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I can't believe I'm saying this, but the iPhone is amazing (Long post)

I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?

I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.

Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.

I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.

thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
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Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
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Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
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Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.

I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V

8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
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Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good

vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?

The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4

This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.

jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
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Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?

poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
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Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.

crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
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Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.

Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.

new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.

nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
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Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.

Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V

My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!

vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.

8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.

Everything is Android these days

Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?

One thing will decide, microsoft wp7 ads.
sent from my x10i that is banging for a 2.1 upgrade. ...

WM continues
I wouldn´t worry for that, despite Android is now "in fashion" as soon as WP7 arrives will happen the same
I am also looking forward WP7 I´m sure it will be a funny one too

davidstre said:
Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont worry if your WP7 device is lacking in WP development, Im sure there will be several ways and ROMs to run Android on it

haha, i dont want to run android on it!!!!!!!
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows

Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.

SkelmecH said:
Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.

hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.

davidstre said:
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows
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Click to collapse
Same here
Despite I´m testing droid on my Leo

davidstre said:
hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.

The rumored specs for the HD3 has me very interested in WP7. 4.5" 1280x800 screen, 1.5ghz dual core, 1gb ram, 32gb mem. Depends on the Apps too. I really like the Android market more so than what WinMo has offered. I'm a diehard WinMo user, but after running Android on my HD2.... I've found myself using WinMo less and less and less.
edit: Does WP7 even allow 1280x800 screen res? hmm.

If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!

gio300zx said:
If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen and Halleluiah!

maxpower097 said:
WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno, Android, even un-rooted seems pretty Open, i never had a problem with it being "Locked Down"

Could be interesting stuff between the release of Android 3.0 and WM7...

boborone said:
I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its important for everyone to know these 3 thing:
-WP7 will be sending ota updates to the phone directely from microsoft. these updates will improve performance in some cases, and add features in other cases. microsofts goal is to bypass the carrier and avoid all of the bs that comes with carriers.
- keeping this in mind, microsoft has two major updates scheduled ALREADY for release within the the first few months of the phones release. one update is the addition of copy and paste, the other is suppose to have something to do with multi tasking
-they intentionally left copy and paste out of launch so they could distribute it in an ota update.
the multitasking issue isnt a bad thing actually. you can run as many native apps as you want at the same time, you just cant run multiple third party apps at the same time. HOWEVER, lets say i am running a third party app (app1) then lets say i launch a second third party app (app2) app1's state will be saved and placed in the background on "pause" if you will, while app2 runs. if i relaunch app1 its last known state will be restored and app2 will go into pause.

Your opinions on ALL OSes

Ok, basically my wife is looking into a new phone and our options are more or less limitless, she just wants advantages and disadvantages of each OS. She's not picky and doesn't always need the most popular OS, she wants form, factor, and function. I am looking for a phone that will take a sim so trying to avoid Verizon and Sprint phones. Heres my opinions on the ones I can think up.
iOS-I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole personally but regardless of my personal feelings if it's jailbroken it's not actually a terrible OS just a bit bland. The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
Android- Good but often laggy even with a snapdragon. The UI customization is nice but they're killing themselves not allowing a GPU accelerated UI. I have a Dell Streak for my "fun phone" and though I love it it does seem more appealing to have a phone that "just works" for her. I dont think android will be quite as long-lived though its doing well so far. How can one expect a UI to have devoted developers when you can get anything you want free.
Windows phone 7- Perfect business device, still in what seems almost an open beta phase and lacking a lot of basic features. More promise than any other OS but for the time being it's not living up to the hype.
BadaOS-Support? What support? plays out like a bad WebOS ripoff
Blackberry-Just the most boring thing in the world. Aside from battery life I cannot seem to realize how this OS sells well outside of the old people who dont really know how to use a phone but want something high end...
WebOS- It had it's day in the spotlight and that didn't last too long... I mean its functional but feels almost dirty compared to the more modern OSes
WM6.5- Great OS for someone who wants to devote hours and hours and hours to customizing it to be the most functional OS. Sadly the only device worth having thats wm6.5 anymore is the LEO/HD2.
These are all opinions of mine, she just wants to know the opinion of others. Thanks for your input.

