Just wondering people's thoughts here. With some of the limits Windows Phone 7 will have, like file access or installing your own apps, how long do you think these features will take to open up.
I'm guessing under 6 months but, that's just me.
you ?
No way to tell exactly until someone gets the final release in their hands, until then it's all speculations.
As many geeks as there are on xda forums im not worried. A week or two maybe.
A month or there about...after the final release
Few months after the final release of wm7 officially
One thing is for sure, it will be jailbroken and hopefully microsoft will realize that the users want those features, but I'm not to sure about the latter thing.
Has the most recent Zune been broken yet? I know versions 1 and 2 were, but I think since version 3 going forward no one has been able to hack it. So WP7 may be locked down pretty tight.
I'm sure there will be way more people trying to break WP7 then there are Zune, but it may be tough.
TriAxisFL said:
Has the most recent Zune been broken yet? I know versions 1 and 2 were, but I think since version 3 going forward no one has been able to hack it. So WP7 may be locked down pretty tight.
I'm sure there will be way more people trying to break WP7 then there are Zune, but it may be tough.
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I do believe they got native code running on it. Not full rom flashing or anything but better than nothing.
The big difference between WP7 and Zune is the hardware ecosystem. Zune is tightly controlled by Microsoft; they're able to keep everything secret and put security controls on the boot loader and other stuff. This wouldn't be feasible on WP7 as they have to provide BSPs and other technical details and bits to OEMs. Also, it has to work on a much wider range of hardware that Microsoft can't control so there's less hardware security. Lastly, the platform as a whole is much more open. OEMs can write native code (albeit still in controlled manners) and it's much easier for 3rd party devs to make apps available to users. So basically this leads them to be left with a platform that is inherently less secure. I'm sure they have some tricks up their sleeves, particularly with digital signatures, so we shall see.
it will not be harder than iphone os4 jailbreak...so it will take a few weeks.(I hope)
^ that's one phone. WP7 will have many with different hurdles of their own.
Why is everyone predicting weeks?
Has anyone heard of a dev device being successfully 'jailbroken'? There's almost 10k phones that are probably in the hands of the same people that are likely to jailbreak the thing in the 1st place. I know it's not final software or hardware, but I can't see either being vastly different.
If it were weeks a dev device would have been broken by now.
gom99 said:
Why is everyone predicting weeks?
Has anyone heard of a dev device being successfully 'jailbroken'? There's almost 10k phones that are probably in the hands of the same people that are likely to jailbreak the thing in the 1st place. I know it's not final software or hardware, but I can't see either being vastly different.
If it were weeks a dev device would have been broken by now.
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Not defending the "weeks" vote but it is very possible that someone has done it but is just keeping it close to the vest so that MS won't patch it before devices are even available.
RustyGrom said:
Not defending the "weeks" vote but it is very possible that someone has done it but is just keeping it close to the vest so that MS won't patch it before devices are even available.
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could be true, I've heard speculation that it wouldn't be much different than unlocking 6.5
sprinttouch666 said:
could be true, I've heard speculation that it wouldn't be much different than unlocking 6.5
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Possibly, but MS seem to be going to greater lengths to make it harder for people to tamper with the phone. For example ROM cooking is probably made more difficult..each device is given a certificate, if that certificate isn't present the device will not work.
RustyGrom said:
Also, it has to work on a much wider range of hardware that Microsoft can't control so there's less hardware security.
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All hardware is pre-ordered HTC,LG etc are just designing unique chassis. It's just the software we will have to jailbreak/root/flash.
I think The new jailbreak will be released after Mango update
Mango will still not allow native code, and sandboxing every third party application has a huge effect on how easily the OS can be jailbroken. Android and iOS don't do that. That's why they're typically hacked within days of a patch being released. I don't think Mango will change anything for WP7. It will still be hard to jailbreak and even if it does happen Microsoft will have a patch on the way rather quickly and it can be months before a new jailbreak is found.
Being able to jailbreak an OS means you have critical security vulnurabilities in the OS, and I think Microsoft's design is a bit clever in that sense. Yes, an app may have a vulnurability, but it's Jailed...
rouzbehali said:
it will not be harder than iphone os4 jailbreak...so it will take a few weeks.(I hope)
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It's much harder to jailbreak WP7 than iOS or Android.
