getting worked on (i.e. not EOL) should receive an ICS update. I know that samsung are working on very quick timetables and the SGS2 rom should be out very quickly, but based on the past experience companies like HTC may take a very long time.
in WP7 Microsoft give a rom to the OEMS to do very minor tweaks, this is then approved and released.
I think what people are missing
Here guys is the fact that android os is the only open source os out of three three majors!
This means that u don't really need the oems to have latest up to date os version. As we can c clearly in the case of cynogenmod project. Moreover, the android build it's reputation on being the most comprehensive os with most capabilities to consume the most of the hardware. This is a big plus for everybody.
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Ray1 said:
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
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I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
svceon said:
I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
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I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
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Click to collapse
Ray1, i'm not upset, don't get me wrong =P i just thought you were saying that you wanted ICS now, and that you were frustraded that you didn't had. i'm only upset by PCMAG by it's acumulated stupidity.
As for the updates, there are a lot of 2.3.4/5 roms in the SGSII development sub-forum, why dont you try to flash one?
Another thing about firmware and OEM's updates:
When i buy a car, i dont expect it to be upgraded when the next generation of engines are released. When i buy a car i bought it because i needed it or i wanted it as it was being sold.
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
linkin85 said:
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
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This doesn't make a lot of sense
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no Google talk video call in 2.3.4 nor 2.3.5..
the fact that the author wrote "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right" made him lose any ounce of credibility that he had (if he had any to begin with.)
they released WP 7 without half of the proven needs on a smartphone (eg. cut and paste), released an "update" which was basically a primer for your phone to be able to OTA update when the new "patch" was released. and it didn't even adress the issues that had people *****ing about the phone. Mango was promised to be released last year, and it's already october 2011. I got rid of my windows phone within 3 months of buying on.
so what if apple releases iOS 5 to all iphone users? half of them probably doesn't even know what's on the new OS. the other half are still marvelling over siri as some technological breakthrough. it has got to be the most boring OS i've seen. everyone holding an iOS phone/tablet/ipod looks the same as the other person holding it. oh great, you can change the wallpaper...whoopdiedoo...and buy a 200 dollar case for it! wowie.
i was a loyal windows mobile user for many many years, having used them since O2 still manufactured awesome products. I loved it for how much I could customize it to suit how I'd like it to be. I'm not paying 1000 bucks and have the company tell me how I should want it to look. I'm sorry, but a homescreen with 16 icons on it just doesn't look appealing to me. I have been blown away by what the android OS can do.
how ICS release can be bad for android users baffles me. I bet the author was wetting himself when apple launched the white iphone.
This ''issue'' can be avoided by installing CM7. This way your phone is like a nexus and has the latest updates.
Umm this isn't really google's fault by any means; whether or not ICS comes to our devices is up to the manufacturers, and it's is up to us as consumers to let them know that we don't want a customized UI, but standard android instead.
Vote with your wallets and send manufacturers complaint letters and you shall have what you wish for. Just look at the locked boot loaders issue as an example of what can be done when enough people complain and commit to a cause.
1) don't rely on Official Roms all the time, plenty of leaks for 2.3.4 and 2.3.5 have surfaced
2) Just because you are not yet on 2.3.4 doesn't mean you won't get ICS, you don't have to go up every single OS step in order...
Again Android liberty. You can pick the OEM. If you want the fastest update buy a nexus. Slower OEMs will sell lesser product in the future. And I didn't get the idea of the article. Is limiting the OSs with resolution and chips a good thing? If so what are we doing here?
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