What is her level of technical expertise?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Moderate, a gaming device would be great but something with a pleasant UI is more appealing

If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.

joeearl13 said:
If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thank you for your reply my wife still wants WP7 but I keep trying to tell her that even though I use it it could take time to work the kinks out. She is considering android but samsung devices are hard to go with especially the galaxy S devices due to the buffer overrun issues. I think we've more or less narrowed it down to those two its just hard to pick which though she is in love with the netflix integration. I think its between the mytouch 4g and the samsung focus

The MT4G is a fantastic device. I'm sure she'd have more fun with it than WP7 and its limited options.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Now when you say limited options what do you mean? I only ask because I recently converted to windows phone 7 after tinkering with android for 2 years and never once having something that felt 'complete.' Also is there any site that I can make one of those phone histories on or do I have to use paint?

WM: The most tested OS good and stable for business, thousands of apps, tweaks, themes, etc a lot of knowledge.
Android: Nice to play with as all is new and free but I got easily bored
WP7: So new, needs more time to get mature. Too closed similar to apple

The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they aren't. The 2g is stuck on Ios 3.2, while the Iphone 4 is on 4.2. Plus the hardware in the Iphone 4 is just about as fast as Snapdragon, and cortex. Hell, the A4 is a Cortex A8.
Android- I like Android a lot, but some of the manufactures don't take it as seriously as I like, and some manufactures are terrible with updates.(Samsung) And the UI isn't hardware accelerated AFAIK. But very easy to customize, I like that. Manufactures can make Android great, or bad.(Motorola, I'm talking to you with your Motoblur crap)
Ios- I like Ios too, but there are a few issues with it. AT&T is the big one, and the second issue because of that is limited data. I can't say that it's a bad thing that to make it useful to my standards, you have to jailbreak it because every Android phone I've had I've rooted for it to work great. I wish Apple would come out with an Iphone with a screen bigger than 3.7inch. And I wish Steve would not have so much hatred towards Adobe, because that means no real flash for Iphone while it's fully capable of it. Frash is okay for the Iphone, but real flash would be better.
BB Os- I'll tell you the same thing I tell people I sell these to. Blackberry is a business phone, so don't expect the fun and colorful UI you see in other OSes. It is very simple to use though, but RIM is stuck on hardware that was released almost 2 years ago. The Pre is originally clocked at 600 mhz like the Droid, the chip inside the Torch which is the newest Blackberry is only at 624 mhz, like the Storm, the Storm 2, the Bold, etc etc. Also, Blackberry does not like to update their phones to the current OS, despite most of the phones having the same specs. It is what it is.
Windows Mobile 6.5- Not bad, but not great. A nice business OS though.
Windows Phone 7- I like it a lot, but no flash support right now is a killer. I don't mind it not having things like bluetooth transfer since I really don't use it, but I would like copy and paste. Also they need to hurry up and expand to different carriers! D:
Symbian- Personally I never used it, but people say it is very versatile.
Webos- I like Webos a lot, I really do. But there simply isn't enough support behind it from developers, which means a huge lack of apps compared to Android and Ios. The big thing that kills me about it, is the fact that the Pre only has a 3inch screen, even the Pre 2 has a 3inch screen despite having specs that can be compared to the Droid 2!
Bada- Samsung, so I can't expect too much from it. I haven't tried it though, and I really don't want to.