Microsoft limiting Native Code has made it very difficult, comparatively speaking. The surface area for attack is much much smaller in WP7.
Double Post.
N8ter said:
Mango will still not allow native code, and sandboxing every third party application has a huge effect on how easily the OS can be jailbroken. Android and iOS don't do that. That's why they're typically hacked within days of a patch being released. I don't think Mango will change anything for WP7. It will still be hard to jailbreak and even if it does happen Microsoft will have a patch on the way rather quickly and it can be months before a new jailbreak is found.
Being able to jailbreak an OS means you have critical security vulnurabilities in the OS, and I think Microsoft's design is a bit clever in that sense. Yes, an app may have a vulnurability, but it's Jailed...
It's much harder to jailbreak WP7 than iOS or Android.
Microsoft limiting Native Code has made it very difficult, comparatively speaking. The surface area for attack is much much smaller in WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh no. Jailbreaking the device means that users like us are happy. These so called security vulnerabilities are rarely if ever used by so called hackers and malware authors.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Related
Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?
One thing will decide, microsoft wp7 ads.
sent from my x10i that is banging for a 2.1 upgrade. ...
WM continues
I wouldn´t worry for that, despite Android is now "in fashion" as soon as WP7 arrives will happen the same
I am also looking forward WP7 I´m sure it will be a funny one too
davidstre said:
Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?
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Click to collapse
Dont worry if your WP7 device is lacking in WP development, Im sure there will be several ways and ROMs to run Android on it
haha, i dont want to run android on it!!!!!!!
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows
Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.
SkelmecH said:
Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.
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WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.
hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.
davidstre said:
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows
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Same here
Despite I´m testing droid on my Leo
davidstre said:
hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.
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I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.
The rumored specs for the HD3 has me very interested in WP7. 4.5" 1280x800 screen, 1.5ghz dual core, 1gb ram, 32gb mem. Depends on the Apps too. I really like the Android market more so than what WinMo has offered. I'm a diehard WinMo user, but after running Android on my HD2.... I've found myself using WinMo less and less and less.
edit: Does WP7 even allow 1280x800 screen res? hmm.
If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!
gio300zx said:
If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen and Halleluiah!
maxpower097 said:
WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno, Android, even un-rooted seems pretty Open, i never had a problem with it being "Locked Down"
Could be interesting stuff between the release of Android 3.0 and WM7...
boborone said:
I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its important for everyone to know these 3 thing:
-WP7 will be sending ota updates to the phone directely from microsoft. these updates will improve performance in some cases, and add features in other cases. microsofts goal is to bypass the carrier and avoid all of the bs that comes with carriers.
- keeping this in mind, microsoft has two major updates scheduled ALREADY for release within the the first few months of the phones release. one update is the addition of copy and paste, the other is suppose to have something to do with multi tasking
-they intentionally left copy and paste out of launch so they could distribute it in an ota update.
the multitasking issue isnt a bad thing actually. you can run as many native apps as you want at the same time, you just cant run multiple third party apps at the same time. HOWEVER, lets say i am running a third party app (app1) then lets say i launch a second third party app (app2) app1's state will be saved and placed in the background on "pause" if you will, while app2 runs. if i relaunch app1 its last known state will be restored and app2 will go into pause.
I know this post is coming out a little prematurely, but I couldn't help but notice that the Samsung Focus and the Samsung Captivate are identical phones... not only are they identical but they are running on the same network (modem drivers and such would be the same) ... does anyone know if this port would be possible?
They are not identical phones. Samsung's WP7 devices (the Focus and Omnia7) use Qualcomm's Snapdragon 1GHz processor. The Galaxy S series uses Samsungs 1GHz Hummingbird processor. I'm guessing we would need WP7 drivers before we could port anything. But even with that, I bet there are other hardware differences.
Why is everyone so hyped about WP7? Doesnt anyone remember how lame windows mobile was? Everytime I see someone post about WP7 its like its going to revolutionize smartphones. Theres not much they can do that already isnt being done. WP7....so lame. And it looks like ATT is trying to jump on that ship first and offer a big selection of handsets at launch....go figure. At least they got something right and got one of the best android phones available for now. Its not great out of the box but with all the roms and mods on XDA its starting to show some real potential.
Smallsmx3 said:
Why is everyone so hyped about WP7?.
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Have to disagree here. Windows Phone 7 is a completely different beast than WM 6 or 6.5. You can't compare the two. Different UIs, different use cases, different applications and core technologies. Everyone's hyped because it seems Microsoft might have finally done something right when it comes to mobile devices. Every tech journalist I've heard talk about their preview WP7 devices has been very happy. And as someone who picked an Android phone because I wanted a choice in how I use it, the possibility of WP7 running on it just adds one more choice.
Why on earth would you ever want a car that's not colored black?
Sending a rocket ship to the moon is preposterous!
Nobody will ever need or want more than 1 MB of RAM on their computer.
I love it when people shoot down ideas without thinking it through to all possible conclusions beyond their own.
I wouldn't mind seeing WP7 getting ported some day. Choices are good.
multi-boot Android, WP7, and IOS4.... Sound kind of cool to me.
hashish16 said:
multi-boot Android, WP7, and IOS4.... Sound kind of cool to me.
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Just add a good DOS emulator (I know DOSBox was being ported some day) in that list and I'll be totally excited.
Windows (and the Windows/Microsoft mentality, design-philosophy and school-of-thought) belong on cell phones even less than it belongs on desktop PCs.
For the love of all that is sane and proper, let cell phones be the clean slate which allow us to break free from Microsoft inertia and influence. Let the handful of remaining Microsoft fanboys fondle their WP7 phones and Zunes while the rest of us move forward.
And linux, unix, posix apps belongs on them even less. Oh, wait...
Stop trying to start Fanboy discussions and OS flame wars. Do you run your phone completely in Terminal? Do you expect a WP7 device to have a start button on the screen? Get viruses? Blue Screen?
Each platform has merits and competition is a good thing in almost every case. Choice on a device designed for one platform being able to run another offers bragging rights for the developers and gives more power back to the community.
I'm for the phone that gives me what I want it to do and the freedom to do it.
IOS = locked into the iWorld of iTunes, extreme DRM, and I can only use the device.
Android = the freedom I wanted at a price. Custom flashing ROMS to even get my device to work as intended. But I can do whatever I want with it and don't have to worry about DRM.
WP7 = locked into the M$ world. Again I think it will be highly restrictive on what you can do. I'm sure there will be people (here on XDA) that will hack it.. but it will still be Windows for your phone - and therefore limited.
I'll stick with my single boot Android device - Although it would have that "nerdy cool factor" to have multiple OS's to boot my phone into... I'd rather have one working OS than 2 or 3 that were buggy as hell.
This has been gone over to death, Will it happen?.....Maybe. Will it be soon I dought it. I left WM for Android due to seeing the road M$ was going down with WP7. I have yet to lay Judgment on WP7 till I can get some hands on time with it but to tell the truth I dont see it being an option for me personally as I hot swap SD cards all time due to diff projects, Class, Work, Music...ect. The inability to do so with WP7 is just a deal breaker for me, not to mention no ETA on copy and past. I see WP7 as an early version of IOS, locked in to many ways while they try to get base functions to work right.
Nobody will ever need or want more than 1 MB of RAM on their computer.
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LOL...once upon a time I had a computer with a 2 gig HDD...I told a friend of mine "There's no way I'll EVER fill this up!!"
sremick said:
Windows (and the Windows/Microsoft mentality, design-philosophy and school-of-thought) belong on cell phones even less than it belongs on desktop PCs.
For the love of all that is sane and proper, let cell phones be the clean slate which allow us to break free from Microsoft inertia and influence. Let the handful of remaining Microsoft fanboys fondle their WP7 phones and Zunes while the rest of us move forward.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft being the maker of WP7 has almost nothing to do with Microsoft Windows. How much of Mac OS do you see in the iPhone? Just because someone doesn't like Mac does not mean they will hate the iPhone.
I was thinking this too...