What kind of user is your wife? If she wants a phone that does games, txt, email etc... then you have to take into consideration what is the best at these?
IOS even with it's limitations is probably the most "polished" out there. Has a huge base of followers, tons of apps, and it does work out of the box. Sure it's bland in its interface and your locked in with AT&T and the iWorld of Apple. Not to mention that you can't do anything with the hardware itself.
Android: Catching up to Apple - but still not the "iPhone killer" - yet. I personally love Android - and with enough tweaking I don't experience lag on my Captivate. But.. I would highly suggest NOT getting a Galaxy S phone. Too many issues with the devices to merit getting. I would go with an HTC.
Win Mobile 7: Although this looks promising.. if I wanted a boring interface and all the junk that goes with the OS? I'd have an iPhone. And not to mention it's still in its infancy - so who knows if it will go the way of the Do Do bird?

Should also mention about Android, if she gets an Android phone but doesn't root it, then she'll have to deal with all the bloatware the carriers put on the phone.

Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.

For the simple love of sharing!!!
As it have been done for many years in WM
z33dev33l said:
Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Alternate world without Android

Say that android was never released (or discontinued after initial release as a failure)
What do you think would be
(*) Outcome of the mobile world?
(*) what phone you'd be using?
I think, if Android ceased to exist, ill still be on old Windows Mobile.
Microsoft wouldnt have felt to need to update to WP7 as they had no need to compete with anyone apart from apple.
So as a result WP7 ceases to exist
I think apple would not have introduced multitasking or the fancy new features in their iPhones. They have no one to compete with
I don't think dual core would be high end (1ghz would be high end even in 2012, and would be ground breaking news)
I don't think apple will have released an ipad. They wouldnt need to compete.
I think I would still be using a WM phone if android didn't exist, and have no tablet...
HTC would still be a unknown company that no one has heard of, and they produce phones for carriers
XDA site wont be as popular or well known as now.
The mobile world would still be a few steps behind
More to come ..
List what you think!
-------------------------------
Sent from my HTC Desire S

PalmOS will still be dominating the market strong
Apple will have gone bankrupt, as Microsoft couldn't afford to buy out Apple's doomed stock, due Microsoft own low sales of Windows CE v10.1
PalmOS would have been v15.6 by now with new improved GUI and Eye pupil control to select & run Apps from the phone, with voice dictation a voice command perfected even for people with heavy accent
while still keeping the good old fashioned pen, for those that likes to hand write on the screen as before
PalmOS has become open source, and old Apps are still backward compatible with the latest PalmOS
making the life of Doctors and tons of other professional easier without having to wait for new Apps releases to work on the new OS

Without Android I think Apple would be very dominant in the cell phone market.
I don't think there would be many (or nearly as many) lawsuits being thrown around b/c Apple wouldn't feel threatened.
I don't think the iPhone would really be changed as much though. Apple has a very strong almost cult following that will shell out the money every year for a new device so I don't think they really need to succumb to the trends of the market. If anything I agree they wouldn't have multitasking and probably no dual core processor.
Sadly I'd probably own an iPhone

What would happen if no one ever created bread?!

ihellion said:
What would happen if no one ever created bread?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can haz no sammiches?

ihellion said:
What would happen if no one ever created bread?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plenty of cultures don't make use of bread.
If there was no Android, I'd probably be using an iPhone.

Etrick said:
I can haz no sammiches?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No PB&J, the humanities!
bleach168 said:
Plenty of cultures don't make use of bread.
If there was no Android, I'd probably be using an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plenty of cultures don't have power, I think we'd be OK, and people would have innovated another type of smart phone OS. I think a better question is "What has Android done to change the market, and maybe the world?"

Windows Phone would be around but be different in Name/Look... iOS wouldn't be as rushed to add MMS and so on.. SO it would look the same (surprise surprise) but with some missing features. Windows Mobile OS would probably continue the look of 6.5 with overall changes to compete with iOS...
Overall Android caused a lot of thinking for both Apple and Microsoft ... If only we can see into a world like that... Now im curious

Are Lumia 800 Good ?