Hardware agnostic smartphones... I wrote about it over at my blog TheProfessorNotes
Excerpt: Since the start of the smartphone experience, the hardware and the operating system have been so tightly integrated that one is hard to distinguish from the other. This started as far back as the Springboard Sprint phone hardware attachment for the Handspring Visor, and continues today with the Windows 7 phones, the iPhone and in reality the Android phone. But what if the phones (hardware) and the soul of the phones, the mobile OS’s, could be separated?
emuneee said:
They are not identical phones. Samsung's WP7 devices (the Focus and Omnia7) use Qualcomm's Snapdragon 1GHz processor. The Galaxy S series uses Samsungs 1GHz Hummingbird processor. I'm guessing we would need WP7 drivers before we could port anything. But even with that, I bet there are other hardware differences.
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Click to collapse
Did they prove that the Focus has a snapdragon? I knew the Omina7 did, but the last spec sheet i saw said the Focus was unknown. It would still be a pretty darn close match with the graphics being the only potential problem....
Everyone keeps bashing on Microsoft but I see no problem with them? I'm currently on Windows 7 and I can customize the daylights out of it. So, is there really a problem?
Besides, Windows 7 is going to be a serious gaming platform, as this is Microsoft's entry into the mobile gaming world. So...the most powerful phone out...with a gaming OS...sounds like a major win to me!
I'm just a little shocked to hear some people that use Android, meant to enable freedom to the user, say that our Android phones shouldn't be allowed to run other software that's not Android.
That simply baffles the mind.
"I don't like Microsoft, therefore nobody else should be able to run Microsoft products on their Android phones even though it will in no way affect the usage of my own phone."
*sigh*
sschrupp said:
I'm just a little shocked to hear some people that use Android, meant to enable freedom to the user, say that our Android phones shouldn't be allowed to run other software that's not Android.
That simply baffles the mind.
"I don't like Microsoft, therefore nobody else should be able to run Microsoft products on their Android phones even though it will in no way affect the usage of my own phone."
*sigh*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll drink to that
The hardest part would be getting the hummingbird processor to work with the windows 7 platform. I wouldn't mind a dual boot phone though. Android/wm7/ios.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
WP7 OS requires a hardware PVK chip on-board in-order to function at all. That will be the hardest part. Even the ppl hacking HTC HD2 can only get it to operate in DEMO only mode because of the lacking of that chip.
At the lower levels, WP7 and Windows Mobile phones seem to be more hackable than Android phones. There are no hardware based signature checks. I've even seen custom radios, which I thought were always locked down. So, is WP7 hardware as open as I think?
Master Melab said:
At the lower levels, WP7 and Windows Mobile phones seem to be more hackable than Android phones. There are no hardware based signature checks. I've even seen custom radios, which I thought were always locked down. So, is WP7 hardware as open as I think?
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Click to collapse
In a whole, I'd have to say no. Mango added a block to INTEROPSERVICES. We'll probably figure a way around this, but MS took the iOS method with WP7 in locking down the OS & they are a lot better at it than Apple.
I'm not familiar with Android's Bootloader/Radio Flashing abilities though to compared that. The only devices that have HSPL/RSPL in WP7 atm are HTC's. There is someone collecting funds for DFT team though to get them a few Samsung devices so they can start work on those devices.
Of course they're better at it than Apple. Apple's security in iOS is terrible (when hooked up to a computer).
I just read this article, a good eye opener for those craving for ICS
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394929,00.asp
Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right. Compared to the grinding misery of the Android non-update schedule, Microsoft's transition from Windows Phone 7 to Mango is going pretty smoothly.
Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different OEMs and get its software approved by carriers. Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different form factors—phones with physical keyboards and without, for instance.
Yes, Apple gets it right too, but that's a little boring; Apple has only one OEM (itself) and a handful of models, so it's much easier to push out updates to iPhones and iPads.
Earlier this year, Google and its OEMs formed a consortium to pledge to deliver prompt updates, but absolutely zero concrete work has come out of that group. Every single U.S. Windows Phone will update to Mango within weeks. Two-year-old iPhones can get iOS 5. But owners of Android phones and tablets just a few months old have no clue when, or whether their gadgets will get Ice Cream Sandwich (or for that matter, sometimes still even Gingerbread.)
Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset, and doesn't allow manufacturers to skin the OS. I don't want to see Google take on the first requirement, as competition between chip manufacturers has been a major force driving Android's advances. But even if one chipset at a time got Android updates, it would still be a major step forward.
If manufacturer skins are really stopping updates, it may finally be time for Google to find a way to punish OEMs that can't keep up with the pace of change. Google likes to trumpet its openy-ness, but the company has always blessed and punished OEMs by giving or withholding the Android Market and Gmail apps that are necessary to have a decent Android device. Google needs to set a time limit for OEMs to implement changes.
Ice Cream Sandwich looks great. So when can we get it, how can we find apps for it, and how can app developers address the widest variety of Android devices easily? That's what Google needs to answer clearly and concisely.
and it made me think alot.
I'm an android fan, but i feel this author's opinion is quite true.
whats the point of having a good and new OS but its just available on a over priced nexus phone?
android updates are slow (i mean around 6 months or probably never). and silly manufacturers are further delaying it by their custom UI. This is just sad sad news for android.
i better stop reading news about ICS, just to make myself less miserable.
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
I agree, that's probably the biggest stumbling block of Android. When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
One thing though, Microsoft controls the hardware specs of WP7 phones very closely. Sure there's differences here and there, but not as far reaching as a Galaxy 3 vs a Galaxy S2.
Well, heres my opinion about this subject:
No, it will not make things worst, i have been using android since donut with an HTC Magic, from which i had tried 2.1 and 2.2. Never resourcing from HTC's official releases.
I'll put it simple, for someone who needs a smartphone, almost every verion of android will do, you get to manage emails on the go, music, photos, market+apps, you get the point.
Now for someone that takes "what version of android i'm running" into consideration, there are solutions to run the latest. Me for example, i do take it into consideration, and i'm running 2.3.5 on a LG2X which only has 2.2 officially.
If this was real reality, what about X86 OS's? i mean, win3.1, win95, win98, win98ME, win2K, winXP, winVISTA, win7 and now win8... And im only talking about microsoft.
Theres no such thing has fragmentation. As for the development problems regarding which target android version will "I" develop to. Cmon, theres good coding or bad coding. OFC theres some API's that are only available since version X of the android version, but still, good coding would prevent the use of this API even if it means having less functionality.
I believe android is in the right track, ICS looks to have some nice improvements, although the main development i saw was design ("Make me awesome"), i believe there has been some improvements regarding stability+smoothness+usability.
Next stop is: "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right." Wait a second, google has made the most successful mobile OS and it needs to look to Microsoft for *whatever*?
"Yes, Apple gets it right too" No! if in Sascha's opinion Fragmentation is a problem, Apple is having the same issue, but it is coming later than android, mainly due to the 23454345672384 OEM's android has versus the 1 OEM Apple has! I mean, 1 oem, 1 OS = iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPod Touch Xgen, iPad, iPad 2.. FFS! fragmentation? a single oem has made more devices than most android OEM's has! (not true, but quite)
[EDIT] Sorry im berserking.
"Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset" if this was done in the Android habitat, there would be no sense in making different versions, varying prices, and so on. Fragmentation is good in some aspects, one of them being the different prices devices can get.
As for the version and updates problem, how about attacking the OEM's itself instead of Google? Since google is the main "victim" of this article, google has made all it can do to get it "corrected" (if this is a problem) and it even does not own the OEM's companies! All phones launched by google have had some nice updates, keeping it with the most recent OS all the time. (Yes i'm talking about the nexus lineup, Nexus One is 2 years old, so i guess it will not get ICS, still iphone 2G will not get iOS 5 neither.)
[EDIT2] Now i'm haywire.
Just take a look at the article comments, the writer ends up having no arguments. FFS He's calling WP7 an example for updates! saying that the OS provider has the obligation the get OEM's in line...NO! thats the good thing about Android, it is free, free to use, and free to transform. Every OEM is responsible for what they do with the devices they sell, and the OS they ship it with.
Thats like saying that my Dinossaur pc doesn't run windows 7 and call it Microsoft's fault, because my PC only have 96MB of Ram! Isn't that almost Apple-fanboy talk? The os provider must develop the HW for it to run properly.
Logi_Ca1 said:
When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
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Click to collapse
That is true, except for one thing. There is a response.
If you want iOS, you have the choice of black or white. If you want Android then you have the choice of hundreds of different devices. It's a trade-off that I am more than happy with. I prefer choice over regular updates, especially when the OS is already good enough anyway.
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
drelite08 said:
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs. Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
Sorry but there's no apple fanboy like Joshua Toposlky, he is the only one in the world (sarcasm =P) that can see the bright side of both sides of the war.
Archer said:
I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs.
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Thats why i did say that for a smartphone user, every android version will sufice.
Archer said:
Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
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This is almost not noticeable in the android environment because of the OEM's, not google's fault
[EDIT] OMFG! Now this is stupid, this is SO STUPID! Check this out, he makes a table of the new features that the new iOS can do, an compares it to other OS's... so lets start:
Location Based Reminders: Only iOS
Quick Camera Acess: iOS and WP7
Advanced Photo Editing tools: Only iOS
Advanced Voice Commands: Only iOS
My answer to this is: I am not going to open another URL coming from PCmag
The way Android works is that Google do not have that much control over it after the OS is designed, it gets open-sourced then it is down to each individual OEM to build a rom and get their carrier partners to approve it.
Google have deliberately chosen to not do it the more formal way as it will defeat the entire original purpose that android had.
Obviously there is more complicated steps in the process when it comes to the licencing of Gapps....
However google and the other major partners have expressed their wish to reduce fragmentation and move to ICS as soon as possible, but that article was right in that we have not been given any strict words. However any phone currently running android 2.3 and is still getting worked on (i.e. not EOL) should receive an ICS update. I know that samsung are working on very quick timetables and the SGS2 rom should be out very quickly, but based on the past experience companies like HTC may take a very long time.
in WP7 Microsoft give a rom to the OEMS to do very minor tweaks, this is then approved and released.
I think what people are missing
Here guys is the fact that android os is the only open source os out of three three majors!
This means that u don't really need the oems to have latest up to date os version. As we can c clearly in the case of cynogenmod project. Moreover, the android build it's reputation on being the most comprehensive os with most capabilities to consume the most of the hardware. This is a big plus for everybody.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Ray1 said:
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
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I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
svceon said:
I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
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I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
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Ray1, i'm not upset, don't get me wrong =P i just thought you were saying that you wanted ICS now, and that you were frustraded that you didn't had. i'm only upset by PCMAG by it's acumulated stupidity.
As for the updates, there are a lot of 2.3.4/5 roms in the SGSII development sub-forum, why dont you try to flash one?
Another thing about firmware and OEM's updates:
When i buy a car, i dont expect it to be upgraded when the next generation of engines are released. When i buy a car i bought it because i needed it or i wanted it as it was being sold.
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
linkin85 said:
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
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This doesn't make a lot of sense
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
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There is no Google talk video call in 2.3.4 nor 2.3.5..
the fact that the author wrote "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right" made him lose any ounce of credibility that he had (if he had any to begin with.)
they released WP 7 without half of the proven needs on a smartphone (eg. cut and paste), released an "update" which was basically a primer for your phone to be able to OTA update when the new "patch" was released. and it didn't even adress the issues that had people *****ing about the phone. Mango was promised to be released last year, and it's already october 2011. I got rid of my windows phone within 3 months of buying on.
so what if apple releases iOS 5 to all iphone users? half of them probably doesn't even know what's on the new OS. the other half are still marvelling over siri as some technological breakthrough. it has got to be the most boring OS i've seen. everyone holding an iOS phone/tablet/ipod looks the same as the other person holding it. oh great, you can change the wallpaper...whoopdiedoo...and buy a 200 dollar case for it! wowie.
i was a loyal windows mobile user for many many years, having used them since O2 still manufactured awesome products. I loved it for how much I could customize it to suit how I'd like it to be. I'm not paying 1000 bucks and have the company tell me how I should want it to look. I'm sorry, but a homescreen with 16 icons on it just doesn't look appealing to me. I have been blown away by what the android OS can do.
how ICS release can be bad for android users baffles me. I bet the author was wetting himself when apple launched the white iphone.