I plan to buy a new phone, i am using S2 right now, but i want one more phone , so i will like to hear from you all suggestion about the Lumia 800 is worthy or not??
THX

Owned an S2 myself... After using the lumia 800 everything else just seems slower and lesser.

z33dev33l said:
Owned an S2 myself... After using the lumia 800 everything else just seems slower and lesser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Troll alert.
The Lumia 800 is a beautiful phone, but still very limited when it comes to apps and features when compared to the SGS2.

Toss3 said:
Troll alert.
The Lumia 800 is a beautiful phone, but still very limited when it comes to apps and features when compared to the SGS2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think there is a big Potential in apps for window phone in future !!

Windows phone is far from limited in terms of apps. If you want live wallpapers and an aesthetic clash, go android. I prefer a visually appealing OS to having a wallpaper that moves. Plus, there's still not an android phone that runs as fluid as a wp7 device. It doesn't matter how many cores they throw at it.

z33dev33l, i was trolling in that google/motorola vs apple thread, and i came across you. in all honesty, i had never considered a windows phone only because i havent seen windows market/push them hard (yet...) and i wasnt sure if they would be around for long. perhaps that's just me being naive, because seeing the decline of companies like RIM does put the ebb/flow of the cellphone business a little more into perspective. and i do believe windows are good phones (mainly from user reviews on various sites.) so, the possibility of windows picking-up market share is more of a reality. what are your thoughts on microsoft's long-term commitment in the cellular arena?

Android is open source. You can play xbox games on your android phone using the ONLIVE app.
You also get custom roms on android everything else windows doesn't
Before wen i was un educated i pursuaded my friend to get a windows phone but then i got a android phone and he was so jealous
OMG. Counter Strike On Android! http://cs-portable.net/

atljatl said:
z33dev33l, i was trolling in that google/motorola vs apple thread, and i came across you. in all honesty, i had never considered a windows phone only because i havent seen windows market/push them hard (yet...) and i wasnt sure if they would be around for long. perhaps that's just me being naive, because seeing the decline of companies like RIM does put the ebb/flow of the cellphone business a little more into perspective. and i do believe windows are good phones (mainly from user reviews on various sites.) so, the possibility of windows picking-up market share is more of a reality. what are your thoughts on microsoft's long-term commitment in the cellular arena?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, Microsoft sucks at pushing their products. They are a software company primarily for computers so they're used to the OEMs pushing for them. With companies like Nokia, that's an excellent plan because Nokia is everything a cellular company should be. Unfortunately, the other OEM's are more concerned with marketing the size of your processor over the software.
MattyOnXperiaX10 said:
Android is open source. You can play xbox games on your android phone using the ONLIVE app.
You also get custom roms on android everything else windows doesn't
Before wen i was un educated i pursuaded my friend to get a windows phone but then i got a android phone and he was so jealous
OMG. Counter Strike On Android! http://cs-portable.net/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xbox with onlive is hardly comparable to true XBL integration, wp7 already takes care of what custom roms are meant to achieve without the need for flashing, it runs smoother and lasts much longer on the same battery. I find the part about your education prompting your choice to be largely ironic given your post quality and your friend is fortunate.

z33dev33l said:
Honestly, Microsoft sucks at pushing their products. They are a software company primarily for computers so they're used to the OEMs pushing for them. With companies like Nokia, that's an excellent plan because Nokia is everything a cellular company should be. Unfortunately, the other OEM's are more concerned with marketing the size of your processor over the software.
xbox with onlive is hardly comparable to true XBL integration, wp7 already takes care of what custom roms are meant to achieve without the need for flashing, it runs smoother and lasts much longer on the same battery. I find the part about your education prompting your choice to be largely ironic given your post quality and your friend is fortunate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay let me explain again. Android is open source, so for many, you are able to flash different roms and totally Re_Arrange.
On windows its totally boring, same look all the time.
Second, new android phones have become much faster and battery life has dramatically improved considering all the things you can do on android and all the things people run on their phone.
(Droid razr maxx is an example, 2x the battery life of any windows phone)
My third point is the low amount of apps windows phones have, its such a boring market place with nothing on it, you dont get to experiance the games that android users can
Fourth point, us android users can do virtually anything with our phone, we can run windows xp, we can get a home launcher that is the same as windows 7/ apple or anything else.
Phones like the nokia lumia are such bad value for money because the phone has virtually nothing. It has nothing on android or apple.
People say windows operating system is fast/ well not anymore, us android users are now on dual and quad core so get of your hateraid
OMG. Counter Strike On Android! http://cs-portable.net/