This ''issue'' can be avoided by installing CM7. This way your phone is like a nexus and has the latest updates.
Umm this isn't really google's fault by any means; whether or not ICS comes to our devices is up to the manufacturers, and it's is up to us as consumers to let them know that we don't want a customized UI, but standard android instead.
Vote with your wallets and send manufacturers complaint letters and you shall have what you wish for. Just look at the locked boot loaders issue as an example of what can be done when enough people complain and commit to a cause.
1) don't rely on Official Roms all the time, plenty of leaks for 2.3.4 and 2.3.5 have surfaced
2) Just because you are not yet on 2.3.4 doesn't mean you won't get ICS, you don't have to go up every single OS step in order...
Again Android liberty. You can pick the OEM. If you want the fastest update buy a nexus. Slower OEMs will sell lesser product in the future. And I didn't get the idea of the article. Is limiting the OSs with resolution and chips a good thing? If so what are we doing here?
Sent from my GT-I9100
Say that android was never released (or discontinued after initial release as a failure)
What do you think would be
(*) Outcome of the mobile world?
(*) what phone you'd be using?
I think, if Android ceased to exist, ill still be on old Windows Mobile.
Microsoft wouldnt have felt to need to update to WP7 as they had no need to compete with anyone apart from apple.
So as a result WP7 ceases to exist
I think apple would not have introduced multitasking or the fancy new features in their iPhones. They have no one to compete with
I don't think dual core would be high end (1ghz would be high end even in 2012, and would be ground breaking news)
I don't think apple will have released an ipad. They wouldnt need to compete.
I think I would still be using a WM phone if android didn't exist, and have no tablet...
HTC would still be a unknown company that no one has heard of, and they produce phones for carriers
XDA site wont be as popular or well known as now.
The mobile world would still be a few steps behind
More to come ..
List what you think!
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Sent from my HTC Desire S
PalmOS will still be dominating the market strong
Apple will have gone bankrupt, as Microsoft couldn't afford to buy out Apple's doomed stock, due Microsoft own low sales of Windows CE v10.1
PalmOS would have been v15.6 by now with new improved GUI and Eye pupil control to select & run Apps from the phone, with voice dictation a voice command perfected even for people with heavy accent
while still keeping the good old fashioned pen, for those that likes to hand write on the screen as before
PalmOS has become open source, and old Apps are still backward compatible with the latest PalmOS
making the life of Doctors and tons of other professional easier without having to wait for new Apps releases to work on the new OS
Without Android I think Apple would be very dominant in the cell phone market.
I don't think there would be many (or nearly as many) lawsuits being thrown around b/c Apple wouldn't feel threatened.
I don't think the iPhone would really be changed as much though. Apple has a very strong almost cult following that will shell out the money every year for a new device so I don't think they really need to succumb to the trends of the market. If anything I agree they wouldn't have multitasking and probably no dual core processor.
Sadly I'd probably own an iPhone
What would happen if no one ever created bread?!
ihellion said:
What would happen if no one ever created bread?!
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I can haz no sammiches?
ihellion said:
What would happen if no one ever created bread?!
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Plenty of cultures don't make use of bread.
If there was no Android, I'd probably be using an iPhone.
Etrick said:
I can haz no sammiches?
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No PB&J, the humanities!
bleach168 said:
Plenty of cultures don't make use of bread.
If there was no Android, I'd probably be using an iPhone.
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Plenty of cultures don't have power, I think we'd be OK, and people would have innovated another type of smart phone OS. I think a better question is "What has Android done to change the market, and maybe the world?"
Windows Phone would be around but be different in Name/Look... iOS wouldn't be as rushed to add MMS and so on.. SO it would look the same (surprise surprise) but with some missing features. Windows Mobile OS would probably continue the look of 6.5 with overall changes to compete with iOS...
Overall Android caused a lot of thinking for both Apple and Microsoft ... If only we can see into a world like that... Now im curious