I was playing counter strike from my dual core android phone, you cant do that on a windows phone.
I can download all my songs of my phone on android(for free but im not gonna tell u where)
I was playing saints row 3 on onlive and dirt 3 which is a little fun experiance that no other experiance that i can get that windows cant.
I have loads of apps to choose from /windows doesnt.
I basically theres nothing windows is fast at really
OMG. Counter Strike On Android! http://cs-portable.net/

z33dev33l said:
Honestly, Microsoft sucks at pushing their products. xbox with onlive is hardly comparable to true XBL integration, wp7 already takes care of what custom roms are meant to achieve without the need for flashing, it runs smoother and lasts much longer on the same battery. I find the part about your education prompting your choice to be largely ironic given your post quality and your friend is fortunate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find that your argument is flawed somewhat. Android users who frequent these forums tend to stay with Android because they enjoy tinkering with their phones. Something that is simply not possible on WP7. We dont care about XBL integration, we care about custom roms and overclocking...

johnston9234 said:
I find that your argument is flawed somewhat. Android users who frequent these forums tend to stay with Android because they enjoy tinkering with their phones. Something that is simply not possible on WP7. We dont care about XBL integration, we care about custom roms and overclocking...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ Windows Phone users do flash custom roms. I flashed my hd7 all the time, I had to unlock it and flash it just to change the search provider from Bing.
On Android I use Spark 360 for XBL integration.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

MattyOnXperiaX10 said:
I was playing counter strike from my dual core android phone, you cant do that on a windows phone.
I can download all my songs of my phone on android(for free but im not gonna tell u where)
I was playing saints row 3 on onlive and dirt 3 which is a little fun experiance that no other experiance that i can get that windows cant.
I have loads of apps to choose from /windows doesnt.
I basically theres nothing windows is fast at really
OMG. Counter Strike On Android! http://cs-portable.net/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great !! android lover !!

I can just agree with z33dev33l . WP is just smoother and the whole system is more fluid even with one core. Yes you cant modify it the way you can do that with android, but I dont think that you need to. I had a Radar before my Nexus S and I regretted swaping it for the Nexus S because on single core android isnt the smoothest. A few days ago I ve switched back to an HD7 and I love it.
I think you wont regret buying one WP7 device, if you like the Metro style. The Lumia 800 is good but maybe after the S2 the screen is smaller a bit.
BTW: you have the opportunity to flash a custom rom for some WP7 devices (eg.:HD7, but not easy like on android) but you dont need to because its good as it is.

You must haven't tried ICS? It pawns Mango in every way except email. Speed and fluidity.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

I love android phone..

They both have their pros and cons.
I love both OS' but visually and fluid performance, I'd go with WP7. Everything else, Android.
*Disclaimer* My opinion does not speak for the rest of the individuals on this forum.

vetvito said:
You must haven't tried ICS? It pawns Mango in every way except email. Speed and fluidity.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how was the battery drain in ICS ? i heard the nova launcher is a issue of battery drain also ?!

If you want hardware, get Lumia.
If you want software, get Android.

marcosius said:
If you want hardware, get Lumia.
If you want software, get Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said that backwards.
Most of these posts are just comical, vetvito was, as usual a riot.
Matty, you've clearly never used or even read anything about WP7. Blind arguments are the funniest.